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Author Topic: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP  (Read 20027 times)

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Le Chuck

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Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« on: August 03, 2014, 08:44:24 pm »
This forum is great because it is built on those ideas that just won't go away.  Those infatuations and flights of fancy that after some elbow grease and too much time and money finally, usually, become reality.  Man oh man, I got hit with a flight of fancy about a year ago and it just hasn't let go. 

Enough waxing poetic. 

Along with the help of IDS and EDS1275 I'm building an Ice Cold Beer homage I'm calling, "Space Base".  We've been working on it off and on for over a year, in near secrecy.  To be honest we thought we'd be done by now but life, thousands of collective miles between all of us, project hurdles to be overcome, and everything else tends to slow things down.  We aren't done, but a lot of the hard work is done and we'll be moving forward on this.  It is time to get it out into the light, get some feedback, and make this a true community project.  In the beginning I had ideations of selling this as a kit but now I'll just be happy to get a complete parts list, art download, cut plans, and program/music downloads out into the community so anybody can make their own. 

First off and most importantly:  The starting crew <cue boats-n-hoes montage>.

Chuckles - fabrication, basic mechanics, art (big thanks to Jake Nealis for the Space Gal art)
IDS - electronics, software and hardware
eds1275 - music, sound effects, voice acting (big thanks to his actress)
possibly you! - we're looking for good ideas, feedback, and whatever else

So how far are we?  Well, if I had to put a number on it I'd say we're at about 42.  Art is going good, music and sound effects are going great, software and hardware are going good, cab construction will be underway soon once I finalize a few things on the inner workings of the playfield.  The basics behind operation:  Mag switches in target holes and the return hole provide feedback on ball location.  Servos run the pulley system.  A small processing unit runs the LEDs, sounds, and monitors everything against game logic that we distilled from ICB.  But let's be honest, you're here to see stuff.  On to the pics!!!

 
This is the bezel, all art is done in a mix of solid and half tones for all foreground images and the background starfield is still a wip.  Well everything is a wip but this seems to be working out pretty well.


Now with the PF, note that there will be an inch gap to allow the bar movement between the two planes.  Why yes, space gal is a different color, which do you prefer?


CPO, which will be a wrap around. 


This is like PF v.II I think but it's starting to get there


Closer in all the ball return mech

http://vid479.photobucket.com/albums/rr155/vonjett/Space%20Base/MagSwitchTest_zps0e87d90c.mp4
Video showing the mag switches in action.


Mag switch activated


Mag switch proximity test.  Mag switches allow us to forego a complicated ball return system of chutes and just use in-hole monitoring.  More on all that later. 

I'll let eds1275 and IDS jump in when they're ready with info on their parts of the build but I'll tell you, the music and sfx are out of this world and IDS has come up with some great game modes and is doing remarkable things with segment displays and LEDs.  It's all pretty much amazeballs.  It's not going fast, but it's going.  Whatchya thing?

wp34

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 09:54:12 pm »
Just when you think you have seen it all.  What an original idea.  I love that this is a team effort as well.     :cheers:

thatpurplestuff

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2014, 10:36:46 pm »
Holy crap that is incredible!  Ever since I saw Ice Cold Beer years ago I've wondered if it would even be possible to build one at home.  I love the idea, I love the art, I just love it!

Would love it even more if you guys released info on how others can build one after you're done!

So once again, we find that evil of the past seeps into the present like salad dressing through cheap wax paper, mixing memory and desire.

yotsuya

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 11:45:19 pm »
Finally announced it, huh? Kudos!  :cheers:
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

ids

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 12:59:24 am »
Finally announced it, huh? Kudos!  :cheers:

I suspect it may have been announced earlier if not for my slacking on the software side.  It was not for a lack of trying, however, I just got buried in the paying type of work, which has forced my to slow down on a number of priority projects such as this  :(.  This is also some challenging stuff; mapping a VERY large number of I/O pins onto a microcontroller, serious sound requirements, hi-score table, certain degree of configurability, whilst keeping costs reasonable, etc.   I'll post more info about my contributions when there is something post-worthy (code does not make for great pics)

I've got to say though, thx Le Chuck, cuz this is a really cool project and I'm thrilled to be a part in it.  And it seems we have the answer to life, the universe, and everything if:
we're at about 42

BobA

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2014, 03:02:41 am »
Great to see a brand new type of project.  Looks like alot of hard work and more to go.  Congrats on your inovation.  :cheers: :cheers:

Le Chuck

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2014, 08:25:44 am »
Would love it even more if you guys released info on how others can build one after you're done!

Well that's kind of the idea lol.  To that end I do need one more contributor who is willing to do toolpaths for everything based on the final design, either that or everyone will have to put up with my horribly not to scale drawings and odd liner notes to get their own (Rick, Haru, you CNC guys, I'm looking at you). Once complete first post will be updated with all links, parts lists, and everything else you need to roll yer own.

I know IDS has been looking at custom board production being an option as well for the display and to manage the ever growing rats nest of wires this bad boy is turning out to be.

We kind of embrassed a degree of feature creep early on because if you're taking the time to a project like this it makes sense to do some updates while you're building from scratch.  Multicolored LEDs, alphanumeric displays, high quality audio, stuff like that has created a lot for IDS to work through all while trying to find a solution that can be replicated by the midranged to advanced BYOAC'r with a parts list AND keep costs reasonable.  To say it isn't easy is an understatement. 

@BobA, Yot, WP34 - Thanks guys, we'll keep plugging away and hopefully open up a new area to be explored. 

Attached at the base of this post is the current google doc we've been working on together.  There's a bit of inside baseball with some of it but it'll give those who want to follow along closely a road map for where we're going with game play and features.  IDS in red and I'm in blue for liner notes. 


Generic Eric

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 10:12:05 am »
That is cool.

Is it the same hole pattern as Ice Cold Beer?  Or would you rather not say?

Super awesome!  Can't wait for a parts list.  As far as CNC'ing, this main backboard should be the only thing we need? 

Looking forward to a parts and price list.  Good show!

Le Chuck

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 10:38:24 am »
That is cool.

Is it the same hole pattern as Ice Cold Beer?  Or would you rather not say?

Super awesome!  Can't wait for a parts list.  As far as CNC'ing, this main backboard should be the only thing we need? 

Looking forward to a parts and price list.  Good show!

I don't think it's a perfect hole for hole copy but yes, it's based on the ICB pattern and is a pretty close match.  Not really worried about that similiarity tho since everything else is such a departure.  I varied the hole sizes as I think some models did - so that way not all out holes are just gapingly huge. 

The playfield I would like CNC'd because there is a lot of wire routing that needs to be done and once I do the final I'll probably never want to do another one again haha.  Ideally the whole build will get the cut plan treatement just to make things nice.  At a minimum tho I definetly will get the playfield and ball return box done.  From there you could stick the unit in about anything you want and still get a functional unit.   

Generic Eric

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2014, 11:54:08 am »
This looks cool, I'm excited for you guys.  Next up: Peggle!  Or how about pachinko?


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 12:08:45 pm »
I'm not real fond of the cheesecake aspect to the artwork and I think it detracts from the overall appeal, but to each his own.  Are you planning on having the playfield screened or doing decals?

Mag switches are a neat idea.

Generic Eric

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 12:38:53 pm »
I could do without the space lady.  Not that I'm a prude, but I don't want to explain space boobs to my 8 and 9 year old daughters.   I'm sure that could be edited out of the graphics file.

Le Chuck

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 01:19:23 pm »
1) It's not like she's topless
B) Sure, I'll do a version without the space gal - no worries there.  If anybody has any cool space ship art that they drew or have rights to AND it goes with the theme I can see about adding it to give some variety. 

For those who like Space Gal, I'll be doing a side art panel as well with her as a center piece.  To note:  yes she is just some fun retro styled eye candy but she also fits into the back story of the game to wit; the pilot is trying to reach her and it is her voice that is guiding the pilot on his journey through the worm holes.  You see, her space station is running out of oxygen and you have to get them resupplied or she'll die. 

Once eds1275 pops up on here and uploads some of this awesome sounds it'll perhaps tie it together more thematically for everyone.  Or not.  Dunno.  Either way I'll do a gal-less version for the homebrewers who aren't feeling her. 

As to the surface treatment, PBJ, I'm planning right now on vinyl but I'll be having it all done through a local sign shop that I deal with (they do all of University of Auburn's commercial work) and they'll hopefully have some robust solutions for me.  If they can do a print and it won't cost me a boat payment I'll do that - but not for the prototype.  The prototype will be lucky to get a laminated graphic from kinkos.  ;)

If anybody has any other ideas for the art or other design elements keep'em coming.  I think the art is a good start but I know there is room for improvement. 

eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 02:23:36 pm »
I'm not saying anything.

j/k. Yeah we had a lot of ideas for the audio, from incoming radio transmissions to the captain of the ship talking to the player but in the end it was the female computer voice that we ended up on. She has a sultry way of saying things. The voice actor's name is Jennifer, and she is part of the local film group I am an administrator of. She helps out on a lot of my projects both audio only and film. Unfortunately next month she is moving to the southern part of the island we live on which is about 2 hours away.

For the music I was out of my comfort zone. Usually I do more rock, funk, bluesy stuff but the main track came together really fast. Like 2 days or something and then I ended up just cutting the ending off (it actually at one point had an ending) so that it loops seamlessly. I am really proud of the main gameplay tune. Unfortunately, writing the other stuff has been much more difficult because I am trying to match the quality and make it fit together. I am not 100% satisfied with the stuff I have, but I do have an attract mode sort of spacey noise. We had some serious restrictions on audio that have been ironed out, so at least it isn't low bit and sample rate. Writing the music and then chopping the quality down was really sad for me. I don't have anything with me to upload but I will slap together a compressed audio file and post it for anyone who wants to hear when I return home.

For those that care, I'm using pro tools 11, a roland ready strat with GK-3 midi pickup, a roland midi controller keyboard, and mostly samples from my software and soft synths. I programmed some more complicated drums but the basic beats really just fit better.

yotsuya

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2014, 02:55:01 pm »
I think the "cheesecake" factor fits in perfectly (seen the sideart on Ice Cold Beer?). Good work!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2014, 03:11:06 pm »
I think the woman art is tasteful and non-offensive, and the holes fit in with a holey-asteroid look.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2014, 04:17:14 pm »
So, that's a cool idea with the timer and trying to save the suffocating astronaut and all that, and it sounds like the voice calls will reflect things like that rather than, "don't get your balls in the wrong hole" and that kind of nonsense.  All a good thing.

But does the depiction of the sexy space woman really fit?

I think it'd be more along the lines of this:


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2014, 04:21:08 pm »
:droid:

I was preparing for a space nuns in space them. But since you offered an edit without the space lady, I don't have to do any work ( 8)  like I was anyway ;) )

I am super excited to see a video with the different modes to it.  Seems like you guys went the extra mile.  From what I saw on youtube ICB was limitied.

I think the art is fine.  With the history of the site, I don't know why you didn't go for Ond's Raygun, that would have been a nice easter egg.

Again, :I don't want to want to explain space boobs to my daughters: 
Whilst its not the problem of anyone here, I politely registered my opinion and an option was made.  Whereas if I had been an ass about it, I would have probably been told to I could do without.
 
Louis CK bit about talking to your own kids **language warning***Its your kid

Le Chuck

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2014, 06:21:22 pm »
Taking Space Gal out is a single button click as shes a smart object in the photoshop file (which is close to a gig in size as is) and requires no additional editing so it's not like it's an effort for me to do that.  If it was I'd just politely ask those that don't like her to take a long walk off a short space port ;)

Seriously tho, I like her and I like the vibe she adds but understand that others might not.  While I'm more than willing to post up a final set without her much more importantly I would hope that once this is done those that are building their own would feel free to do their own themes, a little art and some downloaded sounds and you'll be good to go.  Sure, it wont be as jaw droppingly awesome as Space Base with its professional sound track and voice overs but it may be.  Besides, I've got a back up theme I've toyed with that is very tongue in cheek risque like PBJ alluded to called "Pitchin' Hay" which is naturally a farmer's daughter theme.  Lots of room for raunch in that one but we will get Space Base all wrapped first. 

