Insert Coffee - Circuit problems

[EightBySix]

Ok, so my sister in law wants rid of the beat up cocktail cabinet that I was storing in her shed.



When I started to plan it's restoration so I could bring it into the house I realised that although mock teak effect may be a design classic from the 80's it wouldn't look right in the house and was unlikely to get head office approval.
Fast forward a little bit, lots of homework reading the posts here, and I have decided to make a MAME machine built into a coffee table. One that would fit right in with the decor. I enjoy woodworking, so it's as much a traditional woodwork project as it is a MAME project.  The idea is to make it impossible to tell that its anything other than a coffee table until it's opened up.

Here's the concept, with one table leaf removed for clarity.

Now this is what I'm wrestling with. To close the table, the control panel needs to be out of the way. These are the options I have come up with, and I'm wondering if the venerable experts on this board have any ideas or suggestions.

1) The whole centre (control panels, screen, the lot) rises up and down into the carcass of the table. This would allow it to be flush with the table surface, and more comfortable to play.

2) Drawers in the side containing the control panel. Worried that might be too low for comfortable play. The drawer front would have to fold down too to get access.

3) The control panel is hinged to the screen panel, so it folds down horizontally. Would have to make sure it locks into the playing position firmly though.

I've got some interesting ideas for speakers and pc but the whole design needs to work around with whatever I decide for the control panel.

Oh, and please will someone talk me out of considering motorising the whole thing, so it opens up and is ready to play at the touch of a hidden button... I cant get the idea out of my head

[saleem]

you could try making the contol panels so they swivel.like up down,like a chute from an high rise tower (you know my meaning?)

i think thats the laundry chute to you americans.

[EightBySix]

Ahh, it's OK - I'm from the UK. Are we talking like a catflap that stays up for playing? That's what I was trying to get at with option 3.

[severdhed]

i think i would hinge the control panel so the front edge drops down into the table.  you could have pins that go in through holes in the sides that you could use to hold it in place when you want to play.

i'd be cautious with the LCD panel, they typically do not have great viewing angles, so i'd lay one down at roughly the position you want to view it from and make sure you can see it..that way you dont build a cab around it and then find out it sucks

[EightBySix]

That would certainly be easiest. Would have to live with the fact that the screen/controls arent flush with the table top though.

Good tip re LCD. I read here that the viewing angle is better from the sides, so was planning to turn it 90 degrees.

[EightBySix]

Kind of like this?


Come to think of it, I could use some kind of mechanism to attach it to the siding panels, so it rises up when you open the table... Hmmm

[drventure]

Awesome idea. I really like where youre going with it.

Couple notes.

I used sewing machine lifts to lift my CP. They work great for the lifting, but aren't terribly attractive and a largish, so I'm not sure you'd be able to camoflage them well with your table design. you might look into normal cabinet slides with a linear actuator. You can get those for <100$ (for a small throw, which is likely all you'd need).

I'd almost say you might be better off fixing  the screen and making the cp sides hinged/sliding so they drop down or slide out for storage somehow. You could easily use drop leaf table hinges for that sort of thing, assuming you could change your design a bit.

About the monitor, Severdhead is right. I've be VERY pleased with the dell 2407 and 2405 lcd's i've used.
Really good viewing angles even from the side or below.

But the newer dells use a different (and cheaper) panel and from what I hear, don't have NEAR the viewing angle of the old ones.

the good thing is, I can usually find the older dells on CL for pretty cheap now.

[EightBySix]

Oooo I knew it was worth reaching out. Mental note: Look out for dell 2407 and 2405 on ebay for spares/repairs 

[Chicken McNobody]

Kind of like this?


Come to think of it, I could use some kind of mechanism to attach it to the siding panels, so it rises up when you open the table... Hmmm

Love this idea!

I think this is what I would go with, I would personally love to have something built like this, but I lack the skill, and truely at this time, the need.  I already have 4 cabinets at this time, I think I have it all covered.

[Yvan256]

Are those images made with Sketchup? 

[EightBySix]

Are those images made with Sketchup? 

Yes they are. It's the first time I have really planned a woodwork project in advance. I'm drooling at some of the other software used for plans here though. Much better for layout and part lists etc it seems.

