Decisions, Decisions, Decisions (oh my)

[kevvy2006]

Hello all, so this is my first time building an arcade cab and I have a bunch of questions.  A friend of mine is selling me a Nintendo VS. Cabinet dual system (Upright type not Red Tent) that was almost completely destroyed in sandy (Structurally Sound) and I am going to be converting it to a Hyperspin cabinet it will not only have Arcade games but console games as well.  I have a bunch of questions about this conversion hoping someone can help me with some (all? ) of these decisions.  This probably could be 8 different posts so please feel free to let me know if I should break this up into different posts lol


1. Should I use the stock monitors? According to my friend they should still work as only the board was under water  .  I know there are pluses and minuses for using the stock monitors and I am not sure they would handle console games well.  I was planning on purchasing new LED/LCD monitors (http://www.amazon.com/Asus-VS248H-P-24-Inch-Full-HD-Monitor/dp/B0058UUR6E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1342538788&sr=8-2&keywords=vh248h ).  If I did decide to use the stock monitors how do I even do that when the computer output is VGA,DVI or HDMI?  Also was looking into the LCD Monitors made directly for arcades but they are very expensive (http://www.ablackhorse.com/store/pc/19-Inch-arcade-monitor-complete-with-CRT-mount-for-CRT-replacement-for-upright-cabinet-replacement-5541p261807.htm )

2.  Should I use 6 button or 8 button configurations? I see a lot of discussion of 8 button configuration or 6 button configuration what do you think is best for me since I will be playing console games. I will be building a box on the side that will contain all of the inputs for the various console game controllers (Xbox 360(wireless), Playstation/2, N64, SNES, NES, Dreamcast, Atari, Genesis, Gamecube, and Wii attachment so far ).

3.  Should I powder coat or spray paint? I have 2 rusted coin doors and speaker grills which will need restoration.  Many people report powder coat is cheaper and obviously less work then spray painting just wanted your guys’ opinions.

4. Should I use LEDWiz or I-PAC Ultimate I/O?  I am completely lost here not sure what encoder I should use and what LED controller is best.  I like the I-PAC Ultimate I/O because it’s an all-in-one solution.  Basically I want to have each button have RGB LEDs that I can control, so far I think that the I-PAC seems to be the best option but I could go with an I-PAC2 and LEDWiz I just want to know what works best with LEDBlinky and controls obviously.

5. Which controls should I use Sanwa, Seimitsu, Happ, or Jyueeang? Too many choices of buttons and joysticks!  What are the best ones of each; I only really care about LEDs on the buttons not the joysticks.  I would really like clear buttons with RGB LEDs but willing to hear any opinions you guys have.  I have read that Happ are the cheaper but more popular brand.

6.  What material should I make the control panel out of?  I do have a friend who is willing to let me use his CNC machine if I decide to make it out of metal but maybe I should use wood?  What is better and easier to mount to?

7.  If you look at a picture of the Dual system it has two monitors and two control panels, I will be converting this to have two control panels (one for each player)  I was thinking about using trackballs along with Joystick and buttons.  Can I use two trackballs?  Which trackballs do you guys suggest?

8. Arcade Guns or AimTrak Guns?  I don’t know if there is a difference but I would like arcade guns in my cab for light gun games.  Is it possible to use these guns on two screens (1 for each player) with two IR bars?

Sorry for the really long post guys feel free to answer one or all of the questions!
Thank you very much,
Kevin

[Le Chuck]

I am going to be converting it to a Hyperspin cabinet it will not only have Arcade games but console games as well. 

What consoles?  Also what arcade games are you interested in?  This will determine much of what we'll suggest below.  I would say that for a head to head cab like this drop as much console as you can and really focus on the great competitive Arcade games out there.  For inspiration on this build look at Nephasth's Two Headed Beast: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,108719.msg1372013.html#msg1372013

1. Should I use the stock monitors?

If you can then I would.  Either that or swap them out for CRT monitors.  If you want light guns then you'll need to hunt for the CRT ones because they are better.  It won't be easy but it's doable - again with more information like exactly what monitors are in there now. 

