High school drop outs

[eds1275]

So my nephews live one province over, and I've noticed more and more that they are on xbox instead of in school (my phone beeps when my "favourites" are online.) Anyways a few months of this and the old "we missed the school bus" excuse is getting old. Finally this morning I confronted them, and they said that yes, they have pretty much dropped out. It started with missing the bus, and then one thing apparently led to another and they were just watching some television when I happened to interrupt. They grew up where I live now, on the West Coast, but their mom wanted to be with her family and moved them into some tiny hick town in Alberta where there's nothing for teenagers to do but drugs and make babies.

I'm pretty ---smurfing--- choked. One of them is pretty upset that I'm angry, the other one has a "well screw you too" kind of attitude. But I think that it's rage to hide guilt. Their mother has to work 2 jobs back to back (post office clerk and then sleazy truck stop waitress in the evenings) and isn't around to really take care of things. My brother (their father) has moved back to england and sort of got what was coming to him when his apartment exploded with him inside... but that doesn't help the home life of my nephews.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich_flat_explosion_survivor_i_remember_a_wall_of_bright_orange_and_then_i_woke_up_a_week_later_in_a_hospital_bed_1_1234029

I have one extra bedroom in my house, and have offered it up to either of them. My parents also have one bedroom in their house should both the boys decide to come out. Truth be told they have both had a rough go of it, but I told them that everyone has hardships, and you either suck it up and deal with it or you make excuses and play a victim. I like to think that people are responsible for their own actions and hold them to their choices.

Anyways I don't know if I want to try to help them or throttle them. Can it be both? Anyone else deal with this kind of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---?

[jdbailey1206]

Eds - This is a very hard situation to be in.  I was going to give you examples in my life about how people have succeeded with and without school.  But that may not pertain to your nephews.  My advice would be (if you want to) to be a part of their lives.  As you have said your brother has left and they barely have their mother because she has to provide for them during the day and part of the night.  So they feel abandoned.  So, you, as a uncle, may just need to be there for them to set them on the right track. 

I can't speak for you but even know at 35 I still talk to my parents and ask them for advice.  Sometimes it just helps knowing that someone is in your corner and that your nephews have something or someone to fight for. 

[eds1275]

I was going to give you examples in my life about how people have succeeded with and without school. 

I know that there are people who do fine without school. But it's not the example I want to endorse. Them living a province over is a pain. I'm guessing when their mom is off work she'll be calling me to either yell at me for offering them a different place to live or to seriously consider it.

[lilshawn]

sometimes it doesn't matter what you tell them, sometimes they just have to learn on their own. even if it means failing in the process. I know you don't want to see them fail, but consider the following...

They'll have aspirations to become rig workers or gas fitters (as everybody in alberta does) and make big money out in the oil patch and all their problems will be over, but then they will quickly realize that you have to have your high school diploma to even so much as a steward or roustabout, (and only if they were dying for those people, which they aren't) not to mention the schooling you need to actually BECOME those other things and ACTUALLY make good money instead of barely over minimum wage.

but, I digress, Your best bet is to step back and keep your ear to the ground. When things are going sideways AND they realize it, step in with a plan of action THEY can take for themselves that will set them in the right direction.

There are GED equivalent programs for people out there. This may be an eventual option for them.

I dropped out of school in grade 9 to work. well, try to anyways. The kinds of employment I was able to get where barely enough to stay afloat. (and this was 15 years ago too) I was unable to return to a regular school due to works hours. and no work meant no money, which meant no roof over your head.

I ended up doing the rest of my schooling at a co-operative education center after work. (conveniently across the street from where I worked.) It made for long days (7am to 9pm), but the teachers there were very supportive and pushed me to get the education (and experience) i needed to get the post secondary education and certifications that eventually got me where I am today.

I went from stupid kid, minimum wage slave... supplemented by welfare...still somehow not making ends meet.

To today...I have a wife, 3 kids, 3 cars and just signed to buy our first house this last weekend. 

It's a rough go when you think you know it all and fail, but with the proper supports, it can work out in the end. 

[dkersten]

I got divorced 4.5 years ago.  My son was 17 at the time.  He had become as good of a liar as his mother, which was quite a feat.  He started smoking pot (as was popular) which led to the desire for something stronger.  This also led to laziness in anything he didn't enjoy doing, school being one of those things.  When he learned he missed enough school to not be able to graduate (he was 18 by then) he dropped out.  It devastated me.  He hadn't been talking to me for quite some time and his mother was the perfect enabler.  I am a very straight laced person who chose to never touch drugs, and while I did some dumb things as a kid, I was a relative saint compared to pretty much everyone else while growing up.  To choose to drop out of school not because of hardship or lack of opportunity, but rather because it was harshing his buzz, was, in my eyes, inconceivable.

