Vigo's SNES. Classic console gaming on any TV.

[Vigo]

Part 1 - The Components (sorry if this gets lengthy)

OK! I don't know where exactly to begin on this one, it is not a "cabinet arcade" project, but I think it is closely related enough to post it here. I'm around 85% done, and this has actually been more than a year in the making, mostly because my time has been very tight. I am hoping that posting this project will be the push I need to finish. So here it is from the beginning:

After I had finished my first MAME arcade machine, I came to a realization. I found that while I loved playing the arcade games, I just didn't use the console games I had put on at all. Soon, the console games on my arcade machine fell into disuse,  standing at an arcade machine to play them just felt "weird". I vowed to rectify this issue.

I had made a mental list of the things consoles had back in my childhood that I missed today:

• Simplicity. Part of the genuine beauty of the old console systems was that there were no moving parts, no noisy cooling fans, no hard drives...you cold drop them off of a 3 story building, and they wouldn't break. Light, portable, durable.
  
  
• I remember the days when I could just bring my Nintendo over to a friends house and plug it in to any tv, kick back on the couch, and play. I think something is lost huddled around an arcade cabinet for 5 hours playing through River City Ransom.
  
  
• The controls. This is the big one for me. I love arcade controls, but I cannot do well on a game I grew up using a game pad. Arcade controls just didn't always feel natural, and neither does a modern gamepad. There was a reason I never used my NES advantage.
  
  

One day, while letting my mind wander at work, like I always do, I had an epiphany. All I had to do was make another MAME machine, and put it inside here:

Here is the concept. Put a mini computer inside a Super NES. Have it play MAME and console games. Have it use the original controllers. Have it be able to simply plug into any HD TV through HDMI port. Have it be all solid state with no moving parts. Easy Right? 

So why the Super Nintendo? Mostly because of this:



I consider the SNES gamepad to be pretty much the pinnacle of old system controllers. Plenty of buttons, but not confusing. Fit nice in the hand, and was a widely used control layout. Familiar controller, and you can buy them easily for dirt cheap. I can easily play NES games on it as well.

Still looks easy, right? Well, for a wife-set budget of $200, it took some thinking...and very, very frugal shopping. 

Also, i can't find many people who have done a project like this....I saw car-puters and media stations, but nobody was making specific game consoles, and nobody had a budget of $200. I already had an extra SNES and controllers to use, but nothing else. So starting from scratch, I looked for motherboards...

I ended up buying the Zotac Ion ITX-C-U for a many reasons. First, it didn't need any moving fans to cool. This baby runs perfectly silent, and will not overheat. Second, it was a tiny itx motherboard that did not need an internal power supply. It had an external one like laptops have. It will keep the system light, and keep the heat outside of the console. Also, it had HDMI output, which is a must. Last, I found it for about $90 after rebate. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500028



Now, I needed to figure out that pesky controller problem, there was no way around it, I had to have original controllers, they needed to be able to plug in and out just like an old console. I found this on ebay for $18:



Now the only two things I still needed was ram and a hard drive. I bought a gig of ram for $34, that left me with....$38 for a solid state hard drive....       

(for those who have not shopped for solid state hard drives, they are always in the $75+ range)

I looked for days and days. I finally came up with this baby:


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22597

$19 of cheap solid state goodness. You just need to supply you own SD card. After pondering on it's usability, I finally pulled the trigger. Combo that with a sweet deal my wife found on a 16gb SD card , and I am sitting right in budget. I have had a few random expenses from this project so far, and I might have a couple more, but nothing too big. All the core components I found for a pretty cheap price.

I am further along on my project, but I need some sleep so I will write more later.

To be continued, same bat time, same bat channel!

[njay]

wow pretty cool.

i am interested how you are gonna fit all the stuff inside !

 

[BobA]

Very interesting start.   I will be watching to see how it all goes together. 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I know it's almost half your budget, but you're really going to regret it if you don't add one of these to your set up:
http://stoneagegamer.com/retrode.aspx

(:

[thatitalian]

I wonder how you would integrate that into a frontend... (the above)

I assume you want to make it look like a snes completely and therefore will be creating a snes style frontend?

[Vigo]

Thanks guys! I will hopefully have more time to post another section of my progress tonight. It is definitely a doable project, and if anyone else is looking to divert some of their console gaming away from their arcade cabinet, this might be a good option.

wow pretty cool.

i am interested how you are gonna fit all the stuff inside !

 

Well, I'm interested in that answer as well! I have fit the components inside a SNES, and in theory, it will work. However, I am planning on using the power and reset buttons as a power button and an "exit game" button. I am running out of room!  I am going to have to get creative...

