4Ghz Core 2 Duo vs M.A.M.E. 0.120 (benchmark results)

[BASS!]

Awesome, and functional approach, thanks a lot for the reply. Ive built tons of machines and done some overclocking, but I like your method better than mine, which is dabble with the fsb and voltage until it wont boot. Then if it starts to die in windows back it off.

[headkaze]

I must admit I'm a little hessitant to do this now judging by the explaination there taz lol.

I have an Asus P5KR motherboard, E8400 @ 3Ghz, 2xPC5300 1 GB (which I believe is 667 Mhz).

I have the ASUS overclocking software AISuite installed and I'm staring at the screen. I really can't afford to screw this PC up, just how risky is overclocking? I have reasonable air cooling but I run this PC 24/7. If I overclock can I run it like that all the time or should I only do it for when I need the extra speed?

Here is a screenshot I took of AISuite. What temperatures should I be expecting and what temps should I be worried about?

[divemaster127]

Taz is a better overclocker than I am, but unless he disagrees I prefer to overclock from the bios, a rule of thumb for me is 25% overclock then I usually just call it good.
dm

[lanman31337]

DM, I know you have some AMD x2 rigs - have you tried ocing your rigs, and do they do well with mame?  I have a 4800+ for my mame rig.

[divemaster127]

Before I started all of the upgrade I went from:
first mame was a
1st: 4000 amd+
2nd : 4600 x2
3rd: 5200 x2
4th: 6600 quad
5th 6850 dual core

To be honest with a lot of wasted money I did not see a difference until I hit the intel dual or quad cores... the chd roms ran about the same on 1,2, & 3
dm

[BASS!]

I am by no means the expert taz is, but I can at least help break it down a little bit

DM, I know you have some AMD x2 rigs - have you tried ocing your rigs, and do they do well with mame?  I have a 4800+ for my mame rig.

The best athlon Ive run on is a 64 3200 and got it up to 2.6ghz. And yes they do well for mame rigs, you just wont be able to play gauntlet legends / NFL blitz. The first time Ive seen these playable is with Taz's quad core benchmarks.

I must admit I'm a little hessitant to do this now judging by the explaination there taz lol.
I have an Asus P5KR motherboard, E8400 @ 3Ghz, 2xPC5300 1 GB (which I believe is 667 Mhz).

I have the ASUS overclocking software AISuite installed and I'm staring at the screen. I really can't afford to screw this PC up, just how risky is overclocking? I have reasonable air cooling but I run this PC 24/7. If I overclock can I run it like that all the time or should I only do it for when I need the extra speed?

Here is a screenshot I took of AISuite. What temperatures should I be expecting and what temps should I be worried about?

The temps he is talking about is what looks like a bug in the chip itself. Toms hardware wrote an article on this and they also posted a big one about overclocking your chip.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/19/wolfdale_on_steroids/
The temps skyrocket on one core and not the other and give bad readings on some of the earlier versions. You may have one, you may not, don't worry about it.

The rest he can break down, but before he does i recommend doing some basic reading about what overclocking is exactly. Learn about

Multipliers
Front side bus speed
Vcore - processor voltage
Memory overclocking - ie ram and ram timings like 4-4-4-12


The

If done right and with a little luck it will be nice and stable at these settings, now you need to torture test your CPU with something like Orthos, to take it to 100% load and hold it there for hours, I suggest at least 10 hours for you final test with the PC house as it will be in operation. Keep an eye on the CPU tempature and make sure it stays within safe limits anything up to 65 degs C is ok, over that is getting hot, and if it gets to 80 Deg C it will more than likely lockup before it can do any real harm, you really want it in the 20-30s at idle and in the 40s to low 50s at full noise. If it pass that it should be ready to use, it you want to further test it warm up the room tempature to that of a hot summers day and test it again for 24 hours, if it pass that you good to go.

Then all your've got to do is have fun.

Make sure your BIOS and Drivers are up to date before you start, I suggest using CPUz to get Live actual CPU speed & voltage information, the lastest CoreTemp is you best bet for watching CPU core temps, Orthos does a great job of stress you CPU & RAM to in limits (use blend test) and Windows task manager will confirm your CPU is at 100% load on all cores.

Just take your time, and test each new setup with orthos as you go.

