New Version ArcadeVGA 3000

[Aithos]

edit:  This isn't even worth responding to.  I worded my post poorly and I apologize for that, but none of you actually read what I said either.  I'll take english language for 1000 Alex.

[Osirus23]

edit:  This isn't even worth responding to.  I worded my post poorly and I apologize for that, but none of you actually read what I said either.  I'll take english language for 1000 Alex.

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

[Aithos]

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

I'd like to point out I never called anyone stupid, never insulted anyone in any of my posts.  I never called Andy a fraud, I have apologized several times for the poor choice of wording on my posts.  For about the 4th time:  I don't have a problem with the product, with the price, with the functionality or the people who buy them.  I have a problem with the fact it is called the ArcadeVGA 3000, it shouldn't be called that.  Period.  It isn't an ArcadeVGA 3000, it is an ATI Radeon 2600 with some small modification and custom drivers.  The whole point I was trying to make is that the wording should really be changed.  If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  The fact that they are unaware or don't care doesn't make it right.  I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

[AndyWarne]

If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  The fact that they are unaware or don't care doesn't make it right.  I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

Oh you are sooo wrong.
The ArcadeVGA card has different hardware (although not that different) to allow the pixel clock to go down to the value needed for 240 x 240. It also has a custom BIOS which involved masses of development effort as it has two entirely different sets of video modelines, one set for a PC monitor and one for Arcade monitor.
Now here is the crux of the matter: The ArcadeVGA is FULLY SUPPORTED BY ATI as a custom card. On earlier versions I produced the custom BIOS myself using source code supplied by ATI. On the current version, the BIOS is actually supplied by ATI. It is compiled by them using base code which was jointly developed by myself and ATI.
You might be interested to know I have fixed bugs in ATIs BIOS for them, which have been implemented in their standard BIOS code.
I presume you are not going to believe this so PM me and I will send evidence if you want to see. I can send you some snippets of BIOS source code and also correspondence with ATI, but of course I cant send the whole code as I signed all manner of Non Disclosure Agreements with ATI.
I also have many of ATIs internal software tools, all supplied under NDA, and the hardware reference designs from which the card is custom manufactured for us.

The fact is, the ArcadeVGA card has required masses of development time and also consumes huge amounts of support time, and I also support drivers for 4 OSes.

I have many times thought about dropping the product as it is only marginally commercially viable. The only reason its still there is I am prepared to answer support emails at all hours of the evening and not allocate this time as a cost.

I might as well state now that I think the ArcadeVGA has a limited future as once the existing ATI chipsets go end of life I dont think it will be viable to re-develop everything on future chipsets.

Also, what is wrong with the name ArcadeVGA 3000? On our site we even specify the ATI chip which is used so we are not trying to mislead or hide anything.

[Malenko]

I couldn't buy a Chevy Cobalt, stick on an intake, reprogram the CPU, double the price and call it an Aithosmobile 2011.  I'd get taken to court the SECOND I started to make money and get in the public eye (assuming anyone was dumb enough to buy from me), cause it is illegal to pass off someone elses product as your own, even if you modify it.  If you think I'm wrong go ask a lawyer.  Now I'm not posting in here again, go ahead and crucify me.

I think youre wrong. Ever heard of RUF?  its the best analogy to what Andy does that I can think of. He cant resell the card as an ATI Radeon 2600 because its not just a Radeon 2600, it modified into an ArcadeVGA3000


Crucifiction and correction arent the same thing. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it seems to be based on what you think is fact and what actually is fact

[saint]

I read every word of it, but have no desire to read another word of your nonsense ever again.

I have a problem with the fact it is called the ArcadeVGA 3000, it shouldn't be called that.  Period.  It isn't an ArcadeVGA 3000, it is an ATI Radeon 2600 with some small modification and custom drivers.  The whole point I was trying to make is that the wording should really be changed.  If this was anything but an extremely niche/underground market ATI would have dropped the hammer and pulled his ability to buy from their distributors.  

I'm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161336
HIS videocard with ATI chipset

not
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131373
Powercolor videocard with ATI chipset

sure
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125326
Gigabyte videocard with ATI chipset

where
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131361
Powercolor videocard with ATI chipset

you're
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150390
XFX videocard with ATI chipset

coming from.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129144
VisionTEK videocard with ATI chipset

...............

You're complaining about an industry standard practice done by a vendor who in no way, shape, or form attempted to disguise the nature of his product or who the chipset manufacturer is.




From the website

http://ultimarc.com/avgafaq.html

    *  What are the differences between this card and a normal VGA card?

All VGA cards contain a number of in-built video modes, that applications can detect and switch to. The problem with normal cards is that all of these modes are useless on a 15Khz monitor because they all send a 31Khz horizontal scan rate signal. Even if they could be used, they are not tailored to gaming because most of them are a too-high resolution. When used with an arcade monitor the ArcadeVGA card discards all of these modes and replaces them with an enlarged set of 30 built-in modes, all of which send 15Khz and all are tailored to gaming. The mode timings are held in flash ROM on the card. The pixel clock circuitry is different to allow for a lower value of clock, needed for lower horizontal scan rates. With a PC monitor all of these modes are also available but they scan at 31Khz. In addition, on a PC monitor conventional Windows modes are available.

