Beware of Harbor Frieght Slot Cutters! Here is my lesson.

[screamingtiger]

I bought the 7 pack for ~$25USD, as seen here:
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-pc-slot-cutter-set-for-table-routers-68876.html   

There are two versions, one with a 1/2 shaft arbor and the other has a 1/4" shaft.  I used the 1/4" shaft.
I only checked the 1/16th cutter, using a caliper I checked the blades and they are closer to 3/32.  The disc the blades are on is 1/16, maybe that is what they measure.

Anyways I attempted to use a dremel and grinding stone to get the blades down to 1/16.  I got close, probably closer to 1/8.  I attempted to sharpen the blades but no go.  Smoke, grabs and tearing.  Not pretty.
I ensured I had the tool installed right.

I was using a palm router so it may work better with a bigger route, but the palm is too light when the blades are dull and it is dangerous to use like that.  The router was nearly slowing to a halt as well.

There is a review existing on these that says the same thing, so its not my lot, these are all like this.

My suggestion is to buy the $7.99 two pack to get the arbor, and then buy a real slot cutter online.

BTW when I tested the slot cutter before I ground it down, it worked pretty well, just not the right size at all.  Maybe useful for 3/8 t molding?

It sucks, I went the cheap route:
19.99 trim router from harbor freight
$25 t cutter junk (this would be the same if I bought good stuff online)
$20 in t molding.

Total:  $65 to get t molding.  Considering the wood, hardware and spray paint only cost ~$50 to build the whole cabinet.    if its worth it.

I do plan to take the cutters back, and also to take back the router once completed.  The router works but is very cheap.  the plastic used to set the bit depth can move, and the bit within the chuck can move too.  I used a wrent to tighten the  out of it!  It wont last very long, maybe 3 cabinets and it will be stripped or burnt out.

There is just no way to do this on the cheap, unless you know someone with the tools, and these slot cutters are rare to find.  Could buy a 2nd hand slot cutter on here but after shipping it will wash out to the new price. 

I am in checkmate by the t molding!

PS I am in the Omaha, Ne area if anyone can help me out!

[pbj]

I have this set, it works fine:

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-three-wing-slotting-cutter-router-bit-set-68871.html

You should have tried your cutters on a piece of scrap and seen if the slot was acceptable for t-molding before you started grinding on it with a dremel.

And are you sure you were actually pushing your router the right direction?

[screamingtiger]

Did you check the 1/6" bit?  I can tell from the pic its not the right size.  The disc is 1/16 and the the teeth have way too much profile.

I did check it on scrap, ALOT.  It was cutting way too big of slot for th 1/2" t molding.  Thats when I realized it was not the right size.  Not sure why you thought I didnt do that.
The grinding was done in attempt to correct it. 

What size of t molding do you install?  It may be the other bits are ok but the 1/16" is not right at all.

[screamingtiger]

A review I read before buying them that is on both links posted by me and the other guy:

"While the price for this set of slot cutters was very reasonable, they were essentially unusable due to the extreme variances between the stated cutting width and the actually width. Only one of the six in the set was within my acceptable tolerances (a generous plus or minus 0.005"). The others were all over the map, with one oversized by an incredible 34%. Someone at the factory needs to put a micrometer to these before they go out the door."

Its true.  I am sure for bigger T molding you can use the 1/16 bit for 3/32 to molding. 

[Vigo]

  I have used them without problems. Maybe my model is different, I don't know. However, the logic from your post kinds points to that it doesn't work well because you took a grinding stone to the blade.

BTW when I tested the slot cutter before I ground it down, it worked pretty well, just not the right size at all.

Sounds like you might have wore off the carbide or something. And a palm router is definitely not for this kind of work. I would expect that heavy work on a light duty router would burn it out as well.

As far as the blade width goes, I haven't noticed any big issue. Any spot that was too wide, I just slapped in some hot glue to get it to hold.

I do plan to take the cutters back, and also to take back the router once completed.

Are you really gonna return a blade you took a grinding stone to? Not trying to call you out, but you did pretty much void the warranty.



Edit: Yeah, the one I have is the one PBJ uses. That other one looks like it is specifically for router table use.

[HaRuMaN]

This is the one I use.  Worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004T7JK/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1412869438&sr=1&keywords=1+16+slot+cutter

[taylormadelv]

I just started using my set of slot cutters from HB. I use the 1.5 HP router http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-67119.html
I had no problems besides user error. When I corrected what I was doing wrong, I cut perfect slots for standard 3/4" T molding. Maybe you need a more powerful router?

[Unstupid]

I love CMT Orange router bits.  If your router can do 1/2" shank go with that over a 1/4" shank.  Personally I use this one: http://www.amazon.com/CMT-822-316-11B-Bearing-16-Inch-Cutting/dp/B001NIA3S2 on a Bosch 1617 Router: http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B00004TKHV  Like a hot knife through butter!

[screamingtiger]

Hmm Apparently I dont communicate well so let me put this in cliff notes form:
-Tested on scrap wood
-Using palm router
-I tried the 1/16 bit, it worked WELL, however it cuts the wrong size slot
-Logically, the palm router I have will work fine, IF the blades are sharp.
-The slot is too big for the 1/2" t molding, as well as the sample of 3/4 t molding. It may work for 3/4 but it is a bit lose-I put a caliper on the blades, they are not 1/16 but closer to 3/32
-Logically, a 3/32 blade cannot cut a 1/16 slot
-In an attempt to fix it, I ground down the blades, which made them dull.  I did say I was unable to sharpen them
-Logically, this means I admit I made them dull.  While it now cuts the right size slot, the blades are dull and it will not be safe to use.
-Logically, I am going to return them because they are defective.  While someone may argue my modification makes them unreturnable, they are defective none the less due to a size error, at no fault of mine.
-I simply attempted to fix them to save HF a return
-The review from someone else shows he/she had the same problem, adding credibility to my claims.

All of this was in my first 2 responses.
The responses:
-Hey idiot, why didnt you use scrap wood (my 2nd post says I did, I never said I ruined my cab)
-Hey idiot, It worked well for my 3/4 molding idiot (I stated it may work for this size, and I am using 1/2 so no comparision)
-Hey Idiot, Your palm router is too small idiot (I stated it worked well with the sharp blades, the blades are too big.  This means the palm WILL work with the right blade)
-Hey Idiot,You dulled them by grinding them down, thats why it wont work idiot (I stated that in my first post, and I had to grind in an attempt to get them the right size which made them dull since I could not sharpen them )
-Hey idiot, Mine worked well for my t molding but I had to glue the molding in spots because the slot was too wide (and I am the idiot?)
-Hey thief, you cant return those.  (Ok you got me there, but they are defective and useless either way so sue me).

There are some good responses in here which I appreciate, and I agree another cutter is the key.  I just hope my thread saves someone else the headache.  I am CERTAIN that you may get some that are the right size, but its a crap shoot becuase they were probably made the right size on accident.  You cant modify them very easy, so hoping someone learns from me that it just isnt worth it.  That was my point.