@PBJ, I see where you're coming from but I don't think I'll personally go dark with it and stay more on the playful side, but as mentioned, for those that want to follow suit there is room to branch out.  I still think that once you hear the music and the voice cuts that Space Gal will grow on you. 

--break--

I would appreciate some opinions as to color scheme for Space Gal and any of the other graphics.  I think I personnaly prefer the pink but maybe only like 51%.  I had a recommendation to make her a dark skinned woman and redraw the hair - kind of a Lana Kane in college look, but I haven't tried it out yet, a little too much work to make it look right.  I did try out several shades of green for the skin but it didn't feel right. 

Also, the unit itself, my original plan was to make it wall-mount and eliminate all that unneeded cab, or maybe go very thin.  With the way the ball return and switchs and lights work the whole thing will be maybe 4 inches thick from glass to back at its most slimmed down (not counting the CP), but I'm leaning back towards doing a full size cab for two reasons

1) It will look better
2) If I don't do the fullsize I wont have anywhere to stick sideart. 

Thoughts?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2014, 06:44:59 pm »
As far as color goes, I've always been a big fan of the "sexy robot" look.  So I'd go with a silver/chrome look on her suit.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2014, 09:10:12 pm »
Never thought ICB/ZP were that interesting, and I know now the theme had something to do with that. This looks great! Can't wait to hear the audio!
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

Working on: Pinball Re-theme, Homebrew arcade arena shooter

ids

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 10:13:08 pm »
imho, art and audio are great, and i'm glad we came up with a solution that allows for no loss in quality of the audio.

for those interested in the guts:
  • Main logic running on a Freescale KL25Z, using mbed platform
  • Audio being handled by the cheapest solution available - a small cheap external board (a raspberry-pi)
  • Freescale and rpi connected via usb, and use a usb-serial setup to chat to each other
  • Display is a set of 16-segment displays, a row of 5, over a row of similar but with 2nd removed (so, 1 unit, blank, 3 units) - as per artwork above, top-right.  These are multiplexed - cycled in columns; one column is powered at a time, the KL25z sets the segments to display and cycles which column to be powered at a high frequency.  A series of 4 shift registers hold the state of the segments.
  • 10 RGB LED's hide behind each hole that can be used for scoring.  The KL25z simulates PWM by cycling the on-off state as needed.  These are multiplexed as well, to keep pin count down.
  • 10 switches - one for each score hole, tied to a 10/4 priority encoder to reduce pin count
  • Limit switches used to control the extent to which the bar can move - four switches tied to interrups for immediate response
  • Dip switches to control a few configurable items.
  • More config available via a config file stored on the SD card in the r-pi
  • High scores maintained on SD card
  • Servo motors for the bar tied to PWM units on the KL25z
  • "Tilt" sensed by KL25z built in accelerometer
  • High-score input will be like robotron.  Left stick selects letter, right stick accepts
  • etc

This thing requires a lot of I/O pins and is the most complicated microcontroller thing I've done to date to date.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 11:23:03 pm »

I think the art is fine.  With the history of the site, I don't know why you didn't go for Ond's Raygun, that would have been a nice easter egg.




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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 11:28:34 pm »
:droid:

Again, :I don't want to want to explain space boobs to my daughters:

The puberty years are going to be Hell for you, bro...
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 11:36:39 pm »
:droid:

Again, :I don't want to want to explain space boobs to my daughters:

The puberty years are going to be Hell for you, bro...

+1  For great justice!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2014, 03:14:35 am »
Huge Props for the recreation.  Im quite interested in the magnetic sensors for sure.  Does the ball have to be magnetic for them to activate?
Cool stuff.

 Ive always liked the Elvira style themed fun/funny/sexy vocals...  but for those with younger kids, I can see it being an issue.  Still, not a fan of the girl art clip.  It doesnt match in the color scheme.   Very out-of-place.  Super saturated .. against dark, desaturated, plain, and somewhat boring backdrop.  Its well drawn.. and I like the half-tone work a lot... but its kind of lifeless in totality.    And while we all know that most of space IS Lifeless... thats never what the focus is when we are thinking about space.. or watching some movie about space.   We are thinking Aliens, Space Craft, Hi Tech, LaZ3r FiR3!  (and woman of course!)   Time Travel,   Black Holes,  Warp Gates,  Wormholes,  and some amazing Captain and Heroic battles...    Not merely docking your balls...err I mean, ship..

   Take a look at Asteroids Deluxe artwork.   Blacklight lit, a lot of zest and interesting things happening:



 ICB is a tough one for art, due to all of the holes.  It limits the possible range considerably..  as well as changes the impact of the art, if not done well in accordance with them.


 Long ago, Id came up with some seriously sick ideas for a game based on ICB..  as at that time,  I was actually considering modifying the original machine.   However, I just restored it, and sold it for a hefty sum.. to get a more closer in funds, to a much more desirable pinball machine...

 It goes well beyond your current cost & output parameters...   Still, Id love to get some made, and pop them on-location...


 Just something to note about Audio...  Have you thought about using an actual digital FM synth engine, such as the DX-7  ?   As the musical complexity and compositions you could create... would take almost no memory up.   And due to the nature of good FM Synth sound.. its pretty much timeless.   I find that FM synths like the Yamaha Dx7,  Yamaha DX7 IID... etc..   have sounds that are so vivid and clear...  that they are almost astounding.   Unlike a low quality sample rip...  which can get grating, sterile...  and sound like poop compared to a good FM Synth.    I think the magic is in the math.  Its like the sound is a mirror of life.  Theres a sort of infinite "Fractal" method of how it works, and how it sounds...  and its somewhat cosmic.  Alive. Perfect.

 Whats great is that with emulation, and or other similar methods... you can use such a synth... and even add other synths to the mix, and even create enhanced capabilities that were never possible.

 Most all the older games used Synths.   Marble Madness uses a Yamaha chip thats very close to the DX-7 if memory serves me correctly.   And as we all know.. that game has some incredible sound effects, and movie-style theme backing.   Thunderforce II has some incredible Synth work.  And check out "Target Earth"  for Sega Genesis...  A much lower quality synth, but wow.. what awesome composition and sound...


 A combination of some samples (or cd / mp3)  + synth, would probably be best.  Allowing for clear vocals... yet amazing high def synth sounds... that take up almost no space.. despite many large and complex compositions.

 Not that Im knocking Eds work.  Havnt heard his stuff yet. I am a big fan of electric guitar btw.   But just that due to the nature of certain themes... and limitations on audio, it can really add an amazing level of Pop, when using good synths.

 
 Now, I have to be real here... in saying that the original ICB was a bit flawed and limited.   Once you got the hang of it..  it wasnt as exciting as you had once thought.   I have some ideas that would probably fix this problem... and while theme does help... its still not enough.


 For anyone whom wants to make one on the cheap... you do not even really need any electronics.  Two hand crank wheels would do the trick... using a string / pulley style system.  (and or rubber belts, or direct gear drive)


 Anyways..  nice work guys.
 :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2014, 07:43:41 am »
X - some of your comments are well taken and will be considered.  I think that the music eds1275 is composing/has composed will be more than sufficient as, again my opinion, it is quite remarkable and vibrant, but I appreciate feedback on other methods of implementation.  The playfield does present challenges in that it is swiss cheese.  I think my art could be improved on but I disagree on the incongruity.  The asteroids in your example are very nice asteroids.  Fluoroscent printing might well lend itself to this theme but is beyond my resources and inclination. 

I think your bringing up the fact that you had a great marketable idea for ICB conversion a long time ago that was "seriously sick" but not sharing it in a thread that is all about giving ideas to the community presents a poor impression.  Kind of a, "nice project, I was going to do something much cooler but nice try" vibe.  Again later with the "I have some ideas that would fix the problem" but no hint to what those ideas are.  Well thanks man, good to know.  Good for you then I guess.  ;)



 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 09:03:58 am »
While it's good to get some feedback for the sake of new ideas and avoiding mistakes,
IMO the best projects are the ones where a person or small group of people have a vision and faithfully execute it.
Projects that try to please everyone in the peanut gallery end up bleh.

Keep up the good work!

EDIT: I could totally see a Stargate themed version of this.
(the movie and tv series, not the arcade game)

DOUBLE EDIT: I'd also like to add that Eds1275 did an unreal job on my NeoGeo jingles.
They're better than anything SNK themselves would have had done.
I feel bad for not getting that cab done in a timely manner to show them off.  :-[
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 09:11:23 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 10:17:58 am »
At $6+ each for those field switches did you manage to find a cheaper source?

I really wanted to use them for my own but as many as I wanted, it would've blown my entire budget apart.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2014, 10:30:24 am »
At $6+ each for those field switches did you manage to find a cheaper source?

I really wanted to use them for my own but as many as I wanted, it would've blown my entire budget apart.

That was a concern, I think the ones I'm using are $6.38 and I need 12 of them.  I have been searching for months for a less expensive retailer or viable sub.  What found is that the money they saved me in building a reliable working chute system for ball management made the juice worth the squeeze.  Your LED sensor solution is very elegant too and would be good for this application but I'm not familiar with it enough to know if it would work in the same manner.  I don't need one for every outhole, just score holes.  I just need one at the gate to shift states.  If a score hole wasn't tripped first then the software knows it was a dead ball. 

Still $70+ is a punch in the gut, especially considering how far IDS is able to stretch the same amount and get pretty much everything else working.   

While it's good to get some feedback for the sake of new ideas and avoiding mistakes,
IMO the best projects are the ones where a person or small group of people have a vision and faithfully execute it.
Projects that try to please everyone in the peanut gallery end up bleh.


Thanks man, we're going to see it through.  I love new ideas but we're not jumping on every band wagon that rolls by. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 11:14:34 am »
Thanks man, we're going to see it through.  I love new ideas but we're not jumping on every band wagon that rolls by.

Good idea, LC. I love a lot of the ideas that get generated here, but I've also seen feature creep submarine many a project as well.  :cheers:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2014, 11:22:02 am »
You can mark me down as someone that thinks the artwork looks fantastic as-is... with a little matching color like pink or something on the controls (buttons, joysticks, whatever) it would tie everything together perfectly.  Very excited to watch this one play out!

So once again, we find that evil of the past seeps into the present like salad dressing through cheap wax paper, mixing memory and desire.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2014, 11:27:58 am »
with a little matching color like pink or something on the controls (buttons, joysticks, whatever) it would tie everything together perfectly.
+1

Thanks man, we're going to see it through. 

Thanks for sharing your project! 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2014, 11:31:46 am »
Keep the space babe, it calls back to classic coin-op. Is she gonna be backlit?


Quote from: Le Chuck
I would appreciate some opinions as to color scheme for Space Gal and any of the other graphics.  I think I personnaly prefer the pink but maybe only like 51%.  I had a recommendation to make her a dark skinned woman and redraw the hair - kind of a Lana Kane in college look, but I haven't tried it out yet, a little too much work to make it look right.  I did try out several shades of green for the skin but it didn't feel right. 

Maybe you wanna consider rather than a flat out green alien babe, just a tinge of an unnatural hue, like to make it ambiguous if she is human or not. I would even consider going as far as making your space babe evil. Glowing eyes, cosmic fire behind her.  I am thinking like something along the lines of Elektra.



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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2014, 11:39:12 am »
Eh, scratch my earlier comment about her being evil, I missed the part where saving the gal is kinda part of the plot of the game. She can still be an alien though.  ;)

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2014, 11:50:33 am »
Here are some audio files, sans DX-7, for your listening pleasure.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2014, 12:41:11 pm »
Here are some audio files, sans DX-7, for your listening pleasure.

Well, damn, those sound legit.  Nice work.

 :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2014, 12:55:00 pm »
Wow...those are absolutely incredible sounds!  :applaud:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2014, 01:44:41 pm »
Great sounds, Eds1275.   :applaud:

At $6+ each for those field switches did you manage to find a cheaper source?

I really wanted to use them for my own but as many as I wanted, it would've blown my entire budget apart.

That was a concern, I think the ones I'm using are $6.38 and I need 12 of them.  I have been searching for months for a less expensive retailer or viable sub.  What found is that the money they saved me in building a reliable working chute system for ball management made the juice worth the squeeze.  Your LED sensor solution is very elegant too and would be good for this application but I'm not familiar with it enough to know if it would work in the same manner.  I don't need one for every outhole, just score holes.  I just need one at the gate to shift states.  If a score hole wasn't tripped first then the software knows it was a dead ball. 

