CONCEPT: Star Wars/ESB/ROTJ custom

[ChadTower]

One of the primary reasons I got into this hobby back in the day was to get a Star Wars.  I have bought a couple badly water trashed cabs over the years but still haven't ever owned a good working Star Wars.  With the new movies coming out the price of this game is already skyrocketing but I think it's time to finally get one anyway.

Sort of.

Haruman and I have been talking for quite a while about building a custom Star Wars.  Nothing over the top but capable of all three SW games using an original CP/yoke.  I have multiple complete CP/Yoke combos from the aforementioned part-out games.  I actually managed to get rebuild kits from Ram Controls.  We're not attached to the original cabinet design. 

If you open up the cabinet design the primary requirement becomes the monitor.  How do we best do this with MAME and a modern monitor?  I know once you use MAME you can use pretty much any monitor but let's see if we can really dial this in.

I'm looking for suggestions from the folks who know the current state of MAME's vector drawing better than I do.  Or maybe an older variant optimized for vectors.  For now let's just think of the best display we can do practically with a modern monitor.  Any size.  Plasma, LCD, CRT.  We will design the cabinet around the best new display we can come up with.

Anyone have some thoughts?   

[ChadTower]

Found a bit of info on screen dimensions at AVSForum.

Screen Dimensions for 16:9 Aspect Ratio Wide-Screen Tv:

 26" = 12.7 (H) x 22.7 (W)..........288.3 (sq.in.)
 27" = 13.2 (H) x 23.5 (W)..........310.2 (sq.in.)
 30" = 14.7 (H) x 26.1 (W)..........383.7 (sq.in.)
 32" = 15.7 (H) x 27.9 (W)..........438.0 (sq.in.)
 34" = 16.7 (H) x 29.6 (W)..........494.3 (sq.in.)
 37" = 18.1 (H) x 32.2 (W)..........582.8 (sq.in.)
 40" = 19.6 (H) x 34.9 (W)..........684.0 (sq.in.)
 42" = 20.6 (H) x 36.6 (W).........754.0 (sq.in.)
 43" = 21.1 (H) x 37.5 (W)..........791.2 (sq.in.)
 44" = 21.6 (H) x 38.3 (W)..........827.3 (sq.in.)
 45" = 22.1 (H) x 39.2 (W)..........866.3 (sq.in.)
 46" = 22.6 (H) x 40.1 (W)..........906.3 (sq.in.)
 47" = 23.0 (H) x 41.0 (W)..........943.0 (sq.in.)
 50" = 24.5 (H) x 43.6 (W)..........1068.2 (sq.in.)
 51" = 25.0 (H) x 44.5 (W)..........1112.5 (sq.in.)
 52" = 25.5 (H) x 45.3 (W)..........1155.1 (sq.in.)
 53" = 26.0 (H) x 46.2 (W)..........1201.2 (sq.in.)
 55" = 27.0 (H) x 47.9 (W)..........1293.3 (sq.in.)
 56" = 27.5 (H) x 48.8 (W)..........1342.0 (sq.in.)
 57" = 27.9 (H) x 49.7 (W)..........1386.6 (sq.in.)
 60" = 29.4 (H) x 52.3 (W)..........1537.6 (sq.in.)
 61" = 29.9 (H) x 53.2 (W)..........1590.7 (sq.in.)
 62" = 30.4 (H) x 54.0 (W)..........1641.6 (sq.in.)
 65" = 31.9 (H) x 56.7 (W)..........1808.7 (sq.in.)
 70" = 34.3 (H) x 61.0 (W)..........2092.3 (sq.in.)

 Here is the formula...

 For a Standard 4:3 screen:
 Width = Diagonal X 0.8
 Height = Diagonal X 0.6
 SO, a 32 inch 4:3 screen is 25.6 inches wide and 19.2 tall.

