What would it take to create Mame Hardware..?

[Locke141]

.... Andy/Ultimarc is an upright outstanding member of this community who bends over backwards to do right by his customers.

+1
Andy is a good guy.

I like the these kind of discussions. They makes me wish I was in a more reasonable time zone so I could better participate.

The R-pi is great at some things and the ported front ends are getting batter and better. Nitrogen_widget did a lot of the work to get Attract mode (a Mala like FE but open and still under active development) running on the Pi. He also made a cool build that runs a stripped down version of linux, Attract mode, has the IO pins mapped for joy sticks/buttons, and after putting the image on a SD card its largely plug and play, You just need to add roms. Even his great build is not perfect, the R-pi runs older versions of Mame and it lacks the power needed in many instances.

I always tell my students the the enemy of Great work is Perfect work. Handing in a B+ paper is better then never handing in an A+ paper because its not ready yet. A stripped down PC running a purposed built Linux would take a lot of the work out of doing your own setup. You could probably use a J pack and get 90% of what your looking for. 

From mgb's cocktail

[Locke141]

I think the main reason you don't see a decent card like this made is the MAME license -

Mame is changing the license to open source.

MAME is going open source
20 May 2015
After lot of years being under MAME own license (prohibiting any commercial use) and therefore not open source, we are finally moving towards becoming officially open source project. Idea is to keep core under BSD3 license and rest is up to developers that created code (drivers and devices emulation). (options are BSD3, LGPL2 or GPL2)

Hopefully this will bring more new developers to MAME project and give more life to project itself.

Please note that MAME trademark is still valid the "MAME" name and MAME logo may not be used without first obtaining permission of the trademark holder.

If you have contributed in past and we still did not contact you please contact us at mamedev@mamedev.org.

http://mamedev.org/?p=405

[dmckean]

I think that important parts like CPU cores/sound cores/etc.. is already mostly open source.

As far as dedicated hardware though, it seems like it would be a lot of work when there's already a lot of powerful miniaturized PC hardware out there like the NUX, Chromebox, Zbox, and others.

[yotsuya]

I still wish that OpenJAMMA board would have come to fruition. I would have loved to have seen what it could do.

[Generic Eric]

So this post is more just for creative discussion. I personally have no knowledge about what it takes to create this. Ive recently been exploring the best, and most fail safe systems for mame cabinets.. Whether PC, Linux, rasberry pi, or other methods.. Which then led me to think... What would it take to creat a motherboard of some sort, that simply ran mame? or had the hardware to configure a front end, and have it provide the mame frame work. Meaning.. No more pc, no more windows.. Just a piece of hardware (motherboard, chip, something) that would simply be a platform to run mame? The arcade vga got me thinking about it. Im amazed someone has the know how to create a video card just for mame builds. What would be the pros? what would be the cons? Is there a definitive answer such as "you wouldnt be able to update as frequently as software".. or is it more the massive investment of time and money?  Im interested in any types of discussion. Its an interesting topic...I just imagine a beautiful motherboard, with every port and input you could use.. perhaps built in video card for arcades? various video outs.. No more windows crashes, boot logo changing. Again, im interested in the general topic as a whole.. im not trying to come off as a "why the hell didnt any lazy idiot do this yet".. because i sure cant. praise to you geniuses who help me every day

ps.. im pretty sure im about to get ten links.. 5 being 10 page threads about this.. 5 being links to half assed emulation hardware already out..

I think the most appropriate way to answer this is with an analogy.  I tried to think of an acronym but couldn't.  I don't have time to work in paint, so let me paint you a word picture....

So this is about risk, time, and money.  Similar to the fast, cheap, expensive parable.

Anyway, you have to find someone to take the risk, spend their time, for your money.   

Now that we have that out of the way, we can talk about what it would look like.

Small.  But there would be different versions.  One that outputted HDMI, one that outputted to Desktop monitors, one that outputted to analog.

