How do you guys do it?

[time to give up]

All I wanted was to play some video games... revisit Pac-Man, try some FPS, a little of this, a little of that. I'm a middle-aged man who hasn't played any of these games in about 25 years. So I bought myself a PS2 hooked up to an old TV and got started. So far so good. One little problem, though:  the DualShocks work well, but are just too small for my hands.

Step one:  order some Kontrol Freek knobs to give me something to grab hold of.     They arrive quickly, look cute, and don't fit on the DualShocks.  Okay, no biggie, they were cheap.

Step two:  order a PlayTech fight stick from Amazon.  The reviews are great! The price is dirt cheap! Quick Amazon delivery!  ... and it doesn't really work.  I can't get it to reliably go in any direction, which is a real drawback when playing Pac-Man. And I'm certainly not going to move on to games that are new to me with a joystick which I do not trust.

Step three:  maybe it's time to try some modding.  I open up the stick, see it has quick disconnects, and go out to find a similar aftermarket stick.  People rave about Sanwa, so I decide to give them a try.  The JLF Doesn't have quick disconnects, so I go for a JLW.  Stop me if you've heard this one before: it is very very difficult to get a JLW.  I only see three places on the web that have them, and they are in Hawaii, London, and Perth. I try Hawaii first.  place the order, they charge me, and then nothing. There is no response to my e-mails, and the joystick has not been shipped.I search the web for ways to contact him, and find a tip as to which e-mail link to use, and I finally am able to successfully cancel the order.

Step four:  let's try that again.  I order one from London. They, in contrast to Hawaii, seem to be a very well run enterprise. They send the stick out right away. I wince a little about having to pay $15 for shipping, but I feel I am backed into a corner.  DHL decides that my address doesn't exist, but since I am following the tracking like a hawk, I get hold of them and eventually get the stick....  It doesn't fit. Okay, fine, at this point I am desperate and cut a hole in the base of the PlayTech, and let the JLW hang out a little.

Step five :  huzzah!  I have a modded fight stick...  that works like crap.  The Sanwa Starts out okay, but after 20 min. starts failing to move in the appropriate direction. It is especially reluctant to go down. Okay, "reluctant" is an understatement. I am furious. After all this time, after all this effort, I have gotten nowhere.  Sanwas are supposed to be the gold standard, right?  I have had enough.  I bring my fist down on the joystick... and break it.  Some little part that has no name but keeps the joystick from falling into the box has broken.

Step six: go look for the part online. It's entirely hopeless, no one sells such a thing.

Step seven:  it's time to decide whether gaming is worth this insane hassle.

So I ask you all:  what is the secret?  Did I make some egregious newbie mistake that can now be corrected?  How do YOU get to have a stick that works?  Were your first sticks nonfunctioning junk?  Do I have to spend $300 if I'm not willing to take this on as a trade?  Give it to me straight:  I don't have the time, mental energy, or money to spend chasing snarks.

Thanks in advance for your words of wisdom.
 

[drventure]

Well, sorry to hear you're having troubles.

I don't really know much about the PS2 and how mame or other classic games run on it, so I can't be much help there.

I DO know that there is a marked difference between an 8way stick and a 4 way stick. 8ways let you hit diagonals, 4 ways do not.

What this means in practice is that using an 8 way stick on a game that was intended for a 4 way stick can be infuriating.

and using a 4 way stick on a game that was meant for 8ways, means you can't move diagonally, also annoying.

Bottom line. With mame, or any other emulator emulating so many different games out there, and with so many of those games being meant for very specific and different hardware configurations, there's a lot of choices and combinations to choose from, many of which won't quite get you to where you want to be with a specific game.

I'd recommend doing some searching around on these boards and reading up. There's a lot of people doing what your doing and a lot of good info here.

Don't let it get to you, and don't give up.

and if you post back, the more specific you can be, the better.

Maybe someone with more knowledgeof the ps2 offering will step in as well.

