Nintendo's Revolution Controller REVEALED!!!!(UPDATED)

[Scott84]

Hey Guys,

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

Im confuzed and excited at the same time!

UPDATE: here is a shot of the WHOLE controller!

[somunny]

 

If this is the real deal, Nintendo has proven that they can both blow and suck simultaneously (and in a multitude of colors).

[SirPoonga]

that's different...

It has cool ideas but I see alot of suckage.  Like button naming.

Looking at it again.  Nintendo has become the Apple of the console world.  They come out with cool hardware that is ahead of its time.

[pointdablame]

if that is the REAL controller, I guarantee I won't be getting the Revolution.

It looks like I should be changing a channel with that thing.... not tackling a next-gen game.  Terrible design.

[orntar]

did you guys read the article? sounds pretty revolutionary to me, and that controller in each hand thing is something i've wanted for years.

it doesnt matter what it looks like.

[pointdablame]

I just can't see it being comfortable.  The technology in it is great, the built in wireless/tilt and movement sensors, etc.....


but it's still a remote control pretending to be a game controller.  I certainly don't like the idea of holding that thing for hours at a time.

[JB]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

According to people that have ACTUALLY USED IT, it works quite nicely.

See also: the complete standard controller.


And personally, I'mn glad to see someone doing something that ISN'T another alteration of a 20-year-old design that was intended to be compact more than it was functional.

[N-Ken]

WHAT.  THE. HELL!!??

[Scott84]

Download the video at IGN...

then you will see how this thing really is gonna work!

[shmokes]

It sounds fantastic to me.  Absolutely amazing.  Imagine how the D-pad (another nintendo innovation) sounded the first time it was described to someone who was used to holding a full-sized joystick in their hands.  Imagine how strange a three-pronged console controller introducing analog control to console games for the first time must have sounded.....hey....that was Nintendo too.  Next someone is going to tell me that they invented rumbling gamepads. 


Seriously, I think this sounds amazing.  I've said for years (even in a recent debate on this board) that the control schemes used in videogames were still primative.  This seems like an enormous leap in the right direction.  I sure hope it's successful.  At the very least, you gotta give 'em props for balls.  Simply amazing to see a company the size of Nintendo taking a risk like that.

As to it looking like a remote....gimme a break.  Look at the N64 controller.  It was a monstrosity.  Great controller, though.  The IGN people said that it was extremely comfortable to hold, which seems a lot more important.  I'm a little concerned about arm fatique.  I remember when I was a kid playing with the power glove that I got for christmas (and then started crying and asked my parents if we could take it back to the store and trade it for something else when I realized how much my only christmas present sucked ).  You couldn't play that thing very long at all before your arm felt like it was going to fall off.  So, I guess it's not all daisies when it comes to Nintendo's controller designs.

Anyway, I'm excited and afraid.  I'm excited at all the possibilities of new types of gameplay, as well as having a console controller that actually works for 1st person games (which make up a huge percentage of all available games).  I'm afraid of support.  3rd party contributions to Gamecube were bad enough.  Nintendo better have some truly revolutionary games ready for launch  --  I'm talking Super Mario 64 revolutionary, if they want to sell enough systems to attract a reasonable amount of 3rd party support. 

I hope they do.

[SirPoonga]

I see two major flaws with it.  That's why I said Nintendo is like Apple, great hardware but ahead of it's time.  The tilt sensing is goo, the idea is cool.  But the implemenation looks limiting.

Nintendo has always come out with weird controllers and devices so this doesn't suprise me.  See the NES and SNES for proof of that.

The two major flaws I see
A, B, a, b.  People are going to get confused when you tell them to push the "aye" button when you talk to them.
The second problem is location of buttons.  From what I can see you have access to only 4 buttons at any one time.

If you don't have the analog stick attched with two hands you can access A, B, a, b.  With the analog stick I am assuming the two button on that are a and b but then you have "extra" buttons in the form of a dpad.  All sport games are now shot for controlling, all FPS games are shot for controlling.  The only thing that will be worth while is nintendo games.  Mario, Metrio, Wave race, mario party, super smash bros, will all be fine.  How is the next zelda going to be controlled with that?

I think the idea is cool, but implementation is going to suck except for Nintendo brand games.

I'm thinking Nintendo no longer wants to compete with the same target as xbox and sony.  With the cube and this they clearly are going after the kids.  Simple controllers and limited features.

I do see one really cool feature, a power button on the controller

Anyway, I'm excited and afraid.  I'm excited at all the possibilities of new types of gameplay, as well as having a console controller that actually works for 1st person games[/uote]
how is that?
Have you ever used a Microsoft Sidewinder Dual Strike or one of those positional mice?  The whole twisting the joystick is uncomfortable to alot of people.

[shmokes]

I just read the 1up article and two things struck me, one good, one bad.  The good thing was this comment about 1st person shooters:

As odd as it may look holding the two separate controller pieces, one in each hand, looking around felt incredibly natural, even more than my preferred PC-style keyboard-and-mouse setup. I have to wonder about precision and speed in multiplayer games, but for a more deliberate single-player game like Metroid Prime - and the series is already confirmed for an appearance on the Revolution - this setup already has huge potential.


Both reviews sounded extremely pleased and optimistic about this style of game with the new controller.  The thing that has me a bit concerned, though, is the what he said about the sensor:

Another interesting tidbit-if your controller fell outside the detection "box," the demo had an arrow pointing off the edge of the screen in that direction so you could get it back in the correct space.

 Instead of using gyroscopes or something, there is a small antenna-like sensor that lays at the bottom of the TV.  If you move the controller out of the correct space it will lose contact and quit sensing.  What if you've got a bunch of people over playing mario party?  Does each controller use its own sensor?  If not, does everybody have to sit, smashed together bumping elbows so nobody's controller moves out of range horizontally?  Presumably if this guy was playing a single player game and he had arrows warning him that he was straying too far, this would be a huge problem for multiplayer.  I'm sure that Nintendo will work it out to make it reasonable, but it seems like a possible disadvantage.

[shmokes]

I think it's a plus for sports games, but it would require a completely different control scheme.  This is just off the top of my head, but imagine a helmet cam quarterback who can run in any direction with the analog stick in your left hand while looking wherever he wants with the motion sensor remote part.  You choose who to throw to by looking at at him.  This seems like a much more accurate, and fun, way of finding your open man on the field.

Imagine playing a zelda game in which the trigger lock would make the remote act like Link's sword.  You could block by moving the controller into place.  You could pull off various moves by actually swinging (probably more like flicking so your arm doesn't get tired) the sword in various ways.

These are just ideas that popped into my head within seconds of reading your post.  Imagine the possibilities for those people who are actually getting paid to sit around for weeks and months thinking up ways this can be used.  I think it has plenty of revolutionary potential.  I just hope that there are enough 3rd party developers willing to take the initial risk to create a domino effect of consumer and developer support or, like the Dreamcast, it will die an untimely death.

[JB]

I'm a little concerned about arm fatique.  I remember when I was a kid playing with the power glove that I got for christmas (and then started crying and asked my parents if we could take it back to the store and trade it for something else when I realized how much my only christmas present sucked ).  You couldn't play that thing very long at all before your arm felt like it was going to fall off.  So, I guess it's not all daisies when it comes to Nintendo's controller designs.

A few things:
1. Power Glove wasn't Nintendo's. Was Mattel's.
2. Nothing on the NES was really designed around a VR glove, which IS ill-suited towards emulating a d-pad+2 buttons.
3. We're some 20 years down the line tech-wise. I'm pretty sure this works just a tad better. It sounded like you could actually just make small wrist gestures instead of requiring large motions hanging in mid-air.

Anyway, I'm excited and afraid.  I'm excited at all the possibilities of new types of gameplay, as well as having a console controller that actually works for 1st person games (which make up a huge percentage of all available games).  I'm afraid of support.  3rd party contributions to Gamecube were bad enough.  Nintendo better have some truly revolutionary games ready for launch  --  I'm talking Super Mario 64 revolutionary, if they want to sell enough systems to attract a reasonable amount of 3rd party support. 

I hope they do.

Same thought here.

The way they've been pushing the "download NES games" angle so hard, combined with the final controller having an NES pad built-in, I think they're relying on that to push the system.
Of course, with the competition running 400, and I think Nintendo's stated target was 100, that's gonna move a lot of systems too.

[knuttz]

I see some possibilities.  Turn that SOB sideways and fire up a NES emulator.

[JB]

I see some possibilities.  Turn that SOB sideways and fire up a NES emulator.

Like I said, the NES downloads has been their primary marketing angle for some time here, and I don't see it lightening up any time soon.

But let's not forget, we can do SNES games too!

[MajorLag]

At first I was all like "What? A remote? Is it April? Has my current schedual so warped my time sense that I totally didn't notice the passing of half a year?". But then I read the review, and watched the video, and I think this thing has some serious potential. Of course, it'll be a hard sell in the markets where Nintendo has a reputation as a kidde game company (because they have the audacity to produce games that aren't filled with gore and sex) because few will have faith in them. I doubt they will lose many gamers, since most of the people who baught a gamecube have enough faith to trust Miamoto (he's never led us astray before when it came to controller design), and with any luck they'll gain a few in otherwise ignored markets (adult females, people who've never played a game before and are thus overwhelmed by masses of buttons), and the console will be significantly less expensive then the competetion. Not that Nintendo needs a larger market share to stay profitable, hell, as it is they are the only console manufacturer making money in the industry.