Controls are broken out via USB.  USB boards can connect to various wiring terminals or to jamma fingerboards.  2 way, 4 way, 8 way, spinner trackball, lightgun, you name it.  It magically works.

These next features call out the inherent incompatibilities of the games.  Not all games do the following, or do them the same.

High score  - leaderboards
Netplay

Maintenance controls:
Service switch, Dipswitches, interlock switches, interlock bypasses.  Maintenance Terminal.  My advice would that the "MAME board" have an interface that I could remote into.  Upload roms, change settings, add/remove credits.

I feel like a grumpy cat picture is in order.  I made a MAME machine once, it was horrible.  Too many things going on at once.  Its not nearly as intuitive as I wanted it to be.  I took me a long time to realize I was doing too much on the one machine.  It was like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with ALL of the jellies.  And Jams.  Story time:

I made a PBJ with 3 jellies, and sliced cheese. It was horrible.

But before you make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you must first create universe.  Just don't create a universal PBJ; too much going on.  Break it up by controller type.  Or orientation!  I played a qix in vertical, and it changed my life!  I don't think one arcade machine is the answer to anyones question. 

This is fun, as a thought exercise.  I'm not going to go too far out on a limb, I don't think it is a red herring.  I also don't think it is easy. 

It is an unconsensusable thing.  Someone is going to disagree with a decision or an omission of either a rom or controller type.  During a dev cycle, a new coding style will come out.  So the challenge is then, what choices would you make?  Would it play eyes, LA Guns, Mortal Kombat 9 and Qix? All on the same control panel?  Friends don't let friends build frankenpanels.

I've loaded coin ops, I've tried emulators on the ouya.  I have a RasPi and the image, and a USB controller.  Just no HDMI monitor.  The adapter I bought sucks.  I've tried the shortcuts and I haven't played a MAME game this year. 

I think that is 2 cents, a pound and a wooden nickel.

TL;DR

All your memories <-- Video out <-- Magic mame board <-- Input breakout board to include coin switch <-- Coin mech <-- Spare change

[dmckean]

Would it play eyes, LA Guns, Mortal Kombat 9 and Qix? All on the same control panel?  Friends don't let friends build frankenpanels.

When I read that it reminded me of this.

[yotsuya]

Would it play eyes, LA Guns, Mortal Kombat 9 and Qix? All on the same control panel?  Friends don't let friends build frankenpanels.

When I read that it reminded me of this.

I was greatly inspired by your photo.

[yotsuya]

But on a serious note, ^^^ is what serious arcade collectors think of when they hear MAME. It's unfortunate, but it's the perception.

[dmckean]

But on a serious note, ^^^ is what serious arcade collectors think of when they hear MAME. It's unfortunate, but it's the perception.

I don't really blame them. That's a classic cab in great shape and I'm sure he tore out everything arcade and butchered the insides to make that. We have a lot of great projects here... but even here I think a lot of newbie projects wouldn't turn out much better than this if it weren't for the prodding by more experienced members.

[yotsuya]

But on a serious note, ^^^ is what serious arcade collectors think of when they hear MAME. It's unfortunate, but it's the perception.

I don't really blame them. That's a classic cab in great shape and I'm sure he tore out everything arcade and butchered the insides to make that. We have a lot of great projects here... but even here I think a lot of newbie projects wouldn't turn out much better than this if it weren't for the prodding by more experienced members.

Thanks for recognizing the motives of many of us old-timers here.... 

[Generic Eric]

Would it play eyes, LA Guns, Mortal Kombat 9 and Qix? All on the same control panel?  Friends don't let friends build frankenpanels.

When I read that it reminded me of this.

Does that monitor rotate? 

[Vigo]

No, but that is the most badass coin door solution I have ever seen.

[mgb]

My son and I are playing on some simple plug and play hardware tonight. 