 For a 16:9 Widescreen:
 Width = Diagonal X 0.87157552765421
 Height = Diagonal X 0.490261259680549
 SO, a 43 inch 16:9 screen is 36.6 inches wide and 20.6 inches tall.

[wp34]

I don't have much to offer but will be watching this thread with interest.  This is a great concept.   

You mentioned Plasma as a possibility.  That might be a good option because they handle the black color so well.  I'm not sure if they made Plasma's small enough though.

[ChadTower]

I don't have much to offer but will be watching this thread with interest.  This is a great concept.   

You mentioned Plasma as a possibility.  That might be a good option because they handle the black color so well.  I'm not sure if they made Plasma's small enough though.

Yeah, I like plasma's black level, and obviously that's most of the screen in Star Wars.  That seems like the place to start.

I found this on Usenet for reference to the originals.  Might be useful for context.

Cockpit
Height:  59.50"
Width:  25.25"
Depth:  73.50"
Weight:  450 lbs
Act Dim Wt*:   569 lbs

Upright
Height:  72.00"
Width:  25.25"
Depth:  32.75"
Weight:  321 lbs

Geometrically in order to get the equivalent of a 25" Amplifone in there we're going to have to use a 32" widescreen mounted horizontally.  I think the equivalent of the 25" Amp is the minimum we should go for.  I'm all for going bigger if we can make a cabinet that suits it.

I should probably mention that I'm not a fan of actually sitting in a Star Wars cockpit.  Yeah, it's one of the most amazing looking cabinets ever made, but try sitting in one for an hour.  Once you're inside it adds pretty much nothing other than an uncomfortable plywood seat.  So even if we were to go cockpit it would not be something that resembles the original.

[yotsuya]

I have an original SW I picked up that was gutted. I added all the parts I collected over the years and rebuilt it sans boards and monitor. It's running MAME booting right into SW, but if I open the coin door and hit a switch, I can play ESB, ROTJ, Firefox, Paperboy, and STUN Runner as well.

As far as monitor goes, I just put in a 19" Dell CRT I picked up from Craigslist. I'm not running a special vector version of MAME or anything. You'd be hard-pressed to see a big difference if you're a casual gamer. If you're a hard-core vector collector, sure, but the CRT looks great. I decased the monitor and shoved it into an arcade monitor cage I had from a broken Wells-Gardner. CRT all the way.

How big do you actually WANT to make this cabinet?

[ChadTower]

I don't want it THAT much bigger than your typical arcade upright.  That would pretty much max us out at a 32" widescreen, I think.  That gets us to about a 30-32" wide cabinet.

There is also the possibility of tracking down a WEGA HD CRT and using the VGA or maybe even HDMI in on that.  Then we'd be able to have that same ~25" cabinet and have a 25" monitor too.

EDIT:  Just looked up the WEGA weights on CRTs.  28" is around 205lb and 24" is 150lb.  That is a major drawback here.

[dkersten]

In my last cab (coincidentally star wars themed, lol) I went with a 32" LCD I picked up at Costco for $219 (JVC, I would have to look up the model number), and with 29.5" interior width I had almost exactly an inch left over (.5" on each side) which worked out very well for mounting it.  The bezel on the TV is I think 3/8" on each side, so it came out just about exactly 28.5" wide.  The screen looks fantastic and was VERY easy to hack to get an external power switch for.  I wasn't that impressed with the HLSL vector blurs in mame, but otherwise it looked great with vector games (I just dialed the ghosting down quite a bit and it is fine).

On horizontal games the screen size is perfect, nice and big but not over the top huge and certainly not too small.  The price was right too, better than a cheap 27" monitor. 

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  Given the different requirements for mounting a 32" 16:9 LCD and a 25" CRT I'm starting to think about a pedestal.  That way the display type is independent from the cabinet and gives us the freedom to really play with the display type on a "finished" cabinet.  It also gives me some freedom within my gameroom to find a creative place to put it.  A corner or next to the protruding sewer trunk, etc.

