Shedtastic - lots of pics

[EightBySix]

Thought I would post progress for my new shed project, in case anyone else is interested. The current shed may not last another winter, and I need a new home for Insert Coffee. The family patience has finally run out with me using the conservatory for hobbies.

I don't really want to keep my electronics in the shed as it stands...


So I came up with a design for a new one, lots of windows, more useable headroom and if I put the door on the other side, I get a bit more room for floor space...


My old shed has hosted it's final project - building windows for the new one...



It's surprising how much a car full of wood balanced near your head focuses your attention on driving gently 
The cost of the timber was my father's day present, so I finally drove up to the timber yard. It took 2 trips. this was the 1st.


Here is the base finished. It's treated wood and I discovered joist hangers to help me join (most) of them together. They weren't quite the fit I needed, but that's what Dremmels are for. 


And floored with some 18mm 'shuttering ply' = cheaper than normal ply. I think its used to board up buildings when windows get broken etc.



The new flagstones represent the extra space I got by moving closer to the hedge and the new fence at the back.



And this is how far I am at the moment. Just finished the 1st wall frame. I'm going to put tongue and groove panelling on it next and paint it (It will be easier to do now than  when it's next to the hedge)


And now I have my 1st worry. Any sort of banging or hammering on the base seems to be amplified, like an acoustic guitar. It could be a problem for me when I'm doing woodwork in there - mainly hand tools which often means hammering and chopping (I use it mainly after the kids have gone to bed, so want to keep noise down). I'm wondering if I should take steps now before I start fixing the walls on. Any ideas? Maybe some sand around the gap under the base (I put it on flagstone 'piers' so it doesn't touch the ground). Or maybe something under the ply to deaden the sound?

[Howard_Casto]

Looks good man.  I always enjoy a good shed.  Word of warning though... unless your climate is very moderate I wouldn't put any electronics in there.  While technically they can handle a range of temperatures, they preserve best if you keep them at room temperature.  Did you hammer the plywood in place or nail it?  If you nailed it take it up, throw some talcum powder on the beams and screw it down with deck screws.  It'll hinder vibration and make things a bit quieter.  That being said your walls are there to absorb vibration... you'll need to put some insulation on the walls.  I'm not familiar with that construction technique... why are the 2x4's for the stud walls assembled on their side?

[EightBySix]

When I say electronics - I mean hobby stuff - components/soldering iron etc. Not an ideal place to keep them, but they are all in sealed plastic boxes so I'll see how it goes.

The plywood is screwed down, so yes - I might try your talc trick. Maybe also some of the stuff you put under laminate flooring would have the same effect. It does seem better with the weight of the walls on it as I build.

As for the construction - I dunno. I'm just copying the sheds I've seen for sale and in plans.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah the problem with pre-built sheds though is they cut corners.  I wouldn't be copying them if I could help it.  The lattice sheathing will help with stability so it might not be that much of an issue, but around these parts we nail the studs the other way around, 16 inches on center. 

The main reason for that is it gives your shed much more stability when horizontal stress is applied (wind, someone/thing leaning on a wall, ect).  It has a couple of other benefits as well, including natural insulation.  If you do it the other way around you've got 3 1/2 inches of air between your inner and outer wall.  Believe it or not that's a pretty decent R value... at least for a shed anyway.  Of course if you choose to add additional insulation that cavity gives you a place to put it as well. 

Just some ideas, keep us posted. 

[EightBySix]

Ahhh, I see what you mean now. It was a deliberate choice. It's fairly sheltered horizontally - I wanted the extra strength vertically - I'm possibly going to put a 'green roof' on there at a later date (gravel/soil/plants etc) which will be heavy. Don't plan on insulating it - the absence of draughts through holes will feel like luxury after my old one.

[ChadTower]

I don't think this design adds any vertical strength.  It just subtracts horizontal strength.

What's the square footage?  Are there any permit issues regarding moving it and/or being that close to the fence?  Around here the max unpermitted is 120sqft and I think it's a 6' documented clearance from all property lines.  We can get away with rebuilding old grandfathered structures but only if the structure remains intact during the building process.  As a result you see a lot of falling down sheds/barns still there just in case anyone ever wants to rebuild the thing later on in a place that current code will not permit.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think this design adds any vertical strength.  It just subtracts horizontal strength.

Yeah I wasn't going to say anything, but since someone else already has. 