I'm also wondering if anyone has experience of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Sonic-Impact-Stick-Speaker-SoundPad/dp/B0001HKVKQ

Obviously space (thickness) is an issue for me. I dismissed these as gimmicky, but read the review... This way the speakers could bethe table! (Or at least a thinner panel under the table surface - cups of coffee cant do much for acoustic properties, I reckon)

[severdhed]

i haven't personally used them, but a friend of mine said he had a set once, and they sounded pretty crappy

[orion]

i haven't personally used them, but a friend of mine said he had a set once, and they sounded pretty crappy

Those look really cool though, if they work. They do state in the description that the sound quality depends on the surface you mount them to. I like where this project is going by the way!

[EightBySix]

Ok, I've been spending more time thinking about this than is healthy. I think I found some ways to get the controls to rise up when the table slides open, but there are a couple of issues I just cant get around.

1) The surface has to be steady and strong. Any mechanism will be taking a beating.
2) It will get drinks spilled onto it sometimes. I need a way to keep all the workings safely away.

So I decided to have the CPs in a drawer like this:

(The handle will be flush, for comfort and I'll use magnetic catches to stop it folding when it shouldn't)

This way, I'll be able to cover the whole surface with glass which will give me better coffee proofing. Do you think it looks OK/would work?

Next problem.
I want to make it coin operated, rather than having a credit button. I have this theory with emulators. Games aren't so much fun unless you have something invested in it. In the home computer days, it was 30 mins waiting for a cassette to load, trying to keep noisy brothers out of the room because of some superstitious belief he would stop it loading. In the arcade it was my pocket/dinner money. Flipping between games is great - but for me, it detracts from the game play.
I thought it would be cool if I got a mechanism that gave you 1 credit for 10p, 5 for 50p and so on. I could use it like a piggy bank for the kids... or to fund the next project 
Saw this fancy mech on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250492166443&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
The clever thing can recognise up to 5 coins and send signals appropriately. So far so good. But its a bit bulky to install in the drawer. Has anyone seen something like this, but top loading - or think of a workaround?

Hollow table leg maybe....


 

[leapinlew]

I've wanted to do things with my coffee table, but I keep coming back to the fact that there normally isn't power readily available in the middle of the room. Whats your plan to get power to this?

[EightBySix]

I'm going to embed something like this at the bottom of one leg


But your question relates to the problem of trailing wires across the floor. I'm lucky in that it wont be a problem for me, because the position of the table means the wire wont be in the way.

Really, I suppose there would be no reason why the innards couldnt be a laptop with detatched screen, and run from battery power. Phase II maybe. 

[emphatic]

Really, I suppose there would be no reason why the innards couldnt be a laptop with detatched screen, and run from battery power. Phase II maybe. 

That will perhaps be fun for some short sessions, but what if you have a friend over and you want to credit feed through Metal Slug 2, and the battery dies on you on the final stage. Interesting project, this.

[Yvan256]

Instead of drawers, I would go with vertically folding panels (hinge at the bottom). It would mean a thicker base (how much thicker, I'm not sure), but IMHO I think it would be more sturdy.

Also, good thinking about having the whole thing under a single pane of glass underneath the top table panels. To keep it clean-looking with hidden hardware, I would go with slides under/behind the side panels of the "arcade" part.

[EightBySix]

A good friend of mine who is a fellow arcade game enthusiast got me some components for my birthday.. How nice to have an audience where people understand about getting excited over a bag of buttons :-)

Here's a pic, from within my shed workshop.

I'm so envious of you guys over the pond who have a workshop as big as my living room! My progress on this project will be slow, as I have to get the thing free of lawn mowers and bikes before I can do any work...

Whilst that's been going on, I've had some ideas for the project.

