Best Figher ever made???

[deadkenndys1105]

Don't pick anything like mortal kombat or street fighter.  It can be 2d or 3d.  We are starting a small little league and were trying out a few games.  It would be nice to have a ps2 port but we can also just use emulators if we have to.  My thing is Samurai Showdown personally but were not sure if we want to go with that one.

[Teebor]

I always like the old Karate arcade machine, that was awesome and I used to kick my mates 

Otherwise for me personally it would have to be Killer Instinct 2

[DarkBubble]

I always liked Samurai Shodown 2.  Fatal Fury Special's another good one.

[genesim]

Why no MK?

You asked for the best right.  

But if you looking farther down the line I would take The Last Blade over Shodown(No W!).   Same concept....much better execution.

Of course there is Garou Mark Of the Wolves, Mavel Vs Capcom 2, Capcom Vs SNK 2, SVC Chaos and the almighty Mor..   Oh wait, I can't pick that one.  

There is also the grandaddy Yie Are Kung-Fu

I also like Killer Instinct, but I prefer the first over the second.    No Cinder....no fun.

Can't help you with 3D because I don't like them....except MK Armegeddon...oh wait, I can't pick that one.  

[Jeff AMN]

Garou Mark Of the Wolves, Mavel Vs Capcom 2, King of Fighters series (many of them are good), Soul Calibur, Soul Calibur 2, Super Smash Bros. Melee (GameCube game), Virtua Fighter 4 and 5, Tekken 2 and 3, and I don't care about your "rules" because Street Fighter III: Third Strike is the best fighter ever. EVER!

[deadkenndys1105]

We think we going to end up playing KoF 06 at the moment.  I just wish I could talk them into Samurai Shodown 5 Special Boss but none of them have ever even heard of it.

[hulkster]

yeah, um....asking someone to pick their favorite fighter without giving sf or mk as one of the choices is like saying:

"which Lord of the Rings movie is your favorite?  oh and you cant pick from any that were directed by peter jackson."

gay!

so my pick is super street fighter 2

[danny_galaga]

"which Lord of the Rings movie is your favorite?  oh and you cant pick from any that were directed by peter jackson."

just so happens i can answer that (",)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0077869/

[vidmouse]

My bets for fun fighters-you-probably-never-tried-before:

Ninja Master's
Savage Reign (love how the camera zooms out)

From the SNES:
Gundam Wing

[MaMeNnO]

I'll vote for (all 2d and classics):

- Yie ar Kung Fu
- Kung Fu master

The last one is so much fun! With a few guys that one will be hilariously, guaranteed!

[leapinlew]

For those who are suggesting MK is the best fighter I would like to disagree. MK is just a step higher than a game like Final Fight or pit fighter. With pre-designed combos, limited moves and a faulty design in the MK1 that haunted them through all their versions.

In the arcades, there are rules about not throwing. This has to do with a bug in MK1 that allowed Sub Zero to throw you and freeze you before you could block it. So, the throw maneuver was against the etiquette of many players. It wasn't uncommon to see someone sit there with the block button held down and the other person throwing a projectile at them over and over.

Also, MK doesn't reward aggressive players. MK's best players sit around with the block held down waiting for the other person to throw a projectile.

In other words, it's not a game where the player who can pull off the best moves the fastest wins, it's who ever has the most patience. MK1-MK3 are nothing more than a gimmick for fatalities.

As for my vote - I think Street Fighter is one of the best designed fighters, but since we can't select street fighter, I'll go with Karate Champ because it's fun.

[Jeff AMN]

I agree that Mortal Kombat is mostly a dial-a-combo experience, but Mortal Kombat II is probably an exception. MKII has a good cast of fighters, good balance, and is rewarding to those that learn the moves and effective counters. I would put MKII in the top 15 or so of fighting games, but it's the only MK I'd place up there.

[Havok]

Micheal Jackson's Moonwalker!

 

[shardian]

For a group of guys who have no clue what they are doing, I'd recommend Xmen Vs. Street Fighter or Marvel Super Heroes. You can just smash the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of the buttons on that game and on screen it will look like you know what you are doing. That is how I learned to play that game: I always picked Wolverine and Gambit and just wailed on the controls with Wolverine. After a few plays, I learned all the moves and techniques. It was still so much fun to just pound away though.

[genesim]

Are you kidding me?   Most people that put down MK have no understanding of the game.

Streetfighter II is a much slower game compared to the original MK(further comparisons even widen the mark with the introduction of the RUN).

Streetfighter has you retreat to block a move as opposed to a quick button press.     Blocking fighters are easy to deal with and unlike SFII, players blocks actually penalize you.

As for the "limiting" moves...again, more ignorance.    While it appears each character has similar moves, that is only if you haven't played the game.   Lui Kang is obviously a faster player.    Cage has a much wider uppercut. ....etc.

Any idiot that thinks they can just sit and block will be in a for a real treat from me.     You can block high....block low, but you cannot do both at the same time.    Either you get sweeped or kicked in the head, it is your choice.

SFII was a slow game, and that was why they needed turbo to compete...guess what, it didn't work.   MK was still faster gameplay.

A small step up from Final Fight?   You must have been playing the game with some real losers.

It does crack me up how you say a game has predesigned combos when it is obvious that there are still combos being discovered.    The game is glitchy, and funny enough that is what makes it unpredictable.    If anything was predesigned, that would be SFII.

I cringe at remembering how slow the game is.   Charging a move takes gameplay down to a CRAWL.     I could get 3 lightining bolts to one sonic boom easy.     

[Hoopz]

My mother-in-law.  She never gives in and will beat you down with her nagging.

---smurfette---.

[xmenxmen]

Break the rules.  Street Fighter Alpha 2 and SF3 - 3rd strike.

[Jeff AMN]

genesim,

I think you're crazy if you honestly believe that Mortal Kombat can provide the depth of the Steet Fighter series. MK was one of my favorite fighters in its time, but it's so exploitable that it's semi-broken now. I love MKII, but I feel that MK3 sort of introduced as many broken elements into the game as innovations.

Yes, MK has depth, and that's proven by the fact that an experienced player will always win out over a new player, but the Street Fighter series is WAY more balanced and way more intricate in its execution. Both series have their place in the genre, but Street Fighter has way more strategy and discipline involved.

[leapinlew]

Are you kidding me?   Most people that put down MK have no understanding of the game.

Streetfighter II is a much slower game compared to the original MK(further comparisons even widen the mark with the introduction of the RUN).

Streetfighter has you retreat to block a move as opposed to a quick button press.     Blocking fighters are easy to deal with and unlike SFII, players blocks actually penalize you.

As for the "limiting" moves...again, more ignorance.    While it appears each character has similar moves, that is only if you haven't played the game.   Lui Kang is obviously a faster player.    Cage has a much wider uppercut. ....etc.

Any idiot that thinks they can just sit and block will be in a for a real treat from me.     You can block high....block low, but you cannot do both at the same time.    Either you get sweeped or kicked in the head, it is your choice.

SFII was a slow game, and that was why they needed turbo to compete...guess what, it didn't work.   MK was still faster gameplay.

A small step up from Final Fight?   You must have been playing the game with some real losers.

It does crack me up how you say a game has predesigned combos when it is obvious that there are still combos being discovered.    The game is glitchy, and funny enough that is what makes it unpredictable.    If anything was predesigned, that would be SFII.

I cringe at remembering how slow the game is.   Charging a move takes gameplay down to a CRAWL.     I could get 3 lightining bolts to one sonic boom easy.     

I played a ton of MK1,2, and 3. I enjoy playing them. I'm not a MK hater, but between MK and SFII - the skill is in SFII.

You think Street Fighter II Turbo didn't work in making Street Fighter a faster game? Have you seen some of the combos?


The thing with SF combos is they are hard to do, unlike MK. I don't play much anymore, but I was pretty good at MKII and MKIII and at the same time I played a lot of Street Fighter II in the arcades against real people. People watched MK games to see the fatalities and other goofy end moves while they watched a SF game to see what combos a player could pull off.

What about throwing being a cheap move? What kind of fighting game doesn't allow throws? Might as well not allow kicks either and call it boxing. How can a game be "great" when you can't use all the moves given to you. Name 1 move in Street fighter a player shouldn't do because the designers of the game made it so unbalanced. 

[leapinlew]

genesim,

I think you're crazy if you honestly believe that Mortal Kombat can provide the depth of the Steet Fighter series. MK was one of my favorite fighters in its time, but it's so exploitable that it's semi-broken now. I love MKII, but I feel that MK3 sort of introduced as many broken elements into the game as innovations.

Yes, MK has depth, and that's proven by the fact that an experienced player will always win out over a new player, but the Street Fighter series is WAY more balanced and way more intricate in its execution. Both series have their place in the genre, but Street Fighter has way more strategy and discipline involved.

well said, I agree.

MK = checkers
SF = chess

[severdhed]

Soul Calibur

[hulkster]

My mother-in-law.  She never gives in and will beat you down with her nagging.

---smurf---.

hahahaha, thats great. 

[MrMojoZ]

Considering the restrictions placed on the selections..

..I am still going to go with SF3:Thrid Strike. 

[hulkster]

Considering the restrictions placed on the selections..

..I am still going to go with SF3:Thrid Strike. 

and i just played that on mame for the first time!  sweet!  i love mame 

[mrserv0n]

Considering the restrictions placed on the selections..

