New Version ArcadeVGA 3000

[Epyx]

@Lilwolf

I think you are right. Looking at Martijn's thread I thought I remember him saying he had a 4670 running STIV which is a more powerful card and he got:

i upgraded only the videocard to a Ati Radeon 4670 passive videocard

all the old mame games still work great with soft15khz

i got streetfighter IV running in 800x600 8x AA and get 55fps average

So 640x480 (the benchmark res Andy is using in the SS I got) at 60fps is fine and I would wager even 800x600 with no AA/AF should hit near max fps as well.

[dgame]

Who has the ArcadeVGA 3000 in stock? I want to get one. Thanks.

[Epyx]

Anyone purchased one of these yet? Feedback?

Thanks!

[Ortizimo]

Well? Is there a XP 64bit driver or not? I understand is an old O/S but since all hardware required is for a one sole purpose I dont see the need to upgrade to W7 unless there's a significant gain in frame rate, processing, etc...

Dont want to have to re install everything again. Please reply with a link if anyone has one...I'll still be looking around. Thnx!

[Epyx]

I believe I had read that there is no XP 64 bit driver but there is a Vista/7 one.

[dgame]

Anyone purchased one of these yet? Feedback?

Thanks!

I bought one. It is a nice video card like the others. This one can do basic 3D stuff so you can actually play SF4 albeit with the game settings turned down.
The previous ArcadeVGA cards don't have much in the way of 3D capabilities. Not really a big deal for a dedicated MAME setup, but helps with modern 3D titles.

[Epyx]

This one can do basic 3D stuff so you can actually play SF4 albeit with the game settings turned down.

It is advertised as being able to play with all options cranked at 60fps...the screenshot I was sent showing 60fps had it running at 640x480...does it live up to this claim?

[dgame]

My CPU is an i5 750 running 3.6Ghz (180x20).

With anti-alias turned off at 640x480 the ArcadeVGA3000 scored an "A" on the SF4 benchmark. I don't remember the exact frame rate.
Turning on anti-alias diminishes the frame rate.

I don't have the card installed right now. I will note the settings and corresponding SF4 benchmark performance after I put it back in.

[Epyx]

Thanks. It is advertised as

GUARANTEED TO RUN SF4 AT 60FPS WITH FULL DETAIL SETTINGS

so just curious as your

experience seems to counter this somewhat.  Again, I love Ultimarc products but would like to be certain as for me full detail includes AF/AA...

[Space Fractal]

FrizzleFried, use today's OS and not a yesterdays OS...

XP32 is still much more popular while XP64 is too tiny and to few costumers to use that. So I don't think there the time used investigate that could hold.

Use Windows 7 instead, its a very sleek OS.

[manman]

FrizzleFried, use today's OS and not a yesterdays OS...

XP32 is still much more popular while XP64 is too tiny and to few costumers to use that. So I don't think there the time used investigate that could hold.

Use Windows 7 instead, its a very sleek OS.

meh, if it works for what you need it to do, I don't see how the age matters that much.  Newer also has the potential for more unresolved/undiscovered issues than an OS that's been put through it's paces.  For me personally, I know xp inside and out, it does everything I need it to do well, and I already own it- so I haven't found any compelling reason to move on.  You also could have made that "use today's OS" argument about vista lol...there's a reason they got on windows 7 so quick.  I was working at MS when vista was coming out, I don't remember any of the developers even liking it : /

On topic-
I've had a mixed experience with the avga3000 so far.  There seems to be some sort of incompatibility with it and my blast city monitor (nanao ms-2930 chassis), which causes 640x480 direct from the card to the monitor via vga to not work well.  640x480 through the j-pac is ok but very soft.  The only thing that works great is 15kHz via the j-pac. 

[dgame]

I finally put the ArcadeVGA3000 back in.

I ran a few SF4 benchmarks and confirmed that using any anti-alias (AA) dramatically reduces performance. The i5 750 is over clocked to 3.6GHz.
Without AA the benchmark runs smooth at 640x480. Using any AA results in a D score.

Street Fighter IV Benchmark Results:

SCORE: 10361 [A]
AVERAGE: 60.44FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz No Anti-Alias (AA)

SCORE: 6227 [D]
AVERAGE: 36.69FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz 4xAA

SCORE: 5805 [D]
AVERAGE: 33.26FPS
OS: Windows XP Professional
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz [3.6GHz OC]
Memory: 2040MB
Graphics Card: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000
Display Setting: 640x480 60Hz 8xAA



Comments:
The SF4 benchmark would not run full screen at 15 kHz so I had to use the DVI port and my LCD. I didn’t really press the [likely software] issue as I decided against SF4 on my 15 kHz classic gaming setup.