Idea #1
I've been looking for some time for a suitable coin mech that will a)fit and b)recognise the value of the coin and credit accordingly. I stumbled across some youtube vids of people who had made coin sorters. This gave me the final inspiration:


Imagine some switches under where the coins fall, and some electronics to send pulses that mimic 'coin' keypresses and you'll see where I'm going... I have no real electronics experience, but I'm finding out that this hobby seems to be all about learning new skills :-)

Idea #2
The sheet of glass over the screen will have a blank area top and bottom.
+----------+
|   XXXX   |
+----------+
|          |
|          |
|   VDU    |
|          |
|          |
+----------+
|   XXXX   |
+----------+

I'm thinking it might be a good place for administrative buttons etc, but  need to keep it clear for cleaning/spills etc. Then it occured to me - why not have a touch panel behind the glass? There are a few sites that have DIY solutions. While I'm at it, why not make it into the 'front end' with an LED matrix like this:


You could have buttons to cycle the display through available games
It could even have touch sliders for volume etc, like in this example I found:

On a simpler level, I could have icons of my favourite games under the glass that I could just touch to play...

It would be a whole seperate project but possibly do-able.

[saleem]

so why have a coin mech?

you dont even need to have a coin/credit button as you can map a button to be coin/credit button.i am assuming you are going to run mame on this?

and when you say over the pond where are you in uk,as americans do tend to have garages bigger than my pad 

personaly i have gone a bit off the standard pushbuttons and now i tend to find myself drawn to sanwa type.

i mean its your cab but,its like having a caravan and wanting to stick just about every gadget into it as possible when you could get along just fine without.a door to get into the thing would be good but,you dont necessarily have to use a coin mech door.and when you think about it,who is gonna pay to use it,if you and yours will use it more,aint it better to use a credit button at most?

its like (dont get me wrong) you are taking your project way beyond something you wanted to have,you just wanted a coffee table that could open to a mame machine (whatever) now you want coin mehs,touch screen and god knows what else.

are you not going a little too over the top?

[EightBySix]

so why have a coin mech?

For some reason, I like the idea of needing a coin to play - it's as though I've got something invested in it and I get more out of the game. All the ones I can find to buy are the wrong dimensions to fit into a table top.

I take your point about being over the top with the touchscreen though. I'm fascinated by the electronics behind it, but it's something I can leave until the table is otherwise finished (like that's ever going to happen!)

Yes, I'll be running mame - classic games as I have an old toshiba libretto http://www.squit.co.uk/computers/libretto.html. I put a CF - IDE adaptor in it and it boots DOS in 2 seconds (literally!) from a CF card. It's silent now and needs no special cooling.
 The project isnt just for playing games though, I guess some of the fun is in the messing about / configuring etc too.

[saleem]

i can see a touch screen coming in handy for jukebox but,i got touch screen on my fbot mame coversion and trust me,unless you make the buttons big it is realy pretty tricky hitting the thing,i find i gotta keep touching the icon/button more than once to activate.

i got my touchscreen addon with the machine,its just an overlay one so i am lucky but,would have bought it for the project knowing how good/bad it is?no!

if you go touch screen i think a lot will say that you need something real good,i can go through windows without mouse,use gameex frontend without mouse and trust me,its iffy.
 

[EightBySix]

Thanks for the advice, saleem, esp since you have experience of them  . I think this idea needs to go in the save for later pile...

[drventure]

That multi coin acceptor is pretty cool. Any idea how you interface with it. They say pulses, so, i'm guessing, you set it for coin A to register 5 pulses, and coin b to register 10 pulses maybe?

Or am I way off?

[EightBySix]

That's how I understood it too. You can also adjust the delay between pulses.

[Yvan256]

I put a CF - IDE adaptor in it and it boots DOS in 2 seconds (literally!) from a CF card. It's silent now and needs no special cooling.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one using CF cards in IDE adapters and running the DOS version of MAME. 

[EightBySix]

I put a CF - IDE adaptor in it and it boots DOS in 2 seconds (literally!) from a CF card. It's silent now and needs no special cooling.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one using CF cards in IDE adapters and running the DOS version of MAME. 

Dont suppose you use a DOS front end too do you? I've not found many...

[Yvan256]

Dont suppose you use a DOS front end too do you? I've not found many...

I'm currently checking AdvanceMENU and AdvanceMAME... there's a LOT of options between the two. But given my low hardware specs and the lack of a good video connection or LCD resolution, it's that or practically nothing.

