New Version ArcadeVGA 3000

[AndyWarne]

The ArcadeVGA card is now updated with a new version.
This is in response to those who require a faster 3D card for PC games such as SF4.
We benchmarked against SF4 during development to ensure 60FPS at full foreground and background detail setting.
Details here http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

There are new drivers which integrate the Tri-Sync utility so the monitor type (standard res or multi-frequency) can be selected on install.
Drivers for Windows 7 32 and 64 , Vista 32 , 64 and XP included.

The price of the older AGP card is now halved, while we clear stocks. We will no longer be supplying an AGP card when out of stock.
 

[SlayerAlex]

wow thats amazing news.

[UberCade]

Definitely! I was really worried when the previous version PCI-E card was sold out because I was finally ready to buy one, and they were all gone. I was really excited to see this new version, and I already bought one. My cab is near completion and I'll be ordering the parts to build the PC for it next week, so hopefully everything will come together around the same time. Really looking forward to enjoying my cabinet rather than working on it everyday!

[TPB]

Wow Andy, it looks great.   

I'll have to russle up an order soon, and get one for my SF II cabinet.  The ArcadeVGA was looking a bit dated, I've been wondering whether you'd release an update.

I'm glad to see the answer is YES, and here we have it !!

[Thenasty]

Hi Andy,
 
Great work on updating the video cards.
How about us using Advmame ?

I ask this same question when you got the newer PCI-e/AGP cards made.

My old AGP AVGA card is working good. I was just concern about updating in the foture when AGP migh not be supported any longer and have to purchase a AVGA PCI-e card, but I need it to work with ADVMAMe (DOS).

[FrizzleFried]

To be 100% clear... you have drivers for Windows XP x64?

[Bender]

To be 100% clear... you have drivers for Windows XP x64?

I had the same question

[mytymaus007]

Now here is a company that keeps progressing Thank you Andy Cant wait to upgrade 

[rlehm]

Just curious about a couple things. One being, it's advertised for computer monitors and arcade monitors. Is there any benefit if you use a tv? Also, I am thinking of upgrading from a tv to the VGA Arcade Monitor D9800 from Wells Garner. What makes this graphics card superior to those at say Best Buy? Some of those have a gig of memory etc etc..

I see the biggest benefit is "Allows DOS MAME or MAME32 to run almost all games at their native resolutions without hardware stretching, scan converters or other degradation." Can't the newer cards do this?

Sorry, I am in the market to buy a card and the price of this is low compared to what I was going to buy and would leave money for the Wells Garner, but I want to make sure I won't regret it

will this card display hyperspin nicely too?

[FrizzleFried]

Right there on Andys site it says:

Vista/Windows 7 32 and 64 bit drivers included. Also XP 32.

Sounds like us XP x64 users are,  once again,  ass-out.

That sucks too... bigtime.  I'll NEVER own Vista and if I ever do get Windows 7 it will be for my office PC.  Oh well... I suppose I have to stick with soft15khz...

 

[Epyx]

I'll NEVER own Vista and if I ever do get Windows 7 it will be for my office PC

FrizzleFried...as an IT professional I agree with you on Vista..it is utter crap...but honestly, Windows 7 *IS* the new XP...it is everything Vista should have been but wasn't. I would strongly urge you to get a copy of 7 Pro and give it a shot.

Andy...this is awesome news!  I will be ordering one *very* soon.

[Haze]

I'll NEVER own Vista and if I ever do get Windows 7 it will be for my office PC

FrizzleFried...as an IT professional I agree with you on Vista..it is utter crap...but honestly, Windows 7 *IS* the new XP...it is everything Vista should have been but wasn't. I would strongly urge you to get a copy of 7 Pro and give it a shot.

Andy...this is awesome news!  I will be ordering one *very* soon.

To be fair, Vista is a bit crap, but mainly because the default settings for services etc. are awful.

Windows 7 inherits the majority of the crap from Vista, but is better configured by default, and is much more up-to-date out the box, so it seems less crap.

A slipstreamed Vista install including all the latest service packs and updates with services etc. fine tuned isn't really any better / worse than a Windows 7 install.  I don't like some of the changes they made to explorer etc. in Vista / 7, but they're not going away any time soon.

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been when it came out, but isn't really a radical step away from what a nice clean install of a fully up-to-date Vista is now.  Windows 7 just has even more changes to come to terms with if you're used to the XP interface.  Neither OS is really what I'd call progress, but, as you've seen, support for XP64 is pretty much 0.

[wp34]

Vista with the latest SP is actually pretty good.  I ran the 64-bit version for about 6 months and was very happy with it.  I've been on Windows 7 for about two months and am even happier.  Both were very stable--especially Windows 7.  Oddly enough the only issues I've had have been with Microsoft products.  Visual Studio, SSMS and Visual Source Safe would hang occasionally until I moved all source files off the network onto my local drive.   Windows 7 is definitely worth trying.

[helpmebuild]

Wow - looks like I ordered my card 2 weeks too early.

Would have been nice to know something was "coming soon" before I purchased the older version.

Ouch...

[AndyWarne]

To cover all questions:

I will consider XP64 drivers but its a real handful supporting 5 versions already. I have resisted XP64 as it is no longer supported by MS nor virtually all hardware manufacturers.

