Rotating monitor construction *Project finished*

[DaOld Man]

This is to keep a track of my progress (and cost) of building a rotating monitor for a mame cabinet.
I suggest you first read this post by Koz319:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72638.0
Koz319 gives links to drives you can buy already made, or kits you can put together yourself.
I decided to "roll my own" and build the drive Koz319 linked to:
http://www.bobblick.com/techref/projects/hbridge/hbridge.html

I started by ordering the list of parts that Koz319 listed on his website.
I ordered the parts form Digi-key.
The cost of the parts was $5.83 (US).
This doesnt sound bad, except Digikey added a $5 handling charge, then 8.65 shipping, then state tax, coming to a grand total of $20.65.
This kinda struck me broadside, because the Digi-Key website would not give me a shipping charge until I had placed the order. I usually dont deal with websites that do that, but Digikey is a pretty well known name so I thought it would be ok.
Anyway, I also purchased a printed circuit board from Radio Shack # 276-149.
This is a 1-27/32" by 2-27/32" board with holes in it. It also has a small copper ring around each hole. This is what I will use to mount the parts to. The copper rings are good for soldering the parts to.
I also bought a pack of 4 terminal strips. #276-1388. These have leads that will fit the holes in the board. I will attach power, motor, and control leads to these terminals, when the project is done.

Total cost thus far:
$20.65-- Digikey
$1.99-- PC board
$2.49-- terminal strips
$0.27-- tax at Radio Shack
$25.40 --Total thus far.

I would have come out just as cheap if I had ordered the drive kit that Koz319 has a link to on his site.
The Digikey order kinda left a bad taste in my wallet. I have a probelm with any website charging more for shipping than what the parts cost, especially after adding a handling charge.
If you decide to build your own drive, I highly suggest you try radio shack or other websites for more decent prices on the parts.

Motor:
I had an old 12 volt DC motor in my junk box. I think it may be a windshield wiper motor.
I also had an old AT style computer power supply.
I hooked the power supply to the motor and it worked just fine.
I hooked my digital multi-meter in series with the motor, using the meters 10 amp selection.
The motor draws about 1 amp, which should be ok for the drive.
I let the motor run for several minutes, and it didnt get hot or begin to draw more amps, so i guess I will go with that motor. It also did alright when I reversed it, by reversing the polarity of the wires from the power supply.

Power supply:
I am testing the motor with the AT computer power supply, but I dont think I will go with that. I am considering building a power supply, or buying one, since my ordeal with Digi-key. 

Ok, thats pretty much it for now, just waiting on my drive parts.
Oh yeah, here are some pics of the test setup (AT power supply, motor, and multi-meter).
Also a pic of the Radio Shack PC board and terminal strips.
Notice the amp reading on the meter. The amps fluctuated between 0.60 and 0.79.

[kelemvor]

Wow.  If I had placed an order and foudn out that the shipping and such was 3 times more than the item, I'd have called them up and cancelled it.  I never place an order if I can't see the shipping charge beforehand.  I'd think it'd be somehow illegal to do that since they could just say Ah ha, $100 for shipping and you'd already have ordered...

Oh well.

Good luck.

[bfauska]

Crappy deal with the shipping/handling.  I've never dealt with Digi-key, but I have dealt with Mouser, and have been quite satisfied with their service, although to be honest I've only ordered from them for work and rarely pay attention to the shipping cost so I don't know how accommodating they are of small orders.

BUT, the project sounds really cool.  It seems like there is a post or 2 about rotation each month and finally this month it kept going, everybody is looking into different ways to do it and control it.  It'll be fun to watch all the versions progress. 

I'll be watching intently. 

[Cornchip]

  Digikey has an amazing selection of parts in inventory (the Digikey catalogue looks more like a phone book).  It makes Digikey a premium place to shop. Too bad on the shipping, they should be more up front with the price.

  Your wiper motor looks great. I guess saving it for a rainy day payed off. It kinda looks like a motor that's frequently on Ebay (#320174022091) that spins at 50 RPM which is a good low number to start from vs. the motor that I used that was quite fast. If you get stuck and need a hand adapting your drive method to this motor I might be able to help machine something. Just ask.

 Cronchip.

 

[DaOld Man]

Yep, the shipping kinda put a damper on things, but I wanted to build a drive like Koz319 did, and I figured I would use the parts he listed and the source.
I probably had a lot of the resistors in my junk box. I know I have some 2N222 transistors that would have probably worked for the NPNs, but I wanted to track my costs.

Thanks CC for the offer to machine some parts for me.
I just may take you up on it.

Come to think of it, I think I got this motor from a junk yard years ago when I had an 88 firebird with a bad headlight motor.
This one wouldnt fit, I wound up buying one off ebay I think.
Anyway, the one that fit the bird I remember drawing over 10 amps on a battery charger I tested it on back then. (The charger had a amp meter on it).
But the battery charger probably put out more than 12 volts (it had to be at least 13.8 ).
This would have driven the current higher than the regulated 12 volts.
I was afraid this motor would draw more than the drive can handle (4 or 5 amps), but my test rig showed it is well within the specs.
So if anyone wants to do this project, I suggest you test your motor to make sure it doesnt draw more amps than the drive can handle. I still think a windshield wiper motor would be good. You may have to do some rewiring, because most windshield motors have an internal circuit to make the motor complete its revolution when power is removed. That way it stops in the same spot every time. (Wipers go back down when turned off).

Here is one I was looking at.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-249/400400/POWERFUL_WINDSHIELD_WIPER_MOTOR_.html

Im sorry about the long url, I cant seem to figure out how to make a hyper link on here.

[csa3d]

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-249/400400/POWERFUL_WINDSHIELD_WIPER_MOTOR_.html

Sorry about the long url, I cant seem to figure out how to make a hyper link on here.

Code: [Select]

[url=youLinkGoesHere.html]Text to use as link[/url]
which translate to

Code: [Select]

[url=http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-249/400400/POWERFUL_WINDSHIELD_WIPER_MOTOR_.html]Windwisheild Whiper[/url]
-csa

[DaOld Man]

Thanks CSA, but I cant seem to get it right, must not be holding my mouth right or something..
I will need to work on it more later..

[koz319]

Sorry to hear about your experience with DigiKey.  I thought they might charge a handling fee on smaller orders, I thought I mentioned it.
 
I sort of have a love/hate relationship with them myself.  They carry just about everything, and their order processing is kind of amazing.  I swear they can pick,pack, and ship an order of 50 completely different components in less time than it takes me to find a matching pair of socks.  But their prices are on the high side.  Over time though, they've proven to be super convenient more than once, and the time it can save from having to search through multiple sites can be significant.

But man, paying that much shipping on that small of an order does really stink, sorry.

Mouser is pretty good.  Jameco is good for a smaller selection of stuff.

Anyway, can't wait to see your monitor setup when its complete.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm still using an old AT power supply to drive my motor.  It was originally just going to be for testing, but is still going strong 4 yrs later

Oh, and the same bridge circuit can be modified to handle more current if needed just by using bigger TIP transistors, I think there is a mention of it on the page.



Koz

[Lilwolf]

Wow, that sucks.  Reminds me when I purchased a $15 monitor bezel with happs... then ended up they charged me 30 for shipping... and I don't even think I knew until it got here (was a while ago)

My most recent shipping complaint was I bought my wife a pearl (natural pancake black) necklace for sweetest day.  It was 5 days early, so I payed the 10 bucks extra for overnight shipping...  Well, last night I got an email saying they shipped it... WTF?

[mountain]

Digi-key is a great resource but they do charge a $5.00 handling fee for orders under $50. It makes sense from a business stand point though. Imagine what their warehouse must look like. The have hundreds of thousands of parts that are small and have to pick, pack, and ship. If you order only a few parts they probably do not make money on the order.

Looking forward to following this thread. I plan on a rotating project very soon myself.

Good luck! 

[DaOld Man]

I can understand a handling charge for a small order. I just have a problem paying that much for shipping on a package that will probably not be much bigger than the radio shack package i showed a picture of.
Oh well, thats water past the bridge. Just thought I would mention it so everyone else will know what to expect for their budget.
I appreciate you listing all the parts, Koz319.

You know I was just thinking about that headlight motor. If I remember correctly, after some research, I found that these motors operate by raising the headlight until it stops against a mechanical stop. An electronic sensor under the fender senses the motor current going high, and shuts off the motor. When the power is removed from the circuit, the sensor reverses the motor until the motor's current goes high again, bottoming out against the headlight closed stop.
This could be a pretty neat way to go with a monitor rotation device.
It would do away with any limit switches, unless you still wanted some kind of monitor position indication.
I have already started down the road to the H-Drive with my project so Im not going any farther with this new idea.
But if someone else wants to explore this idea, please feel free to do it.
Here's some information: The sensor and the motor both were on a 1988 Pontiac Firebird, with the headlights that come up when turned on, then go down into the hood (actually the fender) when turned off. This may give you some search options for Google or Ebay.
 

[Cornchip]

   Also similar to this in a car is the circuitry to stop a window at it's limits (there are no limit switches in a window regulator?). It's buried in the harness...not the motor. Must be the same 'current going high' setup.

 Cornchip.


  Edit.... This might be called an 'overload relay' or 'Poly Switch' device.

 http://www.megastar.com/products/fusetronic/polyswitch/PDF/usb.pdf

 

[danny_galaga]

Motor:
I had an old 12 volt DC motor in my junk box. I think it may be a windshield wiper motor.

that is definitely a windshield wiper motor. just be wary which wires you hook up as some of the terminals are for the auto-park function. many an apprentice has blown the contacts to pieces when hooking these up to a test bench    although i guess if you are just using the power supply there wont be enough current to cause any real damage...

[roninuta]

I have had good service from Mouser in the past ordering single parts. I have purchased batteries, leds, and other small parts.

From their site:
Minimum Order:
NO MINIMUM ORDER on items normally stocked in our warehouse.

also they have a shipping estimator tool:
http://www.mouser.com/estimateshipping/estship.aspx?sl=0

HTH

[DaOld Man]

Motor:
I had an old 12 volt DC motor in my junk box. I think it may be a windshield wiper motor.

that is definitely a windshield wiper motor. just be wary which wires you hook up as some of the terminals are for the auto-park function. many an apprentice has blown the contacts to pieces when hooking these up to a test bench    although i guess if you are just using the power supply there wont be enough current to cause any real damage...

Actually, the motor I have pictured is not a windshield wiper motor.
Im pretty sure it is a headlight motor. It only has two wires coming out, and it turns forever, change the polarity and it turns forever in the opposite direction.
Notice also the shaft comes out of the end of the motor. This used to have a knob on it, so you can raise or lower the lights by turning the knob, if the motor fails.
Now the link that I posted is a windshield wiper motor, but the site tells how to hook it up to work for what we want (Im pretty sure).
I agree about damaging a windshield wiper motor by connecting it wrong. Thanks for pointing that out, I should have mentioned it in my post.

[DaOld Man]

I have had good service from Mouser in the past ordering single parts. I have purchased batteries, leds, and other small parts.

From their site:
Minimum Order:
NO MINIMUM ORDER on items normally stocked in our warehouse.

also they have a shipping estimator tool:
http://www.mouser.com/estimateshipping/estship.aspx?sl=0

HTH

Thanks roninuta!
That looks like a pretty good supply house. I have it bookmarked for future purchases.

Project Update:
Still waiting on parts from digikey.
I have been considering how I am going to mount the 21" CRT.
After looking at the way Koz319 and Jimbo and others did theirs, Im thinking of using the round plywood or MDF.
Im thinking of cutting a circle out in 3/4" MDF, then mounting the monitor to that.
Whats the best way to cut a perfect circle (not sure of the diameter, guessing about 22 inches)?
Im thinking of attaching my router to a piece of wood (or metal), that will pivot on the center of the circle. Have a pin in a hole in the center, run the router around, lower the bit and go around again, repeat until through the wood. (Kinda like a compass).
This is my first time at something like this, so Im open for suggestions.

[mountain]

A long time ago I had to cut a very large perfect circle. I used a piece if 1/4" MDF about 10" wide and a little bit longer than the radius that I was cutting. I used the little plastic bezel from the bottom of the router as a template to drill the holes on one end. I measured out to where the pivot needed to be and used a small wooden dowel to temporarily secure it to the wood I was about to cut. Worked great!

[bfauska]

Question:

Whats the best way to cut a perfect circle (not sure of the diameter, guessing about 22 inches)?

Answer:

attaching my router to a piece of wood (or metal), that will pivot on the center of the circle. Have a pin in a hole in the center, run the router around, lower the bit and go around again, repeat until through the wood. (Kinda like a compass).

They also sell circle cutting attachments for routers, but I've done many a circle the way you and Mountain describe and with careful measurements from your pivot to the edge of the router bit you can get a dead on circle in a jiffy.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks guys..
That jig from Rockler looks pretty neat. I guess the scrooge is coming out in me, I hate to pay that much. I think I will try the homemade one first.
(I may be wishing I went ahead and bought one.)

[danny_galaga]

Motor:
I had an old 12 volt DC motor in my junk box. I think it may be a windshield wiper motor.

that is definitely a windshield wiper motor. just be wary which wires you hook up as some of the terminals are for the auto-park function. many an apprentice has blown the contacts to pieces when hooking these up to a test bench    although i guess if you are just using the power supply there wont be enough current to cause any real damage...

Actually, the motor I have pictured is not a windshield wiper motor.
Im pretty sure it is a headlight motor. It only has two wires coming out, and it turns forever, change the polarity and it turns forever in the opposite direction.

ah, thats why the current draw was relatively low. i might just point out that windshield motors turn forever one way or the other too. the backwards/forwards motion you see at the wipers is mechanical.  they apparently make good motors for barbeque spits (",)

[koz319]

Thanks guys..
That jig from Rockler looks pretty neat. I guess the scrooge is coming out in me, I hate to pay that much. I think I will try the homemade one first.
(I may be wishing I went ahead and bought one.)

You should be able to make a basic home made jig pretty easily, I would definitely try the DIY method before buying one.   I used a very basic homemade jig when I cut the circles for mine, and they turned out really well. 
If I remember correctly, it took two passes to cut completely through the plywood.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for the info guys..
I got the parts from Digikey today.
Now Ive got to build the H Drive.
But it may be this weekend before I can start on it, we are having a major outage at the job, so Im working 12 hours a day all week.
I will take some pics and post them as I make progress on it.

[DaOld Man]

Got my parts laid out on the perf board.
I am out of solder, so I got to go to Radio Shack.
Here is a pic, however I decided to lay out the parts a little differently, to save me some jumpers later. My next picture will show that.

[DaOld Man]

The drive is finished! And it works!
I plan to hook it to my digital experimenters board and play around with digital signals to it.
I also intend on hooking it to a nutchip and see what I can do with it.
Here is a pic:
(I tried posting more pics, but I got a "post to large" error, so more pics will follow soon).

[Cornchip]

  Nice work on the H Drive. I still can't wait to try this myself.

 About your pics....try changing the image size to something like 800x600 or even 640x480. It changes the file size from 500kb's to 70kb's. That should help your post sizing issues.

 Cornchip.

[koz319]

Nicely done!

[DaOld Man]

Thank you.
I tried touching each input to power supply positive, using a 10 K resistor, and it works great.
This should allow anyone to use a simple SPDT switch to control it, or two pushbuttons, but one would have to hold the pushbutton until monitor revolution is complete.
Of course you could still use pushbuttons with small relays to hold the input on until the monitor revolution completes.
I am going to play around with it a bit using the nutchip, but I intend my finished product to use the computers LPT port and the program you wrote.
This H Drive is very compact, and it should be cheaper to build than using the relays in my very first drawing, (See this thread) BUT a person needs to have good soldering skills and know a little about electronics before building this H drive. I highly suggest using one of the kits you mention on your site, or the completely put together H drive.
As far as the relays go, if someone can wire a control panel, they should be able to easily wire up the relay drive circuit.
But this H drive only measures about 1 1/2" by 2 3/4" by 1 1/2" deep so it will fit in many tight places where the relay circuit would not.
Here are some datasheets:
TIP125
TIP120
PN2222A

[DaOld Man]

  Nice work on the H Drive. I still can't wait to try this myself.

 About your pics....try changing the image size to something like 800x600 or even 640x480. It changes the file size from 500kb's to 70kb's. That should help your post sizing issues.