Anyway, one thing is certain: It can't possible be as poorly designed as a Dual Analog PS controller (WHY DO YOU PUT THE LEFT ANALOG STICK SO FAR DOWN! And for christ's sake, using both at once with the shoulder buttons is rediculously uncomfortable.)

[shmokes]

Don't be so sure about Nintendo brand loyalty.  I know A LOT  of people with Gamecubes that NEVER get played.  A lot of people felt ripped off by the Gamecube.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Sony is making money hand over fist on the PS2.  They've sold like 100 million worldwide.  Xbox and Gamecube have a tiny fraction of that.  I mean, this is a bad year for everyone in the industry because development is switching over to the new platforms, which costs the developers a huge chunk of money for development kits and learning how to program for the brand new architectures.  So they have to spend all this extra development money, and at the same time their developers are now not working as much on the current gen systems to generate income.  Even consumers stop buying as many videogames, and especially videogame systems, as they start gearing up for the new hardware to hit the market.

So I'm sure that all three manufacturers are hurting (especially MS, who has never made a profit of Xbox), but I doubt that Sony is actually losing money.

...and so on.

[JB]

I loved the video.
That spot at the middle with the girl staring in awe as she makes Mario jump over and over was priceless.

[shmokes]

3. We're some 20 years down the line tech-wise. I'm pretty sure this works just a tad better. It sounded like you could actually just make small wrist gestures instead of requiring large motions hanging in mid-air.

Trust me, I wouldn't have even considered it a possibility that there would be any problem with losing the connection with the sensor had it not been for the fact that the guy actually using it was getting warning arrows on the screen telling him that if he wasn't careful he would lose his connection.  I still doubt that it will be an issue, but that comment just raised a flag in my head.

And if the Powerglove wasn't Nintendo's they should at least have had the gumption not to pimp it on the Wizard movie 

[knuttz]

Like I said, the NES downloads has been their primary marketing angle for some time here, and I don't see it lightening up any time soon

Yeah I was typing as you were posting.

Also after watching that terrible IGN video I am no longer happy about this at all.

[JB]

That explains that.

3. We're some 20 years down the line tech-wise. I'm pretty sure this works just a tad better. It sounded like you could actually just make small wrist gestures instead of requiring large motions hanging in mid-air.

Trust me, I wouldn't have even considered it a possibility that there would be any problem with losing the connection with the sensor had it not been for the fact that the guy actually using it was getting warning arrows on the screen telling him that if he wasn't careful he would lose his connection.  I still doubt that it will be an issue, but that comment just raised a flag in my head.

I'd sorta thought he dropped it.
But your explanation makes more sense.

And if the Powerglove wasn't Nintendo's they should at least have had the gumption not to pimp it on the Wizard movie 

Touche.

Worthless trivia: a lot of the power gloves sold weren't ever used on the NES. They got hacked to PC interfaces and were used as cheap VR gloves, which they worked REALLY well at.

[dennis808]

Did any of yhe criticasters see this movie:


This is definitely going to revolutionise gaming...

[TOK]

I've only had experience with one motion sensing controller, that 3D gampad Microsoft made called the 3D Pro or something like that. It seemed like a great idea, but was actually very innaccurate and klunky to use. I ended up shutting off the 3D function and using it like a regular pad.

Unless Nintendo has really polished the motion sensing of this unit. I'm thinking it's going to just be another worthless gimmick.

dennis808: That video didn't do anything for me, since its all just actors pretending to have fun with it. I can swing my DVD player remote around like a tennis racquet or a sword too, but what does it tell you about how games play?
It sounded like the hands-on demo was mostly simplistic stuff. You want to buy the new Nintendo to play air hockey (better known as Pong)?

[elvis]

I see some possibilities.  Turn that SOB sideways and fire up a NES emulator.

I'm glad someone else said it.   That's the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw it.   They're going backwards, not forwards!

At any rate, if I can't play a decent 6-button fighter on it, I won't be buying it.  End of story.  Sorry, but fishing games just don't blow my skirt up.

[ChadTower]

Imagine how strange a three-pronged console controller introducing analog control to console games for the first time must have sounded.....hey....that was Nintendo too.

[RecycledPast]

I love that nintendo is drawing the line in the sand.

[ChadTower]

I think Nintendo COULD beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game, if they wanted to do so.  Nintendo doesn't want to create a system with 659 FPS clones, the same sports and driving games, and very little good and unique content.  They want to have the innovative stuff, not the same stuff.

It's not a question of being unable to beat Sony and Microsoft head on.  It's a matter of not wanting to provide a product that is already saturated.

[Stingray]

It's very hard for me to say if I'll like it or not without being able to use it. I'm sure I'll buy a revolution eventually, I've been a Nintendo fan since the first time I saw a NES in action.

-S

[Setabs]

I hope the revolution is cheap because the price just totally turns me off about the xbox360 and ps3.  If they can deliever a system $100 cheaper than them It will help nintendo alot. anyone heard about how much it will cost?

The controller is very unique. I am waiting gor the IGN video to load right know so I can't tell how useful it appears to be in action.  How are you supposed to play snes games on that by the way.  Is nintendo tapping into the "If you want this one feature by this adapter that only works for one thing"  but you need 3 or 4 to be able to play all available games.

[ChadTower]

I wouldn't count on it being inexpensive.

[Stingray]

It will be expensive, but hopefully it will be, like the Gamecube, less expensive than the Sony and MS offerings.

-S

[ChadTower]

By the time I get around to buying one, they'll all be the same price anyway.

[Stingray]

I seriously doubt I'll buy one until a big price drop either. I just got a Gamecube last week.

-S

[shmokes]

Nintendo's will always be lower.  It'll be released at $200, for example.  when Xbox360 is lowered to $250 the Revolution will be lowered to $150 and so on.

By the way, for anyone who is unaware, the Revolution will play Gamecube discs.  I don't know if it is using Gamecube hardware or an emulator, but if its an emulator that should give us an idea that it will be a fairly powerful machine, if not as powerful as the Xbox360 or PS3.

Anyway, my point about Gamecube is that there is a door on the top of the Revolution hiding four Gamecube controller ports.  Maybe that's what they figure most people will use to play SNES.  Even though it's not exactly the same button layout, the Gamecube controller does have four face buttons and two shoulder buttons.  Personally, I think that the button layout is far better on the Gamecube, but I digress...  It seems like the shoulder buttons could be a bit of a disadvantage, though, seeing as they are analog.

[Stingray]

By the way, for anyone who is unaware, the Revolution will play Gamecube discs.  ... Anyway, my point about Gamecube is that there is a door on the top of the Revolution hiding four Gamecube controller ports.

Interesting. I was unaware of either of those tidbits.

-S

[SirPoonga]

That makes a difference then.  Being able to support the cube controllers and games is better then.

The controller is already on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Revolution

I see it has 2 USB 2.0 ports, anyone know if any keyboarda and mouse cna be plugged in?

[shmokes]

Yeah...it's one of my favorite things about the system, and makes me feel like a geek.  but I just think that it's so cool that it has a five-inch slot loading drive that will grab five-inch or 3-inch discs and it will pull the 3-inch one in and center it and everything.  You don't have to put the three inch disc in in any special place.  You can push it in from the left side or right side or center, the drive just pulls it in and puts it where it needs to be.  Kinda cool.   

edit: here's a pic

[Stingray]

Are those memory card slots under the door? If so, why did they place them where they will prevent the door from closing? I guess the thinking is that you would only need one when you're playing 'Cube games so the door would be open anyway. I'm assuming that the Revolution uses a different type of media for game saves. Does it have a hard drive?

-S

[ChadTower]

Well, since they talk about downloading the classics on a pay per game basis, I would assume so.

[Stingray]

That would makes sense wouldn't it?

Duh.

-S

[Hoagie_one]

i dont hate it

[Otraotaku]

I was reading that article this morning, at school...1

i admit i was disouraged, thinking to myself just one thing, "WTF?" but by the time i read the first paragraph down i calmed down and laughed to myself in relief... its going to be great, theres no other easier way to play FPS and including real actions, almost the same road they went with DS isnt it? seems they hyped up my expections...

i am a bit uncertain in one perspective... If i read it correct its "like" a LightGun sensor that attracts the screen for actions? correct?

[JB]

Imagine how strange a three-pronged console controller introducing analog control to console games for the first time must have sounded.....hey....that was Nintendo too. 

Unless the SNES had analog stick controllers I'm not aware of, Sega introduced the analog stick.  The Saturn had it.

N64 introduced them. Though Sega got Nights out first in America, Nintendo premiered it world-wide. Both at game shows and in retail.

...

Well, actually the 5200 introduced analog sticks. But the N64 resurrected it.

Are those memory card slots under the door? If so, why did they place them where they will prevent the door from closing? I guess the thinking is that you would only need one when you're playing 'Cube games so the door would be open anyway. I'm assuming that the Revolution uses a different type of media for game saves. Does it have a hard drive?

-S

Integrated GB of flash RAM. With support for more through CompactFlash connectors, last I heard.

[Todd H]

Iwata addressed concerns people might have about playing retro games on the Revolution's new controller through its virtual console backwards compatibility, saying that classic-styled expansion controllers would be available so people could enjoy the games as they originally remembered them.

So it looks like Nintendo will sell classic controllers compatible with the Revolution.

[Stingray]

Iwata addressed concerns people might have about playing retro games on the Revolution's new controller through its virtual console backwards compatibility, saying that classic-styled expansion controllers would be available so people could enjoy the games as they originally remembered them.