This is important. Programs like orthos and prime95 help you to max out your cpu to burn it in. Cpu-z will help you pull the temp off your cpu. I don't know what I'm missing and I hope I helped in some small way.

[taz-nz]

I must admit I'm a little hessitant to do this now judging by the explaination there taz lol.

I have an Asus P5KR motherboard, E8400 @ 3Ghz, 2xPC5300 1 GB (which I believe is 667 Mhz).

I have the ASUS overclocking software AISuite installed and I'm staring at the screen. I really can't afford to screw this PC up, just how risky is overclocking? I have reasonable air cooling but I run this PC 24/7. If I overclock can I run it like that all the time or should I only do it for when I need the extra speed?

Here is a screenshot I took of AISuite. What temperatures should I be expecting and what temps should I be worried about?

Overclocking is easy once you get to grips with the basics and get an understanding of what all the bios setting do, everything effect everything else, that's why you need to it in stages otherwise it becomes almost impossible to work out where you when wrong. If you have questions as to what all those option in bios do, hit me with it, I'll do my best to explain, just don't ask me to explain it all at once.

Your memory will be your biggest issue, DDR2-667 like you have runs at 333mhz double pumped, so the 333mhz FSB of you CPU puts your memory at it's maximum stock speed straight away, say your aim for 4ghz with your CPU, for memory would end up almost 50% overclocked to get there, now that a big push for most memory and outside what I would rate as practical or save, you best option would be to be dump your current memory on a friend or family member with a PC in need of a bit more get up and go, and grab yourself a couple of GB of good DDR2-800 or better yet DDR2-1066 RAM. Memory is dirt cheap these days so it doesn't have to cost you the earth. Then as long as you have a good aftermarket heatsink, you should be good to go.

Software overclocking has it's place, but it doesn't give you access to nearly as many setting to adjust, so it soon limits the level of overclocking you can achive, There are a number of bios features that needed to be disable before any form or overclocking is attempted, as they will cause stability issues with an overclocked CPU, so you end up having to change BIOS settings anyway so you may as well just do it all in BIOS where you'll get the best results.

Overclocking very safe as long as you don't push things too far, too much Voltage or heat and things can get nasty, A good heatsink & Powersupply are a must. The thing to remember is the Core 2 Duo is not an Athlon XP, the Core 2 Duo has great built in safeties for heat and will shut it self down if needed before any damage is done, just be smart about it, if  you crank the FSB up to 600mhz and pumping 1.8v into your CPU and having it run a 75degs you would just be asking for trouble.

Those tempatures look normal for a stock setup, I would expect lower temps if you were using an aftermarket cooler, but it depends of the room temp and the design of your case.

Taz is a better overclocker than I am, but unless he disagrees I prefer to overclock from the bios, a rule of thumb for me is 25% overclock then I usually just call it good.
dm

25% is a good overclock for most CPUs, but the Core 2 Duo is a whole other league with the average overclock falling in the 33%-75% range, they have so much head room it's basically a crime not to overclock them, you can get 25% overclocks with the stock heatsink I many cheaper models.

DM, I know you have some AMD x2 rigs - have you tried ocing your rigs, and do they do well with mame?  I have a 4800+ for my mame rig.

The Athon64 x2 overclock well, the last one I had in my primary system was overclocked by about 40%, and they do well in MAME to a point, but they can't jump the preformance gulf between what is needed to run most ROM and what is required to run all ROM (well almost all). They just don't have the preformance to clock ratio that the Core 2 Duo does, and the extreme overclockablity (is that even a word) of Core 2 Duo only widens the preformace gap between the two CPUs.


If I had the spare cash laying around I'd probably grab a GA-G33M-DS2R boarch and transfer over my CPU, Heatsink and ram to it, and benchmark it to see if using the onboard graphics had any negative on MAME preformance, because if it didn't then it would be a good choice for people trying to slim down the cost of preformance MAME system. The board is well documented as a great overclocker, with people run anywhere up to 500fsb and some beyond. When the next shipment of stock comes in a work, I may have to see if I get the boss to lead me one for a week to test, it's not likely to happen but it's possible.

