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Author Topic: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...  (Read 15170 times)

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Gatsu

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So. I created some control panel artwork last year for MK3FAN here in the forum for his MK10 arcade machine project.

I was just on ebay and found someone selling the design. Now obviously Scorpion isn't mine. Its an official mkx render, but the panel design is mine, and I didn't create it with the intent to sell. I don't mind someone using it for their own personal use. But selling it isn't something I can condone.

Anything I can do about it? Or am I SOL?

MK Custom Control Panel
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 07:10:02 am by Gatsu »

Le Chuck

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Re: need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 05:53:24 am »
What did the seller say when you asked him to pull the sale?

Gatsu

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Re: need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 05:55:00 am »
I just sent them a message. I just wanted to get some input in case they said "F*** you".

Dawgz Rule

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Re: need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 06:39:17 am »
Looks like the seller ended the sale and pulled the item.

Gatsu

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Re: need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 06:56:42 am »
Yep. He did thankfully. Guy made a "you don't own mk blah blah blah" type comment. Which is fine. No I don't own MK. I didn't design that panel to be sold freely by anyone who felt like they wanted to. I made it for personal use only.

I hadn't put anything online in a high enough resolution to make a decent print....so I know he was potentially selling crap quality of that print anyways.

Lesson learned...watermark the hell out of everything. lol.

Seemed like a nice guy overall though from our short conversation via ebay messages. Thankfully.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 07:00:08 am by Gatsu »

jdbailey1206

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 08:51:41 am »
Doing what we do we are in a grey area.  Most of the time no one here is out to make a huge financial gain.  We all use 'copyrighted' material on our cabs but no one is selling anything in mass quantities.  It sounds like that guy tried to see what he could sell without repercussions but it ended up that he was found with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar.

8BitMonk

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 09:56:44 am »
Marking your work with a Creative Commons license could afford some protection and potentially ward off a casual thief.

http://creativecommons.org/
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 10:48:22 am »
This one isn't a gray area. One term to be familiar with is "Transformative Appropriation". It is the reasoning in law that states you can make your own art pulling from existing material and own it. It is why Andy Warhol was able to make a painting of Campbells soup cans and not run into copyright infringement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_%28art%29

Bottom Line, you have to have made a number of changes to the art for it to be transformative. If the design was merely pictures of Mario and Pac Man pasted down, then it wouldn't be yours. You obviously did a lot of unique changes from the render to make your art and in doing so it became solely your property. You don't need to own the rights to MK. That is YOUR art. Glad you were able to stop him with just a message.  :cheers:

pbj

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2015, 10:50:12 am »
"Your" control panel was an illegal use of artwork you didn't own.  Most rational people in your situation take the compliment and STFU. 

Feel free to play wikipedia lawyer, though.

 :cheers:

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 11:30:52 am »
"Your" control panel was an illegal use of artwork you didn't own.  Most rational people in your situation take the compliment and STFU. 

Feel free to play wikipedia lawyer, though.

 :cheers:

Now whose playing lawyer by tossing about words like "illegal" and "own"?

You seem feisty today Jimbo, whatzit? 

8BitMonk

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 02:48:03 pm »
"Your" control panel was an illegal use of artwork you didn't own.   

...that he did as a personal project with no intent to profit from.

Most rational people in your situation take the compliment and STFU.

Jim's hardly the person I'd use as a barometer for the actions of 'rational people'.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 05:10:23 pm by 8BitMonk »
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 04:08:50 pm »
"Your" control panel was an illegal use of artwork you didn't own.   

...that he did as a person project with no intent to profit from.

Most rational people in your situation take the compliment and STFU.

Jim's hardly the person I'd use as a barometer for the actions of 'rational people'.

Jim is human?

8BitMonk

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 05:14:10 pm »
Jim is human?

Yes, in the same way that taking something someone else created for personal use and trying to sell it on ebay is a compliment.  :laugh2:
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pbj

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 05:15:41 pm »
Meh, it's happened to me.  I slapped together some "reproduction" cabinet stickers and stuck them on a Geocities website.  Treasure Cove was selling them as "shop out decals" a week later, probably still does.  I did a "backboard decal" for The Shadow and put it on the Pinball Rebel website.  Couple years later, every Shadow on Ebay had one stuck in it.  Similar has happened with several of "my" score cards, particularly for EMs.

There's two responses to this... one is you get butthurt and try to claim your collage of derivative artwork is somehow unique and demand, what, "acknowledgement"?  "Compensation"?  Give me a break.

The other response is you go, hey, that's kinda neat other people liked it.  Maybe my attitude of putting that stuff out there freely will encourage others to do the same. 

Plus you get to poke people that dislike you when you point out - "oh look, it's my old image..."

 


Gatsu

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 06:27:06 pm »
I wasn't seeking any kind of monetary compensation. Just that he removed the item in question because it was not created with the intent to resell or profit off of in any way. It was for a friend. No money/favors were exchanged for the artwork.

Sure its nice that someone acknowledges it as cool enough to try and sell it....I've had custom posters I've designed and had printed for friends literally stolen off of their walls before. Sure its cool someone liked it. But it wasn't theirs to take. And it's crappy of them to do.

And I didn't post it for public distribution it was originally intended for 1 friend. If anyone in the community wanted a copy to use for their personal project, sure. No problem if they asked. But the second it's put up and sold....that's where the line is drawn. If I wanted to make money off of it...I'm perfectly capable of selling it myself. But I know better because it's not 100% mine. Whether Andy Worhol was able to do it or not...I wouldn't want to fight Netherrealm or WB Games in court over it.

And any images that were found online of the cp artmwere not high enough resolution to make a nice print off of. So not only were they using what wasn't theirs, they were selling potentially ---smurfy--- quality.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 06:45:56 pm »
Anything that I post/share digitally I consider it to be "out there in the open", the art I consider valuable are those that I don't post. 