Still $70+ is a punch in the gut, especially considering how far IDS is able to stretch the same amount and get pretty much everything else working.   

Thatpurplestuff's Skeeball build has me thinking about beam break circuits like this:



You should be able to wire 4 parallel sets of 3 LEDs in series as mentioned here to get the needed 12 sensors.

(Water-wheel = LED, you'll only need a small current-limiting resistor after the 3rd LED to drop 0.5v)


If you don't want to order the sensors from the company in India (here) that TPS did, Mouser carries the same LED and photodiode that he is using for less than $1.76 per sensor ($21.07 per build, plus the cost of the resistors) since you'd be ordering 10+ of them.

I'm also looking at this LED and photodiode combination that is only $0.53 per sensor ($6.36 per build  :o , plus the cost of the resistors) since you'd be ordering 10+ of them.

Haven't ordered any of these LED/photodiode combos yet so I'm not sure how well they work or the exact resistors to use, but Samej71 mentions the resistor he used in his setup for R2 here and you can easily use an online LED calculator to solve for resistor R1.   ;D

Hopefully this can bring your sensor price per build down to a more manageable level.  :cheers:

The mounting geometry that TPS shows here for his sensor + RGB rings should work for your setup, though you may want to move the RGB LED to the top of the hole for indirect lighting.




Scott
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 01:48:30 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2014, 10:20:13 pm »
PL1 - I'm no electrical guy, so, questions - is it not the case that, in the water wheel scenario, should something go wrong, all LED's tied to the same resistor can go *poof*?  And is this not why it is often recommended to have one resistor per LED?

thx

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2014, 10:45:50 pm »
Here are some audio files, sans DX-7, for your listening pleasure.

Nicely done! Thanks for posting some samples!
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Working on: Pinball Re-theme, Homebrew arcade arena shooter

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2014, 10:03:33 am »
X - some of your comments are well taken and will be considered.  I think that the music eds1275 is composing/has composed will be more than sufficient as, again my opinion, it is quite remarkable and vibrant, but I appreciate feedback on other methods of implementation.  The playfield does present challenges in that it is swiss cheese.  I think my art could be improved on but I disagree on the incongruity.  The asteroids in your example are very nice asteroids.  Fluoroscent printing might well lend itself to this theme but is beyond my resources and inclination. 

I think your bringing up the fact that you had a great marketable idea for ICB conversion a long time ago that was "seriously sick" but not sharing it in a thread that is all about giving ideas to the community presents a poor impression.  Kind of a, "nice project, I was going to do something much cooler but nice try" vibe.  Again later with the "I have some ideas that would fix the problem" but no hint to what those ideas are.  Well thanks man, good to know.  Good for you then I guess.  ;)

  I have little in the way of marketable skills  (bad memory, a bit of a slow learned, and limited cranial capabilities with regards to stuff like math.. ) ,  as well as am now having trouble with physical capabilities  (extreme food allergies = pains and extreme fatigue) ..  so Im banking one one day.. .Possibly,   to have some of these ideas bring in some kind of income.

 If you have the desire to possible expand your projects output potentials... Id love to see what we could do...   Maybe make a full on coin op run..  or at very least, a high end kit / or high-end assembled units..     High end, just meaning.. higher costs for the super-powered kits.

 One thing Id realized, but have not tested / tried yet: 

I believe the small ball size can be an issue with regards to challenge as well as issues in playability.   It only takes a small amount of dust to cause enough friction, to slow and or stop a ball.   With ICB - It was far worse.. because the entire machine had to be taken apart, full back-end ball trails and all.

 Id like to try a Pinball..  and see how much more momentum may effect difficulty for the long term playability and enjoyment.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2014, 10:25:18 am »
is it not the case that, in the water wheel scenario, should something go wrong, all LED's tied to the same resistor can go *poof*?  And is this not why it is often recommended to have one resistor per LED?
 

The big advantages to wiring the LEDs in series like the left half of the water wheel diagram/schematic are the increased efficiency and greater fault tolerance.

To wire the 12 IR LEDs for this project, you can either do 4 of the groups of three LEDs on the left or 12 of the individual LEDs on the right.

Both configurations require current limiting resistors that dissipate the voltage drop as heat
-- Left needs 4 (1 per group of 3 LEDs) that drop 0.5v (4 * 0.5 = 2)
-- Right needs 12 (1 per LED) that drop 3.5v (12 * 3.5 = 42)
-- The right option has to dissipate 21 times the heat that the left option does.

Next consider how much current each configuration uses
-- These LEDs draw 100mA IIRC
-- Left uses 100mA flowing through each of the 4 groups of three LEDs (400mA total)
-- Right uses 100 mA flowing through each of the 12 LEDs (1200mA total)
-- The right draws three times the current that the left option does

That brings us to the question of circuit protection if the current limiting resistor goes bad -- let's assume that it shorts out. (worst case scenario)
-- The LEDs are rated for 1.5v IIRC
-- Left now has 5v applied to 3 LEDs in series. This results in a 1.67v  drop across each LED = 0.17v over rated voltage.
-- Right now has 5v applied to 1 LED = 3.5v over rated voltage
-- The right LED will be VERY bright for 1 or 2 seconds before it definitely burns out, the left LEDs might survive  :dunno

This leads us to the question of what happens if an LED goes bad.
- A burned out LED stops current flow (most likely scenario)
  -- Left would have 3 LEDs go dark (1 burns out like a fuse, protecting the other 2)
  -- Right would have 1 LED go dark = slightly easier troubleshooting (finally a win for the right side configuration  :lol)
- A shorted LED (HIGHLY unlikely, almost certainly caused on the wiring end, not the light end)
  -- Left will burn out the other two LEDs in the group and slightly dim the other groups (less current flowing through them)
  -- Right will slightly dim the other LEDs (less current flowing through them)

The answer to your "one resistor per LED" question depends on the configuration.

If *only* one resistor is used to protect a bunch of LEDs wired in parallel, it will have to be large enough to handle all the current flow and heat dissipation for the whole setup.

When a carbon resistor has too much current flowing through it, the resistor starts to cook itself and break down.

As it breaks down, the resistance decreases, causing more current to flow through it, causing it to break down further . . . . until it becomes a short circuit.

Less resistance = less voltage drop across the resistor.

All the LEDs will be over-voltaged and burned out, probably before the resistor breaks down completely.

For protection puprposes, the three 1.5v LEDs on the left half of the water wheel diagram are effectively a single, much more robust, 4.5v LED.   ;D


Scott
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 11:02:34 am by PL1 »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2014, 09:02:27 pm »
Some more art examples for feedback.  Put together a rough draft sideart, nothing too fancy - just to get a feel for it, and changed some colors around on the playfield along with subduing the background quite a bit.  The quality goes to hell when I get these internet sized.  The full size PNGs are like 100mb each and the PSDs are pushing a gig but the detail on the color is so nice at that full resolution.  It looks all grided out and muddy at this size. 


So Space Gal is a blend of the first two options with more pastel coloring and the asteroids got a color treatment just to see how it would look.  I'm digging the updated Space Gal but not sold on coloroids.  Original posted for comparison so you don't have to flip back and forth. 


And sideart, might try to incorporate one of those classic rolling pinball type images to give it a bit of movement.  Rather than mock up a spaceship I think it would be nice just to show the ball as that is what serves as your "ship" and besides, who is to say that the ideal spacecraft isn't a metallic sphere with a hidden ion drive or some nonsense.  Kind of like a pinball with a comet trail curving outside the graphic from upper left to lower right. 

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 09:16:13 pm by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2014, 09:08:21 pm »
I love it except for one part.  I'm not a fan of the helmet.  I don't know why, just not liking the glass part of it.  I like the electronics on it, even the part on top, but the globe, not so much.  Maybe a glass visor coming out of the top part or something?  Oh well.

The rest of it is great.  I love the stippling affect on the asteroids, very comic book looking.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2014, 10:41:56 am »
who is to say that the ideal spacecraft isn't a metallic sphere with a hidden ion drive or some nonsense.

Pinballs in spaaacccceeeee!!!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2014, 10:43:46 am »
Less typing, more progress photos

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2014, 07:37:28 pm »
Had a wisdom tooth taken out today - gave me the afternoon to play with the art.  Think I'm about ready to put a fork in it.  Again, sorry for lowrez uploads.  Once it's all said and done there will be links for fullsize downloads. 


Sideart


Playfield


CPO - no change to this one, will pick up the highlight colors through the plastics. 

OMHFG does my face hurt.  Wowzers. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2014, 08:06:42 pm »
Had a wisdom tooth taken out today -

OMHFG does my face hurt.  Wowzers.

Well, yeah!  That's what happens when a total stranger introduces power tools to your face.  They give you decent drugs?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2014, 12:17:42 pm »
I'm not going to make this into a content about who has had the worst experience, but I sure hope yours was better than mine!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2014, 12:36:36 pm »
I'm not going to make this into a content about who has had the worst experience, but I sure hope yours was better than mine!

Admittedly and joyfully. I'm great today!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2014, 01:38:10 pm »
Well gentlemen I think the artwork, and well the whole concept really - looks just fine as is.
Not sure I have ever seen a ICB here in the UK and just watched a gameplay vid to get a better idea and boy does it look like fun combined with inebriation  :laugh2: .

If a run was ever to happen I bet you would sell as many as you were prepared to make.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2014, 02:30:25 am »
Le Chuck - I think it looks great, can't wait to see this progress is on my must watch list.  :cheers:

..and guys would be good if the thread got back on track as well!  :soapbox:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2014, 02:44:31 am »
I think the whole project looks and sounds great. I looking forward to some more progress pictures. And also some pictures of the mechanics/electronics. You are doing an amazing job!  :applaud:

..and guys would be good if the thread got back on track as well!  :soapbox:

Agreed, just report and ignore.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2014, 09:03:40 am »
I think the mix of radial half-tone and flat skin shade is actually pretty nice, I preferred the green asteroids though.  All in all, it hits the retro sci-fi mark as intended.  It's ironical really, all this talk about shading and here I am endlessly playing with and experimenting with toon shaders applied to 3D objects to try and achieve a cel shading I'm happy with.  Heh, I'm close now, real close. 

Anyway, onya L.C. for coming up with different and interesting projects like this, ed does a great job on the music stuff doesn't he?

OND

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2014, 11:15:17 am »
Slippy, Generic Eric, PBJ, Yot, SavannahLion, PurpleStuff, Tallgeek, Rocky, Sjaak, and Ond - thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback and look forward to making some more sawdust here shortly. 

I'm ironing out the fullsize cab plans, it's taking me a bit as I'm working from ether but once I get that done it should go together quickly.  Of course, that's just a small piece of this project.

I too am looking forward to the next music update.  I'm itching to hear that completed panic tune. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2014, 01:01:14 pm »
I, for one, love the art, and I think the space babe is perfect for it.  I love the gradients and how it is not in any way trying to be "3d" or "photorealistic" with shadowing, but rather a pretty pure "pop art" style.  I think you nailed it!

You mentioned that the plastics on the CP will introduce the highlight color.. are you going with purple controls then?  I love the gray with purple, and adding the green for highlight fits the style to perfection, and the reddish blond hair gives it just enough pop!  Did you draw this from scratch or start with some basic pinup art and go from there?  Either way I applaud your photoshop skills, I have enough experience with photoshop to know just how much talent you need to achieve something of this grade.  Beyond my talents, no doubt.

BTW, after reading X2's critiques of colors here and in my latest project thread, I think he is color blind..

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2014, 01:17:51 pm »
He's colorblind, he's posted stuff before from a "colorblind artist friend" that was almost certainly his work.

Being colorblind myself, I can say that things often look rather weird to us that look fine to the rest of you.  Particularly all this obsession over 'shading', it's probably because some of the half tones look off in his eyes.  I generally possess the self-awareness to keep my mouth shut about others color choices, though. (and keep my own choices to primary colors)

My issue with it was the rampant and needless sexualization of yet another woman in this hobby's artwork.  But, wait, aren't I the Konkey Dong guy?  Why, yes, yes I am and that was my 'comment' on the matter.  I helped a guy do a custom translite for a Chicago Coin Astronaut once, and we basically plastered the thing with space chicks and ray guns.  Not ALL of them are begging for the player to come and rip off their space suits.  I haven't actually unwrapped my copy of the new Tomb Raider game but it seems like they did a much better job of the attractive woman that can fend for herself.