I know it's almost half your budget, but you're really going to regret it if you don't add one of these to your set up:
http://stoneagegamer.com/retrode.aspx

(:

That is a really cool little device. It might not fit in my budget, but maybe I could allocate that to a "fun toys" fund at some point! 

I wonder how you would integrate that into a frontend... (the above)

I assume you want to make it look like a snes completely and therefore will be creating a snes style frontend?

Yep! I want it as SNES'y as possible. I might give the machine a paint job, purple and beige are not the most rockin' colors out there. The controllers will all be 100% original though. That way, if one controller breaks, I can get another one from a thrift store for $2.

I have already been mulling over FE design's and I think I might want to go either a SNES theme, or maybe just an late 80's early 90's theme just to get super campy.



AHH! My eyes!!! Maybe I just stick with a SNES theme....

[BadMouth]

Since you didn't mention it, I'm guessing you never saw Burger King Diamond's NES -
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105479.0

I would welcome the extra buttons on the SNES controller, but I had a Sega Genesis as a kid, so I'd have to go that route. 
(it would be almost too easy if you used the big old first generation Sega CD that sat underneath the Genesis)

[Donkbaca]

A couple of observations:

16gb is not very much space, I think you would have to limit the machine to just old school console emu's since the mame romset alone is like 26 gigs.

Have you looked at these:

http://www.retrousb.com/

they may be easier to integrate in an authentic way, or if you are more savy you could do instal a 4nes chip:
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/4nes4snes/index_en.php

[Donkbaca]

Or, maybe an easier way is to take the USB port you have, and then solder the existing SNES ports to it.  On second thought, that is what I would do.  THen you could use the existing ports on the SNES

[Vigo]

Since you didn't mention it, I'm guessing you never saw Burger King Diamond's NES -
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105479.0

I would welcome the extra buttons on the SNES controller, but I had a Sega Genesis as a kid, so I'd have to go that route. 
(it would be almost too easy if you used the big old first generation Sega CD that sat underneath the Genesis)

Yep, I saw that, It's very cool! It sounded like more of a whole case mod with NES controllers. (Since it included DVD burner, WiFi, large Hard Drive). It seemed like Burger King Diamond is making a whole media center in an NES, which is def. very cool! I guess my project is a very strict console player, without any moving parts, no keyboard, no mouse, and it will boot right into the FE. Pretty much a console with all the games built in. I can just bring it over to a friends house, plug it in, turn it on, and start playing right away.

Yeah, I have Sega games for my system, and the Genesis had a different school of thought on the button layout. Much more arcade styled. While I can play an NES game seamlessly on this machine, the sega games feel just a tad off. I was thinking about going with Sega for a while, but I only had 1 sega console lying around as opposed to two SNES's. I am also more used to and comfortable with the SNES controller. (Yes, I'm a console hoarder)

[Vigo]

Or, maybe an easier way is to take the USB port you have, and then solder the existing SNES ports to it.  On second thought, that is what I would do.  THen you could use the existing ports on the SNES

Donkbaka, I don't want to completely spoil everything I have been doing until I get the rest of my progress posted, but you are very spot on with what I did. 

[Vigo]

A couple of observations:

16gb is not very much space, I think you would have to limit the machine to just old school console emu's since the mame romset alone is like 26 gigs.

Thats the plan. I currently have put together a pretty complete set of NES, SNES, Genesis, Master system, and GBA roms. (I kept English and English translated roms, removed alternate versions. These def. fit in under 10 gb. I am also going to put in a select set of C64 roms. As far as Mame, I am going to probably only put in about 50-100 of my favorites that I wouldn't mind playing on a console. If I still have enough room after that. I will see about throwing in more.

[Donkbaca]

You sir are a genius.  I hope this works well for you and you do a good job documenting it so I can blatantly rip off the idea in the future

[Vigo]

You sir are a genius.  I hope this works well for you and you do a good job documenting it so I can blatantly rip off the idea in the future

Hey, Thanks! I take that as a great compliment! Feel free to rip this idea off anytime! 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

You might think about going with something like PuppyLinux for the OS, since it can be made to be ridiculously small:
http://www.puppylinux.org/


There is an emulation specific variant called PuppyArcade:
http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm

The whole OS+Emulators comes down to like 109 megs, and boots embarrassingly fast.