The ArcadeVGA3000 has the 400x256 resolution. Previous versions had the 401x256 resolution. This means that you have to update the INI files for those games.

The low-res modes look softer on my LCD than previous versions of the ArcadeVGA. Previous versions of the ArcadeVGA with the DVI/VGA port low-res looked crisp and blocky on the LCD.

On the Arcade monitor the low-res modes look the same as previous versions of the ArcadeVGA.

[Epyx]

@dgame

Thanks very much for posting these results!

I think it is safe to say based on this that the ArcadeVGA3000 is only capable of  SF:IV at 60fps with AA turned off and then only at 640x480?

Question...how did 800x600 do?  Also, did you crank everything else other than AA to max?

[codeena]

Hey everyone,

I just replaced my NVidia 7300 with the ArcadeVGA 3000 and I've already noticed some issues that I haven't had with the NVidia card, like House of the Dead III doesn't work and Big Buck Hunter is noticably slower than before. Do you happen to have either of these games, or have games that don't work w/the AVGA 3000? I believe that I have downloaded the latest drivers for the AVGA 3000.

Also, do you happen to know if we can update w/the latest ATI drivers for the card, or do we have to use the AVGA 3000 drivers only?

BTW, some of my pc's specs are: Intel Duo Core 2.5, 2GB RAM, Windows 7

Thanks in advance!

[ryantheleach]

I still don't understand what the obsession is about hanging onto a 9 year old OS...

XP was great for it's time...but XP64 was so horribly under-supported. 

I thought Vista was a step up (used since beta), and never had one issue with it.  I really think it received a lot of bad press for nothing.  I've been using 7 since beta as well and found it to be absolutely fantastic to work with. 

Good to hear about the new card.  My MAME machine is still a 2.4 P4, with the original AGP card.  Whenever I replace my desktop, the C2D 8400 will take it's spot, and I'll need a new PCI-x card to go with it. 

Keep up the good work!

Vista copped a LOT of bad rep, because on the hardware available at the time, when it was released, ran like a pig, due to the amount of ram and cpu that was used solely for the OS.
also because it was rushed out, without hardware developers and software developers not given enough time, so it ran slow, and half the stuff you wanted it to do, simply wouldnt happen.

mind you, once faster hardware/better support came out i swapped to vista, and then again to 7, (i noticed a significant performance increase when i loaded 7 on).

[kronic24601]

Hey everyone,

I just replaced my NVidia 7300 with the ArcadeVGA 3000 and I've already noticed some issues that I haven't had with the NVidia card, like House of the Dead III doesn't work and Big Buck Hunter is noticably slower than before. Do you happen to have either of these games, or have games that don't work w/the AVGA 3000? I believe that I have downloaded the latest drivers for the AVGA 3000.

Also, do you happen to know if we can update w/the latest ATI drivers for the card, or do we have to use the AVGA 3000 drivers only?

BTW, some of my pc's specs are: Intel Duo Core 2.5, 2GB RAM, Windows 7

Thanks in advance!

Are you referring to PC games? (hod3 & BBH) I have HOD3 at home and can try it out at some point (probably not till Friday). I do know the MAME version of HOD3 doesn't work really, so if that's what you're trying it's not the AVGA 3000.

[codeena]

Hi kronic24601,

Yes, both games are PC titles. What's strange is that my older PC w/the AVGA2 AGP ran Big Buck Hunter better than my newer PC w/the AVGA3000.

As for HOD3, I will try adjusting the graphic settings within the game tonight. I believe that the error said something about "HAL" (I think it's a D3D-related thingy). Thanks a lot for testing your HOD3 on your PC.

[codeena]

Well, I got HOD3 to work after disabling some graphic options. Unfortunately, BBH still lags.

[Ortizimo]

I understand that XP 64 is old but why upgrade when the OS is only used for the cab only purpose and nothing else. I was obligated to upgrade to W7 and I hate it. My jukebox acts weird and my audio software is messed up. I had everything with XP64 and would want to have a driver for it just like many other here.

Hope Andy can hear the cries for help and help us folks who want to continue using XP 64 in our cabs.

[kronic24601]

I don't think it is something that Andy can just "support". He is just modifying stock cards to fit the needs of the community. And in reality ALL hardware gets outdated and unsupported over time.