[Unstupid]

Your big mistake was in step 2.  You cant use a cheap arse "fight stick" to play classic games.  That thing is a toy!  Build your own box and reattach the JLW.  also make sure you have the restrictor plate on the JLW set to 4 ways.  Also step 3 I find hard to believe.  Also if you look on their website they have a phone number right there you can call...  BTW I'm sure they have the part you broke on your joystick!  Also your nic says time to give up...  but you havent even gotten started yet!

[chopperthedog]

After he finds himself a new "E" clip.


good day.

[Typefighter01]

1. Do you see yourself buying other consoles or playing games on the PC (MAME) or are you content with the PS2?

2. Exactly which type of games are trying to play (just Pac-man)?

3. Are you the type of guy who likes to build things and take things apart (I know you stuck a JLW in a fight stick) but did you enjoy doing it?

4. How much do you want to spend? ($300 is what I would budget for a fight stick with 4/8 way switching)

If you can answer these questions we might be able to help you better

BTW, was it Pac-man you were playing when you punched your fight stick?

[time to give up]

Dr. Venture--

Thanks for the encouragement, but what I get from your post is that I'm going to have to do lots more research and hope that what I come up with is suitable for classic games, then go through it all again if I want to play other games.  Frankly this is what I have tried to do already.  For instance, I had to learn that the JLW's restrictor would be better than the JLF for 4-way games.  Didn't help, though.   

[time to give up]

TypeFighter--

1)  If I play games on the PC I'll probably restrict them to mouse-friendly ones.
2)  Well, I was hoping to try something of everything, and was doing arcade games partly to do something familiar while I learned about using the PS2 and different types of controllers.
3)  I'm fine with bolting and clipping and stuff like that, and like it, but have trouble with things that require a steady hand (I have a little bit of tremor). 
4)  I would really like to get out cheaply.  I spent a grand total of maybe $65 for the console, dualshocks, and games.  I had no idea that the cost of a joystick would dwarf the whole rest of the investment.  And, frankly, if I was going to spend $300 I'd probably get something with a motion controller and tons of fun attachments, rather than a joystick.

...and it was Dig Dug, which I had taken to playing lately because it tolerates joystick errors better.  Not better enough, I guess.

[time to give up]

Unstupid--

You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you wish.  What I wrote was true regardless.

[WindDrake]

There's not a whole lot of "Simple" in this hobby, sadly. It takes a fair bit of patience, willingness to learn, and most importantly, TIME! This can be an amazingly free time-destructive hobby.

Here's some questions to answer that'll help us point you in the right direction.

1: Platform. What do you want to play the games on? PC, PS2, X-Box, Grandma's Toaster?

2: Budget. This stuff isn't cheap. What can you spend?

3: Skills. Can you paint? Solder? Do any basic woodworking? Can you assemble Ikea funiture?

Edit: Okay, looks like PS2 is your poison of choice, and you're at least good for Ikea funiture, but you want cheap.

http://www.focusattack.com/foehammer-diy-arcade-wood-joystick-case-black/ <- Case
http://www.focusattack.com/toodles-cthulhu-multi-console-pcb/ < - MC Cthulhu control board

Check out FocusAttack, and the FoeHammer case. Combine that with a MC Cthulhu control board, wiring harness, and controls of your choice, and you should be all set.

Though, if you like 4/8-Way options, you might want to look into an Ultimarc ServoStik. Just add a small button somewhere on the case for easy 4/8-Way switching.

Hope this helps.

[time to give up]

WindDrake--

Wow, that really IS helpful!  Will you do my taxes?

OK, seriously, this is just what I needed.  I'm too burned out by this process to go shopping around, but this looks like it will all work, and for about $200, and can be relatively easily changed for different platforms.

I just want to note that my one accomplishment in all this was solving the 4-way/8-way changeover problem when I cut a hole in the bottom of the case under the joystick!

Many thanks.

[Typefighter01]

Part of the fun in this hobby is building your own arcade controls (hence the BYOAC in forum title). Saying that, WindDrake is pointing you in the right direction. Both items he linked are quality items. It is as close as you can get to plug and play and you could probably put it together in one night, and it would give you a little more knowledge of how controls work.

