Beware of Harbor Frieght Slot Cutters! Here is my lesson.

[screamingtiger]

I bought the 7 pack for ~$25USD, as seen here:
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-pc-slot-cutter-set-for-table-routers-68876.html   

There are two versions, one with a 1/2 shaft arbor and the other has a 1/4" shaft.  I used the 1/4" shaft.
I only checked the 1/16th cutter, using a caliper I checked the blades and they are closer to 3/32.  The disc the blades are on is 1/16, maybe that is what they measure.

Anyways I attempted to use a dremel and grinding stone to get the blades down to 1/16.  I got close, probably closer to 1/8.  I attempted to sharpen the blades but no go.  Smoke, grabs and tearing.  Not pretty.
I ensured I had the tool installed right.

I was using a palm router so it may work better with a bigger route, but the palm is too light when the blades are dull and it is dangerous to use like that.  The router was nearly slowing to a halt as well.

There is a review existing on these that says the same thing, so its not my lot, these are all like this.

My suggestion is to buy the $7.99 two pack to get the arbor, and then buy a real slot cutter online.

BTW when I tested the slot cutter before I ground it down, it worked pretty well, just not the right size at all.  Maybe useful for 3/8 t molding?

It sucks, I went the cheap route:
19.99 trim router from harbor freight
$25 t cutter junk (this would be the same if I bought good stuff online)
$20 in t molding.

Total:  $65 to get t molding.  Considering the wood, hardware and spray paint only cost ~$50 to build the whole cabinet.    if its worth it.

I do plan to take the cutters back, and also to take back the router once completed.  The router works but is very cheap.  the plastic used to set the bit depth can move, and the bit within the chuck can move too.  I used a wrent to tighten the  out of it!  It wont last very long, maybe 3 cabinets and it will be stripped or burnt out.

There is just no way to do this on the cheap, unless you know someone with the tools, and these slot cutters are rare to find.  Could buy a 2nd hand slot cutter on here but after shipping it will wash out to the new price. 

I am in checkmate by the t molding!

PS I am in the Omaha, Ne area if anyone can help me out!

[pbj]

I have this set, it works fine:

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-three-wing-slotting-cutter-router-bit-set-68871.html

You should have tried your cutters on a piece of scrap and seen if the slot was acceptable for t-molding before you started grinding on it with a dremel.

And are you sure you were actually pushing your router the right direction?

[screamingtiger]

Did you check the 1/6" bit?  I can tell from the pic its not the right size.  The disc is 1/16 and the the teeth have way too much profile.

I did check it on scrap, ALOT.  It was cutting way too big of slot for th 1/2" t molding.  Thats when I realized it was not the right size.  Not sure why you thought I didnt do that.
The grinding was done in attempt to correct it. 

What size of t molding do you install?  It may be the other bits are ok but the 1/16" is not right at all.

[screamingtiger]

A review I read before buying them that is on both links posted by me and the other guy:

"While the price for this set of slot cutters was very reasonable, they were essentially unusable due to the extreme variances between the stated cutting width and the actually width. Only one of the six in the set was within my acceptable tolerances (a generous plus or minus 0.005"). The others were all over the map, with one oversized by an incredible 34%. Someone at the factory needs to put a micrometer to these before they go out the door."

Its true.  I am sure for bigger T molding you can use the 1/16 bit for 3/32 to molding. 

[Vigo]

  I have used them without problems. Maybe my model is different, I don't know. However, the logic from your post kinds points to that it doesn't work well because you took a grinding stone to the blade.

BTW when I tested the slot cutter before I ground it down, it worked pretty well, just not the right size at all.

Sounds like you might have wore off the carbide or something. And a palm router is definitely not for this kind of work. I would expect that heavy work on a light duty router would burn it out as well.

As far as the blade width goes, I haven't noticed any big issue. Any spot that was too wide, I just slapped in some hot glue to get it to hold.

I do plan to take the cutters back, and also to take back the router once completed.