I've always considered watermarking my works the ol' Mikonos way, but in the end I couldn't care less.
I mean, I never post anything near in a printable resolution anyway, but if someone wants to take my arts and put in the time to up-res, trace and bootleg 'em, then good fricken luck. That's a lot of work in itself.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2015, 12:45:04 am »
      So basically you want to decide the fate of somebody else's work, And want acknowledgement for your greatness and moral ethics?.... Allow me, :notworthy:

Gatsu

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 05:29:54 am »
 ::)

Obviously you've misunderstood my point. No I don't want acknowledgement or any of that. I had a problem. I came here to ask for input because I know others on this forum have had this same problem. The problem worked itself out. I shared some information. Then my intentions were questioned, so I explained them as best as I could.

I'm sorry you interpreted all of that as me being some kind of egotistical attention seeking ---meecrob---.

But the situation has resolved itself. I thought I explained my side of it and just wanted share. That was all.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 05:54:11 am by Gatsu »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2015, 10:28:36 am »
I know I missed the boat on interjecting my opinion here.

Is there a creative way to resolve this?  How about doing some hidden art that is only visible at printing resolution?  Like seeing detail on the dollar bill?  Or perhaps in lieu of watermarking, a QR code that was integrated to the design.  It could link to a site saying "If you see this message you purchased a low rez version of the art.  Click here for a link to purchase a high rez version from my approved printers list."  While its cool you posted that, maybe part of the solution is to team up with friendly printers who can print your art as you envisioned.  I absolutely think that if the social media explosion on the internet happened before arcades were popular, at least the marquee would have a QR code by the copyright.

The solution is creativity.  Like programmers that program alternate experiences for games that get cracked/hacked/leaked.  Or maybe only posting the image in a mirrored version. 

*shrug*

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2015, 03:35:54 pm »
Gatsu I agree with you on this. Something you created should not be stolen and then sold for profit. Fairly simple concept that gets quite complicated when you dig deeper into the issue of intellectual property.

Doing what we do we are in a grey area.  Most of the time no one here is out to make a huge financial gain.  We all use 'copyrighted' material on our cabs but no one is selling anything in mass quantities.  It sounds like that guy tried to see what he could sell without repercussions but it ended up that he was found with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar.

You nailed it jdbailey1206. These images are copyrighted and making changes to the original doesn't change that. The "likeness" is also copyrighted. It also doesn't fall into the term 'art' but more what is called kitsch, however, both terms are vaguely defined. I personally consider anything that I visually like to be art, but art generally needs to have a higher meaning behind it. Side art or control panels are there to just look good (kitsch).  Andy Warhol was brought up and the reason why Campbell's Soup Cans is not copyright infringement was his use of the image. He was not displaying "something pretty" but actually making a statement upon our mass produced culture (Art). If this was created by me, hung up behind my desk because I thought it was pretty it would now be put it in the realm of kitsch. Same "art" different meaning. If I now try to sell it I am selling upon and image created by Campbell. They own it.

It all comes down to is a lot of these images most companies don't care if they are used in small quantities; not much worry in this hobby. That doesn't mean we should use whatever images we find and try to sell them on ebay because the risk is low. Low risk doesn't mean it is right.

Anyways, bored at work so I thought I'd toss my two cents at the wall.

pbj

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 04:58:26 pm »
Your first post failed when you tried to talk about "right" with a den of IP thieves.

Lurk moar.


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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 05:01:28 pm »

Anyways, bored at work so I thought I'd toss my two cents at the wall.

Welcome to the wall.  :)


Let me just add a little legal guff, because I fell I need to say in a legal sense, the "non-kitschyness" of warhol's work really didn't determine if it was infringing or not.  ;D (I should start using the word "kitsch" more. It is a good word.)



Legally, these are two different art pieces from two different artists:



You can read about Cariou vs. Prince case if you are as geeky about IP law as I tend to get.

Is called transformative vs derivative work. Simply put, you don't change enough and it is derivative work and is not entirely yours. You change enough and it is yours 100%, in an art ownership sense. The case above is one of those borderline cases, and normally transformative work has a bit more changed to it.

I feel comfortable saying that Gatsu's work is transformative. Gatsu legally owns that art and has every right to ask that guy to remove it.

There is a completely different issue on the IP on Scorpion himself, but it means nothing when selling the art by itself. Gatsu can sell the art, but he can't use any picture of Scorpion, even if drawn 100% himself, in order to profit selling on a video game, arcade machine, etc. That isn't the case in this incident, though.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 05:11:57 pm »
I don't think anyone should be too attached to artwork that isn't 100% theirs.  I mean, the CP design's meat-and-potatoes were art pieces not really belonging to you in the first place. In fact, what exactly is completely your artwork, built from scratch?  Judging by the image, the most you can probably claim is the blood splattering, and extruded control borders w/ bolts?  I'd bet even the metal grating texture was lifted from a image search.

And while you arranged it and added your own shading touches, it still isn't completely yours to claim release rights to. IMHO, you're lucky the guy pulled it from ebay actually, 'cause he definitely didn't have to. At least, not by your order.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 05:35:13 pm »
I don't think anyone should be too attached to artwork that isn't 100% theirs.  I mean, the CP design's meat-and-potatoes were art pieces not really belonging to you in the first place. In fact, what exactly is completely your artwork, built from scratch?  Judging by the image, the most you can probably claim is the blood splattering, and extruded control borders w/ bolts?  I'd bet even the metal grating texture was lifted from a image search.

As an artist, I'm sure you know how there is somehow a huge population with a blind eye turned on originality and effort. I commented on the legal issue above, and stand by my assessment, but I do agree, of stuff to get ripped off, this isn't the most original piece to be worked up about.

At the same time, I have designs I pooped out in 20 minutes, and probably looks like a million others of its kind, but I would still feel a bit slighted if somebody was selling it identically. Other things I have worked on for days straight and would be happy to share freely. Maybe I'm just weird like that, but I don't think any less of Gatsu for being upset about this.


And while you arranged it and added your own shading touches, it still isn't completely yours to claim release rights to. IMHO, you're lucky the guy pulled it from ebay actually, 'cause he definitely didn't have to. At least, not by your order.