Advanced MAME I dont believe works with any Radeon cards. Not sure why use Advanced Mame?
On this subject, although the card supportd DOS, I would never recommend anyone use DOS for Mame on modern hardware. It will be very limited, slow, no hardware stretch (in case you do need it for some games), very difficult to get sound support etc etc. Modern motherboards are pretty useless at running DOS.

There is no benefit in using a TV as these cannot support any other resolution other than TV res. The exception is SCART RGB connected TV which will work just like an arcade monitor.

Using a W-G D9800 at VGA-only resolutions is a huge waste because these monitors are designed (expensively) to be able to run at standard resolution (15Khz) and 25 and 31 Khz (VGA) as well. So you might as well buy a VGA monitor if you are not using the D9800 at anything other than VGA resolutions.

 

[DashRendar]

Wow - looks like I ordered my card 2 weeks too early.

Would have been nice to know something was "coming soon" before I purchased the older version.

Ouch...

Doh- I'm in a similar boat.

Bought my ArcadeVGA about 4 months ago, which is still new in the box, while I have been amassing the parts for my project.  Bugger all!   

That said, I am glad to see this new version come out- it's good for everyone in this hobby.

[Havok]

Just do a tweaked Tiny7 install; that way you get the latest driver support and 64bit for maximum Mame performance...

It is a shame about XP64, but considering the lack of support, really the new windows is the way to go. We're talking about contemporary hardware, so the performance hit is negligible.

[raungst]

Wow - looks like I ordered my card 2 weeks too early.

Would have been nice to know something was "coming soon" before I purchased the older version.

Ouch...

Wow. I'm in the exact same boat. I would have waited 2 weeks to have a new version, especially after waiting for it to be in stock so long. 

[rlehm]

Using a W-G D9800 at VGA-only resolutions is a huge waste because these monitors are designed (expensively) to be able to run at standard resolution (15Khz) and 25 and 31 Khz (VGA) as well. So you might as well buy a VGA monitor if you are not using the D9800 at anything other than VGA resolutions.

 

I do not understand your answer. When you say I might as well buy a vga monitor I get confused. The D9800 is a vga monitor. What 27" monitor do you suggest with your card?

[deadsoulz]

Using a W-G D9800 at VGA-only resolutions is a huge waste because these monitors are designed (expensively) to be able to run at standard resolution (15Khz) and 25 and 31 Khz (VGA) as well. So you might as well buy a VGA monitor if you are not using the D9800 at anything other than VGA resolutions.

 

I do not understand your answer. When you say I might as well buy a vga monitor I get confused. The D9800 is a vga monitor. What 27" monitor do you suggest with your card?

I just got mine a week or two ago as well    Wish some warning would have been out of one coming out and to wait. 

[Havok]

Using a W-G D9800 at VGA-only resolutions is a huge waste because these monitors are designed (expensively) to be able to run at standard resolution (15Khz) and 25 and 31 Khz (VGA) as well. So you might as well buy a VGA monitor if you are not using the D9800 at anything other than VGA resolutions.

 

I do not understand your answer. When you say I might as well buy a vga monitor I get confused. The D9800 is a vga monitor. What 27" monitor do you suggest with your card?

Computer VGA monitors typically don't go lower than 60Hz refresh, which isn't low enough for true arcade monitors, which are typically 15 or 25 or 31Hz.

What he is saying is that if you are only going to run at Windows resolutions with higher refresh rates,  save your money and buy a cheaper monitor or tv. The main reason to get a D9800 is to run at the same resolution and refresh rate of an arcade monitor from the good old days. Yes, it will run windows resolutions (lower ones at least), that's not the main reason to use one.

And to address your other question about cards from local stores; no - most if not all of the cards will not run (natively) a refresh rate lower than 60Hz, which kind of defeats the purpose of again having a D9800

[AndyWarne]

Just to correct above:

Its not the vertical refresh rate of 60Hz thats the issue. Its horizontal refresh which on a VGA picture is 31Khz but standard resolution arcade monitor is 15Khz.

The D9800, or equivalent multi-frequency monitor is the perfect monitor for use with the ArcadeVGA card.

[UberCade]

The D9800, or equivalent multi-frequency monitor is the perfect monitor for use with the ArcadeVGA card.

Yeah basically the issue is if you're going to spend the money on a D9800 or other tri-sync arcade monitor, you will only be wasting your money if you don't have the proper hardware to support native arcade resolutions and refresh rates. In other words, if you use a standard graphics card with a D9800, you will only be able to output a 31 KHz 640x480 resolution (or 800x600, not sure what the D9800 supports) and all arcade games that were designed to run at 15 KHz or 25 KHz at lower resolutions will not look as good as if you were outputting a true 15 KHz or 25 KHz signal. What he's saying is if you're going to buy a standard graphics card, don't bother spending the money on an arcade monitor because the extended features of it will be wasted unless you use an ArcadeVGA card which CAN output 15 Khz and 25 KHz signals, as well as the 31 KHz mode the standard Windows desktop uses. It's plug-n-play simplicity and will make the most of an arcade monitor, and the price is VERY reasonable for what you get. I'd still buy it if it cost twice as much.

Also you're overlooking one very important fact regarding emulation, MAME in particular. A high-end video card will do NOTHING to improve MAME emulation, because MAME games are emulated completely by the CPU - game hardware, video, audio, controls and all. The only reason you would want to use a high-end graphics card is if you also wanted to play PC games, in which case you wouldn't want an arcade monitor for that anyway because of its limited resolution support. Bottom line, if you're going to buy an arcade monitor, buy an ArcadeVGA.

