Someone call the cops! I stole a Jukebox!! MAGNETS??? [03.05.2009]

[javeryh]

I went to Home Depot a few weeks back and asked for a j-roller and the clerk told me there was no such thing and I made it up in my head.  "If it is not in aisle 10 with the paint rollers then it doesn't exist."  I was told the same thing about the knob I was looking for to make my circle cutting jig - it must be how they train their employees if they don't know where soemthing is located.  Anyway, I'm on the lookout for one.

Let's talk about the lamination process.  How do you guys think I should go about this?  I plan to cut the sheet of laminate a few inches oversize, apply glue to the mating surfaces, wait the 20 minutes for the glue to dry and then with the jukebox standing straight up I plan to apply the laminate in the center and work my way down both sides.  I will be adding a minimum of 2 band clamps around the thing because I'm paranoid.

Alternatively, I could try to apply the laminate on the bottom of one side and then come over the top and down the other side.  I would have to tip the jukebox shell on its side to do it this way, I think. 

Thoughts?   

[leapinlew]

wait the 20 minutes for the glue to dry

I use non-flammable contact cement from DAP (see pic). Wait till both sides are clear and non-tacky. 20 minutes may not be too enough, or it could be too much. I've had it take up to 3 hours(!) on cool humid days.

[mountain]

I went to Home Depot a few weeks back and asked for a j-roller and the clerk told me there was no such thing and I made it up in my head.

IMO, never ask for help from these guys unless it is absolutely neccessary. I think I found mine at Lowes BTW

Alternatively, I could try to apply the laminate on the bottom of one side and then come over the top and down the other side.  I would have to tip the jukebox shell on its side to do it this way, I think. 

I started on one side and rolled the entire juke over the cut piece of laminate. I then stood it up and rolled it out starting from the center, working my way down the sides.

wait the 20 minutes for the glue to dry

I use non-flammable contact cement from DAP (see pic). Wait till both sides are clear and non-tacky. 20 minutes may not be too enough, or it could be too much. I've had it take up to 3 hours(!) on cool humid days.

That must have been the problem when I tried that stuff. I didn't have any luck and took it back half empty and got my money back  I always use Weldwood original. I like the smell 

[javeryh]

Alternatively, I could try to apply the laminate on the bottom of one side and then come over the top and down the other side.  I would have to tip the jukebox shell on its side to do it this way, I think. 

I started on one side and rolled the entire juke over the cut piece of laminate. I then stood it up and rolled it out starting from the center, working my way down the sides.

Thanks.  I'll probably try it like that then.  I think it will be easier to apply it nice and flat if I do it that way.

wait the 20 minutes for the glue to dry

I use non-flammable contact cement from DAP (see pic). Wait till both sides are clear and non-tacky. 20 minutes may not be too enough, or it could be too much. I've had it take up to 3 hours(!) on cool humid days.

That must have been the problem when I tried that stuff. I didn't have any luck and took it back half empty and got my money back  I always use Weldwood original. I like the smell 

I have the original -



I didn't have time before work this morning to check out my glue-up since I had to go to the city.  I'm probably not going to get home in time tonight to do any more work on it but I'll at least see how it dried and hopefully snap a few pics.

[javeryh]

Some more super exciting progress...



After finishing the monitor mount the last thing left to do on the front panel was to take care of the volume knob area. I cut the circle out behind the volume knob where the circuit board of the Griffin PowerMate will be installed using my drill and a foerstner bit. I also managed to remove 1/8" of material around the top of volume knob using my circle cutting jig.

I'm a little nervous about how everything is going to fit together. The cutout for the circuit board intrudes on where the monitor will sit as you can see. I cut the hole 1/8" oversized and the area for the monitor may be a bit oversized too so hopefully there is room for everything but it is going to be tight. I guess I'll know more when I actually try to stuff everything in there.