Of course that tv doesn't have g-sync but it does have 4 play heads and FM 

[mgb]

.... Andy/Ultimarc is an upright outstanding member of this community who bends over backwards to do right by his customers.

+1
Andy is a good guy.

I like the these kind of discussions. They makes me wish I was in a more reasonable time zone so I could better participate.

The R-pi is great at some things and the ported front ends are getting batter and better. Nitrogen_widget did a lot of the work to get Attract mode (a Mala like FE but open and still under active development) running on the Pi. He also made a cool build that runs a stripped down version of linux, Attract mode, has the IO pins mapped for joy sticks/buttons, and after putting the image on a SD card its largely plug and play, You just need to add roms. Even his great build is not perfect, the R-pi runs older versions of Mame and it lacks the power needed in many instances.

I always tell my students the the enemy of Great work is Perfect work. Handing in a B+ paper is better then never handing in an A+ paper because its not ready yet. A stripped down PC running a purposed built Linux would take a lot of the work out of doing your own setup. You could probably use a J pack and get 90% of what your looking for. 

From mgb's cocktail

Currently it seems that the pi is about the closest thing to plug and play hardware but it just doesn't seem to be there quite yet but some great people are working on it.
I still love the power of a windows 7 machine running as light as possible.

In that pic that you posted, I'm taking the mobo from my duo core laptop with Windows 7. I'm gonna do a clean install on an ssd for fast boot up and then an hdd off the ide port that normally connects the optical drive. this will be done with an ide to sata adaptor.
I'm gonna strip the os down as light as possible and do

[Locke141]

Currently it seems that the pi is about the closest thing to plug and play hardware but it just doesn't seem to be there quite yet but some great people are working on it.
I still love the power of a windows 7 machine running as light as possible.

In that pic that you posted, I'm taking the mobo from my duo core laptop with Windows 7. I'm gonna do a clean install on an ssd for fast boot up and then an hdd off the ide port that normally connects the optical drive. this will be done with an ide to sata adaptor.
I'm gonna strip the os down as light as possible and do

It sound like one to watch.   

Yea, the Pi has it's place and I'm excited to see how far people can push it. I think all things in one is imposable to get right. Modular is usually the way to go and PC are the best all around bace platform for it.

I think if there was an R-pi to Jemma adapter, an OS distort that includes a bunch of open game engines an tools to make arcade games (think Open BOR) pared with a dedicated repository that required all games to use the same button lay out to be included. Then there could be a lot of people making cool fun games that we all know we could run on our arcades.     

[Yenome]

.... Andy/Ultimarc is an upright outstanding member of this community who bends over backwards to do right by his customers.

+1
Andy is a good guy.

I like the these kind of discussions. They makes me wish I was in a more reasonable time zone so I could better participate.

The R-pi is great at some things and the ported front ends are getting batter and better. Nitrogen_widget did a lot of the work to get Attract mode (a Mala like FE but open and still under active development) running on the Pi. He also made a cool build that runs a stripped down version of linux, Attract mode, has the IO pins mapped for joy sticks/buttons, and after putting the image on a SD card its largely plug and play, You just need to add roms. Even his great build is not perfect, the R-pi runs older versions of Mame and it lacks the power needed in many instances.

I always tell my students the the enemy of Great work is Perfect work. Handing in a B+ paper is better then never handing in an A+ paper because its not ready yet. A stripped down PC running a purposed built Linux would take a lot of the work out of doing your own setup. You could probably use a J pack and get 90% of what your looking for. 

From mgb's cocktail

Currently it seems that the pi is about the closest thing to plug and play hardware but it just doesn't seem to be there quite yet but some great people are working on it.
I still love the power of a windows 7 machine running as light as possible.