[FrizzleFried]

Well Andy,

If you do come out with XP x64 support I'll buy one... if not,  I won't...

[joeH]

I still don't understand what the obsession is about hanging onto a 9 year old OS...

XP was great for it's time...but XP64 was so horribly under-supported. 

I thought Vista was a step up (used since beta), and never had one issue with it.  I really think it received a lot of bad press for nothing.  I've been using 7 since beta as well and found it to be absolutely fantastic to work with. 

Good to hear about the new card.  My MAME machine is still a 2.4 P4, with the original AGP card.  Whenever I replace my desktop, the C2D 8400 will take it's spot, and I'll need a new PCI-x card to go with it. 

Keep up the good work!

[UberCade]

Whenever I replace my desktop, the C2D 8400 will take it's spot, and I'll need a new PCI-x card to go with it. 

Hmm.. I didn't know anybody ever made a PCI-X graphics card.  I do know of hardware RAID expansion cards and other server implementations which make use of a 64-bit PCI-X slot, but never a graphics card. You made a classic error in confusing PCI-X with PCI-Express, which are two very different technologies. A semantic error I'm sure, but I just had to point that out because it can cause some confusion.

I also don't see much benefit of using XP 64-bit for a MAME build, except for the option to use more than 3 GB of RAM, in which case I don't think it would make much if any difference in how well MAME runs. I think for most instances XP 32-bit is perfect for a MAME only PC, because Vista really is a buggy, bloated pig of an OS, and XP (especially an nLite build) has a much smaller footprint and is much more stable than Vista. I use Windows 7 on my main PC and I love it, but it's entirely too much for a MAME only PC. XP 32-bit can do everything I will ever want my MAME cabinet to do and can run all the software I'll ever use on it. The only reason I can think of for using Windows 7 on a MAME PC is if it's also a multi-purpose PC. Other than that, XP is where' it's at.

[joeH]

Good catch.  Yes, I meant PCIe (or PCI express).  I was in a hurry and had a typo. 

I believe from reading the old Taz-nz thread, that the 64-bit optimized versions of Mame had generally higher FPS than compared with the 32-bit versions.  I think that is why some people are were asking for an XP x64 build.

[Havok]

The 64bit Mame versions performance blows away 32bit on the same hardware, hence the desire to run XP64. Even though I love my Win 7 machine, it's still the case that the newer O/S requires more horsepower than XP, that's why you still see people using  XP. Although, in Frizz's case he's got a pretty beefy system, so going to Win 7 wouldn't be that much of an issue. Unless of course, you actually pay for your Windows install...
 

[DeLuSioNal29]

Perhaps I overlooked it, but does anyone know how much RAM the AVGA 3000 has on board?

Also, here's a link to the issues people were having with the SF4 and the older AVGA2 cards.  Kudos to Andy for the upgrade!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=93345.msg989249#msg989249

DeLuSioNaL29

[AndyWarne]

Perhaps I overlooked it, but does anyone know how much RAM the AVGA 3000 has on board?

You didnt overlook it as I forgot to mention it on the website! Its 512 Mb.

Andy

[Jefferson]

Wooo! I remember wrestling with it til I saw Delusionals thread and let SF4 go. I was going to buy an AVGA in the next week or 2 for my TMNT4P> MAME!

Let the scope creep continue!

[Jefferson]

Will SF4 be inhibited at all by my 25-27" WG7100 standard res monitor? how bad we talkin?

Has anyone run SF4 on a non-HD-or-LCD, traditional arcade monitor?

[Bender]

one more vote for XP64 support Andy

[FrizzleFried]

For those not in the know...

Going from Windows XP 32-bit to Windows XP 64-bit running a 64 bit compile of MAME saw a gain of approximately 20% in framerate .... basically making Blitz, Gauntlet Legends,  etc... actually playable rather than non-playable.

I have a single PM running Windows XP x64,  and that is my horizontal MAME cab... that is all it does... plays MAME... I don't care about compatibility issues as long as it works for MAME.... because that is it's sole job.  MAME.

[UberCade]

Interesting. I had no idea MAME64 made that much of a difference. I was planning on using XP 32-bit but maybe I'll have to reconsider now. I'm building a pretty decent MAME PC for my cabinet and it will be able to run Windows 7 well enough, so maybe I'll do that instead. That is, of course, unless we get an XP 64-bit driver. I use XP 64-bit on my file and FTP (yes I still use FTP  ) server at home and I love it. It definitely has its place among some users. You can always slim Windows 7 down too, by choosing not to use aero, and I think vLite will work on a Windows 7 installation to remove any excess crap you won't need.

By the way, I received the ArcadeVGA cards I ordered today so thanks for the fast shipping Andy! Took only a few days to get from the UK to the west coast here in the US.

[Epyx]

Anyone have one of these yet that can post some ST IV benchmarks? I trust Andy (having purchased a lot from him)  but want to ensure I do my due diligence before plunking down my coin on the new AVGA 3000.

The research I have done is that the RV630 is just an ATI HD2600 from 2007. Every benchmark I have seen with this card shows pretty poor performance in ST IV.  Was there another model made?  What am I missing?

[ahofle]

Andy, is there any possibility of adding some more multisync resolutions? 
With Soft15khz, I have been able to add some useful ~300 line modes which work great for newer vertical shooters.  Also a 1024x768 mode (interlaced 25khz) works very well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79547.msg830538#msg830538

[Lilwolf]

I'm guessing it runs at 640x480 (or 640x280 if possible at 15khz) on the card.  But you shouldn't expect much at higher resolutions.  But guessing.