Are you really gonna return a blade you took a grinding stone to? Not trying to call you out, but you did pretty much void the warranty.



Edit: Yeah, the one I have is the one PBJ uses. That other one looks like it is specifically for router table use.

[HaRuMaN]

This is the one I use.  Worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004T7JK/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1412869438&sr=1&keywords=1+16+slot+cutter

[taylormadelv]

I just started using my set of slot cutters from HB. I use the 1.5 HP router http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-67119.html
I had no problems besides user error. When I corrected what I was doing wrong, I cut perfect slots for standard 3/4" T molding. Maybe you need a more powerful router?

[Unstupid]

I love CMT Orange router bits.  If your router can do 1/2" shank go with that over a 1/4" shank.  Personally I use this one: http://www.amazon.com/CMT-822-316-11B-Bearing-16-Inch-Cutting/dp/B001NIA3S2 on a Bosch 1617 Router: http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B00004TKHV  Like a hot knife through butter!

[screamingtiger]

Hmm Apparently I dont communicate well so let me put this in cliff notes form:
-Tested on scrap wood
-Using palm router
-I tried the 1/16 bit, it worked WELL, however it cuts the wrong size slot
-Logically, the palm router I have will work fine, IF the blades are sharp.
-The slot is too big for the 1/2" t molding, as well as the sample of 3/4 t molding. It may work for 3/4 but it is a bit lose-I put a caliper on the blades, they are not 1/16 but closer to 3/32
-Logically, a 3/32 blade cannot cut a 1/16 slot
-In an attempt to fix it, I ground down the blades, which made them dull.  I did say I was unable to sharpen them
-Logically, this means I admit I made them dull.  While it now cuts the right size slot, the blades are dull and it will not be safe to use.
-Logically, I am going to return them because they are defective.  While someone may argue my modification makes them unreturnable, they are defective none the less due to a size error, at no fault of mine.
-I simply attempted to fix them to save HF a return
-The review from someone else shows he/she had the same problem, adding credibility to my claims.

All of this was in my first 2 responses.
The responses:
-Hey idiot, why didnt you use scrap wood (my 2nd post says I did, I never said I ruined my cab)
-Hey idiot, It worked well for my 3/4 molding idiot (I stated it may work for this size, and I am using 1/2 so no comparision)
-Hey Idiot, Your palm router is too small idiot (I stated it worked well with the sharp blades, the blades are too big.  This means the palm WILL work with the right blade)
-Hey Idiot,You dulled them by grinding them down, thats why it wont work idiot (I stated that in my first post, and I had to grind in an attempt to get them the right size which made them dull since I could not sharpen them )
-Hey idiot, Mine worked well for my t molding but I had to glue the molding in spots because the slot was too wide (and I am the idiot?)
-Hey thief, you cant return those.  (Ok you got me there, but they are defective and useless either way so sue me).

There are some good responses in here which I appreciate, and I agree another cutter is the key.  I just hope my thread saves someone else the headache.  I am CERTAIN that you may get some that are the right size, but its a crap shoot becuase they were probably made the right size on accident.  You cant modify them very easy, so hoping someone learns from me that it just isnt worth it.  That was my point.

[Vigo]

I never meant to be insulting, sorry if I came off that way. There is something about woodworking threads that make me sound snotty. I don't quite have the Bob Vila Charm when making woodworking suggestions. I wouldn't take it too personally either, most all us us have had much bigger woodworking screw-ups chalked up on our records. When I mentioned that it was wide in certain spots on my cuts, that was operator error. Vigo took a second pass in some spots. 

I am actually planning on buying myself a new caliper this weekend, I can test the width on mine and let you know how it goes.