So it looks like Nintendo will sell classic controllers compatible with the Revolution.

If so that's very neat. Suddenly I'm looking forward to the Revolution a lot more. Last couple of generations, Nintendo systems have been my second choice behind Sony. I may make the Revolution my first choice this time.

-S

[ChadTower]

Yay, I can pay $40 for an NES controller that I have 457 of already, only this one works on the Revolution.

[slycrel]

If so that's very neat. Suddenly I'm looking forward to the Revolution a lot more. Last couple of generations, Nintendo systems have been my second choice behind Sony. I may make the Revolution my first choice this time.

-S

I went for the xbox due to Halo last round.

[ChadTower]

Eh, one of the only things that would get me to spend money on this before 2008 would be top quality light gun games, lots of them.

[2600]

Yay, I can pay $40 for an NES controller that I have 457 of already, only this one works on the Revolution.

Damn, I should of asked you before looking on EBAY.  Couldn't find a good controller to save my life.


Back on topic, wonder how long till the controller is hacked and used on a PC?
Scratch that, forgot it was wireless. 

[SirPoonga]

I'd end up breaking the top door off and having a memory card an warebird wireless controllers plugged in all the time

[Stingray]

I don't know about breaking the door off, but I'd have no problem with cutting a couple of holes in the appropriate places so it could stay shut with a controller and a memory card in place.

-S

[MrTroy]

Glad there's more than one of us who thinks this is great. Notice how Ps3 controller looks like a 3rd parth ps2 controller. And how the X360 looks so close to the controller s. Those companies need to evolve. I've never been big on the "Make it pretty and they will buy" a majority of the games I play are 2d. A Majority of the games I wanna make are 2d. Yet these companies are all about "Make 3d prettier"... Glad to see Nintendo is all about gameplay.

I can't wait to try out the new Luigi's Mansion with that thing. It's gonna be sweet. That is if they decide to make it.

Also. There's plenty of ways to add classic games. I'm thinking basically SNES,n64 and the gamecube. Have the same amount of buttons kinda. (If you count the Z button as the Select Button) with the exception of the ds. I see everything being played on it very easily. Ooooh I can't wait.

[Stingray]

Luigi's Mansion would be amazingly cool with that controller. Seems to me that's exactly the kind of thing it was designed for.

-S

[brophog]

I don't know how many people ever used one, but there was a very similiar aftermarket controller for the original Playstation. Like this, it was setup as a remote control apparatus with the gimmick that you operated it with one hand. It wasn't too bad for most games at the time before Dual Shock/analog/two sticks. What made it difficult was when you needed to press more than one button at a time.

That's what makes me a little hesitant on this design. Games have become so oriented with two sticks and several buttons simulaneously (sports games and FPS are good examples).

I'll try to find a picture of this apparatus to post.

[ChadTower]

But what if you could point at the receiver running a deep flag and throw him the ball by tilting the controller forward?

[SirPoonga]

I osuld see using the tilt to "lead" a throw to a receiver.  Or a deke in NHL.

I'm wondering how you'd play a GTA with it, I don't think that owuld be possible. 

[ChadTower]

Tilt would be better used to determine arc and velocity of the throw.  Simple targetting would be how you led the receiver.  That's actually not too different from the way you would do it IRL.

[MajorLag]

Also, I'm pretty sure that Sony is making money hand over fist on the PS2.  They've sold like 100 million worldwide.

Actually, I was wrong about Sony not profiting in the games business. Unlike Microsoft, they are actually making a profit, its just not nearly as much as Nintendo is making. See:



source: http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php 
results confirmed by other sources

That kind of profit is the reason they can innovate like this I guess.

[shmokes]

I'd be interested in seeing Gamecube specific numbers.  I bet they'd tell a MUCH different story.  Now, I'm not saying that the Gamecube is losing money, but I believe that by far the vast bulk of Nintendo's profit come from the Handheld market these days.

[owenowen]

well im sold!


i was planning for the xbox but i looks now like ill definately be going with nintendo!

[versapak]

The controller looks very interesting, but as a specialty controller, not as a system's main controller.

A systems main controller has to be good for a variety of applications, which this one is not.


That thing looks like it would be a great alternative device for a gaming console, similar to something like a steering wheel, a  lightgun or an Eye Toy, and it would be best released as such. I think with that being their main controller, that they will alienate a lot of 3rd party support, as well as a lot of userbase as a result.

[shmokes]

Frankly, I'm sold too.  This is going to sound kinda lame, but I am generally in Chad's position.  I wait for the prices to come down a bit, as I don't have much time for videogames and so there are loads of games for the previous generation systems that I never got around to that I can play until the new systems are more reasonable.

...BUT, this is different.  I REALLY want this thing to succeed.  I was leaning toward PS3 in a couple years, but now I think I'm going to try to jump on this boat just to do my part, so to speak to help bring 3rd parties to the platform to begin with.  Which will bring more consumers.  Which will bring more 3rd parties.  And so on.

It's just one of those things, like Psychonauts.   I steal almost all of my Xbox games.  I download most, and if I want something specific, right now, I just rent it and rip it.  But I want Tim Schaffer to succeed so much that I ordered Psychonauts a few weeks ago, in spite of being so overwhelmed with school and work right now that I haven't even opened it yet.  But I know that sales are low (even though it's apparently a masterpiece).  I wanted to pick it up while it was still full-price and I'm sure that a price drop is in its very near future.

So, anyway, I am so impressed with Nintendo taking this bold step, and I think that it has so much potential, that I'm going to try to jump on this thing at launch.  For any console to be a success, somebody has to do it.  Generally I don't want that somebody to be me, but I'll try to make an exception here.

[shmokes]

The controller looks very interesting, but as a specialty controller, not as a system's main controller.

Herein lies the catch-22.  Nintendo wants to change the way people play games.  They can release it as the main controller, but that alienates 3rd parties so nobody buys the system.  Solution?  Release it as a specialty controller.  But then the controller doesn't get supported by 3rd parties, so nobody owns it, so the way people play games hasn't been changed.  Solution?  Release it as the main controller.  But then.......

You gotta commend them.  They are as aware of the above problem as well as anyone else.  It's an enormous risk.  Most companies wouldn't have done it.  Especially a company the size of Nintendo.

Balls.  Balls.  Balls.

[brophog]

You hit the nail on the head. How do you be innovative and not alienate.

Maybe Nintendo just doesn't care. Seriously. They've been lacking consistent 3rd party support for a while now. NCAA 06 didn't even come out on the Gamecube this year.

It just seems to me that Nintendo is not wanting to compete anymore with the PS3 and XBox360. I think Nintendo feels that it can provide something different for gamers.

[Scott84]

NEW REVOLUTION CONTROLLER SHOT!

Now it makes sense!!

[shmokes]

Wait a minute... what, exactly, makes sense now.  What, for that matter, didn't make sense before?

[JB]

NEW REVOLUTION CONTROLLER SHOT!

Now it makes sense!!

I hate IGN. More than that, I hate the people passing that utterly random render off as an actual product.

[shmokes]

You know what's funny?  I put up a post that said, "That ain't real, get rid of that!"

But then I went to IGN and figured maybe I was wrong.  I still figure that but...

[ChadTower]

That is probably their Gamecube compatible controller.  Next you'll see something like the N64 similar to that one.  They didn't say they were going to rerelease the original controllers, they said they were going to release classic styled controllers for play with classic games.

Shmokes and I are in the same spot here.  We're both very impressed with what Nintendo is doing and I feel that Nintendo has earned the credibility of faith.  I think it will be worth having.  There was a time no one thought a portable that took carts was worthwhile, too.

So long as Sony and Microsoft are in rabid competition to be nearly identical, I'll stick with Nintendo's attempts to be innovative.

[JB]

That is probably their Gamecube compatible controller.

Why? It has GameCube ports for real 'Cube pads when it's in 'Cube mode. The 'Cube side is handled through backwards-compatibility, not emulation. There's not enough power in that box to emu the 'Cube.

And IGN ADMITS that it was a quick photochop and not a real photo of anything.

[ChadTower]

I would not bet on them allowing you to use an actual GC controller rather than altering the pinouts just enough to make you buy a new one.

[JB]

I would not bet on them allowing you to use an actual GC controller rather than altering the pinouts just enough to make you buy a new one.

It's already established FROM NINTENDO that they're there explicitly FOR the use of existing GameCube peripherals on existing GameCube software.

[shmokes]

True that.  They're standard Gamecube ports.

[ChadTower]

Standard PORTS, yes, but no guarantee of 100% compatibility.  I just don't trust it yet.

[JB]

Standard PORTS, yes, but no guarantee of 100% compatibility.  I just don't trust it yet.

They've already SAID they're solely for the use of existing Gamecube peripherals.

That means they're compatible.

[MajorLag]

Standard PORTS, yes, but no guarantee of 100% compatibility.  I just don't trust it yet.

Just how many other ways can you interpret "Standard GameCube controller ports"? Besides, what the hell else would they be used for?

[lcddream]

i want everyone remember this moment when sony and microcash and every 3rd party manufacturer start biting nintendo's ideas....just like every other time.


i think this system is going to kill sony and microsoft not too long after it's out....i think nintendo really has something here.

edit: poor grammar

[ChadTower]

Just how many other ways can you interpret "Standard GameCube controller ports"?

You're probably right, but, legally, that phrase is incomplete and can be interpreted multiple ways.