 Cornchip.

Thanks Cornchip. I was trying to get better pics with my digital cam so I set it to default. Th eimage size was 2000 something by 1000 something. (I think). Anyway it was the largest the camera could do.
But the pictures look a lot better. Lets see how this one looks:
(H Drive connected to motor and power supply.)

[DaOld Man]

I really like this H drive. I can see several uses for it.
Here is a circuit I drew from paint (sorry, another crappy paint picture).
This picture shows how easy it would be to hook a return to center type switch to the H drive.
Kind of like you did on your cab, CornChip..

[Cornchip]

   Wow...this is looking more interesting. Does this allow me to keep the switch 'as is' and have the ability to auto rotate using koz319's software? (provided you don't try to use the switch and H Drive at the same moment).
 
    Also...is the pdf file from koz319's link the exact screen to make the H Drive with no changes keeping my switch? I think I might just be able to get these parts local to where I am and avoid Digikey.

 Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

   Wow...this is looking more interesting. Does this allow me to keep the switch 'as is' and have the ability to auto rotate using koz319's software? (provided you don't try to use the switch and H Drive at the same moment). Is that what the diode is for...to prevent the back flow of current?  Also...is the pdf file from koz319's link the exact screen to make the H Drive with no changes keeping my switch? I think I might just be able to get these parts local to where I am and avoid Digikey.

 Cornchip.

I guess Koz319 would be better to answer most of your questions.
But I can see where you could use the computer AND your switches to rotate monitor.
Although the simpliest method would be to add another switch for manual (your switches) or auto (computer). Otherwise your computer outputs might conflict with your switch positions.
 
As for the diode, are you referring to the 5K ohm resistor?
I didnt use a diode in the last diagram, but the 5Kohm resistor is just to protect the H drive inputs by limiting the current flow. This resistor may not even be necessary.
I just havent tried connecting A or B directly to positive because I just didnt want to take the chance..

[Cornchip]

  Opps...I modified that last post. I thought the resistor was a diode. Could a diode protect the computer should the key switch be used at an inopportune moment? One other program that I rotate (Kawaks) would still have to have the switch....or any other emulator not supported. Also I have a Dreamcast that has a few vertical games as well (my monitor has 2 VGA inputs). Hmmm....

 Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

Here's another crappy paint picture, showing a DPDT switch to switch between the computer and the SPDT switch:
I just squeezed the extra drawing into the first. if you are interested in doing it this way, I will draw a better picture.
The Auto/Manual switch is a maintained switch, it could be hidden somewhere, such as on top of cabinet, or in back, or you may want it next to the SPDT switch.

[Cornchip]

   That's alot to think about. I think I'll build this on my bench first and get the wiring straight before attempting a re-wire of the cab. Thanks DaOld Man for the help.

 Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

Good luck, just remember to be careful when wiring up the H drive, if you get something wrong, it could fry the transistors.
Please keep us posted on your progress. it might be a good new thread.

[XyloSesame]

When are one of you going to start building these for the rest of us transistor-impaired folks?

[Cornchip]

   I actually consider myself as transistor impaired. I won't let my disability stop me. I'll let you  in my progress as it happens.

 Cornchip.

[koz319]

    Also...is the pdf file from koz319's link the exact screen to make the H Drive with no changes keeping my switch? I think I might just be able to get these parts local to where I am and avoid Digikey.
 Cornchip.

That looks to be the PDF file you could use to etch your own board if you like, if thats what you are after.   The hbridge itself doesn't need to change to support manual switching.  If you have a decent electronics shop in your area , they will most likely stock these components or their equivalents

You should be able to connect external switches and the LPT port - I would definitely use the 'select' method that DaOldMan illustrated, to avoid any conflict between auto and manual modes.  One thing to remember though, if you do use a manual switch, you will still need to manually handle the degauss.

I didn't put a switch on my cab, I just created two shortcuts on my desktop to batch files that call rotate.exe.  One rotates clockwise, the other counterclockwise.   When i click one of the Icons in my quicklaunch bar the screen turns.  (Or the batch files can be called from any other programs.)

When are one of you going to start building these for the rest of us transistor-impaired folks?

A few months back I put out a feeler to see if anyone was interested in having a few of these made, and there wasnt really any interest. 
See this post:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63216.msg632075#msg632075

If there is any interest now, this could still be done.  A few bucks could be shaved off by not including terminal strips, db25 sockets or parallel cables, just let me know.

but the 5Kohm resistor is just to protect the H drive inputs by limiting the current flow. This resistor may not even be necessary.

IMHO, the current limiting resistor is a good idea here..

I also think DaOldMan has a good point about wiring this yourself.  It's a fairly simple circuit, but if your new to wiring things like this on a breadboard, it may be a little more difficult than it appears at first blush.  Im' mot trying to be discouraging at all, I think anyone should be able to build it with a little patience.    You just may want to have a few extra parts handy. (get a few xtra of each)

Koz

[DaOld Man]

When are one of you going to start building these for the rest of us transistor-impaired folks?

I truly wish I could build these for people, but I really dont have the time. (Maybe this would be a good retirement job for me instead of the wild idea about an arcade.)

I suggest you take Koz319 up on his offer, or order one already built and ready to go:
http://www.pololu.com/products/pololu/0705/

Kox319 has this link on his website also.
27 shucks including shipping aint too bad.

[XyloSesame]

When are one of you going to start building these for the rest of us transistor-impaired folks?

A few months back I put out a feeler to see if anyone was interested in having a few of these made, and there wasnt really any interest. 
See this post:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63216.msg632075#msg632075

If there is any interest now, this could still be done.  A few bucks could be shaved off by not including terminal strips, db25 sockets or parallel cables, just let me know.

I am very interested; however everything I'm reading warns to not attempt anything without an understanding... and I'm still trying to absorb and understand the workings and application of these devices and motors and their relationships to monitors and arcade cabs. It's a bit overwhelming to a complete novice...

[csa3d]

When are one of you going to start building these for the rest of us transistor-impaired folks?

A few months back I put out a feeler to see if anyone was interested in having a few of these made, and there wasnt really any interest. 
See this post:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63216.msg632075#msg632075

If there is any interest now, this could still be done.  A few bucks could be shaved off by not including terminal strips, db25 sockets or parallel cables, just let me know.

I am very interested; however everything I'm reading warns to not attempt anything without an understanding... and I'm still trying to absorb and understand the workings and application of these devices and motors and their relationships to monitors and arcade cabs. It's a bit overwhelming to a complete novice...

Not to mention, there are portions of this stuff which require you to alter the design based on the specifics of your motor.  These are the parts which are most confusing to me, and make me wish there was an "all in one" solution for this.  Building and soldering, sure.. i'd give that a go.  But know what I'm doing, not so sure. 

With all that, you guys are still providing way more useful info than any I've seen on the board about this topic, please continue with notes even if us slowpokes aren't keeping up

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Well, my original relay circuit would pretty much cover all motors.
If you used 15 amp relays, the motor could draw up to 15 amps.
My advice to the novice:
Get your motor first.
Go to the junkyard, check ebay, whatever it takes. A window motor would probably work, as would a windshield wiper motor, and I am pretty sure a headlight motor off a 88 firebird will work. (Least I hope so).
A motor with a gearbox on it will turn slower, but have more strength. (Might be two pluses.)
After you get your motor, you will need a power supply.
Or you can hook the motor to your car battery.
Use a multimeter that can measure at least 10 amps.
Put it in line with the motor and see how many amps it draws.
Remember that this is no load on the motor, it will draw more when loaded down.
The H drive I built should be good for 4 or five amps.
If your motor draws more than that you will need a different drive. (Or a different motor.)
Also while you are testing the motor, reverse the leads, see if it reverses.
If you use a windshield wiper motor, it may have to be specially handled.
So,
(1) get your motor
(2) get a power supply capable of putting out the amps the motor will draw.
(3) choose your drive.
If anyone wants to try building my relay drive, tell me what relays you are looking at (part # etc) and I will see if I can put together a point to point wiring diagram

[DaOld Man]

Update:
I found another motor in my junk box. I thought this one was a windshield wiper motor, but Im not sure. It has a knob on the motor shaft, so it may have been one I tried to rig for the firebird.
I bought a few motors trying to make one work.
Anyway, my old AT power supply was only putting out 10 Volts, so I dug out another one that puts out the 12 I need.
My "new" motor works good. Its a bit smaller than the first, and it draws about 1.14 amps in one direction, and a little under one amp in the other direction.
The batteries on my camera are dead, so I will try to post a pic later.

[DaOld Man]

Yet another update:
I have a temp probe on my multi-meter.
I measured the temp on the big transistors.
After the motor runs for about 10 mins, temp on Q2 gets to 122 F.
It's mate, Q3, is just a couple degrees cooler.
I know the motor should never run that long at a time in the cabinet, but just in case, I'm wondering if I should install heat sinks?
On my H drive, I have Q1 and Q3 side by side and Q2 and Q4 side by side.
I did this on purpose, because the tab on the transistor is electrically connected to its collector.
If you look on the schematic, the collectors of Q1 and Q3 wire together, as do Q2 and Q4,
so I figured I could bolt a heat sink across the pairs, maybe making it a little easier to install.
If I had placed the transistors any differently, I would have had to use separate heat sinks on each one.
Since I wanted to keep the board as small as possible, I did it this way.
Any comments/suggestions on the heat sinks?

[HaRuMaN]

HS would be overkill.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks, I suppose you are right about the heat sink. But ambient temperature was 68 F at the time I took the temps. Im sure the temp inside the cabinet in summertime will be higher.

Update:
Here is the promised picture of my new (old) motor.
Notice the knob on the end of the motor. Might be handy if something fails, turn knob until monitor is straight. I might be willing to part with one of these motors, but I wont decide which one to keep until I build the monitor support system.
I will post it then, so if you need a motor, keep an eye out.
Second picture is a printer cable I picked up at a yard sale for 50 cents.
I plan to cut the printer end off. The end I am holding will plug into the computer printer port.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I cut the printer plug off the cable and stripped back the outer jacket. (See first pic).
I then separated the wires, and trimmed each.
I then used my multimeter to "ohm" out each wire. (Second pic)
I wrapped a wire around the black probe, then touched the red lead to each pin of the plug on the other end of the cable. When I had zero resistance, I wrote the wire color down, and the pin number that the wire attaches to. I dont know if there is a standard color scheme for all printer cables. (I couldnt find one on the web). So I suggest you use this same method to identify which wire goes to which pin. The pins are numbered inside the plug (You might need a magnifying glass).
There are 13 pins on top, numbered 1 to 13.
There are 12 pins on the bottom, numbered 14 to 25. Pin 14 is the first in the bottom row, and is located below pins 1 and 2.
This cord has a shield (bare wire). This wire connects to the plug's metal case.
It will not be used in my application. One wire (Black w/ white stripe) connects to pins 18 thru 25.
These pins are all grounds, and need to be connected together to protect against noise, this cable will save me a little work, since it already has the grounds connected together.

[DaOld Man]

I rigged up a test station. (First two photos)
I ran Koz319s program from command prompt and the leds lit as expected.
I could not wire the inputs as Koz319 did his. The inputs on my computer seem to float high, which means they give a high signal when connected to nothing. So I had to "tie" them to ground to bring them down to low.
I connected the inputs to ground through a 470 ohm resistor.
I then had a 330 ohm resistor tied to the output. I touched the 330 ohm resistor to the input to simulate a switch closing.
This works great.
I tried entering a call to Koz319s "rotate.exe" program in GLaunch.
In mame.cfg, I entered a pre command of "C:\(path to the rotate program)\rotate r 10"
Then I entered a post command of "C:\(path to the rotate program)\rotate l 10"
When I ran a game, the red led came on for 10 seconds, or until I touched the resistor leads together (simulating a switch closing). The red led went off and the game started.
It did the same thing for the green led when I quit the game.
This will work great if all your games in mame.cfg are rotated, I am working on a small program that will recognize which game needs to be turned. I think Koz319 is too.
The third picture is the diagram of my test rig.
Dont let this overwhelm you. It is really pretty simple.
Note about my test rig: I use an old Heathkit breadboard I got off ebay. These things are very handy. Radio shack sells small boards without power supplies that are pretty reasonable in price. I recommend you get one, if you want to get into electronics as a hobby. The parts on the right side of the board is a separate experiment Im doing with the nutchip.
Saint: Let me know if I am posting to much stuff on here. I dont want to use up more than my share of your server space.

[DaOld Man]

Just a quick link to an informative site about printer cables and plugs.
It even tells how to make your own.
But the wire color chart does not match the colors in my cable, so I would not go by that if you are hacking an old printer cable like I did. Use the method I used with an ohmmeter (multimeter), or use an led and battery to identify which wire is attached to which pin.

http://www.geocities.com/keinhong/nfpt/ecp_cable.html

[javeryh]

Awesome work DaOld Man!  I wish I could follow in your footsteps... I'm going to give the whole rotating monitor a shot on my next cab but It might take me forever to figure all this stuff out!   I only want to implement it if the rotation is automatic based on the game selected - I've got a lot of reading/learning to do! 

[DaOld Man]

Its really not that hard to follow what I am doing here, except that my drawings are crappy, plus my cam pics are not good at all up close, unless I use very high settings, then the pics are too big to post.
It might help if you know what the symbols I draw mean.
The schematic drawings are just shortcut symbols that make drawing a circuit easier.
Look at the example drawing I attached.
You can see that the top would be a lot easier to draw (freehand anyway, both suck in Paint, but you can copy and paste.)
You just need to learn what the symbols mean.

[DaOld Man]

Sorry I forgot this in my last post:
Thanks for the kind comments javeryh!

Here is a site that has a pretty neat description of schematic symbols:

http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/schem.htm

Pull the horizontal divider down, then in the box at the top, place your mouse on a symbol, what it is will appear in the box below it.

Im sure there are thousands of websites that can teach you, just google schematic symbols.

But if all you want to do is build a certain circuit, you just need to learn the symbols used in it. Please feel free to ask me anything about any of my drawings.
Im not above making mistakes too, so if some of your experienced guys see a mess-up, please alert me.

[HaRuMaN]

Shouldn't you be using the correct symbol for a resistor then?

Code: [Select]


---/\/\/\----



[DaOld Man]

Resistors are drawn both as a rectangle and the -VVV- drawing you drew.
If I freehand, I usually draw it like you did, but using paint or most any CAD type drawing, it is harder to draw than the rectangle.
But if you look it up, most designers these days use the long rectangle.

I try to label all my parts, such as R1 is resistor 1, which should help to identify it.

[koz319]

I could not wire the inputs as Koz319 did his. The inputs on my computer seem to float high, which means they give a high signal when connected to nothing. So I had to "tie" them to ground to bring them down to low.
I connected the inputs to ground through a 470 ohm resistor.

Doh!  I knew I must have missed something when I put that site together.  I must have spaced when I drew those diagrams, sorry.  Yes, you definitely need to tie the inputs low - I used 4.7k resistors between the input pins and ground.  I must have spaced when I drew those diagrams, sorry.   (At least I mentioned it, sort of, on the what you need page.)  I'll be sure to update that site.

Thanks for pointing that out!


BTW, DaOld Man, if your ISP doesn't supply you with web space, I can set you up with some site space on the server I'm using, just let me know.


Koz
 

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Koz319.
How does everyone feel about making this topic a website?
I am just getting started. I still need to do the monitor mechanics.
(I will probably copy what you did Koz319, as close as I can anyway.)
This thread could get extremely long over time.

I liked your drawings, they are simple and to the point.
I didnt see the part about the pull down resistors, but I have a bad habit of skimming over the type if there is eye candy to look at.

[csa3d]

As I have shared interest in this topic, I'm definitely excited about all the forward progress, including someone in the software forum getting started on a MALA plug-in for motor rotation.  Keep it up, and let me know if I can ever help with anything.

I do however, think that if you guys decide to take this into a website format, you should see if Saint won't host the images or something, so the information never vanishes.

-csa

*edit*  The Mala plugin refered to earlier is this one by Ede for clarification

[javeryh]

As I have shared interest in this topic, I'm definitely excited about all the forward progress, including someone in the software forum getting started on a MALA plug-in for motor rotation.  Keep it up, and let me know if I can ever help with anything.