Next up is starting construction of the back panel. I've got a couple of cool ideas for it but it shouldn't take nearly as long as the front panel did (I hope)... The plan is to put a vent on the top with the power button placed just like mountain did.  I bought a stainless steel Belkin power button for $10 - it's pretty neat.  There are several ports I want on the bottom though and I'm not sure how to go about mounting them while allowing for the panel to be removed if I need to do some maintenance.  I want the plug to be in the bottom corner (and removable like the one on Bella's Arcade) and I've been thinking about incorporating some of the frontx ports along the bottom too - I just want it to look clean back there. 

Finally, I think I'm going to try and use magnets to hold the panel in place... maybe some of those catches that cabinets use where you press down and the panel pops off... I don't know yet... I have to factor in the slot for the t-molding and the panel needs to be thin.  I'm planning on using 1/8" thick hardboard + 1mm for the laminate.  I'll know more once the laminate arrives and I can actually make the panel and go from there...   

[Franco B]

Awesome work buddy!

That looks like some real intricate work going on, I can imagine some of it took ages.

Im making a I/O panel for the back of mine at the moment which is holding me up for the rest of the build. I should hopefully get it done over the next couple of days.

Keep it up buddy, its really looking good

[javeryh]

Awesome work buddy!

That looks like some real intricate work going on, I can imagine some of it took ages.

Im making a I/O panel for the back of mine at the moment which is holding me up for the rest of the build. I should hopefully get it done over the next couple of days.

Keep it up buddy, its really looking good

Ooohh I can't wait to see your I/O panel.  I think I want to incorporate a power plug, 2 or 3 USB ports, an ethernet port, headphone port, the red/white audio ports and a toggle switch for interior speakers vs. external ones.  Frontx has most of this stuff but it is expensive and I'm not sure how well I'll be able to integrate it into the back panel so it doesn't look tacked on.

[Franco B]

Im going for two USBs, RCAs (audio L/R), two female 15 pin d subs (to connect two CPs) and a modified start button in a CNC milled ally plate. Im going to have a power plug some where else on the juke.

Im not going to go for an ethernet port as ill mass transfer MP3s by a external HDD and im going to have a wireless card for network connection. I was going to add a headphone socket but I can always use a RCA>3.5mm adapter for that, I thought I would keep it (fairly) simple.

I would show you a sneaky peak but I don't want to clutter up your thread (and I want to make sure it turns out ok first! ) 

[javeryh]

Now I'm obsessed with getting an I/O panel made for this thing!   

Here is a little more detail on the bevel polishing process even though everyone has seen the results already.  The goal was to get it to match the front surface once the protective paper was removed.  I think I got pretty close:



The first thing I did was cut all of the sandpaper into 1"x2" rectangles and put them in separate ziplock bags to keep things organized. I used 400 grit, 600 grit, 1000 grit and 1500 grit sandpaper for this process. Using the smaller pieces gives me better control and allows me to go slowly (thanks for the tip mountain!).

I started off with 400 grit sandpaper to smooth out the pits left behind by the chamfer bit (at first I tried 600 grit but it wasn't rough enough and I thought I'd never get it looking good).  I sanded pretty slowly and I tried the best could to keep the sandpaper flat against the beveled edge of the Plexiglas.  It was tricky but managable. Once I got it smooth and there were no visible pits left behind, I switched to the 600 grit sandpaper followed by the 1000 grit sandpaper and finally the 1500 grit sandpaper repeating the process each time. After the sanding was finished, I used the Novus 3-step polish system to really make it shine.

Here is an odd shot of the bottom of the monitor opening as well as the speaker opening:



Here again is the "before" and "after" shot of the bevel around the volume knob. You can really see here how much better it looks after sanding and polishing it:



This whole process was very time consuming but at least I was able to do it with the TV on in the background and not outside in the garage. 

More later.   

[Franco B]

Oh the joys of polishing 

Ive worn the skin away from my fingers and drew blood quite a few times whilst polishing bits for my cocktail. You want to try the same process with stainless. 