Anyone have one of these yet that can post some ST IV benchmarks? I trust Andy (having purchased a lot from him)  but want to ensure I do my due diligence before plunking down my coin on the new AVGA 3000.

The research I have done is that the RV630 is just an ATI HD2600 from 2007. Every benchmark I have seen with this card shows pretty poor performance in ST IV.  Was there another model made?  What am I missing?

[redhorse]

Drivers for Windows 7 32 and 64 , Vista 32 , 64 and XP included.
 

Is there also driver support for Win7 64 for the old PCIe version of the ArcadeVGA card?
I plan to switch my cab to Win7 64 because of the improved performance with mame64.

[FrizzleFried]

Any news on XP x64 support?

[Epyx]

@Lilwolf

I think you are right. Looking at Martijn's thread I thought I remember him saying he had a 4670 running STIV which is a more powerful card and he got:

i upgraded only the videocard to a Ati Radeon 4670 passive videocard

all the old mame games still work great with soft15khz

i got streetfighter IV running in 800x600 8x AA and get 55fps average

So 640x480 (the benchmark res Andy is using in the SS I got) at 60fps is fine and I would wager even 800x600 with no AA/AF should hit near max fps as well.

[dgame]

Who has the ArcadeVGA 3000 in stock? I want to get one. Thanks.

[Epyx]

Anyone purchased one of these yet? Feedback?

Thanks!

[Ortizimo]

Well? Is there a XP 64bit driver or not? I understand is an old O/S but since all hardware required is for a one sole purpose I dont see the need to upgrade to W7 unless there's a significant gain in frame rate, processing, etc...

Dont want to have to re install everything again. Please reply with a link if anyone has one...I'll still be looking around. Thnx!

[Epyx]

I believe I had read that there is no XP 64 bit driver but there is a Vista/7 one.

[dgame]

Anyone purchased one of these yet? Feedback?

Thanks!

I bought one. It is a nice video card like the others. This one can do basic 3D stuff so you can actually play SF4 albeit with the game settings turned down.
The previous ArcadeVGA cards don't have much in the way of 3D capabilities. Not really a big deal for a dedicated MAME setup, but helps with modern 3D titles.

[Epyx]

This one can do basic 3D stuff so you can actually play SF4 albeit with the game settings turned down.

It is advertised as being able to play with all options cranked at 60fps...the screenshot I was sent showing 60fps had it running at 640x480...does it live up to this claim?

[dgame]

My CPU is an i5 750 running 3.6Ghz (180x20).

With anti-alias turned off at 640x480 the ArcadeVGA3000 scored an "A" on the SF4 benchmark. I don't remember the exact frame rate.
Turning on anti-alias diminishes the frame rate.

I don't have the card installed right now. I will note the settings and corresponding SF4 benchmark performance after I put it back in.

[Epyx]

Thanks. It is advertised as

GUARANTEED TO RUN SF4 AT 60FPS WITH FULL DETAIL SETTINGS

so just curious as your

experience seems to counter this somewhat.  Again, I love Ultimarc products but would like to be certain as for me full detail includes AF/AA...

[Space Fractal]

FrizzleFried, use today's OS and not a yesterdays OS...

XP32 is still much more popular while XP64 is too tiny and to few costumers to use that. So I don't think there the time used investigate that could hold.

Use Windows 7 instead, its a very sleek OS.

[manman]

FrizzleFried, use today's OS and not a yesterdays OS...

XP32 is still much more popular while XP64 is too tiny and to few costumers to use that. So I don't think there the time used investigate that could hold.

Use Windows 7 instead, its a very sleek OS.

meh, if it works for what you need it to do, I don't see how the age matters that much.  Newer also has the potential for more unresolved/undiscovered issues than an OS that's been put through it's paces.  For me personally, I know xp inside and out, it does everything I need it to do well, and I already own it- so I haven't found any compelling reason to move on.  You also could have made that "use today's OS" argument about vista lol...there's a reason they got on windows 7 so quick.  I was working at MS when vista was coming out, I don't remember any of the developers even liking it : /

On topic-
I've had a mixed experience with the avga3000 so far.  There seems to be some sort of incompatibility with it and my blast city monitor (nanao ms-2930 chassis), which causes 640x480 direct from the card to the monitor via vga to not work well.  640x480 through the j-pac is ok but very soft.  The only thing that works great is 15kHz via the j-pac. 

[dgame]

I finally put the ArcadeVGA3000 back in.

I ran a few SF4 benchmarks and confirmed that using any anti-alias (AA) dramatically reduces performance. The i5 750 is over clocked to 3.6GHz.
Without AA the benchmark runs smooth at 640x480. Using any AA results in a D score.

Street Fighter IV Benchmark Results:

SCORE: 10361 [A]
AVERAGE: 60.44FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz No Anti-Alias (AA)

SCORE: 6227 [D]
AVERAGE: 36.69FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz 4xAA

SCORE: 5805 [D]
AVERAGE: 33.26FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz 8xAA



Comments:
The SF4 benchmark would not run full screen at 15 kHz so I had to use the DVI port and my LCD. I didn’t really press the [likely software] issue as I decided against SF4 on my 15 kHz classic gaming setup.

The ArcadeVGA3000 has the 400x256 resolution. Previous versions had the 401x256 resolution. This means that you have to update the INI files for those games.