Here's a couple of examples I netswiped:



vs




I'd prefer to see something along the lines of the first image.  I can get my porn elsewhere.  It's awesome that he's going to release all the artwork assets so we can tweak as we see fit.  No further comment needed.

 :cheers:









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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2014, 01:31:52 pm »
So for you it is clothes, not the curves that are the line between "OK" and "smut"?  So if the space babe in question had a skin tight suit that covered her thighs, midriff, and arms, it would be acceptable to you?  Or is it her pose that you have a problem with?

Just wondering, personally I don't see it as overly sexual, and to me, pinup is not porn it is art.  But then I am dating a former stripper who has been in front of the camera a time or two, so I suppose my views on sexuality are probably a little different from yours..  :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2014, 01:41:26 pm »
I agree with Dave, I don't see it as being overly sexual as well. Maybe if she was helpless and clinging to a man, that would be a different story.

And I'd glad you brought up Rapey Kong, because I didn't want to be that guy....
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2014, 02:55:12 pm »
I get where PBJ is coming from and I think I understand the motive behind Konkey Dong as a black humor parody - I also respect how he has handled the conversation and yes all the files will go up as I said.  As to whether or not Space Gal is exploitive I will leave that to the individual - I recognize that I do have a huge penchant for the pin-up style (recall the Fieldhouse sideart) and am very accepting that it isn't everyone's cup of tea. 

I'll probably play with the greens some more based on Ond's feedback but my gut tells me I'll stick with the purples and grab the greens through the controls to pull it together.  Also, the 7 segment displays are green, so that'll be nice. 

@Vigo, roflol

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2014, 11:28:55 pm »
Would it have been any different if it was known a female is the artist?

I don't see it as that big of a deal. There are artists (or rather, a group) like CLAMP that do a very interesting job portraying women.

To me, personally, I would give her a full body suit (like the first image shown by PBJ) not because I'm a prude but because I can't realistically see her being in a hostile environment necessitating a full helmet but wearing such a skimpy outfit. I also have a penchant for brunettes. However, since I have no plans to put her, specifically, on my wall any time soon, all of those details are rather moot.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2014, 02:06:45 am »
Personally every time I come back to this thread and see the image of the space girl all that`s in my head is the opening scene of barbarella.
And believe me that is a good thing.
What are peoples thoughts on the way women/barbarella is portrayed in that scene?.



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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2014, 08:22:42 am »
I can't realistically see her being in a hostile environment necessitating a full helmet but wearing such a skimpy outfit.

You folks have never heard of lycra?  Of course she's in some kind of protective suit, what is the patch on her arm stuck to?  It's just flesh toned like the stuff ice dancers wear. 

Seriously tho, ya'll are reading waaaaay to much into this, it's supposed to be fun. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2014, 10:23:17 am »
I can't realistically see her being in a hostile environment necessitating a full helmet but wearing such a skimpy outfit.

You folks have never heard of lycra?  Of course she's in some kind of protective suit, what is the patch on her arm stuck to?  It's just flesh toned like the stuff ice dancers wear. 

Seriously tho, ya'll are reading waaaaay to much into this, it's supposed to be fun.

I figured it was attached the same way nipple tassles are attached. If you have to Google that, you really need to get out more.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2014, 02:48:41 pm »
Here we have like the coolest project I've seen in many moons, and then you guys spend the time discussing a little piece of the artwork? :hissy: The artwork will ALWAYS be a personal preference. There's NO WAY you can make everyone happy with the artwork. I want to see more of the project itself. Technical solutions, WIP pictures and everything else.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2014, 03:48:18 pm »
I want to see more of the project itself. Technical solutions, WIP pictures and everything else.

That's why I keep coming back. I'm watching this thread. I'm really curious which IC he's using as a 10/4 for ten switched inputs. The only IC I know of has the 10th bit implied. Same goes for his choice of servo over steppers or plain jane motors for the bar. I'm opting for the latter since I don't really feel it's a good idea to hack servos for this. And all the other intriguing design choices.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2014, 04:06:07 pm »
iirc, the 10/4 encoder I've been eyeing is the CD40147BE

specs: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd40147b.pdf

I've coded for servo's, varying the speed based on difficulty level and so forth.  Untested against a machine at this point.  Do you have specific concerns?

I can answer other tech questions you may have as well.

thx

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2014, 04:16:44 pm »
Why would we hack a servo when addressable continuously rotatable servos are easily available? I don't get what the "hack" is.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2014, 10:48:42 pm »
Relax guys. It's not an attack. :cheers:


Only servos I've seen are limited rotation. About 180 degrees of rotation, sometimes more, not usually less. If they're continuous rotation it was always because they've been hacked. Their stops usually ground out and the potentiometer modified to always read center. Did a Google search and it seems you can get them already made but the selection seems small. Though I would ask that if you have a servo without the positional feedback, is it a servo anymore? Or is it just a nicely packaged motor with a PWM speed circuit?  :P (no more smilie ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- from this point forward)

My comment about not using them stems from hacking the servos. I fried more than a few motors in one fashion or another and don't have a desire to modify a servo down the road when trying to replace one in my cab. I was eyeing bone standard NEMA mount motors looking for a nice control circuitry to go with it, but I can't for the life of me figure out how much force I need to do what I want. But since you seem to have handily solved that, I'm very curious as to where you sourced said motors. I kind of wanted to wait and see but cest la vie I guess. Everybody bickering about the chick probably killed the mood there.

The only 10/4 I could ever recall is from the 7400 series. It's all I've been working with lately. Never occurred to me to check the 4000 series of IC's. A very interesting way to get only-one-bit-is-flipped down to fewer lines. Even if it was a "10"/4 from the 7400 series. A 10/4 won't work in my circuit but it is a great idea nonetheless. If I was jonesing for pins I either serialized the input or cheated and used my output and strobed the switches. But use a 10/4? No never even crossed my mind.

I like the use of the Pi for audio but are you leveraging all of the Pi's power? You haven't shared yet. I have a different target and different distribution but, with a Pi, you have all sorts of super cool capabilities at your disposal that can be integrated into the game.

I ditched the LED digit display entirely. IMHO it grew too complex with virtually microscopic returns. I might redesign the circuitry but I'll have to settle for a crappy looking board. I have everything except a PCB to solder to.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2014, 03:39:23 am »
It's all good, I didn't take it as an attack, just wanted to clarify where you were going.  I've done quite a few "hacks" on my projects through the years and am usually quite proud of them.  So far this project is hack free tho (unless you count the home made drive wheels and mounts) and that's because I very much want this to be something that can be replicated.  Hacks add a lot of complexity.  There's a reason you don't see a lot of wireless hot-swappable TRON sticks with in-game switching from 8 way to 4 way for the light cycle level.  It's a holy rolling PITA to setup right. 

We have discussed moving to PWM equipped motors but it's a price hike of about $30-$40 iirc.  I've already installed the units and tested them out using the micro maestro to put them through a full range of movement on the actual playfield with no issue, in fact, because I was using simple movement scripts just for a quick test I had trouble getting them to go slow enough for the game to be playable.  I could get a "crawl" pretty well but then I'd jump to "instant death" with the next speed hike - again just me fiddling in the garage and not using any of IDS's code or work he's already done. 

If they don't work then we just move up to the next more robust option.  At roughly $10 a pop they are too good to not test all the way to ground.  If they don't work flawlessly and consistently we'll move on.  That's the reason I haven't posted the full parts list, I don't want anybody to waste any money on something that might go into the proto/Alpha Unit but doesn't go into the final. 

I'll let IDS address the rpi as that's more in his wheelhouse. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2014, 01:30:46 am »
The pi - yeah, it really is overkill when used just for audio.  It was not an easy decision for that reason, but I could not find anything which could come close to it in either price OR performance.  For the same price as a pi model A, you can get some rudimentary things to play a single audio stream.  I've also seen other boards at twice the price unable to do what a pi can do with audio.  We also wanted the ability to overlay sounds - so we could have the background music going, then overlay some effect or voice at key moments.  I had put a lot of effort into optimizing code on the Freescale to pull audio (uncompressed waveform data) from an SD card, push it out through the DAC pin and through a simple amp chip, but this was limited in capability (bitrate, single stream, etc) and consumed a lot of cycles, make game code more challenging.

The pi can not only play most any format of audio, as well as combine multiple streams, it also has SD built in - this simplifies the microcontroller code further by removing support for SD and freeing up some pins.  The config file and high-score are stored on the SD.  Offloading functions to a complete separate unit has other benefits as well (freeing up compute cycles, parallelism, ...)

So, as of today, the freescale connects to the pi via USB, and they use serial over USB to talk to each other.  The KL25z is "master" - sending commands to the pi, and getting basic responses back.  Commands include "play that tune", "give me the config file", etc  The serial baud rate is set quite high so it's not a terrible burden.  It's working well so far.

One last point - as was stated earlier, the pi can do so much more.   And the latest pi's have many more I/O pins as well.  To my knowledge, however, there are no pin driven interrupts, and there are other limitations (#pwm pins, preemptive multitasking OS issues, voltage and current considerations, etc) that make it unable to take over everything the KL25z is doing.  If I thought the pi could do it all, I'd drop the microcontroller.

That's my $0.02, fwiw

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2014, 03:49:17 pm »
I wasn't thinking of having the Pi pick up the IO. I looked at that too and, quite frankly, it's better to treat it like a computer rather than to try and make it a glorified micro some are so apt to do.

I was thinking along the lines of things like, are you able to push new firmware out to the KL25z from the Pi? I intend on including the tools to push new firmware to my child modules. Package an update and, in theory, the entire system updates itself.

I didn't consider leveraging the Pi for the SD card to get config data. I didn't think in that direction. Did you consider the B version to send high scores to a central server? Or to push firmware or game mode updates remotely via the network?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2014, 04:21:10 pm »
Some interesting ideas I had not considered, and if time permits, we may get there one day.  The pi code could obviously run on either model, I was just trying to keep costs down with the 'A', didn't see the need for an extra USB port and the ethernet port, but you present reasons why it might be desirable.  OTOH, you could drop in a USB based wifi adapter into an 'A' and go wireless as well.  Lots of options, but until i finish the game code....

Thanks.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2014, 06:37:10 pm »
I have a few more days with my niece visiting, she is helping me finish up the smurfs machine and her own little Arcade Safari machine, but after that (starting tuesday next week) I will be back bouncing down existing audio and working that panic tune.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2014, 10:51:08 am »
Been enjoying the main tune, looking forward to the panic tune.  :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2014, 08:50:38 am »
I'm building all the cut paths in Artcam to export to Gcode. Won't be able to cut until my buddy's new CNC machine arrives and we get it up and going. (He ordered 6 weeks ago, should arrive this month).

eds1275 has cranked out the panic tune and is wrapping up the sound.

IDS is still doing all the programming but at this point is waiting on me to get the proto up to him so he can move beyond bench top testing.

We've each got over a year in this. We aren't going anywhere, we're just doing it as it can be done and no, X2, is incapable of affecting anything I do so don't worry about that ;)

Hopefully by the end of this month to the middle of next month we will have sawdust but I have to help assemble and troubleshoot the as of yet undelivered CNC first.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2014, 01:32:55 pm »
X2, is incapable of affecting anything I do

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

I will send off the short panic tune today and wrap up the dialogue editing monday. FO REALZ

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2014, 08:19:49 pm »
Well, I'm glad to find out that this project is still going forward!

I don't think I've seen a cooler project on this side of the millenium change!  :cheers: :cheers:
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:18:13 pm by johnrt »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2014, 10:55:40 pm »
Well, I'm glad to find out that this project is still going forward!

I don't think I've seen a cooler project on this side of the millenium change!  :cheers: :cheers:

+1  :applaud:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2014, 09:42:45 am »
Thread cleaned up! Looks awesome, I like the retro-cheesecake space-babe theme.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 10:01:35 am by saint »
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2014, 11:57:27 am »
Thread cleaned up! Looks awesome, I like the retro-cheesecake space-babe theme.

Gracias!!!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2014, 02:58:18 pm »
I had to look this game up.
I want to say I remember the the cleaner goat version of this game from my youth but I can't say for sure.