I'm personally am more annoyed with these kind of sellers. Anyone selling artwork shouldn't be pulling this crap. If it is a simple Photoshop job, why can't they just recreate it themselves? I'm avoiding trying to sound like PBJ, but too many "art printers" are making a business off of exclusively selling ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- they don't own.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 06:40:50 pm »
Your first post failed when you tried to talk about "right" with a den of IP thieves.

I assume you're including yourself in this den of thieves since you're using a likeness of Sonic the Hedgehog for your avatar. Your illegal usage is no different than Gatsu's or anyone elses.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2015, 09:07:07 pm »
Konkey Dong = Transformative

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 11:15:39 am »
You can act within the confines of the law and still look pretty foolish. I'm with PBJ, the OP should have contacted the ebay seller without letting the general public know.

I created this artwork years ago for a member here, http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,65675


If I saw it for sale, or on machines, so what. I didn't create it to sell. Personally, I would have just moved along. Ain't got no time for that.


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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2015, 12:00:21 pm »

Not my fight, but anyone who is interested in the legal protections with regard to use of videogame characters, should probably give this a read.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 01:48:37 pm »
He took a poster that somebody else made, cropped it, slapped on some logos that aren't his, and wrote the word START using a font he didn't design.


 ::)

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 02:53:29 pm »
He took a poster that somebody else made, cropped it, slapped on some logos that aren't his, and wrote the word START using a font he didn't design.

Spoken like someone with no true design experience. If it was so easy then why didn't the ebay seller just re-create it, then he'd have a hi-res version? Better yet, since it's only a 5 minute job why don't you re-create it and post it here for us to see.  ::)

 :soapbox:

The OP took the time to create a unique CP design for personal use which someone then took as-is and tried to sell, that's stealing, period. Equating the OP's use of any copyrighted material in his design, with no intention to sell it, to the ebay sellers actions is a false equivalence with zero merit.

Many large game companies actually condone and in fact encourage fan use of copyrighted materials as a way to promote the brand. Again, he never intended to profit from it, the ebay seller did.

The assertion that anyone would be flattered by someone stealing their time and talent for their own financial gain or 'hey it's happened to me before so it's no big deal' is ridiculous. The assertion that the design was 'simple' and has no value is ignorant of the value of good design. The ebay seller just snagged the artwork and tried to make a quick buck off both the talents of the OP AND the protected IP.

Bottom line, the ebay seller is wrong both morally and legally and the OP's frustrations are completely warranted.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:15:30 pm by 8BitMonk »
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2015, 03:15:19 pm »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP. 

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2015, 03:18:51 pm »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.

Why? Did the eBay guy make it?
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2015, 03:20:13 pm »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.
You've only been registered since 2010, you can't possibly know that.

Also, you are wrong.  I can't scan someone elses art and sell it as my own.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2015, 03:22:47 pm »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.

You're right, they both have the same right to it which is...wait for it... neither of them can legally sell it. Thanks for proving my point Jennifer.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2015, 03:35:29 pm »
   No he didn't make it, Just took it and manipulated it for his use, just like the OP did, I"d even go so far to say Epay guy was doing a favor to the community (minus the high res quality) by not only trying to make it available for everyone, but putting his neck on the line @ the presses.... G/Eric:, In some cases yes you could, (freeware, abondonware) That's not core of this problem however, Its the lifelong entitlement mentality.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2015, 03:40:52 pm »
I"d even go so far to say Epay guy was doing a favor to the community (minus the high res quality) by not only trying to make it available for everyone, but putting his neck on the line @ the presses....

Can't let this go.

No one that has collected art to sell as prints has done a favor greater than they could have made by hosting the file.  There are several collections of art that were sold to online printers that I find questionable.  Any arcade art behind a paywall makes me wonder of its origins. 

If we are going to talk about favors, charging above cost of materials and actual shipping is not a favor.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2015, 03:43:26 pm »
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:45:37 pm by pbj »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2015, 03:56:19 pm »
    Those art collections you speak of (for the most part) Suck and are unworthy of reprints, Due mostly to limited P/s skills, and some high horse OP thinking if I just change this a bit then its mine ,....  A hosted file of a turd pile does not warrant favors. 

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2015, 04:30:17 pm »
    A hosted file of a turd pile does not warrant favors.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:11:30 pm by 8BitMonk »
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 04:30:21 pm »
Spoken like someone with no true design experience. If it was so easy then why didn't the ebay seller just re-create it, then he'd have a hi-res version? Better yet, since it's only a 5 minute job why don't you re-create it and post it here for us to see.  ::)
hmmm, 5 mins?  Naw, more like 10 mins for anyone with basic knowledge of Photoshop. Most of the work is in googling the images. Arrangement, cutting and pasting, adding drop-shadows and overlay textures doesn't take a long time to do at all.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2015, 04:54:28 pm »
hmmm, 5 mins?  Naw, more like 10 mins for anyone with basic knowledge of Photoshop. Most of the work is in googling the images. Arrangement, cutting and pasting, adding drop-shadows and overlay textures doesn't take a long time to do at all.

I could re-create it quickly as well, that isn't the point. The issue is whether or not it's ethical or legal to directly take something someone else created and then sell it. Saying it's the OP's fault for putting it out there doesn't make it right.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2015, 05:03:40 pm »
Gatsu makes a mild complaint and asks if he should bother doing anything, then by post #4 says, "No biggie, I worked it out with the seller directly, he was a nice guy", everybody thinks he is making a big stink and overstepping his bounds??

Sorry guys, I don't follow this witch hunt.  :dunno

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2015, 05:18:02 pm »
Gatsu makes a mild complaint and asks if he should bother doing anything, then by post #4 says, "No biggie, I worked it out with the seller directly, he was a nice guy", everybody thinks he is making a big stink and overstepping his bounds??

Sorry guys, I don't follow this witch hunt.  :dunno


 
 :dunno

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2015, 05:18:48 pm »
But but but it's the innernetz and I have to grind my point of view into to you until you submit!