2x4's on their own tend bend when a load is put on them.  Turning them the more traditional way puts this bow towards the front and back of the wall where you want it, because with cross-bracing you can keep them from bowing and couple that with the over-lapping stud walls at the corner and you've made a very sturdy set of walls where all the load forces are pushing against each other.  The way you've got it the bend force is on the inside and outside of the wall where you can't re-enforce.  It's going to want to bow/break in the center of the wall... or just tip over.  So if anything it's weaker to vertical load... it'll just break on the horizontal. 

Or at least that's how it appears just by looking at what you've posted thus far.  That's why I asked about the construction technique. 

[ChadTower]

Yeah I wasn't going to say anything, but since someone else already has. 

I figured if he really is still at this point he hasn't lost much time and it can still be corrected.  With this method he's going to have to surface mount his wiring making any interior wall surface a real ---smurfette--- to put on.  And he won't have the depth to put the boxes in properly.  Basically the electrical wiring is going to be a real problem all around.  He also won't be able to insulate it properly and he had mentioned wanting to do that for sound purposes.

The box store sheds are garbage and aren't designed to be insulated, wired, etc.  They're designed to be cheap and easy and to hold your trash/lawnmower for about 5 years until the particle board walls rot out at the bottom.  Don't copy those.

[Malenko]

I was reading this and couldn't figure out what the hell you guys were talking about, then I realized how he put the studs in the wall. I guess I just glossed over the pix at first.  Ive never seen a wall built like that before.

[ChadTower]

Probably the most important thing I learned from finishing my gameroom is that you have to plan for the next layer as you're building the first.  The stud layout of 16" OC does matter because the insulation is the right width to fit there.  You want your wiring run/clamped near the back of the stud so you don't accidentally screw a wire with the drywall.  You have to keep track of where the studs are in each step so that you don't have to keep finding them again when you drywall and put on molding.  The products are all designed to fit more or less in one way and if you start deviating from that it just makes unnecessary pain in the behind.  Every time you deviate from the standard methods for convenience you end up paying for it in some odd way in the next layer.

Yes, I made most of those mistakes in one way or another during my project and had to remediate.   

[Vigo]

Kinda curious what the point would be of a green roof on a standard shed would be? I have a hard enough time maintaining a green yard. The green roofs I have seen have all been built into the side of a hill, so you can mow it and put stuff on it without a ladder.

Those windows are looking good, Just gonna pop a sheet of glass in between trim running on the inner perimeter of each panel?

[knave]

I noticed how the walls were framed too. I recognize that it is weaker than a traditional wall frame but for a shed I don't think it will matter much.

In any case it will be hot in there in the summer, reduced by shade etc.

I've drawn up several plans for sheds I wanted to build...never built one until I was given a prefab. Kudo's for you. I would have probably just tried to salvage/remodel the old one. LOL

[ChadTower]

How is the snowfall in that area?  That's a major factor here in structural integrity.  Ours have to stand up to 2-3' of snow on the roof during a storm.

[Howard_Casto]

Ditto unfortunately.  I built mine like a house... it cost more and took more time, but it's been 10+ years and it's still as solid as a rock. 

My general rule of thumb is to never cut corners on something that's going to be outside.  Mother Nature is merciless. 

[ark_ader]

Especially in the UK.  Get yourself a brickie (lots on the dole) and do it properly.  Timber frames are good for dry climates not drippy England. 

[ChadTower]

Timber frame will do just fine so long as it's structurally sound and sealed properly.  Houses here are all built with tinder and our winters are harsh.

I didn't build my shed myself but it's basically a little house as Howard said.  10x12, 16" OC studs, vinyl sided with a shingled roof.  It should last for decades with basic maintenance.  Eventually I'll have to replace the floor because it's on leveling blocks and dirt instead of concrete.  I paid a shed builder to do it and they showed up with the walls and trusses on a flat bed.  They built the base/floor in about an hour, took an hour to get all the walls up, and the roof took another hour.  Those dudes were FAST and said they built about three a day that way.

[pbj]

Did anyone else notice those 2x4s are rotated funny?

[yotsuya]

Did anyone else notice those 2x4s are rotated funny?

 

[Typefighter01]

Looks like EightBySix lives in the UK, so other than the absents of sun and constant drizzle, I doubt he needs to worry about snowfall.

Not advocating it by any means, but his twisted 2 x 4's and tongue and groove paneling is still miles ahead of the 1 x 3's on 24" center, chipboard covered shitters from Home Depot.

If you only framed the one side, then start over and use the lumber from the one wall to frame out windows and doors. If all the walls are up, don't lose a seconds sleep, finish it and enjoy (I don't think they have codes in the UK).
 