Franco's Top Tip of the Day™ (for one day only!): It doesn't really apply in your situation as your only polishing a lip but if you are ever polishing a larger area it is a good idea to change the direction of polishing 90 degrees in between grades of grit.  Using that method it is much easier to see if you have removed the grooves from the previous grade and can save time rather than back tracking down the grades. It also helps to make sure you are polishing the item evenly.

[javeryh]

That is a great tip.  As I was polishing I kept wanting to not go along the edge but there was really no other way to do it and keep everything even.  I had to go back to the 400 grit multiple times in different spots to get it just right...

[javeryh]

OK, I asked in the main forum but I thought I'd ask here too...

Does anyone know where I can get one of these:



but with an end like this that is meant to be mounted on a panel or something:



I'd really love to see one with a switch on there too... I'm trying to extend the plug from a power supply to an exterior panel.

Thanks!!!

[mountain]

Why not just chop a cord and wire it to a power inlet module?

[javeryh]

Why not just chop a cord and wire it to a power inlet module?

I did that on Bella's Arcade but I didn't know what it was called!  I'm trying to do whatever is easiest (and safest).  Do you have a link or something where I could buy this thing?  It worked great last time:

[mountain]

Scroll down to the middle of the page,

 

[Franco B]

Good work mountain.

You can also buy the male plugs on there own like [these] and then add your own cable to suit. I found some nice stainless armoured cable for my cocktail but unsurprising I have struggled to find any pink 3 core. I do have a load of blue 3 core cable if thats of any use to you.

[leapinlew]

I like power entry modules, but I've pretty much ditched them and started running the cord out through a hole and cover it with a washer like I did on the tempest cabinet. Quick, easy and cheap.

[richms]

Ooohh I can't wait to see your I/O panel.  I think I want to incorporate a power plug, 2 or 3 USB ports, an ethernet port, headphone port, the red/white audio ports and a toggle switch for interior speakers vs. external ones.  Frontx has most of this stuff but it is expensive and I'm not sure how well I'll be able to integrate it into the back panel so it doesn't look tacked on.

Since the intel board has HD audio, you need to get a HD audio capable jack if you want the headphone swithcing to work. Older AC97 wiring will not allow the "front" header to switch off the output from the rear jack when you plug headphones into it.

I had enough trouble finding a case with a proper front jack on it when building my last PC, they are all still AC97 wiring

[javeryh]

Ooohh I can't wait to see your I/O panel.  I think I want to incorporate a power plug, 2 or 3 USB ports, an ethernet port, headphone port, the red/white audio ports and a toggle switch for interior speakers vs. external ones.  Frontx has most of this stuff but it is expensive and I'm not sure how well I'll be able to integrate it into the back panel so it doesn't look tacked on.

Since the intel board has HD audio, you need to get a HD audio capable jack if you want the headphone swithcing to work. Older AC97 wiring will not allow the "front" header to switch off the output from the rear jack when you plug headphones into it.

I had enough trouble finding a case with a proper front jack on it when building my last PC, they are all still AC97 wiring

Got any idea where I can find the right jack?

lew:  I'm guessing you had to splice the wire behind the panel to get it in there, right?  That it a nice and clean solution.

[leapinlew]

lew:  I'm guessing you had to splice the wire behind the panel to get it in there, right?  That it a nice and clean solution.

Yes. I used some shrink tubing to clean it up.

[richms]

I had enough trouble finding a case with a proper front jack on it when building my last PC, they are all still AC97 wiring

Got any idea where I can find the right jack?

No idea sorry. There are

If you use a AC97 frontpanel jack, you will not get it cutting off the rear jack when you plug something into it. I guess you could just wire the amplifier into the front panel jack directly and forget about the rear ones on the motherboard, or just put a switch to turn the amp off that you use when using headphones.

I havent seen bare jacks available with the isolated sense switch on them to let you roll your own either which is a shame.

