Rotating monitor construction *Project finished*

[DaOld Man]

Over in the monitor forum, kevin suggested I adjust the screen volts pot.
I took the case apart and only found one easily accessible pot, it is marked VOL1, (Or maybe VOL I). I tried adjusting it with the monitor on, the lines sorta scrunched up closer together, but it didnt eliminate them.
I googled the monitor and found out that this is a 19" not a 21" monitor.
A friend of mine gave it to me, he said it was a 21". As heavy as the thing is, I didnt argue with him.
But I just measured it, it's right at 18" viewable area.
So... I think I will still use it, IF I can get the lines out of the screen.
My other option is to buy an LCD monitor, 19 or 20" would work out great. Be lighter, and probably a lot easier to rig up to turn, BUT.. it will cost me... 

[DaOld Man]

Heres some pics..
Mspacman in vertical screen.
Mspacman in horizontal screen.

[Jimbo]

Can you post the make/model of your drill, and a drawing of how you are wiring it? Or pm me and I will give you my email, if youd rather mail it to me. (Thats if I can help.)

Will send PM soon   cheers

[Neverending Project]

I had the same problem when I turned my monitor vertical, although my picture was barely there, and the lines were much more visible. Adjusting the "screen" knob on the HVT solved it for me.

The problem I found, however, was that I would adjust the screen knob, but then as the monitor got warmer the picture would wash out again and the lines would return.

I eventually mounted my monitor horizontal and the problem went away. But here is my forum post with the same issue. Hope it helps!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71585.0

[richms]

The dell and other trinitron rebadges are well known for that problem, you also cant adjust it down to give you a black.

There is a menu to change it on some, and on others you need to make up/find a serial cable to edit the eeprom of the monitor with the configuration.

Google for sony windas cable for details on making the cable and getting the software. I got 3 dell 21s with "horizontal lines" like that and tweeked them up nice as new. Makes for a decent res desktop monitor too

[DaOld Man]

wow, thats great information!
I tried the OSD menu already, I cant get it to do much through that.
I got to get me one of those chips now and build the Rs-232 interface.
I will let you know how this turns out.
Thanks!!!!!
 

[Cornchip]

   I have a similar monitor that has Sony parts inside (HP 1130). When I decased it I noticed the 4 pin connector and wondered what it did.

 Cornchip.

[DaOld Man]

I downloaded windas and all the support dll files.
(get ready to spend some time on this if you decide to do it.)
Google windas and you should find loads of info on how to do this.
I already had an RS232 to TTL interface that I made to program my nutchip.
But the windas program keeps giving me ECS errors, which I have gathered from the websites that this means something wrong with the interface.
So I just ordered a proper kit from here:
Clicky
If I can fix this monitor with the 10 dollar kit, it will be well worth it.
I will let you know how this turns out.

[DaOld Man]

The windas program worked! Thanks richms for that helpful info on the windas utility.
The monitor looks great now. I had to take the G2 value from 98 to 83.
Im still playing around with the settings, but now I have a black background in GLaunch, whereas it was blue. The lines are gone now too.
The interface kit is pretty simple to put together, took me about 15-20 minutes.
Im going to put the monitor through some rigid tests before I commit it to my project.
Next up on this project:
Cut out the discs that the monitor will fasten to.

[Cornchip]

   I'd imagine quite a few of the rebaged 'Sony' monitors have gone to the dump needing nothing more than this fix. You're lucky that richms happened to recognize the problem. Hope it's going fine from here.

 Cornchip.

[richms]

A while back I was taking these off peoples hands for peanuts, tweeking them and selling them after giving them a wipedown with some armourall to make them shine again for $140-$200 - shame that the cheap lcds have blown that idea away now

[DaOld Man]

Neat idea.
Do you suggest I tweak any other adjustments, besides G2?

[richms]

No, on ones with geometry problems I have only ever made it worse, not better so those are best left alone IMO.