(emphasis mine)

Objection to your post isn't that you have an issue with the technology. We love those kinds of discussions here. The objection to your post is you essentially called the vendor a fraud. The strong backlash you're getting is because of all the vendors you might ever encounter anywhere, this vendor specifically is the least likely to ever be attempting to defraud his customers. There are other great vendors in this hobby and elsewhere, but there are no vendors I have ever come across with a better customer service/support attitude than this one. Regardless of whether or not you like the technology, and yes there are other alternatives one might choose, accusing the vendor of deceit (whether you stated it outright or by implication, since you've edited the first post I don't recall now) was unquestionably off-base.

I wouldn't stress about it though, today's drama is tomorrow's "what were we talking about?" -- welcome to the forums, looking forward to seeing what you come up with

--- saint

[FrizzleFried]

 

 

PS:  Saint's right about not stressing about this... I'm quite sure I've been there... more than once likely.

[saint]

PS:  Saint's right about not stressing about this... I'm quite sure I've been there... more than once likely.

Pretty sure you were the poster child

[Aithos]

Well I didn't call him a fraud, and I have already apologized several times for the way I worded my post.  But after reading Andy's post I guess I was
grossly mistaken about the creation and endorsement of these cards.  I have no real way of verifying what he said, but I'll just take him at his word.
If these are co-developed with ATI with their full support and their own tools, then I have absolutely no problem with it being called what it is. 

So to be 100% clear:  I apologize.  Both to Andy and everyone who has posted here.  I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong and in this case I was
definitely wrong.  However, the one thing I will say is that if everything Andy said in his post is true, then all that should be on his page somewhere, you
should be proud to have worked alongside ATI to develop a product for this market.  I would never have made my initial post in this thread had I known
and there was no way I could have known, yes I made assumptions but I had nothing to tell me otherwise. 

Thank you to the couple people who have had nice things to say, I'm looking forward to just putting this behind me and hopefully the next time I open my mouth
it will be to share something worthwhile or help someone out instead of to say something hurtful.  I won't make excuses for what I said, it doesn't matter what
is going on in my life, I was wrong, plain and simple.  So once again, I'm sorry guys.

[saint]

 

[ahofle]

another 

Pretty rare for someone to be man enough to apologize like that, especially on the innerwebs.

[AndyWarne]

Apology fully accepted, thanks..

Andy

[gatordad]

Well I didn't call him a fraud, and I have already apologized several times for the way I worded my post.  But after reading Andy's post I guess I was
grossly mistaken about the creation and endorsement of these cards.  I have no real way of verifying what he said, but I'll just take him at his word.
If these are co-developed with ATI with their full support and their own tools, then I have absolutely no problem with it being called what it is. 

So to be 100% clear:  I apologize.  Both to Andy and everyone who has posted here.  I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong and in this case I was
definitely wrong.  However, the one thing I will say is that if everything Andy said in his post is true, then all that should be on his page somewhere, you
should be proud to have worked alongside ATI to develop a product for this market.  I would never have made my initial post in this thread had I known
and there was no way I could have known, yes I made assumptions but I had nothing to tell me otherwise. 

Thank you to the couple people who have had nice things to say, I'm looking forward to just putting this behind me and hopefully the next time I open my mouth
it will be to share something worthwhile or help someone out instead of to say something hurtful.  I won't make excuses for what I said, it doesn't matter what
is going on in my life, I was wrong, plain and simple.  So once again, I'm sorry guys.

Bravo! man, I take back the blah, blah blah stuff, I'm sorry too.
If you want to build a cab or some cool controls or even fix and old game up, this is one of the best and most helpful websites around
Tons of good reading and some very innovate builds, designs, and products/mods around. Really cool website and it runs pretty well, Thanks Saint!
Ask away, some of these guys are really good.
GD

[Aithos]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.  I know I got off to a rough start here but I've really enjoyed what I've read these last several months.  I know I've learned a ton just by browsing the site and it has really helped me make some decisions on the direction I want to go with my first project.  I'm going to be ordering a lot of stuff here in the next two months so I'm sure I'll need your help once it comes time to get the show on the road so to speak.  I'm going to go modify my project post since I've made some pretty big changes to what I want to do.  I'm still looking forward to this

[lodoss118]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

[Malenko]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

cost vs worth? Also MAME doesnt use much GPU power.

[gazz292]

Andy what i don't get is why did you not offer high/mid end ati cards then with custom development with ati?

i don't think games that would need a high power graphix card would look that good on a 15hz monitor personaly,

i may be wrong of course, but i bought my arcadevga 3000 to run old arcade games on my cabs monitor how they did on the real machines,

of course, things are changing in the arcade games world, a few games run at vga resolutions i believe, and i can guess more will do so, but it'll be a fair few years yet till we can play them on mame, what with the rekoning you need double the cpu power to emulate... so when 8 or 10 gig, hundered core super doopa hyper megga threading cpu's are common.... and anyway, they will be played on a 50 inch lcd/projector screen to be accurate