Beware of Harbor Frieght Slot Cutters! Here is my lesson.

[Vigo]

Hey, small Asian women hunched over sewing machines have kept the world from going naked. Kind like how the world would probably go cookieless without the keebler elves. My eyes thank Ling and her elegant textile designs.

[kahlid74]

I'm a bit late to this party and much of what I would say has already been said, so I'll just add the part where we talk about buying cheap bits from a supplier who is known to have quality issues and we'll then spin them at 10,000 rpm and expect no issues.

I don't shop harbor freight at all, but I do use their 25% off coupon to get really good deals on stuff from HD and Lowes.  Whiteside or Freud are usually what I go with.  More money but for the additional quality I'm in favor of it.

[screamingtiger]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

I'm a bit late to this party and much of what I would say has already been said, so I'll just add the part where we talk about buying cheap bits from a supplier who is known to have quality issues and we'll then spin them at 10,000 rpm and expect no issues.

I don't shop harbor freight at all, but I do use their 25% off coupon to get really good deals on stuff from HD and Lowes.  Whiteside or Freud are usually what I go with.  More money but for the additional quality I'm in favor of it.

[screamingtiger]

Just a quick update.  I went through a couple more grinding stones and got that "1/16" bit to work!  Part of the issue is the bearing seized up, so I got that fixed and it worked well.  However I did set off the smoke alarms for quite awhile.  I didnt realize how much smoke there was until I turned off the router and heard the alarms   

Note:  The blade was not backwards, it was dull from me grinding on it.

The slot is pretty good, it is not perfectly centered in all spots.  With the small router and dull blade it was a bit of a challenge towards the ends of the pieces where the router had less support.
I also did not use the full depth, and this helped a lot as well.  It was cutting way too deep with the default bearing.  I cuth half the depth which is still plenty for the tmolding sample I have.

I sincerely believe witha sharp bit the palm router is more than suffice, but given its the first time I ever used one I think it turned out ok.  I will post pics in my original thread.

Time to order t molding!

[Vigo]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

I've tried before. Mine don't. Probably a total YMMV situation. I've tried multiple times at both near me, and the coupon needed to be for a product offered that is identical model to what they offer. It also needed to be a store that is within a (I think) a 25 mile radius. And they wanted my to prove via flyer the product is identical. I think it was HD that even had a binder with all the flyers ready to check if what I brought in was legit.

Maybe they have more serious abuse of those policies around my neck of the woods, but I never had any luck getting anything from HF matched to them. Give it a try though, maybe it was just I have been going about it all wrong. 

Just a quick update.  I went through a couple more grinding stones and got that "1/16" bit to work!

Awesome! Glad you are done with that dose of aggravation. 

[spoot]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

Depends on the cashier and/or manager at the time.

[ChadTower]

I think it's just kind of known around here that if you buy anything from Harbor Freight, it's a crapshoot. 

This.

Pretty much anything from HF is 50% failure rate right out of the box and another 25% within 5 uses.

[pbj]

Really makes me wonder what the hell you guys do to your tools.

[ChadTower]

I tried to use their stuff.  Bought an air compressor there... DOA.  Returned for another... DOA.  Returned for a third and that one actually popped a weld the first time it came up to pressure.  Shot a piece of metal across the room.  There wasn't a fourth.

Can't tell you how many hand tools like crimpers or pliers I tried from them that would just snap off at the pivot or the handle would break.  I tried a bunch of their air hose quick fittings and they all leaked so badly I thought I was using them wrong.  They were just poor fitting.

[yotsuya]

I only buy stuff like clamps from there. Most I've ever spent was $20 out the door.

[knave]

Makes me think we need a separate thread of things that are worth getting at HF

Yotsuya says clamps

I only go with coupons. HF is 4 miles from me and on my way to the GYM.

I get or use:
- Tarps
- Bungee cords
- Work gloves
- Shrink tubing
- Magnetic parts holders
- Screw drivers
- Pliers/channel locks
- hammers
- Large adjustable wrenches
- Wire strippers
- Sanding blocks
- Power strips
- Extension cord replacement ends
- Cordless power tool replacement batteries (I take these apart and use them for my good tools)
- A toolbox (works great)
- casters
- funnels
- drill bits
- coolant filter wrench

It's not that the items would be too expensive at HD or Lowes, but that its fun get a deal and I get of cheap on a few select tools and items I don't use often. These items are pretty much the same anywhere.