The G2 problem is that the code in the processor to deal with the tube aging and to turn it up was way to agressive, once its turned back down they give years more service with an awesome picture

[DaOld Man]

I have the measurements on my arcade, and its going to be close, but I think I may be able to fit the 19" monitor into the cabinet. I may have to extend the back part though, to allow for the butt end of the bigger monitor.
Heres some pics:
First is Benny B's Arcade. I plan to do a lot of work to this. Another thread will be started to document my work on it.
2nd pic is the 17" monitor that i currently have in Benny B's.
3rd pic is the 19" P991 monitor. It has a metal "cage" around it, and I like that. Less chance of me frying myself on the high voltage.
I plan to cut two discs from MDF to mount the monitor to, just like most people on here have done.
The result will be a spool with the monitor inside. (Unless I change my mind before I fire up the router).
I cant think of a better way to do it.
Its just too dang cold out in the garage right now.

[grbgemen]

   I'd imagine quite a few of the rebaged 'Sony' monitors have gone to the dump needing nothing more than this fix. You're lucky that richms happened to recognize the problem. Hope it's going fine from here.

 Cornchip.

funny you should say that.  my family owns a garbage route here locally and about month ago, we finally through out our old dell 19" trinitron monitor that suffered from the problem states above.  as the blade was coming down to pack the truck, i thought to myself, i bet its an easy fix.  then i said screwed it and crushed it.    oh well.

[DaOld Man]

Just a quick update to show that I haven't dropped off the face of the earth, or thrown this project off the edge of the earth.
I dont think I will have enough room to put the 19" CRT monitor in Benny B's cabinet.
Also, I have found that when I place the motor I intend to use near the monitor, even near the back of it, where I plan on mounting it, the strong magnets of the motor skews the screen just a tiny bit.
Degaussing appears to fix it, but I dont know what the long term affects will be.
So today I placed an order for a 19" LCD TFT monitor. Its not new, but it is supposed to be good, we shall see.
I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.
Anyway, heres the link to the LCD, if anyone is looking for one..
http://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=R19W12R

Dont know how long these will last..

[csa3d]

I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    

Do keep us posted!  I'm currently planning to hand rotate mine until I see something that doesn't look like a science fair project.

-csa

[weisshaupt]

I dont want people to think Im coping out, but I truly believe the LCD will be much easier to rotate than the CRT.

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    

Do keep us posted!  I'm currently planning to hand rotate mine until I see something that doesn't look like a science fair project.


-csa

I Actually just completed such a project. All easily sourceable parts, with a  program that does the rotation automatically and at a setable speed .. With an LCD Momentum becomes a much bigger problem than with a CRT...

See http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

or the wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Weisshaupt%27s_LCD_Mechanism

[Cornchip]

  Great workmanship. I think you pretty much did everything in one project when you built it.

[javeryh]

I was thinking of using a Lazy Susan.

[weisshaupt]

I was thinking of using a Lazy Susan.

That should work fine -- probably better than what I did as it integrates all of the pieces together into one.  The plate for the large pully, the pivot axle and a solid mounting point.  It will also probably give you enough of a side surface you can turn it buy using the motor either by going along the surface of the plat of onlong its edge.. Only thing I would worry a little about is the friction in the mechanism when mounted sideways-- a good lazy susan wouldn't care, but cheap ones often tend to bind if put at an angle. Of course you have that way overkill motor so it probably wont matter a bit.

My mechanism is partly the way it is because I originally tried to drive it with a belt.. -but the torque in my little hobby motor was insufficient to pult the monitor with only a 6 inch radius pulley.. But now that you bring it up.. maybe I need to change it to use a lazy susan... oh wait- It ain't broke. I Shouldn't fix it right?

[javeryh]

Heh - I think yours is fine as is.  I was looking at some lazy susans and for about $25 you can get a real nice wooden one that supports up to 700lbs!!!  I'm thinking the 15lb. LCD monitor will be fine even if it is turned on its side.  Plus, since it's made out of wood, mounting things to it like switches and motors should be a snap...

