Best Figher ever made???

[genesim]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

MK outsold SFII then, and it has become a much bigger franchise now.

As for me bieng "hung up" on charge moves...no I was referring to the SPEED of gameplay.

Did you miss this?   Perhaps you need to do some more research.    Go back and read really close.

As for anyone being able to play with anyone because of not having crappy slow down moves, that is again something you cannot grasp.   It is because they are so close that it makes it all the more difficult to master one character over another. 

[leapinlew]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

Yes.

MK outsold SFII then, and it has become a much bigger franchise now.

Prove it and then tell me how that matters.

As for me bieng "hung up" on charge moves...no I was referring to the SPEED of gameplay.

Did you miss this?   Perhaps you need to do some more research.    Go back and read really close.

I dare you to find quicker MK kills than what you saw in that youtube clip. Double dog dare you. Since I know you won't find one - please explain to the rest of us who cannot grasp what "Faster" gameplay is.

As for anyone being able to play with anyone because of not having crappy slow down moves, that is again something you cannot grasp.   It is because they are so close that it makes it all the more difficult to master one character over another. 

English please.

[genesim]

What I was trying to say, because I was typing fast and had to get back to work is that the characters are way more balanced in MK.

First of all, talk about broke, how can you compare someone that has to charge with a projectile over someone that can shoot them off at will???  MK has none of this.    Each player has their advantage, but at least it isn't overwhelming.

Here is a pattern.  Ryu fireballs over and over and if a person comes in close..rising upper.    This makes it so unfair for anyone that wants to be even semi agressive.  No wonder they toned down the damage in later revisions....or I mean GAMES.   

Or how about being able to sit back and block for eternity because of course blocking has no penalty.    Then if your opponent is using Blanka when someone is close..just get shocked when you come in to relieve yourself of the boring gameplay.

Then there is the problem with exactly which SFII you are talking about.   Gee such a perfect game that you have how many different versions that change integral gameplay???   What do you got....champion, turbo, turbo x, Super, super turbo....super duper.    PLEASE.    SFII has always been beta and has always been unbalanced.

MK has sold more.  This is easily proved by the amount of updates made to compete with the original!    MK was a total landslide and brought on a slew of imitators...including the SFII updates to try to make the gameplay closer.

Even the putrid SFII Movie arcade game tie-in tried to be Mortal Kombat...WRONGO!

But of course all this is lost on a fanboy who would hug SFII no matter what evidence was presented before them.  Funny how you mention not playing with certain people....gee I wonder why.

Guess what, with MK, I can play with any character and get different elements of great gameplay.   Johnny Cage's wider uppercut, Kano's crouching kick, Raiden's different jumpkick...etc.    Each had subtle but equal advantages.   Paper, Rock, Scissors.

MK was superior in my opinion for several reasons.    You had better bosses, better minigames, better easter eggs, better graphics, better prizes(such as fatalities and a great announcer) and lastly and most important  BETTER BALANCED GAMEPLAY.

The BYOAC has a bunch of SFII fans..so what?    Gee and if they jumped off a cliff..... 

I dare you to find quicker MK kills than what you saw in that youtube clip. Double dog dare you. Since I know you won't find one - please explain to the rest of us who cannot grasp what "Faster" gameplay is.

Uhh...faster gameplay doesn't equate to cheap unbalanced gameplay.   My reference, which you have missed again, is in there being the opportunity to sit back and block to no end as well as moves taking longer because of charges.     Getting a super dial a combo doesn't count.    The difference with the theatrics of MK is that they wait till the end, not just some crap in the middle to relieve the player from actually using skill to PLAY the game.

The race to get a gimmick super hurt the gameplay and made for the button mashing that came later.   Hell I am a sucker for it, but I would never pass it off as Chess. 