[Don]

I think you'll be interested in these videos if you havn't seen them, especially the placement of the cd drive! 



and

[Vigo]

You might think about going with something like PuppyLinux for the OS, since it can be made to be ridiculously small:
http://www.puppylinux.org/


There is an emulation specific variant called PuppyArcade:
http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm

The whole OS+Emulators comes down to like 109 megs, and boots embarrassingly fast.

cotmm68030, thanks for tuning me into puppylinux. I never heard of it before. I have been testing out several minature operating systems that were buggy in their own way. I finally nlited XP to use. I thing I am going to stick with XP, because I am already far enough along. I do have another project in mind for the future, after this one is done, and this might fit the bill perfectly!!!

[Vigo]

I think you'll be interested in these videos if you havn't seen them, especially the placement of the cd drive! 

I have seen a couple photos of this mod, but never saw the videos. Thanks for posting them! Yeah, the CD drive is absolutely brilliant! Heck, this whole thing is brilliant. I won't be installing any drives, but I think I will be consulting this vid to copy some techniques used here. 

I'm really toting around the simplicity of my machine as a virtue, but it is really hard to do that while I am drooling over some of these amazing mods!

[Don]

I use an old laptop i have as a sort of gaming console for games that don't suit the arcade setup but have been thinking of doing a project similar to this for awhile!

I have a 'Xbox wireless gaming receiver' so i can use up to 4 of my xbox 360 wireless pads. Might be worth checking out for this project, i got some Asian rip-off for like $10 and works great!

P.S: heres the site for that snes mod, has some info that might come in useful!
http://www.asobitech.com/remix/aaSNES1/

[ccmathome]

I did one of them
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100641.msg1064436#msg1064436

I got A/V using the original snes a/v cable my motherboard had tv out but it looked like crap. I was using I think xpadder to setup select to exit after holding it in for 5 seconds

[notroubleclubber]

fantastic - will be watching this with interest. I wonder where i can get a snes in the uk?? lol

[yotsuya]

Looks great! Good luck!

[Vigo]

Thanks, everybody! I appreciate all the compliments and support!  I was hoping to get another update post in, but I was pretty exhausted yesterday.

I use an old laptop i have as a sort of gaming console for games that don't suit the arcade setup but have been thinking of doing a project similar to this for awhile!

I have a 'Xbox wireless gaming receiver' so i can use up to 4 of my xbox 360 wireless pads. Might be worth checking out for this project, i got some Asian rip-off for like $10 and works great!

P.S: heres the site for that snes mod, has some info that might come in useful!
http://www.asobitech.com/remix/aaSNES1/

Donny, thanks for the aaSNES link. I found it interesting that he had no problem soldiering directly to the motherboard, yet was mounting everything with legos. He had a unique perspective on how to fit everything, but it worked! As far as gamepads go, I am dead set on having original SNES controllers for player 1 and 2. I am thinking about adding a player 3 and 4 wirelessly by buying a set of wireless gamepads, and putting the reciever inside the SNES. This will be an upgrade that I will add after the fact though, as I have already hit my budget.  Thanks for the idea of using xbox controllers, that might be a pretty good idea! For the time being, I think I will just have a cheap set of USB gamepads to do my bidding!

I know there are not many 4 player SNES games, but there are some, there are also 4 player NES games, MAME games, and genesis games I can use it for. I am also thinking about using additional buttons on the player 3 controller as function buttons (Save/load, fast forward, rewind etc.)

I did one of them
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100641.msg1064436#msg1064436

I got A/V using the original snes a/v cable my motherboard had tv out but it looked like crap. I was using I think xpadder to setup select to exit after holding it in for 5 seconds

Thanks for showing me your project! I was thinking about going with good old A/V, but I am seeing that a number of TV's don't even support native 640X480 anymore. I am going to gut the AV slot, and put an HDMI port in the same spot.

Thanks for the xpadder idea. I might give that a go! 

[BurgerKingDiamond]

I was going to post a link to my NES, but I see someone else already has... I'm glad to know that a few people checked it out . I am impressed that you are doing this for around $200 ,my budget was definitely significantly higher (although it wasn't a concern, so I didn't really care). Also it can't be easy to fit it all inside a SNES, those are way less box-ie than the NES, which I had some trouble with...

Yep, I saw that, It's very cool! It sounded like more of a whole case mod with NES controllers. (Since it included DVD burner, WiFi, large Hard Drive). It seemed like Burger King Diamond is making a whole media center in an NES, which is def. very cool! I guess my project is a very strict console player, without any moving parts, no keyboard, no mouse, and it will boot right into the FE. Pretty much a console with all the games built in. I can just bring it over to a friends house, plug it in, turn it on, and start playing right away.

I really don't see much of a difference between our projects, besides that fact that I added some "extras". I really couldn't resist the urge to put a DVD drive in the cart slot because it just seemed so perfect. However, in essence our projects are the same thing, and mine is just as portable, all you need is the power brick and hdmi cable. This may sound defensive, but I don't mean to be. I'm just saying that you are also doing a case mod, just a more stripped down version. The simplicity sounds cool though.