[DaOld Man]

I am thinking of using a lazy susan bearing for mine. Home depot has one on their website for about 7 bucks.
The closet store is 30 miles from me, so i will probably make the trip this weekend to pick it up, also some small casters to use on the front part of it.

The LCD monitor came in yesterday. I didnt have a lot of time to try it out before having to go to work, but I did hook it up. It looks pretty good. It is a 19" widescreen, and Im wondering if the widescreen might be too much for mame games. I can set it to run in regular mode, with dark lines along each side in horizontal.
I may do that, and cut the bezel to come up to the edges of the screen.
Also, it displays a message each time something changes (Example: "AUTO SETUP").
I can move the message to a corner, but I still dont like it. The message only displays for a few seconds, so I guess I can live with it. Its a V7 R19W12, if anyone has had any experience with these, I would appreciate your input.
I cant find how to turn off the message. It is used and didnt come with a manual.
Screen looks real good though. I havent found any dead pixels yet.

[weisshaupt]

It is a 19" widescreen, and Im wondering if the widescreen might be too much for mame games. I can set it to run in regular mode, with dark lines along each side in horizontal.

I am not sure a widescreen (16:9) monitor is the best choice for a cabinet. Most games used either a 4:3 or 3:4 orientation or something close to it.  You will probabyl end up with significat sized black bars in both horizontal and vertical orientations..
I also suspect you will have large momentum problems with a screen a lot wider than it is high...

[DaOld Man]

I am not sure a widescreen (16:9) monitor is the best choice for a cabinet. Most games used either a 4:3 or 3:4 orientation or something close to it.  You will probabyl end up with significat sized black bars in both horizontal and vertical orientations..
I also suspect you will have large momentum problems with a screen a lot wider than it is high...

I am worried about the widescreen, but I dont think momentum will be a problem with the motor I am using.

[DaOld Man]

Absolutely.  Now comes the fun apart again, on figuring out how to spin it.  I keep hoping for someone to create an easy, d.i.y. Vesa mount to bicycle chain sprocket setup spun using something on the cheap, like a small cordless screwdriver.. you know, parts that you can find w/o having to order from catalogs and never getting to hold in person, at the retail store.  Chain and sproket, in my mind, would also allow you to keep the connecting parts minimal, and compressed enough to allow the setup to not extend very far about the back of the monitor, allowing for some pretty slim installs.    
-csa

Since the LCD is incredibly light (compared to the CRT), I am thinking of making a "spool" out of two pieces of MDF.
I plan to sandwich the lcd between the two round pieces. Attach a lazy susan bearing to the back piece of spool.
On the front half on the spool, allow it to ride against some "smallest that I can find" casters. Much the same way as everyone else.
This is not my idea, and I got to search older posts to find who gave it to me, but I plan to fasten a 2 foot piece of #25 chain to the perimeter of the back spool. Then have the motor with a #25 sprocket attached, turn the monitor by pushing against the chain.
If you already have yours setup to turn manually, looks to me like it would be pretty simple to attach a motor to it, but not knowing exactly what you have, I could be wrong.
I have attached a paint drawing of my intentions.
I may have to use two front spool pieces to bring the monitor out flush with the monitor panel.

[DaOld Man]

After playing around with the LCD this morning, I have found that I can set the monitor to display in the regular screen mode, it has bars along the sides in horizontal, and on top and bottom when turned vertical. I can fix that by extending the bezel to the edge of the visible part.
BUT.. when vertical, the screen does not have much angle view to it. Moving to the left, approx 25-30 degrees, the screen becomes very undesirable. If the screen is horizontal, the viewing angle is much greater. I guess the manufacturers dont think someone will be turning the monitor vertical.
Weisshaupt, do you have this problem with yours?

Im not sure I will be able to live with this flaw on my arcade.
So what do I do? Go back to the CRT and modify my cabinet to fit?
I can still use the spool idea on my CRT, as a matter of fact it should be better for the weight of the CRT.
Its just going to stick out the back of my cab.