[leapinlew]

so I took a look at your previous posts and it appears your pretty much a troll that likes to argue with anyone even when your 100% wrong. I wish I didn't get suckered into a trap. I should've know you were just looking to argue. I mean, who in the world would think MK is a more in depth game then SF? 

Well played - now back under the bridge.

[jcoleman]

http://www.evo2k.com/


Hmm, I don't see a Mortal Kombat game listed in there.  What I *do* see is SSF2T, along with SF3TT, MvC2, and CVS2.  The fully evolved original, it's true sequal, and two spinoff games with similar gameplay styles.  BTW, It ain't slow: "Matches in ST are shorter than matches in almost every other fighting game." (from the EVO2007 site)  A Mortal Kombat fan is calling a component of SF2 gameplay gimmicky?  Give me a break.

This thread has been officially hijacked.  Back to topic.

The Virtua Fighter series is considered by many to be the king of the 3d hill, as far as depth goes.  As far as graphics, I'd have to go with Soul Calibur 3, which still has some pretty deep gameplay.  Tekken 5 is an excellent combination of the two.

[shardian]

Interesting tidbit on MK4. Anyone else have a chance to play the original w/o revisions? I was at the arcade the first day they hooked it up. In it, Liu Kangs bicycle kick was no longer a charge, it was F-F-LK!
I believe his weapon was B-B-HP IIRC. Anyways, I beat the game on all difficulties with bicycle kick-Flying Kick- bring out weapon, HP-HP-HP over and over. (he swings the sword back and forth very fast and advances, very deadly). The first time I played it. It was AWESOME...but also the absolute cheesiest method I have ever seen. A revision was out in no time, so most of you probably never even saw it.

[CheffoJeffo]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

Whoa there fella, no need to swipe at the community.

And, besides, everybody knows fighters are teh suxors ... real men play Robotron!

 

[jcoleman]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

[CheffoJeffo]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

[Hornpipe2]

http://www.evo2k.com/

Cool link.  I'm disappointed that the Smash Bros. Melee tournament is without items(!), and the Fox player in the video is pretty bad.  Good Meteor Smash ending though.

Another one that nobody's mentioned yet is the Dead or Alive series.  I played a ton of DOA2 when it was out on Dreamcast.  It's a definite counter-fest, but the continuous back-and-forth gameplay plus multi-tiered levels always lead to exciting matches.  One other nice thing is that nearly every combination of button presses is a 'combo', so button mashing newbies can have a lot of fun and not get totally demolished by experienced players.

[xmenxmen]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

Always thought it was poker with beer acompany by chicks in the back.  I must be living in the old days ago... Time to wake up....   

[motorfish]

Soul Calibur II is one of the deeper fighters I've played so far. The moves are elaborate and well balanced, the game can favor bothe the button masher AND the skilled (Like a real fight, someone can go in swinging wildly and catch even a skilled player off guard). The music score is absolutely incredible. The characters are well designed.

It's one greatest drawback is the enormous amount of time it takes to fully learn and underdtand the fighting engine.

[ahofle]

Super Smash Bros. Melee (GameCube game)

quoted for truth

Quoted again for truth.  I only played this about a month ago for the first time.  I'm not a big fighter fan (I usually only load up fighters in MAME just to see how much skin the female characters show  ) and I never imagined I would be remotely interested in yet another 2D fighter, but this one is so fresh and enjoyable.

[genesim]

Actually I wasn't swiping at the community, it is just indicative that there are more Street Fighter II fans here.   Big deal.    Doesn't cover the demographic.    That said, MK's history till lately hasn't been good.    With horrid transitions like MK Advance, it hasn't exactly been helpful.   

Still comments like leapinlew calling me a troll are totally uncalled for.     I stated my opinion and because I don't agree it comes down to namecalling.

Facts stare him right in the face and he/she has no defense.    So rather then comment on the undeniable truth, he/she resorts to cheap shots.

MK sold more units and didn't need multiple games to compete.   SFII has always been beta and there is yet another version coming out that is going to change integral gameplay....whatever that is.