[Jdurg]

With my tax refund I went out an got myself a new laptop with a 2.50 GHz T9300 Core2Duo CPU in there.  I just ran MK4 on a non-optimized, 64-bit version of MAMEUI64 and had a VERY playable session.  I was averaging about 90% in game and was at 100% for many of the cut scenes.  I was very shocked to see such good performance from a relatively low-speed CPU.  I'm also running 64-bit Windows Vista which I have yet to optimize yet.

[Tiger-Heli]

I have the ASUS overclocking software AISuite installed and I'm staring at the screen. I really can't afford to screw this PC up, just how risky is overclocking? I have reasonable air cooling but I run this PC 24/7. If I overclock can I run it like that all the time or should I only do it for when I need the extra speed?

HK - I ended up not spending the money on a new rig - but in your case, I really like the advice The Manuel posted on Page 3 (at the bottom) of this thread:

Finally, to extend the life of the processor, I set my power scheme to laptop/portable so that EIST kicks in and the CPU multiplier is knocked down to 6X form 9X while the computer is idle or doing light duty like browsing the web or playing pacman :-) but immediately goes to full throttle when more processing power is required.  As a result, my 2.7GHz is running at 1.8GHz most of the time which happens to be the stock speed.

[BASS!]

So sweet!!!!!!! Got the processor in the mail today, and built the machine. The processor came in at 3ghz on first boot, I updated the bios and did a burn in. After some tweaking I got this up to 4ghz. The e8400 is amazing. If you don't have a newer processor yet, you have to buy this. To Taz - You helped a lot with the timings and the ocing. K back to the burn in. Ill let ya know in the morning how it all turned out.

[taz-nz]

So sweet!!!!!!! Got the processor in the mail today, and built the machine. The processor came in at 3ghz on first boot, I updated the bios and did a burn in. After some tweaking I got this up to 4ghz. The e8400 is amazing. If you don't have a newer processor yet, you have to buy this. To Taz - You helped a lot with the timings and the ocing. K back to the burn in. Ill let ya know in the morning how it all turned out.

  Sweet dude, Welcome to the 4ghz club,

I'd being interested to know what voltages etc your running once you've got it all tweaked and tested.

[BASS!]

K here is my full dump from cpu-z to see how I have it set. To keep things organized I am going to make 2 posts :-)

Processor(s)    Number of processors            1 Number of cores               2 per processor Number of threads         2 per processor Name               Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Code Name            Wolfdale Specification             Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz Package                    Socket 775 LGA Family/Model/Stepping         6.7.6 Extended Family/Model         6.17 Core Stepping            C0 Technology            45 nm Core Speed            4005.1 MHz Multiplier x Bus speed         9.0 x 445.0 MHz Rated Bus speed                 1780.1 MHz Stock frequency            3000 MHz Instruction sets         MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, EM64T L1 Data cache (per processor)      2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size L1 Instruction cache (per processor)   2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size L2 cache (per processor)      6144 KBytes, 24-way set associative, 64-byte line size Chipset & Memory    Northbridge            Intel P35/G33/G31 rev. A2 Southbridge            Intel 82801IB (ICH9) rev. 02 Graphic Interface         PCI-Express PCI-E Link Width         x16 PCI-E Max Link Width         x16 Memory Type            DDR2 Memory Size            2048 MBytes Memory Frequency         445.0 MHz (1:1) CAS# Latency (tCL)         5.0 clocks RAS# to CAS# (tRCD)         6 clocks RAS# Precharge (tRP)         6 clocks Cycle Time (tRAS)         17 clocks Command Rate (CR)         2T System    System Manufacturer         Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. System Name            P35-DS3L System S/N    Mainboard Vendor         Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. Mainboard Model                 P35-DS3L BIOS Vendor            Award Software International, Inc. BIOS Version            F8a BIOS Date            12/06/2007 Memory SPD    Module 1            DDR2, PC2-6400 (400 MHz), 1024 MBytes, G.Skill Module 2            DDR2, PC2-6400 (400 MHz), 1024 MBytes, G.Skill Software    Windows Version                 Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)

[BASS!]

Vcore - 1.512
memory - 1.170
Pci - 1.55 (stock)

[divemaster127]

Quick question why is the 8400 cheaper than the E6850 on newegg.

[u_rebelscum]

Quick question why is the 8400 cheaper than the E6850 on newegg.

