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Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: SailorSat on May 06, 2007, 09:15:58 pm

Title: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 06, 2007, 09:15:58 pm
Hi.
I just want to say that I'm releasing "Soft-15KHz" to the public.

It's a simple tool programming videocard drivers to support 15KHz AND arcade resolutions.

As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers.

If you're intrested in details take a look at
http://www.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170 (http://www.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 07, 2007, 03:31:35 pm
Thanks for coming out with this!  Although I wish you had started working on this a bit earlier.
Has any tried it out yet?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 07, 2007, 03:40:33 pm
Well my cab runs with two radeon 9200se without problems, and I've tried about 20 different video cards, and only a hand full made any problems.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 07, 2007, 04:26:42 pm
What about all the POST/bootup screens?  Aren't those in VGA (31khz) resolution?  Could that damage an arcade monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 07, 2007, 04:31:13 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).
A third, yet not that nice way would be to use a second (S3 Virge PCI or such) VGA Card for BIOS and OS loading screens, and then disable the S3 in Windows so your main Video Card takes over (in 15KHz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 08, 2007, 02:44:37 pm
Can you have the 15Khz, 25Khz and 31Khz+ modes available at the same time? Good for use with monitors supporting 15Khz an up....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 03:01:06 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Justin Z on May 08, 2007, 03:06:49 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
Hi Sailor Sat,

I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Before it closes it manages to make backup registry entries and place them in the working directory.

I have a Radeon 9550 OEM and I'm running TinyXP.  Any suggestions on what might be causing the problem?

Cheers,

~Justin
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 06:08:37 pm
Hm...
I'll need the registry backup to reproduce the error.
Guess you have some "OEM" Catalyst driver.
Should be nothing too big :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 08, 2007, 06:15:04 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.

Ok Thanks.

Is there a limit to the number of custom resolutions? (I know there is via powerstrip).

Also for your double-scan avoiding resolutions e.g. 321 x 240 @ 60Hz, what is the actual displayed output? 320? 324? 328?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 06:23:51 pm
321 size resolutions have 320 active pixels, same goes for 401 size resolutions.

Hm...
NVidia Cards are limited to 31 resolutions, because of a ForceWare Bug, but others should not.
There should be no practical limit, however I did never add more than ~40 resolutions.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Anubis_au on May 09, 2007, 02:38:22 am
I just had a nice adventure with quickres and my work PC... ran it, it went to 320x200 fine, but when I went back to my normal res it was upside down... has this occured to anyone else?

Anyway, after a fun fifteen minutes fixing windows, I am back to normal and able to ask the question that has come to mind.

Namely, what is the advantage of using this software, or PowerStrip? What I mean is, say you install this software, and your PC has heaps of new video modes that it can run. My question is, can a MAME front-end switch video modes / reses as it launches a game, so that the menu is whatever res you set it, but games play at the proper resolution, or do you need to manually set the res for the screen via control panel BEFORE launching MAME / your front end (in which case, whats the point?)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2007, 03:09:45 am
Any emulator (and Windows game) can switch the resolution itself.

I'm using ZSNES, ZiNC, WinUAE, Project64 and "Kega Fusion" on my Cab.
Also I'm running "Guilty Gear XX #Reload", and "World of Warcraft", although 800x600 is quite hard to read on 15KHz :)

*edit*
And off course I'm running MAME on it :)

*edit again*
I've attached a screenshot of WinUAEs options showing all available resolutions
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wpcmame on May 09, 2007, 08:12:50 am
A request:

Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

I use the following setup:
- My monitor is configured to display ~288/576 lines which means that 240/480 line modes will not fill the entire height. In mame I fill the borders on left/right with artwork so therefore I want the 240 modes to be "letterboxed" (e.g. 288x240 instead of 240x240) and also tweak the start slightly so they are centered on the monitor.
- I prefer double-sized interlace resolutions since I don't like visible scanlines (specially not in the artwork).

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2007, 10:45:21 am
Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

<cut>

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.
Hm...
I'll see if I can add something like this.
Thinking about a "remove 321x240" line for custom15khz.txt.
Or shall I rather add an "Install Custom" Button so it only installs your custom resolutions?

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.
Hm...
Don't know, just did it and it worked :)

Code: [Select]
modeline '800x600@50,546' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync

*EDIT*
Okay, Build 31 will have a "remove X,Y" feature for the customXXkhz.txt files.
A "Install custom" button may follow sometime later :)
I also updated QuickRes (again) to ask if the new resolution is good. If it is NOT just hit ESC and it switches back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 10, 2007, 03:05:42 am
Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

I'm running winXP pro, radeon 9600 and catalyst 6.1 driver

I've attached the reg backup created as it failed (zipped).

I hope I can get this to work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 10, 2007, 03:07:20 am
I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

Cheers to you guys, I finaly figured out what's the problem.

Just the decimal separator.
In Germany "1,234" as integer would be 1.
At yours "1,234" as integer would be 1234, but "1.234" should be 1, so I just added a check for it.

Give Build 31 a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 10, 2007, 07:19:34 am
This definitely kicks a little ass! Once I get a new monitor for my current project, I can use my much more power X800-XT card instead of Ultimarcs nerdy little 9250 chipset. Hooray for innovation!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 10, 2007, 10:48:15 am
This is definite wiki material.  I added a preliminary page for this (just copied and pasted the project announcement basically) to the monitor/video area next to the powerstrip section.  Someone who knows what they're doing should fix my editing though LOL. :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 10, 2007, 12:31:02 pm
Good idea. I cleaned up the wiki markup a little for you.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Soft-15khz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 10, 2007, 12:48:02 pm
Much better, thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 10, 2007, 01:42:50 pm
Just got back home and tried the 31 version, which works superb.

Many thanks, nice bit of software. :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 06:20:16 pm
 :cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 11, 2007, 06:21:47 pm
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 11, 2007, 06:36:22 pm
:cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

You have the correct resolution -- you just need to find the V-HOLD knob in your monitor.  I had an older arcade monitor that did this too.  Strangely once it warmed up, it stopped rolling.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:30:12 pm
I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Yeah, It's those 50 Hz, like ahofle said you'll need to turn V-HOLD (sometimes called V-FREQ) down until it snaps in, and hopefully, your menu resolution still works with 60Hz :)

Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.
Most old (and I mean really old) should display two half images, at least my 15" NEC does =)
Most newer CRTs should either switch off, or display a "Out of scan frequency" error.
It's quite impossible to destroy a VGA-CRT this way :)

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?
You can click in any order you want, the programm installs 15KHz (if enabled), then 25KHz (if enabled), and lastly 31KHz (if enabled).
So if you install 25khz, then reboot, then click 15KHz, it will reset the adapter, then install 15khz, and then install 25KHz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:30:43 pm
*EDIT* merde... double post Oo...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 07:46:09 pm
Thanks! I'll try playing with my v-hold knob next time I test it out.
I have a few other video cards that I can try also, I'll test out each one and post my results in your test thread (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=2).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:48:17 pm
A totaly off-topic question...
Anyone around who has ever seen a XGI Volari V5 oder V8 in real life?
I simple can't find any, only those V3...
*merde*

@JoyMonkey
Go Go Go :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 07:57:52 pm
I've never heard of those Volari cards. Did Nvidia or Ati buy XGI out or something?
There's one V8 on eBay right now, but they do seem very rare.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 08:08:21 pm
They're still in bussiness, although most like with integrated stuff for notebooks and settop boxes.

I'm trying to get my hand on a V5 or V8 for quite some time, but can only find V3 cards.
Sure they're quite rare like a matrox parhelia... who really buys matrox today?

Going to take a look on eBay :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 11, 2007, 10:10:04 pm
Thank you for this awesome tool!  ;D
I am using a 27" TV connected by component cables to a dvi to component on my Nvidia Gforce6200, can I use this program to be able to get a better video quality?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 12, 2007, 05:12:31 am
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

JJ, I have been messing with this yesterday and I've got a normal Multisync PC monitor on the vga connector of my card (Radeon 9600) and my Scart TV (RGB) hooked up to my DVI port (through a VGA convertor and a hacked VGA cable). I setup the TV to clone the pc monitor.

When I have a standard VGA rez 640x480 the PC monitor displays fine and the TV interlaces. If I select a true 15KHz mode the PC Monitor just goes blank (out of range) and the TV shows the de-interlaced image. I haven't had a problem with the PC monitor or the TV duffing up. If I select a rez not suitable for the TV then it just doesn't sync (like Sailor Sat says). I couldn't guarantee that all monitors and TV's would be happy but this is my experience.

The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 12, 2007, 06:27:00 am
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

You should give the newer QuickRes a try, If you switch to a resolution like that, simply hit ESC on the keyboard and it goes back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 12, 2007, 08:09:58 am
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 12, 2007, 09:01:49 am
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 12, 2007, 01:20:40 pm
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)

Both valid methods, I have now downloaded the updated quick rez to get out of any unsuitable rez changes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 15, 2007, 08:39:10 am
I tried out a Radeon 7500 with Soft-15KHz last night and it went much more smoothly than the two old GeForce cards I tried before. The picture looks better and a few resolutions that didn't work correctly with the GeForce cards (like the custom 292x240 resolution I tried out for Robotron) worked perfectly without any adjustments.

The GeForce cards I tried were a GeForce2 MX440 and a Visiontek GeForce3. Maybe newer Nvidia cards have better results?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 15, 2007, 06:33:34 pm
From what I remember, it said Intel graphics sets aren't compatible, yet, right? Is this going to any kind of priority?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 15, 2007, 09:56:47 pm
I'm a little confused by resolution selection, and making sure that a game picks the right resolution. What I mean is,  several resolutions are duplicated in the different Khz modes, i.e. 640x480 can be selected in either 15khz mode or 31khz mode. When setting resolutions via mame ini's or the Quickres taskbar, all it lists is the resolution though, not the khz mode. So how do I make sure a game is selecting the 15khz-mode resolution and not the 31khz-mode resolution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 15, 2007, 11:26:28 pm
Install the 15khz modes only and delete the INI of the game you want to try.
I am also running on a TV w/ a Gforce 6200 and component cables... you can see some pics here on the last page http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.80 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.80)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 15, 2007, 11:49:44 pm
Yeah, but I still want the 25khz and 31 khz modes for the few games that use them and FE usage.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 15, 2007, 11:59:38 pm
then just install them all, your emulator will pick the best resolution now available thx to Soft-15
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 12:44:52 am
Yeah, I know that. I'm just interested in finding out how it decides to pick X resolution in 15khz mode when X resolution could also be picked in 25 or 31khz modes as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 16, 2007, 03:13:27 am
Yeah, I know that. I'm just interested in finding out how it decides to pick X resolution in 15khz mode when X resolution could also be picked in 25 or 31khz modes as well.

I was wondering this as well, it is impossible to tell if its 15Khz 640x480 or 31KHz until its selected and the display will either sync or not.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 05:09:57 am
I'm a little confused by resolution selection, and making sure that a game picks the right resolution. What I mean is,  several resolutions are duplicated in the different Khz modes, i.e. 640x480 can be selected in either 15khz mode or 31khz mode. When setting resolutions via mame ini's or the Quickres taskbar, all it lists is the resolution though, not the khz mode. So how do I make sure a game is selecting the 15khz-mode resolution and not the 31khz-mode resolution?
Ah... now I got it :)

The "lowres" (less than 350 lines) Modes (say 384x240) are not doubled and only available in 15KHz.
The "medres" (between 350 and 440 lines) resolutions are only available in 25KHz.
The "highres" (more than 440 lines), can either be 15KHz or 31KHz, however, If you choose 15+31KHz the same time, the 15KHz modes will be REMOVED and only the 31KHz will be added.

So there is be only 1 Frequency (either 15/25 or 31 KHz) per resolution.

There is a simple rule.
15KHz is basic.
25KHz overwrites 15KHz.
31KHz overwrites 25KHz.

So if you got a 640x480 definition for every Frequency, the 31KHz one will be the one selectable in Windows, and the otheres will be droped and cannot be selected.

--

IF you find ALL your resolutions beings doubled to 31KHz (or more) you most likely got an NVidia card and have more than 32 resolutions defined. This is due to a Bug in the ForceWare and can only be corrected by using less resolutions, most likely by disabling some unusual 15KHz resolutions.
(remove xx,yy in customZZkhz.txt)

resolutions that I would "remove":

remove 240,240
(custom15KHz.txt, games will use 256,240)

remove 448,384
(custom25KHz.txt, games will use 512,384)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 05:42:42 am
I actually have an ATI. I haven't been having any problems, I was just curious as to how it worked. I didn't forsee problems either, as I understand most arcade games don't even use the higher resolutions. Thanks for the info though, clears it all up!

Speaking of that though, is there any sort of info out there about what range of resolutions most games fall under, and what few particular games have used the higher resolutions, or the oft unused 25khz mode?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 06:25:09 am
hm...
yeah

export mames data to mame.xml and use some simple code to read it in.
i used something like that for an "tripple 15khz project", however did not finish it right now.
i only have a list of all resolutions used by mame, but not how many games use it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 06:31:14 am
I've attached the list, however I don't know how usefull it will be :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on May 16, 2007, 08:54:20 am
If you are using 15kHz, 25kHz, and 31kHz then most likely you have some sort of Multi-sync monitor.  Don't most of them have an OSD(on screen display).  The D9200 does and if you bring up the OSD, it will tell you the refresh rate the monitor is running at.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 08:50:50 pm
Aren't refresh rate and the khz mode the monitor is running in two different things?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 16, 2007, 09:45:02 pm
Just for informational purposes: I tried out my PIII with an old 64mb Radeon 7000 using .69. I had some bad flicker in Windows, and a little bit in game - both of which I'm sure could've been fixed but I didn't bother - otherwise, though it seemed to operate a little differently than the avga, it seemed to function just fine. Neat app.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Anubis_au on May 16, 2007, 11:42:49 pm
Aren't refresh rate and the khz mode the monitor is running in two different things?

Nope, they are mathematically linked.

The vertical line rate times the refresh rate = the output line frequency

eg PAL tv: 625 scan lines x25 frames/sec (50 fields actually) = line frequency of 15.625kHz

NTSC tv: 525 scan lines x30 frames/sec (60 fields) = 15.75kHz line frequency

640x480 at 65Hz = 31kHz

etc

That's why its not enough to simply reduce the output resolution from a video card, because if its still clocked at a 31kHz line freq, the reduced res means a massively increased refresh rate, which might do damage to your monitor, or at best not work. That's why you need to reduce the line freqency to 15KHz via this software, or use an ArcadeVGA etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 17, 2007, 02:00:00 am
That's what I meant, that although they're linked their not directly the same thing. Related to 2600's post, you can pull up the OSD on a monitor, but it would just display the refresh rate and not what mode you were necessarily in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on May 17, 2007, 08:58:18 am
Refresh Rate, Scan Rate, line frequency, or whatever is your naming flavor.  There are two components a horizontal and a vertical.  Both are listed in the OSD by the D9200 and almost every SVGA monitor or LCD I've used.

Example picture is in this Retroblast Article, titled "720 running at 25kHz":
http://retroblast.com/reviews/UltimarcArcadeVGA2-1292007-01.html (http://retroblast.com/reviews/UltimarcArcadeVGA2-1292007-01.html)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 17, 2007, 10:08:16 am
Weird. Just my luck that over the years owning several CRT's, I can't recall any I owned that displayed the mode.

Good to know though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 17, 2007, 02:07:48 pm
Probly just didn't notice. In one case, the other day, my PC monitor wouldn't dispaly the resolution. Just the vertical scan. Sometimes, say when I pick a mame resolution that the AVGA supports, my multi-sync will show the scanning rates but will say 'user mode' for resolution. What I don't understand is why the resolution - generally, one below VGA - I have Mame set for does not match what the monitor's OSD says in-game.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 17, 2007, 06:49:33 pm
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 18, 2007, 03:43:01 am
You need to have a hacked VGA cable to an RGB input on your TV, i.e. SCART, it won't work through anything else.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 18, 2007, 09:11:39 am
Thanks. Confusing but thanks. The reason I asked is because I have the same tv thats mentioned in the top post (Insignia with component) and nothing is mentioned about a scart connection. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 18, 2007, 09:14:38 am
SCART is a European standard that offers component (RGB) input through a single 21 pin connector.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 18, 2007, 09:34:02 am
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.

It works with my insignia.. check post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moriartyds on May 18, 2007, 01:24:32 pm
You need to have a hacked VGA cable to an RGB input on your TV, i.e. SCART, it won't work through anything else.

What about a DVI to RGB input on TV?  Will that work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 18, 2007, 02:41:44 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 18, 2007, 02:56:22 pm
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.

It works with my insignia.. check post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857)


I have read all the related post and I am currently using ATI 9500 with DVI adapter. I simply just would like to know if this is enough. None of the post I read spell this out in black & white.
 :dunno I am a rookie and don't like to assume. :dunno

Edit
Steak,  I owe you an appology. I re-read the post you directed me to and yes the answer is there in black & white. Off to testing for me now.
Thanks goes out to everyone for your input.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moriartyds on May 19, 2007, 09:26:44 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.

I already have the DVI to component, what I'm asking is if it works with Soft 15 and a TV.  I'm pretty sure that answer isnt' in the WIKI or the search function.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 19, 2007, 10:31:48 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.

I already have the DVI to component, what I'm asking is if it works with Soft 15 and a TV.  I'm pretty sure that answer isnt' in the WIKI or the search function.

Yes. That is all I am using. Read the above post
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Glaine on May 22, 2007, 12:44:00 pm
I'm only using the S-vid port on my nvidia card on an insignia 19 inch TV and it's been working great so far.

I think what may be confusing some people is that me and steak are using TVs that we could already interface with using video cards and we are only using this program to further increase mame graphics. People with arcade monitors are in a different boat as they obviously have to be even more careful about what settings they send to their monitors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 22, 2007, 01:22:01 pm
Does this program have any effect when using S-video or Composite out of your graphics card?

As you gfx card is already creating a 15Khz signal for you....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2007, 01:35:50 pm
Uhm... It "should" change something...
never tried it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 25, 2007, 09:50:34 am
This sounds like a great tool, but I'm still a little confused.

Basically, I am using an ATI 9500 Pro with S-Video out to connect to a 27" Mitsubishi CS27MX1 TV via the S-Video.

My questions are:

1) Will this program adjust the frequencies via the S-Video output or is the S-Video output always forced to standard NTSC?
2) If it does send the frequencies, can they damage a TV?
3) Does someone have pictures of the results using this connection method?

Before and after pictures would be nice.

Also, Steak, it would be nice to see some before and after pictures of your results, not just "after" pics.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 30, 2007, 03:47:08 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 30, 2007, 05:25:49 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

What configuration are you running?  TV (S-Video, Component, etc.) , Arcade Monitor, Computer Monitor, etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 30, 2007, 05:27:16 pm
Arcade monitor of course; that's what this tool is made for.  A 13" K7000.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 30, 2007, 05:30:20 pm
Arcade monitor of course; that's what this tool is made for.  A 13" K7000.

Thanks, I was just curious.  There is another thread on this same topic in the "Main" forum with people trying to get it to work on a TV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 03:05:00 am
I was messing around with an ATI 7000, on my Billabs. There's some flicker on the desktop at VGA and XGA. Also tried an Nvidia 6200 and same thing. Game-wise, some ran, some didn't. In the latter, either the monitor would cut out/power down, or it would keep doing that suction noise like it was trying but couldn't do it. The thing was, some of the classics - like Pac-man, or rather that native resolution - this happened with. Some others, too, though.

I noticed a couple other things, too: the monitor doesn't make that high-pitched sound like it does with the AVGA, nor is the image as bright as with it, either. (And it doesn't do that schizo thing, but a much smoother transition, when it comes out of a game.) I actually like this better.

Peale and you monitor tech folk know what's happening, here?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 09:05:12 am
I noticed a couple other things, too: the monitor doesn't make that high-pitched sound like it does with the AVGA, nor is the image as bright as with it, either. (And it doesn't do that schizo thing, but a much smoother transition, when it comes out of a game.) I actually like this better.

Peale and you monitor tech folk know what's happening, here?

Sound indicated some variety of sync issue.  Note that I said issue, not problem.  Brightness may be from not having a video amp, or possibly the AVGA is tuned for a brighter picture. 