[pbj]

Hmm Apparently I dont communicate well so let me put this in cliff notes form:
-Tested on scrap wood
-Using palm router
-I tried the 1/16 bit, it worked WELL, however it cuts the wrong size slot
-Logically, the palm router I have will work fine, IF the blades are sharp.
-The slot is too big for the 1/2" t molding, as well as the sample of 3/4 t molding. It may work for 3/4 but it is a bit lose-I put a caliper on the blades, they are not 1/16 but closer to 3/32
-Logically, a 3/32 blade cannot cut a 1/16 slot
-In an attempt to fix it, I ground down the blades, which made them dull.  I did say I was unable to sharpen them
-Logically, this means I admit I made them dull.  While it now cuts the right size slot, the blades are dull and it will not be safe to use.
-Logically, I am going to return them because they are defective.  While someone may argue my modification makes them unreturnable, they are defective none the less due to a size error, at no fault of mine.
-I simply attempted to fix them to save HF a return
-The review from someone else shows he/she had the same problem, adding credibility to my claims.

All of this was in my first 2 responses.
The responses:
-Hey idiot, why didnt you use scrap wood (my 2nd post says I did, I never said I ruined my cab)
-Hey idiot, It worked well for my 3/4 molding idiot (I stated it may work for this size, and I am using 1/2 so no comparision)
-Hey Idiot, Your palm router is too small idiot (I stated it worked well with the sharp blades, the blades are too big.  This means the palm WILL work with the right blade)
-Hey Idiot,You dulled them by grinding them down, thats why it wont work idiot (I stated that in my first post, and I had to grind in an attempt to get them the right size which made them dull since I could not sharpen them )
-Hey idiot, Mine worked well for my t molding but I had to glue the molding in spots because the slot was too wide (and I am the idiot?)
-Hey thief, you cant return those.  (Ok you got me there, but they are defective and useless either way so sue me).

There are some good responses in here which I appreciate, and I agree another cutter is the key.  I just hope my thread saves someone else the headache.  I am CERTAIN that you may get some that are the right size, but its a crap shoot becuase they were probably made the right size on accident.  You cant modify them very easy, so hoping someone learns from me that it just isnt worth it.  That was my point.

Well, thanks for your feedback on that bit set from Harbor Freight.  Good luck on your next attempt.  The cheap set I linked previously has worked fine for me and I've done a few cabinets with it.

 

[Vigo]

I got a new caliper today and I tested my 1/16 and 3/32 cutters. measured the blade part, and not just the disc. Mine came out perfectly.

[screamingtiger]

Are you using the 1/4 shaft or the 1/2 shaft?  Mine were black not blue is why I ask.
Now I am going back to HF and going to open up a few packs and measure them.  Thanks!

[Vigo]

I believe it is the 1/4" shank, the model PBJ posted.

[screamingtiger]

So I went to harbor freight.  First thing is they have the 1/4" shank, which has black cutters at my local store.  The versions with 1/2" shank at my store are blue. 
I opened up a few boxes along with a new width guage and took some measurements.
I am suprised by the following:
The black ones were off big time.
The blue ones were closer, but it depended on the tooth I measured and where I measured it.  The slot will be as big as the biggest tooth.

Here are some pics.  I managed to find one that had 1 tooth at 1/16 but unfortunately the next tooth had about 1/13 (no pic of that).
It really depends on where you measure.

I amost bought the one in the picture because it was close, 1/15, 1/16 and 1/17 tips.  But I decided I dont need to make the same mistake twice.

Did you measure your near the tip, it seems they tend to get wider towards the tip.

Also, when you installed your tmolding, did you need a mallet?


BTW I did find a flaw.  I looked at my arbor and the bearing is frozen, this would cause it to want grab really bad.  So I may try my modified one again.  It will smoke but as long as it doesnt grab I can use it.
I think the bearing froze because the washer they gave me is too big and hangs over the inner race.  So when I cranked it down to keep it from slipping it locked up the bearing.

[yotsuya]

I bought my slot cutter 4 years ago from GroovyGameGear and have never looked back! 

[dkersten]

By the time you add up the gas to make the trips to HF, the time it took you to test, measure, grind, attempt to sharpen, return, and measure new ones, you could have just spend $25 online and had a bit that worked.  All too often I see people spend way too much time and material in an attempt to save a few pennies. 