..I am still going to go with SF3:Thrid Strike. 

and i just played that on mame for the first time!  sweet!  i love mame 

Do you have to wait that 30 minute decompression everytime you play or only once?

[hulkster]

just once....it saves to the nvram file.  so if you ever move your mame folder to another pc, or for whatever reason...make sure you take that nvram folder with you!

[MrMojoZ]

and i just played that on mame for the first time!  sweet!  i love mame 

I've played it in the arcade, on a dreamcast and on a xbox but it being MAMEable got me motivated to get to work on MAME cabinet project. 

[Hornpipe2]

Super Smash Bros. Melee (GameCube game)

quoted for truth

[genesim]

I am going to random quote because this stuff is too funny to spend the energy to exploit.

And then it turned into freeze-uppercut-jumpkick-slide-freeze-uppercut-jumpkick-slide-freeze-uppercut FLAWLESS VICTORY.

And what setting would that be....   Turn it up just a little and you might be suprised.    I have heard it all.   People say the A.I. was too cheap, now you see that it is too easy?

Though I honestly don't play MK for the single player.

BUT...I am going to play devil's advocate.    So you can beat the game with said combo, well don't do that then?   Just because there is an exploit to the game(which of course as I said before is not true), doesn't mean you have to take advantage.    Skill is knowing the weaknesses and choosing another way to win.

Well, what killed MK1 was every match was Sub Zero vs Sub Zero

Again, I loved people like you.    So Sub Zero was a popular character so therefore MK was broken?

You start with this.   How do you prevent a juggle?   Don't get grabbed.    How do you fix a blocker?   Punish him to know end with sweeps and high attacks in random.

SFII huggers crack me up.   Balance ---my bottom---.    First off all the SubZero character exploit is a myth.    For me going to the arcades constantly, Scorpion was used alot more.    But to be honest there were lots of great players using multiple characters.    I remember seeing this guy who was a god with Sonya.   

Now on the other hand, how many Ryu/Ken/Dan/Akuma lovers are out there.      Talk about depth.    Can you say the same for MK in having so many characters that process that many similar moves?   

SFII was a slow game, even with turbo because you have two problems.   You have blocking used with "retreating" and you have special moves that need to be "charged".    There is no getting around this.     MK does not have this problem.  Dispute this fact.    Even every MK followup trounced SFII down to the latest masterpiece.   SFII is getting older by the minute, but there will always be the hangeron's.    Hell I like both, just not equally.

I for one never watched MK for just the fatalities.   I watched for good players vs player interaction.   I was there too.   Everyone has a preference, but I never would turn this into a SFII hating thread.    I only stated my preference.

[AtomSmasher]

Soul Calibur

Agreed

[leapinlew]

I am going to random quote because this stuff is too funny to spend the energy to exploit.

And then it turned into freeze-uppercut-jumpkick-slide-freeze-uppercut-jumpkick-slide-freeze-uppercut FLAWLESS VICTORY.

And what setting would that be....   Turn it up just a little and you might be suprised.    I have heard it all.   People say the A.I. was too cheap, now you see that it is too easy?

Though I honestly don't play MK for the single player.

BUT...I am going to play devil's advocate.    So you can beat the game with said combo, well don't do that then?   Just because there is an exploit to the game(which of course as I said before is not true), doesn't mean you have to take advantage.    Skill is knowing the weaknesses and choosing another way to win.

Well, what killed MK1 was every match was Sub Zero vs Sub Zero

Again, I loved people like you.    So Sub Zero was a popular character so therefore MK was broken?

You start with this.   How do you prevent a juggle?   Don't get grabbed.    How do you fix a blocker?   Punish him to know end with sweeps and high attacks in random.

SFII huggers crack me up.   Balance ---my bottom---.    First off all the SubZero character exploit is a myth.    For me going to the arcades constantly, Scorpion was used alot more.    But to be honest there were lots of great players using multiple characters.    I remember seeing this guy who was a god with Sonya.   

Now on the other hand, how many Ryu/Ken/Dan/Akuma lovers are out there.      Talk about depth.    Can you say the same for MK in having so many characters that process that many similar moves?   

SFII was a slow game, even with turbo because you have two problems.   You have blocking used with "retreating" and you have special moves that need to be "charged".    There is no getting around this.     MK does not have this problem.  Dispute this fact.    Even every MK followup trounced SFII down to the latest masterpiece.   SFII is getting older by the minute, but there will always be the hangeron's.    Hell I like both, just not equally.

I for one never watched MK for just the fatalities.   I watched for good players vs player interaction.   I was there too.   Everyone has a preference, but I never would turn this into a SFII hating thread.    I only stated my preference.

Lots of problem here.

First, you didn't watch the video of "slow" street fighter that I posted. If so, you wouldn't still be saying how slow street fighter is. Therefore, you assertion that street fighter is a slow game is equal to you not knowing what your talking about.

Second, plenty of characters in the mortal kombat series require charge moves. Somehow in your eyes, this doesn't slow down MK any though.

Third, just because your not familiar with the Sub Zero exploit doesn't make it any less real. There was a bug in the first version of MK that allowed an sub zero to throw an opponent and freeze the opponent before he hit the ground. Repeat till dead. Why is this a big deal? Because ever since then - throwing isn't allowed. Thats why MK is broken.

You didn't address my "no throws" rule in MK.

MK is more for people who just want to press the right buttons in time (much like the Killer Instinct combos). SF is more about timing.

Don't get me wrong. Plenty of people love checkers. But to try to say Checkers has more depth than Chess is ridiculous. And I happen to like both games, I just know which game has more depth. I can understand people who like MK more - it takes better timing skill to play and pull off the moves in SF while almost anyone can do the moves in MK. I can do damn near every combo on the first 3 MK's.... nearly all my arcade friends could. Like I said, it's a patience game filled with blocks.

[The Chugnut]

As much as I loved Mortal Kombat II, the MK series is far from the best fighter in my opinion.    There's no fluidity compared to other fighters. It's not just SF that beats it hands down either, there's a whole list. Like I said, I still love to boot up MKII every now and then and let the blood fly, but it definitely doesn't come out _even close_ the top of the best fighters.

Most mentionable that aren't part of the SF series:

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution (I hated the Virtua Fighter series, but this... wow. Takes a while to get into, but sooooooo worth it!)
Super Smash Bros Melee
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Tekken 3
Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection
The Last Blade 2
Soul Calibur II
Samurai Showdown 5 Special


Conclusion:
7 and a turnip.

[Jedirampage]

Just the opinion of a simple Jedi but....


2D would be Marvel Vs Capcom 2,

3D would be Soul Caliber 2

[RayB]

My favorite was Tekken I and II. I LOVE alternating the punch buttons to do left-right combos, and I prefer the "back to block" (like SF2).

I liked SF2 for the Super NES too.

Beyond that I lost interest when fighting games got so crazy I couldn't keep track of what's happening on screen (SF Alpha for example).

[Crowquill]

34 replies and no-one has mentioned the Darkstalkers games?

-Gorgeous art by Bengus (at least the first 2)
-well-balanced gameplay
-a great variety of characters and fighting styles
-humor
-Chain combos are easy to execute, but can still be broken.
-EX and Super moves that are cool but don't kill your opponent (or you) in one attack.

Night Warriors (Part 2) is my personal favorite.

Other favorites:
Soul _______ - None have been bad.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2- Like all the VS games, button-mashing can prevail, but with 52 characters I still play this on my DC every now-and-then.

Street Fighter Alpha 2- Gorgeous art by Bengus, a great variety of characters, a complex fighting system that's not bogged down in options.

King of Fighters- I always thought Fatal Fury 2 was the first fighting game that was anywhere near SFII. As it's evolved into KOF, The rosters and variety of characters has improved dramatically. KOF'99 was the first cart I bought for my MVS.

I have never been a MK fan.

[genesim]

leapinlew,

Who said I was unaware of the glitch.  There were many a glitch that were eliminated by Version 5.   The Sub Zero freeze glitch was one of them.   Do some research then come back to me.   Or perhaps you were unaware of the version you were watching.

As for charging moves.   I was referring to MK1 first and foremost.   That said, the charge moves in MKII is what turned me off and thankfully alot of them have been eliminated by the later games.   

Charge moves slow down gameplay and that is why there ever was a Super Street Fighter II turbo.   Hmmmm was I unaware of this small little detail?   How many revisions would that be for them to even come close??  I saw the You Tube clip and I know the game backwards and forwards and I understand that SFII is the original....not the thousands version later.    Matter of fact, if you are going to compare apples to apples lets compare the original Street Fighter.   

Street Fighter is flawed because Blocking is a staple that can keep you from getting killed(barring supers which hurt you which of course was to compete with the gameplay that was alread in MK to begin with...yes blocking should have a penalty).

SFII is not chess.   It is checkers, because you get a second chance from blocking.

As for the "no throws" rule.  I never had them, because they are an integral part of gameplay.   Only little whiney brats who haven't mastered the game would make up such a thing.   

SFII is a bounce fest that comes from chance.   The skill is actually less defined because there is such a random amount of damage that can be taken from said hit. 

But hey, there are Sonic people and Mario People.   I prefer speed and skill over "thinking".   The system is more complicated given set parameters as opposed to random chance that takes years to master.     It doesn't make the game more deep...just needlessly redundant.   