Sometimes I go and don't find anything I need on sale.

and I have found crap.
I bought the Cheap rotary tool and it is all crap. Not worth the cardboard it was packaged in...but that's my only disappointment.
Some cheap tools may break but usually worth it for one-of projects...and the non durable tools wear out.
I will agree that their air fittings can leak but work well enough so far.

[Slippyblade]

I had a laminate trim router from there that I abused the hell out of for about three years, totally worth it.  I also have a lot of normal hand tools from there that are good.

E-clip/Ring pliers
Ratchet crimper (ps - they used to sell one with punched steel plate jaws, that one sucked.  They now sell one with die cast jaws.  Those ones are good.)

I use a LOT of the freebie coupons as well.

[screamingtiger]

To add insult to injury, I ordered my to molding today from t-molding.com
I only needed 20 feet but I wanted 21 for some extra.  While the min order is 20 feet, they actually only sell in 20 foot increments.
Unfortunately I need 1/2" t-molding so my options for ordering are few.

$26 later I have it ordered.  $12 shipping is kinda high. 

So lets take inventory again:

Palm Router:  $20
HF Slot Cutters: $20
T Molding:  $26

Total:  $66!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep in mind this doesnt include my time and frusteration.  However I traded that for cheap stuff.  If done the right way it would of been over $100.

It is VERY CLEAR to me this t-molding is a niche with the slot cutters and probably mostly used by arcade builders.  They are seriously gouging us on the prices for this crap.

The t molding tools and install cost about as much as my graphics will.   


Ok no need to tear my post apart, I am just complaining!!  Get it installed, move on!

[pbj]

20 foot increments from t-molding.com is one of the longest running scams in this hobby.  I feel your pain.

 

[yotsuya]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

[screamingtiger]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

I tried it, almost everything out of stock!

[Sarver Systems]

I just bought a bench grinder/buffer from HF.

It came with 2 buff wheels, but I swapped one out for a wire wheel.

I havent used it yet, but I did get it set up and turned it on.

Seems pretty decent so far.

[yotsuya]

Let's put it this way - I wouldn't buy anything from Harbor Freight that has the potential to maim or kill me.

[Vigo]

I just bought a bench grinder/buffer from HF.

It came with 2 buff wheels, but I swapped one out for a wire wheel.

I havent used it yet, but I did get it set up and turned it on.

Seems pretty decent so far.

Been extremely pleased with my HF grinder. Stand I bought was solid too. Grinder runs smooth - It will keep spinning for 5-10 minutes after I power down.

[Sarver Systems]

Oh, a stand for it? I didn't see that!

[pbj]

My grinder is a motor out of a dishwasher with a grinding wheel shoved on it.  Probably at least 30 years old.

 

[Vigo]

Oh, a stand for it? I didn't see that!

This is the one I have:

http://www.harborfreight.com/universal-bench-grinder-stand-3184.html

[EvilNuff]

Anything that is just a tool by weight is going to be a bargain there.  Hammers, wrenches, etc.  Anything that.  Also anything that does not have the potential to break in a dangerous manner.  So for example a $20 cordless drill is a good buy if you consider it disposable for a year or so's use.  Paint brushes, a post hole digger, shovels, etc.

[Vigo]

My grinder is a motor out of a dishwasher with a grinding wheel shoved on it.  Probably at least 30 years old.

 

Absolutely a valid tool.  30-40 years ago, most home shops were filled with home built power tools. No idea how we got so uppity about tools that we brush off anything without a price tag that you have to grab your ankles and bend over to take it. I'm looking at getting a spindle sander right now. Used my fathers homemade one as a kid, and it was by far one of the most useful sanders I ever used. Looking at what is on the market, it is hard to find anything "quality name brand" that is not gonna rape me out of $300-$1000. Insane for spinning sandpaper on a stick.

[dkersten]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

I will amend the idea that any "heavy" tools (hammers, wrenches, etc) are just fine with the caveat that they are just for "handyman" use.  A poorly made hammer will break, bend, and mushroom out of shape (not to mention end up not being very ergonomic and potentially injure the user).  A cheap open end wrench will break, bend, and round out even under the most general use.  But in either case if you are using it a few times a year, it will likely last.  Eventually having to replace broken and bent screwdrivers over the years will add up to the cost of one good one that would last a lifetime of everyday use.