I would of been in grade-school when this game was out in the wild & honestly would of probably ignored it at Alladins castle or Chuckie Cheese. :)

But, I dig the artwork.
Reminds me of the classic sci-fi comics.
http://www.swapsale.com/planetcomix.htm

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2014, 11:57:03 pm »
I had to look this game up.
I want to say I remember the the cleaner goat version of this game from my youth but I can't say for sure.
M
I would of been in grade-school when this game was out in the wild & honestly would of probably ignored it at Alladins castle or Chuckie Cheese. :)

But, I dig the artwork.
Reminds me of the classic sci-fi comics.
http://www.swapsale.com/planetcomix.htm

Same here. I would've skipped it in the wild. But as I got older and pretty much played the crap out of the usual favs you start looking for different style of games.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2014, 02:38:59 am »
Here's a little audio teaser I slapped together. Edited this post to share a link to the mp3 version. 2.25 mb, enjoy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09q4idxoeoppp5z/Teaser%20Trailermp3.mp3?dl=0

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2014, 10:17:56 am »
Here's a little audio teaser I slapped together. Beware, this is 16.5 whole megabytes.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s826yc7kx77lc03/Teaser%20Trailer.wav?dl=0

Totally worth a listen in my incredibly biased opinion. This is like an ear candy snapshot of where we are headed. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2014, 10:35:10 am »
Totally worth a listen in my incredibly biased opinion. This is like an ear candy snapshot of where we are headed.

Ditto

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2014, 10:40:45 am »
That is pretty awesome man!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2014, 11:03:19 am »
Here's a little audio teaser I slapped together. Beware, this is 16.5 whole megabytes.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s826yc7kx77lc03/Teaser%20Trailer.wav?dl=0

You know someone is a perfectionist about their work when they won't compress a song less than 2 mins long below 16 MB.  ;D That's a good thing, though. This is teaser pretty damn sweet. Obviously professional work.

So by teaser, do you mean that this will be used in attract mode, or is this more like promotional music?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2014, 03:43:20 pm »
This actually wasn't meant fo forum posting, but one of the other guys suggested I post it. Ill crush it down to soulless mp3 soon.

**edit here you go, 2.25mb.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/09q4idxoeoppp5z/Teaser%20Trailermp3.mp3?dl=0

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2014, 12:25:55 pm »
Had a wisdom tooth taken out today - gave me the afternoon to play with the art.  Think I'm about ready to put a fork in it.  Again, sorry for lowrez uploads.  Once it's all said and done there will be links for fullsize downloads. 


Sideart


Playfield


CPO - no change to this one, will pick up the highlight colors through the plastics. 

OMHFG does my face hurt.  Wowzers.

Hmm... How about a horizontal brushed steel/aluminium on the plane faces (text + circles), instead of the silver fading?

Sjaak

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2014, 02:15:06 pm »
now I'll just be happy to get a complete parts list, art download, cut plans, and program/music downloads out into the community so anybody can make their own. 

This is an amazing project and it's great that you are sharing the artwork, sounds and music. I've started on my own version of SpaceBase, but instead of building a cabinet, I'm doing an arcade version that can be played on any cabinet (with two joysticks).


eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #92 on: October 12, 2014, 02:36:19 pm »
now I'll just be happy to get a complete parts list, art download, cut plans, and program/music downloads out into the community so anybody can make their own. 

This is an amazing project and it's great that you are sharing the artwork, sounds and music. I've started on my own version of SpaceBase, but instead of building a cabinet, I'm doing an arcade version that can be played on any cabinet (with two joysticks).



Beat me to it!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #93 on: October 12, 2014, 03:04:31 pm »
Super coolness.  This may be the first "indie" thing I install on my cab if possible.  This project has be stoked.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2014, 06:19:48 pm »
Spent a fair amount of time doing the initial cut plan for the playfield, now I'll tackle the two different cabs that this will require (one that is packable so I can get it up to Canada for IDS to work with) and one that is a straight ICB clone for me ;)  The image shows the playfield with the CNC cut path overlaid.  Should get access to the CNC next month so I'll be getting everything ready to be cut between now and then.  Feeling pretty good about this!




Hmm... How about a horizontal brushed steel/aluminium on the plane faces (text + circles), instead of the silver fading?

The upload images don't show but those surfaces are brushed; however, since you mentioned it I'll take a look at the brush to fade ratio on those and see if I can't clean it up some more.  The brush is pretty fine and done at 45o but I'll adjust the angle, length, and see if there's something more better lurking in there.  Thanks for the feedback!

This is an amazing project and it's great that you are sharing the artwork, sounds and music. I've started on my own version of SpaceBase, but instead of building a cabinet, I'm doing an arcade version that can be played on any cabinet (with two joysticks).

Awesome, we used the flash version quite a bit in developing our initial rule set and to get a feel for the game since none of us actually own an ICB or Zeke's Peak.  The rule set we're designing is a fair departure from original with regard to how the count down timer and difficulty adjusts.  I think it's totally awesome you're tackling this.  Once we get a the actual unit up and running it should be pretty easy to make your version spot on. 

Oh, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it at first, then I realized you're using an earlier version of the art, the pink is too much for me ::)

« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 06:23:56 pm by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2014, 08:47:55 am »
CNC machine has arrived and is installed.  System is one stepper motor coupling away from being functional, we busted one when a factor installed set screw backed out and caught the mount during testing.  Tested everything else out that we could last night.  Once that's replaced we'll be up and running, will need to confirm alignment and start cutting.  Super excited, it's a 4ft x 4ft table.  Hopefully we're making sawdust before too long!


Having good friends who like to share their toys is awesome!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2014, 09:11:23 am »
CNC machine has arrived and is installed.

:applaud:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2014, 09:17:49 am »
CNC machine has arrived and is installed. 

Super jelly.   :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2014, 11:22:32 am »
I have to join the group that doesn't recall ever seeing one of these in the wild when I was younger, perhaps I just overlooked it for something with a monitor.

This is looking great so far and I love the asteroid dodging theme you have added to it.  The pinup style artwork is great as well.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2014, 08:01:43 pm »
I have been hoping somebody would recreate the original ICB/Zeke's Peak!!

Man, I am soooo all over this!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2014, 07:36:14 am »
Holy cow, super busy these last few weeks.  Got some time over this holiday to start working with the CNC machine, it's now up and running cutting signs for my buddy's business.  I was also able to get the CP cut and will be test fitting all the components this week.  I still have to finish the cabinet plans and a few other pieces on the CAM side then I'll be ready to print off a proto type and send up to the great white north for IDS to have his way with ;)


« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 07:53:37 am by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2014, 08:42:48 am »
You either made a stunning ICB panel, or the world's fugliest 4-player hit box cp.  :burgerking:




Looks great man! Can't wait to see IDS do his thing.  :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2014, 09:00:47 am »
Thread cleaned up! Looks awesome, I like the retro-cheesecake space-babe theme.

Gracias!!!

Can someone please explain this term to me!

Excellent project!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2014, 10:12:09 am »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2014, 10:21:24 pm »
Curiuous, ids where in Canada are you located?

If you are anywhere near me I would love to help out any way I can...

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2014, 12:34:49 am »
I'm jealous of the time you guys have to put into this, and the access to the tools that your friends have.  :notworthy:

Is your buddies sign shop going to double in flatpack copies of this for a single run? 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2014, 01:45:51 am »
Curiuous, ids where in Canada are you located?

If you are anywhere near me I would love to help out any way I can...

I'm in the GTA.
Given that I've had no free time for a few months, perhaps a smidgen of help would...well...help.

orangewhip

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2014, 03:42:33 pm »
Dang, I'm on the west coast in Vancouver.... too bad.

I'm in the GTA.
Given that I've had no free time for a few months, perhaps a smidgen of help would...well...help.

eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2014, 03:58:27 pm »
Dang, I'm on the west coast in Vancouver.... too bad.

Whoop another vancity person. I grew up there but need property and space to make my noise, so I moved to Nanaimo. I'm over there 2/3 times a month though.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2014, 05:06:07 pm »
I hear ya.... I'm actually in Surrey, not Van itself...so I have a bit of room. ;)

Really looking forward to seeing this build finished!

Whoop another vancity person. I grew up there but need property and space to make my noise, so I moved to Nanaimo. I'm over there 2/3 times a month though.

yotsuya

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #110 on: November 17, 2014, 10:41:16 pm »
I hear ya.... I'm actually in Surrey, not Van itself...so I have a bit of room. ;)

Really looking forward to seeing this build finished!

Whoop another vancity person. I grew up there but need property and space to make my noise, so I moved to Nanaimo. I'm over there 2/3 times a month though.

Surrey? Have you read Patton Oswalt's book and the chapter about the 10 days he spent in Surrey?
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2014, 09:55:38 am »
I'm not sure what should surprise me more.  That Patton Oswalt is capable of writing a book or that his fans are literate.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2014, 10:04:47 am »
I'm not sure what should surprise me more.  That Patton Oswalt is capable of writing a book or that his fans are literate.

***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2014, 10:47:48 am »
If you watch or listen to his stand up comedy, you realize that he is actually pretty damn funny and not at all unsmart.. I was surprised myself, and now I am a fan..

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2014, 10:53:28 am »
Nice route.  Always wanted a cnc...

  Been having some rough times lately,  but thought id offer a little more advice before its regrettable.

 The bar hinge mounts you have are not as robust as the originals.. and I suspect they wont hold up too well for duration of use.

 See if you can get someone to send closeups of the mounts.   

 Even the originals had their weak points.  I had to rebuild my assembly.  I was fortunate to find a hobby shop that sold the thin walled tubing that matched the original spec.  I drilled the holes, and then injected some hot glued into the tubes ends to keep them still so they wouldnt bend/flex/loosen. .. and while hot, inserted the mounts in place.

 The tube thickness is important.  Too.thick... and there will be a drop off and or hop point... where one bar meets the next.  You cant have a sticky spot on a game like this.. as it will throw off the much needed, and quite critical, gameplay control.

 I ended up using brass, cause I thought it looked great... and was a better match for the look of a bar themed game.   However,  after considering it more after the fact... I was thinking that the original tube may have better durability and less friction, with long term use.  I think I at least clear coat sprayed them lightly after polishing them.

 I wondering if a 3 tube / bar  system wouldnt be a better idea. A system to lock the main bar in center would be needed.

 As for the surface and hole internals... you want these glass smooth.  Any surface friction will ruin gameplay.. as the ball may get slowed or stuck.  Dust often was the cause... and it was so badly effecting gameplay, that I had to take the entire machine apart,  cleaning every surface... including the ball routing trails.

 Probably want to use a laminate, and or a plexi covering. The holes will probably need plastic tube inserts... else the ball will wear them quite quickly... especially if using mdf.  Plastic will also be easier to clean.

 Dont merely rely on paint.  Balls rolling over a painted and.or even a lightly clearcoated surface... will still tear it apart quickly.   On pinballs,  the longest lasting machines playfields have a clear mylar film glued on them.

 Remember... mechanics are brutal.  Friction, wear, mass, collisions... all a factor.  Enough smahing... and things get loose.  Loose parts cause misalignment. .. which causes grinding wear... which escalates quickly into permanent functionality problems.

 

Sjaak

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2014, 11:17:53 am »
Holy cow, super busy these last few weeks.  Got some time over this holiday to start working with the CNC machine, it's now up and running cutting signs for my buddy's business.  I was also able to get the CP cut and will be test fitting all the components this week.  I still have to finish the cabinet plans and a few other pieces on the CAM side then I'll be ready to print off a proto type and send up to the great white north for IDS to have his way with ;)



Great job, did you only do this panel or have you cnc'ed other stuff?

eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2014, 11:48:07 am »
Surrey? Have you read Patton Oswalt's book and the chapter about the 10 days he spent in Surrey?

I'm guessing it's all bad. Surrey is one of those places that has a really bad rep and once deserved it. There are still some rough pockets but it's much better than it was even 10 years ago.

pbj

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2014, 12:02:37 pm »
There are still some rough pockets but it's much better than it was even 10 years ago.

Legalized abortion and the elimination of leaded gasoline are to thank for that.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2014, 12:22:49 pm »
X, Assuming a system to keep a center bar in place, a three bar might not still work right. During gameplay what is the longest tangent between stops on the bar? If you tilt the bar enough, the playable field shrinks. That could be enough to influence the gameplay when a player can use the stop as a means to move the ball. Of course that can be done on the older two bar but the distance between each point expands keeping the posts in more or less same position relative to the playfield.