The cold hard facts are that not only was the coinop a smash that had unit totals not seen since Pacman but also the home launch was the biggest ever that has yet to be beat.   

The game changed the landscape of all gaming, and the hate for it here is just as expected from a game that was so popular.   

Though if you prefer SFII(whatever flawed version that would be) I am not going to put you down for it.    I simply have stated my preference.   Of course my input was actually to comment on a subject I enjoy not to get into the tired MK vs SFII debate.    It has never been a race to me, rather it was a statement on the obvious.   SFII got their ass beat and have been trying to catch up to this day.

[CheffoJeffo]

Facts stare him right in the face and he/she has no defense.    So rather then comment on the undeniable truth, he/she resorts to cheap shots.

Let's be somewhat fair here, *you* fired the "have no understanding of the game" salvo first.

Pot. Kettle. SubZero.

[jcoleman]

More fans and more sales does not mean MK is a better game.  Incidentally, you are not backing that up with a citation which means you are expecting us to "take your word for it" on a point that does not belong in the argument.

Longevity, on the other hand, does mean SFII (and its derivatives) is a better game.  Continued spinoffs and improvements to the engine mean it's a better game.  SSF2T debuted shortly after MK3, if I recall correctly, and it's still being played at the world tournament level.   When I Google for "mortal kombat tournament" I only get results about the game, not anything regarding an actual tournament.  I don't see you arguing these points which are really the relevant points in this argument; these facts stare you right in the face and you have no defense.  You are defeated.

Note that I still enjoy Mortal Kombat (I was undefeated as Mileena in my fraternity days), it's just not better than SF2.  I'd go so far as to call it a classic, but as fighting games go it's got the least depth.  You might very well enjoy MK more, but there's no denying that it doesn't have the longevity.

[CheffoJeffo]

The cold hard facts are that not only was the coinop a smash that had unit totals not seen since Pacman but also the home launch was the biggest ever that has yet to be beat.

The game changed the landscape of all gaming, and the hate for it here is just as expected from a game that was so popular.   

Interesting then that SFII is the game that seems to always be recognized as the game that brought about the resurgence in the popularity of arcades.

I don't particularly care one way or the other -- I don't particularly like fighters and dislike the eleventy brazillion flavours of Street Fighter -- just pointing out that your cut-and-dried facts don't appear to be so cut-and-dried.

[motorfish]

To Genesim:

The problem here is that you tout your opinion as "fact", but you fail to provide any concrete evidence to support them. So until you can come here with some reputable numbers to back your "facts", they will remain as "opinions" to the general populace.

I've worked in the videogame industry for over ten years. That's a "fact", one that I can back up here:

http://motorfish.deviantart.com/

Now, durring my time in the industry, I've seen a couple of 2D and several 3D Mortal Kombat games released, but I've never, NEVER heard even the inkling of any review that touts Mortal Kombat was ever, EVER a superior fighter, or intelectual property than Street Fighter was. Ever.

The only thing I've heard Mortal Kombat compared to was other Mortal Kombat games, and how they've improved upon themselves, which is commendable.

Provide me with proof, and I'll happily eat my words as being ignorant and uninformed.

So here it is. Either put up, or shut the hell up, because frankly, your attitude and tone has become really annoying. You can't passionately make such a sweeping comment without any proof. Nobody will take you seriously.

[mrserv0n]

Tekken Tag is my all time favorite.

[Bleagh]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

4 player free for all, 2v2, 1v3.

Has well balanced characters too.

It can be a bit pricey tho once you find it, but well worth it in my opinion.

Guilty Gear Isuka is great too, also has 4 player modes.  There is a pc version available so you could run it on your mame cab.  Or get the ps2 version.

I like crazy 4 player free for alls.  Why beat one of your friends when you can beat 3?

[jcoleman]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Note this list only includes games that have sold more than 1 million copies.