If Dig Dug was the game giving you problems, then your stick was probably in 8 way mode (thats if it even has a 4/8 way restrictor plate you can adjust-I think it does, but I am not sure-). Google 4 way vs 8 way joystick so that you have completely wrapped your head around the difference.

There is lots of "Classic Collections" available for the PS2, so you should set in the console dept....

Edit:Your too fast, I see now you know the difference 4 vs 8 way

[time to give up]

I just had a realization:  joysticks are Harley-Davidsons.  Back when I used to ride I was never tempted to get a Harley.  They cost too much, you had to spend an enormous amount of time fixing them, and owners were inevitably dragged into buying all sorts of expensive gear they wouldn't have bought otherwise.  I rode a Honda because I mostly wanted to ride.  And now I mostly want to play video games.  And the Dualshock (the Honda of controllers, if you will) does everything.  When you press it up, it goes up.  When you press it to go right, it goes right.  And so on.  Capabilities that seem to be beyond joysticks, unless you spend and spend and fix and fix.  And all that spending and fixing just isn't for me.  So I'm just going to figure out how to get my Kontrol Freek knobs to stay on with superglue and baling wire and whatever else it takes.  And then, after 3 months, I will be able to play some Pac-Man at last. 
Thank you all for hearing me out--  I found the whole discussion quite clarifying.

[shponglefan]

I just had a realization:  joysticks are Harley-Davidsons.  Back when I used to ride I was never tempted to get a Harley.  They cost too much, you had to spend an enormous amount of time fixing them

Eh?  I've built a few controllers over the years.  Never had to fix anything though.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong? 

[time to give up]

OK, OK, substitute "spend time working on" for "fixing."

[time to give up]

You realize we're talking about video games, right? 

[time to give up]

I certainly did not insult anyone who was trying to help me and I'm more than OK with your refusal to help.   Others, on the other hand, have been quite helpful, but apparently they are not "anyone on here."  That will probably be news to them.

[Le Chuck]

I just had a realization:  joysticks are Harley-Davidsons.  Back when I used to ride I was never tempted to get a Harley.  They cost too much, you had to spend an enormous amount of time fixing them, and owners were inevitably dragged into buying all sorts of expensive gear they wouldn't have bought otherwise.  I rode a Honda because I mostly wanted to ride.  And now I mostly want to play video games.  And the Dualshock (the Honda of controllers, if you will) does everything.  When you press it up, it goes up.  When you press it to go right, it goes right.  And so on.  Capabilities that seem to be beyond joysticks, unless you spend and spend and fix and fix.  And all that spending and fixing just isn't for me.  So I'm just going to figure out how to get my Kontrol Freek knobs to stay on with superglue and baling wire and whatever else it takes.  And then, after 3 months, I will be able to play some Pac-Man at last. 
Thank you all for hearing me out--  I found the whole discussion quite clarifying.

Great! 

I echo the advice you received to dig into the forums and conduct research if you intend to try building again.  This hobby is more than video games for many of us, it is about community, an experience, and the process of building.  Getting to play classic games they way they were meant to be enjoyed is a bonus.  It's not for everybody and that's okay.  The majority of folks on here do take this hobby very seriously and most will tell you that it isn't easy and they only reached a level of proficiency through a lot of self study and trial and error. 

If you feel that some of the comments you're receiving in this thread are out of touch that is likely because many of the community members feel the same when they read your posts.  No judgement, no need to change.  It is what it is.  Glad you found a course of action that will suit your needs. 

[time to give up]

Hi Le Chuck--

Thanks, it really is what it is.  I actually like the idea of building my own (and all the comforts of the hobby culture), but I frankly don't have the time to do that and also learn/play some games. 

I get that my point of view is that of an outsider--  that's actually why I wanted to post here.  Even the most generous commenters have said that it's a big undertaking.  That is exactly what I needed to hear, from the people who actually know.  AFAIC, it has worked out well.