Just my speculation.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 31, 2007, 02:50:42 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 03:40:15 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.

I was trying this quickly while my daughter was down for a nap.  She woke up early, so I didn't get the level of testing I wanted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 03:53:56 pm
Thanks, Peale. Obviously Andy would know, but I hadn't gotten that far, yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 31, 2007, 04:02:31 pm
So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.


That's weird. Every resolution for whichever setting you chose in Soft15Khz should show up in Windows display settings or Quickres. So if you chose 15Khz in Soft15Khz, you should see 256x240, 321x240, 321x256 etc. etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 05:31:17 pm
So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.


That's weird. Every resolution for whichever setting you chose in Soft15Khz should show up in Windows display settings or Quickres. So if you chose 15Khz in Soft15Khz, you should see 256x240, 321x240, 321x256 etc. etc.

I couldn't use QuickRes because I didn't have a mouse hooked up.  But when I looked in display properties (all modes) there were only four resolutions listed.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 06:01:09 pm
The windows display panel will only display resolutions down to 800x600 in XP, and I believe 640x480 in 98. To access those lower, 15khz Mame resolutions, you will HAVE TO use a program like Quickres.

Well, you'll need it to manually change to those resolutions. You can always write specific ini's for your games that tell Mame what res to launch the game in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 06:07:47 pm
The windows display panel will only display resolutions down to 800x600 in XP, and I believe 640x480 in 98. To access those lower, 15khz Mame resolutions, you will HAVE TO use a program like Quickres.

I went into advanced options to display all available modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 06:53:54 pm
I went into advanced options to display all available modes.

It still won't display those lower resolutions in the windows display panel.

Trust me, you have to have something like Quickres to manually change to resolutions lower than 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 31, 2007, 08:25:44 pm
The 15khz resolutions are all there in display panel on my XP (SP2) test machine  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 08:45:24 pm
Weird, I can use them, but I can only manually change them via Quickres.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 11:26:02 pm
Well, are any of you who have it working having any issues like I mentioned above (games not imaging and the monitor just making a sucking noise)? This happens with Pac-man with res set to auto, or 288x240. With the avga, auto works just fine for either orientation. Or the desktop flicker for SVGA or XGA?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 01, 2007, 04:03:53 am
Hm...
Even if your monitor couldn't sync to a resolution you should at least see something (even if its only white flashes from MAME's "Press OK"-screen).

As for brightness, the display should be as bright as with an ArcadeVGA.

For the flicker with interlaced resolution, well, that may change from chipset to chipset.
My Matrox Millenium (1st model) card flickers in 640x480, whereas my Radeons (neither the 7000 nor the 9200se) don't.

However you said you got these issues with an Radeon 7000 and an GeForce 6200, so I'm quite puzzled right now.
I'll recheck later with my 7000.

As for the resolutions, Windows should not display any resolution lower than 800x600 in WindowsXP Display properties (640x480 in 98/2000), and nothing lower than 640x480 in Windows Advanced Display. At least it doesn't for me ;).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 01, 2007, 04:03:37 pm
SS: yeah, on either card, I get flicker at resolutions above VGA. Also, some resolutions won't display anything - the monitor just tries to sync but nothing happens - or the monitor just shuts down.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 02, 2007, 04:43:20 pm
I swear, every time I start in on a project, my daughter wakes from her nap.  Today was no exception!

But I did sneak in a few moments to play with this before she did.  This time I hooked up a mouse, turned on QuickRes and tuned my resolution to 321x240.  Flicker gone.

Fired up Robotron.  F'n sweet!  So was Metal Slug, Bubbles and Defender.

Couldn't get Kymaera to launch, but I suspect a configuration issue.  It's quirky when paths aren't declared correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 10, 2007, 03:20:14 am
lm impressed with this software. just tried it with 15 khz 29" monitor and was using the lastest 9200 version of the ArcadeVga card , but now using Nvidia 6600 gt with recommended forceware drivers - i think 78.01 , and l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card . Of course l have a j-pac connect so the bios screens come up in split screen but once windows desktop kicks in all is sweet. lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering. the image is brighter and sharper and it also means l can play some of the lastest pc games which l couldnt previously. Thanks to the author ,bloody unbelievable stuff.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 11, 2007, 10:44:59 pm
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I don't understand how a 15khz signal from one card would be different than a 15 khz signal from another?  ???  How exactly does it 'kill all over' the arcadeVGA?

Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on June 11, 2007, 11:12:23 pm
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I guess he just means that now we can use much more powerful cards than what the AVGA offers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 12:25:55 am
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I don't understand how a 15khz signal from one card would be different than a 15 khz signal from another?  ???  How exactly does it 'kill all over' the arcadeVGA?

Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 12:28:36 am
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I guess he just means that now we can use much more powerful cards than what the AVGA offers.

true .
But on my montior the current setup looks way better than with the 9200 AGP version of the ArcadeVGA. And dont get me wrong the ArcadeVGA rocks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 12, 2007, 01:16:37 am
Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.

You are saying that with an ArcadeVGA/800x600/CGA monitor you get flickering and with Soft15khz/800x600/CGA monitor you get no flickering?  What you are describing is not possible and is probably going to mislead people.  Regarding the superior image quality compared to the ArcadeVGA, maybe you'd be kind enough to post some before and after pictures?  I'm genuinely curious to see what the difference is.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 04:37:08 am
Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.

You are saying that with an ArcadeVGA/800x600/CGA monitor you get flickering and with Soft15khz/800x600/CGA monitor you get no flickering?  What you are describing is not possible and is probably going to mislead people.  Regarding the superior image quality compared to the ArcadeVGA, maybe you'd be kind enough to post some before and after pictures?  I'm genuinely curious to see what the difference is.
na l wasnt saying that you get a flickering picture with the ArcadeVga card at 800x600,
what l was trying to say after reading a few post ealier that lm not getting a flickery picture as some have been getting.
l seem to be getting a clearer and brighter picture with this software and video card and the drivers specified.
l will try and do some pics of the difference when l get the chance
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wpcmame on June 12, 2007, 10:31:50 am
It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 
You have to remember that most of the flickering in high resolutions doesn't come from the interlace. The flicker occurs when neighbouring lines have a high contrast difference.

Most of the time this happens when you show computer images like the windows desktop. Modern 3D games and movies does not flicker much in interlace. Low res arcade games with doubled resolutions (without filter) flickers even less.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 12, 2007, 01:18:09 pm
Right.
I read his post as a comparison between the ArcadeVGA and Soft15khz and didn't want people to think they would not get flicker in Windows with Soft15khz compared to the ArcadeVGA. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 12, 2007, 02:21:22 pm
Yeah, this is how I read it, too. I don't know how he wasn't getting flicker at higher resolutions (which is why the tri-sync for the avga is handy, but apparently proprietary). I was, with different cards, as well as the desktop geometry being weird in XGA such that it'd be a 'scrolling' desktop. Changing to SVGA helped this, but not optimal cos I can do XGA. There are also other, slight differences, that arise cos the detailed timings, I would guess, are different.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 03:18:01 am
I havent yet had the time to download this app and try it.

Is this considered to be better than Powerstrip in any way?

Here is the problem Im trying to solve:

Running via JPAC from a Geforce MX440 video card. Using Powerstrip with its default arcade res  "640x480i - arcade" (this defaults to 16khz which didnt not work for me, however when I set it to 15khz it works.. )

On this setting I can play the few games Ive tried just fine on my arcade VGA monitor (usually using Strider as a test Rom) BUT the windows desktop is horribly blurry, and Im loading the roms basically by memory out of my favorites folder in MAME32.

After some tweaking of resolution, I can get the windows desktop looking very clear, but then its split down the middle.. Only when I go back to "640x480i - arcade" and set to 15khz do I get a single usable screen again, which as I stated above looks fine once the game starts but is horribly blurry in windows (XP)

Will Soft-15khz or QuickRes work better for me in this regard than Powerstrip? Ill probably have some time later tomorrow to mess around with it some more, but any advice, suggestions to work with would be great! My goal = clear XP desktop without a split down the middle!



 8)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on June 13, 2007, 03:36:32 am
Powerstrip can probably do exactly what this prog does with sufficient tweaking, but this prog is dead simple to use. Install it and.... well, that's it really. Everything is done at the driver level, so you don't really have to tweak anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 13, 2007, 03:37:48 pm
Will Soft-15khz or QuickRes work better for me in this regard than Powerstrip? Ill probably have some time later tomorrow to mess around with it some more, but any advice, suggestions to work with would be great! My goal = clear XP desktop without a split down the middle!



 8)

Yeah, as JJ said...BUT:

1.it seems you're using powerstrip to force VGA resolution.

2. quickres is just an app that lets you select resolutions from the taskbar; it's not a driver or set of drivers.

3. we don't know what monitor you're using and what it's capable of. I'm not sure you know.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 08:28:03 pm

1.it seems you're using powerstrip to force VGA resolution.

I beleive I have to, without powerstrip I couldnt see a thing once windows booted ( I could see the split screen at post/bios etc with the Jpac set to 15khz and 31khz jumpers..


3. we don't know what monitor you're using and what it's capable of. I'm not sure you know.

Here's a thread (with pics) I made on the monitor back in April when I first got the upright..
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65253.msg655754#msg655754

It does work with the original Jamma board quite nicely, but via JPAC and Powerstrip I can only get a usable screen at 15khz and 640x480i res. As I stated above it works just fine when game roms are loaded, but at Windows desktop its very blurry.. with some tweaking I can get Windows in crystal clear, but then its split screen once again... I do have a drawer full of older Rage II era video cards, but then certain games like SmashTV, Strike Force etc lag like mad, so I want to stick with the Geforce if possible.

Will try the Soft15khz app tonight if I get the time!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 10:22:36 pm
Well after alot of playing about with Soft-15khz and having similar results as with Powerstrip, I have found a very usable workaround to my issue of not being able to read anything on the Windows Desktop.. Or the MAME game list..

I just changed the default Font to Arial Black Bold 16 and everything is VERY readable now  :P
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 14, 2007, 02:49:34 pm
That's what I thought. You're using an original equipment monitor, Do you know the resolutions it's capable of? Getting split screen is usually bad. My multi-sync auto-shuts down when this happens. You may be putting undue stress on your monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 20, 2007, 07:07:30 pm
Update: Well, this program seems to be very hardware (video card, at least) dependent. On my PIII using a Gforce3 Ti200, I got regular native resolutions. However, on my new 2.8 P4 with an Nvidia 6200 unlocked to a 6700, I got the following very curious results (note, both computers are using XP SP2) :
 
First off, my Billabs multi-sync has various resolutions that many game resolutions fall under and the OSD displays them (ie: 640x224 for 240x256, 336x240, etc). In all games using soft-15 with the 6200, in the OSD I get 'user mode', with the timings at the bottom, and it turns out there are groups of games that fall under these, too. However, they're not all related by game resolution as is the case for the regular modes: for example, most 224x288 games are in the same group - except Jr Pac-man.
 
This is where it gets interesting. I noticed that in most games, the horizontal frequency shown in the OSD was 31khz - and often the vertical frequency being over 100! Even more interesting: I had my Monivision monitor hooked up to the other output, and expected it to turn off when loading games at native res. Not so. If got the same kind of image as with the Billabs -  and the exact same in a few cases, no geometry difference between the two - and scan lines just as with the AVGA. Hmmmm.
 
What is happening here? To note, there are other differences, of which I've expressed before: the AVGA does some kind of strange brightness thing at low and medium resolutions (and my monitor makes a whine) that I can't replicate in Mame with stretch, and isn't happening with soft-15, though soft-15 does seem to make it a little brighter. Although, while I find the brightness of the AVGA games entrancing, those in soft-15 are easier on the eyes, particularly the scan lines.
 
There are also some oddities: regardless of either card used, there are games that don't sync - the Billabs will make a syncing noise, or both monitors will be blank and Mame32 closes back to the GUI - though they're not the same between cards. I haven't tried regular mame in a little while but recall observing the same behavior.

I also re-emphasize that windows at 1024x768 gives a scrolling desktop on either computer.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2007, 12:30:24 am
Hm...
Sounds like the 6200 doesn't output 15KHz, an all Modes are "doubled" to 31KHz. Then they would either be the doubled vertical resolution (i.e. 320x240 should be 320x480) or doubled refresh rate (~120Hz).

About the 1024x768... Yeah, actually the VISIBLE resolution is 1024x600, as it is simply not possible to display more lines without droping below 50Hz.

I don't know whats the problem with the "low-end" cards.
I know a GeForce2 MX can do interlace, as it does on DOS, and it did with older Detonator / ForceWare drivers.
However on the newer (66.93 and newer) drivers, all "cheap" (GeForce2 MX)  cards I tried can't do interlace, the "better" ones (GeForce2 GTS) do, although they both can do with the old drivers.
Sadly older drivers don't support custom resolutions.

However, you can checkout what resolutions you card is outputing if you take a look in the ForceWare, as there should be an "Advanced Timing" Button somewhere.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 21, 2007, 03:14:10 pm
Hm...
Sounds like the 6200 doesn't output 15KHz, an all Modes are "doubled" to 31KHz. Then they would either be the doubled vertical resolution (i.e. 320x240 should be 320x480) or doubled refresh rate (~120Hz).

Well, it looks pretty much the same to me. This would apparently be a bonus: to get native-looking resolutions, people wouldn't need a monitor that goes below 31khz. Might be something worth looking into.

Quote
About the 1024x768... Yeah, actually the VISIBLE resolution is 1024x600, as it is simply not possible to display more lines without droping below 50Hz.

Somehow, the arcade VGA is able to. Along with that 'brightness' factor, this might be something proprietary.

Also, anything new on the development of 35khz and higher resolutions?...and on integrated video?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2007, 06:06:15 pm
As for integrated video...
Radeon Express should work fine.
GeForce2Go or such could work, but right now never got hands on one.

Intel GMA is still in works. I should be able to add resolutions to the mode list, however I can't disable the "basic" ones.
Also I don't have a board with it.

As for new resolutions...
Right now the only 35KHz resolutions I can imagine of would be 800x600 @ 60Hz and 1024x768 @ 50Hz (all lines visible).
But I don't know of any game that needs it, so nothing happens.

--

As for native resolutions...
If you monitor can handle 120Hz, you could try the file attached.
BUT... real 320 * 240 will look quite bad on an 21" VGA Monitor, because of the small dot matrix. You will see quite large scanlines (larger than the "visible" lines)

*EDIT*
(http://community.arcadeinfo.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=4313&d=1173531337)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 22, 2007, 01:42:37 am
Yeah, when I say integrated I'm asking about Intel sets.

35khz and above: well, I do a lot of stuff in Windows still, plus I like to run front-ends and vector games at high resolutions. Both my monitors will do up to 1024x768. (One is an arcade monitor, the other is a presentation monitor.)

I tried an experiment and only loaded 31khz resolutions. This made all the games run at high refresh but still with native-looking scanlines. (I also tried it on my 21" PC monitor, and I recommend it to anyone using a PC monitor. You're right in that the scan lines are thick, but it's better than using Mame effects.) So, I guess this card is weird: it will output 15khz, but only to a select few games. Most run high refresh.

Also, I don't know what to do with that file.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 22, 2007, 10:52:24 am
just save it in the same folder as soft15khz.exe and name it custom31khz.txt, then run soft15khz and click "install 31khz".

bout intel... yeah, a new board with a new chipset requires a new cpu and new memory and --- yeah, quite a big investment for "just" another driver :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 22, 2007, 05:12:30 pm
Intel set: yeah, that is a big investment.

just save it in the same folder as soft15khz.exe and name it custom31khz.txt, then run soft15khz and click "install 31khz".

Oh. Okay, that's what I did in my experiment and forgot to mention it, but I wasn't sure that was what I was supposed to do. So, the card is weird, and it's like this:

1) if I load all three modes, it will display most games as native-looking resolutions with high refresh but a few will be at 15khz. There are a few games that just won't load: some are particular to my Billabs monitor, whereas some won't load on either monitor.

2) if I load only 31khz mode, it will display all games at native-looking resolutions with high refresh rates. The same ones still don't work, though a couple few that didn't, do now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: computarmann on July 03, 2007, 08:44:14 am
    I tried soft- 15khz with my laptop which has an nvidea geforce 5200 and emulators like epsxe look amazing on my sony pvm-2530. I'm using windows xp on the laptop and mame looks almost as good as advancemame on my usual desktop machine that is usually hooked to this sony pvm which has windows 98. I tried windows 98 using an ati all-in-wonder 7500 and the desktop as well as mame etc. looked more flickery. I expect windows to flicker some, but I don't understand why with the ati 7500 that mame flickers. I would like to use advancemame for mame and use windows for other emulators but The ati is just too flickery so I put my old voodoo 3500 back in just to use advancemame. The voodoo 3500 does a much better job of filling the screen out and seems to look more crisp on advancemame. Maybe support for voodoo can be added to soft- 15khz.
    Soft-15 khz is an amazing program and I run my laptop in clone mode and it does'nt matter what the desktop looks like because I just use the laptop display which appears normal at 800x600. Epsxe and zsnes look about as perfect as perfect gets with the resolution set to 640x480. I tried this program not expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised. I tried ccs64 and it was something to see a blue c64 screen in RGB.  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ARTIFACT on July 10, 2007, 10:41:56 pm
Would this improve display on my setup?

. Nvidia GeForce 4 MX
. S-Video
. 27" SONY Trinitron TV

... not SCART, not component... S-Video

Thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2007, 12:00:52 pm
    Soft-15 khz is an amazing program and I run my laptop in clone mode and it does'nt matter what the desktop looks like because I just use the laptop display which appears normal at 800x600. Epsxe and zsnes look about as perfect as perfect gets with the resolution set to 640x480. I tried this program not expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised. I tried ccs64 and it was something to see a blue c64 screen in RGB.  :D
Try running ZSNES in Custom Mode with a 512x240 resolution, it will look even better :)

Would this improve display on my setup?
... not SCART, not component... S-Video
Most likely not, although I've never tried.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tba on July 13, 2007, 05:11:27 am
first:
woo,  :cheers: i tried this program and it worked great on my old PII-400 with a 3DFX voodoo 3500 TV!

Thank you, now i just have to get my Nanano 29" monitor working right!

Second:
SailorSat: you are my new hero! ;) i love your program, love your Sig line and could stare at your Avatar all day, there is just something so sexy/evil about it!  >:D

keep up the great work! 8)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: disaac on July 13, 2007, 07:02:58 pm
Crap I can't seem to get this installed on Vista 32-bit.  I follow the instructions but never get to see the lower resolutions in Quickres or Windows Display Properties.

Radeon 2600 XT - yeah vista and this card (Cat 7.6), I know im pushing my luck already.

I have a feeling its not making the correct entries into the Vista Registry as needed.

Anybody seen this?

Daniel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ARTIFACT on July 14, 2007, 12:07:45 am
Would this improve display on my setup?
... not SCART, not component... S-Video
Most likely not, although I've never tried.

awww :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 14, 2007, 02:17:45 am
Crap I can't seem to get this installed on Vista 32-bit.  I follow the instructions but never get to see the lower resolutions in Quickres or Windows Display Properties.

Radeon 2600 XT - yeah vista and this card (Cat 7.6), I know im pushing my luck already.

I have a feeling its not making the correct entries into the Vista Registry as needed.

Anybody seen this?

Daniel

Hm...
Do you get the "higher" resolutions in 15KHz?

If you feel lucky, you can either dump a part of your windows registry (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / SYSTEM / CurrentControlSet / Control / Video) or attach the registry backup that soft15khz should create.

As far as I know, the software itself works, however the newer video hard- and software may be a problem...
A GeForce 8800 with ForceWare 158 didn't work with lower resolutions on XP either.

At the moment, I can't do very much as I don't have those "highend" hardware :)

However I'm lookin into 3Dfx again, as it seems to be possible we get interlace on those cards at last. It works on linux side, so it SHOULD be possible to do it on windows too :)

I'm also trying to get hands on an Volari V3XT, V5 or V8, as someone told me they support custom resolutions. However nobody owns such a rare gem, and a normal V3 doesn't work ;)

Also I don't know why the newer Matrox cards don't display low resolutions.
Seems like a "limit" in the windows driver, higher resolutions work fine.