SNES:
Street Fighter II (6.3 million)[29]
Super Street Fighter II (2 million)[29]
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.51 million in US)[33]
Mortal Kombat 3 (1.22 million in US)[33]

Genesis:
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.78 million in US) [33]
Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition (1.65 million)[29]


Then of course are the lists of franchises:
Street Fighter (25 million)[151]
Mortal Kombat (20 million)[155]

I guess that wraps it up...

[crashfuturesound]

Time Killers was a great one

[SavannahLion]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

Is there more than one YYH game? I think I played it on the emulator and I wasn't all that impressed with it, even considering the time. Not nearly the pile of dog ---Cleveland steamer--- like say... Heavy Nova was, but I wouldn't make it a top choice to include in my hardware library. I always felt the price was inflated for the sole reason the show was on Adult Swim for so long.

[leapinlew]

Still comments like leapinlew calling me a troll are totally uncalled for.     I stated my opinion and because I don't agree it comes down to namecalling.

You calling me ignorant, a loser, and an idiot don't count as name calling? From what I can tell, you do nothing but cause fights with people who know more than you. 



Also, I think your mean.

[RayB]

SFII is a bounce fest that comes from chance.   The skill is actually less defined because there is such a random amount of damage that can be taken from said hit.

That's really weird, because from my experience I'd describe MK as the game where it's just random dumb luck, and SF2 the one where you use skill.   

[Bleagh]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

Is there more than one YYH game? I think I played it on the emulator and I wasn't all that impressed with it, even considering the time. Not nearly the pile of dog ---Cleveland steamer--- like say... Heavy Nova was, but I wouldn't make it a top choice to include in my hardware library. I always felt the price was inflated for the sole reason the show was on Adult Swim for so long.

This is the one I'm talking about.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-95-49-en-86-1-70-1ib6.html

The well balanced characters and 4 player battles make it a lot of fun.

I would recommend giving it another try with a few friends.

[Crowquill]

First of all, talk about broke, how can you compare someone that has to charge with a projectile over someone that can shoot them off at will???  MK has none of this.    Each player has their advantage, but at least it isn't overwhelming.

Here is a pattern.  Ryu fireballs over and over and if a person comes in close..rising upper.    This makes it so unfair for anyone that wants to be even semi agressive.  No wonder they toned down the damage in later revisions....or I mean GAMES.   

Then there is the problem with exactly which SFII you are talking about.   Gee such a perfect game that you have how many different versions that change integral gameplay???   What do you got....champion, turbo, turbo x, Super, super turbo....super duper.    PLEASE.    SFII has always been beta and has always been unbalanced.

MK has sold more.  This is easily proved by the amount of updates made to compete with the original!    MK was a total landslide and brought on a slew of imitators...including the SFII updates to try to make the gameplay closer.

All of your examples seem to compare against SFII. That's like saying the Model T was crap compared to a '57 chevy. Like it or not, Capcom defined the genre with SFII. All of the core gameplay of Mortal Kombat was dirivative of SFII. Even you admit that these problems were addressed. There are multiple revisions of the SFII's, but I've never seen anyone pay as much attention to revisions as the MK fans of the early 90's. There were some glaring issues that probably should have been caught during playtesting. It's not that I hate MK, I just think it's an unfair comparison. I also hear Soul Calibur 3 is better than Karate Champ.

But of course all this is lost on a fanboy who would hug SFII no matter what evidence was presented before them.  Funny how you mention not playing with certain people....gee I wonder why.

Not at all like a MK fanboy...

[fjl]

I've tried SF3 the first one and second impact. They where good in their own right. I have yet to try SF3 Third Strike.

But honestly, my favorite fighting game of all time, is Street Fighter Alpha 3. Not really sure why so many preffer Alpha 2 though. I actually like the whole air combo thing and being able to block in the air.