[Generic Eric]

Hrm.  Given the different requirements for mounting a 32" 16:9 LCD and a 25" CRT I'm starting to think about a pedestal.  That way the display type is independent from the cabinet and gives us the freedom to really play with the display type on a "finished" cabinet.  It also gives me some freedom within my gameroom to find a creative place to put it.  A corner or next to the protruding sewer trunk, etc.

If you are willing to consider a low profile cockpit, you should check out the list of projects on thewayiplay.com 
Maybe you could just dock the pit in front of your TV/monitor.

[ChadTower]

Nice, I will do that when I have the chance.  Thanks.

I am sort of digging the idea of a TV Games sort of self contained CP that can be plugged into any HDMI display.  It would definitely suit my gameroom better at this point and be a jump off point for a bunch of them.

[yotsuya]

Too bad. I have the .DXF files for a Star Wars cab. I'm sure HaRuMaN could use them to cut a real cab - that's what I did.

[ChadTower]

Well hell, if that is also an option, it is worth considering.  I do have all of the parts from an original game. 

[Le Chuck]

Am I to understand that you are in possession of multiple yokes in various stages of repair/completeness?

I happen to be in want of a yoke in need of mucho TLC.  Missing gears okay, missing springs will work, missing pots, wiring, etc all okay.  Hell, missing cover okay too.  Have anything you can sell me? 

[ChadTower]

Am I to understand that you are in possession of multiple yokes in various stages of repair/completeness?

I have three complete yokes.  Two with CP.  Two from badly water damaged cabs I bought for parts and one that was a toss-in on a game deal like 10 years ago.

I happen to be in want of a yoke in need of mucho TLC.  Missing gears okay, missing springs will work, missing pots, wiring, etc all okay.  Hell, missing cover okay too.  Have anything you can sell me?

Hell, if you can help me find a 6100, that could happen.  That's the piece I can never find anymore and the key missing piece from doing something original.


I had another thought this afternoon.  How does converting an Asteroids Deluxe to Star Wars sound?  Inverting the video is a simple matter of swapping yoke wires.  A unique backdrop could be created for video overlay.  It sounds like a huge project but maybe it isn't.  I have an Asteroids Deluxe that I have been thinking of selling because I need space and also have a Space Duel.  It wouldn't be that hard to do this in a reversible way, I think.  I have the harness, the right power block, I have a stack of AR boards, I have a nonworking Star Wars boardset.  If I had a suitable 6100 or Amp and the Star Wars boardset were working the hardest part of this project becomes simply mounting the yoke.

EDIT:  it also occurs to me that I have two g08s and that is the same tube/yoke as a 6100.  That could be converted if necessary.  And I have two Zektor ZVGs from their last run meaning maybe I don't even have to convert if I want to go VectorMAME and the g08.  I've been accumulating random vector goodness for years and maybe this is the time to start using some of it.   

[jdbailey1206]

I have three complete yokes.  Two with CP.  Two from badly water damaged cabs I bought for parts and one that was a toss-in on a game deal like 10 years ago.

And here I thought I couldn't find any because I wasn't looking hard enough.   

[Generic Eric]

I have three complete yokes.  Two with CP.  Two from badly water damaged cabs I bought for parts and one that was a toss-in on a game deal like 10 years ago.

And here I thought I couldn't find any because I wasn't looking hard enough.   

Somewhere, in a land far far away, is a warehouse that a time from long, long ago, filled with parts and complete cabinets.  All we need now is the Raider of the lost ARCade!

[Xiaou2]

Someone really needs to make an affordable laser-show style vector projecor.  Lasers are bright as or brighter.. than a vector monitor.   It would be easy to scale to any size.

 Another option, is to convert a tube tv.  One guy here built such a device.  Pretty amazing.

 I agree,  as a larger and older fan... that the original sitdown isnt as comfy as when I was a youngin.  However... I dont see why that stops someone from tweaking the design for max comfort and style.

 There are many games that are more comfy in sitdown form.  As an older guy,  I often preferred sitting down.