How are you gonna connect the controller while still maintaining the original plug? The way I did it worked well, but it requred me to sacrifice two NES controllers for their plugs, but they were already broken anyway.

Btw, in the end it turned out to be kind of a waste. I got the urge to do it, and spent a fair amount of money, and I don't use it much. With the two cabs for gaming, and a laptop for internet it just doesn't get much love. I use it for Netflix, but I could just as easily hook up my laptop through the hdmi... It's kind of a decoration piece at this point.

[Vigo]

Hey BK Diamond! I know exactly what you are saying about our projects being similar. It doesn't sound defensive at all. I guess in my own mind, my project sounds leagues different. I see how the difference is generally only in concept where mine is being simplified to only one basic feature.

I was really drooling over your project though. (and I do love the DVD drive in the slot). It's really too bad that yours isn't getting a whole lot of use.  I was really thinking about making a fully functioning computer for my TV at one point. I was going to get a external toaster drive for it and start ripping my CD and DVD collection onto Hard Drives, then I would just use it as a movie player and music system. Well, maybe when I have some cash to my name again.

As far and the controller plug issue, I was lucky enough that the USB controller adapter I bought was easy enough to de-case and soldier directly to. I am going to go ahead and post the next part of my project, so you can see the detail of that work. 

[Vigo]

Part 2

OK, here is how I adapted the existing SNES controls into USB. Opening up the SNES, there is a front plate for the controls attached by a ribbon cable. I removed the ribbon, and the controller ports are left soldiered on to a circuit board.



I simply too my desoldiering tool and removed the soldier point at each point that coincided with a controller port on the board. There are seven points for each port.



Voila! Now for the USB Adapter. Here is what it looked like in packaging.



Now I decased it and desoldiered the existing ports on the converter.



Now I am ready to add wires between the two...







There it is. I now have a usb plug for the existing ports of the SNES.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

sweet. now usb to the MOBO internal slot and you're done.

[Seith]

Great work!  Will be following this.

[atomikbohm]

... what no more updates?  I'm crazy interested to see how this turned out.  Update please 

[Mikezilla]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- Vigo I just stumbled onto this thread. How are things turning out?! Sounds/looks like an awesome project. I agree, I think the SNES controller is the best, that and the PS2 controller. Mostly the SNES one though since I love me some Nintendo 


Please update with that you are are doing! Cant wait to see it! 

[BurgerKingDiamond]

what the hell is taking so long???

[mattmayhem]

I too am curious as to how this is coming along. Looks great so far!

[Vigo]

Hey! Update on the way!   

Thanks for the support everybody! I have been working on my SNES this weekend, and am ready for another update! I haven't been able to work on this project for quite a while since I have been busy with preparations for baby I have on the way. It's probably only going to be a few days now until he is here!  

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- Vigo I just stumbled onto this thread. How are things turning out?! Sounds/looks like an awesome project. I agree, I think the SNES controller is the best, that and the PS2 controller. Mostly the SNES one though since I love me some Nintendo  


Please update with that you are are doing! Cant wait to see it!  

Thanks Mike!  

Yeah, the PS2 controller is awesome as well, Sony was smart enough to take the SNES controller design and improve on it. My only beef with the controller is that it seemed much harder for me to remember the button names. I guess I have a harder time with shapes than letters, but back in the day I would have to look at the controller every time it told me to hit "Square" or "Triangle". When all is done with the project, I plan on making player 3 and 4 to be wireless PS2 style controllers. It might just be tempting to use them for player 1 and 2 though.  


OK, on to making my next project update!

[Vigo]

Part 3

Controller Gameport

OK! Let me just pick up where I left off with the USB gameports. I have already soldered the SNES ports on to the USB SNES controller device. Now, I need to change the external USB port to an internal USB plug. These are the four wires for the existing USB plug.



I gutted an old computer case I had and took the wiring out. To connect to the internal USB, I needed a connector like this:



I found the old case had an audio connector that was identical to this kind of USB connector, so I just took out the existing wiring, and soldered it to the gamepad board.

I found there is a nice groove on the SNES port that the gamepad board fits snugly into. I popped it in with a little hot glue, and now the board is mounted and out of the way.



Now, I just added a LED to fill in the old SNES slot. I stuck with a red LED for tradition sake. If I decide to give the case a paint job, I might change the color on the LED. Now, the entire gameport is complete.  