Cheap tools have their uses.  Plus, many of the HF tools I have bought over the years were bought for a purpose other than what the tool was designed for, strictly because it was cheap enough to modify even if it ruined it as the original tool.  I wouldn't modify a $70 wrench from Snap-On, but a $3 wrench is an entirely different story.

[screamingtiger]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

Agreed, but with a little practice it can produce a great result very cheap.  The key is having a good bit though.    No need for a $70 router for single use.  I have not found anywhere including HD or lowes that will rent a router.  The mainly do big tools in my area.  I did it cheap, and if I am off its not hard to fix, just fill the slot using spackle and superglue, then reslot it.

[yotsuya]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

Agreed, but with a little practice it can produce a great result very cheap.  The key is having a good bit though.    No need for a $70 router for single use.  I have not found anywhere including HD or lowes that will rent a router.  The mainly do big tools in my area.  I did it cheap, and if I am off its not hard to fix, just fill the slot using spackle and superglue, then reslot it.

I found that if you buy a $70 to cut t-molding, you'll find many other good uses for it in time to justify the cost. Hell, I'm going to use it today after work to trim down a door  in an area where I just laid down some new tile...

[Saneless]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

That's where I got mine.  I think I got 50 feet for 15 bucks.  Leather textured even

The 20-foot-only increments is the reason I didn't even bother with t-molding because I didn't want to be forced to buy a bunch I wouldn't use.

At 50 feet I chose to buy a bunch I won't use.

[pbj]

Last time I bought t-molding from t-molding.com, it was cheaper to get 100 feet from them via Amazon than 40 feet through their website. 

Somewhere in my attic of horrors is ~70 feet of t-molding.

[dkersten]

I bought 30 feet from twisted quarter and it came in 5 pieces all different lengths.. Thankfully between what I already had on hand and what showed up, I ended up with two pieces just over the ~11 feet I needed for the project.

I found that if you buy a $70 to cut t-molding, you'll find many other good uses for it in time to justify the cost. Hell, I'm going to use it today after work to trim down a door  in an area where I just laid down some new tile...

This is exactly my point.. Unless you are 80 years old and on a fixed income with no possible use for a tool after you use it once, chances are you will find a use for it later in life, likely multiple times.  I justified my first router purchase with the cost of having a counter top made for a bathroom renovation.  The countertop would have cost me just over $200 to have made, the parts to make one myself cost around $50 and the router was $150.  I probably have close to 80 hours of run time on that router 15 years later.. AND learning to use it has saved or earned me thousands of dollars since.  A $30 HF palm router might have done the one job back then, but it would have failed 10 times over since then.  But then if I went and purchased a $300 torque wrench instead of the $20 one I bought for the 3 jobs I have used it for, it probably wouldn't be justified.  So to each their own.. 

(Then again, if I HAD a $300 torque wrench, I bet I would end up using it more often, if nothing else than to lend it to a friend when they are in need)

[Vigo]

This is exactly my point.. Unless you are 80 years old and on a fixed income with no possible use for a tool after you use it once, chances are you will find a use for it later in life, likely multiple times.

The fatal flaw with this kind of "40 year" thinking is that you are assuming that is the exact type of tool you will need down the road, or that even a name brand tool will last indefinitely. Unless you can nonchalantly throw kaneda cash at every tool you want, you are gonna end up wasting more money for "brand" than you would waste starting out with a cheaper tool.

Buying cheaper tools first is not a new phenomena. It has always been the standard to do so. Tools would be classified as "Apprentice tools", "Journeyman tools" and "Master tools". My gut tells me that it just never translated well to power tools because until recently, power tools have all been expensive to manufacture.

For instance, I needed a drill press. I bought a press well suited for me from HF for $40. I use it all the time, and have been very impressed with how useful a drill press is for my needs. Now, I could have spend $300 for a "quality" equivalent, but the honest truth is when my drill press kicks the bucket, I plan on getting a well thought out model, but with the foresight of seeing exactly what the features important to me are. Things like plunge depth, spindle to table distance or radial arm adjustment were simply not on my radar when I made my purchase, and you can easily spend $500 on a press, but find out it is missing out on very critical features.