[Jeff AMN]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the Guilty Gear series. That's a great fighting series.

[leapinlew]

First off all the SubZero character exploit is a myth.   

Who said I was unaware of the glitch.  There were many a glitch that were eliminated by Version 5.   The Sub Zero freeze glitch was one of them.   Do some research then come back to me. 

There, I did some research. Appears YOU said the SubZero exploit was a myth. Imagine that.

So either you misspoke, misunderstood or missed the mark. Either way, you did something dumb. Despite the fact that everyone else in this thread thinks Street Fighter is a better game then MK, I think your ramblings have convinced everyone that they are wrong. You must spread this message to the rest of the world. Hurry. Scurry off and spread the news.

[genesim]

How is what I said dumb?   The Sub Zero exploit was in reference to only people preferring him over other players.   Urban legend at best.

The glitch was eliminated, and someone playing beta versions of the game doesn't understand what it means to evolve.   The myth was that it is something that made the game "broke".   

Now you are taking it to a personal level.   It is my opinion.   I like MK better.   You like SFII better.   There is nothing that will convince you, just like there is nothing that is going to change my taste.

I don't care how "popular" the opinion is.

No need to be a complete d*ck about it.

SFII is slow compared to MK.   You have to block while retreating, and you have to charge to get moves off.   Furthermore with a super you have to sit back and watch your dialed combo.    This is verifiable fact.   Read and comprehend.

[leapinlew]

How is what I said dumb?   The Sub Zero exploit was in reference to only people preferring him over other players.   Urban legend at best.

The glitch was eliminated, and someone playing beta versions of the game doesn't understand what it means to evolve.   The myth was that it is something that made the game "broke".   

Now you are taking it to a personal level.   It is my opinion.   I like MK better.   You like SFII better.   There is nothing that will convince you, just like there is nothing that is going to change my taste.

I don't care how "popular" the opinion is.

No need to be a complete d*ck about it.

SFII is slow compared to MK.   You have to block while retreating, and you have to charge to get moves off.   Furthermore with a super you have to sit back and watch your dialed combo.    This is verifiable fact.   Read and comprehend.

So, it seems like your really hung up on this charge moves bit. I always thought it was cool that different characters worked at different speeds. Slow and strong Honda vs fast and agile Chun li. Different styles that represented their characters better. I personally don't like charging much, so I didn't play the charging characters often and when I did I didn't use the charge abilities often. You do realize that many of the characters have no charging moves right? I would assume you know this since you know the game"backwards and forwards".

I can respect someone who plays the characters who have charging moves, because those are more difficult for me. Every character in MK requires the same dexterity. If you can work 1 character, you can work them all. It's all the same. All you have to remember is a new pattern and no new timing to go with it. While in SF there is variety in how the special moves are pulled off and the timing needed for the combos.

So, there we have it, you have your opinion and the rest of us have ours.

[genesim]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

MK outsold SFII then, and it has become a much bigger franchise now.

As for me bieng "hung up" on charge moves...no I was referring to the SPEED of gameplay.

Did you miss this?   Perhaps you need to do some more research.    Go back and read really close.

As for anyone being able to play with anyone because of not having crappy slow down moves, that is again something you cannot grasp.   It is because they are so close that it makes it all the more difficult to master one character over another. 

[leapinlew]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

Yes.

MK outsold SFII then, and it has become a much bigger franchise now.

Prove it and then tell me how that matters.

As for me bieng "hung up" on charge moves...no I was referring to the SPEED of gameplay.

Did you miss this?   Perhaps you need to do some more research.    Go back and read really close.

I dare you to find quicker MK kills than what you saw in that youtube clip. Double dog dare you. Since I know you won't find one - please explain to the rest of us who cannot grasp what "Faster" gameplay is.

As for anyone being able to play with anyone because of not having crappy slow down moves, that is again something you cannot grasp.   It is because they are so close that it makes it all the more difficult to master one character over another. 

English please.

[genesim]

What I was trying to say, because I was typing fast and had to get back to work is that the characters are way more balanced in MK.

First of all, talk about broke, how can you compare someone that has to charge with a projectile over someone that can shoot them off at will???  MK has none of this.    Each player has their advantage, but at least it isn't overwhelming.

Here is a pattern.  Ryu fireballs over and over and if a person comes in close..rising upper.    This makes it so unfair for anyone that wants to be even semi agressive.  No wonder they toned down the damage in later revisions....or I mean GAMES.   

Or how about being able to sit back and block for eternity because of course blocking has no penalty.    Then if your opponent is using Blanka when someone is close..just get shocked when you come in to relieve yourself of the boring gameplay.

Then there is the problem with exactly which SFII you are talking about.   Gee such a perfect game that you have how many different versions that change integral gameplay???   What do you got....champion, turbo, turbo x, Super, super turbo....super duper.    PLEASE.    SFII has always been beta and has always been unbalanced.

MK has sold more.  This is easily proved by the amount of updates made to compete with the original!    MK was a total landslide and brought on a slew of imitators...including the SFII updates to try to make the gameplay closer.

Even the putrid SFII Movie arcade game tie-in tried to be Mortal Kombat...WRONGO!

But of course all this is lost on a fanboy who would hug SFII no matter what evidence was presented before them.  Funny how you mention not playing with certain people....gee I wonder why.

Guess what, with MK, I can play with any character and get different elements of great gameplay.   Johnny Cage's wider uppercut, Kano's crouching kick, Raiden's different jumpkick...etc.    Each had subtle but equal advantages.   Paper, Rock, Scissors.

MK was superior in my opinion for several reasons.    You had better bosses, better minigames, better easter eggs, better graphics, better prizes(such as fatalities and a great announcer) and lastly and most important  BETTER BALANCED GAMEPLAY.

The BYOAC has a bunch of SFII fans..so what?    Gee and if they jumped off a cliff..... 

I dare you to find quicker MK kills than what you saw in that youtube clip. Double dog dare you. Since I know you won't find one - please explain to the rest of us who cannot grasp what "Faster" gameplay is.

Uhh...faster gameplay doesn't equate to cheap unbalanced gameplay.   My reference, which you have missed again, is in there being the opportunity to sit back and block to no end as well as moves taking longer because of charges.     Getting a super dial a combo doesn't count.    The difference with the theatrics of MK is that they wait till the end, not just some crap in the middle to relieve the player from actually using skill to PLAY the game.

The race to get a gimmick super hurt the gameplay and made for the button mashing that came later.   Hell I am a sucker for it, but I would never pass it off as Chess. 

[leapinlew]

so I took a look at your previous posts and it appears your pretty much a troll that likes to argue with anyone even when your 100% wrong. I wish I didn't get suckered into a trap. I should've know you were just looking to argue. I mean, who in the world would think MK is a more in depth game then SF? 

Well played - now back under the bridge.

[jcoleman]

http://www.evo2k.com/


Hmm, I don't see a Mortal Kombat game listed in there.  What I *do* see is SSF2T, along with SF3TT, MvC2, and CVS2.  The fully evolved original, it's true sequal, and two spinoff games with similar gameplay styles.  BTW, It ain't slow: "Matches in ST are shorter than matches in almost every other fighting game." (from the EVO2007 site)  A Mortal Kombat fan is calling a component of SF2 gameplay gimmicky?  Give me a break.

This thread has been officially hijacked.  Back to topic.

The Virtua Fighter series is considered by many to be the king of the 3d hill, as far as depth goes.  As far as graphics, I'd have to go with Soul Calibur 3, which still has some pretty deep gameplay.  Tekken 5 is an excellent combination of the two.

[shardian]

Interesting tidbit on MK4. Anyone else have a chance to play the original w/o revisions? I was at the arcade the first day they hooked it up. In it, Liu Kangs bicycle kick was no longer a charge, it was F-F-LK!
I believe his weapon was B-B-HP IIRC. Anyways, I beat the game on all difficulties with bicycle kick-Flying Kick- bring out weapon, HP-HP-HP over and over. (he swings the sword back and forth very fast and advances, very deadly). The first time I played it. It was AWESOME...but also the absolute cheesiest method I have ever seen. A revision was out in no time, so most of you probably never even saw it.

[CheffoJeffo]

The rest of us being what...this little community?

Whoa there fella, no need to swipe at the community.

And, besides, everybody knows fighters are teh suxors ... real men play Robotron!

 

[jcoleman]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

[CheffoJeffo]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

[Hornpipe2]

http://www.evo2k.com/

Cool link.  I'm disappointed that the Smash Bros. Melee tournament is without items(!), and the Fox player in the video is pretty bad.  Good Meteor Smash ending though.

Another one that nobody's mentioned yet is the Dead or Alive series.  I played a ton of DOA2 when it was out on Dreamcast.  It's a definite counter-fest, but the continuous back-and-forth gameplay plus multi-tiered levels always lead to exciting matches.  One other nice thing is that nearly every combination of button presses is a 'combo', so button mashing newbies can have a lot of fun and not get totally demolished by experienced players.

[xmenxmen]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

Always thought it was poker with beer acompany by chicks in the back.  I must be living in the old days ago... Time to wake up....   