The low-res modes look softer on my LCD than previous versions of the ArcadeVGA. Previous versions of the ArcadeVGA with the DVI/VGA port low-res looked crisp and blocky on the LCD.

On the Arcade monitor the low-res modes look the same as previous versions of the ArcadeVGA.

[Epyx]

@dgame

Thanks very much for posting these results!

I think it is safe to say based on this that the ArcadeVGA3000 is only capable of  SF:IV at 60fps with AA turned off and then only at 640x480?

Question...how did 800x600 do?  Also, did you crank everything else other than AA to max?

[codeena]

Hey everyone,

I just replaced my NVidia 7300 with the ArcadeVGA 3000 and I've already noticed some issues that I haven't had with the NVidia card, like House of the Dead III doesn't work and Big Buck Hunter is noticably slower than before. Do you happen to have either of these games, or have games that don't work w/the AVGA 3000? I believe that I have downloaded the latest drivers for the AVGA 3000.

Also, do you happen to know if we can update w/the latest ATI drivers for the card, or do we have to use the AVGA 3000 drivers only?

BTW, some of my pc's specs are: Intel Duo Core 2.5, 2GB RAM, Windows 7

Thanks in advance!

[ryantheleach]

I still don't understand what the obsession is about hanging onto a 9 year old OS...

XP was great for it's time...but XP64 was so horribly under-supported. 

I thought Vista was a step up (used since beta), and never had one issue with it.  I really think it received a lot of bad press for nothing.  I've been using 7 since beta as well and found it to be absolutely fantastic to work with. 

Good to hear about the new card.  My MAME machine is still a 2.4 P4, with the original AGP card.  Whenever I replace my desktop, the C2D 8400 will take it's spot, and I'll need a new PCI-x card to go with it. 

Keep up the good work!

Vista copped a LOT of bad rep, because on the hardware available at the time, when it was released, ran like a pig, due to the amount of ram and cpu that was used solely for the OS.
also because it was rushed out, without hardware developers and software developers not given enough time, so it ran slow, and half the stuff you wanted it to do, simply wouldnt happen.

mind you, once faster hardware/better support came out i swapped to vista, and then again to 7, (i noticed a significant performance increase when i loaded 7 on).

[kronic24601]

Hey everyone,

I just replaced my NVidia 7300 with the ArcadeVGA 3000 and I've already noticed some issues that I haven't had with the NVidia card, like House of the Dead III doesn't work and Big Buck Hunter is noticably slower than before. Do you happen to have either of these games, or have games that don't work w/the AVGA 3000? I believe that I have downloaded the latest drivers for the AVGA 3000.

Also, do you happen to know if we can update w/the latest ATI drivers for the card, or do we have to use the AVGA 3000 drivers only?

BTW, some of my pc's specs are: Intel Duo Core 2.5, 2GB RAM, Windows 7

Thanks in advance!

Are you referring to PC games? (hod3 & BBH) I have HOD3 at home and can try it out at some point (probably not till Friday). I do know the MAME version of HOD3 doesn't work really, so if that's what you're trying it's not the AVGA 3000.

[codeena]

Hi kronic24601,

Yes, both games are PC titles. What's strange is that my older PC w/the AVGA2 AGP ran Big Buck Hunter better than my newer PC w/the AVGA3000.

As for HOD3, I will try adjusting the graphic settings within the game tonight. I believe that the error said something about "HAL" (I think it's a D3D-related thingy). Thanks a lot for testing your HOD3 on your PC.

[codeena]

Well, I got HOD3 to work after disabling some graphic options. Unfortunately, BBH still lags.

[Ortizimo]

I understand that XP 64 is old but why upgrade when the OS is only used for the cab only purpose and nothing else. I was obligated to upgrade to W7 and I hate it. My jukebox acts weird and my audio software is messed up. I had everything with XP64 and would want to have a driver for it just like many other here.

Hope Andy can hear the cries for help and help us folks who want to continue using XP 64 in our cabs.

[kronic24601]

I don't think it is something that Andy can just "support". He is just modifying stock cards to fit the needs of the community. And in reality ALL hardware gets outdated and unsupported over time.

I upgraded to Win7 64 and things have been pretty good so far. Biggest problem are the difficulty to change Mouse polling rate and get a fully "shelled" bootup. Otherwise everything is good. When more of the XP peps make the switch then these things may get "fixed" faster.

Considering the fact that you would ONLY want this card (3000 version) if you wanted to play the most current PC games, that means that you aren't just a standard MAMER playing Pacman and such... Andy has (at least for now) the non-3000 version that should fit those peoples needs.

My 2 Cents

[duncanator]

Forgive me for this basic question but if I am just going to use a 19" 4:3 LCD as my monitor for MAME, is this card worth it? Will it work well with the LCD? I want the games to look as authentic as they can, even though it will not be used with an arcade monitor. 

I know many will say to get a new arcade monitor, but the reason why I am using an LCD is because I am hesitant to make too many modifications to my original Tempest cabinet.  Mounting the LCD will not require that much work and won't generate the heat that a CRT monitor would produce.  Also, I already have the monitor lying around.  The original game is still fully functional and in perfect condition so I don't want to tear it apart or alter it too much. Thoughts?

[southpaw13]

It will work.  It will be too clear, so maybe some effect filters will look good.