[versapak]

That is probably their Gamecube compatible controller. Next you'll see something like the N64 similar to that one. They didn't say they were going to rerelease the original controllers, they said they were going to release classic styled controllers for play with classic games.

Shmokes and I are in the same spot here. We're both very impressed with what Nintendo is doing and I feel that Nintendo has earned the credibility of faith. I think it will be worth having. There was a time no one thought a portable that took carts was worthwhile, too.

So long as Sony and Microsoft are in rabid competition to be nearly identical, I'll stick with Nintendo's attempts to be innovative.

Interesting...

Nintendo has actually LOST my faith in their credibility.

i want everyone remember this moment when sony and microcash and every 3rd party manufacturer start biting nintendo's ideas....just like every other time.


i think this system is going to kill sony and microsoft not too long after it's out....i think nintendo really has something here.

Nintendo does have interesting and innovative ideas, but there is no chance in hello that this console will "kill" Sony and Microsoft's consoles, because Nintendo are out of touch with gamers. I appreciate the ideas they come up with, because I love what the competition does when they steal them.

Honestly... I have been very happy with games being made these days, and I am not looking for a "revolution". I am always looking for better quality put into games, and I am looking for more online focus, but I don't need some magical controller that will totally change the way I play games.

People always talk about all the garbage that comes out these days. Tis nothing but old-itis. There is no more crap coming out today than there was 20 years ago. Heck, I'd actually bet that there was more crap coming out 20 years ago, when it was cheaper to produce it. It is just that the new crap titles are still fresh in our minds. After another several years have passed, we will be blessed with the healing of time, and the crap from today will take a backseat in our minds, making way for fond memories of the great titles of this generation.



[EDIT]
As I have already stated... Such an idea is a great idea for a specialty controller. If Nintendo wants their entire system to be the specialty controller, then they can expect it will sell as such.

[Todd H]

"Revolution to launch with 221 free games?"

http://www.gamesradar.com/?pagetypeid=2&articleid=36169&subsectionid=1587

VERY interesting...

[ChadTower]

Nintendo does have interesting and innovative ideas, but there is no chance in hello that this console will "kill" Sony and Microsoft's consoles, because Nintendo are out of touch with gamers.

Who said that they are out to kill Sony or Microsoft's consoles?  They are trying to stay out of direct competition with those consoles, by their own statements.  They are creating an alternative console with an alternative experience.

[versapak]

Nintendo does have interesting and innovative ideas, but there is no chance in hello that this console will "kill" Sony and Microsoft's consoles, because Nintendo are out of touch with gamers.

Who said that they are out to kill Sony or Microsoft's consoles? They are trying to stay out of direct competition with those consoles, by their own statements. They are creating an alternative console with an alternative experience.

Someone else stated it. I was replying to him with that statement, without bothering to throw another quote into my post.

My bad... I will go throw a quote in right now.

[Pilot143]

I think alot of good points have been made above... but some things are all floating around as rumors still.

[Todd H]

the controler ports ontop are gc compatable hardware wise, does that guarentee software compatable?  probably not.

The Revolution is fully hardware and software compatible with the Gamecube.  Plug your Gamecube controller in, load up your Gamecube disk, and have at it.

Pretty interesting that a company that has stayed away from backwards compatibility with its consoles is releasing a system that can play NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, and Revolution games.

[Otraotaku]

"Revolution to launch with 221 free games?"

http://www.gamesradar.com/?pagetypeid=2&articleid=36169&subsectionid=1587

VERY interesting...

WOOT!!!!!??? is that offical?

[elvis]

If they are releasing backward compatability *AND* free ROMs, they get a sale from me.  I praise any company making retro titles available legitimately to its users.

Bring it on!

[versapak]

If that news about the back catalogue of 1st party titles being free is true, then they definitely do have a first day sale from me, based on just that alone.


I will support any company that does something like that.

[shmokes]

Nintendo does have interesting and innovative ideas, but there is no chance in hello that this console will "kill" Sony and Microsoft's consoles, because Nintendo are out of touch with gamers. I appreciate the ideas they come up with, because I love what the competition does when they steal them.

Honestly... I have been very happy with games being made these days, and I am not looking for a "revolution". I am always looking for better quality put into games, and I am looking for more online focus, but I don't need some magical controller that will totally change the way I play games.

Personally, I'm not sure Nintendo can beat Sony/Microsoft right now, and if Nintendo's console meets with success (and probably even if it doesn't) we will see these new ideas, like every other aspect of the competition's controllers, copied.

Now I agree with you about games today being better than ever before, but if you were "looking" for a revolution it would probably just be evolution.  That's kinda the thing about revolutions.  Like Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario 3 or Street Figher II or Metroid or Super Mario 64, revolutions generally knock us on our collective ass because we weren't looking for them.  If this device lives up to its promise it will be a revolution regardless of whether you looked for it.

We were perfectly happy with Donkey Kong Country before Super Mario 64, with a revolutionary new controller, appeared out of nowhere.  Nobody was looking for a revolution then either.

[paigeoliver]

If that news about the back catalogue of 1st party titles being free is true, then they definitely do have a first day sale from me, based on just that alone.


I will support any company that does something like that.

If that is true than I will also buy one, last new console I bought was a Nes when I was 12. They will have gotten me as a customer.

The only thing is that I won't buy a single game until 8 years later when I can buy them for $3 each on ebay.

[shmokes]

You'll still be doing them a favor as your sale will influence third parties to support the system, cos they don't know that you don't plan to buy games.

[ChadTower]

MMM, $6 to ship a $3 purchase.   

[Stingray]

Like everyone else, I had already heard that downloadable Nintendo classics would be available. The fact that they are going to be free just pushes me right over the top. I'm very seriously considering buying one at launch and I never do that. The only system I've ever been an early adopter on was the 2600.

This is the first new system that I've been genuinely excited about in a long time. I can't wait to hear more about it. I sincerely hope that it turns out to be as cool as it sounds like it's going to be.

-S

[ChadTower]

Alas, I am waiting on the hammer to drop on this one.  There is too much money to be made off of those downloadable games.  I await the announcement that the free downloads will have expiration dates on them, or will be time limited demos, or something else that forces you to pay $4/rom to keep them indefinitely.

[Todd H]

The rumor I heard was that first party games would be free, but third party games would not.  Still, that gives the Revolution an impressive number of launch titles if true.

[pointdablame]

Most of the games I'd want to play anyway would be first party title, so I REALLY hope this turns out to be true.

To have the back catalog of Nintendo available at launch would be amazing.... it'd even make buying the few 3rd party title I might be interested in for $3-5 a lot more bearable.

[shmokes]

Well hopefully Nintendo is doing their market research because, christ, look at this thread. 

In fact....wow....something amazing just occurred to me.  You know what's REALLY special about this?  What is Nintendo's biggest problem in the market today?  Shall we say they've got a bit of an image issue?  People associate the Nintendo name with a child plaything.  The average gamer today is over 18 and that number just keeps getting higher, which is continually shrinking Nintendo's market share.

Well, nobody currently under 18 years old could care less about these classic games.  Think about the reaction this has got in this thread, especially with regard to versapak, who went from outright contempt to plans to buy it on launch-day.  Imagine what it means to Nintendo, particularly with regards to drawing 3rd parties, to have a significant userbase over the age of 14.  If enough adults own and use the system 3rd parties WILL support it with content for adults, which will draw even more adults.  And, of course, Nintendo will continue providing the E for Everyone games.

I'm starting to come around.  Nintendo is acting unusually shrewd here.  I'm starting to think this thing might not be such a long shot.  Let's just hope that there are some people with development kits in their hands.  I suspect there are at least Alpha kits since I've seen various developers from EA to Sega talking about how much they like the controller (and making it clear that they liked it before the public unveiling.

[Stingray]

This thread has really gotten me interested in the Revolution. I have to say that I had more or less decided that my next new system would be a PS3 and then not until the first major price drop, which is almost always a year after launch. At this point I can't imagine not buying a Revolution, and soon after launch at that.

Has there been any kind of tentative launch date yet? I mean other than "sometime in 2006".

-S

[ChadTower]

Can't say I'm overly thrilled at the prospect of playing an N64 game with any of the available controllers, nor SNES, nor NES.  They need to address that before I even consider replacing the original hardware in my entertainment centre.

[Stingray]

Can't say I'm overly thrilled at the prospect of playing an N64 game with any of the available controllers, nor SNES, nor NES.  They need to address that before I even consider replacing the original hardware in my entertainment centre.

I know you saw this, becaus eyou commented on it last week:

Iwata addressed concerns people might have about playing retro games on the Revolution's new controller through its virtual console backwards compatibility, saying that classic-styled expansion controllers would be available so people could enjoy the games as they originally remembered them.

So it looks like Nintendo will sell classic controllers compatible with the Revolution.

And does anyone else think the Revolution looks much, much better when you take it out of that silly stand and lay it flat? I never used the stand for my PS2, and I doubt I'll use the one that comes with the Revolution either.



-S

[ChadTower]

We have not yet seen said classic controllers, thus I have no reason to consider them at this point.  Can't say I have a ton of interest in dropping $300 on the console and then $30 each on three "new" N64 controllers to replace a $10 N64 and three $6 controllers.

The N64 is the system that sees by far the most play in my house.

[Todd H]

Can't say I have a ton of interest in dropping $300 on the console and then $30 each on three "new" N64 controllers to replace a $10 N64 and three $6 controllers.

The console should retail for around $199.  Not sure how much classic controllers will cost however.