[Vigo]

I never meant to be insulting, sorry if I came off that way. There is something about woodworking threads that make me sound snotty. I don't quite have the Bob Vila Charm when making woodworking suggestions. I wouldn't take it too personally either, most all us us have had much bigger woodworking screw-ups chalked up on our records. When I mentioned that it was wide in certain spots on my cuts, that was operator error. Vigo took a second pass in some spots. 

I am actually planning on buying myself a new caliper this weekend, I can test the width on mine and let you know how it goes.

[pbj]

Hmm Apparently I dont communicate well so let me put this in cliff notes form:
-Tested on scrap wood
-Using palm router
-I tried the 1/16 bit, it worked WELL, however it cuts the wrong size slot
-Logically, the palm router I have will work fine, IF the blades are sharp.
-The slot is too big for the 1/2" t molding, as well as the sample of 3/4 t molding. It may work for 3/4 but it is a bit lose-I put a caliper on the blades, they are not 1/16 but closer to 3/32
-Logically, a 3/32 blade cannot cut a 1/16 slot
-In an attempt to fix it, I ground down the blades, which made them dull.  I did say I was unable to sharpen them
-Logically, this means I admit I made them dull.  While it now cuts the right size slot, the blades are dull and it will not be safe to use.
-Logically, I am going to return them because they are defective.  While someone may argue my modification makes them unreturnable, they are defective none the less due to a size error, at no fault of mine.
-I simply attempted to fix them to save HF a return
-The review from someone else shows he/she had the same problem, adding credibility to my claims.

All of this was in my first 2 responses.
The responses:
-Hey idiot, why didnt you use scrap wood (my 2nd post says I did, I never said I ruined my cab)
-Hey idiot, It worked well for my 3/4 molding idiot (I stated it may work for this size, and I am using 1/2 so no comparision)
-Hey Idiot, Your palm router is too small idiot (I stated it worked well with the sharp blades, the blades are too big.  This means the palm WILL work with the right blade)
-Hey Idiot,You dulled them by grinding them down, thats why it wont work idiot (I stated that in my first post, and I had to grind in an attempt to get them the right size which made them dull since I could not sharpen them )
-Hey idiot, Mine worked well for my t molding but I had to glue the molding in spots because the slot was too wide (and I am the idiot?)
-Hey thief, you cant return those.  (Ok you got me there, but they are defective and useless either way so sue me).

There are some good responses in here which I appreciate, and I agree another cutter is the key.  I just hope my thread saves someone else the headache.  I am CERTAIN that you may get some that are the right size, but its a crap shoot becuase they were probably made the right size on accident.  You cant modify them very easy, so hoping someone learns from me that it just isnt worth it.  That was my point.

Well, thanks for your feedback on that bit set from Harbor Freight.  Good luck on your next attempt.  The cheap set I linked previously has worked fine for me and I've done a few cabinets with it.

 

[Vigo]

I got a new caliper today and I tested my 1/16 and 3/32 cutters. measured the blade part, and not just the disc. Mine came out perfectly.

[screamingtiger]

Are you using the 1/4 shaft or the 1/2 shaft?  Mine were black not blue is why I ask.
Now I am going back to HF and going to open up a few packs and measure them.  Thanks!

[Vigo]

I believe it is the 1/4" shank, the model PBJ posted.

[screamingtiger]

So I went to harbor freight.  First thing is they have the 1/4" shank, which has black cutters at my local store.  The versions with 1/2" shank at my store are blue. 
I opened up a few boxes along with a new width guage and took some measurements.
I am suprised by the following:
The black ones were off big time.
The blue ones were closer, but it depended on the tooth I measured and where I measured it.  The slot will be as big as the biggest tooth.

Here are some pics.  I managed to find one that had 1 tooth at 1/16 but unfortunately the next tooth had about 1/13 (no pic of that).
It really depends on where you measure.

I amost bought the one in the picture because it was close, 1/15, 1/16 and 1/17 tips.  But I decided I dont need to make the same mistake twice.

Did you measure your near the tip, it seems they tend to get wider towards the tip.

Also, when you installed your tmolding, did you need a mallet?


BTW I did find a flaw.  I looked at my arbor and the bearing is frozen, this would cause it to want grab really bad.  So I may try my modified one again.  It will smoke but as long as it doesnt grab I can use it.
I think the bearing froze because the washer they gave me is too big and hangs over the inner race.  So when I cranked it down to keep it from slipping it locked up the bearing.

[yotsuya]

I bought my slot cutter 4 years ago from GroovyGameGear and have never looked back! 

[dkersten]

By the time you add up the gas to make the trips to HF, the time it took you to test, measure, grind, attempt to sharpen, return, and measure new ones, you could have just spend $25 online and had a bit that worked.  All too often I see people spend way too much time and material in an attempt to save a few pennies. 

I bought my first one from a local cabinet supply shop (4 blade freud bit with shank and bearing).  But I misread the size on the website I ordered the t-molding from (it showed the t-molding was 3/32, and to use a 1/16 slot, and I bought the 3/32 slot).  I ended up using 120 grit sandpaper cut into 1/2" strips and folded with the sandpaper side out, stuck in the slot, and the t-molding fit snugly and needed a mallet to install.  The bit cut just fine, my own failures cost me some time though.

So on the next project I ordered a 3 blade slot cutter off Amazon for about $25 (1/16").  I tested it on scrap, and the t-molding I had fit perfectly (needed a mallet to get it in, and it held really nicely).  But then I ended up changing my mind on the t-molding and went with a different type.  I had a hard time installing it, but otherwise it went OK.  The next project, however, I used the same t-molding and realized that it was thicker than the first kind I used.  I went back to the website and sure enough, the stuff I had been using required a 5/64" slot, not a 1/16".  Now you would think that maybe 1/64" is not a lot, but it was enough to split the MDF on the test piece.  Thankfully my router table has 1/128" accuracy and I was able to make 2 more passes to widen the slot enough to make installation a breeze.  The irony is my original 3/32" bit would have worked just fine.  While being short 1/64" is enough to make it very difficult to install the t-molding, being 1/64" too wide is not a problem, the "teeth" on the t-molding are big enough to compensate. 

I shared this for 3 reasons: 
First, even an experienced woodworker can make mistakes.  You came here to share your mishaps with a tool, but just about everyone here has had a mishap with this kind of tool, and many people responded with sound advice.  There are dozens of threads here where the poster had the bit installed backwards and had nearly identical results as you had with your dull blade.  If you can't stand people commenting on your situation, you will have a tough time when you share your other work here and are judged for it.
Second, just because your t-molding isn't the same width as what other's have used, it doesn't mean that it doesn't take a different slot.  You obviously need a 1/16" slot just like MOST 3/4" t-moldings use, and others have used the set from the same place as you bought yours and had good luck.  It isn't a big leap in logic to assume that maybe you made a mistake somewhere.  In my experience, it is usually the user who fails, not the tool, so when I read your post I also assumed you made a mistake.
Third, despite my own mistakes, buying a quality tool meant that I didn't have to waste hours of my time measuring and trying to hone down a cheap tool to make it work.  A good tool will last a lifetime and can be passed down to a new generation.  And many of my best tools are well over 40 years old (even the power tools).  Good tools are never a bad investment, but cheap tools will always cost you more in the end.  Nobody said that this is a cheap hobby to be in.