He spent the next year partying and trying new and more powerful drugs.  Each evening was a challenge to outdo the evening before.  Get more high, get more wasted, party harder, get in crazier fights, and do stupider things.  It culminated with him and 2 others breaking into a head shop and doing 12k in damage.  They got caught on tape.  Facing several felonies, the owner showed leniency and offered a deal: pay the damages and no charges.  The other parents pressured me into joining as it was an all or none deal.  My son, facing prison for at least a year, seemed to be "playing ball".  He accepted my conditions: move to Idaho to live with my brother (get away from influences here), join the military, get his GED, and pay back the money.  He got enrolled and had 4 months to kill before basic training. 

First he got his GED, which despite not attending his senior year, he passed in one test with 95% and graduated with honors.  The test, by the way, is designed so that 33% of high school graduates would fail.  You have to know everything from grades 9-12 on the last tests, and it isn't that easy even though a GED is considered inferior to a high school diploma.  This, of course, is in the U.S., but I can't imagine it is much different in CA.

He went to live with my brother, who has no kids and wasn't the best influence, but kept him out of trouble for the most part.  He came back a couple weeks before deployment and ended up hurting his foot (old break that didn't heal) and had to have surgery with 12 weeks recovery, just before shipping out to Basic Training.  The military changes his MOS from what he wanted to do (diesel tech) to something he hated the idea of (filing clerk), but he could still go.   However, now back home, he moved in with his mom and soon was back into drugs.  Then he got 2 Minor in Possession charges for alcohol (he was 20 by this time) and a pot possession charge.  I stepped in again and got the charge deferred, which meant he could still go into the ARMY, as long as he finished his community service and counseling.  He moved back in with me but lied about everything and in the end it all went to hell and I kicked him out.

He spiraled down the drain as drug use turned to dealing pot, and then meth.  He wound up in jail on a distribution charge, and after a week I sent him a letter talking about our relationship and why I kicked him out of my house, etc.  After 10 days in jail, facing another 6 months to a year before the trial (no money for bail), he reached out to me and I helped him again.  He was put on a patch to monitor drugs and stayed clean for a year waiting trial.  He got a job and I kept him on the straight path, although it wasn't easy and he almost slipped a few times.  He is now on probation, been clean for about 15 months, and his hard work earned him a management position at the place he works.  In fact, his hard work made enough of an impression on his bosses that they wrote letters to the court and in turn his sentence was reduced to just possession, no distribution.  He is making damn good money and pays me rent, is paying me back for the bail and fines (totaling around $10,000 so far and he has paid off $8k of it already), is paying off all the stuff he neglected while on drugs (about $6k), and has a financial plan in place for the next year.  He still has a few legal issues to finish serving before he is clear of it all, and after the probation which is another 15 months, he will have no felonies on his record.  He has health insurance now and has been seeing a dentist to repair some of the damage from drug use.  He is back to working out and trying to get his body back in fighting shape (he enjoys MMA fighting) but he also understands that fighting is a bad idea because it can mean injury, which could hurt his ability to do his job.  He worked hard to get where he is (in an incredibly short time) and knows what it would cost him to lose it.  Most of all, he is AWARE of what his past choices have done to his life, and sees how he can avoid that in the future.

The point of this story is to say that A) I have been there, and I feel your pain.  Hang in there, it will probably get way worse before it gets better, but it DOES get better.  B) The thing you have to learn is every person is an individual who will make their own choices.  You can't control that no matter how hard you try.  However, you can influence them if you try hard enough.  Just don't take their failures as your own.  And C) You have to just care about the people you care about and let them know, the rest is up to them.  The best you can do is try to stay a part of their lives without enabling them and just show them a good example.  If they are smart, they will see where their lives are headed and where they could be headed and maybe they will make changes in their own lives as a result.

Most of all, while dropping out of high school does hurt their potential for living a better life and close off a lot of opportunities, it isn't a death sentence.  They can recover from it, although that window closes a little more each year. 

[pbj]

Can personally confirm it doesn't always get better.

[Le Chuck]

I moved my brother's teen daughter in with us for a year trying to help her sort it out.  Similar situation from the sound of it.  My older sister has done the same with other teens.  Inviting a teen that isn't yours into your home is an adventure and it can stress the rest of your relationships.  I'm glad Addi came and lived with us, and while I don't think it did any good, for all I know she could have ended up much worse and I at least kept her on a path towards meh. 

---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- man, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.  Doesn't mean you shouldn't lead them tho.  Lead them, if they're not thirsty perhaps they'll remember the way to the well when they are. 

[dkersten]

Can personally confirm it doesn't always get better.