 I also like the idea of rigging up a motion cockpit.  They was a prototype motion chair for starwars, called the Hotseat... or something like that.  I think it can be done in a much simpler manor though.

 Add some bass shakers under the seat and backrest.  Maybe even a back massager for non game therapy. Closeable sides for a full immersion and surround sound experience.

 Possible multi displays.. for each window area... for custom / pc games.


 Another thing id LOVE to see, is a sterescopic 3d hack of the original game.  Would make the trenches so much easier to navigate.

 Beyond bass shakers.. an outrun like assembly could be used to shake the entire cabinet up quite violently.

Pinball Flahers with a red/orange sheild could strobe when you get hit as well.  White or xenon strobe could flicker when deathstar explodes.

 I suppose it might be Interesting to try the occulous rift for the display as well ... ?

[Xiaou2]

Monitor theory...

 Had another idea:  CRT Overdrive.

 One of the primary differences between a typical crt and vector monitor, is the brightness.

 Part of that is due to the way a vector draws in a plotted path, allowing tbe phosphors to get far more excited... and thus far more brighter.

 Without converting the drawing mode to full out vector format,  I wonder if it may be possible to at least get somewhat close to this level of effect.. by turning a crt tvs voltage dial up... and then tweaking mames output so that the black level is far below normal spec ,  to keep the screen from being grayed or whitened out.  It may also reqire some tweaking of the colors... to add more range and or voltage simulation.

 This would allow standard crt zig zag drawing... and yet add the ability to get the super-bright phosphor effects.

 What do you think?

[ChadTower]

Another option, is to convert a tube tv.  One guy here built such a device.  Pretty amazing.

That was Le Chuck, yes?  This is something I'd love to do but seriously doubt I'll ever source the right 90 degree tube.   

[Generic Eric]

Another option, is to convert a tube tv.  One guy here built such a device.  Pretty amazing.

That was Le Chuck, yes?  This is something I'd love to do but seriously doubt I'll ever source the right 90 degree tube.   

I thought that was maximus/griffndod /arcadeicons?

[ChadTower]

Could be, sometimes it's hard to track the people behind the "personas" on Facebook.  I usually don't try.

[Le Chuck]

It was definitely Joel/Maximus/Griffindodd.  Thread here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133273.msg1426718.html#msg1426718

[SavannahLion]

http://hackaday.io/project/2871

[ChadTower]

http://hackaday.io/project/2871

That is ridiculously cool and I'd love to spend a ton of time going through every aspect of it.  It's way beyond my current abilities, though, and way beyond my available time.  I might have to circle back to that later on.  How awesome would it be to be able to make NEW Vectrexes with an emulator?


EDIT:  Oh wow, thanks to that link, it has just occurred to me that I could run Star Wars on the existing g05 in the Asteroids Deluxe.  At least in the interim.  That should be possible with either VectorMAME or a real PCB (I think you can combine the color signals/syncs).  I'll do some checking but I think that you can run AD off the Star Wars transformer block and AR board but not the other way around.  Hrm.  This is interesting.

[yotsuya]

I had another thought this afternoon.  How does converting an Asteroids Deluxe to Star Wars sound?

I don't think the control panel has a sufficient angle for a SW yoke.

[ChadTower]

I had another thought this afternoon.  How does converting an Asteroids Deluxe to Star Wars sound?

I don't think the control panel has a sufficient angle for a SW yoke.

It is a reasonable point but I bet it can be addressed in how the yoke is mounted to the steel CP.

[yotsuya]

I had another thought this afternoon.  How does converting an Asteroids Deluxe to Star Wars sound?

I don't think the control panel has a sufficient angle for a SW yoke.

It is a reasonable point but I bet it can be addressed in how the yoke is mounted to the steel CP.

If you can do it without it looking like a goiter, more power to you.

Oh, and I've been talking to HaRuMaN about that thing you PMed me on. 