[motorfish]

Soul Calibur II is one of the deeper fighters I've played so far. The moves are elaborate and well balanced, the game can favor bothe the button masher AND the skilled (Like a real fight, someone can go in swinging wildly and catch even a skilled player off guard). The music score is absolutely incredible. The characters are well designed.

It's one greatest drawback is the enormous amount of time it takes to fully learn and underdtand the fighting engine.

[ahofle]

Super Smash Bros. Melee (GameCube game)

quoted for truth

Quoted again for truth.  I only played this about a month ago for the first time.  I'm not a big fighter fan (I usually only load up fighters in MAME just to see how much skin the female characters show  ) and I never imagined I would be remotely interested in yet another 2D fighter, but this one is so fresh and enjoyable.

[genesim]

Actually I wasn't swiping at the community, it is just indicative that there are more Street Fighter II fans here.   Big deal.    Doesn't cover the demographic.    That said, MK's history till lately hasn't been good.    With horrid transitions like MK Advance, it hasn't exactly been helpful.   

Still comments like leapinlew calling me a troll are totally uncalled for.     I stated my opinion and because I don't agree it comes down to namecalling.

Facts stare him right in the face and he/she has no defense.    So rather then comment on the undeniable truth, he/she resorts to cheap shots.

MK sold more units and didn't need multiple games to compete.   SFII has always been beta and there is yet another version coming out that is going to change integral gameplay....whatever that is.

The cold hard facts are that not only was the coinop a smash that had unit totals not seen since Pacman but also the home launch was the biggest ever that has yet to be beat.   

The game changed the landscape of all gaming, and the hate for it here is just as expected from a game that was so popular.   

Though if you prefer SFII(whatever flawed version that would be) I am not going to put you down for it.    I simply have stated my preference.   Of course my input was actually to comment on a subject I enjoy not to get into the tired MK vs SFII debate.    It has never been a race to me, rather it was a statement on the obvious.   SFII got their ass beat and have been trying to catch up to this day.

[CheffoJeffo]

Facts stare him right in the face and he/she has no defense.    So rather then comment on the undeniable truth, he/she resorts to cheap shots.

Let's be somewhat fair here, *you* fired the "have no understanding of the game" salvo first.

Pot. Kettle. SubZero.

[jcoleman]

More fans and more sales does not mean MK is a better game.  Incidentally, you are not backing that up with a citation which means you are expecting us to "take your word for it" on a point that does not belong in the argument.

Longevity, on the other hand, does mean SFII (and its derivatives) is a better game.  Continued spinoffs and improvements to the engine mean it's a better game.  SSF2T debuted shortly after MK3, if I recall correctly, and it's still being played at the world tournament level.   When I Google for "mortal kombat tournament" I only get results about the game, not anything regarding an actual tournament.  I don't see you arguing these points which are really the relevant points in this argument; these facts stare you right in the face and you have no defense.  You are defeated.

Note that I still enjoy Mortal Kombat (I was undefeated as Mileena in my fraternity days), it's just not better than SF2.  I'd go so far as to call it a classic, but as fighting games go it's got the least depth.  You might very well enjoy MK more, but there's no denying that it doesn't have the longevity.

[CheffoJeffo]

The cold hard facts are that not only was the coinop a smash that had unit totals not seen since Pacman but also the home launch was the biggest ever that has yet to be beat.

The game changed the landscape of all gaming, and the hate for it here is just as expected from a game that was so popular.   

Interesting then that SFII is the game that seems to always be recognized as the game that brought about the resurgence in the popularity of arcades.

I don't particularly care one way or the other -- I don't particularly like fighters and dislike the eleventy brazillion flavours of Street Fighter -- just pointing out that your cut-and-dried facts don't appear to be so cut-and-dried.

[motorfish]

To Genesim:

The problem here is that you tout your opinion as "fact", but you fail to provide any concrete evidence to support them. So until you can come here with some reputable numbers to back your "facts", they will remain as "opinions" to the general populace.

I've worked in the videogame industry for over ten years. That's a "fact", one that I can back up here:

http://motorfish.deviantart.com/

Now, durring my time in the industry, I've seen a couple of 2D and several 3D Mortal Kombat games released, but I've never, NEVER heard even the inkling of any review that touts Mortal Kombat was ever, EVER a superior fighter, or intelectual property than Street Fighter was. Ever.

The only thing I've heard Mortal Kombat compared to was other Mortal Kombat games, and how they've improved upon themselves, which is commendable.

Provide me with proof, and I'll happily eat my words as being ignorant and uninformed.

So here it is. Either put up, or shut the hell up, because frankly, your attitude and tone has become really annoying. You can't passionately make such a sweeping comment without any proof. Nobody will take you seriously.

[mrserv0n]

Tekken Tag is my all time favorite.

[Bleagh]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

4 player free for all, 2v2, 1v3.

Has well balanced characters too.

It can be a bit pricey tho once you find it, but well worth it in my opinion.

Guilty Gear Isuka is great too, also has 4 player modes.  There is a pc version available so you could run it on your mame cab.  Or get the ps2 version.

I like crazy 4 player free for alls.  Why beat one of your friends when you can beat 3?

[jcoleman]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

Note this list only includes games that have sold more than 1 million copies.

SNES:
Street Fighter II (6.3 million)[29]
Super Street Fighter II (2 million)[29]
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.51 million in US)[33]
Mortal Kombat 3 (1.22 million in US)[33]

Genesis:
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.78 million in US) [33]
Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition (1.65 million)[29]


Then of course are the lists of franchises:
Street Fighter (25 million)[151]
Mortal Kombat (20 million)[155]

I guess that wraps it up...

[crashfuturesound]

Time Killers was a great one

[SavannahLion]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

Is there more than one YYH game? I think I played it on the emulator and I wasn't all that impressed with it, even considering the time. Not nearly the pile of dog ---Cleveland steamer--- like say... Heavy Nova was, but I wouldn't make it a top choice to include in my hardware library. I always felt the price was inflated for the sole reason the show was on Adult Swim for so long.

[leapinlew]

Still comments like leapinlew calling me a troll are totally uncalled for.     I stated my opinion and because I don't agree it comes down to namecalling.

You calling me ignorant, a loser, and an idiot don't count as name calling? From what I can tell, you do nothing but cause fights with people who know more than you. 



Also, I think your mean.

[RayB]

SFII is a bounce fest that comes from chance.   The skill is actually less defined because there is such a random amount of damage that can be taken from said hit.

That's really weird, because from my experience I'd describe MK as the game where it's just random dumb luck, and SF2 the one where you use skill.   

[Bleagh]

You should check out that Yuu Yuu Hakusho game for the Genesis.

Is there more than one YYH game? I think I played it on the emulator and I wasn't all that impressed with it, even considering the time. Not nearly the pile of dog ---Cleveland steamer--- like say... Heavy Nova was, but I wouldn't make it a top choice to include in my hardware library. I always felt the price was inflated for the sole reason the show was on Adult Swim for so long.

This is the one I'm talking about.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-95-49-en-86-1-70-1ib6.html

The well balanced characters and 4 player battles make it a lot of fun.

I would recommend giving it another try with a few friends.

[Crowquill]

First of all, talk about broke, how can you compare someone that has to charge with a projectile over someone that can shoot them off at will???  MK has none of this.    Each player has their advantage, but at least it isn't overwhelming.

Here is a pattern.  Ryu fireballs over and over and if a person comes in close..rising upper.    This makes it so unfair for anyone that wants to be even semi agressive.  No wonder they toned down the damage in later revisions....or I mean GAMES.   

Then there is the problem with exactly which SFII you are talking about.   Gee such a perfect game that you have how many different versions that change integral gameplay???   What do you got....champion, turbo, turbo x, Super, super turbo....super duper.    PLEASE.    SFII has always been beta and has always been unbalanced.

MK has sold more.  This is easily proved by the amount of updates made to compete with the original!    MK was a total landslide and brought on a slew of imitators...including the SFII updates to try to make the gameplay closer.

All of your examples seem to compare against SFII. That's like saying the Model T was crap compared to a '57 chevy. Like it or not, Capcom defined the genre with SFII. All of the core gameplay of Mortal Kombat was dirivative of SFII. Even you admit that these problems were addressed. There are multiple revisions of the SFII's, but I've never seen anyone pay as much attention to revisions as the MK fans of the early 90's. There were some glaring issues that probably should have been caught during playtesting. It's not that I hate MK, I just think it's an unfair comparison. I also hear Soul Calibur 3 is better than Karate Champ.

But of course all this is lost on a fanboy who would hug SFII no matter what evidence was presented before them.  Funny how you mention not playing with certain people....gee I wonder why.

Not at all like a MK fanboy...

[fjl]

I've tried SF3 the first one and second impact. They where good in their own right. I have yet to try SF3 Third Strike.

But honestly, my favorite fighting game of all time, is Street Fighter Alpha 3. Not really sure why so many preffer Alpha 2 though. I actually like the whole air combo thing and being able to block in the air.

Also a good runner up is Super Smash Bros. for the N64. It sucked in that you could hit down and knock an oppent out of the ring even if they had full health. But at the same time, that's what made it so much fun. Smash Bros Melee, its sequel was fun too but it seemed like they spent way too much time balancing out the characters to a point where the game lost a lot of its appeal. It was fun, but not as fun as the first.