Heh, see above. Ditto.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2015, 05:49:48 pm »
Spoken like someone with no true design experience. If it was so easy then why didn't the ebay seller just re-create it, then he'd have a hi-res version? Better yet, since it's only a 5 minute job why don't you re-create it and post it here for us to see.  ::)
I could re-create it quickly as well, that isn't the point. The issue is whether or not it's ethical or legal to directly take something someone else created and then sell it. Saying it's the OP's fault for putting it out there doesn't make it right.
Quote
The OP took the time to create a unique CP design for personal use which someone then took as-is and tried to sell, that's stealing, period. Equating the OP's use of any copyrighted material in his design, with no intention to sell it, to the ebay sellers actions is a false equivalence with zero merit.

Many large game companies actually condone and in fact encourage fan use of copyrighted materials as a way to promote the brand. Again, he never intended to profit from it, the ebay seller did.

 ::) Either you missed the point, or your blindly looking over the fact that Gatsu stole the art first.

So it's okay to steal art, only if it's for personal use?  How is that morally/ethically right?

How about I come to your place, steal your arcade cabinets, then when the cops show up I can say "it's cool, it was only for personal use!"  ::)

Stealing is stealing is stealing. Whether you make a profit off of it or not. Again this is another instance where artwork is undervalued and subject to lower standards to that of any other personal possession.

The point is whether or not Gatsu should be bitching about someone selling the art he stole in the first place. I don't give a flying-f if he took the 10 mins out of day to arrange this in his illegally obtained copy of PS.  What matters is that he really didn't have a leg to stand on, and the ebay guy selling his stolen art could have told him to --kick rocks--.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2015, 06:22:29 pm »
Resisting... urge... to grind point of view. Phew, I think it passed.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2015, 06:31:45 pm »
Resisting... urge... to grind point of view. Phew, I think it passed.
   Silly boy You think that.... So now I suppose you think you own the rights to a clip art Poop/Disney montage Huh?

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2015, 06:35:24 pm »
The point is whether or not Gatsu should be bitching about someone selling the art he stole in the first place. I don't give a flying-f if he took the 10 mins out of day to arrange this in his illegally obtained copy of PS.  What matters is that he really didn't have a leg to stand on, and the ebay guy selling his stolen art could have told him to --kick rocks--.

I agree and disagree.   If he made it for his friend, and shared it for others to get printed for free.......I think selling it is against the spirit of what he was trying to do. I made a bunch of recreations for free for the community; lets say for example an eBay guy is selling my Revolution X marquee recreation for a big profit. Even though I didn't create the original I'd still be kinda pissed that I put something up for the community to use and a guy is profiting off my work. Leaving all legal and moral issues aside, I'd still be disappointed. Get disappointed enough, you stop helping out so much, then who loses?

To note, my RevX marquee isnt perfect, I intentionally altered the colors and made the R slightly different so that it would be distinguishable from the legit marquee.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2015, 06:38:00 pm »
So it's okay to steal art, only if it's for personal use?  How is that morally/ethically right?

So by that logic anyone prints any images from the internet is immoral? [Takes down printed photo of James Bond hanging on wall] Time to burn my printer! Damn you Epson and your Satan machine!!! Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black: The colors of EVIL!

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2015, 06:52:49 pm »
So by that logic anyone prints any images from the internet is immoral? [Takes down printed photo of James Bond hanging on wall] Time to burn my printer! Damn you Epson and your Satan machine!!! Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black: The colors of EVIL!
Resist the temptation you dirty bootlegger!  ;D

Leaving all legal and moral issues aside, I'd still be disappointed. Get disappointed enough, you stop helping out so much, then who loses?
That really is a good point. It does hurt the community in the long run, but the sad thing is, there is not much anyone can do about it other than being mindful of what you post.  Watermarking is cool, low-res images, or WIP images as well...

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2015, 07:21:37 pm »
So now I steal photoshop as well apparently. Thanks guys.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2015, 07:32:49 pm »
So now I steal photoshop as well apparently. Thanks guys.

Dont sweat it buckaroo, I used to steal it too ;)
Now, my employer pays for the license.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2015, 07:40:05 pm »
I pirated a copy a long time ago when I start learning to use it. But when I was close to finishing college I snagged a full copy with my student discount.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2015, 07:56:22 pm »
I pirated a copy a long time ago when I start learning to use it. But when I was close to finishing college I snagged a full copy with my student discount.

Violating the license agreement = stealing

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2015, 08:09:30 pm »
gee. you think? thank you captain obvious.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2015, 08:40:44 pm »
lol, sorry Gatsu, I meant to be speaking in general terms. Don't get me wrong, I have no ill feelings toward you, I'm definitely a fan of your projects and your contribution to the arcade community. It's just these ethical questions about art that always gets me heated. ;)

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2015, 09:02:17 pm »
Hmm, but we can't violate a license that we didn't agree to. A license is just a contract. Breaking your license is pretty meaningless if you are the only person named in that contract. If I took your image, it would not be a license violation. It would only be a copyright violation, provided that you actually own the material in question. You would then have to prove that you own the copyright if you decide to push it through litigation. You would also have to register and file a copyright so that it is made public (if you had decided to sue).

The OP has every right to claim that it is illegal and try to get the image removed. It is all he-said/she-said until it goes to court, because only the courts can actually decide what is legal or not. If the OP thinks that his work is not a derivative, then he has every right to claim ownership. Even more so if he had licensed the art (and has a contract that allows him to claim his ownership).

lulz

The OPs work is almost certainly derivative because it was used specifically to show off that particular artwork. However, it comes down to which images were used and if the owners allow him to copy the images for personal use. This is probably the case because it is common for game companies to release renders specifically for this. This is especially true if the image was released as a wallpaper or desktop background.

Just the ebayer was a ---meecrob---, he has my vote.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2015, 10:01:46 pm »
lol, sorry Gatsu, I meant to be speaking in general terms. Don't get me wrong, I have no ill feelings toward you, I'm definitely a fan of your projects and your contribution to the arcade community. It's just these ethical questions about art that always gets me heated. ;)

I understand man. It's no problem. And I appreciate it. I get where some of the comments people are posting are coming from, though some seem to just be inflammatory just for the sake of being so. Ultimately...I know what my intent was with the post. And it certainly wasn't what most of the commenters seem to have made it out to be.

