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Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards  (Read 440234 times)

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northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #720 on: July 11, 2008, 10:52:25 am »
try placing it on your C: drive it caused error for me when on desktop but on C: it worked flawless.

lettuce

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #721 on: July 12, 2008, 12:59:16 pm »
0.126 version of cabmame soon SailorSat?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #722 on: July 12, 2008, 02:46:51 pm »
oops now that you mention it... ^^
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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retrometro

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #723 on: July 13, 2008, 12:03:00 am »
I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 12:05:17 am by retrometro »
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Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #724 on: July 13, 2008, 12:16:28 am »
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?



I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



Yes. Look up MameUI's help file. It's the same for Mame, except you have to write the files yourself. Use MameUI to set things, then point MaLa at your Mame exe....or, don't, and just use MameUI as your exe.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 12:18:24 am by Ummon »
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Zebidee

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #725 on: July 13, 2008, 12:18:35 am »
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.
Check out my completed projects!


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #726 on: July 13, 2008, 02:46:03 am »
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


retrometro

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #727 on: July 13, 2008, 10:41:44 am »
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.

That did exactly what I wanted.  thank you for such a quick and short response!


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Jox43w

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #728 on: July 13, 2008, 01:49:50 pm »
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #729 on: July 13, 2008, 06:14:14 pm »
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?

Yes - lcd topgun works no matter what display. It works without a monitor (although you couldnt see it)

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #730 on: July 13, 2008, 06:27:46 pm »
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))

It seems they aren't offering 6.6 anymore, as I get a re-direct page when clicking on either the drivers or full suite links. 6.1 they are offering, but only the full suite; I get a re-direct page for the drivers alone. Of course, the 6.1 drivers don't work.


<later>

Well, I got the 6.6 drivers from somewhere else - and while they work, they don't let me do what I was hoping they might: use my X1600XT with Advancemame. Thank you for the assistance, though.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 09:26:34 pm by Ummon »
Yo. Chocolate.


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #731 on: July 13, 2008, 11:26:23 pm »
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjKLq-LMgjM[/youtube]

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #732 on: July 14, 2008, 10:09:39 am »
why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #733 on: July 14, 2008, 02:47:34 pm »
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #734 on: July 14, 2008, 06:54:34 pm »
Sailor I noticed you have updated Cabmame 1.26. I also see you have included frogger.diff. I love you. :)

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #735 on: July 14, 2008, 08:38:48 pm »
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?

That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

bezerk


gauntlet


gng1


gng2


bubble1


bubble2


lcd displays for photos


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Blanka

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #736 on: July 15, 2008, 04:19:27 am »
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:


The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #737 on: July 15, 2008, 11:58:42 am »
That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #738 on: July 15, 2008, 03:12:00 pm »
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #739 on: July 15, 2008, 04:31:43 pm »
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?


why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.

The last compatible card with Advancemame is a Radeon X850. I thought maybe the drivers were the main factor and wanted to find a set that worked for my X1600XT.


That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.


I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT

The scanlines look good, and, more, the pixels are distinguishable. But the pixel effect seems to make straight lines - for example the sides of the ghosts - jagged.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 04:33:30 pm by Ummon »
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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #740 on: July 15, 2008, 06:30:01 pm »
I see I only use mamewah I was just wondering if there was some advantage to it or something.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #741 on: July 15, 2008, 07:02:07 pm »
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?

It's a Wells Gardner D9400.  Here's a video of us playing Blasteroids on it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWXlZLPsuA[/youtube]

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.

Thanks.  I had the AGP version of the ArcadeVGA card on my previous cab but sold it along with the cab.  I didn't mind not doing native resolution on the new cab but yearned for it after seeing some old cabs at some diners.

I posted these mostly to show people the difference who aren't into this stuff like the people in this forum.  ...and it's interesting to see ppl's preferences.  Some like the original round pixels in native res, some liked the smoothed look, while others like no artifacts from an LCD.  Yet there are others that like LCD with fake scanlines so they get the original look but on a crisp display.

Just looking at the comparision photos, Bubble Bobble looks better (IMO) native but Bezerk looks better scaled.  ...with gauntlet, the scaled looks more detailed...


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retrometro

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #742 on: July 15, 2008, 07:04:53 pm »
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

That's really cool to see.  It looks much better than the filters from mame.  pacman looks amazing.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #743 on: July 16, 2008, 12:23:56 am »
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).

Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)

I've done something like that myself, but i took a different approach which won't work for most LCDs.