[EightBySix]

Well - they're my 2x4s and I'll twist them however I want 

Lots of interesting stuff - I've learned  lot from reading them. At the end of the day - this is just a shed rather than an outbuilding. It's predecessor was made using 1x1 pieces of wood, stapled together and it came with the house 14 years ago so I think I'll be fine.

It's way better than what I could buy with the same budget, and I get a buzz out of making it myself.

It won't have power to it (would have doubled the cost) -  I just use an extension cord from the house when I need a power tool. I kind of like it low tech.

So here is a pic of more incorrect studwork. More to follow tomorrow.


This is what I meant by a green roof by the way. A project for the spring maybe.


P.S. they are 2x3s anyway 

[Typefighter01]

That looks very well done and should suit your needs perfectly.

Lol on the 2 x 3's.

I am following

[Vigo]

Cool, thanks for the clarification on the green roof deal. I was thinking more along the lines of the "hobbit hole" style houses I have seen a few times in my area.

[ChadTower]

If you're going to put that on the roof in a rainy climate then vertical integrity is definitely a concern.  That earth is going to be heavy when it's wet.  Heavier than snow.

You'll want more than an extension cord before long.  The better you get, the more tools in there you have, the more power you'll need.  Maybe you'll never need 220v but you'll definitely feel a lot better eventually if you can keep the bench tools plugged in and not constantly be plugging and unplugging stuff.  And a lot of tools (e.g. air compressor) don't play well with extension cords.

[Howard_Casto]

If nothing else get one of those 4 foot long shop-style power strips and screw it to the wall... power is a must and keeping cords out of the way is paramount for safety. 

[pbj]

Get some pipe and a heavy duty extension cord.  When all your nosy neighbors are asleep, run the cord through the pipe, dig a trench, and bury the pipe in your backyard.  This thing is already rigged to hell and back, might as well go full pbj.

[knave]

If you're going to put that on the roof in a rainy climate then vertical integrity is definitely a concern.  That earth is going to be heavy when it's wet.  Heavier than snow.

You'll want more than an extension cord before long.  The better you get, the more tools in there you have, the more power you'll need.  Maybe you'll never need 220v but you'll definitely feel a lot better eventually if you can keep the bench tools plugged in and not constantly be plugging and unplugging stuff.  And a lot of tools (e.g. air compressor) don't play well with extension cords.

In the UK isn't all power (from the wall) 220?

[ChadTower]

In the UK isn't all power (from the wall) 220?

Fair point, it could be.  I've never used a large power tool in the UK. 

That would make a long extension cord to the shed really expensive.

[DaOld Man]

Looking good.
I enjoyed building my shed (12' X 16'). Looking back I wished I have made it 16' X 20', and that probably would still not been enough room!
I did pay an additional 500 shucks to have a professional pour a concrete floor for me, and I have never regretted that!
One suggestion I can make on your shed is that you bore a couple of 1/2" holes in each square section of the floor beams, around the exposed area of the beams.
This will allow air from outside to get into the space under your floor to keep down moisture and thusly mold growth. You may want to tack some screen wire over the holes to keep out bugs, but the bugs will probably find a way in anyway.

[Le Chuck]

I like how you 10000 post newbs are giving advice to the op about his future power needs in this hobby and he is unarguably the best hand builder here. I mean, have you looked at his furniture work? The last thing he needs is more power tools.

[Howard_Casto]

I hate to stoke the flames, but building a coffee table and building a permanent, external structure are not the same thing.  For you to equate things that way makes you look like the noob. 

Also there are other craftsmen in this thread tyvm.

[Le Chuck]

It has nothing to do with the construction Howie. It has to do with the chadpert saying the extension cord won't meet his future hobby needs.

I even stated my gripe was about the power. Jeesh crackers, insecure much?

You'll want more than an extension cord before long.  The better you get, the more tools in there you have, the more power you'll need.

[Malenko]

Yeah I read the reply and I was and that deal with power cords how?




EDIT: Re-edit by me, [Easily misunderstood phrase removed. --Scott]. The word that is auto-censored was removed as was Howard's SUPER COMMON nickname. Scott loves Howard! Saint loves Chad!

[Howard_Casto]

Is everyone on this forum [stupid] or something?

Ok someone writes something and mentions two things.  I only chose to respond to one of those things and because it's not the thing that the poster wants me to respond to they get mad?  Here's a pro tip geniuses, don't mention the other thing then!  I can't read your mind. I have no clue how you want me to respond and if it's only acceptable for me to respond in a certain way then why the hell are you posting in a public forum?  Just talk to yourselves like the lunatics you all are!