[saint]

yeah, um....asking someone to pick their favorite fighter without giving sf or mk as one of the choices is like saying:

"which Lord of the Rings movie is your favorite?  oh and you cant pick from any that were directed by peter jackson."

gay!

so my pick is super street fighter 2

Ralph Bakshi's version, of course

[northerngames]

Mortal Kombat 2
Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition
Killer Instinct
Soul Caliber 1-2

there all my fav's over any other fighter or version.

 

[saint]

Oh, and by the way, don't make me take a uppercut-uppercut-left-right-twirl-pirouette-bash-bash-curtsy-belch on this thread. Fight nice!

[SNAAKE]

  capcom vs snk 2

close thread.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

This thread reminds me of this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UMf40daefsI

[Ed_McCarron]

I'll repeat this again b/c you appear to be a little slow, CheffoJeffo:  Real men play games that require a PHD to understand the controls.      

Defender?

[Malenko]

I'll never get why people cant like MK and SF equally like me. Sometimes Im in the mood for SF sometimes MK.
the only thing MK definately has over SF is the side art and the first movie (MK the movie > SF the movie > MK Annihilation)

Next up, what is "best" is opinion, no one is right or wrong. he is right in thinking MK is better you are right for thinking SF is better.  I have a Dedicated MKII machine to play MK on and a MAME cab to play SF on, I just enjoy them both instead of bickering online about whats better.

Also, SFII:CE for sega genesis was a complete abomination ; dithered palette , garbled audio, and tapping start to switch between punches and kicks on a 3 button pad all failed out loud. But Im not gonna turn this SF vs MK flame fest into a SNES vs Genesis flame fest =)

[markrvp]

genesim is a ---meecrob---.

[jcoleman]

Also, SFII:CE for sega genesis was a complete abomination ; dithered palette , garbled audio, and tapping start to switch between punches and kicks on a 3 button pad all failed out loud. But Im not gonna turn this SF vs MK flame fest into a SNES vs Genesis flame fest =)

But with a six button controller it was GLORIOUS.  Gameplay rules above all, and I've never heard anyone question that the Genesis version was better.  Man, those were the days - we'd play that literally for HOURS in college.  Those six button Genesis controllers are still my favorite gamepads of all time.

I always liked MK][ for Genesis better too.  Maybe it's b/c most us had a Genesis but very few had a SNES...

Coleman

[genesim]

You guys are cracking me up.

MK sold with an estimated 15 million home cosole games a record not likely to ever be beaten when you speak of paying customers.    I remember when it went down, and I know that alot of games went into peoples homes.   It was hysteria.    At last I remember the coinops were in the neighborhood of 1000 ALONE.   This isn't included the spinoffs.   SFII franchise is around 5000 so you guys figure it out.

Great point on SFII still working on their beta while MK3 was released though.

I agree with Malenko.   I like both games, but I just prefer one over the other.  I have never said anything was "fact" other then the points of blockin and retreating etc.

I have stated over and over again that my OPINION was SFII was an inferior fighter with much less balance.   I believe whole heartedly my evidence supports this...hence the so many revisions.

But hey, it is a free country and fanboys will no doubt disagree no matter the evidenc.

Like it or not, Capcom defined the genre with SFII. All of the core gameplay of Mortal Kombat was dirivative of SFII. Even you admit that these problems were addressed. There are multiple revisions of the SFII's, but I've never seen anyone pay as much attention to revisions as the MK fans of the early 90's. There were some glaring issues that probably should have been caught during playtesting

SFII was inventive and MK took it even further with addition of the block button and the non retreating way it was played.    MK was not derivative of SFII other then it was a fighting game of which both were derivative of others.    The difference was that unlinke MK which needed 5 revisions for glitches and what not...SFII not only had those but needed integral parts of gameplay improved to "fix" the unbalanced behavior of the characters...i.e. Zangief walking through projectiles...Chun Li getting a fireball...etc.

To this day the characters are unbalanced and that is why there has never been a "pefect" SFII.    MK1 and MK2 are much more balanced, and anyone that has actually picked up the games will see. 

That's really weird, because from my experience I'd describe MK as the game where it's just random dumb luck, and SF2 the one where you use skill.

Obviously another that hasn't spent much time with either game.

You calling me ignorant, a loser, and an idiot don't count as name calling? From what I can tell, you do nothing but cause fights with people who know more than you. 

I never called you any of the above.  I try not to call direct names, I only imply.   

jcoleman,

Note this list only includes games that have sold more than 1 million copies.

SNES:
Street Fighter II (6.3 million)[29]
Super Street Fighter II (2 million)[29]
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.51 million in US)[33]
Mortal Kombat 3 (1.22 million in US)[33]

Genesis:
Mortal Kombat 2 (1.78 million in US) [33]
Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition (1.65 million)[29]


Then of course are the lists of franchises:
Street Fighter (25 million)[151]
Mortal Kombat (20 million)[155]

I guess that wraps it up...

So according to your info MK1 never broke a million??!!    Did you ever hear of Mortal Monday???


If you are speaking of franchise please be complete and include Deception(2 million), Deadly Alliance(2.6 million), Armeggoddon(1 million+), and Trilogy().

You will find with a little google that those numbers have been staggering. 
 
This crap reminds me of the RIAA though.   If you would believe them they have Bing Crosby as selling only 4 million albums. 

What gets me is wikipedia shows their reference for Deadly Alliance at 2 million but only give credit to 1.4???

The facts are that it is likely higher then that as per...

http://www.ladydragon.com/z/270204.html

The facts are that sales numbers for Video Games are tracked even less and estimates are all we have.   SFII was popular but not more popular then MK.    Rentals alone should show you this.  SFII was always easy to find.   MK is in pawn shops alot, no doubt.  Because so many damn games were sold.   A little research will give you obvious answers.

No other game in history was ported to so many different consoles in one release party.   Gamegear, Gameboy, Supernintendo, Genesis, Dos, Amiga, IBM, Sega Master System, NES,...then later Sega CD, Sony Playstation, XBOX...etc.

Use your head people and add it up.   As a fighting game, it was a landslide.   

Still,  MK was to me a much more balanced game that is alot more fun.     I like both though and it is like separating hairs.   

You don't like it, don't play it.   But don't pretend that a small group of people is the opinion of millions.   MK has taken a beating as of late because of the reputation that was lost through poor ports.    So it only stands to reason a bunch of seals are going to clap their "hate" for the game.   Well good, it separates the fans from the groupies.   

I played the original to great length, and it will always be my favorite game.   It has fond memories with me, and it has a paper rock scissors approach to its gameplay that once perfected(or close to it) it didn't need a thousand Supers and Turbos to match with the competition.

[Chris2]

Obviously the best one would be Mugen. Since it's infinitely expandable, you can potentially have all of the characters and stages of every fighting game ever inside one game, in addition to any original characters people create. It's pretty cool once you start amassing large amounts of characters and stages. Plus, anyone with good programming skills can make their own character. The only real issue is people making overpowered or broken characters, but most characters allow anyone to easily change their stats, making the issue slightly less obvious.

[leapinlew]

You guys are cracking me up.

You know what cracks me up? Reading your threads. They are always the same. I'm sure you've been accused of being hard headed and prideful before, but this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62829.0
Where you get your ass beat by RandyT. Thats my favorite so far. I don't know how RandyT can have so much patience with you. I recommend you hang around here for a while and keep saying dumb stuff. Keeps it interesting. 

If anyone else has any brain cells you don't want anymore, check out the link. Good stuff.

[CheffoJeffo]

You guys are cracking me up.

OK, I've avoided it until now, but I'm going to say it directly ... you really are too offensive for your own good ... you don't know how to debate, you are belligerent and you can't support your facts (even when some of them actually ARE facts).

Arguing points is one thing, but you keep telling people that they're stupid and don't understand, without any reasonable attempt to provide proof for your facts *and* you completely fail to address those who point your obnoxiousness out.

The last time you pulled this crap, you got your butt handed to you by RandyT and others in some sad attempt to justify your choice of an LCD over an arcade monitor (HINT: If you want an LCD, justify it by saying that you prefer an LCD instead of running your mouth, sounding like a clown and offending your superiors).

You even managed to make tranqhair look good in that thread ... and THAT takes talent.

Really, who is foolish enough to suggest that ahofle doesn't understand how an ArcadeVGA works and that RandyT doesn't have a defense (I may not always agree with RandyT, but I know that he usually has a point and that flailing away at him like a clueless monkey just makes you look more foolish).

And this time it is all because you prefer one lame fighter over another ... it's not like you're choosing between GOOD games, like, say Galaga and Robotron ...

 

EDIT: Get off my lawn !! Thanks Ray!

[ratzz]

Streets Of Rage rocks!

[RayB]

And this time it is all because you prefer one lame fighter over another ... it's not like you're choosing between GOOD games, like, say Galaga and Robotron ...

Hey, don't break the rules. Every statement like that must be followed by "Get off my lawn!"   

[jcoleman]

MK sold with an estimated 15 million home cosole games a record not likely to ever be beaten when you speak of paying customers.    I remember when it went down, and I know that alot of games went into peoples homes.   It was hysteria.    At last I remember the coinops were in the neighborhood of 1000 ALONE.   This isn't included the spinoffs.   SFII franchise is around 5000 so you guys figure it out.