I do however, think that if you guys decide to take this into a website format, you should see if Saint won't host the images or something, so the information never vanishes.

-csa

I totally agree.  I'm probably a few weeks (months?) away from attempting this but when I do I plan to document it as sort of a "Monitor Rotation for Dummies" or something... 

[DaOld Man]

I was just killing some time scanning ebay, and came across this firebird headlight motor:

Clicky here

EDIT: The above link is no longer available on Ebay. Just search for firebird headlamp motor.
06/29/09

not a bad deal for 21 shucks (inc shipping).
It looks like the first one I have.
There are several of these motors on ebay, if someone needs one for their rotate project.
Just search for "headlight motor".

[ratzz]

Good work on this DaOld Man.

I really wish that I could attempt something like this, but I am so scared of the back of monitors / tv's, and the associated danger of death that I don't think that I ever will.

Good luck though -- its got to be THE coolest cab modification ever! 

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Ratzz..

Have you thought about doing a rotate with the monitor in its case?
On "The Rage", the 19" monitor I used had recessed buttons on the front, so I mounted the monitor in it's case.
Below is a couple of pics.
Just yesterday I helped my son move The Rage from his bachelor's house to his and his wife's rental house. We wound up having to transport it on its back, and the monitor didnt shift or come loose at all.
Here is a link to the blog I did on the construction:
http://skennys-arcade.blogspot.com/

Edited to remove the pictures, to cut down on this thread a little. If you are interested in seeing several pictures of The Rage, just follow the above link.

[ratzz]

Hi DaOld Man,

I am very familiar with 'The Rage' having been a fan of the marquee you did.

My current project is a 80% cab and will really struggle for space, I think, for a rotating monitor, but it has to be the way forward for true arcade authenticity.

I'll be following the thread with interest!   

[DaOld Man]

Yes, I remember your positive comments about the marquee now..
Do you have a thread started on your progress on the arcade you are doing?
BTW, I removed the two pics in the previous post to cut down the size of this thread a little.

[DaOld Man]

Project update:
I am now throwing together the diagrams to build an isolator board, that will go between the computer and the H Drive.
I dont have a warm fuzzy feeling about interfacing my computer to the H Drive, so I plan to use opto isolators to separate the computer signals from the H Drive.
What is an opto isolator, you may ask?
It is a very small integrated circuit, (also called a "chip") that contains an led and a photo switch. (transistor)
You put power into the chip that lights the LED, then the led turns on the photo transistor.
The transistor is like a switch, that will turn on the H Drive. The computer power and the H drive power are completely separated.
Learn more about it here:
Wiki Clicky

I also plan to add a "auto/manual" switch so I can move the monitor with two pushbuttons, if the need arises.
I will need 6 opto isolators total.
(1) Rotate left (from computer)
(2) Rotate right (from computer)
(3) Monitor on (from computer)
(4) monitor degauss (from computer)
(5) CW limit switch (to computer)
(6) CCW limit switch (to computer)

Im hoping I wont need the degauss, but Im throwing that in, just in case.
*More crappy paint drawings coming soon*

[koz319]

Im hoping I wont need the degauss, but Im throwing that in, just in case.

If it's a CRT monitor, I would be very surprised if you didn't need the degauss circuit - if you want to check, just fire up whatever monitor you want to use, then turn it on its side.  If the colors go funky, you will need to degauss.

On another note, I wrote a quick plugin for MALA that will automatically control the lport based on whatever game you launch.  It uses the same pinout I described on my site, and a default rotate timeout of 5 seconds and a degauss of 3 seconds.  I'll add some config options so this can be adjusted, but if you want to check it out, I have attached it here.   Just unzip and copy to the 'plugins' folder of MALA.

I'm almost done with another cmd line prg that should be able to be used transparently with pretty much any front end, when its done I'll post it, and all the source for this stuff.

Looking at your idea for opto-isolators,  you can probably get away with not opto-isolating the inputs for the limit switches, since you are already isolating the output from the lpt port to the h-bridge.  This is the same signal used to trigger when the limit is reached, so its already isolated.   If you use an SSR for monitor power, it's isolated by default.   Then again, you can get multichannel isolators dirt cheap so what the heck.

For the MALA plugin, add the -autorol option to the 'Mame Config -> Basics -> command line ' field.
Also, put a check in the 'Rotate MaLa with Mame after quitting game if needed' box under 'Mame Config -> Options'

You will need to have installed the DLportIO driver from my site.

Anyway, here's the MALA plugin. (version double beta .1 )

Hope any of this helps,

Koz

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Koz319, the plug in works great with mala.
I use GLaunch, so Im really never figured out how to set up mala correctly.
the gmes I either dont have or dont run right still show up on the menu, plus I cant get a snapshot to display.
Looks like I need to study up a bit.
On my test rig, the red led comes on when I select galaga88, but the display dosent turn, Im sure there is a setting in mala I dont have right.
But I notice the green led doesnt come on after I exit galaga88.
As for the optos on the inputs, I think I will go with them.
I'm hoping the  opto ill be able to switch a relay I already have on hand.
Also Im hoping the monitor I have will degauss when it is powered on.

[koz319]

On my test rig, the red led comes on when I select galaga88, but the display dosent turn, Im sure there is a setting in mala I dont have right.
But I notice the green led doesnt come on after I exit galaga88.

When you say the display doesn't turn, do you mean the monitor rotates but the graphics don't?  If that is the case, you just need to add the -autorol parameter.

(For the MALA plugin, in the Mala options, add '-autorol' to the 'Mame Config -> Basics -> Command Line ' field. Also, put a check in the 'Rotate MaLa with Mame after quitting game if needed' box under 'Mame Config -> Options')

The plugin in it's current form only rotates when a game is launched.  It takes advantage of the fact that when a game exits, MaLa can change its layout orientation to horizontal or vertical based on the game you just played.

Koz

[DaOld Man]

Yes, I meant the display graphics doesnt rotate on the screen.
I dont have the monitor set up yet to physically rotate, plus Im doing this on my desktop PC right now.
But I was observing the leds on my test rig.
They come on when the screen is supposed to rotate.
I will play around with the mala options.
This is very exciting.. Im learning as much as anyone else in here, I think..

[DaOld Man]

Ok, Im going to show my ignorance here..

How do you get to this:

(For the MALA plugin, in the Mala options, add '-autorol' to the 'Mame Config -> Basics -> Command Line ' field. Also, put a check in the 'Rotate MaLa with Mame after quitting game if needed' box under 'Mame Config -> Options')


I cannot find the Mala options you mention.

[DaOld Man]

I figured it out.. Just had to find out how to get back to the options window..
Right click on the mala screen..
I now remember discussing this with someone some time back (maybe Loadman?)..
I guess it was so long ago that I had forgotten it. (Could have been last week  )
Anyway, your plug in works great..
I will be changing my frontend from GLaunch to Mala.. (Has Hell froze over already?)

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I have my computer interface plan. You can hook the Hdrive to the limits and computer just like Koz319 did his, but I am just a little scared that my computer might get harmed if something shorts or the H drives power supply goes berserk.
So I am going to isolate my computer from the rotate circuit with opto-isolators.
The opto-isolator is a very small DIP IC (chip), that has a led and a photo transistor.
It's easier for me to just think of it as a SPST normally open electronic switch.
Put current in one side, and the other side closes.
They have many applications, but the switch side can only handle a small amount of current, so the best applications are computer or electronics.
Ok, back to my circuit.
Attached is my drawing.
I bought a handfull of the Texas Instruments TIL119 optos off ebay. Hopefully they will work for me. I used the specs for this chip to get my resistor values. If you use a different chip, it may require different resistors for the LED side.
The left side of the print is going to the computer. The right side to the H Drives inputs, and 12 Volts DC. The opto-isolators split the drawing down the middle.

Ok, if the computer gives a signal to rotate ClockWise (CW), pin 2 of the printer plug (P-Plug) goes high.

Current flows from P-Plug ground (pins 18-25), through u1 LED, through R1 to pin 2.
u1 output then closes, current flows from H Drive input A through CWLS, through u1, back to + 12 VDC. The motor turns Clockwise until CWLS is reached.

When CWLS switches, the NC contact opens, and NO contact closes. This stops the motor by breaking the current flow through H Drive A.


But now the current flows from - 12 V through R7, through u2 LED, through CWLS, through u1, back to +12V.

This turns on the output of u2,  current flows from pin12 through R2 back to P-Plug pin2, which is still high.

Pin 12 of P-plug is the input that tells computer that clockwise rotation end has been reached.
This pin is held LOW by R3 connecting it to P-Plug ground.
But when u2 is turned on, Pin 12 goes high.
Since R2 is a lot smaller value than R3, current flows from pin12 when u2 is on.

The same thing happens when the computer issues a rotate counter-clockwise command.
Pin 3 goes high, which turns on u3, which turns on H Drive B, which rotates motor counter clockwise.
When CCWLS is activated, u4 is turned on, which brings P-Plug pin 13 high.

I dont have the monitor on/off interface drawn here. I may use a solid state relay for that, which will elimanate the need for another opto-isolator. (Like Koz319 suggests).

I have seen a problem with using the printer port in this application.
On my test rig, when I turn on my computer, before Windows starts to load, all outputs from P_plug go high for about 1 second.
Then again, when Windows is loading, they all go high for about 3 seconds.
Im thinking that this is going to rotate the monitor off which ever limit switch is made.
This could mean a crooked monitor angle when ever the machine is turned on.
It will straighten when you play a game that issues a rotate command, but still, it may be embarrassing when you first power up your arcade with a bunch of friends watching.

So, we need to either come up with a way to disable all outputs if all are turned on,
or use another output as a disable, if it's on, then no drive outputs, or have a power on time delay.
Say, kill motor rotation until 10 seconds after computer is turned on.

This problem may be with my computer only, I need to test it on a few others I have.

Edited: Found a flaw in my first drawing. This drawing SHOULD be ok..

[DaOld Man]

I threw together a quick diagram of how the printer cord, interface board, the H drive, the power supply, and the limit switches will connect to each other.
This drawing is extremely crappy, but it was drawn in a hurry.
maybe later, after I get everything built, I can post some real pictures.
In this drawing I am using Happ pushbuttons as the CWL and CCWL switches.
This is what Koz319 is using, and I think it should be readily available to everyone, so why not use them?
Please dont laugh at the way I drew them, well, OK, go ahead and laugh....
 

[csa3d]

I bought a handfull of the Texas Instruments TIL119 optos off ebay. Hopefully they will work for me. I used the specs for this chip to get my resistor values. If you use a different chip, it may require different resistors for the LED side.

For us dummies.. I assume there is a math formula in the event we can't find these same chips?  Can you share if so?

Thanks again for your updates, and your drawings are great so far!  I'm just amazed you are using Paint for anything.
-csa

[DaOld Man]

Thanks CSA3D..
Yes, I really do need to loose the paint program..

I had a very long post typed out about how I figured for the resistors in my circuit, but I guess I timed out and it wouldnt let me post.
Note to self: Always copy the text before posting, so you can paste in new post, if necessary.

Anyway, I dont really want to retype it all, so i am going to make it short.

To get the resistance needed for the optos led, it is basically the same as with any led.

First you need to know the supply voltage, in my case it is two voltages, computer volts of 5 and H Drive power supply of 12.

Now you need to know the voltage drop across the led and the minimum current needed to light the led, and the maximum current that the led will handle before it destructs.
You can get this information from datasheets. Just search the net for a datasheet for the device you are using.

After you have this info, just use Ohms law.
E/I = R
or Volts (E) divided by current (I) equals resistance (R)
Current is amps. (1 milliamp = .001 amp)
Resistance is in ohms.

So, on my computer side, I subtract the volt drop on the led (from datasheet) from the 5 volts, or 5-1.5=3.5 (datasheet says volt drop on my optos is 1.5)

I then figure the current I want. (also min from datasheet).
Since the computer port can probably only supply up to 20 or 25 milliamp, I figure for 10 milliamp (ma), to be on the safe side.

So E/I=R or 3.5/.010 = 350 ohms. I had some 330 ohms, which figures to be .0107 amp, so they should work fine. (.0107 amp = 10.7 ma)

For 12 volts, I used 12-1.5=10.5
So I figured the resistance for that side the same as above, but using 10.5 for E instead of 3.5.
I usually dont have the exact resistor on hand, but you can usually go up or down a little.

I plan to test these optos on my breadboard when they come in. I may have to adjust the values of the resistors.

To figure for the transistor side of the opto, you need to know the transistors IF (Forwarding current) and IMax (maximum current).
These should be on the datasheet.
Using the above formula, you figure what you need to get the IF and not overload the transistor or the power supply.

If you would like me to figure all this for you, just give me the number of the device you are thinking of using, I will be glad to figure what you need.
But it aint rocket science. Im sure you can do it.

[bfauska]

I remember reading in the past about the pins of a parallel port doing various things on boot.  I don't remember what the application was, I think it was a masking system for a home theater screen or something.  Anyway, my point is that I think it applies to enough computers that people should plan on working around it somehow.  I think the delay on boot for that circuit would be the best bet, you could run the delay fairly long if you wanted to be safe, the monitor shouldn't have to rotate until you are in the menu and choose a game right?  I haven't looked too close at your schematic, but I imagine you could drop a time delay relay into the power supply for your motor control circuit.  Trigger the relay from the 5v or 12v in your computer and your good to go.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Bfauska.
I have been thinking about this tonight. I thought maybe a transistor, capacitor and resistor set up as an "on delay timer" (On delay timer would pass current to the interface after a time delay, say 30 seconds after power on, hence on delay).

But for this application, since all outputs are turning on at once during boot up, I thought the simplest approach would be one transistor and one resistor.

Look at the attached print.
I added a PNP transistor right below the printer plug.
I tied the base of this transistor through a 470 ohm resistor to pin 6, which is the fifth output. Since we wont be using the fifth output in our project, I thought this would work. I added it to my test breadboard circuit and it does work.
Here's how:

On computer bootup, all output pins go high.
A PNP transistor passes current from its Collector (C) to its Emitter (E), only when current flows from its Base (B) to its Emitter. (In other words, the base has to be negative or ground).
So when all outputs are on, pin 6 is high, or positive. No current flows from base to emitter, so no current flows from collector to emitter, so, the LEDs do not light.
But when pin 6 is turned off (Low or negative), current flow from base to emitter, so current flows from collector to emitter, powering the LEDs.
In short, if pin 6 is turned on, the leds are turned off.

This works on my test bread board, so I am going to implement it into my interface circuit.
Now, this method will not work on applications that require pin 6 to be turned on when pins 2 or 3 are on. But we dont need pin 6 in our project, so we should be good to go.

I used the 470 ohm resistor to limit current flow through the transistor. transistors have a maximum current flow before they self destruct. I first tried a 4900 ohm resistor, but the leds seemed pretty dim, so I tried the 470 ohm, and they look good.

Please note that I adhere to the principal that current flows from negative to positive, some folks will highly disagree. If you buy into the positive to negative theory, just reverse the current flow in your mind, and it should be A-Ok..

[theCoder]

Man, this is good stuff.  I love the way you got past the boot issue with just 2 components.  I would have been tempted to do something with a 555 or PIC.  Those opto's are great to work with.  Simple & safe. 

Make sure to post a short video when you have it all integrated and working.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks theCoder!
I will try a video, I havent done that before, so it might be even crappier than my paint pictures, but we shall see..
I had to make a change on the circuit.
I double checked Koz319s website, and I see he is using pin 6 for the degauss circuit, so Im moving my pnp transistor from pin 6 to pin 4.
Hopefully I wont need the degauss circuit, Im hoping the monitor will degauss when it turns on (man, I need to test that!). I intend to turn the monitor off while rotating.
But I need to leave that output alone, just in case someone else wants to use it for degauss.
The next drawing of the interface I post will have the change on it.

[koz319]

In regards to the parallel port pins going high on startup,   I did not implement any type of bypass on my cab, it's just the h-bridge straight to the parallel port. 

 For my particular set-up, the only negative has been the degauss circuit being repeatedly activated at boot.   The degauss coil in the monitor has thermal protection built in, so it can only be activated every so often (say 30 seconds or so).  If it is triggered at boot (which happens on occasion), and then I go straight into a game which requires the monitor to rotate, the thermal protection on the degauss coil keeps it from degaussing completely when rotation is finished, and the colors are off a little.  I't falls into the occasional annoyance category. 