[BobA]

Dont suppose you use a DOS front end too do you? I've not found many...

ArcadeOS and Gamelauncher were really good DOS based front ends.

[EightBySix]

Yes, I'm using GameLauncher myself, quite impressed with it. I might just get it to boot into the last run game though.

[emphatic]

I'm using AdvanceMenu with great results on my small MAME-rig running AdvanceMAME 0.104 or whatever the last stable one was. You can even do a skin for it and have .mng files instead of .png for your previews really makes everything look awesome. My configuration is setup for an arcade monitor and I select games with fire1, and if I press fire2 the menu rotates 90 degrees with each press so it's perfect for me as I have several cabs with both vertically and horizontally mounted screens.

[BobtheAddict]

Looks like a pretty cool concept! 

[ale8oneboy]

I'm going to embed something like this at the bottom of one leg


But your question relates to the problem of trailing wires across the floor. I'm lucky in that it wont be a problem for me, because the position of the table means the wire wont be in the way.

Really, I suppose there would be no reason why the innards couldnt be a laptop with detatched screen, and run from battery power. Phase II maybe. 

Hey where did you find these?

[Silas (son of Silas)]

£2.78 each from Maplin. I bought one for my arcade. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=218978

[EightBySix]

Rather than smoke/grey coloured glass, has anyone used white/frosted glass?

I'd be surprised if the screen would be visible, but thought I would ask. Would look odd in a cab of course, but I think it would look better in my project.

e.g.


I think you can get frosted glass spray - so I might try an experiment with my regular vdu. (on a sheet of glass - not the monitor  )

Progress wise.... none I'm afraid - unless you count my new baby daughter 
Also, I've decided I need to make a new workbench before I start this project. No point in spoiling it due to crappy tools!

[drventure]

First, about frosted glass. I'm guessing it'd fuzz the view too much. Now, a dark smoked glass would probably work ok. the screen would be dimmed a bit, but when off, the table top would look dark, and you could probably crank the brightness to compensate somewhat.

About the coin mech, touch screen etc. Do what you want man! It's a hobby, not some sprint-to-the-finish work project where you have bean counters and pointy haired bosses breathing down your neck to get something done fast, cheap, and just "good enough".

Personally, I can completely dig your concept of being "invested" in the game. Coin buttons take some of that away, no doubt.

I've had the most fun with my cab doing the (almost) completely useless side projects (building brass panel lamps from door stops?!, converting an antique steam pressure gauge to read CPU utilization!?). That's what makes it fun!

If what +YOU+ want is to just put something together to play games, so be it, but if you want to do more, I say go for it, whatever the hell it is.

Really looking forward to your progress on this one!

[emphatic]

There's a special glass that when a current runs through it, get frosted, then when you run a differnent current through it it turns clear. That would be kinda awesome for your project. I'm off to Google it now.

Edit:
http://innovativeglasscorp.com/default.htm
or
http://www.spd-systems.com/Main%20Page.html

[javeryh]

I'm drawing a blank on the name but there's a bar in the city I've been to a few times and the bathroom doors are made completely out of that stuff.  If no one is inside you see right in - toilet and all - but when you shut the door and turn on the light the glass frosts up - but you can still see out!  It's pretty funny taking a leak in front of several hundred people that you can see...

[Nacimroc]

That glass is called electro Chromatic glass! It used to be amazing expensive, but its come down in price and would easily be affordable for 1 piece! Once the power is flicked for a second it changes state and stays that way until the power is passed through again! So no need for a power cable to be constantly plugged in!

I'm going to embed something like this at the bottom of one leg


But your question relates to the problem of trailing wires across the floor. I'm lucky in that it wont be a problem for me, because the position of the table means the wire wont be in the way.

Really, I suppose there would be no reason why the innards couldnt be a laptop with detatched screen, and run from battery power. Phase II maybe. 

I dont trust these things not to pull out if the cord gets pulled from any angle but straight exposing live wires! I'd prefer the power supply entry things with 2 screws holding them!

Just my 2 cents!

[EightBySix]

I never noticed it didnt have any means of screwing it in - you're quite right.
I'll try to use something similar, but more secure looking.