And does anyone else think the Revolution looks much, much better when you take it out of that silly stand and lay it flat? I never used the stand for my PS2, and I doubt I'll use the one that comes with the Revolution either.

I agree.  It would look right at home among my other home theater equipment, unlike the Gamecube.

[ChadTower]

Can't say moving from $300 to $199 makes any difference.

[Todd H]

Can't say moving from $300 to $199 makes any difference.

Sounds like your mind is made up.  You're best bet then would be to hold on to your N64 and buy one of the other next gen systems.

[ChadTower]

My best bet, likely what I will do, is to keep the N64 and buy none of the next gen systems.

[Todd H]

That works as well.   

I haven't quite decided what to do.  I skipped the last generation and may skip the next.  The Revolution does intrigue me however.

If the PS3 manages to come in at $300 or less, I'll probably pick one up just for the ability to play high def movies via the blu-ray drive.

[ChadTower]

I have a GC, but only because my wife bought it for my birthday a while back.  It gets little play from anyone in my house.  Nearly all of my console gaming is either Saturn or TurboExpress, and my kids stick with the N64 almost exclusively.

[MameMaster!]

you know....for the first time in a LONG while I'm actually excited again about a new system.

I watched the revolution promo video....and thought to myself wow how cool. A BACK TO BASICS!...approach.

You know as a MAME

[ChadTower]

It's funny... all these companies bringing out new, high power stuff for years and no one is excited, they just want it inexpensive.

Nintendo repackages old stuff we already have, makes it expensive again, and people are sexually aroused in anticipation.

[Stingray]

Anyone seen this? It's just another mockup, but it gives you an idea of some of the future applications for this motion sensitive controller.

Edit: Image gets distorted when shrunk down like that. Click here for the full sized version.

-S

[ChadTower]

so, it's a motion sensitive toilet seat controller?

[MajorLag]

Hey ChadTower. You want to, I don't know, stop behaving like a jackass?

You don't like the Revolution, we get it. You don't have to keep posting dumbass one liners to remind us every other post.

Anyone seen this? It's just another mockup, but it gives you an idea of some of the future applications for this motion sensitive controller.

Is anyone else thinking "Wireless Starwars Yoke"?

[ChadTower]

Hey ChadTower. You want to, I don't know, stop behaving like a jackass?

Quoth the Magic 8 Ball:

Outlook not so good.

[versapak]

The only problem with such ideas as that steering wheel one, is that it wounds pretty cool, but in practice would suck.

Seriously...

Controlling by moving a controller around freely in the air, for anything more than a very short amount of time, would get pretty darn uncomfortable.


As for MajorLag...

Take a deep breath dude. You're on the internet, and you ARE overreacting.

[Stingray]

Like I said, it's just a mockup. As far as I know there is no plan at this time to produce anything of the kind. I only posted it because at first glance the controller looks like a remote, but taken in conjunction with the analog stick attachment and given the other types of controllers that could potentially plug into it, it all starts to get very interesting - at least to me.

I'm sure there are other types of controllers that could plug into it that none of us have even thought of. I can't even imagine what might be on the horizon. At this point I think we're all thinking too conventionally. This is the first console that I've been this excited about since back in the days of the 2600.

-S

[versapak]

Like I said, it's just a mockup. As far as I know there is no plan at this time to produce anything of the kind. I only posted it because at first glance the controller looks like a remote, but taken in conjunction with the analog stick attachment and given the other types of controllers that could potentially plug into it, it all starts to get very interesting - at least to me.

I'm sure there are other types of controllers that could plug into it that none of us have even thought of. I can't even imagine what might be on the horizon. At this point I think we're all thinking too conventionally. This is the first console that I've been this excited about since back in the days of the 2600.

-S

Yeah, I know it is just a mock-up.

It still just seems like a novelty to me. Nothing that has been said about it seems very revolutionary, or even just evolutionary, to me.

I admit that I am interested in finding out more about it, but all of the ideas, that have sprung forth thus far, just have me sitting here with a big "meh" look on my face.

I can not deny that the new Nintendo console is going to be, at the very least, interesting.

[ChadTower]

It's not what he is used to!

[JB]

We have not yet seen said classic controllers, thus I have no reason to consider them at this point. 

Actually, we already have for the NES. And it's even confirmed as a pack-in.

[shmokes]

Still, a steering wheel unit might be really inexpensive as it wouldn't have to have any electronic innards.  It could just have springs to bring it back to center and all the controlling would actually be taking place with the remote thingy.

[spiffyshoes]

Yeah but what about force feed back?  It would need some sort of electronic inards to deal with that wouldn't it.

Also maybe this is just me but having all of those little add-ons to make the controller play this game and that one just seems like it would be allot of clutter to me that could easily get lost and what not.

I'm intriuged with the main controller though.  It seems like there could be allot of possibilities for more interactivity with games.  I can see maybe swinging a tennis racket or a baseball bat but what about Zelda and Mario?  Ok so you could use it as a sword to swing around but can you really imagine it being easy to keep track of pushing buttons to say move around with one hand and swing your sword around with the other?  I certinly think it would be fun to try but untill I see it in action It just sounds like it would be something hard to do.

[GameOver]

I'm sure there are other types of controllers that could plug into it that none of us have even thought of. I can't even imagine what might be on the horizon. At this point I think we're all thinking too conventionally.

OMG!!!  You were right!  This is unbelievable...I was poking around the Nintendo website, clicked on one of the Mario's, and this popped up...

SA-WEET!  CURLING!

[shmokes]

Ok so you could use it as a sword to swing around but can you really imagine it being easy to keep track of pushing buttons to say move around with one hand and swing your sword around with the other?  I certinly think it would be fun to try but untill I see it in action It just sounds like it would be something hard to do.

It seems like it'd be fine to me.  We currently control link with one hand and swing the sword with the other.  We just push a button with our other hand currently. 

You know what would be fun?  A Jedi Knight game.  1st person light saber action.

[spiffyshoes]

Well think about it.

[shmokes]

uggh.....I don't want to play zelda standing up.  Here's how I envision it:

They'll keep the trigger lock that they've used since it was invented for Ocarina of time.  When you're not holding the trigger-lock, which puts you in battle-mode for all you non-zelda players, you will simply swing your sword by pressing the big A button, and perhaps the remote thingy can act as a free-look or something (but I'm thinking you'd want to hold down a button to change it to freelook mode so you wouldn't constantly have to worry about keeping your right hand perfectly still).  But then in battle mode, when the camera locks itself behind you and the screen letterboxes, the sword would move freely, mimicking the movements of the controller, or maybe certain combinations of slashes would trigger special moves that link would perform with spins and jumps and sommersaults, etc. since it's impractical and dangerous to do those things for real in your living room.  And if you hold the A button while you're in battle mode, he'll switch to his shield and you can move that around instead, blocking attacks.

Imagine some of the other weapons that would be fun to use.  The Hook Shot would be perfect...to actually point that little laser dot it uses and pull the trigger to fire.  Talk about immersion.  Or the boomerang could be done with flicks of the arm/wrist and pull the trigger or hit A to release.  You could even control how far you throw it and possibly even the angle, depending on how well that actually translated into the game.  They probably wouldn't want the learning curve to be too steep. 

Or the bow and arrow.....I was about to say that this is one that wouldn't really translate well without two motion controllers (one for the bow and one for the arrow), but how about this:  When the bow is selected link readies an arrow as soon as you pull the trigger on the motion controller.  At that point the free-look is triggered and you actually have to pull the remote backwards, away from the TV, and aim it, and release the trigger to fire.  Jesus, that's brilliant.

The grapling hook from the wind waker, or some kind of whip, Indiana Jones style, would work in obvious and effective ways.

So exciting.  Seriously, every time I think of some game genre it would suck at, I spend like 30 seconds thinking about how the game might be adapted to play with this controller and it sounds superior.  I already mentioned the quarterback helmet cam where you find your man and aim the ball with the motion stick, fire with the trigger, all the while running in whatever direction you want with the analog stick.  Just now I was thinking that stealth action games like Metal Gear and Splinter Cell wouldn't control well.  And maybe they wouldn't, but there are lots of possibilities.  Maybe when you hold the big A button on the remote thingy Sam Fisher will mimick it's orientation.  so if you stand by a wall and put the remote straight up-and-down he will flatten himself against the wall.  And then you can peek out around the corner by slowly tilting the controller at an angle.   The further you tilt it, the better view you get, but the greater your chances of being spotted.  While you're leaning out, if you pull the trigger you can shoot someone.  And if you push the A botton and hold the remote horizontally he will drop flat on the ground, or diagonal would be a crouch.

Fighters are especially tricky, but all it takes is some imagination and creativity.  There is just so much potential.  It would be a terrible waste if this isn't a succes.

I suspect that if I really thought all of these ideas out thoroughly that some of them wouldn't be practical or would create or be hampered by some complication or another.  I'm just whiping these out as they come to me.  Just brainstorming.   I guess my biggest point is simply that for the most part when you think of a game and how it is controlled and think, "Yeah....that can't be done on the Revolution.  What you mean to say is, that can't be done on the Revolution the way it's always been done before[/i]. 

And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Stingray]

Fighters are especially tricky, but all it takes is some imagination and creativity. 