[javeryh]

Couldn't I run the headphone jack from the jack on the speaker bar (or will having something plugged in there mute the speakers)?  I'm going to plan for the headphone jack but maybe I'll have to solve the problem at a later date or something...

I've almost finalized the I/O panel that I'm thinking about.  If I can get it made it should look pretty nice.  We shall see...

[richms]

It will be a mechanical switch, so the presense of a plug in the jack on the speakerbar will mute it, so you could use it if its accessable, but chances are it wont be.

The good thing with HD audio is that you can set it so the second output is independant of the rear output, that way you could just put a toggle in whatever software to change the output device to switch between headphones and the speakers if you cant get jack switching to work. That also gives you independant volume controls over the 2 devices as well.

[DaOld Man]

Hey there JH..
Maybe Im missing something on this headphone jack thing, but I intend to use one similar to what mountain used. It is a 1/8" jack that has switches in it that cut out the speaker bar when you plug in headphones, or a 1/8" to RCA jacks adapter (to plug in a stereo).

Check this out


EDIT: PS... Your work is outstanding!

[javeryh]

Thanks guys.  I'm not sure what audio/headphone issues I'm going to have with this motherboard, if any, because I haven't hooked anything up yet.  I am not that computer literate so I'm not even sure I can follow what richms is trying to tell me other than the headphone jack I want to extend from the motherboard to the back panel of my jukebox might not work.  Maybe this will help - I'm planning to run one of THESE from the motherboard to the rear panel of my jukebox.  I will definitely be asking about it once I get a little further along!   

[mountain]

James,
You shouldn't have any issues with the audio if you plan on installing a switch between internal and external audio like I did on my dad's juke. I think the issue that richms raised addresses a potential issue with the headphone jacks that are built into speakers. They are designed to cut the audio so it only plays through the headphones when plugged in. The way I did it, the switch directs the audio signal to either the internal speakers or the RCAs/headphone jack (which are wired in parallel). So, when the switch is flipped to the headphones the audio is "muted" at the internal speakers and only the headphones work.

[javeryh]

James,
You shouldn't have any issues with the audio if you plan on installing a switch between internal and external audio like I did on my dad's juke. I think the issue that richms raised addresses a potential issue with the headphone jacks that are built into speakers. They are designed to cut the audio so it only plays through the headphones when plugged in. The way I did it, the switch directs the audio signal to either the internal speakers or the RCAs/headphone jack (which are wired in parallel). So, when the switch is flipped to the headphones the audio is "muted" at the internal speakers and only the headphones work.

I see... so you have the RCA connectors and speaker bar wired in parallel to the same audio port on the back of your motherboard and you switch between the two using the DPDT switch, correct?  If I wanted to wire them in parallel but without the switch I presume it would still work except when I plug it into an external receiver or something sound would still come out of the speaker bar as well as the RCA cables, right?

Also, how does this affect headphone use?  I think the headphones are a separate port on the back of the motherboard.  I guess the concern is that by installing the extender cable from frontx (linked in a previous post) it would somehow mute the audio out port (to the RCA ports and speaker bar) at all times?  Could I wire all three in parallel to the same audio out port on the motherboard?

I've attached a pic to show the two scenarios I'm considering.  In each one I could set up a switch to toggle between everything circled in red or leave the switch out and just have them all working at once, I guess.  Any thoughts?   

[Martijn]

James,
You shouldn't have any issues with the audio if you plan on installing a switch between internal and external audio like I did on my dad's juke. I think the issue that richms raised addresses a potential issue with the headphone jacks that are built into speakers. They are designed to cut the audio so it only plays through the headphones when plugged in. The way I did it, the switch directs the audio signal to either the internal speakers or the RCAs/headphone jack (which are wired in parallel). So, when the switch is flipped to the headphones the audio is "muted" at the internal speakers and only the headphones work.

How does this cutting out audio work? Is there another pin on the ground line pin that, when connected to ground cuts out audio?