'Cause it's "Out Of Stock", so you can't buy it anyway?

edit: speeling

[taz-nz]

Quick question why is the 8400 cheaper than the E6850 on newegg.

Warning Geek stuff!!

Because the (Wolfdale) E8#00 series Core 2 Duos are manufactured using 45nm process they, the transistors they are made of are smaller than those found in the E6#50 series which is manufactured using a 65nm process, so while the E8400 has more Cache memory and thus more transistors in it than an e6850, it's actually has a small die 107 mm² compared with the e6850s 143 mm², Now this effects cost for three main reasons, because the Core 2 Duo are manufactured on the same 300mm silicon wafers that cost the same no matter what CPU you make with them, the smaller the die the more you CPUs you can make from one silicon wafer and thus the cheaper they are, also a smaller die means they can shuffle them arround a on the silicon wafer more to cut down on wasted space that can't be used around the edges of the silicon wafer this reducing costs, all Silicon wafers will have a few defects in them at the end of the manufacturing process, die that a layed down over these areas will be defective and thus end up as waste, now the small dia is less likely to have a defect in it that a larger die, and there is less wasted silicon when a small dia is defective. These plus a host of other things mean Intel can produce the E8400 a lot cheaper than they can an E6850 thus the price is lower, also there are market forces at work to.

I could have just said they are small so they are cheap, but where's the fun in that.   Oh and before anyone asks why they make square chips on a round wafer, it's because each layer of the chip is added to the center of the wafer as a liquid as the wafer is spun at speed, this makes for a near perfect application of the liquid accross the whole surface of the Silicon wafer.

'Cause it's "Out Of Stock", so you can't buy it anyway?

He's right too, lots of online stored do it with new or very popular products that are unavilable, they dump the price to get people to their site, hoping once there they will buy something else.

[BASS!]

Allrighty, Im back with the final update. This whole pc cost $600 in brand new parts and it screams. I ran the benchmark for around 24hrs and it is stable as a mule. Even with the full torture test running on both cores (which means processor usage is pegged at 100%) it stayed a solid 65c-66c. I am now running idle, because im bored of prime numbers, and my temp is sitting steady at 42c-44c. Once I re-download my chds and roms ill do some benchmarks to see what this mammer jammer can do.

*on a side note, has anyone in the community thought to build a program similar to 3d mark that benches your system and automates frame rate tracking based on the most troublesome mame games? I'd love to help, but I don't know if I have the patience to sit and test every beefy game.

[ids]

Quick question why is the 8400 cheaper than the E6850 on newegg.

Warning Geek stuff!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, in this case, they were able to reuse a lot of the fabrication stuff.  Often when going to a smaller die, there is a huge investment in equipment that needs to be recovered.

[Jdurg]

Another nice thing that we've all seemed to find out about recent Intel chips is that their ability to produce CPUs that can run at a high speed is phenomenal.  They are doing such a good job at making chips that can run at high speeds that they are forced to take some of these high-speed CPUs and lock them down to a lower default speed in order to fill demand for that CPU speed.  Therefore, we are able to overclock the living hell out of them and get great CPU speeds on our CPUs.  For all intents and purposes, Intel would have loved to have sold those CPUs as a high speed variety, but not everybody out there can afford those chips and they had to "lower them down" to meet demand.   

[BASS!]

If they unlocked the multiplier on this chip, god only knows how fast we could get it going. Toms hardware did a pretty good writeup about what this chip can do. http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/19/wolfdale_on_steroids/
Back in the day you could go crazy with the overclocking, but any test required the usage of pretty extreme cooling. Their test sample never got that hot, and they even ripped the cover off the chip to see if they could cool it better, but that did not work. It seems as if they built in a cap in the fsb speed.

[BASS!]

Oh darn, I was typing so long my session timed out, so I lost my huge post aarrgh, so here I go trying to remember everything I just wrote. 

Hello again, I am still in the process of downloading the full chd set for this rom version (122u3 i think it is up to so far) and I was wanting to do some set up before everything finishes tomorrow. I have only ever really configured mame via mamui or other front end, and I was wondering what the best settings would be for my setup. My full specs are above, and I am only running xp 32 bit. I am running mame 123u1 w/ highscore.diff files for this version (compiled using mame compiler 64). I just ran mame and it was getting a bit of screen tearing (is it teering or tearing...whatever) and I just wanted to work that out as well.