Good luck with your project, I hope things from here out go better for you.

[screamingtiger]

Thanks for all the feedback. Let me tell you why I a getting so upset about this.  I read similar posts to mine on other forums about these darn slot cutters from HF.  Seems many have issues with them.  But then here comes a couple people totally negating the thread, stating it is user error etc etc and how they use them with NO problems.  That is the reason I ended up buying them, because of people like you.  You tell me I am doing it wrong and you have had great success.

First, some 3/4 molding does take a 1/16, some takes a 3/32. There is no doubt if yours uses 3/32 the 1/16 (or 1/14-1/17 bit that is) bit will work fine.  I want other people to see that user error is not an issue.  I went to HF and opened them up in the package, and showed how far off they all are.

I am sure some people get one of the sets that are close to the needed measuerments, but they need to understand its a crap shoot.

Once again, despite all the extra information I have given, someone will end up reading this thread, and still buying that crappy set because of a few who seem to negate what I am saying.

One thing to keep in mind, from my experience on ALL boards across multiple topics:  There are people who will make claims and give advice who have 0 experience with the top at hand.  For example, it would not suprise me if one of the 3 in this thread negating my information, has never even built an arcade cabinet.   

But regardless, its clear these are hit and miss so anyone reading this:  Measure the set at HF before you buy them.  I am sure you can find one that will work but you may have to measure a few sets!

[HaRuMaN]

Or just pony up the extra money and get a known good one.   

[Malenko]

Or just pony up the extra money and get a known good one.   

I see both sides of it.  I usually buy harbor freight stuff for "one off" projects or if I need a cheap tool and longevity isnt a factor (like a socket extension). I believe the intent of the post was to stress the exact point Haruman is making above, HF's slot cutters aren't worth the lower price, despite some people getting good slot cutters. So spend the cheddar on some good ones.

I thank you for taking the time to measure everything, and showing its a dice roll when it comes to QA. 

[pbj]

He bought the wrong kind of bit for an inadequate tool.  That's my take away from this.

 

I do have to laugh at the absurdity of breaking open packages to take your caliper to them.  Perhaps a better measure would have been to take a piece of your t-molding in?  You can foam at the mouth all day long about what the numbers say, but if your bit is off or your t-molding is off it doesn't really matter.

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20.  Yeah, the expense of T-molding and its installation is ridiculous but suck it up.

 

[dkersten]

And you seem to have missed my point too:  For all the effort put into this, you could have bought a better tool and been money ahead by now.  I appreciate your warning here, and for those who think that it actually saves money to buy the cheapest version of a precision tool that exists, you might save someone some money.  The lesson learned here shouldn't be that Harbor Freight slot cutters are not precise, it should be that whenever you buy a tool that needs to be precise, the cheapest one is probably the one that will end up costing you the most. 

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20 waste $30 worth of time, gas, and frustration trying to save $15.

I corrected PBJ's quote.

[screamingtiger]

He bought the wrong kind of bit for an inadequate tool.  That's my take away from this.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, I could have an industrial strength CNC router and it would still not cut the right size slot.  Unfortunately, going to the level I did was necessary to prove what I am saying.  However as we know despite hard evidence some will believe what they want anyways.

To be more exact, buyings these DID NOT save me money, it costs more!  I can get a good arbor and bit for ~$20 with shipping from amazon, and it has good reviews.  I paid ~$25 with tax.  The reason I went that route is becuase I like to support local and wanted to get this done that weekend.  Jokes on me!!  2 weeks later I am not done, and could of had one on hand by now.

Dkertsen:  That is exactly my point in the first place.  I dont know why its so hard to understand?

On a similar note, I bought a few things from HF:
Drill bits that dont drill wood, they burn through it with lots of smoke
A pencil torch that doesnt burn
A heat gun that is hot enough make wood smoke
The heat shrink is good.
My 3/8 socket doesnt fit a 3/8 nut
And of course my slot cutters.

Seems to be a common characteristic with the tools and burning wood... Wierd.

I did get a trailer there though.  A few small issues with locking nuts not locking and I had to cut a lug nut off as they cross threaded it on the installation.  The hubs come attached to the rims already in the box.  Good thing I checked it out before getting a flat.

I have a few thousand miles on it without a single issue.  Go figure!

Here is a pic of it in the early stages before I straightened out the support beams and added front and rear barn doors.

[yotsuya]

I think it's just kind of known around here that if you buy anything from Harbor Freight, it's a crapshoot. 

[Sarver Systems]

This thread needs more pics of the wife.

[Sarver Systems]

I've bought many tools from HF.

Its a well known fact to not buy anything with a cord on it at HF.

However, I did pick up a belt/disc sander in the scratch/dent section for less than 1/2 of a new one. It works perfectly fine.

I also bought an airbrush and airbrush compressor. No problems with it either.

All of my hand tools are stull running strong, except for the set of pliers. The pliers are fine, but the cutters couldn't cut through a wet paper bag.

[dkersten]

I bought a spring compressor, and while it is cheaply made, for the 3 times I ended up using it, it worked.  I was worried it would break and hurt me though, and if I was ever going to possibly use it more than a few times in my life, I would never have bought something that cheap.  I also bought some metric ball-hex sockets that I needed once, and they seem to actually be OK.  And I have a jack and some stands that I got from there, and while the jack couldn't come close to the weight it was rated at, it worked, and the stands are just as good as stands from anywhere else.  But I spent enough years working in a shop to know that cheap tools are cheap for a reason, and there is a good reason to pay for quality tools, particularly when you use them regularly. 

Router bits should be reusable, and cheap ones are pretty much shot after a couple uses, so I will never spend a penny on one.  And I agree 100% that anything with a cord from HF is worthless.  Power tools are the things you end up using over and over in life, and the cheap ones only aggravate you, cost you more money in the end, and potentially end up harming you. 

[Sarver Systems]

Oh, thats right. I bought a low-profile floor jack from them. THat thing is awesome.

I actually moved an empty, fully-built 10X12 wooden shed about 30ft across my yard with it.

[Unstupid]

The quality to the blade is very important.  You can measure the size of the cutting blade all you want. But if they are not aligned perfectly flat, or if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the shank, there blades will have some wobble between each cutting blade.  It will be impossible to cut a 1/16" slot.  Be careful with the bits on and off your router too.  Dropping them or resting the router on them can cause bending as well.  One thing I learned working with an industrial cnc router... At 25,000 rpm, you better make sure your bits are perfect!

[Vigo]

The harbor freight near me has displays of all their power tools. I would think that 15 seconds of holding the tool, and you should be able to tell if it is quality or not. Some is crap, but some if perfect for tools you don't routinely use. I have never been screwed by a harbor freight product, and I have bough plenty. I have also been very selective, and purchased better brand tools when it is a tool that matters to me. I bought a 5 speed drill press for $40 bucks from them. The thing has been a champ. Fell off the back of the moving truck from 8 feet up and it still drills perfectly. I also have an air compressor from them that has been a perfect mid-grade compressor. Their trailer products are much better than stuff from other hardware stores, and they have a steady flow of free flashlights, work gloves, tarps and screwdrivers that I have the luxury of not having to baby all my tools and supplies. They sell nice little box kits of random fasteners, springs, hooks, rivets, grommets, etc, that saves me a ton of time from looking for an exact part from the hardware store.