Now I don't know what every one else's problem is, but I've been pretty much bedfast for the past few weeks, I can only get up for a few minutes at a time and short of a (pointless) trip to the emergency room I have no way to get any relief from the constant pain in my head other than to wait out for my surgery on the 30th. 

So maybe, just maybe you can all get a little bit of bass out of those responses, stop with the name calling (this is your one and ONLY warning, nobody and I mean nobody has the right to make fun of my name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)  And calm down. 

Now I've had it Malenko... I get it, if people don't behave the way you want or respond the way you want you think it's ok to start acting like you are 8.  I won't be bullied, so it ends now. 

[PL1]

In the immortal words of Hedley Lamarr:

Gentlemen, please rest your sphincters.

(Blazing Saddles, 1974)

Just talk to yourselves like the lunatics you all are!

Sometimes those are the best conversations to have.      


Scott

[EightBySix]

Well, rain stopped play today. I folded the thing up so the painted side was upwards and waited for a break in the weather.



When it came, I temporarily screwed the sides together and put a plastic sheet over the top. It was nice to see it taking shape, but less nice to see that I had mode the base too big 

I'll fix that tomorrow, the forecast is dry, and try and get a proper roof on it.

For the record, I prefer hand tools over power tools - I find it relaxing. However... I need lights and the odd power tool / radio / kettle so...

Get some pipe and a heavy duty extension cord.  When all your nosy neighbors are asleep, run the cord through the pipe, dig a trench, and bury the pipe in your backyard.  This thing is already rigged to hell and back, might as well go full pbj.

Exactly this. But don't tell anyone

[Malenko]

Is everyone on this forum mentally retarded or something?

Now I've had it Malenko... I get it, if people don't behave the way you want or respond the way you want you think it's ok to start acting like you are 8.  I won't be bullied, so it ends now.

Hey guy, it was mentioned that Chaddles said the OP would need more power to make use of his shed, Chuckles replied that the guy pretty an expert in using hand tools. I was vexed at your retort.

Note this is the exact same reply with just different language. Perhaps calling the entire forum mentally challenged is also violating the rules.



Back on subject:

Nothing like the weather to mess you up when your on a roll right?  I type this as a wicked pissa of a storm is rolling through. Guess Im stuck inside playing video games!

[EightBySix]

One suggestion I can make on your shed is that you bore a couple of 1/2" holes in each square section of the floor beams, around the exposed area of the beams.

I ended up raising the whole base an inch or so off the ground with quartered paving stones for that very reason, and to keep it from any puddles etc. Putting some sort of wire guard makes sense. It would also help prevent leaves and other crud going underneath - the main cause as it turned out, of the last sheds demise, with a rotten floor.

[ChadTower]

...aaand another thread gets unnecessarily personal and becomes a fight.  Come on, guys, this was a good thread.   

[pbj]

...aaand another thread gets unnecessarily personal and becomes a fight.  Come on, guys, this was a good thread.   

[dkersten]

I must have missed the drama..

While I agree that using proper framing will ensure that the shed lasts longer than 20 or 30 years, if it is tied together well and has a proper roof on it, it should be just fine.  Doesn't sound like he is insulating and wiring it anyway.

When I did my shed, I built it onto the back of the garage, had a slab poured, and then sectioned it into a 5'x10' section with it's own door inside the shed, and a 10'x10' area with the exterior door for storing the yard stuff and a few other items and tools.  The smaller area became the home of my 60 gallon compressor and 2hp dust collection unit.  Everything is piped into the garage, which is my workshop.  The dust collection is controlled with microswitched blast gates that turn on a 220v relay in the shed.  I added lights and of course the 220 for the big machines.  It is framed so I could add insulation to the little room, which I intended to do but never got around to..  The reason I was going to insulate was to keep the noise from the compressor and dust collector down.  I sometimes forget to close the last blast gate before going to bed, and while I can't hear it in the garage or in my house, in the back yard it is like leaving a shop vac on all night, and I am sure my neighbors hate it.

Anyway, every man needs a good shed, so more power to the OP here.  When I was a kid, the shed was my "shop, even though it was only a 10'x10' shed and was uncooled and unheated.  Pretty much got about 2 months a year where I could work in it.  My garage is insulated and heated, which is good in Montana as it gives me 3 seasons per year of comfortable working environment, but summers get a little brutal when it gets into the 90's and 100's outside.  Maybe an AC unit is in my future, although dust is a MAJOR concern with cooling (and the reason I haven't done it yet). 

I am not sure what the drama with the suggestion was all about, but I also would recommend wiring it for power with at least one 20 amp outlet.  But that is usually a pretty big undertaking for anything not connected to the house.