I bought my first one from a local cabinet supply shop (4 blade freud bit with shank and bearing).  But I misread the size on the website I ordered the t-molding from (it showed the t-molding was 3/32, and to use a 1/16 slot, and I bought the 3/32 slot).  I ended up using 120 grit sandpaper cut into 1/2" strips and folded with the sandpaper side out, stuck in the slot, and the t-molding fit snugly and needed a mallet to install.  The bit cut just fine, my own failures cost me some time though.

So on the next project I ordered a 3 blade slot cutter off Amazon for about $25 (1/16").  I tested it on scrap, and the t-molding I had fit perfectly (needed a mallet to get it in, and it held really nicely).  But then I ended up changing my mind on the t-molding and went with a different type.  I had a hard time installing it, but otherwise it went OK.  The next project, however, I used the same t-molding and realized that it was thicker than the first kind I used.  I went back to the website and sure enough, the stuff I had been using required a 5/64" slot, not a 1/16".  Now you would think that maybe 1/64" is not a lot, but it was enough to split the MDF on the test piece.  Thankfully my router table has 1/128" accuracy and I was able to make 2 more passes to widen the slot enough to make installation a breeze.  The irony is my original 3/32" bit would have worked just fine.  While being short 1/64" is enough to make it very difficult to install the t-molding, being 1/64" too wide is not a problem, the "teeth" on the t-molding are big enough to compensate. 

I shared this for 3 reasons: 
First, even an experienced woodworker can make mistakes.  You came here to share your mishaps with a tool, but just about everyone here has had a mishap with this kind of tool, and many people responded with sound advice.  There are dozens of threads here where the poster had the bit installed backwards and had nearly identical results as you had with your dull blade.  If you can't stand people commenting on your situation, you will have a tough time when you share your other work here and are judged for it.
Second, just because your t-molding isn't the same width as what other's have used, it doesn't mean that it doesn't take a different slot.  You obviously need a 1/16" slot just like MOST 3/4" t-moldings use, and others have used the set from the same place as you bought yours and had good luck.  It isn't a big leap in logic to assume that maybe you made a mistake somewhere.  In my experience, it is usually the user who fails, not the tool, so when I read your post I also assumed you made a mistake.
Third, despite my own mistakes, buying a quality tool meant that I didn't have to waste hours of my time measuring and trying to hone down a cheap tool to make it work.  A good tool will last a lifetime and can be passed down to a new generation.  And many of my best tools are well over 40 years old (even the power tools).  Good tools are never a bad investment, but cheap tools will always cost you more in the end.  Nobody said that this is a cheap hobby to be in.

Good luck with your project, I hope things from here out go better for you.

[screamingtiger]

Thanks for all the feedback. Let me tell you why I a getting so upset about this.  I read similar posts to mine on other forums about these darn slot cutters from HF.  Seems many have issues with them.  But then here comes a couple people totally negating the thread, stating it is user error etc etc and how they use them with NO problems.  That is the reason I ended up buying them, because of people like you.  You tell me I am doing it wrong and you have had great success.

First, some 3/4 molding does take a 1/16, some takes a 3/32. There is no doubt if yours uses 3/32 the 1/16 (or 1/14-1/17 bit that is) bit will work fine.  I want other people to see that user error is not an issue.  I went to HF and opened them up in the package, and showed how far off they all are.

I am sure some people get one of the sets that are close to the needed measuerments, but they need to understand its a crap shoot.

Once again, despite all the extra information I have given, someone will end up reading this thread, and still buying that crappy set because of a few who seem to negate what I am saying.

One thing to keep in mind, from my experience on ALL boards across multiple topics:  There are people who will make claims and give advice who have 0 experience with the top at hand.  For example, it would not suprise me if one of the 3 in this thread negating my information, has never even built an arcade cabinet.   

But regardless, its clear these are hit and miss so anyone reading this:  Measure the set at HF before you buy them.  I am sure you can find one that will work but you may have to measure a few sets!

[HaRuMaN]

Or just pony up the extra money and get a known good one.   