(After reading this post, I just noticed bad my english must be *gg*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: edge on July 16, 2007, 09:27:17 pm
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 17, 2007, 12:25:39 am
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)

Yeah, would be nice to know what chipset/graphic card.
Laptops with Radeon or GeForce chips should work fine out of the box.

Intel with an GMA-900 (and newer) Chipset "may work" with a beta version of Soft-15KHz too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on July 31, 2007, 07:52:54 pm
Hey guys, I'm really new to this mame/cabinet stuff and I have a few questions (Is there a more noob way to start a post??  ;))
I just picked up a cabinet.  The game itself is Karnov, that looks like it used to be a space invaders cabinet.
Anyway the guy informed me that it is a jamma cabinet..  So I'm wondering if I got a J-Pac board and hooked up a compatible video card with Soft-15khz is that all I will need to be able to use the arcade monitor that is inside the cabinet.  I would really like to use it since the machine is in perfect working order.
Let me know if I'm way off here guys, but from what I've read this is all I will need.  I'm looking forward to getting this project going  ;D

Cheers

Carlito
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on July 31, 2007, 08:14:41 pm
Carlito: that's pretty simplified, but yeah, in a nutshell, that's it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 10, 2007, 04:02:32 pm
Well... some news incoming :)

I'm currently using a Radeon 9600 Pro to drive my two cabs.
Dualhead works, as long as your card detects both displays (you MAY need to add 75 Ohm resistors to the RGB lines).

Also some more bugfixes with floating point values. (I really hate that stuff)

onboard geforce cards (tested on an geforce 6150) works fine also.

I'll add some new options on the next release.
first would be "double 15khz" (details below) and "custom" (if you only want to use your own modelines)



'bout "double 15khz"...

there are two ways to get a 15khz resolution to 31khz.
way 1 (the vga way) is drawing each line twice (320x240 on VGA actually is 320x480)
way 2 (my way ;)) is drawing each frame twice (means 120Hz instead of 60Hz)

lo-res (15khz) on hi-res (31khz) and VGA monitors works nice
looks sweet on hi-res arcade monitors and "larger" presentation beasts
however to use an real VGA monitor you should turn the "focus" poti a bit blurry, else you will have real sharp hardware scanlines.

hacked one line in MAME to have it output each frame twice cause we use the double vertical refresh (means 320x240 @ 120hz)
it works fine without, however you won't be able to sync the speed via tripple buffer.

*EDIT*
double 25khz (512x384) should work also, as most better hi-res and presentation screens support 1024x768 at 60Hz.
we could use 512x768 at 60Hz or 512x384 at 120Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 04:07:42 am
I was trying a lot of homebrew games that run at 320x240 in fullscreen mode - and most of these games crash if I set to fullscreen - probably because the game request 320x240, and since this is not a available video mode (321x240 is) it will crash.

Is it possible to solve this problem ? Considering that I cant configure those games to run at 321x240, and not 320x240.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 04:14:04 am
Hm... Could you name an example?

Maybe we could solve this by changing resolution to 322x240.
Either the games crash because they can't find a 320x240 resolution OR the crash because they try to divide the resoltution by 2 (to calculate the mid point of the screen) which will certainly crash an integer :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 12:10:42 pm
This homebrew game, for example...

http://agtp.romhack.net/extra/LA-MULANA.zip

Cave Story is another very popular game. It also runs at 320x240 - but the game dont crash, it switches to 640x480 (which is a bad thing anyway).

http://homepage2.nifty.com/rochet/storage/dou_1006.zip



And if you use an emulator that use Direct3D to display the picture, it will also create some problems. pSX for example (a Playstation emulator) - most Playstation games runs at 320x240, but if you configure to use 321x240 instead, this extra pixel will create weird artifacts in the picture. This problem dont happen if you use 320x240, since this is the exact resolution that the game runs at.

Another example is that new CPS3 emulator (also using Direct3D). You can also set a custom fullscreen resolution (and since CPS3 games runs at 384x240 - the closest resolution to use with Soft-15khz would be 392x240) - but these extra pixels will also create the same artifacts. The only way to fix it is turning on the bilinear filtering, but it will blur the picture.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 12:26:02 pm
For PSX you should use 640x240 or 512x240 (Tech Romancer for example runs with 256x240 Resolution)

'bout CPS3 Emulator...
IF the Emulator does NOT support some borders, you're stuck :(
However... Just use MAME ;)

*EDIT*
La-Mulana runs fine on my cab, although this game runs with 1024x768 resolution, not 320x240 (as stated in the readme)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 04:57:47 pm
I see...

Is it also possible to adjust each resolution according to your monitor (in order to avoid overscan) ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 10:59:46 pm
That's not directly possible because each modeline would need to be finetuned AND every monitor "out there" has it's own settings.
Also it's very hard to finetune them "live". You could boot a DOS enviroment and fool around with the AdvMAME Modeline tools.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 05:26:28 pm
Just installed this util on my cab and from what I can tell mame (0.118) doesn't see any of the new resolutions.  Running mamepp w/ the -verbose flag I see all the standard resolutions but none of the low res ones.  I have a WG9500 multi-sync monitor.

Checked the wiki etc didn't see anything.

EDIT: I also have a GeForce MX 4000

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on August 18, 2007, 06:27:32 pm
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 06:29:40 pm
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240

That's what I was doing (well -resolution   :) ) and when I added -verbose I noticed it didn't print out any of the low res resolutions in the list of resolutions it found.

Tried out powerstrip and that went much worse...

~telengard

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2007, 06:31:56 pm
What ForceWare Version are you running?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 06:49:34 pm
What ForceWare Version are you running?

93.71

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 19, 2007, 03:59:49 am
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 19, 2007, 12:58:35 pm
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.

Anything I can do to validate that the modes are in the registry or in the Control Panel->Display part?  Also, I wasn't sure of the behavior but can you have all 3 different Khz modes installed at the same time.  It seemed to let me do it but I wasn't sure.

I smell PEBKAC on my part........   :)   :P

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 19, 2007, 01:26:27 pm
Yes, you can enable every frequency on multi-sync monitors.

You should give QuickRes a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Grauwulf on August 21, 2007, 08:57:59 pm
I just wanted to think you for an excellent piece of kit.  :notworthy: I only got a few minutes to play with the software today before I had to do to work, but I had it set up quickly on win 98 running a Raedon 7500 and it looked fantastic. I can't wait until I get a chance to explore the capabilities a little farther.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 21, 2007, 10:50:22 pm
Ok, must have been something I was doing.  Booted up the mame cab, installed soft-15khz, worked like a champ.  Given something so easy I'm not really sure how I managed to screw it up.  Run a program, press a few buttons, run mame.  All the resolutions are there now which is great.

Just fired up Crystal Castles on the new WG D9500 and WOW!!!    :notworthy:  :notworthy:  :notworthy:

Thanks so much for this tool.  I promised myself I wouldn't waste hours and days again on tweaking video modes like I did w/ AdvanceMame a few years back.  This program has allowed me to have the nice modes with none of the work.

Do you have a paypal donation thing?  I didn't see one in this thread or on the initial link you gave.

thanks again!
~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 21, 2007, 11:45:22 pm
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 21, 2007, 11:58:39 pm
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.

Ah thanks.  I was looking for a paypal button.   :)

~telengard
Title: Newbie Q...does that mean arcoade monitor work with standard videa cards?
Post by: Jm1010 on September 03, 2007, 10:18:46 pm
Wow! does that mean that arcade monitors can work with standard cards (e.g. Radeon  7000?) and we don't need to buy a 15hz card such as the Altimarc? That would be awesome!

Do you recommend using win98 or TinyXP? Does it work with the software that automatically pick the right resolution for each game?

Is there any drawback compared to using the dedicated arcade card?

Thanks again

JM
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vindes on September 05, 2007, 10:23:01 pm
This is a really great accomplishment, thanks for the great work SailorSat.

How would one create a custom resoultion for say 392x288 @ 60hz?  I read the faq, but didn't follow what all the numbers on the mode definition lines were.  Are these basically what would be generated by lrmc?

I know that would come out to 17.3khz.  Obviously not something a 15khz monitor would like, but supposedly the Betson Imperial multisync will sync to anything from 15khz to 40khz.  At least the manual says it will, and I remember reading a post somewhere on these forums from a guy that said he tested it and it worked.

Basically I'd love to see the x288 resolutions running at 60hz instead of 53hz.  Games without much on the screen look good (like pacman) but when you get stuff like Dig Dug where the whole screen is painted there's a lot of 53hz flicker.

I guess the other option would be to display the x288 resolutions at 120hz, which I think would be around 35khz.  Again, something the Betson should handle according to its manual.  (50-120hz refresh)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on September 12, 2007, 12:57:42 pm
I was wondering if anyone had any luck using a Radeon 7200 AGP card?
This is the card I'm using and my J-Pac seems to think the right sync is being sent but I'm having some problems adjusting the H and V holds so the desktop stops scrolling.  The adjustments are very very sensitive and I can't seem to get it to hold properly.
Not sure if this is a problem with my card/Soft-15khz problem or not.  Just looking for some assurance that a Radeon 7200 should work.

Thanks for the great software,
Carlito
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 18, 2007, 06:12:39 pm
Anyone have an idea if a Geforce FX5200 or 5500 would work ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: klin on September 26, 2007, 12:09:16 am
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 26, 2007, 04:22:59 am
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: klin on September 28, 2007, 01:19:13 am

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
[/quote]


I am currently using Mame Plus Plus and I am having problem locating "Horizontal Stretch" onscreen.

Could I get more info on your instruction?


thank you for the wonderful software...

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2007, 09:00:41 am
Today my new GFX card arrived, a nice GeForce 8600GT, so I tried the new ForceWare (162.18) and it does not show resolutions below 512x384.
However with the same ForceWare, and an (quite dusty) 6600GT it works fine with the lower resolutions.

So it seems the GeForce 8 series can't support the low pixelclock.
However 640x480 interlace works fine. So does 25kHz and 31kHz.

*EDIT*
No wait... pixelclock is NOT the problem!
NVidia just seems to "filter out" resolutions by their.. well resolution ;)
No Modes less than 512 pixels width and 384 lines height...

Now wtf are they thinking? :)

---

@klin

With ^ I mean the key left of 1, just below ESC.
If you press it, sort of a menu pops up with Volume etc.
Press Cursor Up several times until you reach Horizontal Stretch (see image) and change it to 1.00
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 28, 2007, 10:56:08 pm
I tried ForceWare 162.18 with a GeForce FX 5500 - it only showed resolutions above 640x480 (but the 640x480 resolution itself was very odd). 720x480 worked fine, though.

So, the problem was just the new drivers ? Because I returned the card thinking it would not work with low resolutions.  :hissy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2007, 06:28:02 am
I can't say for sure.
The ForceWare 162.18 works fine with a 6600GT.

The nvidia tech support isn't very helpfull at all.
They say the 8600GT supports those low modes, however they can't figure out why they don't show up. (lol!)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: calitomans on October 03, 2007, 11:56:17 am

Anyone tried this tool on a radeon x1650? I am probably going to purchase one, but wanted some feedback first...

Thx
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Rickn on October 05, 2007, 05:53:24 pm
So help me out, I am interested in playing with this... is the very first thread on this post the only way to finf the most up to date.
Is it at build 36, including quick res...

Sounds fantastic, now once I find the downloads, and the time I would love to evaluate it.

Thanks

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 11, 2007, 11:57:41 pm
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9367
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: XYXZYZ on October 14, 2007, 09:19:58 pm
First of all this is a fantastic program, it appears my headaches with PowerStrip are over. I love how simple Soft 15kHz is, thanks for writing it.

However, every now and then when I exit a MAME game back to the frontend (MaLa) everything goes wacky and the screen is all zig-zaggy. Reloading the MAME game will fix things, and exiting again will usually set everything back to normal. But not all the time, I've had to reboot the computer occasionally. Also, it's sort of an intermittent problem; I can't seem to pin it down to certain games or other factors.

Is this some kind of bug or is there something I can do?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dynamite on October 15, 2007, 01:47:06 am
Hi guys I "think" I have this program working but I still need help setting things up. I'm using a radeon 9000 with a hacked vga cable to the monitor. The monitor I'm using is WG U2000 and from what I've found the specs are:
resolution 560x240
horizontal scan frequency 15.1KHz to 18KHz std
vertical scan frequency 47Hz to 63Hz

So since this isn't a digital monitor and I don't want to have to adjust the sync each time I change games or switch to the frontend I have to use a common res for everything right? I've seen people saying that you have to have the desktop set to 640x480 for this program to work but when I use that res I can't get the vert sync to lock in. If I use 640x288 it locks in but the games look squished from the sides.

Noob Questions
1. What resolution do I set the desktop, the frontend, and mame to?
2. What other important commands should I check in mame.ini?
3. Should I be selecting the 16 or 32 bit resolutions from quickres?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2007, 06:55:48 am
@XYXZYZ:
Hm... Are you using 640x480 for MaLa?
Sometimes monitors don't note the switch from progressive to interlaced video and vice versa.
As far as I can say, it's not a bug, as I can't reproduce on any of my hardware.
However you're not the first person to mention this.


@dynamite:
maybe give 400x256 a try, but don't enable vsync or tripple buffer then.
as for mame.ini... normaly you would enable tripplebuffer and switchres, but in your case I woult carefully try it out.
I can't really believe there are monitors out there that really need to be finetuned to every single resolution every single time you change the game.
Try to lock the 640x240 resolution (15.8kHz, 60Hz) and then start some games (with switchres enabled).
As for bit depth... I use 32bit all the time.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 30, 2007, 04:45:55 pm
So it looks like the GeForce8 won't ever support native resolutions below 512x384 :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 30, 2007, 08:44:55 pm
Quote
Well, maybe somebody needs to hack the forceware. Or maybe advancemame will re-emerge, or something like it emerge. Wonder why Nvidia would do that?

As far as I know, the GeForce 8 has a "feature" with certain resolutions to "scale" it to some other resolution...
You create an resolution like 1050x800 pixels, and tell the card to hardwarescale it to a native resolution (say 1280x960).

I suppose thats for LCD/TFT/Plasma and other "fixed resolution" displays...

On my Sony CRT using a GeForce 8600, 320x240 is output as 640x480 with a bilinear filter on it (at least it looks that way).
With my GeForce 7600, 320x240 is output as 320x480 with (simple) line doubling.

As for hacking the forceware...
Well someone feeling lucky and wants to give it a try?

A little Off-Topic...
Someone tried a recent ATI card (newer than Radeon 9x00) with Soft-15kHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the watchman on November 04, 2007, 05:37:54 am
I have a Hercules prophet 9200 and I have tried to run the program but it just keeps coming up with  a runtime error 75.  Is there anything I can do to get around this?

Pete
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 04, 2007, 09:52:50 am
You need to start Soft-15kHz from a directory it can read/write to.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on November 25, 2007, 09:16:19 pm
To those who may be interested, SailorSat provided me the following list of modelines for each of the video modes in her software:

  '15KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "240,240,60", "modeline '240x240@58,795' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,240,60", "modeline '256x240@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,256,60", "modeline '256x256@59,496' 5,36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,264,60", "modeline '256x264@58,317' 5,35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "288,240,60", "modeline '288x240@59,885' 5,84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "296,240,60", "modeline '296x240@59,941' 5,95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "304,240,60", "modeline '304x240@59,305' 6,2 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,200,60", "modeline '320x200@59,535' 6,2 320 336 368 410 200 216 219 254 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,240,60", "modeline '321x240@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,256,60", "modeline '320x256@59,917' 6,68 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "336,240,60", "modeline '336x240@59,749' 6,83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,256,60", "modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,264,60", "modeline '352x264@57,257' 7,35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,288,60", "modeline '352x288@51,116' 7,4 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "368,240,60", "modeline '368x240@59,196' 7,47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "384,288,60", "modeline '384x288@51,219' 7,85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "392,240,60", "modeline '392x240@59,898' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "401,256,60", "modeline '400x256@52,419' 8,08 400 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "448,240,60", "modeline '448x240@60,01' 9,16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,240,60", "modeline '512x240@59,973' 10,68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,288,60", "modeline '512x288@50,939' 10,68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "632,264,60", "modeline '632x264@56,751' 13 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,240,60", "modeline '640x240@59,96' 13,22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,288,60", "modeline '640x288@50,955' 13,1 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync"

 

  '15KHz Interlace

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,448,60", "modeline '512x448@59,863' 10,6 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,512,60", "modeline '512x512@58,232' 10,6 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,480,60", "modeline '640x480@59,536' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "720,480,60", "modeline '720x480@59,934' 14,6 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "800,600,60", "modeline '800x600@50,546' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "1024,768,60", "modeline '1024x600@50,201' 20,9 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 15, "custom15khz.txt"

 

  '25KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 25, "448,384,60", "modeline '448x384@60,009' 12,95 448 456 504 520 384 387 390 415 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 25, "512,384,60", "modeline '512x384@59,959' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 25, "custom25khz.txt"

 

  '31KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "512,448,60", "modeline '512x448@59,863' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "512,512,60", "modeline '512x512@58,232' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "640,480,60", "modeline '640x480@59,536' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "720,480,60", "modeline '720x480@59,934' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "800,600,60", "modeline '800x600@50,546' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "1024,768,60", "modeline '1024x600@50,201' 41,8 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 31, "custom31khz.txt"

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 01:09:49 pm
Can the Following Resolutions be added:

768 x 240 or 384 x 240 (Street Fighter Series)
384x224
800 x 254 or 400 x 254 = (MK Series)
512 x 448 = (Virtua Fighter)

I tried to read up about adding custom resolutions, but it wan't it English........Does anyone have a quick and easy tutorial on this??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2007, 01:17:23 pm
For CPS games use 392x240, for Mortal Kombat use 401x256, and Virtual Fighter uses 512x384 (which is 25kHz) so you need to use 512x448.

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 02:06:27 pm
For CPS games use 392x240, for Mortal Kombat use 401x256, and Virtual Fighter uses 512x384 (which is 25kHz) so you need to use 512x448.

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".

I have been using Power Strip before trying Soft-15KHz and have been using the following resolutions:

Street Fighter Series - 768 x 240
MK Series -  800 x 254

Would the resolutions you suggested be better to use than what I listed above?? In terms of picture quality/Filling the entire screen.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 02:29:38 pm
Also, If I can add 384 x 240 would that be a better resolution than 392x240?? If that is possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2007, 03:50:30 pm
You won't have those tiny black borders left and right, but thats all difference.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 04:38:21 pm
You won't have those tiny black borders left and right, but thats all difference.

Hmmmm so basically what resolutions will give me the best quality picture with the least amount of black borders?? I am little confused now  ???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2007, 01:27:59 am
Use the "base" resolutions added by Soft-15kHz, they work fine for almost everyone.

If you still want to create more "perfect" modelines, well grab yourself ADVV from AdvMAME, boot a DOS enviroment, and try to create it.
It's quite some work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 27, 2007, 02:09:33 pm
Using PowerStrip I was able to add both 768 x 240 and 800 x 254, which did fill the screen better than the resolutions built into SoftK.

But using 512x384 for Vitua Fight did not work for me. The screen was all garbled. What settings for MAME should I be using???

Also, I cannot seem to find a resolution that will work for Killer Instinct(320x240)

I tried 320x240 and it gave me a black screen. I could hear sound but no image. Any ideas??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2007, 05:29:03 pm
The thing about resolutions is, that they are NOT universal.
It is simply impossible to make them all fill the screen without loosing pixels on either side.

For Killer Instinct try 321x240, although MAME should select the right resolution itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 28, 2007, 01:34:19 pm
All right Killer Instinct is working nicely now.

For some reason still can't get Virtua Fighter to work. The closest I got was a rolling screen.........Any suggestions???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on December 05, 2007, 04:55:45 am
I just got a bentson 27" multisync and have it running on a ATI 9700.  Works great. 
I then installed soft15k and it works great!

But I'm still getting a TON of original resolutions when I look at quickres (1024x726->2048x1452 and everything inbetween).

Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on December 05, 2007, 09:38:07 am
Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 


Remembered this tool from a Retroblast review
Refresh Force (http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 05, 2007, 10:04:47 am
I just got a bentson 27" multisync and have it running on a ATI 9700.  Works great. 
I then installed soft15k and it works great!

But I'm still getting a TON of original resolutions when I look at quickres (1024x726->2048x1452 and everything inbetween).

Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 

Thanks

Hm... Choose a custom Monitor profile like SVGA 800x600 or something, or try using the catalyst driver to limit the resolution (there was an option somewhere)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 06, 2007, 10:30:07 pm
Does this tool work with windows XP 64 bit? or Vista 64bit?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 03:56:13 am
It should work with XP64.
Never tried it on Vista though :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 07, 2007, 07:20:24 am
one more question. I have a 7950gtx Geforce. Has anyone used it with the latest nvidia drivers 163.75?



Thank You
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 12:04:51 pm
The last one I tried was a 7600GT, and that worked.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 07, 2007, 03:38:45 pm
Cool, what about the driver version? Reason I am asking because I am redoing my mame computer and I am doing fresh windows install.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 03:44:15 pm
Should work with the newer drivers too, last one I tried was 162.18
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 06:11:34 pm
Ok I just got my cabinet up and running. I installed my Bil labs bl27CB0p monitor.  I selected this monitor because of its capablities to display multi resolutions and refreshrates. http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

I am running win xp 32bit OS and nvidia 7950GT with 163.75 drivers. I installed latest version of soft 15khz version .36. My questions is what mame settings do I need to use to get the closest results to orginal resoultions and refresh rates? Also once I installed soft 15khz and installed all three khz modes. I rebooted the computer and when it booted into the windows desktop which is running @ 800x640 it was flickering alot. I didnt want to screw up my brand new arcade monitor so I uninstalled soft 15khz until I an understand more what I am doing. can anyone tell me why it was flicker?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 09:49:35 pm
It's flickering because 800x600 is a PAL resolution and running with 50hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 10:01:27 pm
Yea i ment 800x600 not 640, Ah I see now in your page 800x600 and 1024x768 are in 50hz.


So what can I do. I can change resolution in desktop to 640x480 but I still run other games that use 800x600 and 1024x768.

Is there a way to elimate soft15khz if 800 and 1024 are used?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 10:19:54 pm
They all actually show up as 60hz to the OS :)

As for MAME...

In MAME.INI...
Switch to DirectDraw (video ddraw) and enable switching of resolutions (switchres 1), then enable tripple buffer to avoid tearing (triplebuffer 1).

If you want a real SMOOTH emulation you would want to disable throttle, frameskip and autoframeskip (throttle 0, frameskip 0 and autoframeskip 0).
Please note that you get sound disortions in the newer MAME builds, so consider giving "cabMAME" a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 10:33:50 pm
Thanks for the recommendations, can you tell me how if its possible to by pass the use of  soft15khz when running 800x640 and 1024x768?  I still those higher resoultions for visual pinball and vector games and ofcourse dont want them to run @ 50hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 11:29:29 pm
Put a custom31kHz.txt in the same folder as soft-15khz.exe with the following contents...

Code: [Select]
modeline '1024x768@60p' 65.0 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -vsync -hsync
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync

The uninstall and reinstall Soft-15kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 14, 2007, 10:04:32 am
Ok What about all the 50hz modes in the 15hz range ?  Do I need a seperate custom config file? Also one other quick question my monitor doesnt have an option to display what resolution its in on the OSD is there a program or setting in mame to show the actual resoultion running? I cant run to show me what its running at? One last questions you had mentioned Cabmame to help with tearing on arcade monitors. I compile my own mame source for optimiztion of Dual core Intel proccessors. I also compile Hi_diff into my builds. Can I used the 121_u1 soundsync hack with 121_u4 version of mame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 14, 2007, 04:32:28 pm
I just tried the custom.txt file and it worked. However when I used the switch resolution checkbox and ran donkey kong screen went black. By default mame is running everything at 800x640.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 14, 2007, 11:52:34 pm
Can I used the 121_u1 soundsync hack with 121_u4 version of mame?
Should work, but you also need the 121u1_emuspeed.diff for soundsync to work.

However when I used the switch resolution checkbox and ran donkey kong screen went black.
Well... try giving donkey kong a fixed resolution then.

Also one other quick question my monitor doesnt have an option to display what resolution its in on the OSD is there a program or setting in mame to show the actual resoultion running?
The only software I know that does this is PowerStrip, if you enable the (auto) OSD. It shows the exact timing of you graphics card onscreen after you switch resolution. BUT it is known to malfunction with lowres resolutions, causing the system to freeze for 2 or 3 seconds.

However for MAME, you could try running MAME from the command line and turning on "verbose".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 15, 2007, 01:32:35 pm
I think I am just going to run all games in 640x480 d3d with cabmame.  I would like the flexablity to use my own mame compile and just add the sound fix. I did try to compile the all the hacks into my .121U4 build of mame but recieved this error when compiling.

src/emu/video.c: In function 'recompute_speed':
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: 'OPTION_REDRAW' undeclared (first use in this function)
Finished!
0 Hours 12 Minutes and 44 Seconds Elapsed.
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: for each function it appears in.)
mingw32-make: *** [obj/windows/mame/emu/video.o] Error 1

Is that beause I am using ur hacks from mame 121u1 in a mame 121u4 build? What specific diffs should I be using?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 15, 2007, 01:42:18 pm
Well yeah, I usually update the hacks every few releases.
Seems somethink broke (or some patch did now work)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 15, 2007, 02:10:28 pm
Ah ok I just tried it with just soundsync and emuspeed and it worked with u4. What the neogeo.diff? is that to address sound in neogeo games? Also Volume seems lower any way to adjust?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 16, 2007, 12:23:52 am
neogeo.diff reenables the "real" 320x224 pixels the neogeo hardware does instead of the mame enforced 304x224.
Most games display some kind of "garbage" in those area, however, thats what the real hardware does.

It also kills some "scaling" errors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 09:20:38 am
Quote
If you want a real SMOOTH emulation you would want to disable throttle, frameskip and autoframeskip (throttle 0, frameskip 0 and autoframeskip 0).
Please note that you get sound disortions in the newer MAME builds, so consider giving "cabMAME" a try.

Hi SailorSat.

The sound distortion you are referring to here, is that the fact that if you are synchronizing the framerate to a monitor refresh rate that is different from the original game's you get a different sound pitch?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 17, 2007, 12:18:17 pm
you SHOULD, however mame doesn't change the pitch so if doesn't generate enough samples if the emulation is lower than 100%, and you get too many samples if it's faster than 100%.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 03:04:25 pm
So what is the sound problem that cabmame addresses?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 17, 2007, 03:51:10 pm
It's exactly this problem.
cabMAME changes the speed at which the soundbuffer is read, so that there are no buffer underrun/overrun hickups.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 04:02:33 pm
I guess I should ask what is the consequence of this problem; what does the user experience?  Is it stuttering sound or something like that?
I have not played a lot with the recent MAME releases but I don't recall having experienced sound problems with triplebuffer and running kunfgum at 60Hz (original ran at 55Hz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 17, 2007, 09:03:54 pm
I am amazed the mame team hasnt implemented this hack. What are the percentages of people who actually run mame at the exact refresh rates?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 03:41:01 am
for example the good old pacman runs at 60.61 Hz.
So if you run it on exact 60.00Hz, you are running with ~98,99%.

So this makes pacman about 1,01% slower (and the sound pitch those 1% lower).
I guess only real fanatics hear the difference :)

---

The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.

that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.

---
But... R-Type for example is a example for this being pretty bad.
On a normal PC-VGA-Card, you would have something like 800 x 600 @ 56Hz, which pretty good hits R-Types 55Hz.
However on Soft-15kHz or the ArcadeVGA, it will run at 401 x 256 @ 53Hz, which makes R-Type run with ~96,36% which you most likely will hear (although its not that bad as it sounds).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 18, 2007, 07:54:32 am
Quote
The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.
that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Quote
you SHOULD, however mame doesn't change the pitch so if doesn't generate enough samples if the emulation is lower than 100%, and you get too many samples if it's faster than 100%.

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).


Also, catching up with this post, it should be noted that this problem only applies when using syncrefresh (which is on automatically when choosing triplebuffer in full-screen) because MAME runs the game at the refresh rate of the monitor.  If not using these features, MAME runs the game at the original speed regardless of monitor refresh and screen tearing ensues.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 09:38:05 am
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).

Yeah I was trying to describe cabMAMEs behavior.

And for those new MAME features (it should be refreshspeed), well... It doesn't work too good, still have cracking and jumping sound.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 18, 2007, 10:06:06 am
OK.  Thanks.

I'll check out your build if I run into sound problems when I get a monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 18, 2007, 01:49:21 pm
Manuel: It worked well for me. I just compiled the hacks into my own mame build.

Sailer I do have a question. I am running d3d, artwork all on, tripple buffering, and 25scanline.png and 640x480 resoultion in desktop

I tried using same settings with ddraw and it just centers the game in the middle of screen. The gaems all fit on screen and artwork and overlays looks good.  get some tearing espically noticable when playing zaxxon. Should I stick with d3d or is ddraw better? If so how do I get ddraw to work with the aartwork and fill the screen instead of cropping and centerizing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 03:25:28 pm
Err... Don't know, I don't use artworks at all :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 10:46:03 am
Ok Sailor was doing some testing and I have a question. My setup is an Nvidia Geforce 7950GT Running

forceware 163.75 drivers. I have all 3 modes installed on soft 15khz. I also added a custom31khz.txt

with these 2 entries (modeline '1024x768@60p' 65.0 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -vsync -hsync
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync)so my desktop would not

flicker as per your instructions. I have a (Billbas BL27CB0P 27" 15~48 kHz
Autosync™CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA Penta-Resolution V-Freq. 47~90 Hz) Monitor.

Now I am running mame with ddraw, no hardware stretch, switch res on and certain resolutions

instead of getting  15khz horz and 60khz vertical I am getting double that on each. I will list out each res

mode i have tested and exact values I am getting. My questions area as follows:

Is it safe to run the arcade monitor @120+khz vertial even if specs say 90khz?
Why isn’t the monitor running these resolutions at the 15khz/60khz range??
If its a limitation of my video card or monitos is there way to test similar resoultions that may run at 15khz?

I spoke to ummon who has the same monitor and said he has had

similar findings with a geforce 6 series card. Can it be that newer PCI Express cards exhibit this issue

of doubling refresh rates with  certain resolutions? Anything to address this? I would like to run all

15khz resolutions at 15khz since games also appear brighter as well. Please let me know what you think.

All tests were done in 32 bit color

240x240   30.9khz   116.6khz
256x240   15.7         60.4
256x256   32.5         119.3
256x264   16.2         58.6
288x240   31.8        120.1
296x240   31.7        120.1
304x240   15.8        58.4
320x240   15.5         58.1
320x256   32.8         119.1
336x240   15.8         60
352x256   32.6         120.5
352x264   32.3         114.1
352x288   15.9         50.9
448x240   15.5         32.4
448x384   24.8          59.9
632x264   15.8          56.8
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 11:11:37 am
I just got off the phone with billbas tech support and they said there were some reports of people burning out the horizontal at high refresh rates, so I was advised not to run above 90khz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 11:21:05 am
Hm... I've used both a GeForce6 and a GeForce7 without problems 15kHz "only".

I'm wondering why you get double vertical refresh with some resolutions without feeding some special modelines in.

P.S. Its Hz in vertical, not kHz :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 11:39:50 am
Is there any suggestions or further tests you want me to preform?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 12:13:08 pm
Hm... Take a look in the forceware, there should be a tab with costum resolutions, the should all be around 60Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 12:22:01 pm
They all say 60hz reported by OS and  progressive, however 240x240 shows 58.80hz for example. Should I adjust anything?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 12:41:16 pm
Hm...
Everything should be fine...
Don't know why it doubles the refreshrate
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 12:42:37 pm
Any way of changing resoultion slighly to see if it will stick to 15hz? I really need 256x256 to run @ 60hz Maybe run 256x260?
Also is there a way to change 352x288  to 60hz? That resolution works but runs games too slow

I just installed 93.71 drivers and also elimated custom31khz.txt and still same behavior.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 22, 2007, 12:22:09 am
Well I can confirm theres something not right with nvidia cards and at least with my monitor.

I tried installing a geforce 6800 gtx and all resolutions doubled not just some.
So I installed a ATI x300SE and guess what all resolutions now run @ 15khz so there is something up with the nvidia cards. You may want to look into this further Sailor.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 22, 2007, 06:09:37 am
Thats pretty much impossible without such a card :(
My 6600GT and my 7600GT (both AGP) work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 22, 2007, 08:54:25 am
well I m not the only one who eperiened this issue. These are PCI-E cards not AGP though.
There is a issue though for sure.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jetto Funk on December 24, 2007, 09:08:04 am
Sweet, maybe I won't need a new video card after all :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 31, 2007, 11:29:47 pm
Anyone try a ATI 3850HD???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 09, 2008, 08:52:46 pm
rrrr...  I had everything working GREAT!  Then my C drive died, had to run some disk checks... killed windows... had to run a repair install of XP over my old one.

Now I'm having problems in 1/2 of the resolutions that soft-15 added!  If I run SF type games, I get an out of range on my betson monitor (which handles 15, 25 and more).

How do I find out how many resolutions are available?  (quickres always throws up a TON of them). 
How do I find out what resolution MAME is trying to run?
How do I test each resolution by hand?  (quickres isn't showing that many resolutions)

Thanks! 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 09, 2008, 08:58:52 pm
double rrrr... just realized that after I uninstalled the soft15 resolutions, it STILL has problems with a bunch of mame games now... !@#$

Its showing up as 45khz and 60hz for a bunch of them (pacman/sf2/upndown).

Is it time for a reinstall of the XP?   Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 10, 2008, 02:53:56 am
You should rather reinstall the ATI drivers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 10, 2008, 05:27:28 pm
Tried that before posting...  Uninstalled the ATI drivers and then went back to the Omega drivers... no go... reinstalled the ATI drivers... no go...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 11, 2008, 01:02:20 am
Hm... Then something is messed up. Can't help you on that without lookin first hand :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 17, 2008, 08:50:08 am
I got it working.  I uninstalled, then rebooted, then reinstalled.  I think up until then, I had done one, but not both uninstall/reinstall and rebooting together.   I put off fixing it for a few days because I thought I was going to reinstall the OS anyway (newer drive) but now I'm probably going to put that off also.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 24, 2008, 08:25:05 am
Has anyone tested a latest generation ATI video card. Just wondering if it works well with soft 15
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 24, 2008, 09:15:35 am
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 24, 2008, 02:54:09 pm
what about the 3850 or 3870HD??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 25, 2008, 01:19:57 pm
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.

Is this becoming a market trend?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 30, 2008, 10:11:35 pm
Hey sailor
Take a look at the last video card in that thread. the geforce 7300. He has the doubling of same refresh and uses a custom file to remove and re add.
 Seems like my 7850GT is doubling certain resolutions. Take a look at my post about certain resolutions double. Could that be ena fix for my issue. The thing is I dont have card anymore. If this is the fix you may want to add it to the FAQ

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=3

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

     
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 31, 2008, 02:32:50 pm
Update I just got a hold of a Nividia 7950GT and guess what. After adding that information from previous post and putting it into a custom15khz.txt It works like a charm. No more line doubling.

Sailor you need to add this to your FAQ for nivida 7 series cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 03:25:51 pm
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on January 31, 2008, 03:40:26 pm
I have few questions that were probably already asked and answered but it may have been long enough to change by now.

Does it work on XP pro yet?

does it work with the AVres Tool?

has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 04:57:31 pm
Does it work on XP pro yet?

Worked fine for me when I tested today.

Quote
has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?

Can't see how that this would make any difference at all, but worked fine on a 256MB AGP card for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 05:38:14 pm
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?

Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 05:39:48 pm
does it work with the AVres Tool?
yup.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 05:43:58 pm
Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.

Ok thanks. I'm looking at creating a bunch of resolutions with carying refresh rates (e.g. 57Hz etc...), as games at that refresh don't go down well at 60Hz...

If there is no limit on number of resolutions, you could create a lot varying refresh rates....?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 06:08:40 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 06:27:48 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox

ATI on everything here. So in theory, you could go the advancemame route and create an exact custom resolution for every single different resolution.... although I imagine there are advantages to restricting the number a bit to keep things displaying without monitor adjustments (depending on your monitor).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 01, 2008, 03:14:09 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox

ATI on everything here. So in theory, you could go the advancemame route and create an exact custom resolution for every single different resolution.... although I imagine there are advantages to restricting the number a bit to keep things displaying without monitor adjustments (depending on your monitor).


Yes, slightly different timings can and often will affect screen geometry, but it won't be enough to shift it to a different mode on the monitor. The ultimarc/soft15 modes seem to be good approximations to meet 95% (or more, I don't know as I'm not a pokerom) of cases. It depends how picky you are. I think the really picky advancemame users create a special timing for each game. Incidentally, it seems Advancemame and regular MAME treat the same modes/timings differently.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on February 01, 2008, 11:56:37 pm
I've installed the Soft-15KHz (all 3 modes) on my P4 PC w/ the 6600GT video card and everything seems to be running great.  The only games I seem to have some slight problems with are the vector games, in particular, Tempest.  In Tempest, the game seems to have shifted slighted down on my WG D9200 monitor.  Is there any way to correct this?  Also, these vector games are significantly dimmer than the regular mame games.  How can I brighten them up?  And why are there no resolution listed (0x0) for these vector games?

I'm also wondering if there is an English version of the document which explains how to calculate custom resolution settings.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 04:24:54 am
Vector Games use another type of monitor, and don't have a "real" resolution (altough you could a define a min and a max value for the beam position), thats why the show a resolution of 0x0.

As for the brightness... Theres some option in mame.ini to increase brightness.
Try to increase "beam" to 1.25 or something (2.0 is really bright!).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 02, 2008, 11:09:51 am
Yes, slightly different timings can and often will affect screen geometry, but it won't be enough to shift it to a different mode on the monitor. The ultimarc/soft15 modes seem to be good approximations to meet 95% (or more, I don't know as I'm not a pokerom) of cases. It depends how picky you are. I think the really picky advancemame users create a special timing for each game. Incidentally, it seems Advancemame and regular MAME treat the same modes/timings differently.
Ok thanks.

I'm not that picky , so will proably just go with the standard - although I think getting correct refresh rates is most important as it stops all the nasty juddering/tearing on scrolling...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 11:57:02 am
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 02, 2008, 02:11:16 pm
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)

Really? I appear to still have difficulty. Triple buffering helps but seems to cause odd slowdowns when used with directdraw on my system.

If I enable vsync I get rid of tearing but get that nasty 'jump' every few frames....

What does throttle do exactly - throttle game speed to current vertical refresh?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 02, 2008, 09:37:48 pm
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)

Really? I appear to still have difficulty. Triple buffering helps but seems to cause odd slowdowns when used with directdraw on my system.

If I enable vsync I get rid of tearing but get that nasty 'jump' every few frames....

What does throttle do exactly - throttle game speed to current vertical refresh?

I get an 'erk' every few seconds using triplebuffer on some games. Mainly namco vertical games - pac, mspac, and mappy. As for throttle, uncheck it and the game runs at the horizontal refresh. FAST. Maybe it's different in cabmame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 10:50:53 pm
throttle keepts the game run at "100%" original speed.
if you disable it, the game runs as fast as it can.

tripplebuffer limits the game to the vertical refresh rate (i.e. 60hz)
however there still is the "frameskip" which should be set to 0 to avoid those "bumps".

the downside is that the sound gets disorted a little (some games more, some games less) until your useing either cabmame or mameuifx (or any other mame version with a soundsync "hack")


there's allways a small tradeoff in "perfect" emulation until you get the perfect modeline.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 03, 2008, 06:05:41 am
throttle keepts the game run at "100%" original speed.
if you disable it, the game runs as fast as it can.

Thats what I thought.

Quote
tripplebuffer limits the game to the vertical refresh rate (i.e. 60hz)
however there still is the "frameskip" which should be set to 0 to avoid those "bumps".

Not sure I agree with you on thisthere. frameskip is 0 and self-explanatory - the "bump" is not a skipped frame, its a problem mosty visible on smooth scrolling games, where there is a difference between the screen refresh and the original games screen reresh. e.g. dragon ninja - horizontal scroller - 57Hz. Running mame at 60Hz, you can see a bump every few frames as it scrolls..?