[Felsir]

When you press it up, it goes up.  When you press it to go right, it goes right.  And so on.  Capabilities that seem to be beyond joysticks, unless you spend and spend and fix and fix.

Just wanted to add, that this is not a joystick issue but a software (game) issue. Having 8 way and 4 way joysticks are determined by game mechanics. Imagine Pacman is travelling to the left. Pacman arrives at a corner where he can go up or down. If the player pushes the joystick top-right, where does Pacman go? Does he reverse and goes back where he came from? or go up? If it is too easy to hit in the stress of the game unintentionally a diagonal the game does not respond as the player expects. To remedy this, only strickt inputs up-down,left-right are permitted in the software. To make sure the player cannot input diagonals, the joysticks for such games are 4 way.
So it is not about fix upon fix for the joystick, its the different joysticks games expect based on their software design.
Modern PS2/PS3 games are created with the dualshock in mind so the programmers/designers keep in mind that players may hit diagonals and design the game-characters behaviour around that.

[shponglefan]

OK, OK, substitute "spend time working on" for "fixing."

It's all relative, though.  For example, my first controller was built out of similar circumstance to yours; I had video games I wanted to play (mainly Street Fighter II and co.) and wanted a proper arcade-like setup.  So I built a 2P controller that I could use in my living room.  It probably took a few weeks to design/build, and a couple hundred $ in terms of material cost.

But subsequent to those few weeks, I got years of usage out of it.  And it was trouble free in the process.  So the initial investment was well worth it.

[time to give up]

Felsir--

Thanks for the thoughtful input.  I'm starting to think that the restrictor on the JLW was rotating a little while I was playing.  It's hard to explain how it would work in an exemplary fashion and then decay in 20 minutes otherwise (I tested the microswitches and they were fine).  It's not secured tightly at all IMO, so I'll probably get the replacement for the part I broke (Ultimarc has it!  Yay!) and then go to Ace to get a shorter screw that puts direct  pressure on the restrictor, rather than with a spring in between.

[time to give up]

shponglefan--

That's exactly what I needed to hear:  that it can be done starting from zero, but that (in your case and undoubtedly mine) it takes weeks.  Which is OK down the road, but I probably won't have that kind of time outside of summer. 

OTOH, you sound like much more of a craftsman than I am;  I am incapable of cutting in a straight line. I might just go with an X-Arcade and restrict my projects to assembling an interesting cabinet for everything.  I guess I'm going to have to think about this some more.

[shponglefan]

shponglefan--

That's exactly what I needed to hear:  that it can be done starting from zero, but that (in your case and undoubtedly mine) it takes weeks.  Which is OK down the road, but I probably won't have that kind of time outside of summer.

TBH, putting together a basic unfinished controller could be done inside of a day.  It's mostly the finishing work (painting, sanding, more painting) which takes longer.

OTOH, you sound like much more of a craftsman than I am;  I am incapable of cutting in a straight line.

At the time I really wasn't.  It was the first real woodworking project I ever attempted (outside of high school shop class).  And first time I ever worked with plexiglass, too.  It was mostly a learning experience and admittedly the end product, while functional, wouldn't win any aesthetic awards.

But hey, we all start somewhere.

I might just go with an X-Arcade and restrict my projects to assembling an interesting cabinet for everything.  I guess I'm going to have to think about this some more.

Whatever route you choose, good luck.

[Yenome]

heh my first real arcade stick thats not in a cardboard box is made out of a old dresser draw. i took the face off two of em and used the 3 walls for it and glued them to make a box. then drilled holes for two sticks and 7 buttons ea. added my xin-mo pcb and bam a 2 player arcade panel that works on pc as well as ps3. even with the price of the drill im still only round 100 dollars in on this.

[time to give up]

I'm much more inclined to make something out of a found object, like yenome.  That way I would have something unique, not just uniquely ugly!

[Gray_Area]

Time spent yapping is time not spent on becoming familiar with the site layout and reading some things.

[danny_galaga]

Was easy for me in Australia. Many cabs in the 80's here used Sanwa sticks. They still make them, they are good quality, and cheap (",)