[Malenko]

Or just pony up the extra money and get a known good one.   

I see both sides of it.  I usually buy harbor freight stuff for "one off" projects or if I need a cheap tool and longevity isnt a factor (like a socket extension). I believe the intent of the post was to stress the exact point Haruman is making above, HF's slot cutters aren't worth the lower price, despite some people getting good slot cutters. So spend the cheddar on some good ones.

I thank you for taking the time to measure everything, and showing its a dice roll when it comes to QA. 

[pbj]

He bought the wrong kind of bit for an inadequate tool.  That's my take away from this.

 

I do have to laugh at the absurdity of breaking open packages to take your caliper to them.  Perhaps a better measure would have been to take a piece of your t-molding in?  You can foam at the mouth all day long about what the numbers say, but if your bit is off or your t-molding is off it doesn't really matter.

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20.  Yeah, the expense of T-molding and its installation is ridiculous but suck it up.

 

[dkersten]

And you seem to have missed my point too:  For all the effort put into this, you could have bought a better tool and been money ahead by now.  I appreciate your warning here, and for those who think that it actually saves money to buy the cheapest version of a precision tool that exists, you might save someone some money.  The lesson learned here shouldn't be that Harbor Freight slot cutters are not precise, it should be that whenever you buy a tool that needs to be precise, the cheapest one is probably the one that will end up costing you the most. 

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20 waste $30 worth of time, gas, and frustration trying to save $15.

I corrected PBJ's quote.

[screamingtiger]

He bought the wrong kind of bit for an inadequate tool.  That's my take away from this.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, I could have an industrial strength CNC router and it would still not cut the right size slot.  Unfortunately, going to the level I did was necessary to prove what I am saying.  However as we know despite hard evidence some will believe what they want anyways.

To be more exact, buyings these DID NOT save me money, it costs more!  I can get a good arbor and bit for ~$20 with shipping from amazon, and it has good reviews.  I paid ~$25 with tax.  The reason I went that route is becuase I like to support local and wanted to get this done that weekend.  Jokes on me!!  2 weeks later I am not done, and could of had one on hand by now.

Dkertsen:  That is exactly my point in the first place.  I dont know why its so hard to understand?

On a similar note, I bought a few things from HF:
Drill bits that dont drill wood, they burn through it with lots of smoke
A pencil torch that doesnt burn
A heat gun that is hot enough make wood smoke
The heat shrink is good.
My 3/8 socket doesnt fit a 3/8 nut
And of course my slot cutters.

Seems to be a common characteristic with the tools and burning wood... Wierd.

I did get a trailer there though.  A few small issues with locking nuts not locking and I had to cut a lug nut off as they cross threaded it on the installation.  The hubs come attached to the rims already in the box.  Good thing I checked it out before getting a flat.

I have a few thousand miles on it without a single issue.  Go figure!

Here is a pic of it in the early stages before I straightened out the support beams and added front and rear barn doors.

[yotsuya]

I think it's just kind of known around here that if you buy anything from Harbor Freight, it's a crapshoot. 

[Sarver Systems]

This thread needs more pics of the wife.

[Sarver Systems]

I've bought many tools from HF.

Its a well known fact to not buy anything with a cord on it at HF.

However, I did pick up a belt/disc sander in the scratch/dent section for less than 1/2 of a new one. It works perfectly fine.

I also bought an airbrush and airbrush compressor. No problems with it either.

All of my hand tools are stull running strong, except for the set of pliers. The pliers are fine, but the cutters couldn't cut through a wet paper bag.

[dkersten]

I bought a spring compressor, and while it is cheaply made, for the 3 times I ended up using it, it worked.  I was worried it would break and hurt me though, and if I was ever going to possibly use it more than a few times in my life, I would never have bought something that cheap.  I also bought some metric ball-hex sockets that I needed once, and they seem to actually be OK.  And I have a jack and some stands that I got from there, and while the jack couldn't come close to the weight it was rated at, it worked, and the stands are just as good as stands from anywhere else.  But I spent enough years working in a shop to know that cheap tools are cheap for a reason, and there is a good reason to pay for quality tools, particularly when you use them regularly. 