On a side note, is there any advantage from running mame via xp64 over xp32, othen then ram addressing? I have looked all over and have found to actual in depth explanation. Am I just holding my awesome proc back because of my os?

[BASS!]

Ok, Im sorry, asked a question you allready answered like 4 times in this thread

 

On a side note, is there any advantage from running mame via xp64 over xp32, othen then ram addressing? I have looked all over and have found to actual in depth explanation. Am I just holding my awesome proc back because of my os?

Oh boy, I just set this whole machine up using xp32, and now I need to dump all the data I have onto another machine to load vista. I am so against vista and all I have ever seen/read about it has been, its slow slow slow slow. Do you know if they make tinyVista64?

[Jdurg]

Ok, Im sorry, asked a question you allready answered like 4 times in this thread

 

On a side note, is there any advantage from running mame via xp64 over xp32, othen then ram addressing? I have looked all over and have found to actual in depth explanation. Am I just holding my awesome proc back because of my os?

Oh boy, I just set this whole machine up using xp32, and now I need to dump all the data I have onto another machine to load vista. I am so against vista and all I have ever seen/read about it has been, its slow slow slow slow. Do you know if they make tinyVista64?

A lot of what you've read is exaggeration, exaggeration, exaggeration.  It's just an instinct to lash out and bash a new Microsoft product.  Is Vista somewhat slower than XP?  Yes, but it's easy to tweak and XP isn't exactly the speed demon it's cracked out to be.  It took quite a while to get it to where it is right now.

In Vista, I've found that my software loads MUCH quicker, my internet speed seems to be twice what it is on my XP system, and I have yet to have any problems that I didn't cause myself.  So don't go into Vist with poor expectations and a bad attitude.  Open your mind up a bit and you'll be pleasently surprised.  I'm now liking Vista quite a bit and know that it will be getting even better as time goes on.   

[BASS!]

Ok, I am getting tinyvista rev01 right now, and I'll load it as soon as I am done with this dling I'm doing.

[illtww]

Alright Guys...

I have a 3.0ghz E2140 running Winxp Pro.  1gb ddr2 ram

I am using MameUI (32 bit version)

Is that not enough oomph to rung gauntlet Legends / NFL Blitz?   

Do I need to change to another OS??  Where can I get a build that is optimized for
our Dual Core Intel Procs?

Thanks,
Travis
 

[taz-nz]

Alright Guys...

I have a 3.0ghz E2140 running Winxp Pro.  1gb ddr2 ram

I am using MameUI (32 bit version)

Is that not enough oomph to rung gauntlet Legends / NFL Blitz?  

Do I need to change to another OS??  Where can I get a build that is optimized for
our Dual Core Intel Procs?

Thanks,
Travis
 

Nice overclock, that's almost a 90% overclock. 

Running 64bit OS is a must if you want to get the most out of MAME when running on a Core 2 Duo. You will probably want another gigabyte of ram too, as Vista 64 is your best option when it comes to 64bit OS and it needs 2gb to run well.

MAME preformance scales almost 1 for 1 with CPU clockspeed, so a 3ghz you should land in the 105-120% range on these ROMs running MAME 64bit, which is pushing it a little, you really want a hard 120%+ to be sure that the games will run well perfectly. Also I'm not sure what, if any effect the smaller Cache on the E2140 will have on your preformance.

Optimized build had a noticable effect in the pass, but that gains seem to be been reduced with the 64bit builds. I tried compiling a 64bit optimized build the other day to test ,but 64bit compiling still seems to beyond me, it alway stops with errors but I'm still working on it, it can't be that hard.

 

[headkaze]

*on a side note, has anyone in the community thought to build a program similar to 3d mark that benches your system and automates frame rate tracking based on the most troublesome mame games? I'd love to help, but I don't know if I have the patience to sit and test every beefy game.

Get a program called "Fraps" it can overlay the FPS on a Direct3D program in realtime.

taz-nz: Have you checked out Mame Compiler 64 in the software forum? It can compile 64 bit versions of Mame now. The only thing I'm unsure of though is if the optimization flags are only for the GCC compiler and not for the cl.exe 64 bit compiler found in the Platform SDK (which is used to compile 64 bit versions). So in other words I'm not sure if compiling your own version of Mame64 will result in a binary any different the official one you can download at mamedev.org. Anyway install Mame Compiler 64 just to get the environment setup and check out the MinGW\source\Mame0123 folder for a batch file that demonstrates compiling Mame64 manually.