[kronic24601]

I have the ArcadeVGA 3000, and I currently have it hooked up to a LCD monitor ... I cannot tell any difference between this and my previous card for this monitor. The ONLY reason I purchased this is because I also bought an arcade monitor (just don't have it hooked up yet). So, if you ever plan on upgrading, it might be something you should consider. However, if you plan on using an LCD, I don't really think you will get enough benefits to justify the cost. However, perhaps I am missing something obvious while I have been using it.

[AndyWarne]

Regarding the SF IV benchmarks. The default settings are AntiAlias off. The question I have is, is there any noticeable difference between AA off and on?

I have found that it seems impossible to actually turn off AA on the later ATI drivers used on the ArcadeVGA3000, so I believe AA is always on, in hardware.

Another point is that most modern LCDs do aniti-alias in the monitor. This means they are less suitable for the classic games and the difference between a standard VGA card and ArcadeVGA is reduced on a monitor which has AA, as it will attempt to smooth out the blocky graphics of the classic games.

Andy

[AndyWarne]

I did some more checking on the above points.

If you compare the ArcadeVGA3000 with the older version, using an LCD monitor, the Windows desktop is anti-aliased on the new card but not on the old.
But, contrary to what I said above, Mame is absolutely fine. Its not anti-aliased which means classic games are pixel-sharp just as on the older card.

If using an ArcadeVGA card on an LCD and it looks the same as a normal card when running classics (Pacman etc) then something is not configured properly, possibly hardware stretch is not disabled.

Now to SF4: Its generally accepted that PC games look better with anti-alias on. Certainly games whith a lot of geometric patterning such as blocky type backgrounds do. But I can see very little difference in SF4, and in fact prefer without AA (the default setting) as it seems slightly sharper, but accept its a matter of preference.

[BlazzingFlippers]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available.  Parallel rendering I found had no impact on or off so I left it on.  AA even at 2x kills the frame rate to unplayable levels.  If I change the model detail from high to mid, (this option seems to have the most impact on FPS) 60 FPS is achieved no problem but of course the characters don't look as nice.  I'm a bit disappointed with the card's SFIV performance but I didn't buy it for SFIV so its not that big of a deal for me. 

[BlazzingFlippers]

BTW, some of you are talking about running SFIV in 640x480.  That option is not available to me.  The lowest I can select under options in game is 720x480.  Weird.

I'd love to be able to run it at 640x480 as that will improve the FPS I'm sure.  Anyone know why it wouldn't be selectable?

[Ortizimo]

Dear Andy,
Do you know if now there will be support for WinXP 64 since MS will support XP until 2020?

[Epyx]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available

Thanks...exactly the feedback I was looking for. Glad to see the advert line of "full frame rates with all options turned on" removed.

[redhorse]

I don't think it is some
I upgraded to Win7 64 and things have been pretty good so far. Biggest problem are the difficulty to change Mouse polling rate and get a fully "shelled" bootup. Otherwise everything is good. When more of the XP peps make the switch then these things may get "fixed" faster.

I'm planning to switch to Win7 64bit with the old PCIe version of the ArcadeVGA. Are you also using this version and if yes, did you face any driver problems?

[AndyWarne]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available

Thanks...exactly the feedback I was looking for. Glad to see the advert line of "full frame rates with all options turned on" removed.

This is strange, because I can get 60 FPS with the default settings, at arcade resolutions (800 x 600 and below) so not sure what the difference is. Maybe you are running a higher res?

[kronic24601]

I'm planning to switch to Win7 64bit with the old PCIe version of the ArcadeVGA. Are you also using this version and if yes, did you face any driver problems?

I'm using ArcadeVGA 3000, so I couldn't comment on the older versions.

[runninblue]

Sorry if already mentioned but I don't have time to read the whole thread (it's 3am!).

I'm looking to buy a v card for my cab. Is it worth getting an arcadevga 3000 if I'm using an LCD monitor or is it a waste of time?

Thanks in advance guys.

[AndyWarne]

The benefit of running native resolutions on a PC monitor is not as dramatic as on an arcade monitor. There is pretty much no benefit on later "pictorial" type games, but with classics such as Pacman, the graphics are crisper and accurate as no stretching is being done.

It depends really, on how much of a purist you want to be and preference in types of games.

Andy

[runninblue]

The benefit of running native resolutions on a PC monitor is not as dramatic as on an arcade monitor. There is pretty much no benefit on later "pictorial" type games, but with classics such as Pacman, the graphics are crisper and accurate as no stretching is being done.

It depends really, on how much of a purist you want to be and preference in types of games.

Andy

Cool. Thanks for the info Andy.

[Aithos]

blah blah blah

[gatordad]

Why are people paying money for an outdated video card with some non-authentic drivers that have custom resolutions punched in?  I guess it must
be a convenience thing since people are lazy and don't want to figure out all the resolutions, refresh rates, color depths, etc.  I think I'll just do it myself
though and then upgrade to a much better card for the same price if I want to play SFIV.  Hell of a sales tactic though, bravo.

For anyone who hasn't read the whole thread:
1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

Sorry if I rained on the parade, I didn't mean to come off as a troll.  This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

And then he said 

 

 

[Malenko]

Why are people paying money for an outdated video card with some non-authentic drivers that have custom resolutions punched in?  I guess it must
be a convenience thing since people are lazy and don't want to figure out all the resolutions, refresh rates, color depths, etc.  I think I'll just do it myself
though and then upgrade to a much better card for the same price if I want to play SFIV.  Hell of a sales tactic though, bravo.