Likewise, you might think your tool is all that and a bag of chips right now, but find it is a dinosaur a decade down the road. Until recently, people were not buying compound sliding miter saws. Now, it is pretty much a must have feature. People are dumping $700 miter saws they bought 10-15 years ago because they compounds were never accurate enough to be feasible until recently. I'm still happy with my Hitachi I bought out of college, but it is compound or bust for me now. How about air compressor technology? Not too many years ago, a good air compressor meant you had a giant 40 gallon tank taking up the corner of your garage or shop. Hard to move and very expensive. Compressors and tools have improved so dramatically that you can easily keep a portable compressor wherever you go, roof, Car on the street, crawlspace, you name it. Don't let me even get started on why you shouldn't dive in head first on battery powered tools.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a cheaper tool until you become adept with it, know your exact needs and make a well thought out decision to upgrade when you have the experience and finesse.

[dkersten]

I tend to agree that when it comes to specialized tools, there are a variety of ways to approach purchasing.  But a router, in my opinion, is one of the "staple" tools for any hobbyist, craftsman, or carpenter who will work with wood in their lifetime.  Along with a router, a power drill and a circular saw are pretty much all the power tools that are truly required to do just about anything.  It is one of the few tools I would never consider buying cheap. 

PLUS, a router spins at 10-30 THOUSAND RPM!  That is a tremendous amount of rotational energy, even with a small bit, and I for one would never stand near (let alone hold) a tool that was made with the lowest possible quality materials, labor, and quality control standards that contained that much potential energy.  I value my fingers and skin way too much for that.  But that is my opinion, other's may see things differently. (I have not personally lost anything larger than a chunk of flesh from a power tool but I have witnessed tool failures causing great bodily harm in my life).

As for your example with the drill, I understand, and I can't say that you went the wrong direction with that.  However, quality tools hold their value more than just about anything else you can purchase (that you would use, there are plenty of things you can buy and never use that will hold value).  My table saw, for example, is just a simple Delta contractor saw (at least the base is, I have modified the rest to be much more).  About 25 years ago it cost around $300 to buy brand new.  I purchased it 13 years ago for ... $300.  Today, I could put it back to its stock form and sell it for $300+ quite easily.  Aside from cordless tools which have become so common (and have batteries that degrade over time and use), any decent power tool will have a fairly static value from the day you buy it.  You could argue that with inflation I have lost value in those tools, but the fact is if I hadn't bought those tools, that money would have ended up being spent elsewhere, and likely on something that is worth far less today.  You could also reasonably argue that buying a tool brand new is like buying a car brand new, and the moment you take it home it loses a big part of it's value.  This is true, but it is fairly minimal, and also a good reason to buy used to begin with. 

While newer tools tend to be "technologically superior", they also tend to be built far "leaner" (which translates to not lasting as long) and people will often pay for the older gear for that very reason.  I would kill to have back some of the older tools I traded off for newer "upgrades" that turned out to not be nearly the same quality as the older items.  I suppose that is one reason to buy the cheapest stuff you can find the first time around... when you go to upgrade, no matter how far it falls short of what you thought it would do for you, it will still always be superior to what you had, lol. 

[Vigo]

I absolutely agree with you about the staple tools. Maybe a little on the edge about counting power drills, because there are a variety in that family to get to cover your bases, hammering drill, battery driver drill, impact driver, etc.

I agree about the router, though. I wouldn't touch a HF router, or wish it on my enemy. As a "staple" tool, a good router is a smart one to invest in. Same time, I don't think everyone absolutely needs the $300 Porter cable or bosch routers. Both are darn good tools, and easily money wells spent. A ~$100 skil or ryobi is gonna be safe and reliable for quite a few years. Little things like depth adjustment knobs won't be as solid, and I doubt they would survive a drop so well, but they will cut wood just the same. I'm pretty sure a good routers are gonna age well, no matter what lasers or doodats they try to add to them, and one of the very few tools that you can still get in a solid metal encasement.

[RandyT]

It's all been said, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.  If you don't have any problems playing the lottery, then you shouldn't worry too much about Harbor Freight.  They do have some good tools there, at very reasonable prices.   I have several drill presses from there which are 10+ years old and used daily.  The only problem I have had with them is the plastic grips break off over time.  They look better with reject economy ball tops on them anyway, and they fit perfect  .

General rule of thumb is not to buy anything which could kill you or which could destroy expensive or hard to replace materials, if it doesn't work right.  Learned that lesson the hard way on my newly poured epoxy topped shuffleboard restoration.  Didn't have a good flush trim bit for the epoxy, so I pulled one out of the router bit set from HF.  Big mistake.  Half way through trimming the epoxy, the bearing disintegrates, leading to gouges in both the top, and the edge of the board.  I could have cried.  Required a re-pour ($$$) and a few hours with wood filler and sandpaper to repair.