For the people making the bad decisions like dropping out of school?  No, sometimes nothing helps, including hitting bottom, and sometimes they dig themselves so deep of a hole that they can't get out, even if they decide for themselves it is time to change.  But for the people who care about those making poor decisions, it will get better.  It hurts at first, and it can get worse, but eventually, as with any loss, it will get better.  Acceptance of your inability to make good decisions for people you care about is difficult, and the pain they can cause you is as real as any.

[Mr_Numbers]

How old are these boys that dropped out and just play video games all day?  If they are 16+ they just need to go get a job and a GED, it's a multiple choice exam so just about anyone/everyone will pass it given enough time (I've yet to hear a story of someone needing more than 3 tries except for the most degenerate of crack/meth heads).  I especially think they need to be working if there mother is working two jobs to support them, else it sounds like they don't care about anyone but themselves.  I say if they can't take these basic steps and are unwilling to move for assistance they don't deserve your help (I.E. they'll not respect your help or appreciate it in any way).

[Howard_Casto]

Anyways I don't know if I want to try to help them or throttle them. Can it be both?

Yes, yes it can. 

There's an expression in the south.  God gave you two hands for your family, so you have one hand to hold them, and another to knock some sense into them.

[ark_ader]

Call the truant officer. I do not say this lightly, but they should be in school, and if they don't go then to juvenile hall or whatever the local alternative.

Don't invite them into your home, unless you know what you are getting into.

Its OK to get mad about it, but in reality kids today do not have a cat in hell's chance to make it in this world, and most likely we will be in a third world war, or scavenging for food after the next huge bubble.  If it was me I would call the cops.

[Mr_Numbers]

I would have to disagree with calling law enforcement as that usually is a distancing tool and I fail to see how it helps other than making the boys bitter at you.  Also, this would be counter intuitive if they've already FDA (failed due to absences) which sounds like a real possibility, why would they even care if it's literally impossible to pass? 

[Howard_Casto]

There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences.  If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.

[Generic Eric]

I dunno man.

It sounds like you've already went the extra mile.  I believe you care because you went to the extent to post here.  I think the only other thing you would be to charge them rent as opposed to a free stay.  The free stay offers them an opportunity to take advantage you.  While it feels good initially, it may invite their trouble to your door.

Tough spot to be in.

I couple of my nephews are knuckle heads, but not to that degree.  They were also dealt a ---smurfy--- hand.

[yotsuya]

There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences.  If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.

Quoted for Troof. Dropouts = lost dollars. Maybe their HS system offers alternative programs like online coursework or alternative schools?

[eds1275]

I dunno man.

It sounds like you've already went the extra mile.

I went the extra mile a few years ago when I was dirt-eating broke (moved to an island, all the jobs are taken!) and still made an arcade machine with them.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113905.msg1209501

I don't think they can be forced back into it. Perhaps guilted, for a while, but I think the key is making them want to be there. I hated school with a fiery vengeance. My first job was teaching kung fu to the lower classes and every big kid thought that was a challenge, so I was always being pushed into fighting and getting in trouble for it. However I knew that it was a big stepping stone that would pass and so I powered through it. The GED courses and stuff are fine for the educational value (I think most of the crap taught in schools is useless knowledge and the whole system needs an overhaul.) In my opinion the most important part of school is learning that people are ---uvulas--- and you have to deal with it to an extent.

If one of them does end up with me it's not a free ride. I will make them pay.

Quoted for Troof. Dropouts = lost dollars. Maybe their HS system offers alternative programs like online coursework or alternative schools?

I'm pretty sure their school in a converted barn, and the teacher a toothless, straw chewing old man wearing nothing but a straw hat and overalls holding a bible in one hand and a textbook in the other. It's not a religious school, but they say there's an awful lot of religious stuff happening there... and they are in the middle of nowhere

[dkersten]

There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences.  If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.

Ours has a policy: over 10 absences in a semester and regardless of your grades, you fail automatically.  The reason is they don't get the funding if they aren't actually there, although the "official" reason is because they don't think the kid is learning enough if he isn't there, and it is unfair to students later who have to be in a class where the teacher is spending extra time with that kid to get them caught up. 

There is a one time chance where if you miss that many you can sign a contract with the dean where you get credit for the semester if the next semester you miss less than 6 days.

Personally, I think it is a really bad policy, after all it was the nudge that pushed my son to drop out.  If they hadn't removed those credits, he would have graduated with a B average, on time, despite all the missed classes.  He would have had to retake his entire senior year as well as do summer school, despite only failing 1 class academically.

[eds1275]

I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.