I upgraded to Win7 64 and things have been pretty good so far. Biggest problem are the difficulty to change Mouse polling rate and get a fully "shelled" bootup. Otherwise everything is good. When more of the XP peps make the switch then these things may get "fixed" faster.

Considering the fact that you would ONLY want this card (3000 version) if you wanted to play the most current PC games, that means that you aren't just a standard MAMER playing Pacman and such... Andy has (at least for now) the non-3000 version that should fit those peoples needs.

My 2 Cents

[duncanator]

Forgive me for this basic question but if I am just going to use a 19" 4:3 LCD as my monitor for MAME, is this card worth it? Will it work well with the LCD? I want the games to look as authentic as they can, even though it will not be used with an arcade monitor. 

I know many will say to get a new arcade monitor, but the reason why I am using an LCD is because I am hesitant to make too many modifications to my original Tempest cabinet.  Mounting the LCD will not require that much work and won't generate the heat that a CRT monitor would produce.  Also, I already have the monitor lying around.  The original game is still fully functional and in perfect condition so I don't want to tear it apart or alter it too much. Thoughts?

[southpaw13]

It will work.  It will be too clear, so maybe some effect filters will look good.

[kronic24601]

I have the ArcadeVGA 3000, and I currently have it hooked up to a LCD monitor ... I cannot tell any difference between this and my previous card for this monitor. The ONLY reason I purchased this is because I also bought an arcade monitor (just don't have it hooked up yet). So, if you ever plan on upgrading, it might be something you should consider. However, if you plan on using an LCD, I don't really think you will get enough benefits to justify the cost. However, perhaps I am missing something obvious while I have been using it.

[AndyWarne]

Regarding the SF IV benchmarks. The default settings are AntiAlias off. The question I have is, is there any noticeable difference between AA off and on?

I have found that it seems impossible to actually turn off AA on the later ATI drivers used on the ArcadeVGA3000, so I believe AA is always on, in hardware.

Another point is that most modern LCDs do aniti-alias in the monitor. This means they are less suitable for the classic games and the difference between a standard VGA card and ArcadeVGA is reduced on a monitor which has AA, as it will attempt to smooth out the blocky graphics of the classic games.

Andy

[AndyWarne]

I did some more checking on the above points.

If you compare the ArcadeVGA3000 with the older version, using an LCD monitor, the Windows desktop is anti-aliased on the new card but not on the old.
But, contrary to what I said above, Mame is absolutely fine. Its not anti-aliased which means classic games are pixel-sharp just as on the older card.

If using an ArcadeVGA card on an LCD and it looks the same as a normal card when running classics (Pacman etc) then something is not configured properly, possibly hardware stretch is not disabled.

Now to SF4: Its generally accepted that PC games look better with anti-alias on. Certainly games whith a lot of geometric patterning such as blocky type backgrounds do. But I can see very little difference in SF4, and in fact prefer without AA (the default setting) as it seems slightly sharper, but accept its a matter of preference.

[BlazzingFlippers]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available.  Parallel rendering I found had no impact on or off so I left it on.  AA even at 2x kills the frame rate to unplayable levels.  If I change the model detail from high to mid, (this option seems to have the most impact on FPS) 60 FPS is achieved no problem but of course the characters don't look as nice.  I'm a bit disappointed with the card's SFIV performance but I didn't buy it for SFIV so its not that big of a deal for me. 

[BlazzingFlippers]

BTW, some of you are talking about running SFIV in 640x480.  That option is not available to me.  The lowest I can select under options in game is 720x480.  Weird.

I'd love to be able to run it at 640x480 as that will improve the FPS I'm sure.  Anyone know why it wouldn't be selectable?

[Ortizimo]

Dear Andy,
Do you know if now there will be support for WinXP 64 since MS will support XP until 2020?

[Epyx]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available

Thanks...exactly the feedback I was looking for. Glad to see the advert line of "full frame rates with all options turned on" removed.

[redhorse]

I don't think it is some
I upgraded to Win7 64 and things have been pretty good so far. Biggest problem are the difficulty to change Mouse polling rate and get a fully "shelled" bootup. Otherwise everything is good. When more of the XP peps make the switch then these things may get "fixed" faster.

I'm planning to switch to Win7 64bit with the old PCIe version of the ArcadeVGA. Are you also using this version and if yes, did you face any driver problems?

[AndyWarne]

I can share my SFIV experience with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  My MAME cabinet's CPU is a Core2Duo E6700 2.40Ghz.  I ran SFIV in both WinXP and Win7 and the results were the same.  In order for me to achieve smooth 60 FPS, I have to turn every option to low or off if off is available

Thanks...exactly the feedback I was looking for. Glad to see the advert line of "full frame rates with all options turned on" removed.