Router bits should be reusable, and cheap ones are pretty much shot after a couple uses, so I will never spend a penny on one.  And I agree 100% that anything with a cord from HF is worthless.  Power tools are the things you end up using over and over in life, and the cheap ones only aggravate you, cost you more money in the end, and potentially end up harming you. 

[Sarver Systems]

Oh, thats right. I bought a low-profile floor jack from them. THat thing is awesome.

I actually moved an empty, fully-built 10X12 wooden shed about 30ft across my yard with it.

[Unstupid]

The quality to the blade is very important.  You can measure the size of the cutting blade all you want. But if they are not aligned perfectly flat, or if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the shank, there blades will have some wobble between each cutting blade.  It will be impossible to cut a 1/16" slot.  Be careful with the bits on and off your router too.  Dropping them or resting the router on them can cause bending as well.  One thing I learned working with an industrial cnc router... At 25,000 rpm, you better make sure your bits are perfect!

[Vigo]

The harbor freight near me has displays of all their power tools. I would think that 15 seconds of holding the tool, and you should be able to tell if it is quality or not. Some is crap, but some if perfect for tools you don't routinely use. I have never been screwed by a harbor freight product, and I have bough plenty. I have also been very selective, and purchased better brand tools when it is a tool that matters to me. I bought a 5 speed drill press for $40 bucks from them. The thing has been a champ. Fell off the back of the moving truck from 8 feet up and it still drills perfectly. I also have an air compressor from them that has been a perfect mid-grade compressor. Their trailer products are much better than stuff from other hardware stores, and they have a steady flow of free flashlights, work gloves, tarps and screwdrivers that I have the luxury of not having to baby all my tools and supplies. They sell nice little box kits of random fasteners, springs, hooks, rivets, grommets, etc, that saves me a ton of time from looking for an exact part from the hardware store.

About the worst power tool I bought from HF is a belt sander, and it was still a good decision. The tool kept needing adjustment to keep the belt centered, so I was needlessly fiddling with it.  It was $15 on sale, but I only use a belt sander about once or twice a year. The cheapest model at Home depot is probably gonna be hovering around 50-60 bucks. If my belt sander breaks, who cares? If the motor at least still works, I will gut it and build something else out of it, like a spindle sander. Replacement? I could buy 3 more and still not hit the amount I would spend elsewhere. And is a $50 home depot sander gonna really last that much longer anyway?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that you just gotta be selective and smart about what you buy. People will waste a ton of money on trying to get the best stuff possibly no matter what they buy. Others only buy the cheapest and end up with an aggravating experience doing any shop work. A good balance and you can have a fully loaded shop for very low cost.

[pbj]

Now, now, vigo, let the nice men have their, "EVERYTHING at Harbor Freight SUCKS!!! except for this tool... and that tool... and that one... and this one...." conversation.

 

90% of it is the same crap from the other stores with a different sticker slapped on it.  The place regularly has a line out the door. 

 

[knave]

I know enough to be careful (and selective) at HF...but other than one item, I've never been disappointed. That's one out of 100s.
I pretty much agree with the above post that you can tell some about an items general quality by putting your hands on it. If you only need it once it still might be worth it.

I tend to take care of my tools even the crappy cheap ones...they last me a long time.

[dkersten]

I will agree that when it comes to a hand tool that you will only need a few times in your life, cheap quality is seldom a factor.

But if you think that most of what HF sells is just re-stickered quality products from reputable manufacturers, you are mistaken.  Most of what HF sells is Chinese junk that might be a cheap knockoff of a quality tool but with incredibly poor standards.  "Harbor Freight" literally means it came in from over seas, and almost every item in their store is an off brand import from China.  When you buy from them, you aren't supporting anyone but the Chinese, and there is no incentive for them to have quality control on any product they make. 