Anyway, I need to look up what difference triplebuffer makes and why it stops tearing as I think all the "sync to vertical refresh" options are rather important here too....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 03, 2008, 08:55:39 pm
I think it's like she said at the end, Silver. That's the reason for Advancemame. By the way, did you notice the ATI update in my thread?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 04, 2008, 01:15:18 pm
I think it's like she said at the end, Silver. That's the reason for Advancemame. By the way, did you notice the ATI update in my thread?

Oh, I agree there is always a tradeoff...

...It's just that it currently sounds like soft15Khz+ATI card allows for unlimited number of custom modelines. Which is basically what advancemame offers, except that advancemame calculates the perfect one for each game. Simply creating a few at varying frequencies, alongside the 60Hz ones, should be a pain free way of removing both the jerky issue and the sound issue in one go?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 04, 2008, 01:22:36 pm
or just use cabmame or mameuifx which include a simple yet fantastic "hack" that fixes the sound.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 04, 2008, 03:19:05 pm
or just use cabmame or mameuifx which include a simple yet fantastic "hack" that fixes the sound.

Ok I'll take a look. Can't see cabmame anywhere, though mameuifx pops up easily enough - I notice that you are credited with the sound/audio hack. Out of curiousity what is the change? Or - why is the audio/video not synced in regular mame?

Obviously won't fix the scrolling jitters though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 04, 2008, 05:52:52 pm
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9555

there is link for cabmame.

You can use the .diff file and compile your own build of mame if you just want to apply the sound hack. I use hack plus hi.diff to remove nag screens. Headkaze made a simple GUI FE to recompile mame source.

Question for sailor. I see you removed the neogeo.diff. Can you tell me what is the specific .diff files I need just to apply the soundsync fix to mame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 12:51:50 am
@bent98: emuspeed and soundsync should do the job

@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 05, 2008, 01:22:13 am
Oh, I agree there is always a tradeoff...

...It's just that it currently sounds like soft15Khz+ATI card allows for unlimited number of custom modelines. Which is basically what advancemame offers, except that advancemame calculates the perfect one for each game. Simply creating a few at varying frequencies, alongside the 60Hz ones, should be a pain free way of removing both the jerky issue and the sound issue in one go?



It might be. I had the idea of adding a modeline in Advancemame using the data from a soft15 modeline. Advancemame displayed it at slightly higher refresh - something like, 16.4khz (and a little lower or higher than 60hz). For some reason, it doesn't display all it's modes at 15khz, as the arcade vga and soft15 do. Mame just does what you tell it. Advancemame does something with it. Not necessarily one way or the other, but it is interesting.

I also noticed some difference in behavior between my Geforce Ti200 + soft15 and the arcade vga. For example, I have polepos set to 256x240 and I get a 'user mode' with the arcade vga but the Ti200 ends up doing 640x224 on the same monitor. Also with the Ti200 + soft15, I put on triplebuffer on Mappy (or any 224x288 game), and it was smooth. Not so on the arcade vga.


SailorSat: what is the limiting factor on Nvidia cards?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 01:45:35 am
SailorSat: what is the limiting factor on Nvidia cards?

A "bug" in the ForceWare.
They read/write from/to the CUST_MODE registry key with a 3000 byte buffer, while one mode is 92 bytes.
32 Modes * 92 Byte = 2944 Bytes = fine.
33 Modes * 92 Byte = 3036 Bytes = buffer overrun.

If you add more modes via the default NVidia controls you'll end up with garbage in the registry the first way.
If you add more modes via Soft-15kHz the data in the registry is fine.
However, on bootup, the driver reads only those 3000 bytes, which cuts off the 33rd mode and anthing behind it, causing the whole CUST_MODE string getting detected as "faulty" and droped, hence the card generates the modes itself IN 31kHz.

*EDIT*
It may be possible to "hack" the driver to increase the buffer size, however I'm not that good in disasembling drivers :)
If anyone does, please also take a look on the Intel Driver ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 05, 2008, 07:29:57 am
@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)

Ok thanks. sounds like a reasonable workaround, as speedup/slowdown and pitch shift will be quite small for most games, although I'll still look at custom resolutions at varying frequencies.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 08:09:38 am
hm... my current build (not public yet) includes an option for seperate "user modes" already, it should be possible to enhance those, so they don't get added with "fixed 60hz" to windows, but rather their "real" vertical refresh. 640x480 @59Hz anyone?

(there's an extra button "install user", and an extra textfile called usermodes.txt, so you don't have to modify the base modelines)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 05, 2008, 09:43:52 am
They way it stands right now with the limitation of 31 modelines for nividia cards, how many do we have right now? Just wondering with your new build of soft 15khz if it gives nvidia users room to add additonal modelines. Or is it keep exsiting modelines and just add addtional refresh rates?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 10:07:52 am
if I remember correctly... 29 @15khz modes, 2 additional @25khz, 6 changed @31khz
so if you only use 15khz, you can define two or three new modes without removing some of the base modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 05, 2008, 10:33:48 am
Do you mind if I ask when you will be making your newversion of soft 15khz available to the public?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 10:44:09 am
Do you mind if I ask when you will be making your newversion of soft 15khz available to the public?

"when it's done" :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 05, 2008, 01:12:03 pm
hm... my current build (not public yet) includes an option for seperate "user modes" already, it should be possible to enhance those, so they don't get added with "fixed 60hz" to windows, but rather their "real" vertical refresh. 640x480 @59Hz anyone?

(there's an extra button "install user", and an extra textfile called usermodes.txt, so you don't have to modify the base modelines)

Though I have a copy of Winmodelines, as the site is down, everyone else is going to have to use your new version for that. Incidentally, it doesn't have any stock modes like yours, and I kept getting line errors so I gave up.

Slightly off topic: you might consider putting links to soft15 and cabmame in your signature or whatever.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on February 05, 2008, 09:41:56 pm
@bent98: emuspeed and soundsync should do the job

@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)

So, using MAMEUIFX32 (or cabmame), do I also need to enable "Synchronize audio with video" ?

What about "Sync to monitor refresh" and "Refresh speed" ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 01:39:06 am
So, using MAMEUIFX32 (or cabmame), do I also need to enable "Synchronize audio with video" ?
yeah.

What about "Sync to monitor refresh" and "Refresh speed" ?
don't enable.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 05:06:40 am
Build 37 online.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 11:15:43 am
Hey Sailor

Great new on the new release. I see this is whats new:

Alpha Build 37 (February 06. 2008)
"User" resolutions added. (usermodes.txt)
Attention! These are added with their real vertical refresh to windows.


Intel GMA and EGD drivers added. (experimental)


"doublescan" modelines featured on NVidia and 3Dfx.


New command-line switch.
-ius - installs "User" resolutions

Are you going to update the FAQ and get some more info how to utilize the new features?

Also on the doublescan" modelines featured on NVidia and 3Dfx. update does that mean I dont need to run a custom 15khz.txt file to fix that??

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 11:18:35 am
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 06, 2008, 12:13:31 pm
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.

Ah, did not realise the custom15Khz.txt forced vertical refresh to 60hz. Excellent, will use usermodes.txt
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 12:18:13 pm
Ah, did not realise the custom15Khz.txt forced vertical refresh to 60hz. Excellent, will use usermodes.txt

Na, it only show 60hz in the resolution list, the resolution itself is output correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 12:41:10 pm
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.

1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

2) Concering usermodes.txt do they conflict with the standard modelines? What i mean is can you have the same resolution twice with a different refresh? How does one tell Mame to use the different refresh? Is it just for example 240x240@59 in the rom.ini file for the game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 12:46:33 pm
1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

<CUT>

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

No it's not, as it works fine on most cards without those changes.

2) Concering usermodes.txt do they conflict with the standard modelines? What i mean is can you have the same resolution twice with a different refresh? How does one tell Mame to use the different refresh? Is it just for example 240x240@59 in the rom.ini file for the game?
Exactly that way.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 01:53:59 pm
1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

<CUT>

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

No it's not, as it works fine on most cards without those changes.



So for clarification if I still need the custom15khz.txt what do you you mean by "accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag"??

I dont want to be bothersome I just am not clear on what it means.

Thanks again Sailor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 02:35:01 pm
doublescan is a modeline flag, just like -hsync or interlace.
it simply means that each line is output TWICE.
i.e. 320x240 is output as 320x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 06, 2008, 05:50:52 pm
I've had some other computer trouble in the last day. One I got fixed, another I have no idea on, but before them, I had stopped some win services with idea of freeing up memory and such and now when I click on any version of soft15 I get a "runtime error '5' invalid procedure call or argument". Do you know what could be the issue here, SS?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 09:05:52 pm
I sent an email to the omega driver team in hopes they can hack the 3000 byte buffer limitation on the forceware drivers. I really would like to fiddle with the usermodes.txt feature.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 01:23:03 am
I've had some other computer trouble in the last day. One I got fixed, another I have no idea on, but before them, I had stopped some win services with idea of freeing up memory and such and now when I click on any version of soft15 I get a "runtime error '5' invalid procedure call or argument". Do you know what could be the issue here, SS?

Err... Okay ^^,
I'm pretty clueless on that one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 02:53:56 am
I'm still in the dark about how to get this running properly on the arcade monitor.  I have a TinyXP PC running a Matrox Millennium II / PCI 8MB with the last released Matrox drivers for this card.  I run Soft15khz (from a folder called Soft15k), and select the Matrox card, then hit the "install 15k" button.  At this point it's still hooked to a PC LCD.  I then load quickres and the list of available resolutions is long and strong.  I select 320x240.  I then switch the VGA connector to the one going to the JPAC in the cabinet and get a double side-by side flickering image of the 320x240 tinyxp desktop on the arcade monitor, which is a Wells-Gardener 7602.  I'm sure this is related to the refresh rate or interlace (or lack thereof), but I cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong.  Ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 02:56:50 am
You know you need to reboot after installing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 02:59:34 am
Oh, sorry, yes.  There was a reboot after the Soft15k, but before the quickres.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:01:57 am
There should be no resolution of 320x240 with Soft-15kHz.
Try switching to 640x480 first.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:09:22 am
I just redid this to see what was happening.

If I *don't* reboot, I get a huge list in quickres - double image when I switch over to the arcade monitor.

If I *do* reboot, I only get 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 at various color depths in quickres.  Still a side-by side image on the arcade monitor at 16/24/32 bit 640x480.

So you're saying I need to run soft15k (once), reboot, then select 640x480x32bit in quickres and then switch the connector to the arcade monitor?  If so, I've done that but still get the side-by side half images on the WG7602 arcade monitor.

(BTW, thanks for the great help)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:19:12 am
That more sounds like it doesn't work at all. You shouldn't be able to see anything on the LCD after the reboot.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:28:54 am
So the fact that I can see windows on the LCD monitor means that it's not working?  If it does work, I should get an "out of range" message, then?

If that's the case, it isn't working, then, even though the install program seems to indicate that it thinks it's installed and working.

Any ideas on what I can check/change?

The one thing that may be causing problems is that this motherboard has a built-in AGP Intel845GL video circuit.  I've disabled it, but it might be worth mentioning.  I initially tried installing Soft15khz with that, but it would only show up greyed out and was not selectable, so I disabled it and put the Matrox card in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:31:21 am
Hm... What driver version is "the newest"? Should be something like 5.92 or 5.94.
Do you have any other card available? (a GeForce or a Radeon?)

*EDIT*
The OnBoard Intel shouldn't interfere.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:38:35 am
Version is 5.33 006

Where is the 5.92 version for the PCI Millennium II?  I didn't see anything that high on Matrox's site for that card.

Edit: Nevermind.  I found 5.82.018 in their legacy section.  I'll try that now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:42:16 am
Hm...
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/latest/home.php

Last version for the Millenium II on XP should be 5.82
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/files/w2k_582.cfm
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 04:00:01 am
Partial success!

I uninstalled Soft15khz, then the prior matrox driver, and installed the new matrox driver (called "final" on their site), then rebooted, then reinstalled soft15khz, then rebooted but the image was still visible on the LCD.  I had to go into matrox's monitor adjust controls and select 60 for the refresh manually then the lcd went out and soft15khz seemed to kick in.

I can SEE the windows desktop fine (well blurry, but overall okay) now on the WG7602.  However, then I try to run mame (neogeo roms on mamepp), it says the requested video mode is unavailable and Direct3D failed.  I'm running DirectX8.  Seems like I'm pretty close.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 04:12:22 am
Either set Direct3D Version to 8 in MAME, or try DirectDraw.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 04:23:59 am
MAME was setting itself to version 8 automatically (at least it reported that in "-verbose" mode), so I'll give DirectDraw a shot.  Thanks for getting me this far so that the Soft15Khz is working!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 04:28:59 am
Now that I think of it...
I don't think the (ancient) Millenium II does support Direct3D 8 either, so DirectDraw is the way to go.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 07:19:13 am
Sailor can you post some additional usermodelines that you use for mame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 07:53:49 am
Err... Not really, I just use the base ones :)
However I got something lurking around.

We have the "Cruis'n"-Resolution (25kHz though)
modeline "512x400 25kHz 57Hz" 15,87 512 576 640 640 400 404 408 435 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 09:32:18 am
Cool.

Hey just to test since I am limited with modelines right now on nvidia card. can you tell me what modeline would run pacman as close as possible to its orginal state. Keep in mind I am running a Bilabs 27 inch monitor in the horizontal position.


thanks sailor

Btw I havent heard back from the omega driver team yet. I know you had mentioned intel driver limit. When he responses to my email I can ask about that too. Do you want to tell me specifically what to ask about the intel driver need to be addressed?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 10:01:59 am
Hey just to test since I am limited with modelines right now on nvidia card. can you tell me what modeline would run pacman as close as possible to its orginal state. Keep in mind I am running a Bilabs 27 inch monitor in the horizontal position.
Err... Is that a Multisync Monitor or just 15kHz?
In 15kHz you would use 352x288, however the game will be slowed down from 60Hz to 50Hz.
In 25kHz i would use 512x384, although you will get some borders above and below.

Its quite impossible to get close to its real state on a standard Arcade Monitor, although it COULD be possible your monitor can go up to something like 16.5kHz, and a vertical refresh of say 55 to 56Hz, however I wouldn't fool around with that as it would certainly not work with other games/resolutions.


Btw I havent heard back from the omega driver team yet. I know you had mentioned intel driver limit. When he responses to my email I can ask about that too. Do you want to tell me specifically what to ask about the intel driver need to be addressed?
Somewhere in there should be a counter running from 1 to 5, in Intel GMA drivers it references to "DTD_#" where # is the number. In the Intel Embedded drivers the same happens, although the registry key has another name.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 10:54:35 am
27" 15~48 kHz VeriFlat™
Autosync™

CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA Penta-Resolution
V-Freq. 47~90 Hz

those are the specs so yes I can do 16.5hz. Would you be able to give me the specifix modeline that in your option would best run pacman.

thanks again for your help sailor
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 11:15:04 am
Be VERY carefull :) I don't belive there are that many monitors that support 15kHz - 31kHz, most support only 15-16kHz, 24-25kHz, 31+kHz.

However here we have 3 modelines running 352x288 pixel resolution with real 55Hz, 57Hz or 60Hz

Code: [Select]
modeline '352x288 18,7kHz 60Hz' 8,68 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288 17,1kHz 55Hz' 7,96 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
Those are way higher than 16.5kHz ("extended resolution").

Although your monitor won't blow up if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 07, 2008, 03:27:09 pm
Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 07, 2008, 04:44:32 pm
Either set Direct3D Version to 8 in MAME, or try DirectDraw.

Ahem. gaijin HAS to use DirectDraw to properly display native resolutions. If you want to know why, gaijin, read the Ultimarc monitor faq.


Be VERY carefull :) I don't belive there are that many monitors that support 15kHz - 31kHz, most support only 15-16kHz, 24-25kHz, 31+kHz.

This one can. It spans something like 14.5-23khz, then jumps I think to 25-31.5, and maybe jumps again.


Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...

Not only a good test device, but also a good project monitor. What are you using soft15 with?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 05:41:02 pm
Ahem. gaijin HAS to use DirectDraw to properly display native resolutions. If you want to know why, gaijin, read the Ultimarc monitor faq.

Not really... Hey COULD be using cabMAME ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 07, 2008, 07:36:04 pm
Not really... Hey COULD be using cabMAME ;)

I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res. By the way, no more error. I have a suspicion it was a virus/malware thing that required an update in software.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 10:34:57 pm
I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?


Also I tried using new build of soft 15 and when I click on install user

give me 'runtime error 9' subscript out of range

I did have a usermodes.txt with

modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

Once I took out usermodes.txt It let me install user. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 08, 2008, 12:33:46 am
So I am now operational with a frontend on MAMEPP.  THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP with Soft15khz.  The hardest part was that I wasn't sure what was supposed to happen after the Soft15khz was installed.  Once it was clear that it was installed but not working, sending me off to get a newer Matrox driver, everything fell into place.

For the record, here's the steps to get it running on a Matrox Millennium II:

1. Install Matrox drivers. Version 5.82 is the final version for XP.
2. Reboot.
3. Install Soft15khz by running the program in a writeable directory and selecting the appropriate install (15, 25, 31, USER).
4. REBOOT.
5. When XP comes back up, it should no longer be visible on the computer monitor, if you get "out of range" that's good!
6. If you got "out of range" on your computer monitor after reboot when the windows desktop should have come up, switch the connector to your arcade monitor - it should be visible as a solid image now.  If you can still see windows on your computer monitor but not the arcade monitor, you may need to tweak Matrox montior settings.  Select the custom controls and UNCHECK "simple controls".  Select 640x480x32bit 60hz.
7. Once the desktop is visible, run mame from the command line with "mame - cc" to make a configuration file mame.ini.
8. Edit the newly created mame.ini file and replace "d3d" with "dd" so Mame will use DirectDraw instead of Direct3D.

At that point everything should work!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 01:34:19 am
I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res.
cabMAME doesn't stretch die image to full resolution as base mame does.

I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?
i just used the modeline already in soft15kHz and simply pulled up the pixel clock.

Also I tried using new build of soft 15 and when I click on install user

give me 'runtime error 9' subscript out of range
i'll look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 01:52:49 am
sh*t... another time that stupid decimal seperators...
build 38 is up.

i didn't convert it at ONE point... nice find bent :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 08, 2008, 06:22:05 am
sh*t... another time that stupid decimal seperators...

I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?

bent98 - if you are copying and pasting modelines from soft15Khz/this thread and pasting them into an online converter you need to note the decimal seperator.

I used an online modeline calculator which comes up with an incorrect result if you plug in:

modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

as it does not read the 17,7 correctly. You need to change it to 17.7 instead.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 08, 2008, 06:25:32 am
Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...

Not only a good test device, but also a good project monitor. What are you using soft15 with?

It's my plan to use it as a project monitor once I build a cab (several years in the planning so far...). I've actually got 2, but both need a bit of work and one does not appear to support the full scan range (does 15-17Khz, then jumps to 28khz or so). The other appears to support everything. Sadly I keep them stored away most of the time as they are absolutely massive and ridiculously heavy!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 07:20:26 am
I didnt get a chance to try to test build 38 but with the new build I still need to change  17,7 to 17.7 in usermodes.txt right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 07:41:09 am
I didnt get a chance to try to test build 38 but with the new build I still need to change  17,7 to 17.7 in usermodes.txt right?

Soft-15kHz will read both.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 09:24:43 am
Sailor the modeline creation is confusing to me. Is there somewhere I could read up on it further or maybe you can shed some additonal light on the subject. Still not sure on how you came up with those values for the three test modes you told me to try out for pacman.

Secondly the issue I was having with my geforce 7950 doubleing refresh on certain resolutions. The fix was using those alternate modelines remedy the doubling.  How were the created? listed below

modeline '240x240@58,795' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync (Soft 15 default)

modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync (nvidia geforce 7 friendly)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 09:32:41 am
Read http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor1.htm, it pretty much describes it all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 06:25:25 pm
I just tried out build 38. It installed with no errors.
I added thismodeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
to the usermodes.txt file
I did also see the resolution in forceware custom resolution tab. I tried running pacman and edited the pacman.ini file to reflect 352x288@57

I didnt seem to work. I did not remove orginal modeline 352x288 custom15khz.txt.

I think you said you can have two same resolutions co-exsist.