[mountain]

Not sure what you are asking. Are you refering to the way I wired mine up or the way the headphone jacks that mute the speakers work?

[richms]

How does this cutting out audio work? Is there another pin on the ground line pin that, when connected to ground cuts out audio?

On AC97 motherboards the audio runs thru the front jack, which then passes it back down 2 more wires back to the motherboard and to the back jack, so the front jack mechanically interuppts the signal to the rear one.

The problem with that is that only the front main channels are interupted, and the cables on most cases are unshielded crap so they pick up loads of noise to the rear jack so it sounds really bad. The software doesnt know that the jack is in use to mute the rear and center speakers on a 5.1 or to change to a stereo output so you have to do that yourself.

HD audio has a jack sense line that an isolated switch on the jack closes when a plug is in, that then pops up an alert to ask what you plugged in and the rear jack is muted (or not as the case may be) via software, so you can still run the front and rear independant so like with a game running you have the gamesounds/music on your big-ass 5.1 speakers, and teamspeak on the headset plugged into the front.

Any mechanical or simple switch in the audio path needs to be carefully done so you dont introduce a crapload of noise to the signal, you are putting it really close to power cables and also there is a lot of RF noise inside a computer. Not a problem going to headphones since they are low impedance, but to the amp in the soundbar it will be since that will amplify all the noise it gets.

If I was doing this I would leave the soundbar connected to the rear and excend the front jack to the case for headphones and just disable jack detection and toggle it myself, or power off the soundbar when not wanting it.

[Martijn]

Not sure what you are asking. Are you refering to the way I wired mine up or the way the headphone jacks that mute the speakers work?

the way the headphone jack mutes. i have made an externa headphone jack connecting to the logitech set, but this way it would always mute, so i wanted to remove the switching from the logitech set and somehow build in into the external jack.

other option would be just to connect the external jack to the tv set and mute the logotech set with the volume
but then i cant control the tv headphone jack level ( only with remote, i have build the remote sensor eye outside of the cab)

[richms]

Or build a headphone amplifier for the headphone jack, which has a volume control on it.

There are heaps if you google for cmoy headphone amp, and it will have the power to drive headphones properly which is sometimes lacking on motherboards outputs.

[javeryh]

I hope I can figure this all out.  Can I assume the diagrams I posted earlier are completely wrong?  I never would have thought that installing a headphone jack would be so complicated.

   

Anyway, some more minor progress but hey at least it's something.  I'm a bit stuck until the laminate arrives but there are a few little things I can do in the meantime...

Before gluing the front panel to the shell I made the template for the marquee.  It wasn't too bad but it definitely didn't come out perfect - good thing it doesn't have to be.



I measured the opening behind the black Plexiglas the best I could and cut out the shape with my router and circle cutting jig. I had to do quite a bit of sanding to get it to fit properly which is why I said it's not perfect.



I added the pencil line after putting the template in place and tracing around the opening. This is the outline of the visible part of the artwork - the only concern is making sure that the artwork is lined up before installing it.



More later.   

[javeryh]

Update! 

I am going to be using a Griffin PowerMate USB knob to control the volume on the jukebox (I know people have been having lots of problems from what I read).   I hope I can get it to work every time on bootup otherwise my wife will never use this thing.  I plan to mount it on the center of the front face in between the touchscreen and the marquee - shocker!

I am really only interested in the aluminum knob (and not the base where the blue LED is located) as well as the circuit board on the inside. As you can see from this picture, there is not much to the volume knob and it is actually quite small without the casing:



In order to remove the guts I had to kind of rip apart the knob and I'm going to have to solder a new USB cable to the 4 connector points on the circuit board. I've never soldered anything in my life but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

The circuit board is going to fit in the hole I drilled out behind the Plexiglas (as shown in a previous post). I am going to have to drill out the Plexiglas a little more for the axle to fit through. In addition, in order to get the knob to lay properly I had to create a 1/8" spacer which I made out of some scrap black Plexiglas.