The naysayers are all harping about there not being enough buttons for fighters to do the combos and so on. I say you no longer need all those buttons for combos. If you can remember that rotating the stick 3/4 of the way around anti-clockwise while simultaniously pressing A+B will create the SuperMegaDragonFireball Attack then you can remember that an anticlockwise twist of the controller followed by two quick jabs forward will produce the same thing. Again, I say we're all still thinking too inside the box (or control pad if you will). There are uses for this thing that none of us have come up with. Not that I dislike GameOver's curling controller.

-S

[ChadTower]

I fear button mashers now.

[shmokes]

Just wait for the lawsuits when some kid put his sister's eye out when he was playing Mario Tennis with that thing.

Speaking of which, tennis and golf should be interesting.

[ChadTower]

Hey, what's wrong with Johnny! 

I think he's having one of those epileptic videogame seizures.

No, wait, he's just trying to play Street Fighter Omega 256 Hyper Uberslpash but he doesn't know the controls.  That's how you button mash now.

[Stingray]

You guys should take a look at the Atari Age forums. There's a thread on this controller going there. Huge amount of unreasonable anger flying everywhere.

Over a game controller.

-S

[ChadTower]

AtariAge is more uptight than an 85 year old librarian sitting on a cactus.

[shmokes]

I'm racking my brain and cannot for the life of me figure out what word I can place in Chad's last post that would make sense, and trigger the auto censor.

 

edit:  Oh....I figured it out.  I'm retarded.

[Stingray]

Atari Age used to be a pretty laid back forum, but lately it's got more and more rabid fanboys screaming about why everything (excluding whatever they're into) sucks.

-S

[ChadTower]

That's not lately, it has always been that way.  Until recent years it was all Atari fanboys, though.  Now they have fanboys of all types, which means if you mention anything in any way someone is offended.

[Otraotaku]

quote from: shmokes

You know what would be fun?  A Jedi Knight game.  1st person light saber action.

Hell YESSSSS!!!!! just like Starwars Thrilogy ARCADE... ^.<

ponders the possibilitys...

[ChadTower]

Yeah, your wife standing behind you laughing at you... parties so you can dress up as the light saber kid... and one random vid of some 14 year old with the controller taped to his schlong, slaying enemies with his hardon.

[Otraotaku]

Yeah, your wife standing behind you laughing at you... parties so you can dress up as the light saber kid... and one random vid of some 14 year old with the controller taped to his schlong, slaying enemies with his hardon.

shhh... but i dont have a wife and im almost as young as that star wars kid, thank you very much... ^.<

we can dream... 

[Stingray]

we can dream... 

As long as your dream does not involve arousal, a roll of tape, and the new Nintendo controller, I'm 100% okay with that.

-S

[ChadTower]

He's like 15.  He's probably got a stiffy 80% of the time.

[Otraotaku]

He's like 15.  He's probably got a stiffy 80% of the time.

author=Stingray

As long as your dream does not involve arousal, a roll of tape, and the new Nintendo controller, I'm 100% okay with that.

-S

you guys need to remember that this is a sorta a family site... Claims charlie brown... (aka saint)   

btw im 17....

[Otraotaku]

I also want to add, Chad... if your just going to sit here and rant about how Stooooopid the Revolutions controller will be, why dont you start a Rant about PS3 having the same control style?, same unchanged genre type of ports?, and or Xbox's 360s success in ridding of buttons and making the controller almost identical to the Controller S?.... and of course all those old but simular games such as halo 3, and countless splinter cells, to come... that pathetic people without the mind or will to try anything new... Tst... GTA... lol

looks like you guys  also have alot to look forward to... sony fans and 360... yup...

                                 
                                          (Morrowind:OBLIVION!!!!!)X/3     
Good games to come         (Metal Gear: 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)PS3
    That I want...                 (SmashBros: 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)N/R

hmm... maybe then you can wonder why the efort from big companys such as Bungie and others seem to push out sequels to tittles that are only meant to sell consles but only  seem to get less and less thrilling then the originals? (ponders) theres a topic..



Theres plenty of things to rant and make fun of... hehe ^.<

This Impulse post was brought to you by:

CHEESE

The delicious dairy product of the future!
:Mooooooooo MMM mooo Good!

OtraOtaku is Awesome! and uh... so is Chad...  or whatever...

another way of showwing my youth... through post form ENJOY!

[pointdablame]

I keep thinking that I want to reply to this thread somehow....

But I have no damn idea what Otraotaku is talking about.  I can't even comprehend his posts.

[shmokes]

yeah, but he's bilingual.

[ChadTower]

I also want to add, Chad... if your just going to sit here and rant about how Stooooopid the Revolutions controller will be, why dont you start a Rant about PS3 having the same control style?, same unchanged genre type of ports?,

Because the PS3 could have the worst controller on the planet and I would not care.  I do not intend to buy a PS3.  I do not intend to buy an Xbox 360, either, though there is a slight chance of my buying one of those when they go on clearance in 2010.

BTW, I'm not saying the Revolution's controller is terrible.  I actually think it has some real potential and I have said here at least once that I have faith in Nintendo's ability to innovate.  What I do see here, though, is the potential for at least 150 directions in which we can take these controllers for good, funny material.

[Stingray]

yeah, but he's bilingual.

Ah, that explains it.

-S

[ChadTower]

A lot of people are bilingual.  So?

[shmokes]

So he probably would not make more sense on these message boards if he wrote a post in mandarin or something, in spite of better grammer whatnot.  It's just a shame to see a person discouraged from trying to communicate in a language they aren't as familiar with.  How else does one get good at it?  It's like saying, "Go away and come back when you can talk like you were born here."

[ChadTower]

So he probably would not make more sense on these message boards if he wrote a post in mandarin or something, in spite of better grammer whatnot.

[Otraotaku]

So he probably would not make more sense on these message boards if he wrote a post in mandarin or something, in spite of better grammer whatnot.  It's just a shame to see a person discouraged from trying to communicate in a language they aren't as familiar with.  How else does one get good at it?  It's like saying, "Go away and come back when you can talk like you were born here."

If he had the language skills of most native born Americans, he would be barely literate.  Half the people I graduated high school with can barely read.

lol, no im not bilingual...  (atleast not that i know of?) mutters under breathe, ^.< yes, I am american, but dont know my true origin... maybe german? lol... but I completely agree with that, more than 90% of my school  actually challange the teachers authority rather than chalange their mind....thus their academic abilitys arnt up to par with standards... I blame Rap + celebritys... urban culture etc...Digity Digity....

can you understand this? YOUR HEAD A SPLODE!

[ChadTower]

There was some truth and observation in there somewhere but he lost me at the second digity.

[shmokes]

LMAO....what can I say?  I tried.

[Otraotaku]

There was some truth and observation in there somewhere but he lost me at the second digity.

are you all in on  something i dont know about? cause im not laughing... i thought my post was pretty clear that time... 

what can it be!!!! tell me!!!!! arghhhhhhhh!!!!!

are all my posts really that ackward or confusing? i fail to see what i am missing?

maybe my brain needs to be patched up.... its been leaking for a few days now... *cough* COME ON! 

I started another language this summer... do you think thats affecting the way i think/write in my head?

im lost... 

[shmokes]

Well...Otra, periodically there are lines in your post like:

and countless splinter cells, to come... that pathetic people without the mind or will to try anything new... Tst... GTA... lol

It starts out okay, with some strange punctuation, but by the end of the sentence you trailed off into complete unintelligible nonsense.

As for your last part, I think the bit about the head a sploding made perfect sense as a sentence, but Chad probably had a difficult time figuring out how it related to the topic of your post.

[pointdablame]

It starts out okay, with some strange punctuation, but by the end of the sentence you trailed off into complete unintelligible nonsense.

That is pretty much how I feel about the posts I read by Otra.  I'm not knocking you, I"m really not.. its just most times, I don't even know how to respond to you since I can't be certain what your stance even is.

And sometimes your sentences are just nuts

[shmokes]

If you've got ten minutes check out this essay

It's a brilliant esasy analysing Nintendo's corporate strategy and how the new Revolution controller fits into that strategy.  It's totally fascinating and you will find lightbulbs going off in your head throughout the essay as you say, "ah ha," to yourself.

It also solidifies for me the belief that this new console is going to be VERY successful.  And even if they aren't the market leaders, per se, they will continue to be very profitable in spite of lagging behind their competitors.  Which is another reason to read it.  You will finally understand how Nintendo stays so profitable while Microsoft sells more and has never made a single cent on Xbox division.

[Otraotaku]

Well...Otra, periodically there are lines in your post like:

and countless splinter cells, to come... that pathetic people without the mind or will to try anything new... Tst... GTA... lol

It starts out okay, with some strange punctuation, but by the end of the sentence you trailed off into complete unintelligible nonsense.

As for your last part, I think the bit about the head a sploding made perfect sense as a sentence, but Chad probably had a difficult time figuring out how it related to the topic of your post.

It starts out okay, with some strange punctuation, but by the end of the sentence you trailed off into complete unintelligible nonsense.

That is pretty much how I feel about the posts I read by Otra. I'm not knocking you, I"m really not.. its just most times, I don't even know how to respond to you since I can't be certain what your stance even is.

And sometimes your sentences are just nuts

thanks for your guys's insight... lol... ill try to keep the wacky-ness of my posts to a near minimum next time that i post on a serious topic... (to lose the confusion)  sorry... 

[pointdablame]

no posts are serious around here

And that was a very interesting read Shmokes.. definitely worth a look

[brophog]

You will finally understand how Nintendo stays so profitable while Microsoft sells more and has never made a single cent on Xbox division.

The reason is Game Boy...........