Care to provide your source for these numbers?  I'd actually be interested in seeing it, b/c I'd really like to know how many of each classic cabinet was made.  That'd be a nice stat for MAME.  Anyway, I'm not impressed. 

But hey, it is a free country and fanboys will no doubt disagree no matter the evidenc.

You are clearly an expert in this subject.

SFII was inventive and MK took it even further with addition of the block button and the non retreating way it was played.    MK was not derivative of SFII other then it was a fighting game of which both were derivative of others.

Please name the player vs. player fighting games that came before Street Fighter 2, other than Karate Champ and that POS Pit Fighter.

I never called you any of the above.  I try not to call direct names, I only imply.

Yeah, that's a lot classier.

So according to your info MK1 never broke a million??!!    Did you ever hear of Mortal Monday???

Yeah, I was there picking up my copy, while you were likely having your diaper changed. If there's no reference, it doesn't stay on Wikipedia for long. If you have numbers and references with which to back your sales argument, please provide, otherwise don't bother arguing that point anymore.

You will find with a little google that those numbers have been staggering. 

Guess I'll have to do that myself since you can't be bothered with it...

http://www.ladydragon.com/z/270204.html
--snip--
The facts are that sales numbers for Video Games are tracked even less and estimates are all we have.   SFII was popular but not more popular then MK.    Rentals alone should show you this.  SFII was always easy to find.   MK is in pawn shops alot, no doubt.  Because so many damn games were sold.   A little research will give you obvious answers.

So basically you're arguing about numbers and saying that the numbers are probably not even that accurate...then you refer to some website in the middle of nowhere with no reference...then you give anoecdotal evidence.  You're really not doing a very good job arguing your side here.  I really hope you are not on your high school forensics team.  (this is what's known as baiting, BTW  )

But don't pretend that a small group of people is the opinion of millions.

No one did that.  You are the one who keeps equating units sold to quality.  Britney Spears sold over 76 million albums but that does not mean she is a good artist, now does it?

MK has taken a beating as of late because of the reputation that was lost through poor ports.

No, the beating you speak of is more like that of a dead horse...kind of like this thread...

Now GTFOML.

[genesim]

Please point out how "Randy T" beat my butt.

If you actually take the time to read what I wrote as opposed to being a groupie you will find that commons sense will tell you that I was correct from the beginning and even MAME devs themselves understood exactly what I spoke of.

To rehash it here is redundant, but I will say it shortly...you have no frickin' idea what you are talking about.   Randy T on the other hand understood exactly what I spoke of, but refused to speak of the most common sense aspect of the whole arguement.

Getting the pixels represented correctly is the ground floor of presenting emulation accurately.    Effects can be laid down later.   Randy T was arguing page after page about how the Programmers wanted it this way or that way....yet he never could comment on the simple fact that the card approximated the pixel output using a much more accurate means on an LCD screen.

Now care to comment on this fact or are either of you going to resort to more childish name calling.

Randy T did....that and the fact that he got his feewings hurt becaue I astutely pointed out that his hate came from bashing the Arcade VGA which wasn't made by him. 

Care to look at some history...check out some of his and Christains exchanges...not to mention with many others on this board. 

I apologized to him actually because I wasn't done with the debate and he cried off like a little girl.   Now who "beat the butt" in this regard?   Last I saw, the closer I got to the truth the more he skated.   If you undertood the arguement, perhaps you would agree with me...but of course that would mean that you would have to stop being a groupie and actually think for yourself.   

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Jcoleman,

I don't know how to get this through to you....but coming up with exact numbers would be rounding at best.    The Midway official website(or a link to the article) stated that MK the original arcade sold around 15 million.   I actually remember these figures from the old Game Pro magazines that I had at the time.    But you don't believe it, that doesn't matter.   I don't care if you believe it.

As for the rest of your personal attacks.   Only a coward would act like that.   I have never once disrespected you or anyone else for that matter, so you really can end this whole thing.   I could care less what you think or what you stand for.

No one did that.  You are the one who keeps equating units sold to quality.  Britney Spears sold over 76 million albums but that does not mean she is a good artist, now does it?

No one did that???   How red are those glasses anyway?    If you look at what was written...which means the opinion of a few on here doesn't equate to the opinion of millions...then you do understand that yes popularity is usually an indication of greatness.   Not always...but alot of the time.   

As for Britney...just what have you done lately?        So many followers on here, do you actually have opinions of your own?    Just how many times am I going to hear the Britney Spears equation.   Yet it never did have merit from the word go.   

If you don't have sense enough to debate with class, then maybe it is time you go.   

[Bleagh]

Great Swordsman from 84 was a damn fun game.   Simple, but fun.

edit:  Went back to check it out, turns out its not player vs player, darn!

[saint]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Jeff AMN]

Saint seems to be saying something...what could it be?

[MrMojoZ]

Streets Of Rage rocks!

It isn't a fighter though.

Also, MK was made popular due to the use of blood, secrets and fatalities. Not because of actual game play. I find it silly for someone to say otherwise, but it takes all kinds I guess.

[leapinlew]

Also, MK was made popular due to the use of blood, secrets and fatalities. Not because of actual game play. I find it silly for someone to say otherwise, but it takes all kinds I guess.

Now you've done it...

[4Aaron GE]

If you want to put everyone on a level playing field, I would suggest that you choose a game that not many people play, but is still fairly easy to learn.  Rage of the Dragons or Power Instinct Matrimelee fall square in the middle of that category.  Matrimelee also has some great music and graphics, considering the limitations of the Neo Geo platform.




Oh, and IBTL.

[DarkBubble]

Saint seems to be saying something...what could it be?

With any luck, it's the ancient chant of the Banhammer.

[Aquarius_Milo]

I dont remember the fightin game I think its called matrimelee his name is PEPE!

[markrvp]

Please point out how "Randy T" beat my butt.

If you actually take the time to read what I wrote as opposed to being a groupie you will find that commons sense will tell you that I was correct from the beginning and even MAME devs themselves understood exactly what I spoke of.

To rehash it here is redundant, but I will say it shortly...you have no frickin' idea what you are talking about.   Randy T on the other hand understood exactly what I spoke of, but refused to speak of the most common sense aspect of the whole arguement.

Getting the pixels represented correctly is the ground floor of presenting emulation accurately.    Effects can be laid down later.   Randy T was arguing page after page about how the Programmers wanted it this way or that way....yet he never could comment on the simple fact that the card approximated the pixel output using a much more accurate means on an LCD screen.

Now care to comment on this fact or are either of you going to resort to more childish name calling.

Randy T did....that and the fact that he got his feewings hurt becaue I astutely pointed out that his hate came from bashing the Arcade VGA which wasn't made by him. 

Care to look at some history...check out some of his and Christains exchanges...not to mention with many others on this board. 

I apologized to him actually because I wasn't done with the debate and he cried off like a little girl.   Now who "beat the butt" in this regard?   Last I saw, the closer I got to the truth the more he skated.   If you undertood the arguement, perhaps you would agree with me...but of course that would mean that you would have to stop being a groupie and actually think for yourself.   

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Jcoleman,

I don't know how to get this through to you....but coming up with exact numbers would be rounding at best.    The Midway official website(or a link to the article) stated that MK the original arcade sold around 15 million.   I actually remember these figures from the old Game Pro magazines that I had at the time.    But you don't believe it, that doesn't matter.   I don't care if you believe it.

As for the rest of your personal attacks.   Only a coward would act like that.   I have never once disrespected you or anyone else for that matter, so you really can end this whole thing.   I could care less what you think or what you stand for.

No one did that.  You are the one who keeps equating units sold to quality.  Britney Spears sold over 76 million albums but that does not mean she is a good artist, now does it?

No one did that???   How red are those glasses anyway?    If you look at what was written...which means the opinion of a few on here doesn't equate to the opinion of millions...then you do understand that yes popularity is usually an indication of greatness.   Not always...but alot of the time.   

As for Britney...just what have you done lately?        So many followers on here, do you actually have opinions of your own?    Just how many times am I going to hear the Britney Spears equation.   Yet it never did have merit from the word go.   

If you don't have sense enough to debate with class, then maybe it is time you go.   

Big Dooooooooooooooooooooooouche.

[Malenko]

pit fighter wasn't really a fighter, since it wasn't just 1 on 1 , it was sort of a side scrolling beat em that didn't side scroll. Lets just super derail this thread and say SFII is better and better on a CRT then MK on an LCD 

MK1 did use the blood and fatals to lure players in, thats what drew me to the game. However, they did put a lot of effort into improving the game and making MKII a much better then the first. Can you honestly say you didnt think it was neat to see reptile pull his hood off and gobble his opponents head?  And no that doesnt mean its "better" then SFII just different.

The thread title is way off it should read "What is your fave fighter?" or "What fighter do you think is best?"  there is no actual best.  Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Killer Instinct, hell even Eternal Champions all have their own fans for their own reasons. Why argue when you can just enjoy the damn games?

take the flames to PM, then you can flex your Ecocks and we dont have to read it.

[Gatsu]

#1.)Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike.

Amazing sprite animation. Uber tight controls. Very stylish and well rounded characters. Not all flashy and over the top like all the capcom/marvel crossovers....

#2.) Capcom vs. SNK 2

A good fighter...though it has some issues. Namely they cheaped out and rehashed old sprites from other games instead of updating them to match other cleaner sprites.