I firmly believe that, to a very great extent, you get what you pay for.  That is more true as you go down the scale than up.  Trust me here, if the junk tools they sell were so good, they would be sitting on the shelf next to the premium stuff at the big box stores commanding the same premiums, and people would be paying it because of the good reputation that the quality would warrant.   

I have seen HF electric tools out of the box light on fire, spark and smoke, have bushings so far out of spec that the tool literally shakes itself apart, and most often, fail after only a few uses.  But it isn't all that difficult to cast some steel into the shape of a wrench and have a workable tool. 

I can't say that everything they sell is junk, and I love harbor freight when it comes to items I need that don't need to last past one or two uses.  And they sell a lot of that sort of thing.  As stated, much of the "hardware" items are great deals.  And furthermore, they do sell a few items that are of decent quality.  But look closely at their prices.. those higher quality items don't go on sale every week, and they compare to the "store brand" products that you get at big box stores.

I know that many of the "good" name brands are nothing like they used to be, and sometimes are overpriced just because of the brand.  But there is a great equalizer out there called the internet.  You dust off your google-fu and do some searching, and I guarantee you that if a quality tool is overpriced by anyone, there will be someone on the internet selling it for a more reasonable price.  There is less markup than you think when it comes to some brands.  Granted, the manufacturer might mark it up a bit, but usually it is to cover better warranties or because it was manufactured in the U.S. where labor is more expensive. 

I am not a tool snob, I just have used tools enough (as a homeowner, as a hobbyist, and as a professional) to have seen how easily a poorly made tool can fail, or worse, how it can ruin what you are working on.  A cheap router bit will burn your wood to the point where you have to start over, and when you are working with a hardwood or exotic that costs you $10-$60 per board foot, that gets expensive in a hurry.  If you had to ask me one reason I would buy a $200 router over a $50 router, and I could only answer with one thing, it would be because I am not going to take the chance of having a less than perfect result and lose hundreds of dollars in material because I was too cheap to buy a good tool. 

We work with MDF or plywood in this hobby, and most often a mistake can either be corrected with some bondo or $5 in replacement wood, but many woodworking projects I have used my tools for have had far more in just the cost of the wood than the cost of the tools to work the wood.  I bought my first quality router about 17 years ago, and I would put money on it that if I had bought a cheap piece of junk that barely worked, I wouldn't have ended up wanting to make more things with it or ended up buying more tools to make even more cool stuff.  I would have been turned off by the quality and been discouraged from trying new things.  So my advice when it comes to routers or router bits is don't buy cheap, you will always regret it. 

[Sarver Systems]

I'll leave you with this...

"A man is only as good as his tools"

[jennifer]

Life's too short to get this obsessed over saving $20.  Yeah, the expense of T-molding and its installation is ridiculous but suck it up.

 

    Am I hearing this right?

[PL1]

I'll leave you with this...

"A man is only as good as his tools"

Don't forget, "It’s the poor craftsman who blames his tools."

A good woodworker knows to select the tools needed to produce the desired results and avoid the tools that won't.

Each part of the "woodworking skill + attention to detail + power tool + bit" equation adds to the cumulative error that limits the quality of the final result.

Threads like this help people avoid tools/bits that will increase error to the point where good results are far more difficult (or impossible) to achieve.   


Scott

[Vigo]

But if you think that most of what HF sells is just re-stickered quality products from reputable manufacturers, you are mistaken.  Most of what HF sells is Chinese junk that might be a cheap knockoff of a quality tool but with incredibly poor standards.  "Harbor Freight" literally means it came in from over seas, and almost every item in their store is an off brand import from China.  When you buy from them, you aren't supporting anyone but the Chinese, and there is no incentive for them to have quality control on any product they make. 

Dave, you are one smart dude, so I doubt  you need a reality check, but no matter where you shop, about everything but the most expensive of brands is gonna be manufactured in China. Yeah, there is HF stuff made so badly, I wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole, but to say you are avoiding the Chinese manufacturing machine by shopping elsewhere is not even remotely true.