I actually want to do pretty much the same thing as DaOld Man drew up and just haven't gotten to it. (probably because it will take me about 40 minutes to clear out a space and  move the cab out from the wall so I can open it up to implement a 2 minute fix )

I would definitely recommend implementing this from the get go.   

Gotta go, looks like theres a woot-off going on!


Koz

[bfauska]

Turning off the monitor would certainly be a clean solution, but if you want to draw focus to the cool rotating monitor in your setup, could you have the front end play an animation while the monitor rotates before a game starts?  Like a spinning spiral, or a bunch of gears that look like they are doing the work.  The sign at the Wynn in Las Vegas has a part that moves over a huge monitor and when the movement is happening they have all kinds of animations that play with the movement to interact, it looks really cool.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Koz319..
I found that the pin 4 was staying on after bootup, which kills the leds, so I tried the same hooked to pin 7, but had the same thing on bootup.
After much head scratching, I found that if I "broke the ground" with Q1 (pnp transistor) to the inputs, the printer port acts this way.
I took the ground for the inputs and put it to the p-plugs ground, and it has done ok or the last two reboots.
I think Windows is doing some screwy things with my port, and everyone may not have the same experiences I am having.
But for now, the attached drawing shows what seems to be working.
But since I still have not received my optos, I will leave the test rig connected and watch the leds each time I boot up.

Side note: Koz319 is working on a neat program for this, but I think it is for windows only (But I may be wrong). Anyway, I wrote some logic once for my job that used the printer port for real world I/O. This project used a dos computer. I wrote the program in QBasic, which will run in DOS. If there is enough interest from DOS users, I can try to copy what Koz319 is doing for DOS.

[DaOld Man]

Turning off the monitor would certainly be a clean solution, but if you want to draw focus to the cool rotating monitor in your setup, could you have the front end play an animation while the monitor rotates before a game starts?  Like a spinning spiral, or a bunch of gears that look like they are doing the work.  The sign at the Wynn in Las Vegas has a part that moves over a huge monitor and when the movement is happening they have all kinds of animations that play with the movement to interact, it looks really cool.

I think I posted the last post while you were posting...

That sounds like a neat idea, but you would have to degauss at end of rotation, unless you use a lcd monitor.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I have found that I cannot connect the pnp transistors base to pin 4.
Pin 4 is set high by windows on startup, why, Im not sure, may be windows is trying to que the printer through that output?
Anyway, I will be connecting the transistor to pin 7. It seems to go back low after windows loads.
Aint Windows just grand?

[DaOld Man]

I have still not received my opto isolators from ebay. I am beginning to think I may have gotten ripped.
My Radio Shack doesnt have any, so I may have to order elsewhere.

I hooked my test bread board and my H drive, power supply. and motor to a old windows 98 machine I have.

It seems to work just fine, but I would still feel better using the optos on my mame PC.
Anyway, I wrote a small DOS program that allows me to plug in "on" and "off" times to toggle the #2 printer pin on and off.
I was experimenting with motor speed control. (Pulse Width Modulation, or PWM)

I came to these conclusions:
With H drive forward input connected to Printer Port Pin #2.
I can control the speed of the motor by varying the on and off times.
But it does have its drawbacks.
First of all, the motor is being turned off and on, so it constantly jerks.
The motor is more noisy.
The H Drives power transistors got pretty hot, so I think heat sinks will be a must if you plan to use PWM.

I cannot measure the motors speed, because I dont have a tachometer, but I can clearly see a difference in speed.
I tried 1 millisecond (ms) on and 300 ms off. This seems to get a pretty slow speed.
Seems like increasing the time on makes less difference than increasing the time off.

I am planning to build a program to rotate the monitor in DOS.
I probably wont use it, since my mame machine is on a windows XP machine.
But it is letting me develop PWM, and it will be cool for those who still use DOS.
If anyone's interested please let me know.

Using your printer port for I/O is a lot easier in DOS than it is in Windows.
You dont need an external driver in DOS.

[theCoder]

I cannot measure the motors speed, because I don't have a tachometer, but I can clearly see a difference in speed.
I tried 1 millisecond (ms) on and 300 ms off. This seems to get a pretty slow speed.
Seems like increasing the time on makes less difference than increasing the time off.

1 ms seems awfully short a duration to try to drive a motor.  Especially a 1/300 duty cycle.  Are you sure you are actually getting one ms on.  The "less difference" may (??) be that the line is not outputting what you are expecting.  If you have access to one, you might put an oscilloscope on your drive line.

Glad to hear you have motion anyway.  Keep it up.

Too bad on the chips.  I usually buy my stuff from Newark.com.  Ebay is hit or miss on components. 

[DaOld Man]

You could be right on the pin not actually staying on for 1 ms, or off for 300.
I dont have an oscilloscope, so I dont really know.
Probably the best way to regulate the speed in this situation would be using a potentiometer on the motor leads, or perhaps in the H drive circuit.
I dont think I will need to regulate the speed in my setup anyway, I was just doing some research to see if it can be done, might be a good alternative to using speed reducing gears.
If the optos dont come in by the end of this week, I will place an order with a company.

[DaOld Man]

I am still waiting for my optos.
I have ordered some more stuff from allelectronics.com. I went ahead and ordered some optos from them. I just dont have a good feeling about the ebay deal, since the guy wont answer my emails.

 Edited: 01/11/08... Moved drotate.exe screen shots to this thread.

[DaOld Man]

Drotate.exe:
It is for DOS only, but you can look at it in Windows, you just wont be able to turn on outputs.
Let me know what you think.
If enough people like it, I can write it again to be Windows compatible.
(The Windows version would need the driver Koz319 recommends.)

Edited: 01/11/08... Moved drotate.exe screen shots and download file to this thread.

[DaOld Man]

I changed the following screens a little:
Screen shot #1 is now displayed if you type drotate s  at dos command prompt.
Second is printer port diagnostics (change the name a little, and added port addresses).
Third is I/O assignments.

Edited: 01/11/08... Moved drotate.exe screen shots and download file to this thread.

[DaOld Man]

I received my order form all Electronics today, and my 33 optos from ebay. Seems the post office had screwed up and been delivering my mail to the wrong box.
I will try to post some pics and prices later.
I did get some #25 chain, and a plastic sprocket, but the sprocket doesnt fit my motors shaft, so I may have to do a little rigging..

[bfauska]

I'm looking forward to seeing another implementation of the mechanics involved in this process, each one has some great features, and they usually build on all the versions done prior (Except Cornchip's, most people don't manage to imporve on his system very much.)

Bummer about your mail too, I bet you gave the ebay seller hell, I know I would have, and then I'd find my foot lodged half way down my throat.  Oh, well, at least you can edit any bad feedback and you got your stuff.

[DaOld Man]

Yeah, I agree about Cornchips setup.. Its very good.

Fortunately, I had not left feedback for the guy on ebay yet.
He never sent me an email to confirm that I had won, and he never sent me the shipping notice, and he wouldnt answer my emails.
In my last email (sent last Friday), I told him I was going to file a claim if I didnt get the item or hear from him by Tuesday. Im glad I noticed I hadnt received any bills for the month on Monday. Decided to wait and see if the order from him got screwed up by the post office.
I gave him a positive mark, but low mark on communication.
The user name is trendcomp, in case anyone else deals with him (a lot of positive comments).

Now I have 39 optos. (I ordered 6 from All Electronics)
Its always nice to have a few optos in the junk box, so Im happy.

Now I just got to find time to assemble my interface board.
Maybe this weekend..

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I got a little bit of work done on the isolator interface last night.
Here is a picture of the pc board with most parts placed on it.
I have 6 TIL119 opto isolators, relay diodes, terminal strips and status leds placed on the board.
In the picture, along the left are terminal strips for the two rotation limit switches, a SPDT auto/manual switch, and two manual rotate buttons.
On the top are two terminal strips for degauss and monitor off relays. (I havent decided yet what I want to do, so Im leaving the door open.)
Directly below those terminals are two surge diodes for the relays.
To the right of that are 4 leds. These will tell me if I am getting the signals from the printer port.
Right down the center are the 6 opto isolators.
To the right of the board are the auto/manual switch I am thinking of using, and a cherry micro switch with a roller on it. I am thinking of using this type switch for my limits.
Cost thus far:
H Drive cost: 20.65

These parts are from Allelectronics.com:
PC Board (Part # PC-4): 2.00
2-Pos. PC teminal block (TER-202) 4 X .45 each: 1.80
3-pos. PC term block (TER-203) 2 X .60 each: 1.20
Shipping : 7.00

Cost of 6 TIL-119 opto isolators: 1.50
(I ordered 33 from ebay with shipping total price = 8.39, so they cost me about .25 each)

Total thus far: $34.15

The switches, diodes, and leds were in my junk box so I dont know what they cost.
It kinda gripes me about allelectronics orders shipping cost, but I aint getting on that soap box again.
I did order more parts with that order, which I may use on this project if I do, I will add the cost of those in later. The shipping is already covered if I do use them.

[DaOld Man]

Finished the isolator today.
I originally used 1K resistors to pull the input to ground, but this wasnt enough. I had to go back and solder 2 K ohm resistors in parallel with the 1 Ks. This brought the resistance down to about 670 ohms.
Note to KOZ319: If you can make your program look for an input going low instead of going high, it will make the circuit a lot easier.
Here are some pics..
1st pic is board fully assembled. (Before I added the 2 K resistors).
2nd pic is iso-board with H drive attached (riding piggy back).
3rd pic is isoboard connected to motor and power supply and dos computer.
Now I can start to concentrate on the rotating mechanics.

[DaOld Man]

Here is a crude picture of how everything hooks up. (I made this to remind me when I hook this up later. Probably much much later..)

[theCoder]

One possible reason why you have not had many downloads of the code is there probably is not that many people building a rotating monitor systems at this time.  Also, "DOS only" may be an issue.  Over time, you'll probably get plenty of hits.

Great job on documenting the project.  This should help someone else out down the road.

[csa3d]

One possible reason why you have not had many downloads of the code is there probably is not that many people building a rotating monitor systems at this time.  Also, "DOS only" may be an issue.  Over time, you'll probably get plenty of hits.

Great job on documenting the project.  This should help someone else out down the road.

I agree with both statements.  I can tell you that I'm following every update in this thread on a surface level, and am sure if/when I get around to motorizing like I'd like to, this thread will become invaluable.  Thanks for being as detailed as you have been.

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for the kind comments.
One of the power transistors failed on my H Drive. I was testing my circuit on the DOS machine. The drive wasnt being told to come on, but I noticed the motor turned about a quarter turn then stopped. Then I noticed one of the transistors got very hot, then the AT power supply shut down. I tried to shut it off when I noticed the transistor was hot, but I guess I wasnt fast enough.
Now whenever I hook power to the H drive it shorts out the power supply.
I think one of the transistors shorted, and took out it's opposite mate.
I guess Im glad it did it now instead of after I had in mounted in the cab and using it.
I plan to tear it down sometime today and test the transistors. I am thinking I may have stressed the transistors when I was playing around with PWM on them. They got pretty warm then. (See a previous post.)
I also am taking the H Drive inputs to 12 VDC + through 5 K ohm resistors. I may need to use much higher resistors. (I plan to experiment with the drive when I fix it to see if I can use much higher resistors.)
Now I need to order more transistors, or I am thinking of building a drive from two relays.
The relay drive could be a demonstration to those wanting to go that route.
The relays would be more expensive than replacement transistors, and I "just like" the H drive. But relays would be much more rugged and since I dont plan on using speed control, the PWM wont be an issue.

[javeryh]

One possible reason why you have not had many downloads of the code is there probably is not that many people building a rotating monitor systems at this time.  Also, "DOS only" may be an issue.  Over time, you'll probably get plenty of hits.

Great job on documenting the project.  This should help someone else out down the road.

I agree with both statements.  I can tell you that I'm following every update in this thread on a surface level, and am sure if/when I get around to motorizing like I'd like to, this thread will become invaluable.  Thanks for being as detailed as you have been.

-csa

Same here.  I'm definitely going to try this with my "Wife-Friendly Arcade" but I'm a ways off from actually attempting it.  I have been following the progress here and I will be asking a ton of questions when I actually start.  Thanks for keeping such a detailed account of your progress...   

[DaOld Man]

I had to loose the 4 leds on the right side of the board. Seems these were dropping the voltage to the opto isolators and making the circuit do some crazy things. I think it was oscillating, outputs turning on and off very fast. This might have been what fried my H drives transistors.
With the leds out, the circuit appears to be a lot more stable.
Also I found a bug in my drotate.exe program. Its not reading the inputs correctly.
So Im removing the download from here, will re-post it later when I have time to figure out the bug in the program.
Now I need to order some more transistors for the H drive..
Man this project is going to wind up costing me more than I got in the whole arcade cab (LOL), Well, it's no where near that right now.
Ive got two 3PDT 12 volt relays in my junk box, maybe I will throw together a relay drive.
I know the opto isolators will turn on the relays, I have already tested that.
So, I may have some new pics soon! (Wish me luck, everything I touch lately has let smoke out of something.)

[DaOld Man]

I threw together a relay drive based on a schematic I posted in a different thread.
If anyone wants to do this, let me know, I will post the schematic here.
I mounted two 12 VDC 3PDT relays on a piece of mdf board. (This is just a quick test job.)
First pic shows the relay drive connected to a motor. The red wire is 12 VDC pos supply, black is 12 VDC negative supply.
Brown wire is rotate clockwise signal, white wire is rotate counter clockwise signal.
I placed the H drive beside it to give you a size comparison.

I hooked the relay drive to the AT power supply, the motor, and the opto isolator board.
It works as expected.
Using Drotate.exe on my dos machine to test it, the motor rotated as it should have.
I didnt wire a braking circuit into this drive, I dont think I need it.
The only complaint I have is the space this drive will take compared to the H drive.
But if you can wire up a control panel, you can wire this type drive.

The second picture is showing the relays removed and the wires between the two sockets.
(Sorry about the mess, I was in a hurry and this was just a test job.)

Also I will post the schematic wiring diagram upon request.

[csa3d]

I threw together a relay drive based on a schematic I posted in a different thread.
If anyone wants to do this, let me know, I will post the schematic here.

Nice!  Can you URL link the other thread here at least for documentary sake

Code: [Select]

[url=http://www.hyperLinkGoesHere.html]Click here to go there text![/url]

[DaOld Man]

Sorry bout that..
Here is a link to the thread that I first posted my drawing for the relay drive..

Click here

Please note that the original drawings are different from what I just threw together.
The CWR and CCWR relays are the same, but Im using the opto isolator interface board to turn them on. Plus I didnt use a braking resistor on this.

I just ordered some transistors form mouser today. Hopefully I will get my H drive repaired early next week. I went ahead and ordered some bolt-on heat sinks for the transistors.
I tested the transistors and Q2 and Q4 were shorted. All other parts look good.
Not sure what happened, but Im going to have a fear in the back of my mind now..
I ordered enough transistors today to build another H drive. I may need a spare, just in case.
I think if I hadnt already spent the bucks on the H drive, I would just go with the relays.
I also think that if someone wants to build the relay drive, you can use solid state relays to interface the big relays to the printer port.
Might get pretty expensive, based on H drive and isolator circuits, but it would be a lot simpler for those who dont want to get in to a different hobby.

[DaOld Man]

I have been playing around with mala on my desktop PC.
I have the relay drive/isolator board plugged into my PC.
Im using the mala plugin that KOZ319 wrote.
It works great, except the I dont think the time limit will be enough. I cant find anyway to change that on the plugin. (Hint Hint KOZ319).

I have been working on a program in VB6 that is very similar to my drotate.exe program.
I think it will be nice to be able to assign the inputs and outputs you want to use, plus be able to vary the time limits.
I just dont know how I would make this into a mala plugin.
Koz319, it would be neat if your plugin had a small text file that one could change these settings in. (Similar to most ini files, IE glaunch.cfg) Please let me know if you are working on that for your plugin, if so I wont need to put any more time on mine.
An application should allow the user to select rotate time limits (in both directions), whether or not to turn off monitor during rotation, and whether or not to degauss the monitor. Plus, if you turn off the monitor during rotation, but still need to degauss it when it comes back on, an optional pause time needs to be deployed, to allow time for the monitor to power up before degaussing.