[weisshaupt]

Since the LCD is incredibly light (compared to the CRT), I am thinking of making a "spool" out of two pieces of MDF.
I plan to sandwich the lcd between the two round pieces.

I think this is probably more work to implement, unless you really need the cutout around the monitor to attach a Bezel to it. Having a masking bezel in front and side bezels attached to the monitor worked really well for me, and I didn't have any need to cut a large circle with a hole in it to exacting precision. Simply attaching one cutout (possilby the plate the lazy suzan comes with) to the back of the monitor via the VESA mount and affixing lazy susan bearing to it and to the cabinet should be sufficent. I don't think you would need any casters, unless there is a lot of play in the lazy susan bearing. LCDs have the advantage of having the Vesa Mounting holes in the back and really won't need any more support than that.  VESA mounts take M4 metric screws (so you don't have to go figure that out....) 

I like the chain and sprocket idea- that should counteract any momentum problems, and should allow for some pretty accurate positioning as long as the sproket/chain are a good fit. (Mine ain't broke- don't fix it, mine ain't broke- don't fix it, mine ain't...)
 

[weisshaupt]

After playing around with the LCD this morning, I have found that I can set the monitor to display in the regular screen mode, it has bars along the sides in horizontal, and on top and bottom when turned vertical. I can fix that by extending the bezel to the edge of the visible part.
BUT.. when vertical, the screen does not have much angle view to it. Moving to the left, approx 25-30 degrees, the screen becomes very undesirable. If the screen is horizontal, the viewing angle is much greater. I guess the manufacturers dont think someone will be turning the monitor vertical.
Weisshaupt, do you have this problem with yours?

Its a problem with all LCDs to a greater or lesser extent. Probably more so with widescreens, which manufactures assume will stay in that aspect. My particular display (an 20inch 4:3 Acer) starts to fade out at around 45 degrees, becoming more unviewable the farther you go.. You could still play a game from the left position, but I wouldn't enjoy it. So the Far left position on my arcade is really useless for any vertical games. The fade out is less severe to the top of the monitor-so the Right position is till fine.  I haven't done an exhausive search to see if there are any 3-4 player vertical games that my cabinet would not be good for, but I know there aren't any I play regularily. My player 1 and player 2 positions  have no issues - the front CP is 25 inches wide and the edge of the CP is about 20 inches from the screen  .  Usually manufacturers will tell you the off-angle specs on their data sheets. My Acer is LCD 20" 8MS AL2017 ABMD - and its spec rating were:150 degrees Horizontal / 130 degress  Vertical according to the Acer site.

If possible I think I would return that 19 widescreen (or press it into service elsewhere...) and get a 4:3 monitor with off-angle specs you can live with.. No need to pay for Pixels you are not going to use
I got mine for fairly cheap at Newegg.. but they don't seem to carry my exact model anymore. They do  have a 19 inch Acer model AL1916 which is rated for  140 degrees horizontal and 140 degrees vertical,

There is also a Samsung 940BX that claims 170/170 degrees, but I have no way of judging what that really means.. but maybe I should get one..... (it ain't broke. don't fix it....it ain't broke...)

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for the info on the monitor angles..
The monitor has an excellent picture, so I dont think I will have any problem getting my money back if I decide to put it up for sell, I cant return it because they have a 20% restocking fee, plus I would have to pay for shipping. 
I build computers for people, so if nothing else Im sure I can use it on a future build. So no problem there.

Anyway, I originally designed the spool to use with my CRT, which would require some front support, I probably wouldnt need it for the LCD, mounting it like you suggested.
I would really like to use the CRT, but the size is an issue for my already made cab. Also the motor has strong magnets, and I was seeing some picture distortion on the CRT.
Plus, as I suggested earlier, the chain idea is not mine, but I do like it..

[weisshaupt]

Thanks for the info on the monitor angles..
The monitor has an excellent picture, so I dont think I will have any problem getting my money back if I decide to put it up for sell, I cant return it because they have a 20% restocking fee, plus I would have to pay for shipping. 
I build computers for people, so if nothing else Im sure I can use it on a future build. So no problem there.