A three bar with sliding stops perhaps?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2014, 01:03:53 pm »
Surrey? Have you read Patton Oswalt's book and the chapter about the 10 days he spent in Surrey?

I'm guessing it's all bad. Surrey is one of those places that has a really bad rep and once deserved it. There are still some rough pockets but it's much better than it was even 10 years ago.

Yeah, it was. He basically said the only way he'd ever return to Surrey is if he had to go there to save the world from a mythical demon, and even at that, he might just say "screw it" and let the demon win. I think the issue with Surrey wasn't so much the town as it was the experience he had with the comedy club owner there. It's a good chapter called "The Victory Tour" in his book.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #120 on: November 18, 2014, 04:54:08 pm »
I didn't even know we had a comedy club here, and probably don't any more. I bet you it was a scummy night club and not a comedy club.

But yeah, Surrey get s huge bad rap....it was pretty bad in the 1970s but is a completely different place these days. Sure, every major city has its sketchy areas, including Surrey, but those areas are changing the most...new city hall built there, new library, tons of new high rises. Its because Surrey is quickly taking over the population of Vancouver and within a half dozen years they suspect it will be larger than Vancouver.

That being said, I also read somewhere that Patton LOVES Vancouver, and his shows in Vancouver are amongst his favorite...well, I hate to tell him but I bet you 40-50% of the people who go to the Vancouver shows are from Surrey, because we take up a huge chunk of the population, and Vancouverites are a bunch of hippy, tree-hugging, prius drivers, who probably don't even know who Patton is (no offence to Vancouverites).

Plus Vancouver being the 2nd most expensive city in the world to live, even an empty lot in Vancouver is around $1.2 million these days, most Vancouverites couldn't afford to go to a show! hahahaha


Now, let's get back to the original thread content...enough hijacking the thread about Patton and Surrey. LOL

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #121 on: December 23, 2014, 12:06:00 am »
What is the estimated enclosing "box" dimension of the scoreboard?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #122 on: December 23, 2014, 01:55:21 am »
I don't have the dimensions you are looking for, but iirc the individual components are: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9932 packed as tightly as can be on perfboard.  I've yet to solder them all up so I can't provide any more detail.  The pins on these don't perfectly line up with standard perfboard holes but it seems you could pack them in nicely.  I should be soldering soon at which point could provide more precise details.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #123 on: December 23, 2014, 10:33:14 am »
Holy crap, an inch high?

Are you using a decoder IC for the 16 segment or are you leaving it up to whatever controller you have under the hood? I was just looking for 14 and 16 segment decoders the other day to see what their tables look like but only found MAXIM's chip. Can't recall the part number off the top of my head but I believe it was a BCD to 16 segment programmable decoder.

ids

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2014, 03:11:14 pm »
iirc I'm using a set of four TLC5916 constant current shift registers to reduce pin count on the controller.  Two drive a single display, the four are so I drive one on each row (a column) then quickly cycle through them all.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2014, 04:46:31 pm »
No, sorry. I meant the "truth" table.

Eg BCD to 7 segment decoder IC lets you feed it 4bits and turn on the appropriate segments matching that value.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2014, 08:46:58 pm »
oh sorry, well, if I understand you better now, the "truth" table is this:  I've coded a mapping between letters, numbers, etc, and the sequence of 1's and 0's to be serialized out to the shift registers.

There is an interrupt routine scheduled to cycle the columns - it picks out the n'th letter in the string of text to be shown, looks it up in the mapping, and shifts out the 1's/0's for the column, and then switches which column is "on".  No assistance of any BCD to 7-seg or any such things - it was all brute force creating a big mapping table.  The microcontroller is doing it all.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #127 on: December 23, 2014, 09:20:59 pm »
I've got the same deal in mine.

Mine has, for lack of a better term, 7 bit RAW and BCD 7-segment mappings but none yet for 14 or 16 segment characters. I would be interested in your character tables if you're willing to share.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2014, 09:32:33 pm »
Sure, I'll PM the code to you

Le Chuck

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #129 on: January 08, 2015, 09:56:30 pm »
I meant to get past this point during the holidays but I had some work related duties come up that took up most of my free time so I'm finally getting back to this now.  I've got the side panels laid out in my cam software, this is about the fourth iteration due to necessary tweaks and issues that come up during the design.  I'm running channels for battens and channels for the glass and playfield to reside.  Side panels I'm planning to be 3/4" stock with the body panels at 1/5".  Because my cutting surface is just 50"x50" I'll be doing it in a top and bottom.  This works out for the one I have to send up to IDS in the great white north as it can be a bartop or he can add a box, I'll likely do his in 1/2" to save on shipping.  On mine I'm toying with either doing a 3D vinyl woodgrain or carbon fibre over the sides to cover the seam and give it a nice look.  If that doesn't strike my fancy I'll do it in 1/2" and then cover the two pieces once joined with a sheet of 1/4" MDF and just buzz it with the template bit before painting. 

Still to do in cam is to lay out the front panel with the speaker, and measure all the panels so I can get those cut easily.  After that it's a matter of taking it all to the shop and seeing if it comes out how I'm picturing it. 


Might not look like much but it took me long enough to get it all worked out in my head.  If I had a ICB or ZP to work off of this would have went a lot faster but I was figuring it out as I went ;)  Can't wait to see if it actually works.

For those that care about such things it is 23.5" deep, the playfield is 34" but the viewable area is 29.5".  The PF and bezel are at a 2o angle and the CP is at a 7o.  The body panels are 23.25".  The channels for the PF and BZ are .125" deep and the batten channels are .25" deep.  I'll use 3/4x1/2 strips for the battens.  Height of what is shown is 38 3/8".

What's neat about this design is that we'll only need about 4" of clearance behind the PF so really this whole build could be about 10" deep.  It would be terribly unstable at that depth for a stand alone but as a wall mount it could work rather well.  I will do up wall mount cut plans if anyone is interested once complete.   
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 10:06:15 pm by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #130 on: January 08, 2015, 11:43:41 pm »
I'd appreciate you stop stealing my ideas.... :whap

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #131 on: January 09, 2015, 06:07:20 am »
I'd appreciate you stop stealing my ideas.... :whap

Ha! Stealing would be waaaay easier than this, you should post those ideas and save me the time ;)

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2015, 09:56:54 pm »
Have a four day weekend coming up.  Did some prep work last weekend so I'll be able to assemble, paint, and who knows what else.  Should be a lot of fun.  Prototype construction on fullsize unit begins. 


Biggest piece to get right up front is doing the joinery on the side panels.  Once joined I'll be skinning them in 1/4" stock to bring them up to 3/4" deep and add some stability.  I'm not too worried about it, if it doesn't pan I have a great routing template done ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 09:58:59 pm by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2015, 12:13:18 am »
looks pretty slick!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #134 on: January 16, 2015, 02:32:48 pm »
What a great day!  I was off work, kids had school, darling wife went shopping and to get her hair did, leaving me to my devices.  Glorious.  Got a lot done and am very pleased with how the build is coming together.  From here I still have so much to do it's not really worth listing but next few things I'd like to get accomplished this weekend are paint, glass, panel the sides with a single sheet of 1/4", and build the base (needs to sit 3.5" higher).  Maybe I'll get to a few other things but I have some other projects needing some attention this weekend as well. 


Went ahead and dropped in the coin door just to see how it looks.  I'm pretty stoked with how it is looking.


Playfield and CP detail.  Lots more to do in that area.


Detail of the front panel.  Added in "Space Base" engraved with a v-bit to the kick plate area to add a bit of eye candy.  Really happy with how that piece turned out.  This panel actually got cut twice, the first one I used an end mill and blocked in the letters but wasn't pleased with the look so I ran off a new one last night.  Much better IMO.


The view offers a very good detail of distortion that I'll need to sand out from doing the end joining.  Used the batton recesses so I couldn't mess up the alignment and then stuck the whole mess together with pocket screws.  All panels are pocket screwed and glued as well.  I'll hit those bumps with a bit of sand paper and then when I overlay the 1/4" panel it'll be like they were never there. 


View of the inside just because.


Top panel will be hinged so one can slide out the bezel and playfield as necessary.  LED lighting will go between the bezel and PF to light up the top of the PF but I need to play with that quite a bit as I'm worried about glare and whatnot. 


I love CNC machines.  Everything can fit together so nicely if you tell it to ;)



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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #135 on: January 16, 2015, 02:46:39 pm »



Playfield and CP detail.  Lots more to do in that area.


Am I the only one that sees naked people in that hole pattern?

Looks like a good days work.
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #136 on: January 16, 2015, 02:55:37 pm »
I looked but couldn't see naked people. And I really, REALLY wanted to.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #137 on: January 16, 2015, 03:00:16 pm »
Looks Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, bro!  :cheers:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #138 on: January 16, 2015, 03:02:24 pm »
I nominate Space Base for the 2015 UCA in the "Full Size - Non Restoration - 2 Stick - Big Coin Door" category  ;D.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #139 on: January 16, 2015, 03:03:13 pm »
I nominate Space Base for the 2015 UCA in the "Full Size - Non Restoration - 2 Stick - Big Coin Door" category  ;D.

Gotta find two more to make that category, brother.  :cheers:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2015, 03:06:36 pm »
Looks spectacular!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2015, 03:07:25 pm »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2015, 03:42:18 pm »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2015, 04:46:31 pm »
Wow...that looks awesome!

Finally sat down and read through the whole thread so now I'm all caught up.  :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2015, 04:52:43 pm »
Am I the only one that sees naked people in that hole pattern?
Yes! It's time to get laid now brother!  :lol

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2015, 07:04:53 pm »


The SNL commercial this GIF comes from is an all-time classic....
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2015, 07:29:35 pm »
For years I've wanted an ICB. But then I played one for the first time recently. Definitely dig this project though. Love the mechanical nature of the machine. :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2015, 07:35:24 pm »
That engraving on the bottom is off the hook.   :applaud:

Can you give some more information on how you did that?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2015, 08:21:03 pm »
Thanks for the kudos guys!  It's coming along, I went to see American Sniper with a buddy (OMHFG that movie was intense - definitely hit a few nerves) and when I popped the garage door up I was so happy to see this build sitting there in the middle of the garage.  No where near complete but I've been working on this for god, almost two years in some form or fashion.  Really nice to see it starting to come alive. 

Any opinions on skinning the sides?  MDF for a black paint job (body panels will be black) or a nice wood panel and stain?  I'm leaning towards stain as homage to the inspiration machines. 

That engraving on the bottom is off the hook.   :applaud:

Can you give some more information on how you did that?

Sure, to start it's machine cut, wish I could do that by hand - there are some contraptions out there with which you can but I've never used them.  The cam software I'm using is called ArtCam.  It's not great by autocad standards but it really blurs the line between cad software and image manipulation software so it's easy for me to use being a photoshop guy.  It's able to take all the installed system fonts right into vector (unsure if all cad software does this, assume they do) and after that I just cut it apart and add some more lines to give it the look I want, same as you manipulate a font in photoshop.  Kearning, line spacing, ratios all adjustable.  I set the program to use a 1/4" 60o V bit and cut to a depth of .1" on the outside of my vectors.  The settings for that bit have it making four passes to get to full depth at a cut rate of 30 inches per minute.  This gives a super clean edge.  For comparison the panels were cut in two passes at 100 ipm so it's a big slow down. 

Having a CNC machine available completely spoils one, at least it has spoiled me.  I dread cutting things by hand now because, even tho I have good saw boards and can cut a clean line, there is something wonderful about those perfectly machined lines.  I still love my sculptural work but when I'm trying to be exact, well, nothing beats the exactness of that CNC machine.  Plus, it was really something to draw it all out before hand.  I never do that, I just get two or three key measurements in my mind and head out to the garage and build around those.  My builds kinda grow.  This needed to be spot on and it's very important to me that when it is done I can publish cut plans.  Just a different process, its new to me and I'm excited about it.     