Oh, and grab a snickers, because  even though you claim not to be a tool snob, complaining about inferior tools ruining you exotic woods in the same paragraph does sound a bit like a diva.

[dkersten]

lol, I know that almost everything is made in China.. but there are still quality companies that do a lot of quality control and even the majority of assembly in the U.S. And then there are the Chinese knockoffs.  You can take anything and fly to china and with practically zero experience and a couple weeks of legwork and a few dollars for a translator to help, end up with a deal to manufacture something that looks just like it for a fraction of the cost of the real thing.  Trust me, it is easy to do and the product is NOTHING like the real thing, but some people will assume that the top end brands are overpriced because you are paying for the brand.  That is rarely true with power tools.

I mentioned that I am not a tool snob because I knew I was coming across that way.  I usually work in woods like Oak, Cherry, or Maple, far from exotic but pretty damn expensive nevertheless.  I estimate that in the last 25 years I have spent somewhere around $25,000 on tools, and a couple thousand dollars of that has been on the kind of stuff Harbor Freight sells.  When a tool works for its intended purpose, I am satisfied, even if the brand is less than desirable.  When I don't know any better, I go for brands I trust.  When I do my research, I usually end up in the same place.  But every so often I find that the "off brand" has the superior product, even when price is not a factor.  And sometimes I just don't care, I want something cheap that will do the job, even if I have to throw it away when I am done.  I have dozens of clamps that I bought from an importer, and once I cleaned off all the Cosmoline, they work just fine.

I have power tools from Grizzly, Delta, Biesemeyer, Porter Cable, Bosche, Freud, Skil, Makita, Craftsman, Hitachi, Jet, Dewalt, and Performax.  And I also have some off brand tools like a wet tile saw that cost me maybe $50 and a black and decker 1/2" drill.  And the thing is, I don't have the "snob" stuff like General, Powermatic, or Laguna.  No self-respecting tool "snob" would have a Grizzly or Craftsman power tool in their shop, they are the bottom end of the midrange tools, lol. 

Bottom line is that if Harbor Freight made a table saw as good as Delta, Jet, or Powermatic can make one, and sold it for half the price, I would buy it.  But the sad fact is that when anything from HF is put up against a name brand (or even a box store brand), it fails to be comparable in every possible way.

One more note:  While I agree that a true craftsman can't blame his tools for a poor job, I also agree that a craftsman is only as good as his tools, which leads me to believe that there is a distinct line between a tool that will fail to do the job, and a tool that is adequate.  Once you cross that line, you can't improve on the job the craftsman can do, but you might cut down on the amount of time it takes the craftsman to do the work.  The craftsman is the one who can try out a tool and decide if it is adequate to do what he intends.  But my whole point has been that if you start at the very bottom, you will waste a lot of money trying to find an adequate tool.  The OP learned that the hard way. 

[Vigo]

Not to discredit the number of well made brands out there, but one thing I am certain of is there is far less domestic quality control than you would think on most power tools. My wife was a buyer for Menards Corporate. She dealt with the companies when there were product issues. Some of these companies were so out of the loop on their own products, that she was in direct communication with the manufacturer in China to work out product issues instead. These are smart manufacturers, Most of the time, the US company just tells them what they want, and the Chinese manufacturers design these products from the ground up. Even if they are assembled in the US. My wife's uncle owns one of the larges textile manufacturing companies in all of China. Makes products for most name brand apparel companies, Polo, Hollister, Abercrombie, AE, Banana Republic, etc. the list goes on. They have their own team of designers and pretty much dictate everything that these companies hang on their racks. They decide what we consider fashionable and what will be sold, not American or European fashion designers. They run the whole show. The amount of stuff that is even of our own design is plummeting, and most people don't even realize it. The quality difference you see is in tools simply a business decision, and not at all that these companies are building crap because they don't know how to do any better.

[pbj]

Heh, all I know is when I bought my Z64, it was out of the back of a warehouse labelled "Ling's Elegant Textile Designs" and it was full of small Asian women hunched over sewing machines. 

In Dallas of all places.