layout design feedback

[dubstylee]

I am working on the layout of my controls for a new control panel I am working on.  Just looking for any feedback regarding placement/etc.  The colors on the buttons are the size of the button holes to be drilled, and the black ring around them is the size of the bezel.  The 3" circle is for a trackball, and the other 1 1/8" circles are the hole sizes for the 2 joysticks.  There are Asteroids buttons above the trackball, and the 4 top buttons will be for coin/start buttons.

Any additional config buttons will not be visible on the top of the panel, they will most likely be located either on the sides or back of the panel.

Also, the size of the layout is 24" x 14".  Thanks for any feedback!

EDIT: new design layout below in replies.

[IAmDotorg]

Print it out life-size, stick your fingers on the buttons. Make sure they're a comfortable spacing. The blue and orange ones look like they'd be uncomfortably far apart. Also, just eyeballing it, you may need to move that middle one up -- trackballs for some reason tend to be very large under the control panel. The right joystick will also likely not fit with the trackball that close.

Why do you need dedicated asteroids? Most people just use the left/right on the joystick and three buttons, not the five button layout. Unless you're an Asteroids purist, you're using up a lot of space for that.

I printed out about eight or ten variants of mine using Visio and tested them out for spacing before I settled on my final layouts.

[JDFan]

player 2 joystick seems to be in the way of trackball usage (remember the joystick handle is not like a button that you can easily go over the top of)

[lamprey]

For the most part it looks fine. My only concerns are the Asteroids buttons above the trackball, it looks like the player-2 sick would be in the way. You might want to mock that up in cardboard to see if it bothers you.

Someone might have some other options, but I see a couple:
1. Shift the Asteroids buttons over (to the left)
2. Get rid of them and use a combination of player-1 and player-2 buttons to get all the buttons you need.

 

[Malenko]

the trackball will not fit where you have it.

[dkersten]

I agree with others, first the P2 joystick will be in the way of the trackball, give it more room if you can.  Second, Look here for the button layouts, while the uniform layout like you have might look good, it might be uncomfortable.  http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

Finally, if you are going to do extra buttons for anything, make sure you can use them comfortably for long periods of time.  Those asteroids buttons look like you will be resting your hands on the trackball and the P1 buttons to use, and reaching forward to use them.  Probably not the best place.  Also as stated, most people use the joystick for left and right and set your buttons 1-3 for fire, thrust, and hyperspace.  It eliminates the need for all those extras.

Oh, and any buttons in front of the trackball are going to get hit in games like golden tee, bowling, or shuffleshot, so make sure if you have buttons in the path of the trackball you can hit them without screwing up your game.  Twice now I have ended up with my "exit" button in the path of my hand when using the trackball and sure enough I have inadvertently exited the game in a heated match.. oops.

[dubstylee]

I hadn't thought of using left/right joystick and three buttons for Asteroids.  That is much better than what I was trying to do.  That will also allow me to use less buttons overall.  So if I scrap the Asteroids buttons, I would be able to move the trackball up and hopefully out of the way of J2.  I kinda thought the buttons might be a little far apart as well.  If the edge of the button holes was as close as the bezels are to each other, then they might be good, but I will try to move them a little closer and see about printing off to test the feel of the placement.

[lamprey]

the trackball will not fit where you have it.

Yeah Malenko is right. You might want to get templates for the controls, like the trackball and joysticks. That way you can tell how much space the really take up under the control panel so you make sure everything will fit.

[lamprey]

<duplicate>

[dkersten]

Careful on the trackball, if you get it too close to the monitor you will be bruising fingers and breaking nails when playing.. Keep it as far back as you can, and space your controls wider if possible.

[dubstylee]

Careful on the trackball, if you get it too close to the monitor you will be bruising fingers and breaking nails when playing.. Keep it as far back as you can, and space your controls wider if possible.

As far as trackball placement, maybe I could leave it where it is, but move the P1/P2 controls out farther and maybe move them up a little bit?

[dubstylee]

Here is an updated version of the layout, shrunk to 24x12 with the removal of the Asteroids buttons and moving the P1/P2 controls up and out a little.

[Xiaou2]

 After owning an Asteroids Deluxe machine for a short time, you realize the beauty of the controls.   Real leaf switches are really needed for the fast shooting, and are far less fatiguing than using microswitches.   Also, using a joysitck will be too sloppy and slow for turning the ship... due to the long travel from one side to the other... and back again.    If you miss a UFO or small asteroid by a hair.. and have to adjust a tiny touch in the other direction "Quickly", your going to have an issue with a Joystick response time.