What am I doing wrong sailor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 09, 2008, 02:35:23 am
I did also see the resolution in forceware custom resolution tab. I tried running pacman and edited the pacman.ini file to reflect 352x288@57

I didnt seem to work. I did not remove orginal modeline 352x288 custom15khz.txt.

I think you said you can have two same resolutions co-exsist.

What am I doing wrong sailor?
Wait... I'll just take a look in my magical orb...
Don't know what you did :)

If you see the resolution in the forceware you should also see TWO refresh rates (57Hz and 60Hz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 09, 2008, 08:07:48 am
Yes I do see two.

I then edited pacman ini and updated the resolution to all reflect the proper refresh rate 352x288@57

than ran pacman

Once I ran PACMAN it seem to run it at the default 352x288  rez. Is there something im missing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 09, 2008, 08:36:07 am
Try running MAME with -verbose and look what it says.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 11, 2008, 08:53:33 am
I removed the orginal res in custom15.txt and then it tried to grab the custom rez u made.

Only thing was monitor couldnt sync to it.

o well
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 11, 2008, 03:52:16 pm
I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res.
cabMAME doesn't stretch die image to full resolution as base mame does.

Um...when I select D3D on cabmame, I get a very little image.


Here's a question for you: I notice different timings of the same resolution will shift the image around the screen. Is it possible to create a timing specific to one's hardware that will minimize the amount of monitor adjustment of the image?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 11, 2008, 03:56:01 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 11, 2008, 07:55:02 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.

That would be great...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 11, 2008, 08:43:57 pm
yes it would
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 12, 2008, 08:18:44 pm
Ah. I think Advancemame tries to do this to some degree, but I think to get something very efficient it takes setting the rc file right. An app would sure bridge the gap. Thank you.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gique on February 17, 2008, 12:52:28 am
I have a cabinet set up with a rotated monitor (vertical)  - is it possible to set my pc display to be rotated 90 degrees via video card settings, and then Soft 15khz to set 240x320  so that windows is viewed correctly in low resolution on the rotated screen?

this isnt a mame related issue, it's for a custom project

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 17, 2008, 06:46:34 am
That should work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gique on February 17, 2008, 03:34:35 pm
should i attempt to rotate the display 1st, then switch the resolution, or the other way..

secondly I've been having problems trying to get the modeline calculated - the calculators i've used wont accept that resolution

can anyone assist? 240x320 (or 240x321) @ 15khz

thanks as always.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 17, 2008, 03:41:37 pm
nanana, keep the default resolution 321x240, as vertical displays work exactly the same way as horizontal ones.
just the image get rotated by the graphics adapter.

just select rotated 90° in your adapters display options.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 03:42:07 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.

Hey,
Any thoughts/progress on this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 04:21:08 pm
Didn't go any further than some theoretical test on that yet.
Still waiting for some new cards to test out.

p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 25, 2008, 06:03:16 pm
p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)

That's about the lower limit for proper native res, yes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 06:05:33 pm
Yeah. WITHOUT custom resolutions you can't go below 352x288.

To get some lower resolutions you'll need a custom15kHz.txt
Code: [Select]
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 08:23:10 pm
p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)

Ah, I wondered if newer cards were going to end up increasing the pclock floor....

powerstrip used to have a 10Mhz pclock floor inbuilt, and then a 5Mhz one - it should be a bit lower than that now, can't rememner what we ended up with. I thought it was my cards hitting the floor for a while.

I know plenty of radeon cards - 9700/x800 etc... seem to happy to go to down 5Mhz pclock or lower without very large sync widths to fake it, perhaps it would be good to keep a record which modern cards can't cut it.

I think the lowest resolution must be 240x192 for mrdo, or something similar.... I think you need to go under 5Mhz pclock for that (or use massive syncs...)


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 09:13:45 pm
Incidentally, I meant to post this before in case anyone found it useful. 

Here is a list of all the resolutions and refresh rates used in mame (0.123) according to listinfo.xml. I've put up 2 lists - one for vertical and one for horizontal, it excludes all clones, and counts the number of games that use a particular resolution & refresh.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77103.0

I've linked to a seperate post, as I realised it takes up a few screens worth(!).

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 10:16:23 pm
As for those 192 line modes, I don't really know how they work with 15kHz, as they would need something like 90Hz to get near. The only think I could imagine would be actually 192pixels per line, 240 lines per frame.
*EDIT* Actually it IS exactly that way. (If you double the 192 pix width you end up with 384x240)

Hm... Some resolutions are pretty much bogus...
704x513@60Hz (nclubv3) is just the resolution the system (ST-V) could output, but the game itselt just outputs 384x224 :(
1024x1024 also seems pretty much like some kind of "don't know" resolution.

671x216 is quite weird, but should fit nice into 720x480 or 640x240

504x296 should be possible, maybe added as 512x296 or 512x300 for better compatiblity.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 26, 2008, 08:13:45 am
Yes, there are definitely some errors.

All games which change resolution would be incorrect I imagine (e.g. PSX based) games and some systems (as you spotted) are just wrong.

Narc was wrong in the last version of mame, along with all the other midyunit.c games, which appear to have now been doubled from 27Hz to 54Hz (more likely). The midtunit.c games appear to be suffering the same fate. Not sure if its worth submitting a fix, I've not looked in the drivers to see where the data like this is actually stored. I did post something about this a while back on the mameworld mametesters forum.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 26, 2008, 07:05:29 pm
Quick Query: What is the impact in vanilla mame of running at refresh rate slightly higher than the original game?

e.g. say the game is 256x240 @ 59.18Hz, and you run it at 256x240 @ 60Hz?

I know -syncrefresh will sync the video speed to whatever refresh rate you are running at (i.e. a slight speed up in this case) and that the sound will stutter - hence the sound sync hack in cabmame. (incidentally has anyone submitted that hack to mamedev? If they are providing an option to lock the video emulation surely it makes sense to lock the sound to it?)

But if you don't use -syncrefresh, I presume you will get video stutters too? Either tearing or a repeated frame? Have I missed anything?

I can't really see the point of -syncrefresh in normal mame, as it only works if you have the *exact* refresh to match the game - in which case, you presumably don't need -syncrefresh anyway as your already running at the right speed???

Sorry if this is dumb, it's late and I'm not thinking straight...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 26, 2008, 09:12:39 pm
As far as I know, without syncrefresh, MAME would either skip frames once in a while (if you have vsync an/or tripplebuffer enabled) or simple show tearing (without vsync and tripplebuffer).

About the SoundHack, actually it's a "dirty" hack that only works on Windows.
Aaron invented "refreshspeed" after my soundhack, but it doesn't work too good.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 27, 2008, 03:08:03 pm
As for those 192 line modes, I don't really know how they work with 15kHz, as they would need something like 90Hz to get near. The only think I could imagine would be actually 192pixels per line, 240 lines per frame.
*EDIT* Actually it IS exactly that way. (If you double the 192 pix width you end up with 384x240)

Yeah, I notice some advmame configurations will do Mr. Do horizontal games at 90hz. (Others will double the horizontal scan rate. For some reason, the vertical Mr. Do games displayed horizontally aren't ever a problem.) However, these orignally ran at 15/60. With the avga/soft15, I use 240x240.

For most games, regardless if I'm running at different scan rate or refresh (though, one of them will be close - either 15khz or 60hz), I don't have stuttering issues, video or sound. It's only some vertical games (usually 224x288) when displayed horizontally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on February 29, 2008, 09:35:15 am
I am fed up with Ati catalyst drivers, I tried to install the new 8.2 and all hell broke loose, a full 2 hours later I installed the original 6.2 that came on my cd but it keeps complaining that launchpad language something or other failed on boot.

Will soft 15 work with omega dirvers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 29, 2008, 09:49:53 am
should work, yes
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 29, 2008, 11:02:32 am
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on February 29, 2008, 11:16:05 am
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Thanks
I will move to omega drivers this weekend
Good bye catalyst junkware.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 29, 2008, 06:45:33 pm
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Thanks
I will move to omega drivers this weekend
Good bye catalyst junkware.

I've had good success just installing the display drivers, and leaving the Catylist Control Centre alone.  There is a seperate download on the ATI/AMD site.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 08:25:06 am
Updated info.c to output raw video parameters (pixclock, htotal,
hbend, hbstart, vtotal, vbend, vbstart) via -listxml if they have
been given. [couriersud]



I saw this added to MAME 123u3 change file. Sailor what does this mean for us? Does this give us the ablility to get a more accurate display?

Also Ummon shared this link with me today
       
 http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=144515&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 08:35:36 am
that does mean I'll post a BIG "usermodes.txt" for ATI users soon ;)

*EDIT* scrap that. those "raw video parameters" pretty much sucks ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 10:23:43 am
Now I am really trying to get that 3000 byte buffer increased in the nvidia driver. sailor do you think its possible you could figure out how to do that?

I left serveral messages with the omega driver team and had gotten no response.

I just made a thread in the software forum hoping someone might know how to do this. I really need to have a highend 3d card in my arcade cabinet to run future pinball and some of the new frontends and vector based software like AAE will require it as well.

Is there any possiblilty you would be able to figure out how to increase the buffer size in nivida drivers?

Pretty please??? :'(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 11:11:18 am
Hmm, a huge number of the drivers don't include all the extra video data..... still, quite a lot do, although as seen before there are definately some errors about what is reported by mame/in listxml vs what video modes mame actually uses......

I've attached a list of all the <display.....> elements extracted from the 0.123u3 mame xml...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 11:14:18 am
Yeah actually it outputs the raw video parameter MAME uses internal, not those the arcade hardware uses.
NeoGeo would be the best example.

I'll generate a list with some "other" way ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 11:18:43 am
Another possiblity was getting a ATI 3850HD card. I saw sailor you tested a 2400hd. Wondering how this 3850Hd would react.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 12:01:18 pm
Don't know too much about the "omega" drivers, but I thought they were just repackaged nvidia drivers, with probably a load of custom registry/inf changes.

I suspect what you need changed lies within the binary driver, so you may need to go back to nvidia to get it sorted.

(NB if omega roll-their-own drivers then great, but I'm guessing not)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 01:23:40 pm
Yea Nvidia cant fix bugs from last year , I doubt they will tackle this one. If I knew 3850HD worked I would just get one of those
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:45:50 pm
Err... lol :)

I've just tinkered together some "batch modeline generator" for MAME...


First, two screens, without words ;D

(http://images.arianchen.de/misc/lcd01.jpg)
(http://images.arianchen.de/misc/lcd02.jpg)

Yes, thats one of those mahjong lcd resolutions (480x64)...
Pretty funny this actually works!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:46:03 pm
Here's a 15kHz only usermodes.txt.
You'll get an overflow error with Build 38, so for the time being you can fool around with a temporary build 39 ( http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/soft15khz_temp.zip )
Code: [Select]
modeline "288x224@61" 6,050909 288 304 352 384 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,420606 256 272 312 344 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x236@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@61" 4,664242 224 240 264 296 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@57" 6,670368 321 336 392 424 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x64@60" 10,0608 480 512 576 640 64 130 229 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60" 13,45632 640 688 760 856 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 208 224 250 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@61" 5,672727 272 288 328 360 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,052147 288 304 352 384 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x480@30" 10,458 496 528 600 664 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "640x480@30" 13,482 640 688 760 856 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "1024x480@30" 21,546 1024 1088 1240 1368 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "768x480@30" 16,128 768 816 928 1024 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x192@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@61" 5,030339 240 256 288 320 192 214 246 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59" 5,41572 256 272 312 344 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x448@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,416555 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x224@60" 5,427847 260 276 312 344 224 238 258 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x248@59" 7,932128 376 408 440 504 248 254 262 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x230@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 230 240 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x184@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 184 210 249 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "223x240@50" 4,662 223 239 264 296 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60" 7,426572 352 384 408 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "480x480@30" 10,08 480 512 576 640 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@59" 5,41572 256 272 312 344 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60" 5,031446 240 256 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,423548 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x252@57" 5,047376 240 256 288 320 252 260 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57" 5,03424 240 256 288 320 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57" 5,425929 256 272 312 344 224 242 269 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@57" 5,04848 240 256 288 320 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55" 5,41112 256 272 312 344 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55" 8,05376 384 416 448 512 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x248@55" 8,05376 384 416 448 512 248 260 280 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55" 8,056338 384 416 448 512 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@55" 10,6964 512 544 616 680 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@61" 5,413872 256 272 312 344 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x224@60" 4,90464 232 248 280 312 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x232@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59" 5,419032 256 272 312 344 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x208@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x232@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57" 8,05674 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58" 8,06656 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,675876 321 336 392 424 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x232@59" 6,675876 321 336 392 424 232 244 261 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x200@60" 13,45632 640 688 760 856 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x240@60" 5,53344 264 280 320 352 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x240@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x240@60" 5,40768 260 276 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@55" 6,677977 321 336 392 424 240 256 279 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58" 5,41972 256 272 312 344 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,679272 321 336 392 424 240 248 263 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,67538 321 336 392 424 240 248 261 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@58" 6,686004 321 336 392 424 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58" 8,073665 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@58" 6,686004 321 336 392 424 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x239@58" 6,686004 318 334 392 424 239 251 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x238@60" 6,172115 294 310 360 392 238 246 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "316x239@60" 6,675961 316 332 392 424 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x240@60" 6,172115 292 308 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x231@60" 6,172115 292 308 360 392 231 241 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "276x240@60" 5,794231 276 292 336 368 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60" 8,060518 384 416 448 512 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x245@57" 7,55136 360 392 416 480 245 255 271 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@57" 7,55136 360 392 416 480 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x240@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60" 7,5456 360 392 416 480 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60" 8,062992 384 416 448 512 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,428152 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,428267 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x210@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 210 228 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x208@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@59" 10,72855 512 544 616 680 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,671322 321 336 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,675572 321 336 392 424 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,797196 321 337 400 432 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x224@60" 8,67744 416 448 488 552 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "704x513@30" 14,742 704 752 840 936 513 517 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@57" 5,160096 248 264 296 328 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55" 5,423631 256 272 312 344 256 266 283 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@56" 5,423631 256 272 312 344 256 264 276 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 232 246 265 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57" 5,036765 240 256 288 320 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57" 5,411237 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@58" 6,689024 321 336 392 424 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x240@58" 6,689024 319 335 392 424 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x256@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@61" 5,042424 240 256 288 320 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x224@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@54" 6,433344 304 320 376 408 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x224@60" 7,92288 376 408 440 504 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@59" 6,427224 304 320 376 408 256 260 265 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,428031 256 272 312 344 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x256@57" 5,160096 248 264 296 328 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,412429 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x236@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x225@60" 7,060406 336 352 416 448 225 237 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x464@30" 10,08 480 512 576 640 464 484 515 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x224@60" 5,418 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x232@60" 10,43808 496 528 600 664 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "255x232@60" 5,28192 255 271 304 336 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@45" 10,69978 512 544 616 680 240 276 331 349 -hsync -vsync
modeline "160x200@60" 3,40412 160 176 184 216 200 220 253 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x231@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 231 239 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x232@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,418 256 272 312 344 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x255@61" 6,676758 319 335 392 424 255 255 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 232 240 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60" 6,16224 296 312 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60" 7,060337 336 352 416 448 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x228@60" 10,72555 512 544 616 680 228 240 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60" 13,49029 640 688 760 856 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x240@60" 14,12067 672 720 800 896 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60" 7,564647 360 392 416 480 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,414702 256 272 312 344 224 236 251 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@57" 5,03424 240 256 288 320 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@61" 5,420606 256 272 312 344 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,413872 256 272 312 344 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x216@61" 5,672727 272 288 328 360 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@61" 5,042424 240 256 288 320 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x216@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,675189 321 336 392 424 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x432@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@57" 5,414522 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@56" 5,03552 240 256 288 320 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57" 5,414064 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,41603 256 272 312 344 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "720x241@60" 15,13367 720 768 864 960 241 249 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@59" 5,41671 256 272 312 344 256 260 264 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@50" 4,662 224 240 264 296 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x192@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@56" 5,413184 256 272 312 344 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@56" 8,056832 384 416 448 512 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@56" 5,413184 256 272 312 344 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "399x253@55" 8,306472 399 431 464 528 253 265 281 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@57" 8,443608 400 432 472 536 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@28" 13,49099 640 688 760 856 480 504 541 553 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "400x256@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@50" 5,418 256 272 312 344 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@57" 5,048213 240 256 288 320 248 258 273 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@54" 6,685632 321 336 392 424 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@61" 6,666666 321 336 392 424 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x224@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54" 5,424192 256 272 312 344 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,424192 256 272 312 344 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54" 5,42261 256 272 312 344 224 248 281 293 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "342x240@60" 7,16832 342 358 424 456 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x223@60" 6,66528 319 335 392 424 223 235 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,688091 321 336 392 424 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@55" 5,413121 256 272 312 344 224 244 274 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x240@60" 7,92288 376 408 440 504 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512@30" 21,546 1024 1088 1240 1368 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "368x240@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,665534 321 336 392 424 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x240@59" 10,06118 480 512 576 640 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@59" 8,048947 384 416 448 512 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x432@30" 12,096 576 608 704 768 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "272x232@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x224@60" 9,432 448 480 536 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57" 8,064757 384 416 448 512 240 252 272 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60" 9,432 448 480 536 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x232@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x236@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "344x240@60" 7,16832 344 360 424 456 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "351x251@60" 7,29408 351 367 432 464 251 255 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60" 10,70673 512 544 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x234@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 234 244 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x224@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@58" 6,436608 304 320 376 408 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@58" 6,689024 321 336 392 424 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x248@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@60" 7,5456 360 392 416 480 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@58" 7,57248 360 392 416 480 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@58" 6,436608 304 320 376 408 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "380x224@60" 7,92288 380 412 440 504 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@55" 6,66952 321 336 392 424 240 256 278 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x224@60" 10,6896 508 540 616 680 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x240@60" 10,6896 508 540 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x239@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x239@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@57" 10,69776 512 544 616 680 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x224@60" 10,43808 496 528 600 664 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x190@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 190 214 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x224@60" 5,53344 264 280 320 352 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x448@30" 7,686 368 400 424 488 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "400x248@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "464x224@60" 9,68352 464 496 552 616 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x224@60" 10,0608 480 512 576 640 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@61" 10,70768 512 544 616 680 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "432x224@59" 9,073728 432 464 512 576 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@50" 6,667661 321 336 392 424 256 276 306 316 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,412326 256 272 312 344 240 256 282 290 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,415627 256 272 312 344 240 256 283 291 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@56" 6,672321 321 336 392 424 240 254 275 282 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@58" 7,698688 368 400 424 488 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@54" 7,442496 352 384 408 472 256 268 286 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x240@60" 6,66528 318 334 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@58" 7,067648 336 352 416 448 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@50" 6,678 321 336 392 424 200 238 296 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "366x240@54" 7,694784 366 398 424 488 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x216@60" 14,13817 671 719 800 896 216 232 255 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x216@60" 14,13181 671 719 800 896 216 232 255 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x272@50" 14,112 671 719 800 896 272 286 308 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x280@50" 8,442 400 432 472 536 280 292 309 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x248@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 248 260 275 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "504x296@50" 10,584 504 536 608 672 296 302 312 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x300@49" 8,432614 400 432 472 536 300 308 318 322 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@62" 10,71 512 544 616 680 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60" 5,408805 256 272 312 344 240 248 260 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x222@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 222 236 255 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,422892 256 272 312 344 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "200x240@50" 4,158 200 216 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@50" 10,71 512 544 616 680 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "394x240@60" 8,30016 394 426 464 528 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x224@60" 6,16224 296 312 360 392 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x216@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "322x241@60" 6,792452 322 338 400 432 241 249 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@60" 6,666666 321 336 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x256@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@69" 6,6899 321 336 392 424 200 210 223 228 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x236@62" 10,70403 512 544 616 680 236 242 251 254 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x236@61" 10,70098 512 544 616 680 236 244 253 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x256@60" 4,90464 232 248 280 312 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@53" 5,411317 256 272 312 344 224 248 286 298 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x256@60" 8,67744 416 448 488 552 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x200@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@50" 5,04 240 256 288 320 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x200@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x232@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x248@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "208x240@60" 4,4016 208 224 248 280 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x232@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "392x256@60" 8,1744 392 424 456 520 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x240@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "184x176@60" 3,89856 184 200 216 248 176 204 248 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x256@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "544x200@60" 11,44416 544 576 664 728 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@58" 10,72768 512 544 616 680 256 262 269 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x512@30" 5,418 256 272 312 344 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "544x480@30" 11,466 544 576 664 728 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "294x294@50" 6,165359 294 310 360 392 294 300 311 314 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x294@51" 6,182352 294 310 360 392 294 300 307 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x224@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x160@60" 5,045779 240 256 288 320 160 194 247 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "192x216@60" 4,02432 192 208 224 256 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "544x242@60" 11,47305 544 576 664 728 242 250 259 263 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:46:20 pm
And this is what MAME spits out on my Radeon 9600 Pro when I try to run Pac-Man :)...
Code: [Select]
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = RADEON 9600 SERIES   
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   223x 240@ 50Hz -> 86.161882
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 240@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 252@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 256@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 224@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 55Hz -> 151.376143
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 1622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 1717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 681.465033
   321x 224@ 60Hz -> 652.053269
   321x 240@ 57Hz -> 237.105269
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 642.641503
   352x 240@ 60Hz -> 634.987183
   376x 248@ 59Hz -> 392.570492
   384x 240@ 60Hz -> 631.491061
   384x 248@ 55Hz -> 159.640606
   384x 256@ 55Hz -> 159.128081
   384x 256@ 60Hz -> 630.393442
   480x  64@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   480x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   496x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.792041
   512x 224@ 60Hz -> 627.085948
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 626.790882
   512x 256@ 55Hz -> 155.267194
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   512x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.720506
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 625.351531
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.283540
   768x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.998356
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.648553
Direct3D: Mode selected =  288x 224@ 61Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 288x224
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:48:32 pm
So long SPAM, short conclusion...
It theoretically works, but practically we should stick to a "reasonable" amount of resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 03:14:32 pm
So long SPAM, short conclusion...
It theoretically works, but practically we should stick to a "reasonable" amount of resolutions.