I plan to use a normally closed contact on a relay to turn off the monitor.
This has two advantages. It allows the program to output a signal only when the monitor needs to turn off. And if something fails, the monitor will be on all the time, not off.
(Fail safe so you can still play certain games until you find time to fix the problem).

[koz319]

Im using the mala plugin that KOZ319 wrote.
It works great, except the I dont think the time limit will be enough. I cant find anyway to change that on the plugin. (Hint Hint KOZ319).

I think it will be nice to be able to assign the inputs and outputs you want to use, plus be able to vary the time limits.
Koz319, it would be neat if your plugin had a small text file that one could change these settings in. (Similar to most ini files, IE glaunch.cfg) Please let me know if you are working on that for your plugin, if so I wont need to put any more time on mine.

I actually have already updated the plugin  (and the cmd line prg) to support a cfg file.  It allows you to set all the timeouts, degauss, pin assignments, trigger on hi or lo etc.  I was fiddling around with basic PWM for speed control as well.   I'll post it when I get home tonight - I might leave out the PWM for now because I really haven't had a chance to test it.

I'll post it on my site as well.

Thanks!

Koz

[DaOld Man]

That sounds great Koz319!!
I am going to modify my isolator board to bring inputs to ground.
I plan to use a 100 ohm resistor to tie the input to ground through the opto isolator.
Please post your plugin as soon as you can. I am interested in the command line version too. This might be what GLaunch users need. (I wont need the PWM version).

I went by Radio Shack today, and they have a 10 amp relay which is DPDT for about 10 bucks. The one I looked at comes with a socket too.
A DPDT relay will work for the relay drive, but you wont be able to use a braking resistor.
So for around 25-35 bucks (including cost of opto isolators, resistors, and printer cable), you can build a relay drive.
I started to go ahead and buy the relays and start a new thread showing how to build a relay drive using those relays, but I dont really need it, and I didnt want to throw the money away.
But if someone would like to pay me back for what I have in it, I can do it, and whoever buys it will have a ready made drive.
I may go ahead and make the thread anyway, using information on the relays from the radio shack website. (Warning... more crappy paint pictures ahead! )

[DaOld Man]

OK, here is a very simple drawing I threw together using two radio shack DPDT relays.
Model: 275-218  |  Catalog #: 275-218
These relays have solder lugs on them, so you can solder directly to the relay, but I highly suggest you use a socket. Attach your wires to the socket, then if something happens to the relay 5 years down the road, just unplug and plug in a new one.
Heres the socket: Model: 275-220  |  Catalog #: 275-220
(On the website, I couldnt find the relay/socket combo they have at my store.)
Anyway, the picture is not as complicated as it may first appear.
The drawing on top is the schematic, with pin numbers that are on the relays. (As best as I can tell from the picture anyway).
The bottom part shows the relays wired in real life. I used different colors for the wires to help you distinguish between them.
I highly suggest you use the diodes D1 and D2. These can be just about any general purpose 1 amp diodes (Radio Shack Model: 1N4003  |  Catalog #: 276-1102)
I am not showing the circuit that turns these relays on, but if you touch the CCW signal wire to power supply + the motor will turn CCW (if not reverse the motor leads). If you touch the CW signal wire to + the motor will turn in opposite direction.
Touch both signal wires to + and the motor does nothing.
You can use a SPDT switch or pushbuttons to turn these on.
You can also interface these to your printer port, but not directly.
They will need to be turned on through opto isolators, or transistors. If you go this route then diodes D1 and D2 are a must.
Or you could use a SPST N.O. solid state relay. It will take two. The printer port signal turns on the solid state relay, and the solid state relay turns on CWR or CCWR.

[DaOld Man]

I hope everyones having a great weekend.
I got the new parts for my H Drive from mouser.com yesterday. That was super fast shipping.
I plan to repair the H Drive tomorrow afternoon. The place that pays me to show up required that I show up this weekend, 12 hours yesterday and 12 hours today.
Once I get the H drive back online, I plan to throughly test it.
Then I can begin to decide what mechanism I am going to use to transfer motion from motor to monitor.
There are a lot of good ideas on this forum. I am studying them.
Also, I plan on using a 21" CRT monitor, but Im not 100% sure that I have enough room in my cabinet.
I have a 19" CRT I can fall back on if I have to.
I plan to place my CRT on my bar (since its too cold outside now) and play around with it. Turn it, measure it, hook it to a spare PC and see how it all feels.
I will try to post more pictures soon.

[DaOld Man]

Here is drotate.exe in zipped form.
I think I got all the bugs worked out.
I also added an option on the I/O section.
You can choose whether to look for inputs going high or low. (Thanks for the idea, Koz319).
Remember, you might be able to look at in windows, but it will only act right with the printer port in DOS.
Please let me know if you find any bugs or discrepancies..

Edited: 01/11/08... Moved drotate.exe screen shots and download file to this thread.

[DaOld Man]

I installed the two transistors on my H drive.
Everything seemed to be working good, until I tried to turn on both directions at once. (This should just brake the motor.)
The other two transistors (not the ones I just changed), got extremely hot and shorted out.
I am just about ready to go with the relay drives. This part of the project is taking a lot longer than I had planned.
Anyone got any ideas as to what is going on with my H drive?
I double checked my wiring, it looks good.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I have thought about this until my head hurts. I think I will just use the relays for the drive.
I already have everything I need, and they work perfectly with my already built isolator board.
I plan to post the finished drawing of my isolator board (I made some modifications from the original).
I also plan to talk to a friend of mine who is an electrical engineer about the H drive.
Maybe he can tell me where Im going wrong. But I decided that I just cant take the risk of this thing failing on me during one of my "show off the arcade" parties. (I think you all know what I mean.)
So, I plan to assemble the relays and opto board on a block of wood and call this section finished. So then I can move on to the hard part, making the monitor turn..
(More pics soon, I promise)

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I talked to my engineer friend and he thought that the transistors definitely need to be heat sinked.
Also, he said since the circuit was designed for logic signals (0-5 VDC), that the 12 volts from my isolator board may be too much.

Ok, so here is my plan now:
I am going to rebuild the drive from the extra parts I bought.
I am also going to use 5 vdc from the AT power supply to power my isolator board. I have already tested it and I think it will work on 5 volts. (I was worried about the two isolators switching the inputs to the computer, since I calculated the resistors at 12 volts.)
The only draw back will be having to use 5 VDC relays for the monitor on/off instead of the 12 volt ones I already have.
My new H Drive will have heat sinks. (My common sense told me to use them the first time, but its not the first time I didnt listen to common sense.)

If this one fails, Im going with the relays and thats that!

With Christmas coming up Im not going to have much time to work on this project, so updates may be a little slow.
I would like to hear if anyone else is working on a similar project, and if anyone is using my relay circuit. I know people are working on rotating the monitor, but are you working out the electronics like I am at this stage?

[DaOld Man]

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and a good New Years eve.

I am finally updating this thread.
I have built another H drive. It is the same as the first one, except I added some pretty hefty heat sinks to the power transistors. I also changed the isolator board a bit.
I added a dual terminal for the 5 VDC power. I also re-wired the isolator board to look for the limit switches pulling the inputs to low.
I hooked it to my dos machine and tested it using drotate.exe.
It all looks good now.
First pic is the H drive mounted piggy back to the isolator board. Its connected to an old AT power supply and a motor.
Second pic is my dos machine.
Next step: rig up the 21" monitor I plan to use and play around with it a bit.
This is my plan:
The first machine I built was called "Benny B's Arcade".
It has a 17" crt monitor in it now.
I plan to redo this arcade. (Add trackball, put on heavier plexi glass, and a few more things).
I plan to mount the 21" monitor in Benny B's, if it will fit. I am still not sure it will fit.
I plan to start a new thread on the progress I make re-doing Benny B's Arcade.
But I also plan to keep this thread going until I am satisfied I have a rotating monitor setup finished.

[DaOld Man]

Here is an updated drawing for the isolator board.
I didnt change R8 and R9 when I changed supply volts from 12 to 5. It appears to be working, but if you build this same circuit and use a 5 volt supply, I suggest you change these two resistors to 100 ohm.

[DaOld Man]

Here is modified hook up diagram.

[DaOld Man]

Here is a picture of how my drive will hook up to everything. I could only find one pushbutton and one roller limit switch, so i did a little copy and paste. I may not use those switches anyway, but it should give you an idea how simple this will be to hook up.

[DaOld Man]

And here a couple of close up pics of the drive. (first is not good quality).

[Jimbo]

Looking good!

My own rotating circuit is kind of stuck at the moment. I have a half-finished circuit that I need to add the speed controller for the drill motor then actually get round to mounting the thing and testing it out!  Its also a bummer for me that the Hantarex Polo monitor I'm using only degausses on cold starts.  I've emailed them to get more info on whether its possible to interface to the neckboard to degauss using a signal... here's hoping!

How are you actually mounting your monitor btw?

 

[DaOld Man]

Thank you.

Do you plan to control the speed of the drill motor, or just the direction. Direction should be pretty easy, using relays.
If you need some help, I would be glad to help, if I can.
You can also use a relay to turn off the monitor while its rotating, when the rotate finishes, the relay will turn the monitor back on, then if it auto degausses that should work..

About the hardware to actual position the monitor:
I havent started on that yet. My garage is not heated, so most work like that will be put on hold until I can catch some warm days when I dont have to work.
But I plan to copy most of the other methods people use, and that is, cut a circle out of mdf or ply, then mount the monitor to that.
I plan to remove the monitor from its case and mount it to the wood with 4 bolts.
(Check out the attached picture of the way I mounted my last one, which does not rotate.)
Im not going into specifics yet, because I want to give links to threads of the ideas I will use, to give the persons the the rightful credit. I will give those links when I implement the ideas.

Can you post the make/model of your drill, and a drawing of how you are wiring it? Or pm me and I will give you my email, if youd rather mail it to me. (Thats if I can help.)

Anyway, good luck, and keep us all posted...

[DaOld Man]

I hooked everything up to the 21" Dell trinitron I was planning to use. (On the back it has "Ultrascan P991").
With the screen turned vertical, mspacman is huge!
Anyway, the screen degausses each time the monitor is turned on, so the degaussing shouldnt be an issue, since I plan to turn off the monitor while rotating it.
I do see a problem with the monitor. It has very thin lines, white in color, first line running diagonally from upper right corner to the left, dropping about 1/2 inch. The next line is about 1 inch below the first, following the same pattern. More lines follow each spaced about an inch apart, filling the height of the screen.
These lines are not real noticeable, but I dont like it.
On Zaxxon, the ship kinda shifts shape when it passes through one of the lines.

Anyone know what could be causing these lines?

[DaOld Man]

Over in the monitor forum, kevin suggested I adjust the screen volts pot.
I took the case apart and only found one easily accessible pot, it is marked VOL1, (Or maybe VOL I). I tried adjusting it with the monitor on, the lines sorta scrunched up closer together, but it didnt eliminate them.
I googled the monitor and found out that this is a 19" not a 21" monitor.
A friend of mine gave it to me, he said it was a 21". As heavy as the thing is, I didnt argue with him.
But I just measured it, it's right at 18" viewable area.
So... I think I will still use it, IF I can get the lines out of the screen.
My other option is to buy an LCD monitor, 19 or 20" would work out great. Be lighter, and probably a lot easier to rig up to turn, BUT.. it will cost me... 

[DaOld Man]

Heres some pics..
Mspacman in vertical screen.
Mspacman in horizontal screen.

[Jimbo]

Can you post the make/model of your drill, and a drawing of how you are wiring it? Or pm me and I will give you my email, if youd rather mail it to me. (Thats if I can help.)

Will send PM soon   cheers

[Neverending Project]

I had the same problem when I turned my monitor vertical, although my picture was barely there, and the lines were much more visible. Adjusting the "screen" knob on the HVT solved it for me.

The problem I found, however, was that I would adjust the screen knob, but then as the monitor got warmer the picture would wash out again and the lines would return.

I eventually mounted my monitor horizontal and the problem went away. But here is my forum post with the same issue. Hope it helps!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71585.0

[richms]

The dell and other trinitron rebadges are well known for that problem, you also cant adjust it down to give you a black.

There is a menu to change it on some, and on others you need to make up/find a serial cable to edit the eeprom of the monitor with the configuration.

Google for sony windas cable for details on making the cable and getting the software. I got 3 dell 21s with "horizontal lines" like that and tweeked them up nice as new. Makes for a decent res desktop monitor too

[DaOld Man]

wow, thats great information!
I tried the OSD menu already, I cant get it to do much through that.
I got to get me one of those chips now and build the Rs-232 interface.
I will let you know how this turns out.
Thanks!!!!!
 

[Cornchip]

   I have a similar monitor that has Sony parts inside (HP 1130). When I decased it I noticed the 4 pin connector and wondered what it did.

 Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

I downloaded windas and all the support dll files.
(get ready to spend some time on this if you decide to do it.)
Google windas and you should find loads of info on how to do this.
I already had an RS232 to TTL interface that I made to program my nutchip.
But the windas program keeps giving me ECS errors, which I have gathered from the websites that this means something wrong with the interface.
So I just ordered a proper kit from here:
Clicky
If I can fix this monitor with the 10 dollar kit, it will be well worth it.
I will let you know how this turns out.

[DaOld Man]

The windas program worked! Thanks richms for that helpful info on the windas utility.
The monitor looks great now. I had to take the G2 value from 98 to 83.
Im still playing around with the settings, but now I have a black background in GLaunch, whereas it was blue. The lines are gone now too.
The interface kit is pretty simple to put together, took me about 15-20 minutes.
Im going to put the monitor through some rigid tests before I commit it to my project.
Next up on this project:
Cut out the discs that the monitor will fasten to.

[Cornchip]

   I'd imagine quite a few of the rebaged 'Sony' monitors have gone to the dump needing nothing more than this fix. You're lucky that richms happened to recognize the problem. Hope it's going fine from here.

 Cornchip.

[richms]

A while back I was taking these off peoples hands for peanuts, tweeking them and selling them after giving them a wipedown with some armourall to make them shine again for $140-$200 - shame that the cheap lcds have blown that idea away now

[DaOld Man]

Neat idea.
Do you suggest I tweak any other adjustments, besides G2?

[richms]

No, on ones with geometry problems I have only ever made it worse, not better so those are best left alone IMO.

The G2 problem is that the code in the processor to deal with the tube aging and to turn it up was way to agressive, once its turned back down they give years more service with an awesome picture

[DaOld Man]

I have the measurements on my arcade, and its going to be close, but I think I may be able to fit the 19" monitor into the cabinet. I may have to extend the back part though, to allow for the butt end of the bigger monitor.
Heres some pics:
First is Benny B's Arcade. I plan to do a lot of work to this. Another thread will be started to document my work on it.
2nd pic is the 17" monitor that i currently have in Benny B's.
3rd pic is the 19" P991 monitor. It has a metal "cage" around it, and I like that. Less chance of me frying myself on the high voltage.
I plan to cut two discs from MDF to mount the monitor to, just like most people on here have done.
The result will be a spool with the monitor inside. (Unless I change my mind before I fire up the router).
I cant think of a better way to do it.
Its just too dang cold out in the garage right now.

[grbgemen]

   I'd imagine quite a few of the rebaged 'Sony' monitors have gone to the dump needing nothing more than this fix. You're lucky that richms happened to recognize the problem. Hope it's going fine from here.

 Cornchip.

funny you should say that.  my family owns a garbage route here locally and about month ago, we finally through out our old dell 19" trinitron monitor that suffered from the problem states above.  as the blade was coming down to pack the truck, i thought to myself, i bet its an easy fix.  then i said screwed it and crushed it.    oh well.

[DaOld Man]

Just a quick update to show that I haven't dropped off the face of the earth, or thrown this project off the edge of the earth.
I dont think I will have enough room to put the 19" CRT monitor in Benny B's cabinet.
Also, I have found that when I place the motor I intend to use near the monitor, even near the back of it, where I plan on mounting it, the strong magnets of the motor skews the screen just a tiny bit.
Degaussing appears to fix it, but I dont know what the long term affects will be.
So today I placed an order for a 19" LCD TFT monitor. Its not new, but it is supposed to be good, we shall see.
I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.
Anyway, heres the link to the LCD, if anyone is looking for one..
http://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=R19W12R

Dont know how long these will last..