It just sucks how it's gotten so blown out of proportion.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2015, 10:20:21 pm »
     Whatever, Im not inflamed, In fact could care less about your big "Problem".... The real tragedy here is you will Still go through life with the mentality that its yours.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2015, 11:21:37 pm »
Oh god help me, I have absolutely no vested interest in this at all, but I can't help clicking on the thread every time there is an update AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! 
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2015, 11:32:28 pm »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.

You're right, they both have the same right to it which is...wait for it... neither of them can legally sell it. Thanks for proving my point Jennifer.

Technically, the OP shouldn't being using copyrighted character art/fonts/logos/etc, personal use or no.  Just because a company doesn't explicitly sue him for it, doesn't mean it's legal.

Personal use is not a license to break copyright.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 11:34:45 pm by shponglefan »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #61 on: April 02, 2015, 11:38:37 pm »
     Whatever, Im not inflamed, In fact could care less about your big "Problem".... The real tragedy here is you will Still go through life with the mentality that its yours.

I'm sorry that's what you decided to take from the post. It honestly wasn't what I meant at all.

Let me try to explain it again.

I was NOT mad that the guy was selling a print of something I put together. (time it took, skill level involved, materials used are irrelevant) You assumed that because I said the design was mine, that I actually believed that all of its contents were 100% mine and no one could do anything with it unless I gave them express legal consent. Not true at all. I know I don't "own" it in the full legal sense (or in any sense depending on who you ask. I'm no lawyer, don't want to be.) I made the statement "it's mine" and meant that it was something I put together. Admittedly I could have worded it better. But I was not mad or upset about the situation at all. Nowhere in my post did I say it was a crisis or a major issue, nor that I was entitled to some kind of legal acknowledgment or compensation. Granted the title of the post could have been worded better as well. I admit those oversights.

I asked for input because I was curious to know if there was anything that could be done IF the guy got ornery about it. I would NOT have been upset if there wasn't. And life would have moved on. If you thought, that I thought it was a crisis or a major deal...that is what is unfortunate. Because again...was not what I meant.

I ASKED the guy nicely to remove the item. I explained to him that I designed the layout for a friends personal project. (again. Time it took, skill level involved, and materials used are irrelevant, legality or legality of it all aside as well). The guy said that was cool, he understood, and removed the item. And that was that. I DID NOT THREATEN or in any way convey to him that I thought I was the soul legal lord/master/owner of it and that he was stealing a priceless amazing and original creation, nor that I was entitled to some kind of compensation or acknowledgement. YOU decided to assume that. Basically it was just "hey I made this design a while back for a friend. Could you please not use it?"

And that is all. Nothing more....nothing less.

What the thread turned into....was a mass of assumptions and inflammatory comments. Granted there were some constructive and well thought out. Some not so much.

Now. The legality or illegality of it all doesn't matter in the end. I KNOW the design isn't original, didn't take much time to throw together in photoshop, and used elements that were not crafted from scratch, most found via a google image search. So...all of the fun comments pointing that out were not necessary. I know how I put it together...and others here on the forum are intelligent enough and have been around long enough to know all of that. AND there are plenty of designers and artists on this forum and out there in the wild that can and have done much better than what I can do on my best day.

So that's it. For reals yo. For reals.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2015, 12:44:31 am »
       Just supposing for a minute Jenn would care about this, I would get that, because that's basically what started you off... However why would you care what he does with it? Up to and including turning a profit? That's HIS business, wrong (If you look at any arcade art site FAC) But That's HIS problem. NOT yours. So your intention here is to police the web for eternity looking for violators on something that you gave away anyway? .... You CANNOT have it both ways.   
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 12:47:18 am by jennifer »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2015, 01:19:17 am »
My level of care was just enough that I asked him if he wouldn't use it. I was curious. It's not every day you see something you put together (again...time involved, blah blah irrelevant) end up on ebay. Original or not, legal or not. I thought it was funny, and just thought I'd ask him if he wouldn't use it. No evil intent. Not answering any bat signal. Not going to go on a never ending crusade to stop people from using what I put together or what others put together. Just in this particular case, I was curious....and asked him not to use it. That's all.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2015, 01:45:15 am »
Your lucid points and well articulated thoughts have no place in this thread. You're arguing with someone who talks about themself in the third person.  :lol
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 02:12:25 am by 8BitMonk »
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2015, 02:16:05 am »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.

You're right, they both have the same right to it which is...wait for it... neither of them can legally sell it. Thanks for proving my point Jennifer.

Technically, the OP shouldn't being using copyrighted character art/fonts/logos/etc, personal use or no.  Just because a company doesn't explicitly sue him for it, doesn't mean it's legal.

Personal use is not a license to break copyright.

Personal use is an exclusion to copyright under Fair Use. Right there along with nonprofit and educational use. It is the reason why DVR'ing a tv show is legal. It is the reason why making a mixtape is legal. It is the reason why making a collage from magazines is perfectly legal. The OP can use whatever he pleases as long as he doesn't distribute or sell it.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2015, 10:24:24 am »
       Just supposing for a minute Jenn would care about this, I would get that, because that's basically what started you off... However why would you care what he does with it? Up to and including turning a profit? That's HIS business, wrong (If you look at any arcade art site FAC) But That's HIS problem. NOT yours. So your intention here is to police the web for eternity looking for violators on something that you gave away anyway? .... You CANNOT have it both ways.

Settle down pinballjenn. You obviously arent picking up what he's putting down.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2015, 11:04:42 am »
      That's the most ridicules, convoluted statement ever to grace these forums.... The Ebay guy has just as much rights to it as the OP.

You're right, they both have the same right to it which is...wait for it... neither of them can legally sell it. Thanks for proving my point Jennifer.

Technically, the OP shouldn't being using copyrighted character art/fonts/logos/etc, personal use or no.  Just because a company doesn't explicitly sue him for it, doesn't mean it's legal.