Step1 - Upscale the resolution by 3 (vertical) or 4 (horizontal) with a bilinear filter ("prescale 4" in mame.ini, "filter 1" in mame.ini)
Step2 - Apply the RGB Triad; triad3 for vertical, triad6 for horizontal. ("effect triad6" in mame.ini)
Step3 - Set the output resolution the native screen resolution of my CRT Tube ("resolution0 1600x1200x32@60" in mame.ini)

Effects (place in your artwork folder):
Triad3 (Scanline included)
Triad6

You may need to right-click ans "save as" the effects.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 12:56:43 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #744 on: July 16, 2008, 12:59:39 am »
Holy crap that looks fantastic Sailor!

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #745 on: July 16, 2008, 02:49:36 am »
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #746 on: July 16, 2008, 10:59:43 am »
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.

Interesting.... so the cab monitor isn't rotated 90 degrees to vertical?


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #747 on: July 16, 2008, 05:27:17 pm »
Thank you Sailor .
I awas playing around with mame on my LCD for the first time and hated the clean look ,
i downloaded your files and applied your settings for my Samsung 22 " LCD and it made a world of difference .

I am planning to build a nice bartop and know now i can use a LCD to keep it small and a maybe little portable .


Thx  :applaud:

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #748 on: July 17, 2008, 03:15:31 pm »
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

@retro on Blanka's scanlines comment: actually, I remember seeing horizontal scanlines on vertically-oriented games. Recently, seeing some old cabs with I think original monitors, I noticed the lines were sorta more like a grid, but with the horizontal lines more emphasized.

On your pictures, were those recent then?  And, at least close up, I like the dimensionality of the LCD images on games like gauntlet and GnG, but Berzerk looks flat. And in my experience, when viewed from a standard distance anything not native res on a CRT looks a bit flat like Berzerk.

@northerngames: Mamewah is an fe. Advancemame is (or was) a mame build.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #749 on: July 17, 2008, 05:01:29 pm »
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

You have to right click and 'view image' and then magnify it to 100% to see the full thing.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #750 on: July 18, 2008, 12:57:05 am »
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #751 on: July 18, 2008, 01:43:57 pm »
Sailor your complied cabmame64 is that complied with core2duo support?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #752 on: July 18, 2008, 03:39:35 pm »
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #753 on: July 19, 2008, 03:50:10 pm »
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)

Yeah, 'show picture' wasn't available. Also, in IE they look artefacted unless I click on the picture again (you know, the little magnifying glass shows + or - ) and then they look good. Similar occurs if I save and view them in an image app; they have to be at 100% to display correctly. They're pretty nice. However, there is still the dimming effect, at least on my PC CRT - ALTHOUGH, perhaps this would be just fine for an LCD, given the backlighting issue.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 02:35:34 am by Ummon »
Yo. Chocolate.


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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #754 on: July 20, 2008, 02:30:47 am »
ahofle: I've not played DoDonpachi before. It reminds me of ESP Rae. That mode you created does work, almost without need for adjustment, though it ends up running at 71.1hz (which doesn't seem to affect game play). I don't know how you get '@60hz', though, because when I calculate it, it doesn't happen. Actually the refresh will be around 73-75 if wanting 25khz.

I created my own modeline which comes closer to 60hz (as in Strikers1945 there's some stutter using yours), but the scanrate is also lower at 20.9khz, which the Betson is probably not capable of. Still, for anyone using a Billabs, or perhaps any other monitor that might be similarly capable, the modeline is:

modeline '432x324 20,9khz 61,29hz' 11,20 432 464 504 536 324 330 334 341 -hsync -vsync


By the way, instead of using a custom25khz.txt, I put them in the usermodes.txt - with which I guess modes of any scanrate can be added.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 03:23:32 am by Ummon »
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

lettuce

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #755 on: July 20, 2008, 06:48:56 am »
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.

Is it possible for me to complie it again and add the core2 optimization?

lettuce

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #756 on: July 21, 2008, 09:39:23 am »
So the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file is basically cabmame in diff format, s i can just use headkaze's Mame Complier 64 and add core 2 duo support and then complie with the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file?

lettuce

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #757 on: July 21, 2008, 03:54:03 pm »
Right am running windows xp 64, and when i click on the exe file, i get,

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

any ideas?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 05:03:17 am by lettuce »

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #758 on: July 22, 2008, 12:05:40 am »
That's most likely your regional settings.

That damn decimal seperator is driving me crazy.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #759 on: July 22, 2008, 05:00:34 am »
Um ok, how do i fix it  ;D