#3.) Guilty Gear

Fast...furious...and really damn good sprite animation.

#4.) Mortal Kombat II

Purely because its a friggin classic. I pumped so many quarters into this puppy.

#5.) Fatal Fury (Garou) Mark of the Wolf

Best SNK fighter IMO. I just love this game.

[jcoleman]

Wow, just wow.

 

Here endeth the insanity.

[Ed_McCarron]

Wild West C.O.W.-Boys Of Moo Mesa

[genesim]

Well said Malenko.   I like them all and on any given day can fire up most any one the ones you mentioned.

I just prefer MK and stated my reasons.   Nothing more..nothing less.

Saint has made his statment, and I will respect it.   No need to call names, and I for one am going to cease this nonesense.

Though, I must say elements of MK II were better but the overall balance was way off.   Reptile was weak and he was the glaring problem that was never fixed till 3.   The problem in that it brough on more imbalance till it got to the point of crazy.

Not to mention those horrendous  friendships.   To me, that was the beginning of the edge being taken off the game.   I appreciate the dark atmosphere of the first game, and that among a thousand other reasons is why I prefer the original.   

A special edition of the original should be made someday with more frames added as well as HD ala SFII.   That is all.   It has yet to be ported 100% correctly and that is a shame because it has always been a wonderful game.   Been playing for almost 15 years now and it has all the charm of the first coin entered.    Thank goodness for MAME because at least it was preserved in all its greatness.

As for part II...yeah I prefer Star Wars over Empire because it stands on its own...and just like MK the original will always be the most popular.   The debate over which is better will always rage on, but at least there are 2 games in the aresonal that set the parameters for all fighters that came after.   

Though Armeggedon is great fun, it will never give me that feeling that the old 2d games gave.

[jimjim]

My personal favorites are:

2D fighter
Marvel vs. Capcom 2  I own the Dreamcast and Xbox versions.  I love to play with characters that I grew up reading.  The saving up points to get extra characters kept me playing for hours.  The 3d background adds a little extra umph to the game.  I'm sure that there are better playing games, but this is a personal taste.

3D fighter
I like Soul Calibur.  Tekken, Virtua Fighter, DOA, are all great games, but for me, I've spent the most time on Soul Calibur.

Hybrid Figter/other
I'd have to go with another Dreamcast game.  I loved the Powerstone series.

Side Scroller/fighter
Once again, being a comic fan, I loved Captain America and X-men.  They were too short and with the advent of saves, or console ports, they don't have the replay value of vs. fighters.  There are many classics in this category.  I love Aliens vs. Predators, Asterix, Simpsons, Wild West C.O.W.  Boys of Moo Mesa, and TMNT.  Since they are more of a co-op type fighter, with endings, I don't think of them as fighters that have as dedicated following as a vs. type game.  Once you beat them, you think, "well that was cool, now what?"

Obscure Fighter
I remember playing Rocky 3 on the Colecovision.  It had a special controller with buttons inside a grip.  My buddies and I would spend hours on that game beating the crap out of each other.  It was cool having a special controller for a game.  I'm sure the memory of it is better than how good the game actually was.

[deanrichmonde]

Browsing around here, I wandered into the middle of the whole MK vs SF argument. I have heard people argue other games, but rarely compare them to SF. While I do not claim to be a techno savvy stud, nor a even a computer literate guy whatsoever, I did spend all my free time in the arcade like many young boys. So I will not try and fake it, and claim that I know a darn thing about "easter eggs" or "loop holes" or new editions with glitches and resolution.

I joined this web community just today, for a number of reasons, but the first thing I wanted to do was to call out a phony. Whoever Genesim is, and whatever he claims to know about anything, I don't buy it. He's pushing too hard. Like a used car salesman who just won't shut up about something stupid. Several people on this link voiced their opinion, and it all sounded sincere and genuine. I had no problem reading peoples preferences towards games I disliked, or ho-hummed about. But every...single...time I read a llloooonnnngggg quote from Genesim, I got irritated. And I don't even know the guy! It's not that I mind the long emails, or the preference of mk over sf. But he was soooo wrong, and he tried to sound soooo smart with things he claimed to be facts, but then never bothered to quote his sources.

He kept pushing for us to believe that he was only stating his opinion, but it felt like he was trying to force me to believe it. And when people started comparing the two games to chess and checkers, brilliant similarity. And therein lies the problem. It is a choice, a preference, an opinion, to enjoy mortal kombat over street fighter (any version, they all rock) but it is a fact that street fighter requires more skill... waaaayyyy more skill. That is not my personal opinion. Several people have added their proof; tournaments world wide constantly for sf but none for mk was my favorite point. (just like they don't have checkers tournaments... well, maybe in retirement homes they do...)

What I was writing for tonight, was to state my preference. I prefer SSF2. It is not my favorite game of all time, that is reserved for another. But the skill requirement is much higher for any/all sf games when compared to mk. Forget about graphics, and finishings, and glitches, and all the other nonsense. The skill is in sf.

And genesim, you sound educated, (not intelligent, just educated) so educate yourself on why you're so stubborn.

[RayB]

And The Best First Post award goes to........

 

[genesim]

Yeah it really takes skill to roach a Guille lover when you have the Ken/Akuma/Ryu/Sagat(and even Dan) combination.

The funny thing is that noone tackled my points, and instead got into a bunch of namecalling to "prove" their side.

YET, I said all along that my OPINION was just that.    My points weren't exactly for a rocket scientist.   Can the same be said for my opposition?  Those people believe that because they think SFII is superior then it must be gospel.

Street Fighter II (the original) was slow.   Only several...several revisions later did they even attempt to get it right.

Yet with the fireball added...Chun Li getting one slow..then fast...or Zangief walking through fireballs..etc. didn't change the fact that many characters were unbalanced and 2 people at similar skills would absolutely smash the other when picking said inferior character.

If my posts are too long for you to read, then tackle anything I have said.   Start there.   Instead of name calling, how about actually taking apart some of my points?

Why is it that I am sounding "so smart" when I am merely stating facts that even a monkey could understand.     Go back to page one.    Go back to where it all began and see who had the rude behavior.

I stated a game I liked, and it turned into a MK trashing fest.   Not only are most of the statements completely foolish, but they are also unwarranted.    It is like if someone said they liked *fill in blank* and I proceeded to take apart everything that the poster liked about the game.

I defend my taste, and I am the bad guy.   Yet others actually downright start name calling and starting out by calling me CRAZY personally or stating that I don't know what I am talking about in regards to fighting games.

I find this offensive because I am a veteran at video games...and lastly fighting games.    I know SFII quite well, and would consider myself a diehard, yet I also know its faults and calling it "deep" is just a coverup for not knowing the nuances of why it got its ass kicked in sales to begin with.

I love the game, but some of the blind devotion to the game just cracks me up.    The fabled SubZero glitch(which again was eliminated by revision 5) is oh too much, yet the whole unbalance of several SFII characters are ok?

Are we seeing a trend here.   Just because it is a witch hunt doesn't make it correct.    Most people are followers, and you know from the news that the mob mentality is a sickness that plagues society.

While I do not claim to be a techno savvy stud, nor a even a computer literate guy whatsoever, I did spend all my free time in the arcade like many young boys. So I will not try and fake it, and claim that I know a darn thing about "easter eggs" or "loop holes" or new editions with glitches and resolution.

And that is your problem.   But I personally have played that many hours and much more.    I practically dedicate my life to them.    I have friends fly out to check out my arcade and we literally spend days playing fighting games.   

Several people have added their proof; tournaments world wide constantly for sf but none for mk was my favorite point. (just like they don't have checkers tournaments... well, maybe in retirement homes they do...)

Where do you or them get this crap?   Besides the number one tournament was in the game itself.     Seriously, there have been MK tournaments and they no doubt still exist, but most of it is just a PR stunt.    Most of the best players out there don't even participate.   It is not a matter of real skill, because the competition is mostly playing for their own amusement.     That has never held water for me...then or now.

Now the online thing, that is another story.   A much bigger pool.   Ultimate MK3 recently was found to be the largest XBOX 360 download for online play.    There are some really great players out there, and instead of just looking into a small community, you might want to venture out in the world a bit.    The emperors clothes may not be what they seem.

[CheffoJeffo]

Is anybody else reminded of a certain someone and his favourite joysticks ?

 

[genesim]

Oh no its the STALKER....PART II... ch ch ch ch ha ha ha.

XXXXXXXXXXX

Alright, admin, I am done.   I hate to get this post deleted or get kicked off of here.

I would rather leave all this behind.   Think what you want guys, but I tried to have a civlized discussion, but apparently if you aren't part of SFII fan club then there is no chance for survival.

Hopefully all this will leave this thread and lets get on to better things.

We all have our likes and dislikes and it actually pains me to put down a good game.   In my own view it is like splitting hairs.     Depending on the kick I am on KOF, SFII, MK, Last Blade, Killer Instinct, the VS series...and even in the rarest times Street Fighter The Movie.

Eternal Champions I miss, but I am too lazy to seek out a good emulator or rig a sega genesis....yet.

[CheffoJeffo]

Oh no its the STALKER....PART II... ch ch ch ch ha ha ha.

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

I'm more of a Michael Myers kinda guy though ....

[SavannahLion]

Saint seems to be saying something...what could it be?