For years I've wanted an ICB. But then I played one for the first time recently. Definitely dig this project though. Love the mechanical nature of the machine. :cheers:

Heh, I've heard something to that effect from a few people.  I can't wait till it's playable, and I think Space Base has a few features that will really improve some aspects of gameplay over ICB, but at it's heart it's still a bar and ball game.  This is such a labor of love for me it's all about the process for now. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 08:28:33 pm by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2015, 11:06:17 pm »
Thanks for the detail on how you did the engraving.  I've looked at those rigs that let you copy an image with a router but I can't imagine it would look nearly as nice as what you get with a CNC.


Any opinions on skinning the sides?  MDF for a black paint job (body panels will be black) or a nice wood panel and stain?  I'm leaning towards stain as homage to the inspiration machines. 


If you were serious you would hand scribe a small pattern over and over and over again into the sides using a dremel tool.   ;D

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #150 on: January 17, 2015, 02:58:46 pm »
Thanks for the detail on how you did the engraving.  I've looked at those rigs that let you copy an image with a router but I can't imagine it would look nearly as nice as what you get with a CNC.


Any opinions on skinning the sides?  MDF for a black paint job (body panels will be black) or a nice wood panel and stain?  I'm leaning towards stain as homage to the inspiration machines. 


If you were serious you would hand scribe a small pattern over and over and over again into the sides using a dremel tool.   ;D

HA!  This. +1 This.

 :applaud:


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #151 on: January 17, 2015, 03:10:33 pm »
Seriously tho, paint the sides black, then do a stencil or vinyl sticker set of some geometric lines. Use the same bright green, purple, and a touch of grey as the chick on the playfield art.

That or a nice grey ash wood Formica laminate.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 03:12:53 pm by ChanceKJ »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #152 on: January 21, 2015, 11:53:00 am »

This might sound crazy but, for the sides I'm seeing a metal/grey with rivets look.  So paint it or apply a laminate and then drive in some bolts?

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #153 on: January 21, 2015, 12:20:22 pm »
I really like that idea, fits the artwork theme quite well

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #154 on: January 21, 2015, 12:52:50 pm »

This might sound crazy but, for the sides I'm seeing a metal/grey with rivets look.  So paint it or apply a laminate and then drive in some bolts?


Yeah, I think metal would keep in with the rocket/space theme as well.
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #155 on: January 21, 2015, 03:13:36 pm »
Drill some holes in the side and use actual rivets.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #156 on: January 21, 2015, 03:35:08 pm »
I laminated the sides in some beautiful grained 1/4 oak this weekend.  Haven't stained it yet, still working on the paint job for the body panels.  I like the ideas on the metal panels.  Wonder if I can incorporate the wood into it rather than just covering it.  I'm not opposed to skinning it in metal (and the cost of the MDF sheet to the plywood sheet was negligible) I just don't want to miss out on really capitalizing on the grain I have.  I will play with some designs of doing 1/2 skinned or even doing metal sideart that brings that space look.  I also want to call back to the original cabinets.  Kind of a tightrope design wise but I would love to hear more ideas.  Just know that if there are to be rivets involved on the sides they'll be actual rivets ;)  The same probably can't be said for the CP tho. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #157 on: January 21, 2015, 03:46:39 pm »
Rivets... that's an idea I'll use.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #158 on: January 21, 2015, 05:31:38 pm »
Rivets... that's an idea I'll use.

Dammit, now I need to buy a whole other set of tools  :applaud:
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #159 on: January 21, 2015, 08:34:05 pm »
The paint job isn't complete, after I took this I pulled the PF, CP, and coin door back off then sanded'er down and put on what should be the last coat of black.  Anyway, here is is on the base with the sides done - minus a lot of art, controls, and t-molding this is more or less what we have to work with.  I think it looks great as is (unstained as of now) but if I can find some inspiration I'll do something creative with the sides. 




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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #160 on: January 21, 2015, 08:42:10 pm »


Nice. Nice. NICE!!!!!
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #161 on: January 21, 2015, 08:52:04 pm »
Those sides look great even unstained.  :applaud:

Did you paint the logo by hand?  It looks great.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #162 on: January 21, 2015, 09:19:05 pm »
Looking very good, I've had a rough night of arcade building and it's nice to be able to look at projects like this to stay motivated.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #163 on: January 21, 2015, 10:50:50 pm »
Stain the sides gray, a nice deep shade, age it, then print a copy of that pin up chick and toss her on the sides.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #164 on: January 21, 2015, 11:40:58 pm »
looking amazing  :applaud: - keen to see the finished product
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #165 on: January 22, 2015, 01:35:41 am »

Whatever the hell this is, it looks fantastic (",)


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #166 on: January 22, 2015, 03:34:42 am »

Whatever the hell this is, it looks fantastic (",)


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #167 on: January 22, 2015, 07:15:43 am »
My God this is nice!!! I believed in this project from your very first post, but this is exceeding my expectations! Can you adobt me??

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #168 on: January 22, 2015, 09:36:52 pm »
Thanks!  This weekend is going to be a mess but the weekend after I have blocked out to do the CP with all the parts that I have on hand.  It won't be complete but it should be close enough to test out the ball return and movement mechanics.  Providing everything is copacetic there I'll be able to assemble the second one and ship it up North.  Then IDS can take over the thread for while ;)

@ PBJ - looks like your comment got nuked but I take that as high praise lol

Those sides look great even unstained.  :applaud:

Did you paint the logo by hand?  It looks great.

The logo is just the primer with me rollering the black over the top of the grooves lol.  It's filled in black now that I put on the last two coats (one wouldn't cut it) and will eventually fill in the v-grooves by hand with either silver or a highlight color.  I'm leaning towards silver tho. 

My God this is nice!!! I believed in this project from your very first post, but this is exceeding my expectations! Can you adobt me??

1) Thanks!
2) Are you a 17 yr old girl of Asian heritage who has a birthday coming up in the next few months?  If so PM me details and I'll fax over the paperwork and ship a box with prepaid postage so you can show up at my doorstep. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #169 on: January 22, 2015, 11:39:29 pm »

Whatever the hell this is, it looks fantastic (",)



Ahhh! Very nice indeed! I find it very hard to replicate something that already exists (witness my failed 1/4 scale Space Invaders cab) So I have nothing but  :notworthy: particularly since I guess this isn't a particularly well documented machine (",)


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #170 on: February 06, 2015, 12:02:41 am »
I played Ice Cold Beer for the first time in my life tonight and finally get what all the hubbub is about.  I'm all in for this project.   :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #171 on: February 06, 2015, 10:50:41 am »
Are you going to sell this at retail?  Or through operators with routes?  How do you see this getting out to the public?  Some where I got the idea this was going to be for sale.

It looks neat.  It all seems like the sort of thing that could be expanded on.  Are you going to have "new missions," with new playfields and sounds and vocals?


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #172 on: February 06, 2015, 12:00:27 pm »
Are you going to sell this at retail?  Or through operators with routes?  How do you see this getting out to the public?  Some where I got the idea this was going to be for sale.

It looks neat.  It all seems like the sort of thing that could be expanded on.  Are you going to have "new missions," with new playfields and sounds and vocals?

Step 1:  Working Unit
Step 2:  Release the cut plans, art, schematics, part lists to the community
Step 3:  ? ? ?
Step 4:  Profit

Seriously tho, this is a labor of love, I have no intention of trying to have this be "the next thing".  I have thought about doing a limited run but I have a full time job, everyone else working on this has a full time job, and we are doing it for the fun of the project.  Me, IDS, and Eds1275 are guaranteed one for cost of parts.  We know raw costs what this project is approx. going to run when complete but haven't run the traps on what a run would cost/do to us. 

As far as different modes, art, PFs etc - that's why we're releasing it to the community.  That's your job man.  That said, for the sound, we have enough sound cuts that with some creative programming it's very likely that every game of Space Base played will sound unique from now until the end of time.  Something about a quintillion different sound combinations or something. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #173 on: February 06, 2015, 06:38:37 pm »
CNC machine has arrived and is installed.

This. Is. Awesome. Congrats, Le Chuck! She's a beauty.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #174 on: February 06, 2015, 06:56:27 pm »
Man! I'm so excited by this project, I'm just jumping up and down to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- myself!
Really: On a want-one-myself scale from 1 to 10, this is a ∞!!!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #175 on: February 07, 2015, 05:19:54 pm »
Man! I'm so excited by this project, I'm just jumping up and down to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- myself!

...I don't know if you understand how to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- yourself properly!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #176 on: February 07, 2015, 05:29:41 pm »
Man! I'm so excited by this project, I'm just jumping up and down to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- myself!

...I don't know if you understand how to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- yourself properly!
Depends.   >:D


Scott

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #177 on: February 07, 2015, 05:32:27 pm »
Man! I'm so excited by this project, I'm just jumping up and down to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- myself!

...I don't know if you understand how to not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- yourself properly!
Depends.   >:D

Scott

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #178 on: February 08, 2015, 06:05:20 pm »
Was able to get some more body work knocked out and did the primary construction on the playfield - this is the one that I will pack up and send North next week but dropped it into the build so I could see how it will look once complete. 

 
Detail of ball return on the back side, used some bondo to finish out the funnel I needed to ensure the ball goes down to the ball gate each time.  The next is the PF with vinyl applied and guide holes punched.  Then is was short work with the palm router and a laminate trimmer bit to clean it all up nice and purdy.


Back of the PF, the five sided shape is the back stop of the ball return with guide holes drilled for LEDs.  Also not installed are the switches we'll be using, but the panel slides out and those are an easy install - minus the wiring assache. 

 
Decided to go with silver for the engraved logo, I like it.  Also, used the original sideart as a custom back door piece since I'm reworking the sideart for now. 

 
I'm also still playing with the CPO so I haven't printed that yet, and I need to do a bunch of other detail stuff (custom stickers, warnings, labels, tags etc) but I am just really pleased with how it's looking so far.  Of course, once the electronics are done I'll need to cut out the white from the bezel score area but didn't want to fiddle with that for now. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #179 on: February 08, 2015, 06:09:22 pm »
Looks SWEET, my friend!
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #180 on: February 08, 2015, 06:10:50 pm »
.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:33:25 pm by Louis Tully »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #181 on: February 08, 2015, 06:52:04 pm »
Don't jinx them, bro! It's not working yet!  >:D
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #182 on: February 08, 2015, 08:56:11 pm »
He he heh,  trousers messed... Had to do it, well deserved though....

Nice work sir!!!!!! :applaud:
   

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #183 on: February 08, 2015, 08:58:54 pm »
He he heh,  trousers messed... Had to do it, well deserved though....

Nice work sir!!!!!! :applaud:

I would actually agree that this is trousers-messing worthy.  :cheers:
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #184 on: February 08, 2015, 09:12:42 pm »
He he heh,  trousers messed... Had to do it, well deserved though....

Nice work sir!!!!!! :applaud:

I would actually agree that this is trousers-messing worthy.  :cheers:

+1

And he's a chiver   :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #185 on: February 08, 2015, 09:13:34 pm »
looking amazing so far!

So once again, we find that evil of the past seeps into the present like salad dressing through cheap wax paper, mixing memory and desire.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #186 on: February 08, 2015, 10:12:54 pm »
SUPER clean. :applaud:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #187 on: February 08, 2015, 11:40:51 pm »
Masterfully done  :cheers:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #188 on: February 09, 2015, 03:16:27 am »
That looks amazing  :applaud:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #189 on: February 09, 2015, 03:25:35 am »
So, yeah... best Fullsize Dedicated of 2015.
+1
I don't see anyone topping this.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 03:27:35 am by johnrt »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #190 on: February 09, 2015, 04:04:34 am »
So, yeah... best Fullsize Dedicated of 2015.
+1
I don't see anyone topping this.
Just to play devil's advocate and reiterate the jinx aspect... someone could top it by just finishing if this goes the way of some of the greats from years past and doesn't finish this calendar year. But otherwise this project has so much cool stuff it's going to be awesome when it does finish. I really like the mechanical type of games and hadn't thought of them as BYO possibilities before.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #191 on: February 09, 2015, 11:13:31 am »
Thanks guys!  There is a lot left to do but we're more than half way for sure.  Music is in the can, the program works - just needs to be tested with the hardware to sure they work together (may need to bump up to stepper motors once we can start play testing), we're sure to have hiccups making sure that lights are visible where we want them visible, limit switches are in the right place, everything is adjusted so the ball consistently stays on the bar - stuff like that.  My 50m target tho is getting the PF packed up so it doesn't get damaged in transit and sent off because until that PF gets to Canada this project is essentially frozen.  I just had to make sure that it would fit together the way we designed it.  So far it does so we're on to step 2 (which is actually step 35 or something like that ;) )

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #192 on: February 09, 2015, 11:59:07 am »
That looks fantastic.  The wood-grain on the sides looks great with the black front.   :applaud:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #193 on: February 09, 2015, 01:56:04 pm »
Nice route.  Always wanted a cnc...