The first thing I did was find a spare washer that was slightly smaller than the diameter of the volume knob and glue it to some scrap Plexiglas (with the protective paper still on) using some contact cement. Next, I used a saw to cut the Plexiglas as close to the washer as I could and then I sanded it down with some 100 grit sandpaper until the Plexiglas was the same size as the washer.  I'm just following mountain's lead here.





Once I was finished sanding, I was able to remove the washer from the Plexiglas with a utility knife. The protective paper came right off. Before calling the spacer "finished" I had to drill a small hole for the volume knob's keyway to fit in otherwise the bottom of the spacer would not be able to lie flush with the top of the circuit board.





You can see why I had to drill the second hole in the next shot. It was easy to lay out following mountain's instructions - I put the spacer in place before drilling the second hole and then rubbed it back and forth against the keyway - then I just centered my drill bit where the scratch was made and the hole came out perfect.





The next step will be drilling out the Plexiglas on the front panel and using some acrylic glue to bond the spacer to the front. I am going to do a few other things in the mean time though - I need the front of the jukebox to remain flat in order to cut the t-molding slots (among other things). This is what is will look like once it is installed though:



As you can see in the final shot below, once the volume knob is in place, it will be raised by about 1/16" off of the Plexiglas on the front panel which will allow it to turn without rubbing. Perfect!



I don't know what I'm going to do if I can't get the powermate to operate properly.  Maybe the solution is to put the computer to sleep instead of turning it off when it isn't in use.  I really don't know.  The whole design is based on being able to use this knob.  I'm also a bit nervous that I left enough room for the circuit board and the monitor to sit in place properly.  It is a tight fit in there!

More later!

[Martijn]

i can see you are still wearing the ring , so things are still at piece at home with the project 

Was it not possible to extend the volume knob of the speaker set you intergrate into the juke? then you would not have the volume problem and no problem with the print circuit

[javeryh]

i can see you are still wearing the ring , so things are still at piece at home with the project 

Was it not possible to extend the volume knob of the speaker set you intergrate into the juke? then you would not have the volume problem and no problem with the print circuit

You know, I was wondering if that was a possibility.  I don't know much about wiring/electronics.  I'm still up in the air but I am committed to using the knob of the powermate and anything I end up using has to fit in the area I've cut out.

Things are good with this project - I think the wife has an actual interest in this one!

[Martijn]

look @ my last update, its simpel to extend the knob

and 100% always working result..

and makes your design a little different then mountains 

the knob of the powermate can be easy adjusted to fit it 

[DaOld Man]

Hey martijn, I cant find the update you are talking about, how about a quick link? (I dont want to hijack this thread.)
Thanks!

[Martijn]

me neither, but maybe he cant find it also

its not the same device, but maybe he can see its not that hard

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84649.msg898722#msg898722

[javeryh]

I posted this in the Artwork forum but it couldn't hurt to post here I guess...  The time has come to add some artwork for the marquee but I have no idea how to use Photoshop and I am not really artistic in general. I need help!

The only requirement is that the image be 300 DPI and fill the entire space. Also, do not put a border around the edge because lining it up exactly will be difficult.

Anyway, here is the layout for the artwork:



And here is a shot of where it will go (the front of the jukebox will be solid black Plexiglas when it is finished and there will be sliver accents like the volume knob and speaker grill):



I actually don't have any ideas other than I generally like the Rock Band 2 tribal artwork (similar to this but not looking like a skull - just random fractals/swirls):



I also like the idea of making it look like the top half of an old time radio dial. Something like this maybe:



I think it might actually look really cool to do the dial thing but only the black lines and replace the yellowish background with something else like the tribal art... or maybe something completely different. I don't know.

It would be a HUGE help if some of the more experienced graphic artists took a stab at this for me. If I end up using your design I can send Microsoft or Wii points (or $20) or something else for your trouble... or you could do it for the satisfaction of helping me out!   

Thanks!!!