For anyone who hasn't read the whole thread:
1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

Sorry if I rained on the parade, I didn't mean to come off as a troll.  This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

And you are both a newb and a troll. Andy has ALWAYS said it was an ATI card. You OBVIOUSLY didnt go to his website, look at this page, and tell me what you see: http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

prolly this: (as long as andy allows hot linking images):

whats that logo? its so small cause he's hiding it.  

He's selling the card and the driver set modified for that card. What he sells is fantastic for what it does AND he supports everything he sells. His sales "tactic" is to provide what people need. Not everyone wants to go through the trouble of  editing resolutions and refresh rates and not everyone is tech savvy enough to try. I personally dont use an ArcadeVGA ( I use an nVidia card and soft15) but I always use IPACs and soon an AIMtrac. I think for my next project I will use an arcadeVGA, just to spite you.

You arent off to a good start here.

[ahofle]

1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

You should read up some more before commenting.  It's more than a card with a special driver.  The bios on the card is also tweaked to filter out >15khz signals (eg. POST screens, pre-driver loading) to avoid damage to arcade monitors. 

[BobA]

. This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

Too bad you don't know diddly about what you are commenting on.   If Andy is taking advantage of people then he sure as heck fooled me.  If it was not for him and people like him then we would not have any of the parts and pieces we have grown to need and love.

[Aithos]

edit:  This isn't even worth responding to.  I worded my post poorly and I apologize for that, but none of you actually read what I said either.  I'll take english language for 1000 Alex.

[Osirus23]

edit:  This isn't even worth responding to.  I worded my post poorly and I apologize for that, but none of you actually read what I said either.  I'll take english language for 1000 Alex.

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

[Aithos]

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

I'd like to point out I never called anyone stupid, never insulted anyone in any of my posts.  I never called Andy a fraud, I have apologized several times for the poor choice of wording on my posts.  For about the 4th time:  I don't have a problem with the product, with the price, with the functionality or the people who buy them.  I have a problem with the fact it is called the ArcadeVGA 3000, it shouldn't be called that.  Period.  It isn't an ArcadeVGA 3000, it is an ATI Radeon 2600 with some small modification and custom drivers.  The whole point I was trying to make is that the wording should really be changed.  If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  The fact that they are unaware or don't care doesn't make it right.  I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

[AndyWarne]

If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  The fact that they are unaware or don't care doesn't make it right.  I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

Oh you are sooo wrong.
The ArcadeVGA card has different hardware (although not that different) to allow the pixel clock to go down to the value needed for 240 x 240. It also has a custom BIOS which involved masses of development effort as it has two entirely different sets of video modelines, one set for a PC monitor and one for Arcade monitor.
Now here is the crux of the matter: The ArcadeVGA is FULLY SUPPORTED BY ATI as a custom card. On earlier versions I produced the custom BIOS myself using source code supplied by ATI. On the current version, the BIOS is actually supplied by ATI. It is compiled by them using base code which was jointly developed by myself and ATI.
You might be interested to know I have fixed bugs in ATIs BIOS for them, which have been implemented in their standard BIOS code.
I presume you are not going to believe this so PM me and I will send evidence if you want to see. I can send you some snippets of BIOS source code and also correspondence with ATI, but of course I cant send the whole code as I signed all manner of Non Disclosure Agreements with ATI.
I also have many of ATIs internal software tools, all supplied under NDA, and the hardware reference designs from which the card is custom manufactured for us.

The fact is, the ArcadeVGA card has required masses of development time and also consumes huge amounts of support time, and I also support drivers for 4 OSes.

I have many times thought about dropping the product as it is only marginally commercially viable. The only reason its still there is I am prepared to answer support emails at all hours of the evening and not allocate this time as a cost.

I might as well state now that I think the ArcadeVGA has a limited future as once the existing ATI chipsets go end of life I dont think it will be viable to re-develop everything on future chipsets.

Also, what is wrong with the name ArcadeVGA 3000? On our site we even specify the ATI chip which is used so we are not trying to mislead or hide anything.

[Malenko]

I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

I think youre wrong. Ever heard of RUF?  its the best analogy to what Andy does that I can think of. He cant resell the card as an ATI Radeon 2600 because its not just a Radeon 2600, it modified into an ArcadeVGA3000


Crucifiction and correction arent the same thing. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it seems to be based on what you think is fact and what actually is fact

[saint]

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

I have a problem with the fact it is called the ArcadeVGA 3000, it shouldn't be called that.  Period.  It isn't an ArcadeVGA 3000, it is an ATI Radeon 2600 with some small modification and custom drivers.  The whole point I was trying to make is that the wording should really be changed.  If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  

I'm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161336
HIS videocard with ATI chipset

not
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131373
Powercolor videocard with ATI chipset

sure
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125326
Gigabyte videocard with ATI chipset

where
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131361
Powercolor videocard with ATI chipset

you're
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150390
XFX videocard with ATI chipset

coming from.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129144
VisionTEK videocard with ATI chipset

...............

You're complaining about an industry standard practice done by a vendor who in no way, shape, or form attempted to disguise the nature of his product or who the chipset manufacturer is.




From the website

http://ultimarc.com/avgafaq.html

    *  What are the differences between this card and a normal VGA card?