SNES case

So the SNES case uses their own special set of security screw heads. I have a bunch of security screw bits, but the set does not include the Nintendo bits. Luckily, After exhausting methods I heard about for getting these things off (like the melted bic pen trick) I found that there is a metric socket that will turn these screws pretty well. I was very close to cutting the case open. I am glad I was feeling patient that day.

So here is the inside of a SNES:



  Even by 1991 standards, that's a whole lot of wasted space! I guess it was no surprise, but it seems like making a video game system compact wasn't very trendy back in the day.

I pulled out it's guts, and got to work:



So, I'll start from the top (literally...as in the top of the case  )

There was a lot of extra plastic around the eject button area, as well as a few unnecessary screw mounts. I had to lop that plastic off before even starting:



I wanted to make the power and reset switches fully functional. The reset switch was a tight squeeze, it was competing for space with the motherboard RAM. I had to make the switch as far towards the front as possible. Using a cue from how the SNES rest switch was always set up, I used a spring to make a reverse switch. I melted in a screw for the spring to latch on to. (and reinforced it with hot glue)



I decided to use the type of switch that many BYOAC'ers have lying around, arcade cherry switches. I hot glued these on, and soldered some more pc case connections to make them plug in to the motherboard easily.



Now, I just need a spot to put the SD card hard drive, and there is some dead space lingering around. Since it does not get very hot, I was able to just hot glue the card right on to the case. (I never knew hot glue was so handy)

Now, for those who didn't notice, there are two giant gaping holes in the top of the case. One for the cartridge slot, and the other for the eject button. I wont be putting either of these back in, rather, I will be using the holes for ventilation.

I scrounged up all the speaker grating I could find....



...and mounted it to the case. I put some black backing in at as well, so dust wont get in so easily.



There! The lid is finished!  



OK! That's it for tonight. I'll try to add more soon!

[BurgerKingDiamond]

Looks nice man. Hot glue is definitely indispensable. It makes a really strong connection, but you can easily peel it off if you need to.

[Mikezilla]

Dude. I dont even know where to begin to tell you how cool this is.  I wish I could do something like that.

Orrr....

Pay someone else to do it! 

[BurgerKingDiamond]

Dude. I dont even know where to begin to tell you how cool this is.  I wish I could do something like that.

Orrr....

Pay someone else to do it! 

hmm. After I built mine I thought of offering my services to others. But it's pretty time consuming, and didn't think anybody would be willing to spend the money to make it worth it. You should try yourself though. It really isn't that hard. I managed to figure it out and I'd never built a computer before. The biggest thing is planning so that you know your components will fit in your console.

[Vigo]

Looks nice man. Hot glue is definitely indispensable. It makes a really strong connection, but you can easily peel it off if you need to.

Thanks BKDiamond. My hot glue gun has had quite a few years of disuse, I guess I never saw a plethora of uses for it when I have all sorts of epoxies and glues at my disposal. It's really nice to have to be able to remove the stuff for when I screw up. My outlook on the hot glue has changed. 

Dude. I dont even know where to begin to tell you how cool this is.  I wish I could do something like that.

Orrr....

Pay someone else to do it! 

hmm. After I built mine I thought of offering my services to others. But it's pretty time consuming, and didn't think anybody would be willing to spend the money to make it worth it. You should try yourself though. It really isn't that hard. I managed to figure it out and I'd never built a computer before. The biggest thing is planning so that you know your components will fit in your console.

Thanks Mike, I really appreciate it! I would be happy to build one for you man....but I am afraid the wife would not approve of me redoing this project all over again. She's counting down until I am actually finished with mine.

BurgerKingDiamond is right, it's not too hard of a project. It is time consuming though, and most of the time is in the planning stages. You can feel free to copy my design to the letter if you want. It could cut back on the planning stage. I personally appreciate that it does not take the amount of work area that an arcade cabinet takes. 

[BurgerKingDiamond]

so what are you doing about the I/O's at the back of the motherboard?

[Vigo]

Mostly just blocking them right out. I know my system has its limitations with a 16gb HD, so I am just not attempting to make all the ports available. I will just be running cables to the open spots on the existing SNES back panel. My mobo, which uses an external power brick, will just be attached in place of the SNES DC input. I'm gonna be cabling out the HDMI to the old A/V socket as well.

I haven't decided if I want any USB ports mounted, since I am thinking that I can just have the wireless receivers for the player 3 and 4 gamepads connected internally. I already have a wireless mouse receiver inside, and that is working pretty slick.

I am thinking I might also wire the audio input to the back of the SNES in case in case I run into any "video only" HDMI situations, and need to plug the audio in separately (like a to a computer monitor or TV with a unique home theater setup).