2.  Should I use 6 button or 8 button configurations? I see a lot of discussion of 8 button configuration or 6 button configuration what do you think is best for me since I will be playing console games. I will be building a box on the side that will contain all of the inputs for the various console game controllers (Xbox 360(wireless), Playstation/2, N64, SNES, NES, Dreamcast, Atari, Genesis, Gamecube, and Wii attachment so far ).

Right so this is an "everything" box and when you try and do everything you sometime do nothing well.  I'd trim this list.  Save the console games for the couch. 

3.  Should I powder coat or spray paint? I have 2 rusted coin doors and speaker grills which will need restoration.  Many people report powder coat is cheaper and obviously less work then spray painting just wanted your guys’ opinions.

Painting will be fine, unless you have a real hankering to try your hand at powder coating. 

4. Should I use LEDWiz or I-PAC Ultimate I/O?  I am completely lost here not sure what encoder I should use and what LED controller is best.  I like the I-PAC Ultimate I/O because it’s an all-in-one solution.  Basically I want to have each button have RGB LEDs that I can control, so far I think that the I-PAC seems to be the best option but I could go with an I-PAC2 and LEDWiz I just want to know what works best with LEDBlinky and controls obviously.

There are other all-in-one options out there for LED and encoder.  I can't recall the name but somebody else can jump in... (Hey Scott, what am I thinking of?!)

5. Which controls should I use Sanwa, Seimitsu, Happ, or Jyueeang? Too many choices of buttons and joysticks!  What are the best ones of each; I only really care about LEDs on the buttons not the joysticks.  I would really like clear buttons with RGB LEDs but willing to hear any opinions you guys have.  I have read that Happ are the cheaper but more popular brand.

If it's an everything box it really doesn't matter.  Grab what seems nice looking since you'll be trying to play everything you can't match the right stick.  That said if you really like 4 way classics or really like 90s fighters or really like vertical shooters then we can give you decent stick advice. 

6.  What material should I make the control panel out of?  I do have a friend who is willing to let me use his CNC machine if I decide to make it out of metal but maybe I should use wood?  What is better and easier to mount to?

I'd go MDF as it's cheap and easy to work with.  Metal is great but know exactly what you want first.  You don't want to be producing multiple panels.

7.  If you look at a picture of the Dual system it has two monitors and two control panels, I will be converting this to have two control panels (one for each player)  I was thinking about using trackballs along with Joystick and buttons.  Can I use two trackballs?  Which trackballs do you guys suggest?

Sure you can, any USB trackball or trackball with USB adapter will work.  Don't forget the spinners and TRON sticks for each player too!

[keilmillerjr]

Post a picture and narrow down what you want. If you try to have it play every game known to mankind, you'll end up with this:

[kevvy2006]

I am going to be converting it to a Hyperspin cabinet it will not only have Arcade games but console games as well. 

What consoles?  Also what arcade games are you interested in?  This will determine much of what we'll suggest below.  I would say that for a head to head cab like this drop as much console as you can and really focus on the great competitive Arcade games out there.  For inspiration on this build look at Nephasth's Two Headed Beast: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,108719.msg1372013.html#msg1372013

Wow, that cab looks so great!!  I hope mine comes out to look like that when its done! I do want light gun games and fighting games
(I think it is a great idea to really focus on head to head games as you explained) 

1. Should I use the stock monitors?

If you can then I would.  Either that or swap them out for CRT monitors.  If you want light guns then you'll need to hunt for the CRT ones because they are better.  It won't be easy but it's doable - again with more information like exactly what monitors are in there now. 

My only problem with this is how can I use the monitors? My monitors are the ones that originally came with the Nintendo vs. cab (http://playchoice.riemen.net/downloads/manuals/vs_System_OpManual.pdf This is the manual if that helps?).  If you need me I can take pictures of the monitors and/or tell you the model number if you can give me an idea where to look on them. Is there anything wrong with using LED/LCD monitors and Aimtrak guns?

2.  Should I use 6 button or 8 button configurations? I see a lot of discussion of 8 button configuration or 6 button configuration what do you think is best for me since I will be playing console games. I will be building a box on the side that will contain all of the inputs for the various console game controllers (Xbox 360(wireless), Playstation/2, N64, SNES, NES, Dreamcast, Atari, Genesis, Gamecube, and Wii attachment so far ).
Right so this is an "everything" box and when you try and do everything you sometime do nothing well.  I'd trim this list.  Save the console games for the couch. 