This is strange, because I can get 60 FPS with the default settings, at arcade resolutions (800 x 600 and below) so not sure what the difference is. Maybe you are running a higher res?

[kronic24601]

I'm planning to switch to Win7 64bit with the old PCIe version of the ArcadeVGA. Are you also using this version and if yes, did you face any driver problems?

I'm using ArcadeVGA 3000, so I couldn't comment on the older versions.

[runninblue]

Sorry if already mentioned but I don't have time to read the whole thread (it's 3am!).

I'm looking to buy a v card for my cab. Is it worth getting an arcadevga 3000 if I'm using an LCD monitor or is it a waste of time?

Thanks in advance guys.

[AndyWarne]

The benefit of running native resolutions on a PC monitor is not as dramatic as on an arcade monitor. There is pretty much no benefit on later "pictorial" type games, but with classics such as Pacman, the graphics are crisper and accurate as no stretching is being done.

It depends really, on how much of a purist you want to be and preference in types of games.

Andy

[runninblue]

The benefit of running native resolutions on a PC monitor is not as dramatic as on an arcade monitor. There is pretty much no benefit on later "pictorial" type games, but with classics such as Pacman, the graphics are crisper and accurate as no stretching is being done.

It depends really, on how much of a purist you want to be and preference in types of games.

Andy

Cool. Thanks for the info Andy.

[Aithos]

blah blah blah

[gatordad]

Why are people paying money for an outdated video card with some non-authentic drivers that have custom resolutions punched in?  I guess it must
be a convenience thing since people are lazy and don't want to figure out all the resolutions, refresh rates, color depths, etc.  I think I'll just do it myself
though and then upgrade to a much better card for the same price if I want to play SFIV.  Hell of a sales tactic though, bravo.

For anyone who hasn't read the whole thread:
1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

Sorry if I rained on the parade, I didn't mean to come off as a troll.  This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

And then he said 

 

 

[Malenko]

Why are people paying money for an outdated video card with some non-authentic drivers that have custom resolutions punched in?  I guess it must
be a convenience thing since people are lazy and don't want to figure out all the resolutions, refresh rates, color depths, etc.  I think I'll just do it myself
though and then upgrade to a much better card for the same price if I want to play SFIV.  Hell of a sales tactic though, bravo.

For anyone who hasn't read the whole thread:
1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

Sorry if I rained on the parade, I didn't mean to come off as a troll.  This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

And you are both a newb and a troll. Andy has ALWAYS said it was an ATI card. You OBVIOUSLY didnt go to his website, look at this page, and tell me what you see: http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

prolly this: (as long as andy allows hot linking images):

whats that logo? its so small cause he's hiding it.  

He's selling the card and the driver set modified for that card. What he sells is fantastic for what it does AND he supports everything he sells. His sales "tactic" is to provide what people need. Not everyone wants to go through the trouble of  editing resolutions and refresh rates and not everyone is tech savvy enough to try. I personally dont use an ArcadeVGA ( I use an nVidia card and soft15) but I always use IPACs and soon an AIMtrac. I think for my next project I will use an arcadeVGA, just to spite you.

You arent off to a good start here.

[ahofle]

1) this does nothing for a TV or PC monitor that your current video card won't do, it won't help you at all.  The custom resolutions are specifically for
arcade monitors capable of running a 15khz signal at odd resolutions that a TV and PC monitor aren't capable of running.  The drivers *might* have some
small settings tweaks to marginally help, but nothing you couldn't figure out on your own.  It's a normal video card, you aren't buying a special card, he
isn't physically modifying these, it's a custom driver set he modded.

You should read up some more before commenting.  It's more than a card with a special driver.  The bios on the card is also tweaked to filter out >15khz signals (eg. POST screens, pre-driver loading) to avoid damage to arcade monitors. 

[BobA]

. This kind of stuff just bothers me because it is someone with time/knowledge taking
advantage of people who don't know any better.  Throwing a sticker on someone elses card and changing the name for marketing purposes is illegal as far
as I know.  I'd have no problem if you marketed it as a package:  Ati XYZ graphics card + ultimarc custom pc drivers.  But you're not, you're making it seem
like you have some special card made for this when you clearly are not physically modifying or manufacturing these cards yourself.

Too bad you don't know diddly about what you are commenting on.   If Andy is taking advantage of people then he sure as heck fooled me.  If it was not for him and people like him then we would not have any of the parts and pieces we have grown to need and love.