About the worst power tool I bought from HF is a belt sander, and it was still a good decision. The tool kept needing adjustment to keep the belt centered, so I was needlessly fiddling with it.  It was $15 on sale, but I only use a belt sander about once or twice a year. The cheapest model at Home depot is probably gonna be hovering around 50-60 bucks. If my belt sander breaks, who cares? If the motor at least still works, I will gut it and build something else out of it, like a spindle sander. Replacement? I could buy 3 more and still not hit the amount I would spend elsewhere. And is a $50 home depot sander gonna really last that much longer anyway?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that you just gotta be selective and smart about what you buy. People will waste a ton of money on trying to get the best stuff possibly no matter what they buy. Others only buy the cheapest and end up with an aggravating experience doing any shop work. A good balance and you can have a fully loaded shop for very low cost.

[pbj]

Now, now, vigo, let the nice men have their, "EVERYTHING at Harbor Freight SUCKS!!! except for this tool... and that tool... and that one... and this one...." conversation.

 

90% of it is the same crap from the other stores with a different sticker slapped on it.  The place regularly has a line out the door. 

 

[knave]

I know enough to be careful (and selective) at HF...but other than one item, I've never been disappointed. That's one out of 100s.
I pretty much agree with the above post that you can tell some about an items general quality by putting your hands on it. If you only need it once it still might be worth it.

I tend to take care of my tools even the crappy cheap ones...they last me a long time.

[dkersten]

I will agree that when it comes to a hand tool that you will only need a few times in your life, cheap quality is seldom a factor.

But if you think that most of what HF sells is just re-stickered quality products from reputable manufacturers, you are mistaken.  Most of what HF sells is Chinese junk that might be a cheap knockoff of a quality tool but with incredibly poor standards.  "Harbor Freight" literally means it came in from over seas, and almost every item in their store is an off brand import from China.  When you buy from them, you aren't supporting anyone but the Chinese, and there is no incentive for them to have quality control on any product they make. 

I firmly believe that, to a very great extent, you get what you pay for.  That is more true as you go down the scale than up.  Trust me here, if the junk tools they sell were so good, they would be sitting on the shelf next to the premium stuff at the big box stores commanding the same premiums, and people would be paying it because of the good reputation that the quality would warrant.   

I have seen HF electric tools out of the box light on fire, spark and smoke, have bushings so far out of spec that the tool literally shakes itself apart, and most often, fail after only a few uses.  But it isn't all that difficult to cast some steel into the shape of a wrench and have a workable tool. 

I can't say that everything they sell is junk, and I love harbor freight when it comes to items I need that don't need to last past one or two uses.  And they sell a lot of that sort of thing.  As stated, much of the "hardware" items are great deals.  And furthermore, they do sell a few items that are of decent quality.  But look closely at their prices.. those higher quality items don't go on sale every week, and they compare to the "store brand" products that you get at big box stores.

I know that many of the "good" name brands are nothing like they used to be, and sometimes are overpriced just because of the brand.  But there is a great equalizer out there called the internet.  You dust off your google-fu and do some searching, and I guarantee you that if a quality tool is overpriced by anyone, there will be someone on the internet selling it for a more reasonable price.  There is less markup than you think when it comes to some brands.  Granted, the manufacturer might mark it up a bit, but usually it is to cover better warranties or because it was manufactured in the U.S. where labor is more expensive. 

I am not a tool snob, I just have used tools enough (as a homeowner, as a hobbyist, and as a professional) to have seen how easily a poorly made tool can fail, or worse, how it can ruin what you are working on.  A cheap router bit will burn your wood to the point where you have to start over, and when you are working with a hardwood or exotic that costs you $10-$60 per board foot, that gets expensive in a hurry.  If you had to ask me one reason I would buy a $200 router over a $50 router, and I could only answer with one thing, it would be because I am not going to take the chance of having a less than perfect result and lose hundreds of dollars in material because I was too cheap to buy a good tool. 

We work with MDF or plywood in this hobby, and most often a mistake can either be corrected with some bondo or $5 in replacement wood, but many woodworking projects I have used my tools for have had far more in just the cost of the wood than the cost of the tools to work the wood.  I bought my first quality router about 17 years ago, and I would put money on it that if I had bought a cheap piece of junk that barely worked, I wouldn't have ended up wanting to make more things with it or ended up buying more tools to make even more cool stuff.  I would have been turned off by the quality and been discouraged from trying new things.  So my advice when it comes to routers or router bits is don't buy cheap, you will always regret it. 

[Sarver Systems]

I'll leave you with this...

"A man is only as good as his tools"

[jennifer]

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20.  Yeah, the expense of T-molding and its installation is ridiculous but suck it up.

 

    Am I hearing this right?

[PL1]

I'll leave you with this...

"A man is only as good as his tools"

Don't forget, "It’s the poor craftsman who blames his tools."

A good woodworker knows to select the tools needed to produce the desired results and avoid the tools that won't.

Each part of the "woodworking skill + attention to detail + power tool + bit" equation adds to the cumulative error that limits the quality of the final result.

Threads like this help people avoid tools/bits that will increase error to the point where good results are far more difficult (or impossible) to achieve.   


Scott

[Vigo]

But if you think that most of what HF sells is just re-stickered quality products from reputable manufacturers, you are mistaken.  Most of what HF sells is Chinese junk that might be a cheap knockoff of a quality tool but with incredibly poor standards.  "Harbor Freight" literally means it came in from over seas, and almost every item in their store is an off brand import from China.  When you buy from them, you aren't supporting anyone but the Chinese, and there is no incentive for them to have quality control on any product they make. 

Dave, you are one smart dude, so I doubt  you need a reality check, but no matter where you shop, about everything but the most expensive of brands is gonna be manufactured in China. Yeah, there is HF stuff made so badly, I wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole, but to say you are avoiding the Chinese manufacturing machine by shopping elsewhere is not even remotely true.

Oh, and grab a snickers, because  even though you claim not to be a tool snob, complaining about inferior tools ruining you exotic woods in the same paragraph does sound a bit like a diva.

[dkersten]

lol, I know that almost everything is made in China.. but there are still quality companies that do a lot of quality control and even the majority of assembly in the U.S. And then there are the Chinese knockoffs.  You can take anything and fly to china and with practically zero experience and a couple weeks of legwork and a few dollars for a translator to help, end up with a deal to manufacture something that looks just like it for a fraction of the cost of the real thing.  Trust me, it is easy to do and the product is NOTHING like the real thing, but some people will assume that the top end brands are overpriced because you are paying for the brand.  That is rarely true with power tools.