 That said... you need about a 1ft diameter circle of clear space to operate a trackball as it was intended to be used.   In your picture, you would smash your hands into the 2nd players joystick.   As you roll the trackball, your hand starts to come up at an arc..  so controllers that are low, like buttons, should be fine to place in front of the trackball  (Nearest the monitor).  However, even then, it should be a few inches past the trackball... to make sure there is enough space for the arc to happen.
(Although, if these buttons were not HOT buttons such as Escape.. a few glides over them should be ok.  Its more about safety of your hands from being injured in that case)

 If you place controls too deep into the Control panel, it will become fatiguing to have to reach that far up for extended periods of time.

 Also, Imagine where your arms are going to be.  Peoples forearms tend to angle out towards the bodies sides, with the elbow outwards.  You need to make sure that each players arms are not going to be in each others way.   As well as thinking about IF you can reach another controller thats slightly deeper... without any other controllers in the way of your forearm.

 And... you may also consider, that it may too be uncomfortable, to rest your arms on top of other buttons and controllers.. to play the deeper controls.


 You could make the control panel able to be lifted out, and spun around... so that the monitor side controls, were now player side controls.

 You could make a trackball add-on, that you place over a button area... (feet high enough that there is clearance underneath)

 You could make the asteroids panel on the front of the machine, that flips up and locks in place.
(Folding-Table like Locking mechanism)

 You could make the asteroids panel a Pull-out and snap-locking drawer,  thats located under the main CP.

 You could make a dual trackball panel that has metal rails under it, that slides into locking holes in the machines front.
(make sure its hardened tube, or bar stock... something thats not going to bend from heavy pressure)


edit - Ohh, and buttons with a large arc like that... you will probably end up losing place of which buttons your fingers are resting on... because when you are not looking at them, and slide or raise off of them... you wont know exactly where they are inside of your mind.   You often will end up landing on a button edge, instead of its center.   Unless you are using Japanese flat top or convex buttons..  which I find do not feel good at all compared to the convex standard (for most of the arcade years).    Just think about your Keyboard keys.  They are all in a straight line.   Its a common mistake people made.. and one that a lot of people end up regretting... (including myself).


 Edit 2 :   And your trackball is Still REALLY close to that 2nd player joystick.. which is a danger to peoples hands/fingers.  It would be FAR better to offset the trackball closer to the player one sides buttons.. because they are lower, and pose no threat of broken fingers.   Sure, it wound be symmetrical... but who cares.  Not everything in this earth is symmetrical.  Your cars controls are not...    IMO, better to be safe than sorry...  over something trivial as a certain look.

[dkersten]

The layout looks better.  You might move the credit/start buttons to either side though, or split them up if you want uniformity.  This is only because, again, you don't want to be hitting them when using the trackball.  The only other issue I see here would be if the trackball would physically fit.  Each trackball is different in the size of the base, so you need to get the dimensions of the ball you will use and also the dimensions of the joystick you will use, and see if you have enough room for both.  I wouldn't worry too much about the P2 joystick in that layout, although it IS close, usually the only broad movements you use with the trackball are forward and in a small arc in front.  The side to side movement is seldom so frenzied or out of control, so you will probably not be hitting it even with a wicked slice or hook in golden tee..

I would still print it out to scale and set it up at the angle and height you are going to have it at to see if it is comfortable. 

[lamprey]

I'd, again, suggest trying the layout in cardboard first. I just don't understand those button layouts where the top row is offset to the right. But, apparently, they are popular or something. As a right-handed person, my hand doesn't naturally bend that way and my finger don't naturally go to the right, rather the left when on a control panel.

[IAmDotorg]

Here is an updated version of the layout, shrunk to 24x12 with the removal of the Asteroids buttons and moving the P1/P2 controls up and out a little.

That's very similar to the layout I have on my 2-player panel ... but I rotated the right buttons about 10 degrees counter-clockwise around the center point of the lower left button. In my testing, that made the position for P2 a lot more comfortable because they didn't need to stand so close to P1.