[PL1]

I had another thought this afternoon.  How does converting an Asteroids Deluxe to Star Wars sound?

I don't think the control panel has a sufficient angle for a SW yoke.

It is a reasonable point but I bet it can be addressed in how the yoke is mounted to the steel CP.

Road Blasters CP has an angled mount plate that might save you some work.   





Obviously, the RB yoke is optical, but a SW yoke should mount on there no problem.   


Scott

[SavannahLion]

http://hackaday.io/project/2871

That is ridiculously cool and I'd love to spend a ton of time going through every aspect of it.  It's way beyond my current abilities, though, and way beyond my available time.  I might have to circle back to that later on.  How awesome would it be to be able to make NEW Vectrexes with an emulator?


EDIT:  Oh wow, thanks to that link, it has just occurred to me that I could run Star Wars on the existing g05 in the Asteroids Deluxe.  At least in the interim.  That should be possible with either VectorMAME or a real PCB (I think you can combine the color signals/syncs).  I'll do some checking but I think that you can run AD off the Star Wars transformer block and AR board but not the other way around.  Hrm.  This is interesting.

No prob. I keep an eye out for new things in Vector news. I really want one and would happily give up a cab and some garage space for one. So if there's a chance I can build one from other components, I keep a mental library of them.

But alas, I keep just missing the deals that float by. Sucks to be me I guess 

[ChadTower]

I picked up most of mine as parts of larger deals.  Buy all 5 games get the 2 vectors and sell the other 3.  Buy this one good complete vector AND these 5 crap project games.  The spare vector parts I have accumulated were all from buying severely incomplete or totally water trashed vectors from warehouses.  I remember having to pull over on the highway because an Asteroids was throwing chunks of rotten MDF and T molding all over the road (insert standard MDF/Chad joke here).  It IS a pain in the ass but eventually worth the effort.  I wouldn't have been able to get my Red Baron any other way and I have an extra Space Duel awaiting conversion to Major Havoc.  That's just waiting on the time to do it.  Already have the working MH board and a Ram Controls roller.

Of course a lot of that was when it was still difficult but not impossible to find replacement monitors.  Now they're damn near unobtanium because everybody is hoarding those that remain.

[ChadTower]

Heh, that Asteroids mention above reminded me I have a couple photos from that.  What you can't tell from the photo is that Battlezone is missing the monitor, boards, and shroud.  I still have that one waiting its turn.  Star Wars had the monitor without a deflection board, no gameboard, and the entire back/floor of the cabinet was powder from water damage.  Asteroids Deluxe had the transformer block, harness, and mirror IIRC.  The Star Wars and Asteroids Deluxe got parted out because the SW cab was not salvageable and I couldn't find anyone to take the AD cabinet for free.  The AD sort of hurt to part out because it was a nice cabinet but I already had one and nobody wanted this one.  :p  What you don't see is the aforementioned Asteroids that started to fly apart on the highway and is in a crooked pile outside the photograph. 

Realistically I bought ALL of that to get the Red Baron.  That game is complete, working, and just needs cabinet love / joystick rebuild to be awesome again. 

[ChadTower]

Quick update:

 I have located a 6100.  It's nonworking but the burn is minor and already Star Wars.  This wasn't a completely necessary part but it does still keep open the option of using a real Star Wars boardset rather than VectorMAME.  And I needed a spare 6100 for other reasons anyway should we not use it here.

[oota goota]

ay updates on this?

[leapinlew]

Knowing Chad it's been done for almost a year and he placed next to his horror themed bartop and it in his shed after rolling it across his Mario brick patio.

[Barry Barcrest]

Why don't people use that dedicated vector game emulator instead of mame? It makes a really good effort of making it look it's a real vector monitor.

[yotsuya]

Why don't people use that dedicated vector game emulator instead of mame? It makes a really good effort of making it look it's a real vector monitor.

It hasn't been updated in a long time and is a lot of work to set with an FE, or so I was told.