Also a good runner up is Super Smash Bros. for the N64. It sucked in that you could hit down and knock an oppent out of the ring even if they had full health. But at the same time, that's what made it so much fun. Smash Bros Melee, its sequel was fun too but it seemed like they spent way too much time balancing out the characters to a point where the game lost a lot of its appeal. It was fun, but not as fun as the first.

[saint]

yeah, um....asking someone to pick their favorite fighter without giving sf or mk as one of the choices is like saying:

"which Lord of the Rings movie is your favorite?  oh and you cant pick from any that were directed by peter jackson."

gay!

so my pick is super street fighter 2

Ralph Bakshi's version, of course

[northerngames]

Mortal Kombat 2
Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition
Killer Instinct
Soul Caliber 1-2

there all my fav's over any other fighter or version.

 

[saint]

Oh, and by the way, don't make me take a uppercut-uppercut-left-right-twirl-pirouette-bash-bash-curtsy-belch on this thread. Fight nice!

[SNAAKE]

  capcom vs snk 2

close thread.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

This thread reminds me of this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UMf40daefsI

[Ed_McCarron]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

Defender?

[Malenko]

I'll never get why people cant like MK and SF equally like me. Sometimes Im in the mood for SF sometimes MK.
the only thing MK definately has over SF is the side art and the first movie (MK the movie > SF the movie > MK Annihilation)

Next up, what is "best" is opinion, no one is right or wrong. he is right in thinking MK is better you are right for thinking SF is better.  I have a Dedicated MKII machine to play MK on and a MAME cab to play SF on, I just enjoy them both instead of bickering online about whats better.

Also, SFII:CE for sega genesis was a complete abomination ; dithered palette , garbled audio, and tapping start to switch between punches and kicks on a 3 button pad all failed out loud. But Im not gonna turn this SF vs MK flame fest into a SNES vs Genesis flame fest =)

[markrvp]

genesim is a ---meecrob---.

[jcoleman]

Also, SFII:CE for sega genesis was a complete abomination ; dithered palette , garbled audio, and tapping start to switch between punches and kicks on a 3 button pad all failed out loud. But Im not gonna turn this SF vs MK flame fest into a SNES vs Genesis flame fest =)

But with a six button controller it was GLORIOUS.  Gameplay rules above all, and I've never heard anyone question that the Genesis version was better.  Man, those were the days - we'd play that literally for HOURS in college.  Those six button Genesis controllers are still my favorite gamepads of all time.

I always liked MK][ for Genesis better too.  Maybe it's b/c most us had a Genesis but very few had a SNES...

Coleman

[genesim]

You guys are cracking me up.

MK sold with an estimated 15 million home cosole games a record not likely to ever be beaten when you speak of paying customers.    I remember when it went down, and I know that alot of games went into peoples homes.   It was hysteria.    At last I remember the coinops were in the neighborhood of 1000 ALONE.   This isn't included the spinoffs.   SFII franchise is around 5000 so you guys figure it out.

Great point on SFII still working on their beta while MK3 was released though.

I agree with Malenko.   I like both games, but I just prefer one over the other.  I have never said anything was "fact" other then the points of blockin and retreating etc.

I have stated over and over again that my OPINION was SFII was an inferior fighter with much less balance.   I believe whole heartedly my evidence supports this...hence the so many revisions.

But hey, it is a free country and fanboys will no doubt disagree no matter the evidenc.

Like it or not, Capcom defined the genre with SFII. All of the core gameplay of Mortal Kombat was dirivative of SFII. Even you admit that these problems were addressed. There are multiple revisions of the SFII's, but I've never seen anyone pay as much attention to revisions as the MK fans of the early 90's. There were some glaring issues that probably should have been caught during playtesting

SFII was inventive and MK took it even further with addition of the block button and the non retreating way it was played.    MK was not derivative of SFII other then it was a fighting game of which both were derivative of others.    The difference was that unlinke MK which needed 5 revisions for glitches and what not...SFII not only had those but needed integral parts of gameplay improved to "fix" the unbalanced behavior of the characters...i.e. Zangief walking through projectiles...Chun Li getting a fireball...etc.