Personal use is not a license to break copyright.

Personal use is an exclusion to copyright under Fair Use. Right there along with nonprofit and educational use. It is the reason why DVR'ing a tv show is legal. It is the reason why making a mixtape is legal. It is the reason why making a collage from magazines is perfectly legal. The OP can use whatever he pleases as long as he doesn't distribute or sell it.

I'm not aware of any explicit "personal use" clause within the copyright act.  As I understand copyright law, fair use is specific to review, criticism, reporting, and education.  It does not give people a free license to copy whatever they please as long as they don't sell it.

For example, say I was an artist selling prints of a particular drawing or painting.  I post a picture of what I am selling on my website.  Does that give everyone license to download and print said picture to hang on their wall, instead of buying a print from me?  No, it doesn't.  They would be violating my copyright and I could legally sue them for it.

As for home video/audio recordings, my understanding is there is a clause in the Audio Home Recording Act that explicitly allows for personal use of video or audio recordings.  But that is specific to video and audio.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:18:04 am by shponglefan »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2015, 11:45:03 am »
Copyright is interesting, but there is also trademarking involved when you start using trademarked images, logos, and even word combinations.  It is perfectly legal for me to start with art and photographs found on the internet and use them to create a cover for a book, as long as I am not taking the untouched art and just pasting my title on it.  Also, if I am using any kind of trademarked image within my art I am probably in trouble.  As a matter of fact, the original title to my book was "The Popsicle Factory", but before officially publishing I looked into whether I would be in trouble using the word "Popsicle" in my title for a commercially available book.  I found that the company that owns the trademark is very active in suing anyone who uses it (as well as a number of other "icle" words) and in fact there was a "fair use" trial quite a number of years ago that the owners of the trademark won.  I decided it was probably a bad idea to use the word in my title, so I changed it.

If someone read my book and decided to write something with a similar story line, similar characters, a similar cover, and a similar title, it would be difficult to sue them for copyright infringement.  There is a lot of gray area when it comes to copyrights.  However, if someone copied my book word for word, changed the character's names, the title, and the cover art, they would be in clear violation of copyright.  I could take a concept straight from any story, movie, or television show and write my own book on it and be perfectly fine legally (although it might gain some criticism for not being original) because it is my words.  Gatsu created a piece of art and hence he is protected by copyright.  Someone selling that art unchanged is a violation of his rights.  Just because Gatsu is subject to a lawsuit because he used a trademarked image doesn't change the fact that his work is protected.  If the seller started with the same artwork and logos that Gatsu started with and then created his own work from it, he would likely be OK, particularly since something as generic as a control panel layout can't really be copyrighted.. it is too common.  Of course, then he would still run into the issue of using a trademarked image in a commercially available piece of art...

FYI, I pirated a lot of stuff when I was younger.  I had the attitude that if it could be copied easily I should be free to do so.  Plus I didn't have the money to buy things I wanted.  Sure, it was stealing, but I didn't see it that way as it was all ones and zeros.  My view changed over the years, and I pay for everything I get now.  Karma kicked me in the butt though when I found out my book was posted for free on several websites.  Someone bought it, ripped it from the DRM protected format, and put it up as a PDF.  The site I found it at even had a bartering system with a currency people could use to pay "bounties" for working links to pirated materials they are interested in, and someone paid to find my book for free (and someone provided it and was paid for their time).  I wrote some letters to the website owners and my book was promptly removed.  I am sure it is still out there on the more private pirate file sharing sites, but the way I look at it is those people who are going to download it there are not going to ever buy it anyway and those sites don't come up on Google so paying customers will never find it and have to buy if they want it.  This other site was sitting on page 1 of a google search, right below the link to my book on Amazon, so that was hurting sales. 

Trust me, I know the feeling when you find YOUR work being handled in a way you never wanted, but you fixed it so take pride in the fact that it was good enough to make money for someone.  Once I accepted the fact that people would pirate my work, I realized it feels pretty good to have created something good enough for people to WANT to pirate. 

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2015, 11:54:08 am »
Trust me, I know the feeling when you find YOUR work being handled in a way you never wanted, but you fixed it so take pride in the fact that it was good enough to make money for someone.  Once I accepted the fact that people would pirate my work, I realized it feels pretty good to have created something good enough for people to WANT to pirate.
I totally agree. I myself make all my artwork publicly available at all times. Even the source files. Beacuse let's face it: It's just some rip-off of the original artwork. If someone like to use it, sell it or whatever, I say go ahead! It would make me proud.  :)

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2015, 01:06:16 pm »
I'm not aware of any explicit "personal use" clause within the copyright act.  As I understand copyright law, fair use is specific to review, criticism, reporting, and education.  It does not give people a free license to copy whatever they please as long as they don't sell it.

You are right that it is not specifically addressed in the law. Many countries like Canada and UK have private copying exemptions and the US doesn't. In the US it is implied only.

The part of the law I was addressing was the part 1 of the fair use test, which tests whether or not the intent was for profit or commercial gain. It does not list the uses allowed. That is deliberate, because there are many potential not for profit uses. Educational and nonprofit are specific cited examples to make those exclusions clear, but in a nutshell, test 1 is simply looking at commercial or financial gain and private use passes the test.

I can actually use copyrighted material for my work as well. Even though I work for a commercial, profit-making company, I make a lot of safety education materials, and I am fairly well defended under fair use. I might be pushing the envelope if I put Mickey Mouse on a safety posters (not to mention running into trademark issues), but I in essence can pull whatever safety info I find and reuse or adapt it without any permission.

Also, in the law,  there is the library exclusion, stating that private personal copies or materials made available may be made if it is not for any commercial advantage or made available to the public in that same format.

There are also transformative use protections, giving rights to alter or use work to in order create new works. If having the base materials is illegal, then by logic, there could be no legal transformative work.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 01:34:44 pm by Vigo »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2015, 01:13:32 pm »
#JustKeepPosting

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2015, 01:46:07 pm »
lol, sorry Gatsu, I meant to be speaking in general terms. Don't get me wrong, I have no ill feelings toward you, I'm definitely a fan of your projects and your contribution to the arcade community. It's just these ethical questions about art that always gets me heated. ;)

I understand man. It's no problem. And I appreciate it. I get where some of the comments people are posting are coming from, though some seem to just be inflammatory just for the sake of being so. Ultimately...I know what my intent was with the post. And it certainly wasn't what most of the commenters seem to have made it out to be.