The safest bet is not to buy the least expensive version of anything they sell, and don't try to push the tools beyond what you'd expect a tool of that price to be able to handle.   If you buy a cheap drill, use it as a drill, and don't try to put a 3 1/2" hole saw on it to go through a 16" exterior wall (ask me how I know).  If you see a wrench set that costs half that of a similar set sitting next to it, don't expect it to be as good.  It's not.  These sound like obvious things, but it's hard not to get caught up in "thrift" mode and ignore the obvious.  You really do get what you pay for.

I've shopped there for years, and have amassed a tool collection which covers just about everything I'll want to do, works well, and cost but a fraction of purchasing elsewhere.  Drill presses, industrial sanders, huge air compressor, dust collector, bandsaws, both vertical and horizontal, powder coat oven, sandblaster cabinet, welder and smaller tools too numerous to list.  You just have to know what to buy, and sometimes play the "lottery", with the expectation of buying another, or repairing it if it breaks (it's usually cheap enough to do several times before approaching "DeWalt" prices).  But I will say that my routers are Milwaukee and Porter Cable....I'm not crazy

[Vigo]

That is pure awesome you use ball tops on your drill press handles. 

[screamingtiger]

I got my t molding installed.  It kinda pissed me off that they sent two rolls of 20 feet.  I ordered 40 feet so they should of just sent a roll of 40.
This tells me this stuff is precut and that is why they sell it that way.  So I wonder why it took 5 days to ship?   

Back to the point, a couple touchups with the router.  In one spot I got off center probably because its a small router and I suck at using it.  But I am being very nit picky. 
IN a couple spots had to use some hot glue which works very well BTW to hold the t-molding.  In another spot had to cut the spline down as the screws I used in the wood were too close the edge and I got some nice sparks when cutting the  slot.   

So there ya have it, $66 to get t molding installed and some frusteration!  $66 is not much more than the cost of a bigger router at HF so I feel I did ok.  Fortunately time wise I didnt care to have this complete until late Nov as the weather is nice right now in my area.  So its all good.

One other small thing, I ordred some LED from amazon, the led strips you can buy in 16 feet increments for $8.  Harbor freight style.  I have to say they work very well, short of the LED being spaced a bit far apart.  But for that price you can double up the strips.  They just look like xmas lights instead of a solid line of light is all.

Point is somethings are cheap and still work well!  Ironically I ordered 5 rolls because I thought thye were 16 inches.  Ha Ha. 

[Vigo]

$66 from scratch. Not bad, especially when having to order 40' of T-molding.

[dkersten]

Those strips have some good uses, but controlling them can get interesting.  The spacing is actually good if you are reflecting the light off a surface, but directly, they are just Christmas lights like you said.  They disperse very well though, and can be used for a number of things.  Ambient lighting around the cabinet, as marquee lighting, utility lighting inside the cabinet, and as party lighting for your arcade room.  I also used some around my deck outside for lighting, and set up a controller that works through my network and is controlled by my phone.  On a cab I did, I did cabinet lighting with the RGB strips and controlled it with an LED-Wiz from GGG so that LEDBlinky could control lighting animations during games and in the front end.  I also used small segments to change the lighting on the coin door reject buttons.

[Sarver Systems]

Link to the lights?

[screamingtiger]

The lights I used are these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSF64E6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you click on the "sold by" link you can see all the colors they have.  The blue is very bright, the red is not as bright.  I ordred the 3528  versions.  I do think if you want consistent brightness across all colors the red ones should be the 5050 versions.  the 3528 white and blue are way brighter than the other colors.  the come with power adapter soldered on to use a brick type DC adapter, it comes with a spare adapater you can solder on.  No power supply comes with it but you can find them all over, 12V.  Most routers (network) use a 12V adapter.  Do not buy the $10 power supply, what a waste.  Then can be had for 25 cents.

They can be cut every 3 LEDs and have a line where to cut them, and on the end of each 3 led segments, there are + and - terminals to solder wires on.   So if you want to make a square, you ahve to cut 4 parts to length and then use small wires to solder the pieces together. 

They have a built in resister so no need to worry about over amping a power supply.   I'll try to get soem amp readings but I do think a small strip of then a couple feet long could be directly powered by an aurduino at 40mA.

I'll come back in and post some pics, I am ordering a marquee soon.