To this day the characters are unbalanced and that is why there has never been a "pefect" SFII.    MK1 and MK2 are much more balanced, and anyone that has actually picked up the games will see. 

That's really weird, because from my experience I'd describe MK as the game where it's just random dumb luck, and SF2 the one where you use skill.

Obviously another that hasn't spent much time with either game.

You calling me ignorant, a loser, and an idiot don't count as name calling? From what I can tell, you do nothing but cause fights with people who know more than you. 

I never called you any of the above.  I try not to call direct names, I only imply.   

jcoleman,

Note this list only includes games that have sold more than 1 million copies.

SNES:
Street Fighter II (6.3 million)[29]
Super Street Fighter II (2 million)[29]
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.51 million in US)[33]
Mortal Kombat 3 (1.22 million in US)[33]

Genesis:
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.78 million in US) [33]
Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition (1.65 million)[29]


Then of course are the lists of franchises:
Street Fighter (25 million)[151]
Mortal Kombat (20 million)[155]

I guess that wraps it up...

So according to your info MK1 never broke a million??!!    Did you ever hear of Mortal Monday???


If you are speaking of franchise please be complete and include Deception(2 million), Deadly Alliance(2.6 million), Armeggoddon(1 million+), and Trilogy().

You will find with a little google that those numbers have been staggering. 
 
This crap reminds me of the RIAA though.   If you would believe them they have Bing Crosby as selling only 4 million albums. 

What gets me is wikipedia shows their reference for Deadly Alliance at 2 million but only give credit to 1.4???

The facts are that it is likely higher then that as per...

http://www.ladydragon.com/z/270204.html

The facts are that sales numbers for Video Games are tracked even less and estimates are all we have.   SFII was popular but not more popular then MK.    Rentals alone should show you this.  SFII was always easy to find.   MK is in pawn shops alot, no doubt.  Because so many damn games were sold.   A little research will give you obvious answers.

No other game in history was ported to so many different consoles in one release party.   Gamegear, Gameboy, Supernintendo, Genesis, Dos, Amiga, IBM, Sega Master System, NES,...then later Sega CD, Sony Playstation, XBOX...etc.

Use your head people and add it up.   As a fighting game, it was a landslide.   

Still,  MK was to me a much more balanced game that is alot more fun.     I like both though and it is like separating hairs.   

You don't like it, don't play it.   But don't pretend that a small group of people is the opinion of millions.   MK has taken a beating as of late because of the reputation that was lost through poor ports.    So it only stands to reason a bunch of seals are going to clap their "hate" for the game.   Well good, it separates the fans from the groupies.   

I played the original to great length, and it will always be my favorite game.   It has fond memories with me, and it has a paper rock scissors approach to its gameplay that once perfected(or close to it) it didn't need a thousand Supers and Turbos to match with the competition.

[Chris2]

Obviously the best one would be Mugen. Since it's infinitely expandable, you can potentially have all of the characters and stages of every fighting game ever inside one game, in addition to any original characters people create. It's pretty cool once you start amassing large amounts of characters and stages. Plus, anyone with good programming skills can make their own character. The only real issue is people making overpowered or broken characters, but most characters allow anyone to easily change their stats, making the issue slightly less obvious.

[leapinlew]

You guys are cracking me up.

You know what cracks me up? Reading your threads. They are always the same. I'm sure you've been accused of being hard headed and prideful before, but this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62829.0
Where you get your ass beat by RandyT. Thats my favorite so far. I don't know how RandyT can have so much patience with you. I recommend you hang around here for a while and keep saying dumb stuff. Keeps it interesting. 

If anyone else has any brain cells you don't want anymore, check out the link. Good stuff.