All VGA cards contain a number of in-built video modes, that applications can detect and switch to. The problem with normal cards is that all of these modes are useless on a 15Khz monitor because they all send a 31Khz horizontal scan rate signal. Even if they could be used, they are not tailored to gaming because most of them are a too-high resolution. When used with an arcade monitor the ArcadeVGA card discards all of these modes and replaces them with an enlarged set of 30 built-in modes, all of which send 15Khz and all are tailored to gaming. The mode timings are held in flash ROM on the card. The pixel clock circuitry is different to allow for a lower value of clock, needed for lower horizontal scan rates. With a PC monitor all of these modes are also available but they scan at 31Khz. In addition, on a PC monitor conventional Windows modes are available.

(emphasis mine)

Objection to your post isn't that you have an issue with the technology. We love those kinds of discussions here. The objection to your post is you essentially called the vendor a fraud. The strong backlash you're getting is because of all the vendors you might ever encounter anywhere, this vendor specifically is the least likely to ever be attempting to defraud his customers. There are other great vendors in this hobby and elsewhere, but there are no vendors I have ever come across with a better customer service/support attitude than this one. Regardless of whether or not you like the technology, and yes there are other alternatives one might choose, accusing the vendor of deceit (whether you stated it outright or by implication, since you've edited the first post I don't recall now) was unquestionably off-base.

I wouldn't stress about it though, today's drama is tomorrow's "what were we talking about?" -- welcome to the forums, looking forward to seeing what you come up with

--- saint

[FrizzleFried]

 

 

PS:  Saint's right about not stressing about this... I'm quite sure I've been there... more than once likely.

[saint]

PS:  Saint's right about not stressing about this... I'm quite sure I've been there... more than once likely.

Pretty sure you were the poster child

[Aithos]

Well I didn't call him a fraud, and I have already apologized several times for the way I worded my post.  But after reading Andy's post I guess I was
grossly mistaken about the creation and endorsement of these cards.  I have no real way of verifying what he said, but I'll just take him at his word.
If these are co-developed with ATI with their full support and their own tools, then I have absolutely no problem with it being called what it is. 

So to be 100% clear:  I apologize.  Both to Andy and everyone who has posted here.  I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong and in this case I was
definitely wrong.  However, the one thing I will say is that if everything Andy said in his post is true, then all that should be on his page somewhere, you
should be proud to have worked alongside ATI to develop a product for this market.  I would never have made my initial post in this thread had I known
and there was no way I could have known, yes I made assumptions but I had nothing to tell me otherwise. 

Thank you to the couple people who have had nice things to say, I'm looking forward to just putting this behind me and hopefully the next time I open my mouth
it will be to share something worthwhile or help someone out instead of to say something hurtful.  I won't make excuses for what I said, it doesn't matter what
is going on in my life, I was wrong, plain and simple.  So once again, I'm sorry guys.

[saint]

 

[ahofle]

another 

Pretty rare for someone to be man enough to apologize like that, especially on the innerwebs.

[AndyWarne]

Apology fully accepted, thanks..

Andy

[gatordad]

Well I didn't call him a fraud, and I have already apologized several times for the way I worded my post.  But after reading Andy's post I guess I was
grossly mistaken about the creation and endorsement of these cards.  I have no real way of verifying what he said, but I'll just take him at his word.
If these are co-developed with ATI with their full support and their own tools, then I have absolutely no problem with it being called what it is. 

So to be 100% clear:  I apologize.  Both to Andy and everyone who has posted here.  I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong and in this case I was
definitely wrong.  However, the one thing I will say is that if everything Andy said in his post is true, then all that should be on his page somewhere, you
should be proud to have worked alongside ATI to develop a product for this market.  I would never have made my initial post in this thread had I known
and there was no way I could have known, yes I made assumptions but I had nothing to tell me otherwise. 

Thank you to the couple people who have had nice things to say, I'm looking forward to just putting this behind me and hopefully the next time I open my mouth
it will be to share something worthwhile or help someone out instead of to say something hurtful.  I won't make excuses for what I said, it doesn't matter what
is going on in my life, I was wrong, plain and simple.  So once again, I'm sorry guys.

Bravo! man, I take back the blah, blah blah stuff, I'm sorry too.
If you want to build a cab or some cool controls or even fix and old game up, this is one of the best and most helpful websites around
Tons of good reading and some very innovate builds, designs, and products/mods around. Really cool website and it runs pretty well, Thanks Saint!
Ask away, some of these guys are really good.
GD

[Aithos]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.  I know I got off to a rough start here but I've really enjoyed what I've read these last several months.  I know I've learned a ton just by browsing the site and it has really helped me make some decisions on the direction I want to go with my first project.  I'm going to be ordering a lot of stuff here in the next two months so I'm sure I'll need your help once it comes time to get the show on the road so to speak.  I'm going to go modify my project post since I've made some pretty big changes to what I want to do.  I'm still looking forward to this

[lodoss118]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

[Malenko]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

cost vs worth? Also MAME doesnt use much GPU power.

[gazz292]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

i don't think games that would need a high power graphix card would look that good on a 15hz monitor personaly,

i may be wrong of course, but i bought my arcadevga 3000 to run old arcade games on my cabs monitor how they did on the real machines,

of course, things are changing in the arcade games world, a few games run at vga resolutions i believe, and i can guess more will do so, but it'll be a fair few years yet till we can play them on mame, what with the rekoning you need double the cpu power to emulate... so when 8 or 10 gig, hundered core super doopa hyper megga threading cpu's are common.... and anyway, they will be played on a 50 inch lcd/projector screen to be accurate