[csa3d]

I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    

Do keep us posted!  I'm currently planning to hand rotate mine until I see something that doesn't look like a science fair project.

-csa

[weisshaupt]

I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    

Do keep us posted!  I'm currently planning to hand rotate mine until I see something that doesn't look like a science fair project.


-csa

I Actually just completed such a project. All easily sourceable parts, with a  program that does the rotation automatically and at a setable speed .. With an LCD Momentum becomes a much bigger problem than with a CRT...

See http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

or the wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Weisshaupt%27s_LCD_Mechanism

[Cornchip]

  Great workmanship. I think you pretty much did everything in one project when you built it.

[javeryh]

I was thinking of using a Lazy Susan.

[weisshaupt]

I was thinking of using a Lazy Susan.

That should work fine -- probably better than what I did as it integrates all of the pieces together into one.  The plate for the large pully, the pivot axle and a solid mounting point.  It will also probably give you enough of a side surface you can turn it buy using the motor either by going along the surface of the plat of onlong its edge.. Only thing I would worry a little about is the friction in the mechanism when mounted sideways-- a good lazy susan wouldn't care, but cheap ones often tend to bind if put at an angle. Of course you have that way overkill motor so it probably wont matter a bit.

My mechanism is partly the way it is because I originally tried to drive it with a belt.. -but the torque in my little hobby motor was insufficient to pult the monitor with only a 6 inch radius pulley.. But now that you bring it up.. maybe I need to change it to use a lazy susan... oh wait- It ain't broke. I Shouldn't fix it right?

[javeryh]

Heh - I think yours is fine as is.  I was looking at some lazy susans and for about $25 you can get a real nice wooden one that supports up to 700lbs!!!  I'm thinking the 15lb. LCD monitor will be fine even if it is turned on its side.  Plus, since it's made out of wood, mounting things to it like switches and motors should be a snap...

[DaOld Man]

I am thinking of using a lazy susan bearing for mine. Home depot has one on their website for about 7 bucks.
The closet store is 30 miles from me, so i will probably make the trip this weekend to pick it up, also some small casters to use on the front part of it.

The LCD monitor came in yesterday. I didnt have a lot of time to try it out before having to go to work, but I did hook it up. It looks pretty good. It is a 19" widescreen, and Im wondering if the widescreen might be too much for mame games. I can set it to run in regular mode, with dark lines along each side in horizontal.
I may do that, and cut the bezel to come up to the edges of the screen.
Also, it displays a message each time something changes (Example: "AUTO SETUP").
I can move the message to a corner, but I still dont like it. The message only displays for a few seconds, so I guess I can live with it. Its a V7 R19W12, if anyone has had any experience with these, I would appreciate your input.
I cant find how to turn off the message. It is used and didnt come with a manual.
Screen looks real good though. I havent found any dead pixels yet.

[weisshaupt]

It is a 19" widescreen, and Im wondering if the widescreen might be too much for mame games. I can set it to run in regular mode, with dark lines along each side in horizontal.

I am not sure a widescreen (16:9) monitor is the best choice for a cabinet. Most games used either a 4:3 or 3:4 orientation or something close to it.  You will probabyl end up with significat sized black bars in both horizontal and vertical orientations..
I also suspect you will have large momentum problems with a screen a lot wider than it is high...

[DaOld Man]

I am not sure a widescreen (16:9) monitor is the best choice for a cabinet. Most games used either a 4:3 or 3:4 orientation or something close to it.  You will probabyl end up with significat sized black bars in both horizontal and vertical orientations..
I also suspect you will have large momentum problems with a screen a lot wider than it is high...

I am worried about the widescreen, but I dont think momentum will be a problem with the motor I am using.

[DaOld Man]

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    
-csa

Since the LCD is incredibly light (compared to the CRT), I am thinking of making a "spool" out of two pieces of MDF.
I plan to sandwich the lcd between the two round pieces. Attach a lazy susan bearing to the back piece of spool.
On the front half on the spool, allow it to ride against some "smallest that I can find" casters. Much the same way as everyone else.
This is not my idea, and I got to search older posts to find who gave it to me, but I plan to fasten a 2 foot piece of #25 chain to the perimeter of the back spool. Then have the motor with a #25 sprocket attached, turn the monitor by pushing against the chain.
If you already have yours setup to turn manually, looks to me like it would be pretty simple to attach a motor to it, but not knowing exactly what you have, I could be wrong.
I have attached a paint drawing of my intentions.
I may have to use two front spool pieces to bring the monitor out flush with the monitor panel.

[DaOld Man]

After playing around with the LCD this morning, I have found that I can set the monitor to display in the regular screen mode, it has bars along the sides in horizontal, and on top and bottom when turned vertical. I can fix that by extending the bezel to the edge of the visible part.
BUT.. when vertical, the screen does not have much angle view to it. Moving to the left, approx 25-30 degrees, the screen becomes very undesirable. If the screen is horizontal, the viewing angle is much greater. I guess the manufacturers dont think someone will be turning the monitor vertical.
Weisshaupt, do you have this problem with yours?

Im not sure I will be able to live with this flaw on my arcade.
So what do I do? Go back to the CRT and modify my cabinet to fit?
I can still use the spool idea on my CRT, as a matter of fact it should be better for the weight of the CRT.
Its just going to stick out the back of my cab.

[weisshaupt]

Since the LCD is incredibly light (compared to the CRT), I am thinking of making a "spool" out of two pieces of MDF.
I plan to sandwich the lcd between the two round pieces.

I think this is probably more work to implement, unless you really need the cutout around the monitor to attach a Bezel to it. Having a masking bezel in front and side bezels attached to the monitor worked really well for me, and I didn't have any need to cut a large circle with a hole in it to exacting precision. Simply attaching one cutout (possilby the plate the lazy suzan comes with) to the back of the monitor via the VESA mount and affixing lazy susan bearing to it and to the cabinet should be sufficent. I don't think you would need any casters, unless there is a lot of play in the lazy susan bearing. LCDs have the advantage of having the Vesa Mounting holes in the back and really won't need any more support than that.  VESA mounts take M4 metric screws (so you don't have to go figure that out....) 

I like the chain and sprocket idea- that should counteract any momentum problems, and should allow for some pretty accurate positioning as long as the sproket/chain are a good fit. (Mine ain't broke- don't fix it, mine ain't broke- don't fix it, mine ain't...)
 

[weisshaupt]

After playing around with the LCD this morning, I have found that I can set the monitor to display in the regular screen mode, it has bars along the sides in horizontal, and on top and bottom when turned vertical. I can fix that by extending the bezel to the edge of the visible part.
BUT.. when vertical, the screen does not have much angle view to it. Moving to the left, approx 25-30 degrees, the screen becomes very undesirable. If the screen is horizontal, the viewing angle is much greater. I guess the manufacturers dont think someone will be turning the monitor vertical.
Weisshaupt, do you have this problem with yours?

Its a problem with all LCDs to a greater or lesser extent. Probably more so with widescreens, which manufactures assume will stay in that aspect. My particular display (an 20inch 4:3 Acer) starts to fade out at around 45 degrees, becoming more unviewable the farther you go.. You could still play a game from the left position, but I wouldn't enjoy it. So the Far left position on my arcade is really useless for any vertical games. The fade out is less severe to the top of the monitor-so the Right position is till fine.  I haven't done an exhausive search to see if there are any 3-4 player vertical games that my cabinet would not be good for, but I know there aren't any I play regularily. My player 1 and player 2 positions  have no issues - the front CP is 25 inches wide and the edge of the CP is about 20 inches from the screen  .  Usually manufacturers will tell you the off-angle specs on their data sheets. My Acer is LCD 20" 8MS AL2017 ABMD - and its spec rating were:150 degrees Horizontal / 130 degress  Vertical according to the Acer site.

If possible I think I would return that 19 widescreen (or press it into service elsewhere...) and get a 4:3 monitor with off-angle specs you can live with.. No need to pay for Pixels you are not going to use
I got mine for fairly cheap at Newegg.. but they don't seem to carry my exact model anymore. They do  have a 19 inch Acer model AL1916 which is rated for  140 degrees horizontal and 140 degrees vertical,

There is also a Samsung 940BX that claims 170/170 degrees, but I have no way of judging what that really means.. but maybe I should get one..... (it ain't broke. don't fix it....it ain't broke...)

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for the info on the monitor angles..
The monitor has an excellent picture, so I dont think I will have any problem getting my money back if I decide to put it up for sell, I cant return it because they have a 20% restocking fee, plus I would have to pay for shipping. 
I build computers for people, so if nothing else Im sure I can use it on a future build. So no problem there.

Anyway, I originally designed the spool to use with my CRT, which would require some front support, I probably wouldnt need it for the LCD, mounting it like you suggested.
I would really like to use the CRT, but the size is an issue for my already made cab. Also the motor has strong magnets, and I was seeing some picture distortion on the CRT.
Plus, as I suggested earlier, the chain idea is not mine, but I do like it..

[weisshaupt]

Thanks for the info on the monitor angles..
The monitor has an excellent picture, so I dont think I will have any problem getting my money back if I decide to put it up for sell, I cant return it because they have a 20% restocking fee, plus I would have to pay for shipping. 
I build computers for people, so if nothing else Im sure I can use it on a future build. So no problem there.

Anyway, I originally designed the spool to use with my CRT, which would require some front support, I probably wouldnt need it for the LCD, mounting it like you suggested.
I would really like to use the CRT, but the size is an issue for my already made cab. Also the motor has strong magnets, and I was seeing some picture distortion on the CRT.
Plus, as I suggested earlier, the chain idea is not mine, but I do like it..

There is a reason many folks run with a CRT, authenticity being number 1. But  the extra weight, degaussing and shielding (from the motor) issues certainly make that more difficult. Trades offs abound in life. Ditching the Spool means less room required to rotate the screen, and less fabrication required.  My plate on the back of mine is only as wide as the monitor casing.. You could even get a larger LCD, but anything greater than 20 inches tends to be stupidly expensive at this point.

I used LCD primarily because I needed the weight reduction so I could pull the top off for use with my projector. I am sure I won't do it often, but its nice to have the ability.. Plus I really dreaded building a degausing circut..

[Cornchip]

  Am I  reading this correctly? LCD's when rotated to the vertical posistion view differently at the same angle from left to right. I really had no idea that viewing angles were so important with LCD's.  I have a LCD  (Acer 19") at work that I'll be looking at in the morning.

[DaOld Man]

I dont know about your monitor. I suggest you turn it up vertical and try looking at it in different angles.

[Ritalin]

  Am I  reading this correctly? LCD's when rotated to the vertical posistion view differently at the same angle from left to right. I really had no idea that viewing angles were so important with LCD's.  I have a LCD  (Acer 19") at work that I'll be looking at in the morning.

Unless you buy a monitor that's made to be rotated.
I have a Dell 1905FP (19" LCD) that comes with a really amazing stand.
The stand has a small footprint and rotates to horizontal or vertical and locks into position.

Since it's made the be rotated, the viewing angles in any direction are spot on.

[DaOld Man]

Well, I think Im done buying LCDs for this project.

Im by no means poor, but I think I have just about reached my budget for this project, so it's back to the crt I think.

[Cornchip]

 I looked at the LCD I have at work this morning. Nothing wrong with it horizontal. Rotate it and it's not bad 15 degrees to the right (facing the screen) and washing out immeadiately as you go left. I honestly didn't think this was a problem. Worth checking out if your LCD views decently when rotated.


 Cornchip.

 Note....the LCD that I have is a LG 1918S. I wouldn't recommend it for this use.

[javeryh]

I use a Dell 19" LCD mounted vertically in my mini arcade and it looks great.  I plan to use the same one in my new project that I will be rotating.

[DaOld Man]

I highly suggest to anyone thinking of using an LCD on their vertical or rotating project to test the monitor they are thinking of using before buying it!
That means no ordering off the net, unless you have tried a friend's monitor and you are sure it is the exact same model.
Im sure this warning is somewhere on this board, but I dont remember seeing it.
Maybe we should make a new thread with just this warning and make it a sticky?
I know 100-200 bucks for a new monitor that wont work may be a project killer for most people.

[weisshaupt]

I highly suggest to anyone thinking of using an LCD on their vertical or rotating project to test the monitor they are thinking of using before buying it!
That means no ordering off the net, unless you have tried a friend's monitor and you are sure it is the exact same model.
Im sure this warning is somewhere on this board, but I dont remember seeing it.
Maybe we should make a new thread with just this warning and make it a sticky?
I know 100-200 bucks for a new monitor that wont work may be a project killer for most people.

I feel somewhat bad I didn't think to warn you about the viewing angles. I put a more explicit warning in the WIKI.
Having first hand information is always best, but I suspect that checking the specs before hand will give a pretty good indication of what will/won't work. (I am very tempted to replce my Acer with that Samsung with 170/170 viewing angles.  )  Did you get to check the specs on your wide screen-- did they claim something very off from what you were observing?

[Cornchip]

   Some great screen comparisons between different makes of LCD's. Below is an  'extreme' example of what you might see. The LG I tried wasn't too far off this example.

Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks CC..
The one on the lower right is the view you would get if playing games with the monitor turned vertical.
People should realize this before they place an order for one.

[DaOld Man]

This weekend I made a trip to Home Depot and bought a 6" lazy susan bearing.
Cost: $4.91.
I also picked up a 72" length of 1/4"X20 threaded rod. $2.74

Link to the bearing

Here is a pic:

[DaOld Man]

Bumped to dust off the moth balls.. (Do moths have balls?)

Anyway, I hooked up my isolator board to test a mala plugin for Loadman that he is developing.
I got the fever again. This project must be finished!
I have some time off from work next week, so I plan to cut out the circles of mdf that i plan to mount the monitor to.

I am going to have to rewire my isolator board. I need the inputs powered on all the time so I can use loadman's plugin to start the mala screen rotated with the monitor position on startup.

Still need bearings or rollers. May go with cheap roller skate wheels.

[Zobeid]

I looked at the LCD I have at work this morning. Nothing wrong with it horizontal. Rotate it and it's not bad 15 degrees to the right (facing the screen) and washing out immeadiately as you go left. I honestly didn't think this was a problem. Worth checking out if your LCD views decently when rotated.

 Note....the LCD that I have is a LG 1918S. I wouldn't recommend it for this use.

I looked up the specs on that monitor, they say viewing angle 160 degrees horizontal, 160 degrees vertical.  Looking at those numbers I would never have imagined viewing angle could possibly be a problem.  Are the official viewing angle specs for monitors basically worthless for our purposes, then?

The one I've had my eye on is rated: up 80deg, dn 75deg, lt 80deg, rt 80deg.

For whatever it's worth, my ancient Apple Cinema Display has excellent viewing range in all directions.  I can rotate it (using a special stand I had made) and it's no problem.  I had sort of naively assumed that LCD viewing angles were a long-ago solved problem.

[csa3d]

Still need bearings or rollers. May go with cheap roller skate wheels.

I've been in the garage since Friday since I had off.  The roller skate wheel bearing trick is where it's at!  I've got updates coming, but I want to ensure everything works before posting.. stay tuned

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Today i picked up a skateboard bearing set at Toys R us for around 12 US bucks.
It is 8 bearings and 4 sleeves. Probably wont use the sleeves.

[danny_galaga]

bearings worked well in my situation (",)

[javeryh]

Still need bearings or rollers. May go with cheap roller skate wheels.

I've been in the garage since Friday since I had off.  The roller skate wheel bearing trick is where it's at!  I've got updates coming, but I want to ensure everything works before posting.. stay tuned

-csa

I can't wait to take a look at what you've done!

[DaOld Man]

Ok, I made a rig to allow my router to cut out the circles I need for my rotating project.


First I laid out my dimensions.
I marked the holes for the lazy susan bearing, and the 4 holes for the monitor to bolt to. And of course a center hole.
I stacked the marked board on top of another.
I then drilled a 1/4" hole in the center through both boards. I then ran a 1/4" carriage bolt through both.
Counter sunk a hole in top board for 1/4" nut.
I also drilled the holes for the lazy susan bearing through both, installed 4 screws in the holes to fasten the two boards together. Counter sunk the screws in the top board.


heres another shot of the lazy susan bearing. The nail marks one of the monitor mounting spots.