[illtww]

I may get it to 3.2....   

Is there a build on the net of  Vista 64 that is "nlighted" so to speak? 

I have 2 1gb sticks of Balistick Ram I can snap in there..

Will 1.5 gigs work?

[BASS!]

What you want is the Microsoft.Windows.Vista.Ultimate.x64.Integrated.January.2008.OEM and take that and run vlite on it. Remove all the fat and install.

[Popcorrin]

I see that there are big increases with running 64bit mame under 64bit vista.  What about 64bit mame under 64bit xp has anybody tried that?

I'm guessing that these benchmarks don't take into account the speed decrease for ingame as compared to attract mode.  In most 3d games I have noticed anywhere up to 50% decrease in speed during ingame gameplay.

[taz-nz]

I see that there are big increases with running 64bit mame under 64bit vista.  What about 64bit mame under 64bit xp has anybody tried that?

I'm guessing that these benchmarks don't take into account the speed decrease for ingame as compared to attract mode.  In most 3d games I have noticed anywhere up to 50% decrease in speed during ingame gameplay.

I run the benchmarks for 240 and not 100 game secs for this reason, While many games display title and high score screens when running attract mode that can bump the average benchmark, they only make up a small part of the attract mode. Most games run in game within 20% on the final average benchmark score, that's why you want atleast 120% average if possible to be sure it will be playable, there are some games where the framerate is higher ingame than it is in parts of the attract mode, also many of the 3D games are limted by the CPU emulation, not the graphics chip emulation, so run the same ingame as they do in attract mode.

Benchmarks are just a guide to preformance requirements in the end, they only way to confirm the result is to load the ROM and play the game.

MAME 64 works well under XP Pro 64 by all accounts.

[Silver]

I see that there are big increases with running 64bit mame under 64bit vista.  What about 64bit mame under 64bit xp has anybody tried that?

Mame is fine but practically everything else on my system can not work due to lack of hardware support.

[trustno1]

Hello,I was wondering how a a system with two xeon 64bit 3.4GHZ with 2mb l2 cache and 800 mhz front side bus with ddr2 2gb sdram 400mhz would compare to some of the systems that you guys have tested. My buddy is selling this and I would like to use it for my mame cab but this is a first for me and this seems like the only place where people have any knowledge on this subject. Thanks. Would hate to throw away money for system when taz has posted how to build one comparable to his =)

[divemaster127]

I'm curious how vista sp1 will affect performance, in reading I have seen statements of upwards 25% performance boost, should be interesting how this works out.

[taz-nz]

This thread just hit 10,000 views , nevers saw that coming when I first posted, I always figured I'd get a dozen or so replies and that's about it, I was happy when it hit 200 views  , Well chairs everyone still following this thread 

I'm curious how vista sp1 will affect performance, in reading I have seen statements of upwards 25% performance boost, should be interesting how this works out.

I don't think the preformance jump will be that great, most of the preformance tweaks were to do with file copying etc. I've got a Vista SP1 update disk, If I get a chance on the weekend I'll do a before and after benchmark test on Vista. I've been really busy of late and so haven't had time to run as many test as I have in the past, but I see what I can do.

Hello,I was wondering how a a system with two xeon 64bit 3.4GHZ with 2mb l2 cache and 800 mhz front side bus with ddr2 2gb sdram 400mhz would compare to some of the systems that you guys have tested. My buddy is selling this and I would like to use it for my mame cab but this is a first for me and this seems like the only place where people have any knowledge on this subject. Thanks. Would hate to throw away money for system when taz has posted how to build one comparable to his =)

A 3.4ghz Xeon has the same basic CPU architecture as a Pentium 4, so the sytem would likely have comparable MAME preformance to a Pentium D of around the same speed, possibly a little fast due to the large cache memory the Xeons have. I would expect a Core 2 Duo at anything over 2.5ghz to beat it in MAME I'm sorry to say.

If decide to go with a new system, hit me any questions you have about what to get.