Anyway, I originally designed the spool to use with my CRT, which would require some front support, I probably wouldnt need it for the LCD, mounting it like you suggested.
I would really like to use the CRT, but the size is an issue for my already made cab. Also the motor has strong magnets, and I was seeing some picture distortion on the CRT.
Plus, as I suggested earlier, the chain idea is not mine, but I do like it..

There is a reason many folks run with a CRT, authenticity being number 1. But  the extra weight, degaussing and shielding (from the motor) issues certainly make that more difficult. Trades offs abound in life. Ditching the Spool means less room required to rotate the screen, and less fabrication required.  My plate on the back of mine is only as wide as the monitor casing.. You could even get a larger LCD, but anything greater than 20 inches tends to be stupidly expensive at this point.

I used LCD primarily because I needed the weight reduction so I could pull the top off for use with my projector. I am sure I won't do it often, but its nice to have the ability.. Plus I really dreaded building a degausing circut..

[Cornchip]

  Am I  reading this correctly? LCD's when rotated to the vertical posistion view differently at the same angle from left to right. I really had no idea that viewing angles were so important with LCD's.  I have a LCD  (Acer 19") at work that I'll be looking at in the morning.

[DaOld Man]

I dont know about your monitor. I suggest you turn it up vertical and try looking at it in different angles.

[Ritalin]

  Am I  reading this correctly? LCD's when rotated to the vertical posistion view differently at the same angle from left to right. I really had no idea that viewing angles were so important with LCD's.  I have a LCD  (Acer 19") at work that I'll be looking at in the morning.

Unless you buy a monitor that's made to be rotated.
I have a Dell 1905FP (19" LCD) that comes with a really amazing stand.
The stand has a small footprint and rotates to horizontal or vertical and locks into position.

Since it's made the be rotated, the viewing angles in any direction are spot on.

[DaOld Man]

Well, I think Im done buying LCDs for this project.

Im by no means poor, but I think I have just about reached my budget for this project, so it's back to the crt I think.

[Cornchip]

 I looked at the LCD I have at work this morning. Nothing wrong with it horizontal. Rotate it and it's not bad 15 degrees to the right (facing the screen) and washing out immeadiately as you go left. I honestly didn't think this was a problem. Worth checking out if your LCD views decently when rotated.


 Cornchip.

 Note....the LCD that I have is a LG 1918S. I wouldn't recommend it for this use.

[javeryh]

I use a Dell 19" LCD mounted vertically in my mini arcade and it looks great.  I plan to use the same one in my new project that I will be rotating.

[DaOld Man]

I highly suggest to anyone thinking of using an LCD on their vertical or rotating project to test the monitor they are thinking of using before buying it!
That means no ordering off the net, unless you have tried a friend's monitor and you are sure it is the exact same model.
Im sure this warning is somewhere on this board, but I dont remember seeing it.
Maybe we should make a new thread with just this warning and make it a sticky?
I know 100-200 bucks for a new monitor that wont work may be a project killer for most people.

[weisshaupt]

I highly suggest to anyone thinking of using an LCD on their vertical or rotating project to test the monitor they are thinking of using before buying it!
That means no ordering off the net, unless you have tried a friend's monitor and you are sure it is the exact same model.
Im sure this warning is somewhere on this board, but I dont remember seeing it.
Maybe we should make a new thread with just this warning and make it a sticky?
I know 100-200 bucks for a new monitor that wont work may be a project killer for most people.

I feel somewhat bad I didn't think to warn you about the viewing angles. I put a more explicit warning in the WIKI.
Having first hand information is always best, but I suspect that checking the specs before hand will give a pretty good indication of what will/won't work. (I am very tempted to replce my Acer with that Samsung with 170/170 viewing angles.  )  Did you get to check the specs on your wide screen-- did they claim something very off from what you were observing?

[Cornchip]

   Some great screen comparisons between different makes of LCD's. Below is an  'extreme' example of what you might see. The LG I tried wasn't too far off this example.

Cornchip.