[dubstylee]

I made some more modifications.  I added the mounting plate on the layout to help visualize how much space the trackball will take up on the panel, rather than just showing the hole size.  Also, as suggested, rotated the buttons 10 degrees, and split the top 4 buttons into P1/P2.  I also widened the canvas to 30".  I can realistically go as wide as 34", but am trying not to make it too bulky.  This layout looks like there shouldn't be too much cramping going on with players too close too each other, etc. and hopefully the P2 joystick shouldn't be too much in the way of the trackball.

[IAmDotorg]

FWIW, I only rotated the P2 buttons. Definitely print it out and see what feels comfortable for you.

What buttons are you going to use on a trackball game? The P1 buttons?

[dubstylee]

FWIW, I only rotated the P2 buttons. Definitely print it out and see what feels comfortable for you.

What buttons are you going to use on a trackball game? The P1 buttons?

For now I plan to use P1 buttons, but I am hoping to print it off tonight and see how it looks on cardboard, and depending on the space, I may try to squeeze a couple buttons in for the trackball.  I will have to look through and see what games I actually plan on playing and see how many buttons will be necessary.  If more than about 2, then I will probably just stick strictly to using P1 buttons.  The games I can think of off the top of my head that use trackball that I plan to play are:

Rampart
whatever golf games
whatever bowling games
Centipede/Millipede
Missile Command
Marble Madness

[dubstylee]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to print the layout in actual size?  I don't mind using multiple pages, but I am having a hell of a time trying to get any programs to want to just print the thing in actual size.  The closest I could get is Paint, but it must not be understanding the resolution, because it is trying to take up 45 pages.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Add one more button below those admin buttons and you can have the best of both worlds.   

In my setup, I have the Asteroids layout doubled up as my admin buttons.  Depending on your front end choice, you can set it up to require having the exit button held down for :05 seconds in order to exit MAME games.  That way when you enter the asteroids game, you can press the exit button and it will function as a normal button.   

I've included screencaps from my video below  (Youtube channel in my signature).

DeLuSioNaL29

[dubstylee]

Add one more button below those admin buttons and you can have the best of both worlds.   

In my setup, I have the Asteroids layout doubled up as my admin buttons.  Depending on your front end choice, you can set it up to require having the exit button held down for :05 seconds in order to exit MAME games.  That way when you enter the asteroids game, you can press the exit button and it will function as a normal button.   

I've included screencaps from my video below  (Youtube channel in my signature).

DeLuSioNaL29

Do you have any issues with reaching over the trackball to play Asteroids? 

[DeLuSioNal29]

Nope.  Even if you were to hit the trackball or the spinner, it will not affect game play for that game.  Either way, it makes a pretty cool looking admin layout, which is the main reason that I chose it.  I also have it doubled up on my joystick as well, for players that want to use that instead.

D

[Xiaou2]

Add one more button below those admin buttons and you can have the best of both worlds.   

In my setup, I have the Asteroids layout doubled up as my admin buttons.  Depending on your front end choice, you can set it up to require having the exit button held down for :05 seconds in order to exit MAME games.  That way when you enter the asteroids game, you can press the exit button and it will function as a normal button.   

I've included screencaps from my video below  (Youtube channel in my signature).

DeLuSioNaL29

Do you have any issues with reaching over the trackball to play Asteroids?

 Does it Look comfy?

 Just because you Can play it like that, does not mean it feels good to do so.   Its certainly not optimal for your back, to be leaning over a cp like that.

 Are they leafs?   No?   As it does not look like it.   What it appears to be, is a button arrangement that is somewhat in the shape of Asteroids.. (not as difficult, because they are closer together)   but do not have the main functionality that Leafs provide.

 The correct controls are what makes the difference..  Far more important than the discomfort of the reach...  and even supersedes the actual Placement and arrangement.

 I Highly suggest seeking out the real deal, and learning the "Float" technique.  Its money and effort that are well worth the investment.

[Typefighter01]

Nope.  Even if you were to hit the trackball or the spinner, it will not affect game play for that game.  Either way, it makes a pretty cool looking admin layout, which is the main reason that I chose it.  I also have it doubled up on my joystick as well, for players that want to use that instead.

D

Now thats a man thinking outside the box. Good use of button placement...I might have to steal this idea

[Ryu21]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to print the layout in actual size?  I don't mind using multiple pages, but I am having a hell of a time trying to get any programs to want to just print the thing in actual size.  The closest I could get is Paint, but it must not be understanding the resolution, because it is trying to take up 45 pages.

Put it on a USB drive and go to Kinko's to print it.  It should cost you less than $3 to get it in black and white.