It just sucks how it's gotten so blown out of proportion.

It sucks and a heated discussion about copyright & trademark & licenses on this forum is quite ironic.

Now if you will excuse me i'm going to go play one of the hundreds of ROMS's ive downloaded off the internet in my scratch built exact replica arcade cabinet made from scanned & printed original art i don't own with MAME.

which is totally legal if I keep it for my own personal use & don't try to sell it to anyone.  ::)

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2015, 01:48:12 pm »
I've got this hard drive full of games I didn't pay for and will likely never play. I've got a copy of photoshop I probably didn't pay for but do use for personal expression. If that hard drive crashes in the woods and falls on the maybe unlicensed Photoshop is there anyone to hear your indignant outrage?

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2015, 01:50:38 pm »
That depends.  Did you slightly tweak some artwork and affix it to the hard drive before the tree fell on it?


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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2015, 02:25:26 pm »
which is totally legal if I keep it for my own personal use & don't try to sell it to anyone.  ::)

There is a difference between infringement and theft.  :whap

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2015, 02:32:04 pm »
I've got this hard drive full of games I didn't pay for and will likely never play. I've got a copy of photoshop I probably didn't pay for but do use for personal expression. If that hard drive crashes in the woods and falls on the maybe unlicensed Photoshop is there anyone to hear your indignant outrage?
I just got a letter (a couple months ago) from a legal firm who represents Adobe and Microsoft.  Apparently this firm is making bank by going after anyone who has an illegal copy of any kind of software by anyone they represent.  I looked into it and not only is it totally legit but quite scary at the fines they are able to levy against companies.  It works much like tax fraud... if someone reports you for tax fraud and you get audited, they get a percentage of any back taxes and fines recovered.  Likewise, if a disgruntled or former employee reports your company to these guys and they investigate and find pirated software, the person reporting gets a percentage of the fines.

There was even a case where an employee put a pirated copy of Photoshop on their personal laptop over a weekend when they needed to finish a project, and although the company had licensed copies they could have used, they were fined for using the unlicensed copies.  Often the fines are in the 10's of thousands of dollars.

Luckily I have fully licensed versions of everything I use, which wasn't always the case. 

You might just want to be careful about who you admit your pirated software usage to.  Just sayin.. ;)

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2015, 02:38:07 pm »


 a heated discussion about copyright & trademark & licenses on this forum is quite ironic.
Quarterly to semi annual event. 

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2015, 03:02:53 pm »


 a heated discussion about copyright & trademark & licenses on this forum is quite ironic.
Quarterly to semi annual event.

Ah.
I'm relatively new here and was being facetious (I thought the  ::) gave it away). :dunno



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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2015, 03:11:45 pm »
I just got a letter (a couple months ago) from a legal firm who represents Adobe and Microsoft.

I have legit Adobe suite and to be honest I liked it better when I was bootleggy in college. (Well, I had a legit license I got for free because of a damaged install disc).  Never had to perform the weekly update garbage like I am nagged constantly on with creative cloud.

Curious about your story on this firm, though. What gives a private firm the right to audit and investigate another company's private company computers? I don't get how that could work.





Ah.
I'm relatively new here and was being facetious (I thought the  ::) gave it away). :dunno


We like to interpret as we see fit around here.  :lol

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2015, 03:18:06 pm »
Scare tactic from companies hoping you'll cut them a check to go away.  Buddy of mine worked IT for a company that used stolen copies of everything.  They told the "license police" to go pound sand and never heard anything about it ever again. 

 :applaud:

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2015, 08:22:14 pm »
PBJ is spot on.    I would expect you are talking about a letter from the BSA which doesn't mean ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  If MS or Adobe have any issue, they will always reach out directly and to be honest, are quite easy to work with if there is an identified issue.      Been there, done that.   

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2015, 01:12:03 am »
    Gatsu:   It was not my intention to single you out... And for that I apologize.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2015, 01:24:03 am »
     Whatever, Im not inflamed, In fact could care less about your big "Problem".... The real tragedy here is you will Still go through life with the mentality that its yours.

I'm sorry that's what you decided to take from the post. It honestly wasn't what I meant at all.

Let me try to explain it again.

I was NOT mad that the guy was selling a print of something I put together. (time it took, skill level involved, materials used are irrelevant) You assumed that because I said the design was mine, that I actually believed that all of its contents were 100% mine and no one could do anything with it unless I gave them express legal consent. Not true at all. I know I don't "own" it in the full legal sense (or in any sense depending on who you ask. I'm no lawyer, don't want to be.) I made the statement "it's mine" and meant that it was something I put together. Admittedly I could have worded it better. But I was not mad or upset about the situation at all. Nowhere in my post did I say it was a crisis or a major issue, nor that I was entitled to some kind of legal acknowledgment or compensation. Granted the title of the post could have been worded better as well. I admit those oversights.

I asked for input because I was curious to know if there was anything that could be done IF the guy got ornery about it. I would NOT have been upset if there wasn't. And life would have moved on. If you thought, that I thought it was a crisis or a major deal...that is what is unfortunate. Because again...was not what I meant.

I ASKED the guy nicely to remove the item. I explained to him that I designed the layout for a friends personal project. (again. Time it took, skill level involved, and materials used are irrelevant, legality or legality of it all aside as well). The guy said that was cool, he understood, and removed the item. And that was that. I DID NOT THREATEN or in any way convey to him that I thought I was the soul legal lord/master/owner of it and that he was stealing a priceless amazing and original creation, nor that I was entitled to some kind of compensation or acknowledgement. YOU decided to assume that. Basically it was just "hey I made this design a while back for a friend. Could you please not use it?"

And that is all. Nothing more....nothing less.