I guess i should be more clear (sorry about that), the controls on the CP will be only for MAME games, Fighting and VS games.  If i want to play a Console game i will plug in an original controller. What games use the 8 button control style? Is 6 buttons good for most games?

[Generic Eric]

I am going to be converting it to a Hyperspin cabinet it will not only have Arcade games but console games as well. 

What consoles?  Also what arcade games are you interested in?  This will determine much of what we'll suggest below.  I would say that for a head to head cab like this drop as much console as you can and really focus on the great competitive Arcade games out there.  For inspiration on this build look at Nephasth's Two Headed Beast: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,108719.msg1372013.html#msg1372013
 

4. Should I use LEDWiz or I-PAC Ultimate I/O?  I am completely lost here not sure what encoder I should use and what LED controller is best.  I like the I-PAC Ultimate I/O because it’s an all-in-one solution.  Basically I want to have each button have RGB LEDs that I can control, so far I think that the I-PAC seems to be the best option but I could go with an I-PAC2 and LEDWiz I just want to know what works best with LEDBlinky and controls obviously.

There are other all-in-one options out there for LED and encoder.  I can't recall the name but somebody else can jump in... (Hey Scott, what am I thinking of?!)

Wolf something? @kickstarter and paradise arcade?

[kevvy2006]

Are you talking about Howler?  Is that better then the I-PAC?

[PL1]

There are other all-in-one options out there for LED and encoder.  I can't recall the name but somebody else can jump in... (Hey Scott, what am I thinking of?!)

Wolf something? @kickstarter and paradise arcade?

That would indeed be the Howler designed by Josh Wolf.   

I haven't tried it, but there appear to be many satisfied customers.   


Scott

[dkersten]

I haven't run into a mame game that takes more than 6 buttons yet.. Might be a few but I went 6+1 buttons (the 7th just in case, and it works great for oddball things like a shift button). 

I like the ipac ultimate, and it does what I want it to with LEDBlinky, and I was able to run 31 RGB LED's with one controller, as well as the inputs for everything else.  Granted, if I had used regular 4/8 way sticks for P1 and P2 I couldn't have run the rest (32 buttons, 2 mouse buttons, trackball, spinner, and the p3 and p4 joysticks), but with the U360's I didn't need those to run off the ipac uio, and that allowed me to run everything else off the ipac.  Couldn't have done that with less than 3 other devices (as far as I know).  Now I am planning out a 2 player CP and again for the money I can't beat the ipac uio, just an ipac + led64 or ledwiz is more than the ipac uio, and while I don't need all those inputs and outputs, at least I am at a one piece solution.. I can run the entire CP off one usb cord.  I have no knowledge or experience with the other controller mentioned.

[Generic Eric]

Are you talking about Howler?  Is that better then the I-PAC?

I'm talking about the howler.  The howler does all the things you want.  I've bought several encoders, but not that one.  http://www.wolfwareeng.com/?page_id=25
It is either that or the the Ultimarc Ultimate: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacuio.html

There is a lot of reading to be done.  Chances are you are going to buy at least one thing now, that you will find you don't like and upgrade later.

Could be the monitor, the usb interface, could be the joystick.

Start small.  Update as necessary.  This isn't a hobby that gets cheaper over time.  It gets more expensive.

I'd recommend you make a fight stick with a kadevice from http://kadevice.com to get your feet wet.  You can also reprogram it for a number of consoles.
 http://kadevice.com/kade-miniarcade/quickstart-guide/

Then you can go with a keywiz from groovy gamer.  I've been rocking that for almost 4 years I think. 

As long as you buy something from a vendor that maintains a website and tech support its hard to go wrong. 

The purpose of the fight stick is to get started now, have something you can use to configure mame and your controls and move on with your plan. 

Takes lots of pics of your build.  Upgrade your camera/phone now so we don't see potato pics.  There is really no wrong way to do this.  Except for maming a Computer Space Machine.  Or putting a 4 player control panel a Pac Man.