Awesome work. Exactly what I was hoping would come out of all of this - nice one!

I'm also pleased the current algorithms in mame can select the right refresh/res as well. (incidentally does mame choose well for games which report incorrect resolutions - e.g. ST-V games? And how does it select resolutions for games that change on the fly?)

And yes, adding all is probably overkill, but I actually think getting an exact refresh rate is as important as getting an exact resolution. I know your windows-only sync hack works well (cabmame) but that still relies on someone keeping the hack alive for all future versions of mame....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 03:26:33 pm
As for now, the exact modeline is not needed, just one with the right "active" pixels and the right refresh rate.

MAME has an internal object called "visarea" per Screen.
This includes width, height and refresh rate for the game.
On StartUp MAME chooses the mode that matches the visarea most.

If a game switches resolutions, MAME internally updates the values in the visarea object.
Thats where my "changeres" hack comes to play. Everytime the visarea changes, changeres simply resets the video output and MAME chooses a new (matching) resolution.

As for the "ingame" resolution, I can provide a small hack for 0.123u3 that displays the current visarea values in game information (MAY be included in 0.123u4) instead of the "default" values.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: timofonic on March 02, 2008, 05:12:18 am
Hello.

Are there an equivalent thing for this in Linux? I see modelines, that's commonly used on X Windows.

Regards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 02, 2008, 05:16:34 am
There should be various solutions for linux that support modelines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 02, 2008, 04:46:29 pm
(original question) SS, how are you able to use D3D with switchres?  With regular mame, it's all blurry. On cabmame, it just produces a very small picture.

EDIT:

On cabmame .123, D3D behaves just like using DD. I'm curious, how did you get it this way?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 02, 2008, 06:03:32 pm
Per default MAME (in Direct3D) scales the image by a floating point value.

Example:

384 pix width -> 800 pix resolution = factor ~2,084
224 pix height -> 600 pix resolution = factor ~2,678

MAME then chooses the smaller factor (in our example ~2,084) and voila...
384 * ~2,084 = 800
224 * ~2,084 = 467

800x467 pix image in a 800x600 resolution.

--

CabMAME basically does the same, however only uses integer values.

384 -> 800 = ~2
224 -> 600 = ~3

MAME chooses the smaller factor (in this case 2) and voila...
384 * 2 = 768 pixel width
224 * 2 = 448 pixel width

768x448 pixel image in a 800x600 resolution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on March 03, 2008, 06:48:30 pm
I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 03, 2008, 07:17:04 pm
Per default MAME (in Direct3D) scales the image by a floating point value.

CabMAME basically does the same, however only uses integer values.[/url]

Yeah, that's what I thought. So, essentially you hacked the D3D feature to support integer values?...or?


I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks

I think there's something in the drivers in relation to Windows that won't allow it. My 6200 isn't similarly restricted with the AdvanceMAME drivers. Which brings me to ask this question of SS: notice this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=30474.msg257316#msg257316). Is this linux-specific, or could something similar in Windows be done?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 03, 2008, 08:06:11 pm
As far as I know there are really restrictions in the ForceWare, however those only regard interlace features.

An older GeForce2 MX for example...
With driver 12.41 it did actually support interlace (via powerstrip).
With driver 66.92 it did NOT support interlace (neither powerstrip nor soft15khz).

Hm...
There are some flags in the NVidia driver to doublescan low resolution, but that cause it with but 288 line and 240 line resolutions. If it really runs at 31kHz / 100Hz the pixelclock would be exactly the double as it would need...
As long as I can't reproduce here, it's like shooting in the fog.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 03, 2008, 08:47:43 pm
Salior have you finalized a custom15khz.txt file?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 05, 2008, 03:54:40 pm
As far as I know there are really restrictions in the ForceWare, however those only regard interlace features.

An older GeForce2 MX for example...
With driver 12.41 it did actually support interlace (via powerstrip).
With driver 66.92 it did NOT support interlace (neither powerstrip nor soft15khz).

Hm...
There are some flags in the NVidia driver to doublescan low resolution, but that cause it with but 288 line and 240 line resolutions. If it really runs at 31kHz / 100Hz the pixelclock would be exactly the double as it would need...
As long as I can't reproduce here, it's like shooting in the fog.

That's what I meant. The forceware drivers. But with older Nvidia cards, I use driver versions after 66.92, and have no problem with low pclocks. I notice my 6200 will do 640x224 at 15khz, but anything lower it won't with the nvidia drivers. With the advancemame svgalib drivers, it'll do anything I throw at it. I tried to adjust the low-level settings of the bios with Rivatuner, with no success. I tried, or at least thought of adjusting the forceware, but there's no tutorial for Rivatuner, so I didn't really understand what to do. I've never liked powerstrip, but I haven't given it a test, either. Maybe I will.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on March 05, 2008, 11:31:35 pm
I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks

As a follow up to my earlier post, I was able to get 352x288 to run @ 15kHz after trying a few modeline.  I think the pixel clock determines whether or not the card would switch to 15kHz or stay at 31kHz w/ 2x refresh, though I'm not sure.

Here's the one that works:

Modeline "352x288@50" 9.55 352 392 520 608 288 289 293 316 +hsync +vsync

I was also able to come up with a 800x600 modeline that doesn't give me any flickers in windows.  I couldn't use the default 800x600 that came with Soft-15kHz because it flickers too much.  Here's the modeline for my no-flicker 800x600:

Modeline "800x600@60" 40 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync

I hope this will come in handy to someone with the same monitor/video card combo as I do ...

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: milhouse on March 07, 2008, 10:28:00 am
Has anyone had trouble with NBA Jam using this?  It worked fine with my ArcadeVGA but I am getting an out of range error on my monitor using Soft-15khz and a different video card.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 07, 2008, 03:49:46 pm
Has anyone had trouble with NBA Jam using this?  It worked fine with my ArcadeVGA but I am getting an out of range error on my monitor using Soft-15khz and a different video card.

Run 'mame -verbose' from the command line to see what resolution mame is picking when it runs NBAjam. Then you can force the game to use a different resolution or remove the resoluton from soft15Khz as your monitor does not support it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 08, 2008, 12:23:22 pm
hey everybody,  I'm having pretty good luck with this so far.  I'm using a Kortek/Betson Kortek KT-2914 trisync, Ati Radeon X1550 on XP using the latest Catalyst drivers.   I do have a few questions though.. How can I be sure if a mode is unsupported by my monitor or whether its my video card?   none of the 15khz modes lower than 448 x 240 will work except 240x240.  Most times I get an out of sync message on my monitor but sometimes the screen is just black.   Also, what program are you guys using to calculate the modeline info?  I'd like to modify some of the existing mode that do work to run at 60hz.   Also, I'd like to add 1024x600 (the 1024x768 without scrolling) but Im confused about how to do that.  Thanks guys! and thanks SailorSat this programs is awesome :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 08, 2008, 06:35:19 pm
Attached below are the SVGA and XGA real 60hz modelines. As for you not getting the bulk of 15khz resolutions, I don't know. I think the monitor is quite capable of the modes. I just got an X1600 XT and it works with the stock 15khz modes just fine. (Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be compatible with Advancemame....)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 08, 2008, 11:28:52 pm
S.S. - I just tried to install the three 352x288 user modes you posted above but I'm not seeing them in the drop-down list in Mame32/cabMame. I have the txt file name customusermodes. Before that, I tried customeuser and usermodes. None have worked as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 09, 2008, 12:28:41 am
Hm...
It's usermodes.txt
Should work though.
Too bad drivers don't spit out error logs if the don't like something :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 09, 2008, 10:19:21 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

I dont use a J-pac

how do I go about enjoying a doubled bios output like the feature of the J-pac as stated above?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 09, 2008, 10:33:23 pm
Hm...
It's usermodes.txt
Should work though.
Too bad drivers don't spit out error logs if the don't like something :)

I dunno. However, I then added a custom15khz file to the directory with only the first (18.7khz) of those three you provided, and soft15 seems to have substituted it for the stock mode. The mode looks really good. Almost perfect display. (Incidentally, this is the same as or very similar to a mode generated on my display in Advancemame. I kinda wonder why you never decided to tackle further development of this build...)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 11, 2008, 03:12:54 am
Attached below are the SVGA and XGA real 60hz modelines. As for you not getting the bulk of 15khz resolutions, I don't know. I think the monitor is quite capable of the modes. I just got an X1600 XT and it works with the stock 15khz modes just fine. (Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be compatible with Advancemame....)

Thanks!  I'll give them a try and report back.. I wish I could tell if its the monitor or the video card.  The OSD just blinks as though its out of range but it could be the video card glitching out..  If I had an oscilliscope handy I could maybe verify the signal coming out of the video card..  Its odd that 240x240 works and most of the other 15khz modes don't..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 11, 2008, 09:54:03 am
Hey, I've got a nVidia GeForce 5950. For some reason my WG 25k7913 doesn't display anything when I'm using my hacked VGA cable. I've tried setting my resolution at 640x480 @ 60Hz.

Nothing seems to be working.

Thanks,
Xb0x3r
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 12, 2008, 12:29:33 pm
Hey, I've got a nVidia GeForce 5950. For some reason my WG 25k7913 doesn't display anything when I'm using my hacked VGA cable. I've tried setting my resolution at 640x480 @ 60Hz.

Nothing seems to be working.

Thanks,
Xb0x3r

Sounds like you need to post this as its own thread. Doesn't seem related to this one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 12, 2008, 01:36:04 pm
Is the nVidia GeForce 5950 supported in soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 02:25:03 pm
It should.

Have you tried it with a normal VGA Monitor? These should shut off as soon as windows boots (or display garbage ^^)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 03:12:15 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

I dont use a J-pac

how do I go about enjoying a doubled bios output like the feature of the J-pac as stated above?



I still dont understand how you use a second card or this j-pac feature thing in order to get past the non 15k screens safely and I am to learry to try soft 15k until I know what to do safely.

could you please explain a little better on what needs to be done and can be done becuase the description of how it is done is a little bland.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 03:25:12 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 07:00:18 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.


You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 12, 2008, 07:06:33 pm
And this is what MAME spits out on my Radeon 9600 Pro when I try to run Pac-Man :)...
Code: [Select]
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = RADEON 9600 SERIES   
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   223x 240@ 50Hz -> 86.161882
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 240@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 252@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 256@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 224@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 55Hz -> 151.376143
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 1622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 1717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 681.465033
   321x 224@ 60Hz -> 652.053269
   321x 240@ 57Hz -> 237.105269
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 642.641503
   352x 240@ 60Hz -> 634.987183
   376x 248@ 59Hz -> 392.570492
   384x 240@ 60Hz -> 631.491061
   384x 248@ 55Hz -> 159.640606
   384x 256@ 55Hz -> 159.128081
   384x 256@ 60Hz -> 630.393442
   480x  64@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   480x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   496x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.792041
   512x 224@ 60Hz -> 627.085948
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 626.790882
   512x 256@ 55Hz -> 155.267194
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   512x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.720506
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 625.351531
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.283540
   768x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.998356
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.648553
Direct3D: Mode selected =  288x 224@ 61Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 288x224

Sailor I am getting an ATI x1950xt which will allow me to add unlimted amount of resolutions to usermodes.txt

My question is this. I saw that you are using d3d with cabmame and it picks up correct rez and refresh.

Will this work with  regular mame and direct draw, switch rez, no hwstrech or do you have to run cabmame and d3d for mame to select the right rez and refresh from usermodes.txt. I am axious to get ATI card and add all those resolutions to it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 07:22:47 pm
Should work with baseline MAME too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 12, 2008, 07:28:57 pm
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 09:17:22 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.


You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 12, 2008, 10:38:44 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can not. The original statement was "You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC)." Which means that IF you have a JPAC you can either 1) Filter out the Bios Screens or 2) get a doubled image instead.
He then commented that his Hantarex Polo monitor actually dealt with Bios screens the same way without a jpac - showing them doubled. Not all monitors will do this, no idea which others will.

Quote
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can not turn off the bios screens, and - without a Jpac - they will be at 31Khz. Therefore, if you install 2nd gfx card (e.g. PCI), tell the bios to use the PCI card first, and then tell windows to only use your AGP/PCIe card and ignore the PCI one, and then do not connect any monitor to the PCI card - you will be not see any bios screens at all. The "main" AGP/PCIe card will not be activated at all until windows boots - and start at 15Khz.

So basically the bios is still going ahead at 31Khz, but on a card you are not using. A bit long-winded, but you can use a $10 PCI card etc...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 13, 2008, 12:39:35 am
gotcha now.

I thought she was saying there was some type of app or software that would mimmic the j-pac like feature and I was wondering where or how to get it lol.

as for the double video card set-up I completely understand that now also and am geeked becuase I have 6 older pci video card's that are all good canidates.

my next question is what are the steps to get it working right.

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

the reason for all my questions is I dont want to harm my arcade monitor so I wanted to be sure and understood it all first.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 01:40:12 am
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Sure it works with direct draw, how you think the ArcadeVGA works? :)

You have to uninstall and reinstall soft-15khz anytime you change your customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt file.

---

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

right, you can double check if 15khz is working by keeping the VGA monitor connected after soft-15khz installation, it should go "out of sync" (or display garbage) as soon as windows starts. then simply switch the cables.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 13, 2008, 08:19:24 am
Salior to test with that big list of usermodes.txt I need to upgrade to Build 39. Any bugs with it or is it stable?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 08:56:01 am
I have an nvidia geforce 7800 gtx and a WG D9400 monitor. After installing soft 15k, I am unable to see any of the new resolutions using quickres, and when mame tries to play a game using any res below 640x480, it throws an error stating that it's an unsupported resolution. I'm not sure if this has already been answered in this thread, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Must play games in native res!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:39:32 am
Salior to test with that big list of usermodes.txt I need to upgrade to Build 39. Any bugs with it or is it stable?

I've just added a higher resolution limit (before it was 256, now 32768) and some minor warning messages.
Should be stable :)


I have an nvidia geforce 7800 gtx and a WG D9400 monitor. After installing soft 15k, I am unable to see any of the new resolutions using quickres, and when mame tries to play a game using any res below 640x480, it throws an error stating that it's an unsupported resolution. I'm not sure if this has already been answered in this thread, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Must play games in native res!
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 12:14:13 pm
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?

I think 97.61 or something like that. I'm at work now so I will confirm when I get home. I have been reading through this thread while at work today and came across some potential solutions. One nvidia user posted a similar problem, but after he reinstalled soft 15k, it went away. I also see that I'm using a pretty old forceware, so I'll update that as well. I'll post my results after I do these things.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 09:28:18 pm
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?

I think 97.61 or something like that. I'm at work now so I will confirm when I get home. I have been reading through this thread while at work today and came across some potential solutions. One nvidia user posted a similar problem, but after he reinstalled soft 15k, it went away. I also see that I'm using a pretty old forceware, so I'll update that as well. I'll post my results after I do these things.

Updated to the latest forceware, reinstalled soft 15k, rebooted. using quickres, most of the resolutions were now gone, except for 3: 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 10:41:04 pm
Hm... Are you using Clone mode or something like that?
As for 640x480, did it output 15kHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 13, 2008, 10:43:27 pm
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Sure it works with direct draw, how you think the ArcadeVGA works? :)

You have to uninstall and reinstall soft-15khz anytime you change your customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt file.

---

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

right, you can double check if 15khz is working by keeping the VGA monitor connected after soft-15khz installation, it should go "out of sync" (or display garbage) as soon as windows starts. then simply switch the cables.

awsome thanks for the help I will let you know how a ATI 512mg AGP card turns out  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 10:49:41 pm
Hm... Are you using Clone mode or something like that?
As for 640x480, did it output 15kHz?

Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:01:56 pm
Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Yeah they all should show up with 60Hz (which is vertical refresh btw.), but you shouldn't be able to actually SEE anything on your VGA Monitor now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 11:46:34 pm
Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Yeah they all should show up with 60Hz (which is vertical refresh btw.), but you shouldn't be able to actually SEE anything on your VGA Monitor now.

Why not? My monitor is capable of displaying up to 800x600.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:50:34 pm
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 14, 2008, 01:26:08 am
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick  ;)

 :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 14, 2008, 08:48:24 am
One last question sailor since I dont have my new ati card to test. When you used that big usermodes.txt list. Did you have any specific resolution specified in the pacman.ini file or mame auto selected that right resolutions and refresh or does it use a default resolution in the pacman.ini file as a reference?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 09:41:57 am
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?

I'll check when I get home from work tonight. I also have an ATI Radeon X850 to try as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 14, 2008, 10:01:50 am
One last question sailor since I dont have my new ati card to test. When you used that big usermodes.txt list. Did you have any specific resolution specified in the pacman.ini file or mame auto selected that right resolutions and refresh or does it use a default resolution in the pacman.ini file as a reference?

I don't use any INIs at all. MAME selects resolutions itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 14, 2008, 04:54:03 pm
I have a radeon X1650 pro 512mb on the way and will post the results.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 07:09:14 pm
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?

I'll check when I get home from work tonight. I also have an ATI Radeon X850 to try as well.

After installing soft 15k and rebooting, the screen is skewed with noticeable flicker, and the OSD says:
    FH 15.8 KHZ
    FV 50.2 HZ
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 14, 2008, 07:30:36 pm
Sure, 800x600 :)

With your D9400 you should be able to install 15 + 25 + 31kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 07:46:05 pm
Sure, 800x600 :)

With your D9400 you should be able to install 15 + 25 + 31kHz.

I know. It doesn't seem to be working with my graphics card though. None of the resolutions are listed in quickres, and mame will choose to run games at 800x600. I'm trying an ATI card now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 14, 2008, 10:33:26 pm
Salior

I just got my x1950xt works great  right out of the box( I will need to add that to your compatablity thread)

I setup the usermodes.txt and pasted in the large list your put in the thread and ran mame -verbose.

I had gotten the same result as you however nearly all thoser usermode resoultions didnt not work with my monitor.

Screen when a little crazy and also made a high pitch noise. Strange because my bill labs quad sync monitor is capable of running many modes.

Also something else I ve played around with is adding those modelines you gave me for pacman two pages ago in this thread and I specified in the pacman.ini file 352x288@55 and it still selected the default one @51. Seems like if you have same resolution with different refresh rates mame will always pick the default ones in embedded in soft 15khz. What is that?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 15, 2008, 11:28:28 am
I'm able to add new resolutions with powerstrip, but not with soft15k.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 12:03:13 pm
Screen when a little crazy and also made a high pitch noise. Strange because my bill labs quad sync monitor is capable of running many modes.
Most likely the horizontal flyback on those modes it too high, as they are calculated for standard 15kHz (which is something like 20% of active pixel = sync) and with your Monitor simply has a faster flyback (like 10% of pixel = sync)
I'll attach the same list again with smaller sync width.