In that pic that you posted, I'm taking the mobo from my duo core laptop with Windows 7. I'm gonna do a clean install on an ssd for fast boot up and then an hdd off the ide port that normally connects the optical drive. this will be done with an ide to sata adaptor.
I'm gonna strip the os down as light as possible and do

There is a website with a list of the windows 7 services you can turn off. im sure alot more can be turned off for a straight mame system. if a virtual system would behave the same i would set one up and start turning off all services except what windows forces to be left on. then work from there to get a running system for mame. i know one service stops the video from working. least it did before in my trials.

[Generic Eric]

Blackviper?

[ark_ader]

Just get a Xbox and CoinOPS for $10.  Why are we over thinking this crap?

[Yenome]

Blackviper?

That would be the one.

Just get a Xbox and CoinOPS for $10.  Why are we over thinking this crap?

Because its fun plus xbox and coinops is not using the latest mame so lots of games missing or xbox cant run. forget what coinops i have on my xbox ATM. think its 6 with r16 or soemthing

[dkersten]

I can see where the OP is coming from on this, but while it is impractical and not something you could ever really make money doing, it would be a nifty device.

The point of it, however, would be for people who don't want to have to learn how to set up a PC, set up mame, set up a FE, and get it all to work smoothly together. 

So take this to a different level:  Make a device that plugs into an existing PC that contains a fully configured FE, a custom open source build of Mame, storage space where you can drop ROMs into yourself (this would be the sticky part), and have the FE be able to read (on initialization) the list of ROMs and then set up the FE menus accordingly.  Integrated into this would be a full 4 player capable keyboard encoder, enough optical inputs to support a spinner and trackball (or two spinners, etc.), some analog inputs for things like pedals or yokes, and a couple USB slots for guns or alternate game controllers.  Make it bulletproof:  the idea is you buy this, plug it in to your PC, connect your buttons and joysticks and the such to the inputs, and have a fully functioning arcade without the hundreds or more hours required to set up the software. 

Sure, it is not perfect, wouldn't fit everyone's needs, but for many it would be a godsend. 

My brother, for example, plays his arcade cab more than I do by 100 times.  He has no desire to play with the software, customize his cab, or do anything technical with it.  He just wants to play it.  If he hadn't had someone like me to put the pieces together and do the work to get it all running well, he never would have bothered.  There is nothing overly complicated about it and their autistic son plays all the time.  The worst thing that happened was their son turned the monitor off once by reaching into the cab.  He was taught to turn off the monitor after using a computer, so he did that and it caused some confusion because the game didn't wake up when they pressed the buttons.  Aside from that, it has just worked, and that is what they wanted.  Come up with a device that takes out 99% of the technical aspect and have it where you can either plug in prebuilt controls or still be able to build your own control panels and cab but don't have to mess with software, and you have a device that would be appealing to quite a few people.

There is a massive difference between building a cab and a CP and setting up a PC, Mame, a decent FE, downloading ROMs, and getting it all configured to work well as one cohesive unit.  The building part is more about workshop skills.  The wiring is fairly rudimentary, the woodworking side is pretty basic, and even artwork is something that can be tackled in a variety of ways (including sourcing it out).  But when it comes to software, all we can offer is advice here and the person is on their own.  If someone could combine the arcade specific hardware with all the requisite software and make it plug and play, it would be a viable product.

[Jakobud]

I think a good middle-ground approach would be a pre-built software solution:

For example a plug-and-play Raspberry Pi SD Card image. Just have a full OS and Mame and frontend and everything all setup on the SD Card Image (and maybe roms too.......... ). So people would just need to install the image onto their own SD Card, turn on their Raspberry Pi and it's up and running.

Wasn't there a similar Mame CD ISO you could do a long time ago? Never tried it but I heard it worked well.

[Generic Eric]

There is a massive difference between building a cab and a CP and setting up a PC, Mame, a decent FE, downloading ROMs, and getting it all configured to work well as one cohesive unit. 

I do not do at least one of those.  I hope to cross out decent FE off my list this fall, getting to work by this winter. 

[yotsuya]

So people would just need to install the image onto their own SD Card, turn on their Raspberry Pi and it's up and running.