[SirPoonga]

I've been watching the initial reviews of people using hte controller.  They say the tilt technology is pretty sensitive.  And form the demos there's alot of potential with it.  They have been loving the simple Metroid FPS demo.

I can see this controller actually making fishing games fun.

You know how there is neat idea games like Black & White and Darwinia tha tuse gestures.  This will easily be done on this controller.

Plus this controller will be good for genres that have never been good on a console.  You don;t find to many flight sims or RTS games on a system.  That's because the controls for them suck on most consoles.  Moving a cursor around with a previous controller sucked, look at starcraft for the consoles.  With this it will be natural for these types of games.

About nintendo trying to kill Sony and M$.  Not going to happen as Nintendo is obviously going for a different market.
Look at the gamecube, if they were going for the same market as xbox and ps2 it would have dvd playback, surround sound, etc...  No, they kept it simple.  They gear things more towards kids than the core gaming community (which is between the ages of 18-35).
Now, the revloution is the same way.  Backward compatibility with the the cube.  Also ever watch a kid play a video game, he's waving the controller all over the place with the action ont he screen.  So the tilt sensing should come pretty natural.
Also look at the button layouts of the cube and revolution.  Simple, one main button, A, and minor buttons available.

I see some possibilities.  Turn that SOB sideways and fire up a NES emulator.

Actually, that is the purpose of the design.  Remember you can download NES games with the revolution.


BTW, to the original poster, that isn't the real controller you have picced, it's photoshoped.

[SirPoonga]

If you've got ten minutes check out this essay

It's a brilliant esasy analysing Nintendo's corporate strategy and how the new Revolution controller fits into that strategy.  It's totally fascinating and you will find lightbulbs going off in your head throughout the essay as you say, "ah ha," to yourself.

It also solidifies for me the belief that this new console is going to be VERY successful.  And even if they aren't the market leaders, per se, they will continue to be very profitable in spite of lagging behind their competitors.  Which is another reason to read it.  You will finally understand how Nintendo stays so profitable while Microsoft sells more and has never made a single cent on Xbox division.

There's one thing I didn't like about the article

"Goodbye people on the fringes: The people on the fringes, however, are left out. In the evolution of the RTS genre, there was an interesting offshoot in the form of the Ground Control games. These sported an interesting 3D perspective that was never truly adopted by the mainstream RTS producers. Most players within the identifiable RTS market segment did not enjoy these games and so it was not in the best interest of the game developers to include the innovative features in their designs."

That's not why RTS hasn't changed much.  Many new technologies have been tried for RTS, but frankly the implementations sucked.  Look at WarZone 2100.  It was one of hte first RTS games to be rendered completely in 3D.  However the gameplay totally blowed.  All the units looked alike so it was hard to distinguish them in a crowd.

So it isn't that RTS hasn't changed because people expect and RTS to be 2D, it's because what had been made sucks as a game.  Starcraft is still the best RTS game out there to date. (though I prefer warcraft II).  There hasn't been anything new in game play. 

The new command and conquers are still basically the same thing as usual.

Warcraft III is ok, but it isn't really warcraft.  The whole hero thing made me think it was more of a role playing game with strategy added.  And I am not a big fan of RPGs.

This new controller isn't going to make RTS exciting.  It's just going to make it easier to play RTS games on the revolution.  But what the RTS genre needs is something new and exciting in gameplay but not have the implementation suck.

[Setabs]

Hey sting ray and anyone else complaining about the memory ports look closely at the picture.  There are two separate covers. one for memory ports another for GC ports.

[Stingray]

I wasn't complaing, only commenting that it stinks that the door has to be open when there's a card in there. The separate door is a good idea. I didn't notice it before, thanks for pointing it out.

-S

[Setabs]

Oh well.  I read that on the first page then read like 3 pages of other comments just to make sure I wasn't the 2nd or 3rd point that out.  Instead of trying to make new old controllers that the revalution plugs into they should just make a 10 or 15 dollar  adapter and remake the old controllers and charge 15 or 20 dollars for them.

[SirPoonga]

Oh well.  I read that on the first page then read like 3 pages of other comments just to make sure I wasn't the 2nd or 3rd point that out.  Instead of trying to make new old controllers that the revalution plugs into they should just make a 10 or 15 dollar  adapter and remake the old controllers and charge 15 or 20 dollars for them.

Why not have the gamecube controller ports?  It's all serial data being sent, a new port design isn;t going to change aynthing.  Especially when you main controller is wireless.

[ChadTower]

It will change how much revenue you can generate from new controllers.

[SirPoonga]

It will change how much revenue you can generate from new controllers.

How?  The new controllers are wireless.
If you meant older controllers than I will keep the gamecube hooked up instead of buying adaptors.

[ChadTower]

How?

[SirPoonga]

• Complete GC controller compatibility
• GC compatibility, but new features available on new controllers

One of the things I haven't seen here is whether or not those GC controllers can be used for any Revolution games, or if the Revolution controller can be used to play any GC games.  That will affect all of this too.

Right, because if the GC controllers can't be used, and I read somewhere they can't and are only for GC compatibility, then that only leaves the first option.

[Stingray]

Right, because if the GC controllers can't be used, and I read somewhere they can't and are only for GC compatibility...

Bummer, I was really hoping that they would work with Cube and Revo games.

-S

[ChadTower]

Right, because if the GC controllers can't be used, and I read somewhere they can't and are only for GC compatibility, then that only leaves the first option.

What if Nintendo wanted to add new features to GC controllers?  They could add turbo, macro, and things we haven't thought of yet.  And who says they can't release new GC games that would take advantage of features we don't know about yet?  Just because it's a bit older, doesn't mean they won't do it.  The GC has a known dev cycle and small games can be churned out fast.

[shmokes]

I don't think so.  Nintendo is the last company that would complicate their controllers with little-used features that appeal mainly to PC gamers.

[JB]

I don't think so.  Nintendo is the last company that would complicate their controllers with little-used features that appeal mainly to PC gamers.

Macro is a traditonal PC gamer feature, but turbo-fire is very much for the console side.

Of course, the feature's becoming less and less useful.

[PaulG]

I'm absolutely stoked about this controller.  The only genre that I see having potential issues is the fighting genre (Which has become really niche this gen anyway... at least compared to what it was a number of years ago).  Every other genre benefits greatly.  And the FPS genre?  It'll get me back to playing these things on consoles.  The last FPS console game I played was two years ago.  Because of the impending XBox 360 release, I tried a friend's Doom 3 on the XBox to see what my tolerance level was, and no.  I will give the genre up before I'd play those game on sticks again.

And I'm surprised at so much resistence on THESE boards.  In the last 1.5 years since I built my CP, I've begun to agree with everything Iwata has stated.  And the dual analog joystick.  I respect it as the most utilitarian joystick ever, but it's become my least favorite config ever.  This thing is all about the fun that arcade controls bring.  If they get decent third-party support (And a bunch of big name developers seem school-girl giddy over it), this thing truly could sweep a revolution.

Unless Nintendo has really polished the motion sensing of this unit. I'm thinking it's going to just be another worthless gimmick.

Wired, 1UP, IGN, Gamespot, and Game Informer all had invited passes for hands on with the controller and it seems they have polished it to a fine sheen.

[ChadTower]

I don't think so.  Nintendo is the last company that would complicate their controllers with little-used features that appeal mainly to PC gamers.

Who says those are the only two possibilities?  Those are just the first two that occurred to me.

I could definitely see them sustaining Cube support, with new games overlapping the Revolution release.  You can play them on the Cube or... hey, look, the game has 4 features you can only access on the Revolution!  Plus you need the GC+ controller, which you can also only use on the Revolution.

[shmokes]

If they're careful about it, I suppose.  Kind of like the extra little features you can add to games like Animal Crossing if you have a GBA and a link cable.  But I think they could get themselves into trouble introducing too much segmentation into their market.  It's like MS with their core and premium packages.  Developers don't want to ask themselves, "Okay, which segment of Revolution owners do I want to alienate?  If it's like a rumble pak where a person who doesn't have it can still play the game just fine, then you might see something like that.

..and so on.

[MrTroy]

If they're careful about it, I suppose. Kind of like the extra little features you can add to games like Animal Crossing if you have a GBA and a link cable. But I think they could get themselves into trouble introducing too much segmentation into their market. It's like MS with their core and premium packages. Developers don't want to ask themselves, "Okay, which segment of Revolution owners do I want to alienate? If it's like a rumble pak where a person who doesn't have it can still play the game just fine, then you might see something like that.

..and so on.

Nintendo would do that with no regards. It's not a case of "You can't finish the game unless you have this." but Nintendo has done that before with... Super Gameboy. Oooh playing portable games on your SNES gives you differentbackgrounds(I'm not sure whatelse it did) But the Capcom Seasons/Ages Zelda games. Play it on a GBA and you get something> I don't remember what. One of the other Zelda games. If you played it on I think Gameboy Color it gave you a whole hidden level. That kinda stuff may not seem like a big deal.

One good thing is though> I can use all 4 GC controllers with my Revolution.

[SirPoonga]

Nintendo would do that with no regards. It's not a case of "You can't finish the game unless you have this." but Nintendo has done that before with... Super Gameboy.

Yes, and Perfect Dark for the N64 needed the memory upgrade.

What if Nintendo wanted to add new features to GC controllers? They could add turbo, macro, and things we haven't thought of yet. And who says they can't release new GC games that would take advantage of features we don't know about yet? Just because it's a bit older, doesn't mean they won't do it. The GC has a known dev cycle and small games can be churned out fast.