What the thread turned into....was a mass of assumptions and inflammatory comments. Granted there were some constructive and well thought out. Some not so much.

Now. The legality or illegality of it all doesn't matter in the end. I KNOW the design isn't original, didn't take much time to throw together in photoshop, and used elements that were not crafted from scratch, most found via a google image search. So...all of the fun comments pointing that out were not necessary. I know how I put it together...and others here on the forum are intelligent enough and have been around long enough to know all of that. AND there are plenty of designers and artists on this forum and out there in the wild that can and have done much better than what I can do on my best day.

So that's it. For reals yo. For reals.

You should have asked him to cut you in and you could have given him the hi resolution prints.  Artists steal everyone's work, it is not intended to be detrimental, but more of a compliment.  If I took a picture of an arcade control panel, photo-shopped it from scratch and sold it, nobody would bother.  The fact that you "stole" the idea from another "artist" to make your creation, to improve or to help a client, shouldn't warrant such an outcry as this thread demonstrates.  You should have dealt with it as a compliment.  PBJ's original comment is right though, and since we IP steal the dickens out of this hobby, I do not see anyone "bothering".
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2015, 01:47:55 am »
One of the companies here in my little town of Billings (an engineering firm) was using all unlicensed copies of AutoCAD.  One disgruntled employee ratted them out and they ended up with $500,000 in fines, plus they had to buy some 50 licenses of AutoCAD.  This was 17 years ago now.  You can believe what you want to believe, but I have seen companies get hit hard with fines for unlicensed software first hand, and fighting it is a lose/lose situation. 

I dug pretty deep into the legitimacy of the last letter I got, as well as consulted with our lawyer because I have had fishing letters before that try to scare you into buying licenses and whatnot, but this one was indeed legitimate.  You can tell the fishermen to pound sand, but there are some firms you tread a little more lightly around.  My company has spent well over a half million in defending against frivolous lawsuits in the past, and when we win, we still lose.  I didn't pay these guys a penny, but I sure as hell made sure nobody in the company had any unlicensed software.  CYA...

I completely hate the idea of paying Adobe nearly $1000 per year to use their software, particularly since I often go a month or more without using photoshop or illustrator.  I got by for 7 years on photoshop 5.0, and then for many more on cs3.  It sucks I can no longer buy a current version and just own it, and I have a hard time spending $2500 for a 2 year old version that will never get updated again.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2015, 05:53:56 am »
Use GIMP.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2015, 06:55:23 am »
Use GIMP.

Or gimpshop if you are that used to the interface.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2015, 01:19:32 pm »
Most of the original stuff in this hobby comes from the cabinet makers...... If we were audited on our avatars, art and mame setups we would all be doing time in Club Fed :-)
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2015, 12:01:10 am »
One of the companies here in my little town of Billings (an engineering firm) was using all unlicensed copies of AutoCAD.  One disgruntled employee ratted them out and they ended up with $500,000 in fines, plus they had to buy some 50 licenses of AutoCAD.  This was 17 years ago now.  You can believe what you want to believe, but I have seen companies get hit hard with fines for unlicensed software first hand, and fighting it is a lose/lose situation. 

I dug pretty deep into the legitimacy of the last letter I got, as well as consulted with our lawyer because I have had fishing letters before that try to scare you into buying licenses and whatnot, but this one was indeed legitimate.  You can tell the fishermen to pound sand, but there are some firms you tread a little more lightly around.  My company has spent well over a half million in defending against frivolous lawsuits in the past, and when we win, we still lose.  I didn't pay these guys a penny, but I sure as hell made sure nobody in the company had any unlicensed software.  CYA...

I completely hate the idea of paying Adobe nearly $1000 per year to use their software, particularly since I often go a month or more without using photoshop or illustrator.  I got by for 7 years on photoshop 5.0, and then for many more on cs3.  It sucks I can no longer buy a current version and just own it, and I have a hard time spending $2500 for a 2 year old version that will never get updated again.

I used to manage the IT department's software library for a extremely large and well known corporate division, and the acting head of the time needed a spare large office, so he ordered all the filing cabinets in that office emptied and destroyed.  Naturally they did this while I was on holiday, and I found out they sent all the software licenses and disks to the incinerator (we are talking several million dollars worth).  So when the compliance auditor came from HQ, there was all sorts of yelling and crying.  Solution?  I just put a request in for a complete hardware and software upgrade. 

Heck we were still using windows 3.11 anyway.   :laugh2:
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Skaliwagg

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2015, 08:56:45 am »
I shouldn't bother writing this but I will anyways since I just got back to this thread and saw how it has expanded. What I find fascinating in this thread is people’s willingness to find it more than ok to make money off of someone else’s work. Copyright laws aside, who owns what aside, how can you abide by that? Its fine that you don't care about your own work but you really can't see how it would bother someone else? Doesn't matter if it took 5min to 5days, time is money and that is time the seller is profiting on. Do what you want to do but for crying out loud at least realize when it's wrong...


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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2015, 03:05:21 pm »
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:35:25 pm by jennifer »

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2015, 04:51:56 pm »
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Cool story, sis.
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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2015, 02:53:08 am »
I shouldn't bother writing this but I will anyways since I just got back to this thread and saw how it has expanded. What I find fascinating in this thread is people’s willingness to find it more than ok to make money off of someone else’s work. Copyright laws aside, who owns what aside, how can you abide by that? Its fine that you don't care about your own work but you really can't see how it would bother someone else? Doesn't matter if it took 5min to 5days, time is money and that is time the seller is profiting on. Do what you want to do but for crying out loud at least realize when it's wrong...
It isn't so easy to see how much it costs someone until your own work is stolen.  My attitude changed a lot when it happened to me.  Like I said though, as long as it doesn't affect the customers who might pay for my product, I don't really care.  At worst I lose nothing (those who pirate my stuff wouldn't pay for it anyway) and at best I gain potential future customers.

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Re: *RESOLVED* need some input on a stolen control panel design...
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2015, 11:09:04 am »

Settle down pinballjenn. You obviously arent picking up what he's putting down.

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