I mentioned that I am not a tool snob because I knew I was coming across that way.  I usually work in woods like Oak, Cherry, or Maple, far from exotic but pretty damn expensive nevertheless.  I estimate that in the last 25 years I have spent somewhere around $25,000 on tools, and a couple thousand dollars of that has been on the kind of stuff Harbor Freight sells.  When a tool works for its intended purpose, I am satisfied, even if the brand is less than desirable.  When I don't know any better, I go for brands I trust.  When I do my research, I usually end up in the same place.  But every so often I find that the "off brand" has the superior product, even when price is not a factor.  And sometimes I just don't care, I want something cheap that will do the job, even if I have to throw it away when I am done.  I have dozens of clamps that I bought from an importer, and once I cleaned off all the Cosmoline, they work just fine.

I have power tools from Grizzly, Delta, Biesemeyer, Porter Cable, Bosche, Freud, Skil, Makita, Craftsman, Hitachi, Jet, Dewalt, and Performax.  And I also have some off brand tools like a wet tile saw that cost me maybe $50 and a black and decker 1/2" drill.  And the thing is, I don't have the "snob" stuff like General, Powermatic, or Laguna.  No self-respecting tool "snob" would have a Grizzly or Craftsman power tool in their shop, they are the bottom end of the midrange tools, lol. 

Bottom line is that if Harbor Freight made a table saw as good as Delta, Jet, or Powermatic can make one, and sold it for half the price, I would buy it.  But the sad fact is that when anything from HF is put up against a name brand (or even a box store brand), it fails to be comparable in every possible way.

One more note:  While I agree that a true craftsman can't blame his tools for a poor job, I also agree that a craftsman is only as good as his tools, which leads me to believe that there is a distinct line between a tool that will fail to do the job, and a tool that is adequate.  Once you cross that line, you can't improve on the job the craftsman can do, but you might cut down on the amount of time it takes the craftsman to do the work.  The craftsman is the one who can try out a tool and decide if it is adequate to do what he intends.  But my whole point has been that if you start at the very bottom, you will waste a lot of money trying to find an adequate tool.  The OP learned that the hard way. 

[Vigo]

Not to discredit the number of well made brands out there, but one thing I am certain of is there is far less domestic quality control than you would think on most power tools. My wife was a buyer for Menards Corporate. She dealt with the companies when there were product issues. Some of these companies were so out of the loop on their own products, that she was in direct communication with the manufacturer in China to work out product issues instead. These are smart manufacturers, Most of the time, the US company just tells them what they want, and the Chinese manufacturers design these products from the ground up. Even if they are assembled in the US. My wife's uncle owns one of the larges textile manufacturing companies in all of China. Makes products for most name brand apparel companies, Polo, Hollister, Abercrombie, AE, Banana Republic, etc. the list goes on. They have their own team of designers and pretty much dictate everything that these companies hang on their racks. They decide what we consider fashionable and what will be sold, not American or European fashion designers. They run the whole show. The amount of stuff that is even of our own design is plummeting, and most people don't even realize it. The quality difference you see is in tools simply a business decision, and not at all that these companies are building crap because they don't know how to do any better.

[pbj]

Heh, all I know is when I bought my Z64, it was out of the back of a warehouse labelled "Ling's Elegant Textile Designs" and it was full of small Asian women hunched over sewing machines. 

In Dallas of all places.

[Vigo]

Hey, small Asian women hunched over sewing machines have kept the world from going naked. Kind like how the world would probably go cookieless without the keebler elves. My eyes thank Ling and her elegant textile designs.

[kahlid74]

I'm a bit late to this party and much of what I would say has already been said, so I'll just add the part where we talk about buying cheap bits from a supplier who is known to have quality issues and we'll then spin them at 10,000 rpm and expect no issues.

I don't shop harbor freight at all, but I do use their 25% off coupon to get really good deals on stuff from HD and Lowes.  Whiteside or Freud are usually what I go with.  More money but for the additional quality I'm in favor of it.

[screamingtiger]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

I'm a bit late to this party and much of what I would say has already been said, so I'll just add the part where we talk about buying cheap bits from a supplier who is known to have quality issues and we'll then spin them at 10,000 rpm and expect no issues.

I don't shop harbor freight at all, but I do use their 25% off coupon to get really good deals on stuff from HD and Lowes.  Whiteside or Freud are usually what I go with.  More money but for the additional quality I'm in favor of it.

[screamingtiger]

Just a quick update.  I went through a couple more grinding stones and got that "1/16" bit to work!  Part of the issue is the bearing seized up, so I got that fixed and it worked well.  However I did set off the smoke alarms for quite awhile.  I didnt realize how much smoke there was until I turned off the router and heard the alarms   

Note:  The blade was not backwards, it was dull from me grinding on it.

The slot is pretty good, it is not perfectly centered in all spots.  With the small router and dull blade it was a bit of a challenge towards the ends of the pieces where the router had less support.
I also did not use the full depth, and this helped a lot as well.  It was cutting way too deep with the default bearing.  I cuth half the depth which is still plenty for the tmolding sample I have.

I sincerely believe witha sharp bit the palm router is more than suffice, but given its the first time I ever used one I think it turned out ok.  I will post pics in my original thread.

Time to order t molding!

[Vigo]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

I've tried before. Mine don't. Probably a total YMMV situation. I've tried multiple times at both near me, and the coupon needed to be for a product offered that is identical model to what they offer. It also needed to be a store that is within a (I think) a 25 mile radius. And they wanted my to prove via flyer the product is identical. I think it was HD that even had a binder with all the flyers ready to check if what I brought in was legit.

Maybe they have more serious abuse of those policies around my neck of the woods, but I never had any luck getting anything from HF matched to them. Give it a try though, maybe it was just I have been going about it all wrong. 

Just a quick update.  I went through a couple more grinding stones and got that "1/16" bit to work!

Awesome! Glad you are done with that dose of aggravation. 

[spoot]

HD and  lowes will honor those coupons??   

Depends on the cashier and/or manager at the time.

[ChadTower]

I think it's just kind of known around here that if you buy anything from Harbor Freight, it's a crapshoot. 

This.

Pretty much anything from HF is 50% failure rate right out of the box and another 25% within 5 uses.

[pbj]

Really makes me wonder what the hell you guys do to your tools.

[ChadTower]

I tried to use their stuff.  Bought an air compressor there... DOA.  Returned for another... DOA.  Returned for a third and that one actually popped a weld the first time it came up to pressure.  Shot a piece of metal across the room.  There wasn't a fourth.

Can't tell you how many hand tools like crimpers or pliers I tried from them that would just snap off at the pivot or the handle would break.  I tried a bunch of their air hose quick fittings and they all leaked so badly I thought I was using them wrong.  They were just poor fitting.

[yotsuya]

I only buy stuff like clamps from there. Most I've ever spent was $20 out the door.

[knave]

Makes me think we need a separate thread of things that are worth getting at HF

Yotsuya says clamps

I only go with coupons. HF is 4 miles from me and on my way to the GYM.

I get or use:
- Tarps
- Bungee cords
- Work gloves
- Shrink tubing
- Magnetic parts holders
- Screw drivers
- Pliers/channel locks
- hammers
- Large adjustable wrenches
- Wire strippers
- Sanding blocks
- Power strips
- Extension cord replacement ends
- Cordless power tool replacement batteries (I take these apart and use them for my good tools)
- A toolbox (works great)
- casters
- funnels
- drill bits
- coolant filter wrench

It's not that the items would be too expensive at HD or Lowes, but that its fun get a deal and I get of cheap on a few select tools and items I don't use often. These items are pretty much the same anywhere.