Just keep in mind that if you swap everything out, you just have a precut wooden shell.  Maybe you want something that looks different anyhow. Considering that its a victim of Sandy, how much water damage did it take?

Best wishes.

[kevvy2006]

Hey Guys,

All of this information has been so useful to me.  Like I said before i am just starting and am in the planning/restoring phase.  I am going to share a dropbox link for anyone interested in my build that I will update with pictures ( I do have a few in there and will be adding many more this weekend.  )

As you can see with the pictures there is a lot of rust and such.

The inside had a ton of brush from the ocean in it before I cleaned it out.  Amazingly the Coin Trap buckets are still there and relatively good condition.  I will be taking pictures and uploading that to the dropbox also. 

Very excited to get started. 

Thanks again all,

Kevin

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zfs9hqz1npvdogi/AABSjwIXJXPea5_hmbxM1Plaa

[Xiaou2]

I think the biggest problem is that the cab could have mold growing inside of it... if it had gotten wet.   Mold can be quite toxic..  and is Very difficult to get out of soaked wood.

 May want to do some research into this to make sure its ok to do.

[PL1]

I am going to share a dropbox link for anyone interested in my build that I will update with pictures ( I do have a few in there and will be adding many more this weekend.  )

And what happens when [insert photo hosting site] moves your photos to another server, wrongly deletes your account, changes their terms of service, or goes out of business?  What if the acount is hacked, you forget your password, exceed your monthly bandwith allowance for the site, you/wife/kids accidently delete the pics, or you decide you don't need those old build photos any more?   

The photo documentation of a number of great builds has been lost this way.

Since you're taking the time to document and share your build experience, please exert the tiny bit more effort to upload at least the key photos to a post in the "NOT A PROJECT" thread (stickied at the top of "Project Announcements" for your convenience) along with a few key words so you can easily find your pics later.

The only thing to look out for is that you don't accidently link to a thumbnail instead of the full-size image.   


Scott

[kevvy2006]

I am going to share a dropbox link for anyone interested in my build that I will update with pictures ( I do have a few in there and will be adding many more this weekend.  )

And what happens when [insert photo hosting site] moves your photos to another server, wrongly deletes your account, changes their terms of service, or goes out of business?  What if the acount is hacked, you forget your password, exceed your monthly bandwith allowance for the site, you/wife/kids accidently delete the pics, or you decide you don't need those old build photos any more?   

The photo documentation of a number of great builds has been lost this way.


Since you're taking the time to document and share your build experience, please exert the tiny bit more effort to upload at least the key photos to a post in the "NOT A PROJECT" thread (stickied at the top of "Project Announcements" for your convenience) along with a few key words so you can easily find your pics later.

The only thing to look out for is that you don't accidently link to a thumbnail instead of the full-size image.   


Scott

Well when you are right you are right 

I did not even know that was there LOL this is my first post on this site     I will be making a project announcement post also!

Thanks For the Advice 

[kevvy2006]

I think the biggest problem is that the cab could have mold growing inside of it... if it had gotten wet.   Mold can be quite toxic..  and is Very difficult to get out of soaked wood.

 May want to do some research into this to make sure its ok to do.

Well only the lower portion of the cab was under water, I was thinking I will replace this wood that is on the bottom, i was also going to cut out any parts that looked water damaged and bondo what need be.   Overall I think the cab is okay but I will be taking pictures of it more and posting on my project thread (Just started thank you scott!).
 

[Generic Eric]

Hmmm...not to be an ass, but do "friend" & "Imma gonna sell you a water damaged cab" go together?

Don't mind me.  Someone has to say it.

[ark_ader]

Get an X arcade and work your way up.

[yotsuya]

Hmmm...not to be an ass, but do "friend" & "Imma gonna sell you a water damaged cab" go together?

Don't mind me.  Someone has to say it.

If it was understood that the cab was waterdamaged when sold, then I say "No harm, no foul".

[kevvy2006]

Hmmm...not to be an ass, but do "friend" & "Imma gonna sell you a water damaged cab" go together?

Don't mind me.  Someone has to say it.

If it was understood that the cab was waterdamaged when sold, then I say "No harm, no foul".