[BorgDog]

When my youngest daughter was a senior in high school, she would skip a lot and they threatened the fail for "unexcused absences", but she was the same would show up on test days and easily pass all the tests.  At the time they had a phone system that would call us and leave a message if she had any absences, of course she was home before us and would delete them off the answering machine, but we could also call into the system and check up on her which we ended up doing  everyday, and used the automated system to "excuse" her absences so she ended up passing what she needed to and graduating.  Not sure that would work now, but we figured that as long as she could pass the tests why not, and she was 18 before her senior year so there wasn't a lot we could do to force her to be there. 

[dkersten]

I don't think they can be forced back into it. Perhaps guilted, for a while, but I think the key is making them want to be there.

Sometimes you have to exert your authority and even call the sheriff or truancy officer to put some fear into them.

And I am not sure you can make any kid want to be in school.  It is rare for a kid to actually like it.  If you can't maintain authority over them, the trick (imho) would be to show them the consequences of not graduating.  Of course, kids don't really believe in consequences, they are immortal and these days have a massive sense of entitlement, so in their minds nothing bad can happen to them and they will end up making all the money in the world with or without an education because people owe them that much...

In my case, I believe my son's turning point was when he realized just how much his actions had screwed up his life.  The final nail was driven home when he was sitting in jail on a traffic violation and the drug dealers he used to work with were being transported to the federal prison by a DEA agent that was also one of the people in his group (undercover).  If he hadn't been picked up on a random search a few months before, he would have been with those guys waiting for transport to federal prison for 10 years. 

Until a kid's eyes are opened up by something that shakes their life up, they aren't going to change their path, so you just have to exert authority where you can and do your best to keep them on the right path.  When they are supporting themselves and their own decisions each have consequences they feel, they will look back and realize you kept them on that path for a reason, but until then, they just think you're an ---uvula---.

[Mr_Numbers]

In Florida when I was in school it was (and still is) the opposite, homework was 50-70% of the grade.  This state goes on a scale grading the schools which dictates how much funding they get so it is very important for the school to be an "A grade" school. 

I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.

[pbj]

I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.

That "class participation" crap goes on in grad school, too, I'm sorry to say.

[eds1275]

Such ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. But those are the rules, and although I didn't play by them I sure expect my nephews to do it. At their age I had skills - I could use tools, weld, drive, some programming, some drafting, I read for pleasure, could play several musical instruments. They... can play video games. They can barely spell (I have high standards for spelling, and I think it's becoming less and less important in school.)

[yotsuya]

Edit: since this comment brought nothing to the table, I'm removing it. Good luck, OP.

[pbj]

No, no, share your nuanced opinions about various races, ethnicities, cultural norms, and their respective influences on the high school experience.

[Mr_Numbers]

We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field?  Otherwise why even bring that up?   

As someone who has been working in high schools for the past 19 years, been involved with education since he was 20, and who over the years through observation and experience has definite opinions on this stuff......



....... I'm keeping my mouth shut. 

[yotsuya]

We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field?  Otherwise why even bring that up?   

Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.

[jdbailey1206]

I think what Yots meant to say was he has been watching school yards from the field for the past 19 years.   

[eds1275]

We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field?  Otherwise why even bring that up?   

Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.

SCHOOL IS THE BEST EVERYONE GO TO SCHOOL, GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY USEFUL IF YOU WANT TO END UP TEACHING IT IN SCHOOL

[Mr_Numbers]

Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked 

We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field?  Otherwise why even bring that up?   

Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.

[Vigo]

Eh, go with the Bill and Ted method. Send them to military academy in Alaska.

[yotsuya]

Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked 

That's all the proof you need, homes.

[yotsuya]

SCHOOL IS THE BEST EVERYONE GO TO SCHOOL, GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY USEFUL IF YOU WANT TO END UP TEACHING IT IN SCHOOL

I disagree. College isn't for everyone.

[eds1275]

Waltzing in and announcing you aren't going to say anything is one way to pull this off topic. If you've got nothing to say, then stop talking please.

[yotsuya]

Waltzing in and announcing you aren't going to say anything is one way to pull this off topic. If you've got nothing to say, then stop talking please.

Agreed. But let me say I do commend you for getting involved. I've been biting my tongue because of some other comments made by others, but I think you're doing the right thing and I wish you luck.

[eds1275]

 

[Vigo]

You hear back either way from their mother on your offer?

[Mr_Numbers]

Fair enough, you're reasoning is your own so sorry to start a derail.

Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked 

That's all the proof you need, homes.

[yotsuya]

Fair enough, you're reasoning is your own so sorry to start a derail.

Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked 

That's all the proof you need, homes.

[eds1275]

You hear back either way from their mother on your offer?

Not yet. Their mother is special... She might be angry at me. I think she might wait out the school year, send them out for the summer, and not ask for them back. She may just be thinking about it... Who knows.