Sometimes I go and don't find anything I need on sale.

and I have found crap.
I bought the Cheap rotary tool and it is all crap. Not worth the cardboard it was packaged in...but that's my only disappointment.
Some cheap tools may break but usually worth it for one-of projects...and the non durable tools wear out.
I will agree that their air fittings can leak but work well enough so far.

[Slippyblade]

I had a laminate trim router from there that I abused the hell out of for about three years, totally worth it.  I also have a lot of normal hand tools from there that are good.

E-clip/Ring pliers
Ratchet crimper (ps - they used to sell one with punched steel plate jaws, that one sucked.  They now sell one with die cast jaws.  Those ones are good.)

I use a LOT of the freebie coupons as well.

[screamingtiger]

To add insult to injury, I ordered my to molding today from t-molding.com
I only needed 20 feet but I wanted 21 for some extra.  While the min order is 20 feet, they actually only sell in 20 foot increments.
Unfortunately I need 1/2" t-molding so my options for ordering are few.

$26 later I have it ordered.  $12 shipping is kinda high. 

So lets take inventory again:

Palm Router:  $20
HF Slot Cutters: $20
T Molding:  $26

Total:  $66!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep in mind this doesnt include my time and frusteration.  However I traded that for cheap stuff.  If done the right way it would of been over $100.

It is VERY CLEAR to me this t-molding is a niche with the slot cutters and probably mostly used by arcade builders.  They are seriously gouging us on the prices for this crap.

The t molding tools and install cost about as much as my graphics will.   


Ok no need to tear my post apart, I am just complaining!!  Get it installed, move on!

[pbj]

20 foot increments from t-molding.com is one of the longest running scams in this hobby.  I feel your pain.

 

[yotsuya]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

[screamingtiger]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

I tried it, almost everything out of stock!

[Sarver Systems]

I just bought a bench grinder/buffer from HF.

It came with 2 buff wheels, but I swapped one out for a wire wheel.

I havent used it yet, but I did get it set up and turned it on.

Seems pretty decent so far.

[yotsuya]

Let's put it this way - I wouldn't buy anything from Harbor Freight that has the potential to maim or kill me.

[Vigo]

I just bought a bench grinder/buffer from HF.

It came with 2 buff wheels, but I swapped one out for a wire wheel.

I havent used it yet, but I did get it set up and turned it on.

Seems pretty decent so far.

Been extremely pleased with my HF grinder. Stand I bought was solid too. Grinder runs smooth - It will keep spinning for 5-10 minutes after I power down.

[Sarver Systems]

Oh, a stand for it? I didn't see that!

[pbj]

My grinder is a motor out of a dishwasher with a grinding wheel shoved on it.  Probably at least 30 years old.

 

[Vigo]

Oh, a stand for it? I didn't see that!

This is the one I have:

http://www.harborfreight.com/universal-bench-grinder-stand-3184.html

[EvilNuff]

Anything that is just a tool by weight is going to be a bargain there.  Hammers, wrenches, etc.  Anything that.  Also anything that does not have the potential to break in a dangerous manner.  So for example a $20 cordless drill is a good buy if you consider it disposable for a year or so's use.  Paint brushes, a post hole digger, shovels, etc.

[Vigo]

My grinder is a motor out of a dishwasher with a grinding wheel shoved on it.  Probably at least 30 years old.

 

Absolutely a valid tool.  30-40 years ago, most home shops were filled with home built power tools. No idea how we got so uppity about tools that we brush off anything without a price tag that you have to grab your ankles and bend over to take it. I'm looking at getting a spindle sander right now. Used my fathers homemade one as a kid, and it was by far one of the most useful sanders I ever used. Looking at what is on the market, it is hard to find anything "quality name brand" that is not gonna rape me out of $300-$1000. Insane for spinning sandpaper on a stick.

[dkersten]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

I will amend the idea that any "heavy" tools (hammers, wrenches, etc) are just fine with the caveat that they are just for "handyman" use.  A poorly made hammer will break, bend, and mushroom out of shape (not to mention end up not being very ergonomic and potentially injure the user).  A cheap open end wrench will break, bend, and round out even under the most general use.  But in either case if you are using it a few times a year, it will likely last.  Eventually having to replace broken and bent screwdrivers over the years will add up to the cost of one good one that would last a lifetime of everyday use.

Cheap tools have their uses.  Plus, many of the HF tools I have bought over the years were bought for a purpose other than what the tool was designed for, strictly because it was cheap enough to modify even if it ruined it as the original tool.  I wouldn't modify a $70 wrench from Snap-On, but a $3 wrench is an entirely different story.

[screamingtiger]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

Agreed, but with a little practice it can produce a great result very cheap.  The key is having a good bit though.    No need for a $70 router for single use.  I have not found anywhere including HD or lowes that will rent a router.  The mainly do big tools in my area.  I did it cheap, and if I am off its not hard to fix, just fill the slot using spackle and superglue, then reslot it.

[yotsuya]

Part of the reason you don't use a palm router to do slot cutting is because the base is too small to keep it perfectly flat on the wood, and hence the slot will vary both in thickness and in being off center as you rock it back and forth inadvertently.  A full sized router with a 7-9" base will be far easier to control and get good results out of.  Even if the motor can keep up the RPMs (and hence cut smoother and with less stress on the bit), it just isn't ideal.  But if you are satisfied, that is all that matters.

Agreed, but with a little practice it can produce a great result very cheap.  The key is having a good bit though.    No need for a $70 router for single use.  I have not found anywhere including HD or lowes that will rent a router.  The mainly do big tools in my area.  I did it cheap, and if I am off its not hard to fix, just fill the slot using spackle and superglue, then reslot it.

I found that if you buy a $70 to cut t-molding, you'll find many other good uses for it in time to justify the cost. Hell, I'm going to use it today after work to trim down a door  in an area where I just laid down some new tile...

[Saneless]

That's why I always buy my t-molding from gamemolding.com.

That's where I got mine.  I think I got 50 feet for 15 bucks.  Leather textured even

The 20-foot-only increments is the reason I didn't even bother with t-molding because I didn't want to be forced to buy a bunch I wouldn't use.

At 50 feet I chose to buy a bunch I won't use.

[pbj]

Last time I bought t-molding from t-molding.com, it was cheaper to get 100 feet from them via Amazon than 40 feet through their website. 

Somewhere in my attic of horrors is ~70 feet of t-molding.

[dkersten]

I bought 30 feet from twisted quarter and it came in 5 pieces all different lengths.. Thankfully between what I already had on hand and what showed up, I ended up with two pieces just over the ~11 feet I needed for the project.

I found that if you buy a $70 to cut t-molding, you'll find many other good uses for it in time to justify the cost. Hell, I'm going to use it today after work to trim down a door  in an area where I just laid down some new tile...