[lanman31337]

I'm probably going to get beat with a wet noodle, but i'm upgrading my desktop to an amd sli board and a 5000+ black edition, and 4 gigs of ram.  ima see how it does, and i might upgrade the 4800+ in my mame cabinet to the 5000+ black.

[trustno1]

I was hoping that wasn't going to be your answer , but at that using that chip would your 2nd page posting be the ideal setup to achieve your overclocking (which is a whole other topic in itself =)) or would you recommend anything else. I was looking at:
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor E8400
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Memory - Retail (5-5-5-15)
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX
Antec NeoPower 650 650W Power Supply
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler

Looking foward to matching your benchmarks
thanks..

[taz-nz]

I was hoping that wasn't going to be your answer , but at that using that chip would your 2nd page posting be the ideal setup to achieve your overclocking (which is a whole other topic in itself =)) or would you recommend anything else. I was looking at:
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor E8400
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Memory - Retail (5-5-5-15)
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX
Antec NeoPower 650 650W Power Supply
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler

Looking foward to matching your benchmarks
thanks..

My current recommendation for minium specs are below, all items are available for Newegg and prices quoted are from there. ( I whipped this up the other day for another fourm member)

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0ghz (333*9 stock)	$249.99
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 CPU Cooler	$36.99
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound	$5.99
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L Motherboard	$89.99	Open box avaliable for $20 less
Transcend AxeRAM 2GB	$79.99
GIGABYTE GV-RX24T256H Radeon HD 2400XT	$46.99
SILVERSTONE ST350 350W Power supply	$39.99
Total:	$547.93

You could go cheaper by going to G.Skill F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK Ram and a MSI RX1550-TD128EH Radeon X1550 graphics card, doing this and getting an open box motherboard will get you below $500.

The 350watt PSU is smaller than I would normally suggest, but as long as your only planning on one hdd a DVD-Rom it should be ok, It's a good brand and it's specs look better that a lot of cheap 500w PSUs out there.

The larger PSU will not hurt, and I highly recommend it if you going to be running any more powerful than an entry level graphics card, I chose the ati 2400xt because of it very low power usage.

If your going to go for the P35-DS3R get the P35-DS3P instead, it's the same board with better cooling and you can get one in an open boxed one for $109.

The only thing on you list I really don't like is the heatsink, they aren't bad heatsinks but it's not good enough for extreme overclocking. I suggest the one list above or the COOLER MASTER RR-CCH-LB12-GP (hyper 212)

[Popcorrin]

My current recommendation for minium specs are below, all items are available for Newegg and prices quoted are from there. ( I whipped this up the other day for another fourm member)

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0ghz (333*9 stock)	$249.99
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 CPU Cooler	$36.99
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound	$5.99
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L Motherboard	$89.99	Open box avaliable for $20 less
Transcend AxeRAM 2GB	$79.99
GIGABYTE GV-RX24T256H Radeon HD 2400XT	$46.99
SILVERSTONE ST350 350W Power supply	$39.99
Total:	$547.93

You could go cheaper by going to G.Skill F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK Ram and a MSI RX1550-TD128EH Radeon X1550 graphics card, doing this and getting an open box motherboard will get you below $500.

The 350watt PSU is smaller than I would normally suggest, but as long as your only planning on one hdd a DVD-Rom it should be ok, It's a good brand and it's specs look better that a lot of cheap 500w PSUs out there.

The larger PSU will not hurt, and I highly recommend it if you going to be running any more powerful than an entry level graphics card, I chose the ati 2400xt because of it very low power usage.

If your going to go for the P35-DS3R get the P35-DS3P instead, it's the same board with better cooling and you can get one in an open boxed one for $109.

The only thing on you list I really don't like is the heatsink, they aren't bad heatsinks but it's not good enough for extreme overclocking. I suggest the one list above or the COOLER MASTER RR-CCH-LB12-GP (hyper 212)

If Newegg ever gets the E8400 back in stock.   They do have the E6750 in stock, it's a tad slower but it's also $60 cheaper.

[trustno1]

hah, thanks taz. I was placing the order and not only can you not find the 8400 because newegg actually deactived the item, it is sold out everywhere on the net. Good luck trying to find that chip anytime soon =). well guessi will ust have to wait for a bit. thanks again.