It could be possible to add the tilt technology to the controller.  Otherwise other features have been added with 3rd party controllers.  MadCatz have macros.

[ChadTower]

Yes, by third parties.  Not by Nintendo.  I'm talking about first party controllers. 

[Stingray]

Yes, and Perfect Dark for the N64 needed the memory upgrade.

As did DK 64 and Zelda MM.

-S

[SirPoonga]

Yes, by third parties.  Not by Nintendo.  I'm talking about first party controllers. 

Right, but if you go back to what I started this fork in the conversation...

I doubt someone will make a game for a controller with new features unless Nintendo has already made the controller.  And at this time they would have probably mentioned something about it when they mentioned backwards compatibility.
However, if they do something it will be a gimick feature as I'd assume the controller could possibly work in the GC without the feature or a game will have to work on the GC without the features.  If it is a game that uses the feature then it isn't going to be essential to the gameplay, just an extra that makes life a little easier.  Link a rumble pack for Ocarina of Time.  Not needed but makes finding the secrets in the game MUCH easier. 
If it is a game that can only work on the Revolution with a new GC controller that has the new features then it shouldn't be advertised as a GC game since it can't be played on a GC.

I do see nintendo realized they di something good on the n64 that they didn;t do on the GC, expansion ports on the controller.  They realized that was a good thing with the Revolution in that they can add on new ideas/features later on.

I'm still waiting for the day a small color LCD is built into the controller.  The VMU for the DC was cool, but there wasn't much you could do with it.  Now think if you had a decent resolution color LCD.  For a game like splinter cell you can put the spy cam pic on the controller which leaves the main view to watch if enemies come nearby.  Or games like football you can do your play calling/audibles on the LCD so the opponant can't see what you are doing.   Have you seen what cell phones, even the cheap ones, can do these days?

[MrTroy]

I'm still waiting for the day a small color LCD is built into the controller.  The VMU for the DC was cool, but there wasn't much you could do with it.  Now think if you had a decent resolution color LCD.  For a game like splinter cell you can put the spy cam pic on the controller which leaves the main view to watch if enemies come nearby.  Or games like football you can do your play calling/audibles on the LCD so the opponant can't see what you are doing.   Have you seen what cell phones, even the cheap ones, can do these days?

The GBA to GC was  great thing, It had so much potential. Unfortunately it was a case of no one wanted to do things with it cause they weren't sure who had the cable a GBA etc. While that LCD add-on sounds like a great thing. I'd be kinda scared that it'd slip out durring my wild flailings. And another case of the Catch 22 as well. Who'll want to support it. At least with Dreamcast the VMU was also the memory card(Unless like 90% of my friends, you buy a 3rd party one to be cheap).

[SirPoonga]

I'd be kinda scared that it'd slip out durring my wild flailings.

Do you not have a cell phone with a color screen?  I don;t have a flip phone, just a normal Nokia.  The screen is pretty scratched up now, but still works fine.

[ChadTower]

I'd be kinda scared that it'd slip out durring my wild flailings.

Do you not have a cell phone with a color screen?

[SirPoonga]

pretty interesting read
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

I thought that shell was a photoshop, but apparently it is real.  That ain't too bad then.

It would be cool to make an arcade control that you just stick the revolution controller in.

[versapak]

Well...

That shell pictured IS Photoshopped.

Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.

-IGN.com

[Stingray]

That picture may be Photoshopped, but Nintendo has said that something like it will be available. That should make everyone happy controller-wise.

-S

[SirPoonga]

I like the gun concept ign has done too.

That's why i like this controller, it's expandable.  You can make it into whatever control you need.

[shmokes]

Yes and no.  In theory the controller can become the engine, so to speak, inside a myriad of shells, but in practice it won't happen.  Developers have little interest in deliberately shrinking their potential market.  A few variations will emerge, a fishing reel, a gun, a steering wheel maybe, but that's about it.  Probably 99% of revolution software will only be compatible with the remote thingy and the included analog stick attachment.

So, IMO, you shouldn't give it too many points on expandability because, while I agree that developers CAN make it whatever control they need it to be, I do not believe that they will.  I think that for the most part you should judge it based on its potential out-of-the-box, since that's what the vast majority of developers will program around.  Fortunately, that potential is still enormous even without the expandability.

[SirPoonga]

You haven't seen nintendo's past, have you?  ROB, Power Pad, Mario Paint, any lightgun.

Also look at the games that were released that forced you to buy something like the ps/2 harddrive and ethernet controller or Perfect Dark forcing you to get the memory upgrade for the N64.

So this nintendo controller makes it easier on the hardware designers.  It should make creating a new peripheral easier and cheaper.

[ChadTower]

You're both right in a way.  Third parties will not make heavy use of that ability, and third parties make most games.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has a history of making special controllers and out of the box games.  They also have a history of making most of the best games on their own platforms.  It is the first party games that drive Nintendo sales and it will be first party games that drive new controllers.  It fits perfectly with Nintendo's history and this controller's design.

[SirPoonga]

That is true.  But there will be third parties too.  Like I said, it didn't stop some companies for releaseing games on the ps/2 that required the hard drive or ethernet controller.

Of course most games or going to use whatever controllers Nintendo offers.  That's traditional.  You aren't going to make money if every game has it's own controller.

[SirPoonga]

I'm going to predict that the best game to use the new features of the controller will be from the Zelda team.  Just because there are so many actions in a Zelda game that could benefit from it.  Everyone has been saying it would be cool to use it to slash the sword.  Yes, it would.  But think about all the mini games in a Zelda title.  Like Ocarina of Time, it probably would make the target shooting and fishing minigame fun.

[ChadTower]

A Wario World update would be able to make 1000 uses of it, and very simple ones at that.

Mario Party would take on a whole new level of partiosity (dig that word).

[Stingray]

A sequel to Luigi's Mansion that uses the new controller would be fantastic.

-S

[shmokes]

You haven't seen nintendo's past, have you?  ROB, Power Pad, Mario Paint, any lightgun.

But in a way, you reinforce what I am saying.  Look at that list.  Pretty short when you're talking about a 20-year history.  Further:

ROB:  Abject failure
NES gun: Included with every system -- no segmenting the market
SNES gun: Abject failure
Mario Paint: Kinda cool, virtually no third party support (of first party support beyond the one game)

I think the memory upgrade is the best example of a peripheral actually working out.  Acclaim was the first company to take the risk and require it for a Turok game, IIRC.  It actually sold in large enough numbers that other developers saw it as reasonably viable.  Then Donky Kong 64 was released and was actually bundled with the memory pak.  At that point so many people had it that it wasn't a big deal to require it for a game like Perfect Dark (which was made by the same team that populated so many N64's with the memory pak via DK64).

There will, of course, be specialized controllers, but there will not be many and the ones that are made will probably only ever support a single game and perhaps a sequel, a la the Gamecube Donkey Konga bongos, and will be sold as a bundle with the game. 

[SirPoonga]

There will, of course, be specialized controllers, but there will not be many and the ones that are made will probably only ever support a single game and perhaps a sequel, a la the Gamecube Donkey Konga bongos, and will be sold as a bundle with the game. 

But that was my point about stressing the expandability.  We will probably see more of things like this because it should be cheaper or create a custom controller as the wireless and such will be coming from the revolution controller.

[shmokes]

Could be, I suppose.  If bundling some kind of controller shell only added a few dollars to production costs maybe it'll turn out to be relatively common.  More and more potential for creativity with this thing all the time.

[Felsir]

Nintendo, on the other hand, has a history of making special controllers and out of the box games.

[ChadTower]

ROB:

[SirPoonga]

right, if the gun came with every system why are there dedicated duck hunt carts?

[ChadTower]

The same reason they sold SMB at retail... because they could.

[shmokes]

Hmm...I guess since they all came with guns in the beginning, when my family got a Nintendo, I had no reason to think that not everyone had one.  Afterall, it's not like the people who did have them EVER had them hooked up.  prolly 90% of NES lightguns have spent their entire lives in a cupboard or box with the cord wrapped around the barrel.

[ChadTower]

I didn't have one until later, but once I did, I was a Duck Hunt maniac.  I love light gun games.  I even liked Gotcha, one of the worst games ever.

Long Live Hogan's Alley.

I have a NIB Zapper on a shelf at home as a tribute.

[shmokes]

I also love light gun games.  They were just nearly non-existant for the NES.  And let's not talk about the state of SNES light gun gaming.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, light gun gaming got really neglected in the 16 bit era.  It sprang to life spectacularly in the 32 bit era.

[nullb0y]

what ive heard through the lines is that there going to release older controllers and basically emulate the classics on a payment system but i bet there going to charge to much where u could buy the old system and games cheaper

[brophog]

Yeah, light gun gaming got really neglected in the 16 bit era.

[shmokes]

Saturn and Playstation both had good lightgun games, mainly from Sega and Namco.

[ChadTower]

Saturn had awesome light gun games.  HOTD is incredible, especially for a Saturn game.

[brophog]

I totally missed the Saturn. Looking back on the games it had, I regret it.

[Otraotaku]

Saturn had awesome light gun games.  HOTD is incredible, especially for a Saturn game.

dont forget one of my favs... VC1-2 (virtua Cop 1-2) ^.<

[ChadTower]

Oh, I did not forget... I spent hundreds of hours in college playing VC 1+2 on my 13" TV... I may still be able to beat VC1 on one credit.