This is exactly my point.. Unless you are 80 years old and on a fixed income with no possible use for a tool after you use it once, chances are you will find a use for it later in life, likely multiple times.  I justified my first router purchase with the cost of having a counter top made for a bathroom renovation.  The countertop would have cost me just over $200 to have made, the parts to make one myself cost around $50 and the router was $150.  I probably have close to 80 hours of run time on that router 15 years later.. AND learning to use it has saved or earned me thousands of dollars since.  A $30 HF palm router might have done the one job back then, but it would have failed 10 times over since then.  But then if I went and purchased a $300 torque wrench instead of the $20 one I bought for the 3 jobs I have used it for, it probably wouldn't be justified.  So to each their own.. 

(Then again, if I HAD a $300 torque wrench, I bet I would end up using it more often, if nothing else than to lend it to a friend when they are in need)

[Vigo]

This is exactly my point.. Unless you are 80 years old and on a fixed income with no possible use for a tool after you use it once, chances are you will find a use for it later in life, likely multiple times.

The fatal flaw with this kind of "40 year" thinking is that you are assuming that is the exact type of tool you will need down the road, or that even a name brand tool will last indefinitely. Unless you can nonchalantly throw kaneda cash at every tool you want, you are gonna end up wasting more money for "brand" than you would waste starting out with a cheaper tool.

Buying cheaper tools first is not a new phenomena. It has always been the standard to do so. Tools would be classified as "Apprentice tools", "Journeyman tools" and "Master tools". My gut tells me that it just never translated well to power tools because until recently, power tools have all been expensive to manufacture.

For instance, I needed a drill press. I bought a press well suited for me from HF for $40. I use it all the time, and have been very impressed with how useful a drill press is for my needs. Now, I could have spend $300 for a "quality" equivalent, but the honest truth is when my drill press kicks the bucket, I plan on getting a well thought out model, but with the foresight of seeing exactly what the features important to me are. Things like plunge depth, spindle to table distance or radial arm adjustment were simply not on my radar when I made my purchase, and you can easily spend $500 on a press, but find out it is missing out on very critical features.

Likewise, you might think your tool is all that and a bag of chips right now, but find it is a dinosaur a decade down the road. Until recently, people were not buying compound sliding miter saws. Now, it is pretty much a must have feature. People are dumping $700 miter saws they bought 10-15 years ago because they compounds were never accurate enough to be feasible until recently. I'm still happy with my Hitachi I bought out of college, but it is compound or bust for me now. How about air compressor technology? Not too many years ago, a good air compressor meant you had a giant 40 gallon tank taking up the corner of your garage or shop. Hard to move and very expensive. Compressors and tools have improved so dramatically that you can easily keep a portable compressor wherever you go, roof, Car on the street, crawlspace, you name it. Don't let me even get started on why you shouldn't dive in head first on battery powered tools.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a cheaper tool until you become adept with it, know your exact needs and make a well thought out decision to upgrade when you have the experience and finesse.

[dkersten]

I tend to agree that when it comes to specialized tools, there are a variety of ways to approach purchasing.  But a router, in my opinion, is one of the "staple" tools for any hobbyist, craftsman, or carpenter who will work with wood in their lifetime.  Along with a router, a power drill and a circular saw are pretty much all the power tools that are truly required to do just about anything.  It is one of the few tools I would never consider buying cheap. 

PLUS, a router spins at 10-30 THOUSAND RPM!  That is a tremendous amount of rotational energy, even with a small bit, and I for one would never stand near (let alone hold) a tool that was made with the lowest possible quality materials, labor, and quality control standards that contained that much potential energy.  I value my fingers and skin way too much for that.  But that is my opinion, other's may see things differently. (I have not personally lost anything larger than a chunk of flesh from a power tool but I have witnessed tool failures causing great bodily harm in my life).

As for your example with the drill, I understand, and I can't say that you went the wrong direction with that.  However, quality tools hold their value more than just about anything else you can purchase (that you would use, there are plenty of things you can buy and never use that will hold value).  My table saw, for example, is just a simple Delta contractor saw (at least the base is, I have modified the rest to be much more).  About 25 years ago it cost around $300 to buy brand new.  I purchased it 13 years ago for ... $300.  Today, I could put it back to its stock form and sell it for $300+ quite easily.  Aside from cordless tools which have become so common (and have batteries that degrade over time and use), any decent power tool will have a fairly static value from the day you buy it.  You could argue that with inflation I have lost value in those tools, but the fact is if I hadn't bought those tools, that money would have ended up being spent elsewhere, and likely on something that is worth far less today.  You could also reasonably argue that buying a tool brand new is like buying a car brand new, and the moment you take it home it loses a big part of it's value.  This is true, but it is fairly minimal, and also a good reason to buy used to begin with. 

While newer tools tend to be "technologically superior", they also tend to be built far "leaner" (which translates to not lasting as long) and people will often pay for the older gear for that very reason.  I would kill to have back some of the older tools I traded off for newer "upgrades" that turned out to not be nearly the same quality as the older items.  I suppose that is one reason to buy the cheapest stuff you can find the first time around... when you go to upgrade, no matter how far it falls short of what you thought it would do for you, it will still always be superior to what you had, lol. 

[Vigo]

I absolutely agree with you about the staple tools. Maybe a little on the edge about counting power drills, because there are a variety in that family to get to cover your bases, hammering drill, battery driver drill, impact driver, etc.

I agree about the router, though. I wouldn't touch a HF router, or wish it on my enemy. As a "staple" tool, a good router is a smart one to invest in. Same time, I don't think everyone absolutely needs the $300 Porter cable or bosch routers. Both are darn good tools, and easily money wells spent. A ~$100 skil or ryobi is gonna be safe and reliable for quite a few years. Little things like depth adjustment knobs won't be as solid, and I doubt they would survive a drop so well, but they will cut wood just the same. I'm pretty sure a good routers are gonna age well, no matter what lasers or doodats they try to add to them, and one of the very few tools that you can still get in a solid metal encasement.

[RandyT]

It's all been said, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.  If you don't have any problems playing the lottery, then you shouldn't worry too much about Harbor Freight.  They do have some good tools there, at very reasonable prices.   I have several drill presses from there which are 10+ years old and used daily.  The only problem I have had with them is the plastic grips break off over time.  They look better with reject economy ball tops on them anyway, and they fit perfect  .

General rule of thumb is not to buy anything which could kill you or which could destroy expensive or hard to replace materials, if it doesn't work right.  Learned that lesson the hard way on my newly poured epoxy topped shuffleboard restoration.  Didn't have a good flush trim bit for the epoxy, so I pulled one out of the router bit set from HF.  Big mistake.  Half way through trimming the epoxy, the bearing disintegrates, leading to gouges in both the top, and the edge of the board.  I could have cried.  Required a re-pour ($$$) and a few hours with wood filler and sandpaper to repair.

The safest bet is not to buy the least expensive version of anything they sell, and don't try to push the tools beyond what you'd expect a tool of that price to be able to handle.   If you buy a cheap drill, use it as a drill, and don't try to put a 3 1/2" hole saw on it to go through a 16" exterior wall (ask me how I know).  If you see a wrench set that costs half that of a similar set sitting next to it, don't expect it to be as good.  It's not.  These sound like obvious things, but it's hard not to get caught up in "thrift" mode and ignore the obvious.  You really do get what you pay for.