Next a got a piece of mdf wide enough to mount the router to.
It was actually about 1-1/2" wider than the base of the router.
I drilled a 1/4" hole in the center, then stuck the router bit through the hole.


Next I marked the base of the router.


Next I routed out about 1/4" so the router can set down into the wood. base is pretty snug.
I then mounted two 3/4" conduit clamps to hold the base of the router. The 1/4" bolts for the clamps are counter sunk on the other side of the wood.
I then bored out the router bit hole to 1-1/4". This gives more room for dust to get out.


The router clamped to the wood.


Next I flipped the rig over and marked the location of the inside edge of the router bit.
This will give me a reference to measure my circle's radius.
Notice how the conduit clamp bolts are counter sunk.


Next I measured from the inside side of the router bit to get my mark for the pivot hole.
My circle needs to be 23" diameter, so I measured 11.5" radius.


Ok, rig is mounted to the board to be cut.
It pivots good. Im happy.


First cut is finished. I went about a 1/4" deep first. Vacuumed the slot and allowed router bit to cool.


Three passes later and Im done with my first circle. Measures exactly 23" diameter.


Now, first cut on the bottom piece.
This circle will be in the back of the monitor, and the lazy susan bearing will mount to it.
The scrap I had wasnt enough to make two complete pieces. This circle will have a flat spot. I may not be able to make it work, if not, I will have to buy a new sheet of mdf and cut another one.


Here are both pieces finished. Mickey seems pleased.

Next: Got to cut out the monitor hole in the first piece.

I like the circle cutting jig. Its got a special place on the wall of my shed. i know I will be using it again.


Edited for spelling and grammar.

[psychotech]

Looking really good!

Keep up the good work.. You know I will (and we'll) be watching you

Nice! 

[csa3d]

Pretty fancy jig there!  What kind/size of router bit were you using for this?  Looks like you have a plunge router, no?  Not yet sure what method I'm going to use for my fixed router    Yay for all the rotating projects happening right now!  Go go go!

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Pretty fancy jig there!  What kind/size of router bit were you using for this?  Looks like you have a plunge router, no?  Not yet sure what method I'm going to use for my fixed router    Yay for all the rotating projects happening right now!  Go go go!
-csa

Thanks!
Yes, it is a Black & Decker 1-1/2 HP plunge router. Very handy.
I used a 1/4" straight cut router bit. It left a 1/4" space between the circle and the panel.
It would have been better if I had a smaller bit, but I didnt.

[javeryh]

Very nice job!  I did what you did but upsidedown (but got the same results)!

I mounted a piece of MDF to my router base.  Then I mounted it upsidedown on my workbench.  Next I drilled a pilot hole on for a pin so I could spin a piece of MDF on it to cut out a circle.

 

[DaOld Man]

Thanks javerhy!

I looked at the way you did yours, and it gave me the idea for mine. It is really the same, and I could flip mine over like you did yours. I am going to keep the circle cutter jig. I can drill more pivot holes and cut out a circle from about 4 feet diameter down to right up to the edge of the router base.
This may come in handy when I finally get around to building that jukebox.

[DaOld Man]

I didnt get a lot done today. been threatening thunderstorms all day.
I did get the holes to mount the monitor drilled in both circle plates.
I intend to run four bolts through the first plate, through the monitor mounting tabs, and through the back plate.
Here are some pics of the monitor plate mounted to the monitor, so I could mark it to cut out for the screen



This is a pic of the side of the monitor (camera was turned sideways.) you can see the line I made with a sharpee marker.


Here is the front of the monitor plate. I attached it with 1/4" carriage bolts.
I put paper towels over the screen to protect it from scratches.


And here is the side. You can see the black mark. This is where I will cut for the monitor to fit into the plate.

[csa3d]

Ahh, yes.. rain as an excuse!    Are you planning to still find tiny wheels to suppliment the skate bearing?  Your rig has me wondering, if one couldn't route a shallow groove into the side of a disk, then use bolts and bearings ONLY to keep the whole thing balanced, using the bolt as the axis, and the bearings as a guide.  Curious to see how this thing ends up fitting onto the rotation rig.  Hopefully, a rain dance will keep the moister away tomorrow

-csa

[DaOld Man]

 
Right, right..
I am planning to use just the bearings, But Ive run into two problems.
The bearing shafts are going to be very close to the edge of the wood, due to the 1/4" slot between the disc and the monitor board.
And the bearing I.D. looks like it might be metric. A 5/16" bolt has too much play, and a 3/8" bolt doesnt fit.
So I got to take the bearing into work tomorrow night and try some metric bolts to get the right size, then I got to see if I can find some metric all-thread. I dont want to have to machine a piece, but I may have to, if i use these bearings.
Im not sure I understand what you are talking about with the grove and bolt? Are you talking about my circle cutting rig?

I will talk to my ancestors, see if they can do that rain dance..

[csa3d]

Im not sure I understand what you are talking about with the grove and bolt? Are you talking about my circle cutting rig?

one the side edge of the wooden disk you just cut out, I'm proposing taking a router, and cutting into the side of the disk, create a channel the depth of the bearing.  If you're mounting your monitor in an upright position, you could then take some bolts and a bearing, and place one on either bottom side of the disk mount at 4:30 and 7:30 on a clock.  These bearings mounts would fit into the side grove you cut out, like a train track, keeping the weight off the bottom of the spinning disk and main bearing, while also preventing side to side play.

Make sense? Awesome ansi art to follow..


      ____
    /         \
   |  disk   |
  o\_____/o

the O's are the side bearings I speak of, holding up the weight of the main disk, slightly embedded into a routed out side channel.

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Well, I have something like that planned. But since Im using a pretty heavy CRT, I dont know about the slot. It may weaken the wood.
But I picture is worth a hundred words, so as soon as I get it laid out I will post some pics.

Those bearings I bought are giving me fits. The ID is slightly larger than a 8 mm bolt.
I checked a hardware store, and they didnt have any 9mm bolts, and 10 mm is way to big.
I checked at work and we have 8 and 10, no 9.
Whats up with that??

Anyway, does anyone have specs on these bearings? I cant seem to find the ID anywhere on the net.
I sure hope I dont have to make something on the old lathe. I was hoping to keep this project "parts you can get at the store".

On a different note.
I am thinking of putting something on the edge of the MDF disk to make it harder, so maybe it will wear longer.
(It will be running against the bearings.)
I really dont know what it will be, maybe elmers wood glue?
Something that would soak into the MDF and harden.
Hmmmm

[Franco B]

Awesome work 

Some quality projects on the go at the moment 

[Cornchip]

    Skateboard axle's are an industry standard 8mm (should be). The threads on a 8mm bolt will measure slightly less than a perfect 8mm (.315) giving that loose fit.

[DaOld Man]

Ok thanks..
I used a 8 mm shoulder bolt, the shoulder should be a scant larger than the thread area, but even on the shoulder the bearing has a bit of play.
What size bolt did you use on your project?

[Franco B]

The thread OD prior to screwcutting/threading wants to be about 7.95mm or there abouts.

If you want any bolts etc made to some custom dimensions just give me a shout and I would be happy to help (no charge).

[Cornchip]

  I used 4 shoulder bolts (1/2" dia x 3/4 lg). I didn't use bearings inside the roller wheels. Instead I used a plastic called UHMW that is classified as a low speed bearing material. I didn't use a metal lower roller due to the noise that it probably would have created with metal to metal contact (the monitor disk is made from 1/4" Aluminum x 28" in dia). Rubber would have flat spotted with the small contact area between the monitor disk and the roller (wouldn't want to get my finger pinched there!). The UHMW has held up great thus far.

 The only bearing in my assembly is a pillow block bearing at the rear. That bearing is for the drive gear and controls the monitors position front to back in the cabinet. The rollers (at the front) only control the monitor wheel centering acting only on it's diameter....not the front or rear faces on the monitor disk. The rollers have a radius groove cut into the outside diameter that the wheel rides in.

 I found a picture I might not have posted before. It doesn't clearly show the rollers up close, but does show the front portion of the setup with the rollers mounted.


 Cornchip.


 Edit...found a better picture as seen from the back.   

[DaOld Man]

If you want any bolts etc made to some custom dimensions just give me a shout and I would be happy to help (no charge).

Thanks Franco B!!
That is a very generous offer.
I may holler at you soon.
I have playing with this bearing at work, and I think 5/16" or 8 mm shoulder bolts will probably work, maybe I just need to lower my toloerances a little.
But I wont be able to use the all thread idea I originally had.

[DaOld Man]

Cornchip:
Im sorry I think I got your project confused with the one csa3d is doing..
Thats a good idea on the plastic rollers. I think I will try that if the bearings dont work.
We have some material at work that looks like that. I might get a piece of scrap and make some rollers.
BTW, you did an excellant job on your cabinet...

[csa3d]

What size bolt did you use on your project?

If you were asking me (I was confused as well), then I used a 2" by 5/16" threads.  I converted 8mm to inches using google, then turned 5/16" into a decimal, then subtracted the two numbers.. and determined the margin of difference would affect the project very little.

Now also remember my monitor will be a lot more horizontal then vertical.  If I was going to mount this vertically, I think I would probably used a longer bolt and thicker wood, so that tilt would be minimized a lot more.  I'm not sure my 1" bearing is a adequate enough for a vertical mount without some sort of secondary balance, be that rollers, felt pads, or whatever.

-csa

[Cornchip]

  Opps....

[DaOld Man]

I have hooked my isolator board and H drive to my computer I plan to use for my project.
I have seen some behavior on bootup that is different from my desktop computer.
As best I can tell:
While the machine is booting, all outputs come on (I was expecting that), then all go off except for pin 2, which appears to stay on for a few more seconds.
This is highly undesirable for my project.
I am gathering parts to build a test box so I can actually see what all outputs are doing.
Right now with my isolator board I can only watch pins 2,3, 5 and 6.
Do all computers act differently with the printer port on bootup?
This could be either very interesting or very aggravating.

I have developed a small program that will allow you to turn on and off the printer port outputs, and monitor the inputs.
I also have a PWM process built in if you want to play with speed control.
Here is a screenshot, PM if you would like to try it out.

[weisshaupt]

While the machine is booting, all outputs come on (I was expecting that), then all go off except for pin 2, which appears to stay on for a few more seconds.
This is highly undesirable for my project.

There are some registry hacks for windoews that will keep it from trying to autodetect anything on the Parallel port ( I googled them, found them, used them and lost them again)  If your Bios is doing it there is little you can do, other than use some sort of timed relay that kills the outputs till the pc reaches a certain state...

[DaOld Man]

Yeah I know.. I went through the same problem when I first started this project.
(Several posts back).
On my desktop all outputs came on for a few seconds, then all went off.
I wired a fix for that in my isolator board,  using a PNP transistor that cut the ground off to the opto isolators if Pin 7 was high, but evidently on this other computer pin 2 is staying high longer than the others, because pin 2 comes on after a slight pause and stays on until Windows starts to load. Since I am using pin2 for one of my drive's directions, this aint gonna fly.
I wont be able to tell for sure what is going on until I get my output tester built, then I can monitor all of them.

[DaOld Man]

Ive been playing around with my printer port tester.
I changed it a bit to allow me to adjust PWM "on the fly".
Ive been able to get my motor speed down to about 1 RPM
Remember though, that my motor has a gearbox. Output at full speed is about 55 RPM.
Here is a screen shot of my latest printer port tester.
I added checkboxes so you can choose which output(s) to pulse for PWM.
I also added buttons to increase/decrease speed in increments of 1 and 50.
I added ability to change input scan time.
I also added a couple of blinky lights to tell that the inputs are being updated.


edited to show a better screenshot

[DaOld Man]

I have been playing around with Pulse Width Modulation using my printer port tester.
I have found that about the slowest I can efficiently get out of my motor is a pulse of 38 milliseconds off and 8 milliseconds on.
I can take it slower than this, but the motor jerks pretty bad.
Im estimating the RPM at this PWM to be approx 10 RPM.
My motor is very hefty, and it has a gearbox, I think a small motor would run a lot smoother at low speeds.
The power transistors on my H Drive are getting pretty warm at this speed. I can see now why the transistors failed on my earlier tests. My first H drive had no heat sinks on the power transistors.
I can see where the transistors will fail under these conditions without proper heatsinks.
I probably wont need speed control on my setup, but it is fun experimenting with it.
I wonder how this program would work on the secret motor driver the LCD guys are working on?

[DaOld Man]

Just a quick update.
I may have to redesign my rotate design.
The machine I plan to install it in (Benny B's Arcade), is very short on room in the monitor area. 
When I built Benny B's, I never thought I would be installing a rotating monitor.
I almost decided to go back and make the original monitor installed in it (17") rotate.
Nah, I like challenges. It's gotta be the 19". Too far to turn back now. (or is it???)
So I got to get out the saws and do some re-constructive work on Benny B's.
Pictures soon, soon I say!

[koz319]

Is the depth of the monitor the issue?

  The 21in.  CRT I put in mine (an old NEC Multisync) was freaking huge.  I did a bit of planning/playing with the tilt of the monitor to reduce it's footprint front to back.  There was no room to attach anything to the rear of the monitor, so I went with a 2 'wooden wheel' setup.  I attached a couple pics, I have some better ones somewhere I will try to find.

Have fun!

Koz

[csa3d]

I attached a couple pics

Those rollers are and support bar design are pretty "official"!  Are those inline skate wheels?  What are those fat, vertical support wheels?  Very interesting..

-csa

[DaOld Man]

Is the depth of the monitor the issue?

  The 21in.  CRT I put in mine (an old NEC Multisync) was freaking huge.  I did a bit of planning/playing with the tilt of the monitor to reduce it's footprint front to back.  There was no room to attach anything to the rear of the monitor, so I went with a 2 'wooden wheel' setup.  I attached a couple pics, I have some better ones somewhere I will try to find.

Have fun!

Koz

Thanks for the pics Koz319.. you were one of my best inspiration suppliers.
I think my problem is the space between my CP and the speaker panel.
I think I am going to have to cut out my speaker panel and slide the whole monster up a little.
If I could even put it in the 17" space, my monitor would go below the control panel when turned vertical, so I dont see any other choice.
Im not really worried about it sticking out the back of the cab yet. My cab sits in a corner, so most likely no one will see it. but I know I cant leave it like that, I may have to build a back extension to my cab.
Its been very hectic at work lately and I havent had much time to work on this project.
So im not real sure how it's going to turn out yet.
Please post more pics of your setup if you have them. Very interesting stuff.

[Jimbo]

Hey there!

Great progress!   The way you cut out the wheel to mount the monitor to has inspired me to re-do the way I did mine (originally with a Jigsaw - the first bit of woodworking I ever did) but I love your router way so am gonna do that to get a perfectly round circle.  At the moment on mine it doesn't rotate smoothly at all!

My monitor is mounted at 45 degrees which although it does make the cab a bit deeper, it still doesn't affect it too much, and it fits nicely between the CP and speaker panel, and is a nice angle to look at (I think).  Having more of an angle might mean you can lower the monitor a bit so it starts slightly below the control panel, and you'll still be able to see the whole screen when playing.  Feel free to check out my plans (in my project thread). Not sure how you're mounting your monitor but it may help (even if its to help you decide what NOT to do! LOL )

[DaOld Man]

Hey there!

Great progress!   The way you cut out the wheel to mount the monitor to has inspired me to re-do the way I did mine (originally with a Jigsaw - the first bit of woodworking I ever did) but I love your router way so am gonna do that to get a perfectly round circle.  At the moment on mine it doesn't rotate smoothly at all!

My monitor is mounted at 45 degrees which although it does make the cab a bit deeper, it still doesn't affect it too much, and it fits nicely between the CP and speaker panel, and is a nice angle to look at (I think).  Having more of an angle might mean you can lower the monitor a bit so it starts slightly below the control panel, and you'll still be able to see the whole screen when playing.  Feel free to check out my plans (in my project thread). Not sure how you're mounting your monitor but it may help (even if its to help you decide what NOT to do! LOL )

Thanks for the comments Jimbo. I was pretty pleased with the circle cutting jig.
I have checked your thread out, but it has been a while. Guess I need to go through it again..