  Been having some rough times lately,  but thought id offer a little more advice before its regrettable.

 The bar hinge mounts you have are not as robust as the originals.. and I suspect they wont hold up too well for duration of use.

 See if you can get someone to send closeups of the mounts.   

 Even the originals had their weak points.  I had to rebuild my assembly.  I was fortunate to find a hobby shop that sold the thin walled tubing that matched the original spec.  I drilled the holes, and then injected some hot glued into the tubes ends to keep them still so they wouldnt bend/flex/loosen. .. and while hot, inserted the mounts in place.

 The tube thickness is important.  Too.thick... and there will be a drop off and or hop point... where one bar meets the next.  You cant have a sticky spot on a game like this.. as it will throw off the much needed, and quite critical, gameplay control.

 I ended up using brass, cause I thought it looked great... and was a better match for the look of a bar themed game.   However,  after considering it more after the fact... I was thinking that the original tube may have better durability and less friction, with long term use.  I think I at least clear coat sprayed them lightly after polishing them.

 I wondering if a 3 tube / bar  system wouldnt be a better idea. A system to lock the main bar in center would be needed.

 As for the surface and hole internals... you want these glass smooth.  Any surface friction will ruin gameplay.. as the ball may get slowed or stuck.  Dust often was the cause... and it was so badly effecting gameplay, that I had to take the entire machine apart,  cleaning every surface... including the ball routing trails.

 Probably want to use a laminate, and or a plexi covering. The holes will probably need plastic tube inserts... else the ball will wear them quite quickly... especially if using mdf.  Plastic will also be easier to clean.

 Dont merely rely on paint.  Balls rolling over a painted and.or even a lightly clearcoated surface... will still tear it apart quickly.   On pinballs,  the longest lasting machines playfields have a clear mylar film glued on them.

 Remember... mechanics are brutal.  Friction, wear, mass, collisions... all a factor.  Enough smahing... and things get loose.  Loose parts cause misalignment. .. which causes grinding wear... which escalates quickly into permanent functionality problems.

I just now caught this post - there are some pretty good recommendations here so I'll address most of this as it might be of interest to somebody doing the same later on. 

The PF is primed, painted, and vinyl'd.  The vinyl does have a protective covering but we'll have to see how that lasts.  Doing an a clear acetate overlay might be required but I'll wait and see how it stands up.  The holes are all painted and the score holes are sanded out very well but are just MDF and paint.  If I can find a right pipe with the proper ID it might be worth doing an insert so that's a good idea.  The out holes are large enough that I don't anticipate an issue. 

I used hot glue on the ball stops since they aren't internally threaded, the bars are steel tube and the larger of the two goes right to the stop of the smaller to minimize the step down, and to minimize that further I ground it down to a beveled ramp.  The attachment points to the linear bearings is a concern, I looked at small machinist rod ends and if the rods don't hold up I'll go that way as well.  I didn't because - although there are forces on these parts - I anticipate them to be below the reasonable wear point of the equipment, and the cost saved if worth the potential hassle of replacement.  If I built it out for commercial application I'd make similar decisions but lean towards being more robust. 

Again, this is prototype and once we can playtest if I need to make adjustments I can.  One thing that I've read is problematic on ZP and ICB is the chutes and scoring system.  We've eliminated the chutes entirely and the scoring system is magnetic non contact but requires more testing.  Providing that works we'll have take care of major wear out issues of the original.  Still have to replace drive bands from time to time tho. 

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #194 on: February 10, 2015, 07:11:51 am »
 :notworthy:

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #195 on: February 10, 2015, 10:23:47 am »
Wow, just wow! You did a great job on this so far. Can't wait to see it working!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #196 on: February 10, 2015, 11:38:18 pm »
You will be hard pressed to find a set of tubing of a specific material with the desired IDs without compromising.

I needed clear tubing so I attempted to get a set of tubes with the right ID. I could find one tube that matched, two if I wanted "good enough" but not three sizes without making compromises I didn't want to make. Worse, the plastic tubes I selected cracked under the slightest awkward pressure.  Straight flush cuts by hand isn't my idea of calming.

One compromise would be to find tubes of any material for the lining, mix and match materials as it were. Might have more luck finding tubes of the right ID than I did. I couldn't make that compromise myself.

I sound like X when I say this, but I have alternative ideas that might do the trick.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #197 on: February 11, 2015, 07:36:53 am »
You will be hard pressed to find a set of tubing of a specific material with the desired IDs without compromising.

I needed clear tubing so I attempted to get a set of tubes with the right ID. I could find one tube that matched, two if I wanted "good enough" but not three sizes without making compromises I didn't want to make. Worse, the plastic tubes I selected cracked under the slightest awkward pressure.  Straight flush cuts by hand isn't my idea of calming.

One compromise would be to find tubes of any material for the lining, mix and match materials as it were. Might have more luck finding tubes of the right ID than I did. I couldn't make that compromise myself.

I sound like X when I say this, but I have alternative ideas that might do the trick.

Actually I've already researched this and it's very easy since I don't have to worry about light transmission I can just use metals.
.64" ID non ferrous aluminum pipe for the score holes at ~$2/ft  That's aluminum only because I need to use the magnasphere switches in the score holes and don't want interference. 

tons of other IDs in steel to get me within a 1/1000th of an inch to what I require I don't know why I would bother to pipe the outholes tho since they are so much larger than the ball the chances of them sticking are slim; however, if I decided to I could get the whole board done for about $35 more - which is more cost than I'm currently willing to sink into those holes.  It would be a simple matter of updating the hole diameters on my g-code, using a cut wheel on my miter saw and a block stop to get them down to the right depth, and epoxying them into the slots. 

Rather than be all cloak and dagger you could just open up your thread again and actually start posting some pics and stuff in it about your ICB styled adventure.  I don't have the best ideas in town - that's why this thread is here, to help me get good solutions.  We might be able to help you do the same. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 07:40:03 am by Le Chuck »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #198 on: February 11, 2015, 09:54:03 am »
I haven't posted much because there isn't much to show. I have more broken parts and pieces than anything worth photographing.

Edit: after a bit of consideration, i think you're probably right. I'll make a specific project announcement sometime in the next two weeks or so (however long it takes to get my docs in one place)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 10:45:31 am by SavannahLion »

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #199 on: March 19, 2015, 03:58:54 pm »

Incredibly ambitious and super cool.   :applaud:

It looks like an improvement over the original thematically!!
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #200 on: May 20, 2015, 09:29:07 pm »
Wow!  Been a while since I logged into the BYOAC forums and I find this.  Holy  :censored: ! Good work guys.  Now finish this so I can add yet another build to my list of things wanted.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #201 on: May 28, 2016, 10:49:14 am »
Hi,
amazing job !!!
there is some news about this project ?
is it possible to have/buy some cnc plan?
I'm new in this forum i can't PM the author.

if he/you read me, i'will be glad to read you.


best regards

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #202 on: May 28, 2016, 02:59:23 pm »
Welcome aboard, Shushy18.   ;D

Your PMs should be working now.   :cheers:


Scott

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #203 on: July 24, 2016, 06:56:28 pm »
Hey Le Chuck, IDS, and eds1275,

We're years late to the party, but a gaggle of us on Pinside have only recently discovered and been inspired by your incredible project and we would love to give a go at building our own based off your pioneering work. You mentioned in the first post of this thread that you were planning to open source the whole thing. Will that still happen?

Some of us have a vague idea of how to move forward, but we're stuck on various issues. For example, how did you guys make the telescoping rod? Did it have to be custom fabricated or were there some off-the-shelf components that you were able to modify into it?

Would love to hear your insight. Thanks, and great work!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #204 on: July 25, 2016, 07:50:15 am »
Hey everyone, I'm glad to see this still has some interest.  It certainly isn't dead but it has been moving slowly for the last year or so.  A lot of life changes for several team members that had to be sorted out before work could resume, myself included!

All that said, I will be getting back into this shortly.  I'll be fabbing up a second playfield (the first is with IDS) and I'll do a step by step build up on that.  I can't put a deadline on anything past that but I'll be starting the playfield in August as soon as I finish the panel I'm building for my boys. 

Once complete everything will go open source, the reason we aren't do releases as we go is because things are still in flux and I personally don't want to put out bad poop, have someone spend money, get ahead of me only to find out it doesn't work as advertised.  Plans, parts lists, music, code, the works.

As it stands now the only truly custom fabricated bits are on the ball the return (which is simple) and the circuit boards (which is supposedly simple for those in the know but might as well be rocket surgery for me).  Everything else is off-the-shelf modded or tooled. 

Regular updates to recommence soon.  Thanks!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #205 on: August 04, 2016, 06:22:51 pm »
I for one am still interested. Just patiently waiting in the corner.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #206 on: May 11, 2018, 11:04:57 pm »
Hi!

Really love the artwork and designs! Seems like you have put alot of work into this project and made it pretty far! Gorgeous!

Was it ever finished?

You mentioned wanting to release the designs as open source once done. Great :) Even if you never finished it, I for one would LOVE LOVE any files, templates, diagrams etc that you produced along the way. Even if never completed it would give one a HUGE head start on making a similar game. Full disclaimer of work in progress understood and accepted :)

Please consider! Thanks in advance!!!

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2018, 06:54:43 pm »
Yes... an update would rock!
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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #208 on: May 19, 2018, 10:20:50 am »
I wrote the music and did some sound effects. Unfortunately since then I got divorced, lost my house/audio studio, got robbed, got really sick and nearly died, went blind in one eye and am currently renting a room in a friend's place "for a month or two" beginning 16 months ago. Things are on the up though, looking at real estate Wednesday and hoping to lock in an offer on a place that's big enough for my audio business and lifestyle (the blindness is pretty crippling, I can't enjoy reading or television, video games with decent graphics. Anything visual just gives me headaches due to my dumb eye straining to focus - but for some reason I am still legal to ride a motorcycle [I CHOOSE NOT TO THOUGH.]) I just play an obscene amount of guitar while I'm not working. It's not all bad. But currently I'm not set up to do anything more than edit audio or work with one of two microphones since most of my belongings are in storage.

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #209 on: May 21, 2018, 05:09:30 pm »
IDS is wrapping up the back end hardware now. There may have been a litany of personal issues on his end as well, and life has decidedly kept me from doing much of anything arcade related for quite some time.

Rest assured, at some point in the future, there will likely be another post by me telling everyone that we'll have something soon.


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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #210 on: May 21, 2018, 05:11:15 pm »
I wrote the music and did some sound effects. Unfortunately since then I got divorced, lost my house/audio studio, got robbed, got really sick and nearly died, went blind in one eye and am currently renting a room in a friend's place "for a month or two" beginning 16 months ago. Things are on the up though, looking at real estate Wednesday and hoping to lock in an offer on a place that's big enough for my audio business and lifestyle (the blindness is pretty crippling, I can't enjoy reading or television, video games with decent graphics. Anything visual just gives me headaches due to my dumb eye straining to focus - but for some reason I am still legal to ride a motorcycle [I CHOOSE NOT TO THOUGH.]) I just play an obscene amount of guitar while I'm not working. It's not all bad. But currently I'm not set up to do anything more than edit audio or work with one of two microphones since most of my belongings are in storage.

Jeeeeeesus. Bro. Wow. My condolences man. Fucksake that's terrible.

eds1275

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #211 on: May 21, 2018, 10:29:44 pm »
Jeeeeeesus. Bro. Wow. My condolences man. Fucksake that's terrible.

Ha thanks luckily I've been on the mend and can laugh at myself. Things are, as I said, looking up.

Mike A

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Re: Space Base - A homebrew ICB/ZP
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2018, 04:03:29 am »
I am glad you can live with a positive outlook. It will make a big difference in the quality of your life.

I am glad you are doing better. The universe kicked you in the balls pretty hard.

  
 

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