I've shopped there for years, and have amassed a tool collection which covers just about everything I'll want to do, works well, and cost but a fraction of purchasing elsewhere.  Drill presses, industrial sanders, huge air compressor, dust collector, bandsaws, both vertical and horizontal, powder coat oven, sandblaster cabinet, welder and smaller tools too numerous to list.  You just have to know what to buy, and sometimes play the "lottery", with the expectation of buying another, or repairing it if it breaks (it's usually cheap enough to do several times before approaching "DeWalt" prices).  But I will say that my routers are Milwaukee and Porter Cable....I'm not crazy

[Vigo]

That is pure awesome you use ball tops on your drill press handles. 

[screamingtiger]

I got my t molding installed.  It kinda pissed me off that they sent two rolls of 20 feet.  I ordered 40 feet so they should of just sent a roll of 40.
This tells me this stuff is precut and that is why they sell it that way.  So I wonder why it took 5 days to ship?   

Back to the point, a couple touchups with the router.  In one spot I got off center probably because its a small router and I suck at using it.  But I am being very nit picky. 
IN a couple spots had to use some hot glue which works very well BTW to hold the t-molding.  In another spot had to cut the spline down as the screws I used in the wood were too close the edge and I got some nice sparks when cutting the  slot.   

So there ya have it, $66 to get t molding installed and some frusteration!  $66 is not much more than the cost of a bigger router at HF so I feel I did ok.  Fortunately time wise I didnt care to have this complete until late Nov as the weather is nice right now in my area.  So its all good.

One other small thing, I ordred some LED from amazon, the led strips you can buy in 16 feet increments for $8.  Harbor freight style.  I have to say they work very well, short of the LED being spaced a bit far apart.  But for that price you can double up the strips.  They just look like xmas lights instead of a solid line of light is all.

Point is somethings are cheap and still work well!  Ironically I ordered 5 rolls because I thought thye were 16 inches.  Ha Ha. 

[Vigo]

$66 from scratch. Not bad, especially when having to order 40' of T-molding.

[dkersten]

Those strips have some good uses, but controlling them can get interesting.  The spacing is actually good if you are reflecting the light off a surface, but directly, they are just Christmas lights like you said.  They disperse very well though, and can be used for a number of things.  Ambient lighting around the cabinet, as marquee lighting, utility lighting inside the cabinet, and as party lighting for your arcade room.  I also used some around my deck outside for lighting, and set up a controller that works through my network and is controlled by my phone.  On a cab I did, I did cabinet lighting with the RGB strips and controlled it with an LED-Wiz from GGG so that LEDBlinky could control lighting animations during games and in the front end.  I also used small segments to change the lighting on the coin door reject buttons.

[Sarver Systems]

Link to the lights?

[screamingtiger]

The lights I used are these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSF64E6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you click on the "sold by" link you can see all the colors they have.  The blue is very bright, the red is not as bright.  I ordred the 3528  versions.  I do think if you want consistent brightness across all colors the red ones should be the 5050 versions.  the 3528 white and blue are way brighter than the other colors.  the come with power adapter soldered on to use a brick type DC adapter, it comes with a spare adapater you can solder on.  No power supply comes with it but you can find them all over, 12V.  Most routers (network) use a 12V adapter.  Do not buy the $10 power supply, what a waste.  Then can be had for 25 cents.

They can be cut every 3 LEDs and have a line where to cut them, and on the end of each 3 led segments, there are + and - terminals to solder wires on.   So if you want to make a square, you ahve to cut 4 parts to length and then use small wires to solder the pieces together. 

They have a built in resister so no need to worry about over amping a power supply.   I'll try to get soem amp readings but I do think a small strip of then a couple feet long could be directly powered by an aurduino at 40mA.

I'll come back in and post some pics, I am ordering a marquee soon.

[dkersten]

The 5050 strips draw quite a bit of power.. about 3 amps at max output for the RGB (so about 600m per color) for the full 5 meters, and most 12v wall wart style power supplies are 500ma, sometimes as high as 2 amps, but I wouldn't trust an entire strip to one.  The LED's you got are lower density (fewer led's per foot) and the led's themselves are lower output than the 5050's, and just one color probably only draws less than an amp for the entire strip, but even so I would be careful with a wall wart for more than a couple meters of strip.  I used about 8 meters of 5050 RGB on my deck (so far, I have other plans yet), and used an 8 amp power supply that cost me around $10 on amazon.  On the cab I did, I used close to 2 amps total of 5050 rgb (at max intensity, which it will never hit) which was pushing the limitation of the LEDWiz controller. 

And just an FYI, if you are using led strips without a controller and want to dim them, you can get cheap PWM dimmers on Amazon, but you need a pulse width modulated dimmer, just lowering the voltage doesn't really work.  There are connectors available for the different types of strips that make it really simple to cut the strips to the lengths you use and connect different sized strips together or to your controller/power supply.  Most of the "reels" of 5m that I have bought have an adapter already attached to one end, and you can get kits for about $5 more that come with a controller and a remote.  It is unreal how cheap it is to play with this stuff, but when you want to interface it to a computer to be controlled by software, it does get more expensive.

[screamingtiger]

My total usage will bea bout 5 feet from all colors.  Its for an arcade so just some bits and pieces here.
Hey I wonder if HF sells DC Adapters   

[ChadTower]

I use a full 5050 strip for the stair lighting into my gameroom using this power supply.  Works just fine and the plug size just happened to fit nicely into the controller I use.

[dkersten]

If you ran full 100% white, you would be pulling the max current from that, but as long as the rating is right, you should be good.  Personally, I would be hesitant to run a non UL Listed power supply at max capacity unattended.  But then you probably never run full on for any long periods of time

[ChadTower]

Yeah, the controller I have is for chase patterns and such.  There isn't any intensity control and it's only 8 colors.  Lots of neat effects but nothing that could pull 100% amps even if I wanted to do it.  I have considered getting a better controller just to get more colors but it would still be mostly for motion effects.

Like this only I ended up moving the strip to above the stairs rather than on the stairs.  People didn't like looking down at the stairs right into the bright LEDs.

[pbj]

Like this only I ended up moving the strip to above the stairs rather than on the stairs.  People didn't like looking down at the stairs right into the bright LEDs.

I'm glad to hear that.  I was really worried someone was going to have a drink or two and end up falling down those stairs, but couldn't phrase it without it coming out like yet another pbj gonna pbj post.

A wall wart is going to burn itself out long before it sets your house on fire. 

[dkersten]

I have seen enough electronics catch fire when "burning out" to not want to trust my whole house to an $8 wall wart.  I am sure it will be OK though...

[ChadTower]

I'm glad to hear that.  I was really worried someone was going to have a drink or two and end up falling down those stairs, but couldn't phrase it without it coming out like yet another pbj gonna pbj post.

Yeah, that was the main concern, lots of traffic there with people carrying laundry baskets and such.  I fell on those stairs myself a couple of years ago carrying a server and high sprained my ankle. 

[UFO]

And are you sure you were actually pushing your router the right direction?

This would have been my first thought... Pushed mine the wrong way at first and got a smoking smelly mess!