[DaOld Man]

Ok, after much much time on this project I think I can say it is finished.
I appreciate all the tips, advice and help from all you guys, plus I appreciate everyone's patience with this extremely drawn out post.

First of all a look at the front, horizontal position.



I dont have plexi glass in front of the screen yet, that is coming.

Here is the front, in vertical position:



Here is the back. i went with plywood for the back, you cant see it, but there is a lazy susan bearing between the ply and the back circle of MDF.
The hole in the middle is to let the cords exit, and to allow air to flow to the back of the monitor.



And here is the other side of the back, you can see teh motor mounted to teh plywood and teh H drive and interface board mounted below it.




Here is the back, with the monitor off relay mounted and wired into the monitor power cable.
You can also see an AT type power supply.



Here is one of the skateboard bearings, with the front MDF disk riding against it.
I used 5 bearings on the front disk, and two on the back.



And here is one of the back bearings, riding against the back MDF disk.
Notice the #25 chain attached to the perimeter of the disk.
This is how the motor turns the disk.
The end of the chain also provides a mechanical stop when it gets to the bearing.



Here is the motor drive. The nylon sprocket rides in the chain, and pulls the MDF disk clockwise and counter clockwise.
This setup works well, but it is a little noisey.



Here are the limit switches. These are paddle micro switches, like the kind used on some joysticks.
I put a screw through the MDF disk to strike the switch paddle when the desired position is reached.
The switches are wired back to the isolator board mounted on the back.



And here is a side view. The monitor is sandwiched between two round MDF disks.
The disks are attached with 1/4" all thread bolts.
I had to use nylon cord as bracing to keep the disks from twisting when turning.
This worked out better than I expected.



You can also see in the last picture a block mounted to the front disk.
I cut out a circle of black poster board, then cut out the monitor screen in this disk.
This disk attaches to 4 of these blocks.
You can see this setup better in the first two pictures.

Im using a mala plugin that Loadman made for me. This plugin calls my program, mrotate.exe, which turns the motor on and waits for the monitor to reach its new position. If it doesnt reach the limit within a customizable time, it will turn the motor off.

The monitor takes about 12 seconds to turn from horizontal to vertical, then about 10 seconds vertical to horizontal.
The monitor off relay turns off the monitor while it is rotating.
I had provided an output for this relay, but it is not working, I think it may be a bad opto isolator.
Rather than to take the H drive off the isolator board to gain access to the chip, I just wired the 12 volt relay to the H drive output. This works good because Im not using speed control.

The motor stops good and holds the weight of the monitor, probably because of the right angle gearbox, and the large ratio between the motor gear and the MDF disk, so I dont need a brake.

The whole monitor unit is self contained. I have installed it in Benny B's arcade. It doesnt fit perfectly, and I will need to modify the cabinet to look good. But it is working great.
I plan to document this modification in my thread I started earlier:

Extreme makeover: Benny B's Arcade

So stay tuned to that thread.

Thanks again for everyones input. The idea of the lazy susan was not mine.
Neither was the idea of the chain around the perimeter of the disk.

Im sure there are other ideas I borrowed too. maybe I will go back and give everyone proper credit here soon..

I like the rotating monitor. It is 19" CRT monitor so the vertical looks like a very big improvement with vertical games.

If I build another cabinet, I may go ahead and incorporate the rotating monitor in it. But I may try an LCD monitor next time.

[weisshaupt]

Congrats on getting this finished. Looks great!

Did loadman write a new program that made it more customizable, or is it the same one you had before?

[csa3d]

There you go!  Good work on that!  Good use of those bearings as well.  Some questions:

1.  Can you elaborate a bit more about the chain/sprocket combo?  How did you mount the chain to the side of the disk?  Where does one acquire these chains and sprockets?  Probably a bit much for a hobby motor, eh?

2.  I see you went with the MDF wheel.  Decided that the pressure from the bearings wouldn't indent the unit?

3.  Any chance of getting a YouTube vid posted

Thanks!
-csa

[DaOld Man]

Congrats on getting this finished. Looks great!

Did loadman write a new program that made it more customizable, or is it the same one you had before?

Thanks Weisshaupt.
Sorry for the late reply, I just got back from Cancun Mexico, and yes, the weather was perfect..

Loadman made a plugin for Mala that will call the program I made.
It passes a 0 or a 90 with the run command, based on which way the game needs the monitor turned.
I wrote the program called mrotate.exe.
I plan to use this program with other front ends too, such as Glaunch (a man never forgets his first love, right?)
I plan to write an interface program for glaunch.
My program has a GUI which the user can choose inputs and outputs, also time limits, and braking control.
Also I have started on assigning up to two outputs as lights, in case anyone wants to turn on an led while the monitor is rotating. You can also choose which action the light will take, such as blink or on steady..
I got a couple of bugs that need to be worked out, maybe now that Im back home I can pick up where I left off on it.

[DaOld Man]

There you go!  Good work on that!  Good use of those bearings as well.  Some questions:

1.  Can you elaborate a bit more about the chain/sprocket combo?  How did you mount the chain to the side of the disk?  Where does one acquire these chains and sprockets?  Probably a bit much for a hobby motor, eh?

2.  I see you went with the MDF wheel.  Decided that the pressure from the bearings wouldn't indent the unit?

3.  Any chance of getting a YouTube vid posted

Thanks!
-csa

Thanks CSA, that means a lot to me..
Sorry about the late reply. (see above reply to Weisshaupt.)

1. The chain is a number 25, which I bought off allelectronics.com.
I think it is 2 foot length.
I attached it to the edge of the mdf disk with a screw in each end of the chain.
I also put two small screws on either side about halfway up the chain. These keep it from sliding off the edge of the mdf.
This was someone else's idea, I really need to go back in the posts and give proper credit.
The sprocket I also got from allelectronics. It is a #25 (cant remember the number of teeth.)
It is nylon. This might be a bad thing. While I was setting it all up, the mdf disk got caught on something and the sprocket slipped on the chain for a few seconds until I could get to the power switch. This wore the teeth down some. I think I will try to see if I can find a metal sprocket.

2. Yes I used MDF and roller skate bearings. I coated the perimeter (edge) of the MDF disk with CPVC glue. It dried to a very hard finish. Im not sure how it will wear over time, but so far no visible signs of denting at all.

3. I have never posted anything to You Tube, but I will see what I can do.

I had to carve up Benny B's Arcade some to get the unit to fit, so Im kinda ashamed to show it right now, but I may anyway, if I can figure out how to do it.

Here is a previously posted picture of the chain. Maybe you can blow it up and see more how I did it. I will try to get better pics later..

[DaOld Man]

Here is the link to the sprocket I used:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GR-87/SPROCKET-FOR-25-CHAIN/-/1.html

And here is the chain:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CHN-25/-25-ROLLER-CHAIN/-/1.html

[weisshaupt]

My program has a GUI which the user can choose inputs and outputs, also time limits, and braking control.
Also I have started on assigning up to two outputs as lights, in case anyone wants to turn on an led while the monitor is rotating. You can also choose which action the light will take, such as blink or on steady..
I got a couple of bugs that need to be worked out, maybe now that Im back home I can pick up where I left off on it.

So your program is command line driven? Does "braking control" mean PWM? I guess my question goes more to "Should I withdraw my MALA Plugin?" Is sounds like yours is going to do everything mine does, be more flexible, will have a nice GUI (as opposed  to my text file driven confg) and could be used with multiple emulators..  (Emulaxian/3Darcade would want to send you a 3x4 or a 4x3 instead of 0 and 90)

I would rather see the community settle on a "standard" method and having multiple programs that do the same thing would be detrimental to that.

p.s. Why do you want to turn on an LED during rotation? Just as a test mechanism? (I  set one up on my bread board for that reason)

[DaOld Man]

My program has a GUI which the user can choose inputs and outputs, also time limits, and braking control.
Also I have started on assigning up to two outputs as lights, in case anyone wants to turn on an led while the monitor is rotating. You can also choose which action the light will take, such as blink or on steady..
I got a couple of bugs that need to be worked out, maybe now that Im back home I can pick up where I left off on it.

So your program is command line driven? Does "braking control" mean PWM? I guess my question goes more to "Should I withdraw my MALA Plugin?" Is sounds like yours is going to do everything mine does, be more flexible, will have a nice GUI (as opposed  to my text file driven confg) and could be used with multiple emulators..  (Emulaxian/3Darcade would want to send you a 3x4 or a 4x3 instead of 0 and 90)

I would rather see the community settle on a "standard" method and having multiple programs that do the same thing would be detrimental to that.

p.s. Why do you want to turn on an LED during rotation? Just as a test mechanism? (I  set one up on my bread board for that reason)

So your program is command line driven?
The following commands will do this:
mrotate = opens GUI, allows user to setup or change things.
mrotate 0 =runs the program in the background, rotating monitor to horizontal.
mrotate 90 =runs the program in the background, rotating monitor to vertical.

Does "braking control" mean PWM?
No, I decided not to go with PWM, although I could probably include if anyone wants it.
mrotate allows users to choose two ways of stopping the motor. (1) Apply both directions on for a set amount of time, and (2) turn off a relay which disconnects the motor from the drive and "shorts" the motor leads together, applying dynamic braking by using the motor as a generator while it is coasting.

"Should I withdraw my MALA Plugin?"
No, I dont think so. Your method works great with the small hobby motor that you guys use. Dont kill it just because there are other methods to do this. Let people decide what is best for them. It would be a shame to give up on the work you have put into it. This program was not made to take the place of yours. I have been working on this concept for a long time, it's just my baby I guess.

"(Emulaxian/3Darcade would want to send you a 3x4 or a 4x3 instead of 0 and 90)"
So are you saying instead of mrotate 0 I would need mrotate 4x3? I will need to modify my program to do this, but it shouldnt be a big deal. look for either 0 or 3x4 and either 90 or 4x3.


"I would rather see the community settle on a "standard" method and having multiple programs that do the same thing would be detrimental to that. "
Im all for that.

"Why do you want to turn on an LED during rotation?"
Well, it is purely optional, but someone may want an led to come on to indicate that the monitor is turning in the proper direction.
You can use one or two LEDs connected to the printer port outputs.
You can have each led flash in both directions, stay on solid in both directions, or do the same for just one direction, while the monitor is turning. It just adds a little pizazz to your control panel.
You can also alternately flash the two LEDS for a few seconds if you get an error, such as monitor timed out before making the limit switch.
Im not using this feature, but it's nice to know it's there if I want it.

In the GUI mode, you can also assign outputs for degauss and monitor off relays.
You can also assign a button on the control panel as a stop button, to turn off all outputs if something is not going right.  Im using ESCAPE. (This was very handy while I was setting up the mechanics of the monitor.)

Here is a screen shot of the LED section:

[DaOld Man]

And here is a screenshot of the braking section:

[DaOld Man]

While Im on a roll here,
here is a screenshot of the diagnostic log. mrotate keeps 3 logs of when it ran.

[DaOld Man]

Here is a screenshot of the stop button option:

[danny_galaga]

far out! good work. too technical for me. i really thought id want to have software rotate my monitor, but i think ill stick to my on-on toggle for now 

[weisshaupt]

far out! good work. too technical for me. i really thought id want to have software rotate my monitor, but i think ill stick to my on-on toggle for now 

Actually the programtic stuff that I and DaOldMan have done was the hard part.. All you would need to do is add the bits and pieces to get a +5V (almost no amp) signal to activate your switch... A single transistor system should be enough to buffer that for a relay, and most h-bridges should accept that as a logic signal...

And of course, those of us who have done it are happy to help out... I can't tell you how cool it is for this to happen automatically..

[danny_galaga]

actually, my motor is small enough that i can use a power transistor. two. but on the software side, i had trouble setting up mame32 when i first tried mame! so i suspect id be pulling my hair out...

[weisshaupt]

actually, my motor is small enough that i can use a power transistor. two. but on the software side, i had trouble setting up mame32 when i first tried mame! so i suspect id be pulling my hair out...

You may want to look into using Mala.. its pretty easy to set up and either mine or DaOldMan's/Loadmans plugin do all of the hard stuff for you.  All you have to do is wire up 2 pins from your pallallel port (don't have one, PCI cards are $10)  to your power transistors and the thing should just work...

[DaOld Man]

You will also need to wire the limit switches to the parallel port (2 more pins).
You have 8 outputs and 5 inputs available, so there are many options you can do.
If you are thinking of doing this (which sounds to me like you are not), I would suggest you read this thread and the others about rotating monitors all the way through.
Good luck, and like Weisshaupt said, if you need help, feel free to ask.

[weisshaupt]

You will also need to wire the limit switches to the parallel port (2 more pins).

I was kinda assuming that he had the limit switches already done (they cut off the power to the Transistors or whatever)  My first program turned on the port and left it on, and I had a hardware solution to do the limits...  You can basically do the same thing with my plug in by setting an appropriate timeout -- I assume its much the same with yours..

[DaOld Man]

Yes, it's basically the same.
I have a SPDT microswitch to tell when the end of travel is reached. (Two switches actually, one for CW and the other for CCW).

The switch turns off the input to the H drive, and at the same time turns on an input into the parallel printer port.
This effectively "kills" the H Drive, even if the printer output sticks on, but it also allows my program to monitor the rotation. This allows me to do a lot more with the software.
Using the switches in this manner was an idea first mentioned by Koz319. (At least I first heard of it from him.)
Hey, my memory is starting to come back.. The Mexican tequila must be wearing off.. LOL.
Maybe I can give proper credit to others now..

Side note: If anyone is interested in building a rotating monitor, you need to check out how Koz319 did it.
I got the plans to build the H drive from his site.
Also his software is very similar to mine, except mine has the fancy smancy GUI..
Koz319's site:
Koz319

Of course weisshaupt did a bang up job too:
Ghost in the machine

[danny_galaga]

You will also need to wire the limit switches to the parallel port (2 more pins).

I was kinda assuming that he had the limit switches already done (they cut off the power to the Transistors or whatever)  My first program turned on the port and left it on, and I had a hardware solution to do the limits...  You can basically do the same thing with my plug in by setting an appropriate timeout -- I assume its much the same with yours..

well, thats exactly what i need! limit switches stop the monitor and reverse polarity of motor for next rotation. i would just need a signal switched on and left on for one direction, then another signal and left on for the other direction. no time outs or anything needed. ill have my cab here by early next month (its in another state). maybe ill get some balls and give it a shot! mala works with win98 i imagine...

[DaOld Man]

well, thats exactly what i need! limit switches stop the monitor and reverse polarity of motor for next rotation. i would just need a signal switched on and left on for one direction, then another signal and left on for the other direction. no time outs or anything needed.

Then you may want to check out this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72380.msg746859#msg746859

[danny_galaga]

ah yes. i think i remember reading that thread too. my circuit doesnt need diodes, but it relies on a double pole single throw switch



now i think about it, my circuit is quite simple as is, but to modify that circuit with transistors would be messy. i guess i can use a change over relay in place of the switch which will only need one signal- on/off.

of course, once i get my cab here, i have to make it work again first...

[Blanka]

Oops!

[DaOld Man]

ah yes. i think i remember reading that thread too. my circuit doesnt need diodes, but it relies on a double pole single throw switch



now i think about it, my circuit is quite simple as is, but to modify that circuit with transistors would be messy. i guess i can use a change over relay in place of the switch which will only need one signal- on/off.

of course, once i get my cab here, i have to make it work again first...

Yes, I have read your first posts about your circuit. Very simple and should be a good way to go for manual only control.
You could use a relay to do the same, by swapping the switch with a DPDT relay.
I first thought about the notion of using one printer port output to rotate the monitor.
Output on, turn CW, output off, turn CCW.
But this method has some major drawbacks.
First that comes to mind is that if the output turns off for any reason, when it should be on, your monitor will take off.
Windows does crazy things with printer port outputs, and Ive seen different things on different computers.
I agree with Weisshaupts argument about using his or mine software.
You could also very easily use two relays as the drive. You can turn on the relays from the printer port via transistors of opto isolators.
Either of our programs doesnt have to see the limit switches, you can set each to turn off after a certain amount of time. But again, this has a few drawbacks too, but should work.
Anyway, good luck with your project and please keep us informed..

[DaOld Man]

Oops!

yeah I know.
I missed my calling..