I knew about the Water Damage and he priced it accordingly, I will be replacing the wood as I see fit but why should we throw out a cab because of a little water 

[Generic Eric]

Hmmm...not to be an ass, but do "friend" & "Imma gonna sell you a water damaged cab" go together?

Don't mind me.  Someone has to say it.

If it was understood that the cab was waterdamaged when sold, then I say "No harm, no foul".

I knew about the Water Damage and he priced it accordingly, I will be replacing the wood as I see fit but why should we throw out a cab because of a little water 

NP OP! 

@ least it's not made of asbestos.

[MTPPC]

After you have it done and use it for a few months, you will narrow it down to a pretty specific set of games and then you will have the experience to answer your own questions. Until then... FRANKENPANEL.. WOOT!

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

[yotsuya]

I knew about the Water Damage and he priced it accordingly, I will be replacing the wood as I see fit but why should we throw out a cab because of a little water 

Agreed. I've taken on cabs that had one foot in the dumpster.

[kevvy2006]

After you have it done and use it for a few months, you will narrow it down to a pretty specific set of games and then you will have the experience to answer your own questions. Until then... FRANKENPANEL.. WOOT!

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

Do not want to make a frankenpanel!    This is the design I was thinking of for my CP for buttons (See below) a spinner and a trackball will be next to these buttons.  I am not sure if I will do that 8 buttons but you get the idea.

Let me know what you guys think.

[shponglefan]

After you have it done and use it for a few months, you will narrow it down to a pretty specific set of games and then you will have the experience to answer your own questions. Until then... FRANKENPANEL.. WOOT!

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

Do not want to make a frankenpanel!    This is the design I was thinking of for my CP for buttons (See below) a spinner and a trackball will be next to these buttons.  I am not sure if I will do that 8 buttons but you get the idea.

Let me know what you guys think.

Test the button and joystick placement with prototype mock-ups prior to building the full panel.  You'll rapidly discover what is comfortable versus uncomfortable.

[PL1]

+1 on cardboard/hardboard test panel.


Scott

[dkersten]

If you print those at full size it should be to scale on most printers, but I highly recommend placing it on a board similar in size to your planned CP surface, and then mock it up at the height and angle you plan.  I went with that layout as a base (shortened it to 6 buttons), and started out printing it out and setting it on my desk and placing my hand on it.. It felt perfectly natural and lined up great.  But when all was finished, the height and angle it sat at, I found I would have been slightly better to have the third button up a little higher.. when it sat flat it fit my fingers perfectly, but at about 7 degrees I have to bend my ring finger just about a quarter inch further down than natural to center it on the third button.  Certainly not a dealbreaker situation, but not as perfect as I had hoped.

[kevvy2006]

I never thought of creating a "Mock" control panel out of cardboard.  That is a great idea!  Thank You!

[PL1]

I never thought of creating a "Mock" control panel out of cardboard.  That is a great idea!  Thank You!

You have read the FAQ, right? (see #9 in linked section  )


Scott

[shponglefan]

I never thought of creating a "Mock" control panel out of cardboard.  That is a great idea!  Thank You!

If you can, making it out of MDF (1/2" is ideal for this) is better.  As this is your first build, creating a mock MDF panel is good training for building the real thing.  Especially if you're planning on routing out recessed areas for joysticks.

[kevvy2006]

I never thought of creating a "Mock" control panel out of cardboard.  That is a great idea!  Thank You!

You have read the FAQ, right? (see #9 in linked section  )


Scott

Yea I did not see that!  Thank You for the link.

[kevvy2006]

I never thought of creating a "Mock" control panel out of cardboard.  That is a great idea!  Thank You!

If you can, making it out of MDF (1/2" is ideal for this) is better.  As this is your first build, creating a mock MDF panel is good training for building the real thing.  Especially if you're planning on routing out recessed areas for joysticks.

I think I will make it out of cardboard first, after that ill move up to MDF and then I will make with some type of wood.  I like the idea of testing it to see how it feels before moving on to anything more expensive then Free

[AzureKnight]

I'm in the final design phase of my cabinet and I cannot express how immensely happy I am that I did a mock up in cardboard first.  I've changed several things once I actually had it all in front of me physically.