Who's going to teach Joe Six-Pack how to install an image on an SD Card? 

I'd love to see a standard Mini-ITX motherboard with the J-PAC-style interface built in, including the JAMMA interface/edge connector. If those two components could be combined, I'd be totally happy.

[Le Chuck]

I think a good middle-ground approach would be a pre-built software solution:

For example a plug-and-play Raspberry Pi SD Card image. Just have a full OS and Mame and frontend and everything all setup on the SD Card Image (and maybe roms too.......... ). So people would just need to install the image onto their own SD Card, turn on their Raspberry Pi and it's up and running.

Wasn't there a similar Mame CD ISO you could do a long time ago? Never tried it but I heard it worked well.

There's a live cd build running around here somewhere where all you have to do is drop in the disc on startup then point it at your roms and you're off to the races.  Don't think it is actively supported anymore. 

I'm not sure what sort of FE was packaged with it but something like that might be worth another look, especially with boot from USB being so easy now. 

[Yenome]

how bout just make mini itx builds with the os and fe all ready setup just plug it in and turn on. add some roms and away you go. could use free linux to keep cost down. i see if people are willing to pay 1500 or more just for an empty cab why not 300 on the brains. heck after you build the first one and get it all working just image the drive and you got a quick auto setup for the rest of the systems. course all the hardware would be the same on ea system. then the image file would work without a problem

[rCadeGaming]

There is a website with a list of the windows 7 services you can turn off.

Do you have a link for that?

[eds1275]

How many good topics will have to turn bad like this one?

I know, the main thread gets completely derailed. And it's every time he posts.

[Yenome]

There is a website with a list of the windows 7 services you can turn off.

Do you have a link for that?

http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-7-service-pack-1-service-configurations/

Here it is. I had setup a virtual pc to see all what could be shutoff and still get it to work but alas virtualbox didnt work for gfx.

[rCadeGaming]

Nice, thanks.   

[Yenome]

Nice, thanks.   

Np in my playing with it on my own without using vipers list. something i turned off made the pc boot to the desktop slow. something to do with im guessing a service windows wants running that i turned off.

[paigeoliver]

#1. Pi is awful, doesn't have enough power, the software is antiquated and totally unoptimized. Basically you are getting the equivalent of the mame version from 1998 on the hardware from 1996. The pi 2 upgrades that hardware to 1997 standards. (Mame doesn't use the multiple cores and Arm mame is 2-5 times slower than x86 mame for the same clock speed processor.

#2. The Mame license isn't a law. The mame license wouldn't hold up in court. There is no central authority to license the code from, nor is there any central authority to enforce the copyright. There isn't even any clear definition of who owns what code, and when push came to shove it is unlikely any devs would show up to defend their code since much of it (unfortunately) couldn't have been developed without breaking US laws.

#3. The 60 in 1 is the worlds most common arcade game and has more than surpassed Ms. Pac-Man in total production. It runs an ancient version of Mame on Linux straight out, and none of the devs have done a damn thing about it. Nor will they about your project.

#4. Chinese bootleggers have been selling Intel/Windows based mame multiboards for almost a decade now. They work fine. You never see them because everyone churning out a multigame is more concerned with ripping people off for maximum profit than they are about anything working decently.

#5. Any used computer you can find in the garbage and one of the big 2 encoders is all you need. If you can't figure out how to use that then the hobby does not need you.

#6. We do not need another brain dead plug and play solution so every petty criminal goomba can ruin more dedicated cabinets ripping people off on craigslist.Half the games in the world have already been converted to 60 in 1, we don't need the other half to be converted to turbocrapmame.

[mgb]

...
#6. We do not need another brain dead plug and play solution so every petty criminal goomba can ruin more dedicated cabinets ripping people off on craigslist.Half the games in the world have already been converted to 60 in 1, we don't need the other half to be converted to turbocrapmame.

Very good point