That Snoopy was above and beyond what Lassie could ever hope to be? Snoopy flew his own freaking doghouse against the Red Baron, all Lassie did was save people after they fell down wells.

[jcoleman]

Not to mention that Snoopy sold a lot more toys than Lassie ever did...

[Warborg]

Oh no its the STALKER....PART II... ch ch ch ch ha ha ha.

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

I'm more of a Michael Myers kinda guy though ....

You and your blind devotion to Michael Myers!  Freddy Krueger was WAY better and I can prove it!  Just don't ask me to provide said proof... 

[youki]

The 2 best for me are :

1- IK+   (Commodore 64, Atari XL , Atari St, Amiga ,  version on other machine i don't like)    the fact to have a 3rd player (computer controlled) in the loop was really a good idea!!

2-Soul Calibur 1  Dreamcast version.

Nothing really good for me between these 2.

Before IK+   few were good like :   Internationnal Karaté ,  The Way of Exploiding Fist and Barbarian.

But IK+ will stay the best of the best in my heart! 

[CheffoJeffo]

You and your blind devotion to Michael Myers!  Freddy Krueger was WAY better and I can prove it!  Just don't ask me to provide said proof... 

You forgot to say that I have no understanding of Nightmare On Elm Street and that I am ignorant and need to go back and read carefully. 

[leapinlew]

The funny thing is that noone tackled my points, and instead got into a bunch of namecalling to "prove" their side.

Here we go.

Street Fighter II (the original) was slow.   Only several...several revisions later did they even attempt to get it right.

Limitations of the hardware. It was 1991. As hardware got faster, the gameplay got faster. Same is said for MK in regards to graphics.

Why is it that I am sounding "so smart" when I am merely stating facts that even a monkey could understand.     Go back to page one.    Go back to where it all began and see who had the rude behavior.

Here you are calling someone a monkey/or/your saying they have the comprehension of a monkey.

is just a coverup for not knowing the nuances of why it got its ass kicked in sales to begin with.

You have yet to provide any proof of this. Are we supposed to take your word for it?

I love the game, but some of the blind devotion to the game just cracks me up.    The fabled SubZero glitch(which again was eliminated by revision 5) is oh too much, yet the whole unbalance of several SFII characters are ok?

The glitch was so bad, it caused a no-throw rule that still existed in MK3.

And that is your problem.   But I personally have played that many hours and much more.    I practically dedicate my life to them.    I have friends fly out to check out my arcade and we literally spend days playing fighting games.   

And therein lies the problem - you didn't develop social skills.

Now the online thing, that is another story.   A much bigger pool.   Ultimate MK3 recently was found to be the largest XBOX 360 download for online play.   

You know this is BS. Prove it. Quote a source.

There, I tackled your lame points. And I'm sure you'll counter with no facts and just insults.

Thats weak man.

[CheffoJeffo]

is just a coverup for not knowing the nuances of why it got its ass kicked in sales to begin with.

You have yet to provide any proof of this. Are we supposed to take your word for it?

One thing to consider is that I think dude is console-centric in his thinking (NTTIATWWT):

While I would certaintly never put down somebody's home project, I am just wondering why you didn't go with Mortal Kombat Gold on the Dreamcast.

It seems this is a superior version with more playable characters.   I have it running to my PC monitor and it looks great.   

Maybe there is something I don't know though because I didn't play it much on the arcade.   

He was wondering why someone wanted to run an MK4 board in a JAMMA cab.

I think it explains some of his beliefs and attitude about this 'little community'.

[Warborg]

You and your blind devotion to Michael Myers!  Freddy Krueger was WAY better and I can prove it!  Just don't ask me to provide said proof... 

You forgot to say that I have no understanding of Nightmare On Elm Street and that I am ignorant and need to go back and read carefully. 

I feel as though I should actually rant about how you have no idea what was going through Wes Craven's mind when he wrote it, and how what we are seeing on our TVs isn't true to the original script...   

[CheffoJeffo]

You and your blind devotion to Michael Myers!  Freddy Krueger was WAY better and I can prove it!  Just don't ask me to provide said proof... 

You forgot to say that I have no understanding of Nightmare On Elm Street and that I am ignorant and need to go back and read carefully. 

I feel as though I should actually rant about how you have no idea what was going through Wes Craven's mind when he wrote it, and how what we are seeing on our TVs isn't true to the original script...   

 

[MrMojoZ]

... but apparently if you aren't part of SFII fan club then there is no chance for survival.

Sweety, I hate to break this to you but that sentence alone proves that you know SF is/was more popular than MK. Lets not have to go back to your CPU thread now, that was brutal.

[shardian]

[lanman31337]

Time Killers - You could hack each other's limbs off!

[ahofle]

I stated a game I liked, and it turned into a MK trashing fest.   Not only are most of the statements completely foolish, but they are also unwarranted.    It is like if someone said they liked *fill in blank* and I proceeded to take apart everything that the poster liked about the game.

You honestly sound surprised at peoples' responses to most of your posts, so I'm going to try to help.  Perhaps in the future when you state you "like *fill in the blank*", you could try leaving out the arrogance, condescension, and animosity.  Unless of course, like me, you enjoy the spectacle that seems to come out of just about every thread you post to.

I feel as though I should actually rant about how you have no idea what was going through Wes Craven's mind when he wrote it, and how what we are seeing on our TVs isn't true to the original script...   

I seriously spit out my coffee!     

[genesim]

This is way to much fun to pass up.   So many lies on here.   Lets tackle them one by one.

Warborg,

You and your blind devotion to Michael Myers!  Freddy Krueger was WAY better and I can prove it!  Just don't ask me to provide said proof... 

When have I ever said that I can "prove it".   Alot of things are hard to prove because articles don't stay around the net, or they were never posted to begin with...i.e. Mortal Kombat Mortal Monday cross platform game sales.   

So your statement above would be clever if I actually said such a thing.

You forgot to say that I have no understanding of Nightmare On Elm Street and that I am ignorant and need to go back and read carefully.

I have never called anyone directly ignorant, and you obviously have a problem reading and comprehending or you would know this fact.   Now on the other hand there are many here who have directly called me names and of course you choose to ignore them....why because you are a follower.

He was wondering why someone wanted to run an MK4 board in a JAMMA cab.

And what is wrong with that?    MK4 Gold seems to be a far superior game and it also looks better to boot because of the high resolution.    Geez stalker what else are you going to attack?

Sweety, I hate to break this to you but that sentence alone proves that you know SF is/was more popular than MK. Lets not have to go back to your CPU thread now, that was brutal.

Ummm no, it is more like what I said before, it was in reference to this board and what guys believe around HERE.     You are so far behind, where do I start "sweety".     Go back and read.   

Shardian,

Rather be a so called "troll" then a follower.      Funny how the tactics are quite prevalent on the net when you don't agree with the majority.   No....I am not an android...must have new thoughts......

Ahofle,

What does this have to do with you.    I thought we ironed out a few things.    What galls me is how so many people have to follow where the discussion had nothing to do with them.    WHERE WAS THE ARROGANCE WHEN I POSTED MY GAME.

If anything I was having fun, till certain people came on and acted like compete tools because I picked MK over their tastes.   

By the way, it isn't "liking the spectacle", it is actually a calling out on the groupie syndrome that has plagued the board for a while.   

[CheffoJeffo]

You forgot to say that I have no understanding of Nightmare On Elm Street and that I am ignorant and need to go back and read carefully.

I have never called anyone directly ignorant, and you obviously have a problem reading and comprehending or you would know this fact.

Wait , what ?

As for the "limiting" moves...again, more ignorance.   

Pretty sure that was directed at Lew ... if I am mistaken, please let me know who that was directed at.

QED

[genesim]

Do you not understand the difference between having the characteristics of ignorance and actually calling that person directly IGNORANT.

At least with the first example there is hope.

This is just like you accusing me of calling people "stupid".    No, I have never worked that way.      But implying is a much more powerful tool.    Often those same people will take the bait hook, line, and sinker.    But usually, I don't say any of the above until attacked first.

Now that said, a bunch of followers come out of the woodwork because I am better at it then they are, so rather go man to man, they resort to mob mentality.   

[CheffoJeffo]

This is just like you accusing me of calling people "stupid".    No, I have never worked that way.      But implying is a much more powerful tool.   

How's that working out for you ?

[CheffoJeffo]

Do you not understand the difference between having the characteristics of ignorance and actually calling that person directly IGNORANT.

Nope, since, by definition, IGNORANCE is the state of being IGNORANT .... benefits of a classical education.

[genesim]

How's that working out for you ?

As opposed to doing what would be accepted?   

Also, one can have ignorance on a subject and not be a totally ignorant person(lacking "classical eductation").

Do you see the difference?   I would much rather have someone imply that I have ignorance...or better yet in my case, I imply that people that think like that...etc.    As opposed to out and out namecalling that person.

You can be ignorant on a subject matter and still be okay with further logic and understanding.   With people like I spoke of...I have doubts though.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

But hey, all I want to say is that I am sorry.    I look back and I should have toned it down a little.   I am only passionate on the subject matter.

SFII was much better all along.  Now does that make peace?    We all got to think alike right?

[Warborg]

SFII was much better all along.  Now does that make peace?    We all got to think alike right?

Welcome to The Collective.  Resistance is futile.

[saint]

This thread makes me sad.