Also something else I ve played around with is adding those modelines you gave me for pacman two pages ago in this thread and I specified in the pacman.ini file 352x288@55 and it still selected the default one @51. Seems like if you have same resolution with different refresh rates mame will always pick the default ones in embedded in soft 15khz. What is that?
Try only to add the usermodes, NOT the base 15kHz ones (as they ALL will be added with 60Hz to the registry).
As for MAME, in your INI try setting "resolution0" not "resolution", MAME seems to have some... pretty nasty behaviour...



I'm able to add new resolutions with powerstrip, but not with soft15k.
Now that IS strange as both should be doing quite the same thing. With both NVidia AND ATI?
Can't help you at all right now, as I'm not sitting in front of it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 12:39:11 pm
I tried pasting that updated text file, but when I ran soft 15 and intall usermodes it gives me a runtime error 13. It is like the problem I had with the decimal points that u fixed in build38
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 12:51:06 pm
Seems I can add first 3 lines without runtime error after that i get error if I add more.

Also i tried pacman with the first 3 modelines added I it doesnt play nice with my monitor


And as far as mame .ini. It was using resolution0 and it still didnt grab the modeline in usermodes.txt

Infact here is verbose listing
DirectDraw: Using DirectDraw 7
DirectDraw: Configuring device Radeon X1950 Se
DirectDraw: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281696
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270688
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 2062.264152
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268914
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267815
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 65.379417
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724360
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 64.861554
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213470
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906188
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715531
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044792
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 62.935744
DirectDraw: Mode selected =  352x 288@ 60Hz
DirectDraw: primary surface created: 352x288x32

here is my usermodes.txt

modeline '352x288 17,1kHz 55Hz' 7,96 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

noticed it didnt even see the 352x288@55 in the verbose listing.




Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 01:14:51 pm
You DID install 15kHz AND Usermodes did you?
And what error do you get?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 04:14:58 pm
Yes I Did

I got a run time error 13
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 05:06:47 pm
Oo...
Do you really use build 29? If so please attach the mode that generates the error.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 05:32:07 pm
modeline "272x236@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.16 224 240 232 264 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@57p;15.732kHz" 5.915232 320 336 344 376 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x64@60p;15.72kHz" 8.92896 480 496 536 568 64 130 229 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15.72kHz" 11.82144 640 656 720 752 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 208 224 250 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 5.042424 272 288 288 320 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60p;15.7608kHz" 5.295629 288 304 304 336 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x480@60p;31.5kHz" 18.396 496 512 552 584 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@60p;31.5kHz" 23.688 640 656 720 752 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x480@60p;31.5kHz" 38.052 1024 1056 1144 1208 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x480@60p;31.5kHz" 28.476 768 800 840 904 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x192@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@61p;15.71981kHz" 4.401546 240 256 248 280 192 214 246 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59p;15.74337kHz" 4.785985 256 272 272 304 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x448@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.7458kHz" 4.786724 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x224@60p;15.77863kHz" 4.796702 260 276 272 304 224 238 258 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x248@59p;15.73835kHz" 6.924874 376 392 408 440 248 254 262 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x230@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 230 240 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x184@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 184 210 249 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "223x240@50p;15.75kHz" 4.158 223 239 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60p;15.73426kHz" 6.545454 352 368 384 416 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x480@60p;31.5kHz" 17.892 480 496 536 568 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@59p;15.74337kHz" 4.785985 256 272 272 304 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60p;15.72327kHz" 4.402516 240 256 248 280 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.76613kHz" 4.792903 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x252@57p;15.77305kHz" 4.416454 240 256 248 280 252 260 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.40496 240 256 248 280 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57p;15.77305kHz" 4.795007 256 272 272 304 224 242 269 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@57p;15.7765kHz" 4.41742 240 256 248 280 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55p;15.73kHz" 4.78192 256 272 272 304 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55p;15.73kHz" 7.04704 384 400 416 448 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x248@55p;15.73kHz" 7.04704 384 400 416 448 248 260 280 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55p;15.73503kHz" 7.049296 384 400 416 448 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@55p;15.73kHz" 9.438 512 528 568 600 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@61p;15.738kHz" 4.784352 256 272 272 304 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@76p;25.02441kHz" 7.607422 256 272 272 304 256 280 316 328 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.27584 232 248 240 272 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.15008 224 240 232 264 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59p;15.753kHz" 4.788912 256 272 272 304 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x208@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57p;15.73582kHz" 7.049647 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58p;15.755kHz" 7.05824 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@60p;25.02kHz" 15.012 512 528 568 600 400 406 414 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.74499kHz" 5.920116 320 336 344 376 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x232@59p;15.74499kHz" 5.920116 320 336 344 376 232 244 261 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x200@60p;15.72kHz" 11.82144 640 656 720 752 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.90464 264 280 280 312 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 260 276 272 304 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@55p;15.74995kHz" 5.921979 320 336 344 376 240 256 279 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@56p;15.736kHz" 5.916736 320 336 344 376 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58p;15.755kHz" 4.78952 256 272 272 304 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.753kHz" 5.923128 320 336 344 376 240 248 263 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.74382kHz" 5.919677 320 336 344 376 240 248 261 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 320 336 344 376 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58p;15.76888kHz" 7.064457 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 320 336 344 376 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x239@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 318 334 344 376 239 251 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x238@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 294 310 312 344 238 246 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "316x239@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.794231 316 332 336 368 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 292 308 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x231@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 292 308 312 344 231 241 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "276x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.164423 276 292 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.53952 352 368 384 416 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60p;15.7432kHz" 7.052954 384 400 416 448 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x245@57p;15.732kHz" 6.670368 360 376 392 424 245 255 271 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@57p;15.732kHz" 6.670368 360 376 392 424 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x240@60p;15.72kHz" 7.41984 400 416 440 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.66528 360 376 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60p;15.74803kHz" 7.055118 384 400 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.77951kHz" 4.796971 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.77984kHz" 4.797073 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x210@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 210 228 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x208@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@59p;15.77727kHz" 9.466364 512 528 568 600 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.73425kHz" 5.916078 320 336 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.74428kHz" 5.919847 320 336 344 376 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60p;15.73425kHz" 5.916078 321 337 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x384@58p;24.998kHz" 14.59883 496 512 552 584 384 400 423 431 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.67136 416 432 456 488 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x384@60p;25.02kHz" 14.61168 496 512 552 584 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x513@60p;31.5kHz" 26.208 704 736 768 832 513 517 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.530816 248 264 256 288 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55p;15.76637kHz" 4.792976 256 272 272 304 256 266 283 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@56p;15.76637kHz" 4.792976 256 272 272 304 256 264 276 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.52736 248 264 256 288 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 232 246 265 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57p;15.73989kHz" 4.407169 240 256 248 280 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73034kHz" 4.782023 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 320 336 344 376 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 319 335 344 376 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x256@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.412121 240 256 248 280 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@54p;15.768kHz" 5.67648 304 320 328 360 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.9168 376 392 408 440 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@59p;15.753kHz" 5.67108 304 320 328 360 256 260 265 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "488x384@58p;24.998kHz" 14.39885 488 504 544 576 384 400 423 431 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x384@60p;25.02kHz" 15.012 512 528 568 600 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60p;15.77916kHz" 4.796865 256 272 272 304 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x256@57p;15.732kHz" 4.530816 248 264 256 288 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.73381kHz" 4.783077 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x236@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x225@60p;15.75984kHz" 6.177855 336 352 360 392 225 237 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x464@60p;31.5kHz" 17.892 480 496 536 568 464 484 515 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x232@60p;15.72kHz" 9.18048 496 512 552 584 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "255x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 255 271 272 304 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@45p;15.73497kHz" 9.440983 512 528 568 600 240 276 331 349 -hsync -vsync
modeline "160x200@60p;15.75981kHz" 3.025884 160 176 160 192 200 220 253 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x231@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 231 239 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x255@61p;15.74707kHz" 5.920898 319 335 344 376 255 255 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 232 240 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.53344 296 312 320 352 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 6.177795 336 352 360 392 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x384@60p;25kHz" 15 512 528 568 600 384 394 411 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x384@60p;25kHz" 15 508 524 568 600 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x288@60p;25.02915kHz" 15.01749 512 528 568 600 288 330 394 415 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x228@60p;15.77287kHz" 9.463722 512 528 568 600 228 240 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 11.85128 640 656 720 752 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 12.48167 672 704 728 792 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 6.682105 360 376 392 424 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.74041kHz" 4.785086 256 272 272 304 224 236 251 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@57p;15.732kHz" 4.40496 240 256 248 280 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.790303 256 272 272 304 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.738kHz" 4.784352 256 272 272 304 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 5.042424 272 288 288 320 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.412121 240 256 248 280 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x216@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.74337kHz" 5.919508 320 336 344 376 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x432@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73989kHz" 4.784926 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@56p;15.736kHz" 4.40608 240 256 248 280 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73856kHz" 4.784522 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.74428kHz" 4.78626 256 272 272 304 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "720x241@60p;15.76424kHz" 13.36807 720 752 784 848 241 249 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@59p;15.74625kHz" 4.78686 256 272 272 304 256 260 264 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@50p;15.75kHz" 4.158 224 240 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x192@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@56p;15.736kHz" 4.783744 256 272 272 304 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@56p;15.736kHz" 7.049728 384 400 416 448 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@56p;15.736kHz" 4.783744 256 272 272 304 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "511x399@55p;24.98207kHz" 14.98924 511 527 568 600 399 417 446 455 -hsync -vsync
modeline "399x253@55p;15.73195kHz" 7.425482 399 415 440 472 253 265 281 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@57p;25.00417kHz" 15.0025 512 528 568 600 400 412 430 436 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@57p;15.753kHz" 7.435416 400 416 440 472 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@57p;25.02504kHz" 15.01502 512 528 568 600 400 412 432 438 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@57p;31.521kHz" 23.70379 640 656 720 752 480 504 541 553 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@60p;15.72kHz" 7.41984 400 416 440 472 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@50p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@57p;15.77567kHz" 4.417186 240 256 248 280 248 258 273 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@54p;15.768kHz" 5.928768 320 336 344 376 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@61p;15.72327kHz" 5.911949 320 336 344 376 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.52736 248 264 256 288 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54p;15.768kHz" 4.793472 256 272 272 304 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54p;15.768kHz" 4.793472 256 272 272 304 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54p;15.7634kHz" 4.792074 256 272 272 304 224 248 281 293 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "342x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.288 342 358 368 400 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x223@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 319 335 344 376 223 235 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.7738kHz" 5.930949 320 336 344 376 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@55p;15.73582kHz" 4.783688 256 272 272 304 224 244 274 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.9168 376 392 408 440 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512@60p;31.5kHz" 38.052 1024 1056 1144 1208 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.79104 368 384 400 432 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 5.910945 320 336 344 376 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 8.929301 480 496 536 568 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 7.042829 384 400 416 448 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x432@60p;31.5kHz" 21.42 576 592 648 680 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x224@60p;15.72kHz" 8.30016 448 464 496 528 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57p;15.75148kHz" 7.056663 384 400 416 448 240 252 272 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60p;15.72kHz" 8.30016 448 464 496 528 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x236@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "344x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.41376 344 360 376 408 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x384@60p;25.02kHz" 11.20896 384 400 416 448 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "351x251@60p;15.72kHz" 6.53952 351 367 384 416 251 255 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@56p;15.736kHz" 5.916736 320 336 344 376 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 9.447115 512 528 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x234@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 234 244 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x280@60p;25.02kHz" 11.20896 384 400 416 448 280 326 394 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x288@60p;25.02kHz" 7.60608 256 272 272 304 288 332 395 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.79104 368 384 400 432 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.67936 304 320 328 360 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 320 336 344 376 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x248@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.66528 360 376 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@58p;15.776kHz" 6.689024 360 376 392 424 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@58p;15.776kHz" 5.67936 304 320 328 360 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "380x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 380 396 416 448 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@55p;15.73kHz" 5.91448 320 336 344 376 240 256 278 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x224@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 508 524 568 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x240@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 508 524 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync



Yes i did use build 29

plus these new ones you created dont all work dont with monitor either.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 06:56:11 pm
Mhm... It was a typo in the mode generator...
Try this one...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 07:41:37 pm
  that worked with no errors, but monitor doesnt like those resolutions

couldnt sync

screen went crazy



 224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.406697
  240x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
  240x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
  256x 208@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.400162
  256x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.274461
  256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.401621
  256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
  256x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
  256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281696
  272x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.400162
  272x 236@ 60Hz -> 62.274053
  288x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
  288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.399064
  288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
  304x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.271048
  304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
  321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
  321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
  336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
  352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
  352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270688
  352x 288@ 60Hz -> 70.016090
  368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
  384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
  392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
  401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268914
  448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267815
  448x 384@ 60Hz -> 65.379417
  480x  64@ 60Hz -> 62.266231
  496x 480@ 60Hz -> 64.414690
  512x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.266985
  512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
  512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724360
  512x 384@ 60Hz -> 64.861554
  512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
  512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213470
  632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
  640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
  640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
  640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906188
  720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715531
  800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
 1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.271201
 1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044792
 1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 62.935744
irectDraw: Mode selected =  224x 224@ 61Hz
irectDraw: primary surface created: 224x224x32 (R=00FF0000
)
irectDraw: New blit size = 224x288
irectDraw: blit surface created: 224x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=
irectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
awInput: APIs detected
nput: Adding Mouse #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0039#6&2c66b9f
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0039#6&2c66b9f9&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Mouse #2: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0020#6&37ce979
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #2: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0020#6&37ce9792&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Mouse #3: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0060#6&3293176
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #3: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0060#6&3293176f&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #1: \??\HID#Vid_047b&Pid_0011#6&35de7bcd&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #2: \??\HID#Vid_d209&Pid_0301&MI_00#8&2aa
-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #3: \??\HID#Vid_d209&Pid_0301&MI_01#8&6d4
56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
irectInput: Using DirectInput 7
nput: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
 s8888888s
 4s88888s6
 44s888s66
 444555666
 444555666
 444555666
 44s222s66
 4s22222s6
 s2222222s
ound: buffer overflows=1 underflows=0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 08:07:05 pm
How did you hook up your monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 09:00:44 pm
VGA cable. Why do you ask?



Video card is X1900XT and has two  DVI and I use DVI to VGA converter

Dont have any issues

Here is specs on monitor

http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 09:50:32 pm
Hm... Well then I can't help you.
I don't see why it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 09:51:09 pm
Try only to add the usermodes, NOT the base 15kHz ones (as they ALL will be added with 60Hz to the registry).
As for MAME, in your INI try setting "resolution0" not "resolution", MAME seems to have some... pretty nasty behaviour...


I was reading over what you said here. Are you saying when using that monster list you created dont install 15khz just install usermodes? Custom15k resolutions override the usermodes??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 12:18:09 am
No... the base 15kHz modes get added as 60Hz, though the 288 line modes really just have 50Hz...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 16, 2008, 08:18:34 am
No... the base 15kHz modes get added as 60Hz, though the 288 line modes really just have 50Hz...


I understand that part. What I am asking is this. When using usermodes can resolutions from those usermodes co exist with the defaults in soft15. Again it seems like when a default resolution is present a duplicate resolutions with a different refresh inserting in the  usermodes.txt wont be  recongizned.

Only way I can get a different linemode is to remove that resolution from custom15khz and then re add new one.

Hm... Well then I can't help you.
I don't see why it doesn't work.



Dont give up on me. There has to be sometype of adjustment to the modelines to get them to work.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 11:36:41 am
I've got a WG 25k7193, currently with soft15kHz running (15khz installed) I don't seem to get any picture at all. I pulled this out of an old beat-up Outrunners Cab.

Any ideas on how to even get some sort of picture on it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 16, 2008, 01:17:08 pm
thanks for the great program :cheers:

hantarx polo 25" serial #40029
geforce 5200fx nvidia drivers and soft 15 only 15kHz installed

problem is there is a black line threw the screen half screen shows full screen other 1/4 of screen all over the place
<a href="http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/john_abey/?action=view&current=DSC01564.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/john_abey/DSC01564.jpg" border="0" alt="arcadesplitscreen"></a>

anyhelp would be much appreciated
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 01:26:55 pm
When using usermodes can resolutions from those usermodes co exist with the defaults in soft15.
Yes they do, as the base 15kHz modes have the lowest priority.

Dont give up on me. There has to be sometype of adjustment to the modelines to get them to work.
I only can say that those modelines work fine for my two Hantarex Polos, my Hantarex MTC 9110 and my good old Commodore 1084.

You will have to investigate yourself where the problem is, as I simply don't have your monitor and thus no way to try around, sorry.


I've got a WG 25k7193, currently with soft15kHz running (15khz installed) I don't seem to get any picture at all. I pulled this out of an old beat-up Outrunners Cab.

Any ideas on how to even get some sort of picture on it?
Hm... What graphics card are you using? How is it connected with the monitor?


hantarx polo 25" serial #40029
geforce 5200fx nvidia drivers and soft 15 only 15kHz installed

problem is there is a black line threw the screen half screen shows full screen other 1/4 of screen all over the place
Mhm...
Looks to me as If your card output is still 31kHz.
What drivers do you use exactly?

What resolution do you have your Windows set to?
Does it happen with other resolution too?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 01:46:12 pm
Here's the thread with some pictures now, I just randomly got a picture on the monitor while fiddling around with the nVidia Control Panel. Now it thinks there are two monitors (which is true, one is my normal computer monitor).

I'm using an nVidia GeForce 5950

Here's the thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77887.0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 02:02:06 pm
Yeah actually I "force" the detection of two monitors as a J-PAC or a Ultimarc VGA Amp won't be "sensed" as a valid display, which is bad If you want to use dualhead :)

As for now... Do you still have a image on your VGA monitor after reboot?
If so, your card doesn't output 15kHz but 31+kHz.

Also after installing Soft-15kHz DO a reboot, and don't fiddle around in the control panel, as it will overwrite any settings :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 08:24:23 pm
My VGA monitor does not show anything but "Frequency Over Range." Now the picture is decent but is partially squished at the bottom of the screen. I'll update my other thread tomorrow with pictures of it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 17, 2008, 10:46:18 am
Still no luck on getting soft15k to work for me. With powerstrip, I was able to create a custom 15k resolution and test it, but after rebooting it would not be selectable anywhere (through powerstrip and quickres). For some reason they aren't sticking in the registry or aren't being loaded from the registry upon reboot. Is there a way I can confirm this? Would the fact that I'm using windows server 2003 have anything to do with it? The architecture is virtually identical to XP. There has never been anything that runs on XP that I was not able to run on 2003. I purchased an arcadevga card. Hopefully this will solve my problems.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 17, 2008, 08:00:44 pm
oem drivers version: 82.65z2

windows running 640 x 420

the higher i go the more desktops there are 1240 780 showed 3 desktops across screen
450x254 shows around 6 to 10 windows

thanks and keep working on the great program :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 17, 2008, 11:01:37 pm
oem drivers version: 82.65z2

windows running 640 x 420

the higher i go the more desktops there are 1240 780 showed 3 desktops across screen
450x254 shows around 6 to 10 windows

thanks and keep working on the great program :cheers:

Try this one -> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html



For some reason they aren't sticking in the registry or aren't being loaded from the registry upon reboot. --- Would the fact that I'm using windows server 2003 have anything to do with it? --- I purchased an arcadevga card. Hopefully this will solve my problems.

Hm...
As for 2003 Server, should work fine, I'm using XP-64Bit, which itself is basically 2003 Client.
I'm curious why the registry changes don't stick.

Hm yeah as long as you have an 32Bit Version of 2003 the ArcadeVGA should solve the problem, as there are no 64Bit drivers for the ArcadeVGA.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 17, 2008, 11:39:21 pm
Yea, I'm running 32bit. I'll post my results when I get the card set up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 18, 2008, 10:15:55 am
thanks the driver worked :cheers:
thanks the driver worked  >:D

now to get my keyboard hack working

when i checked nvidia the driver download was version 169 or so
how to find old drivers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 10:29:50 am
Theres a button somewhere to a driver archive :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 18, 2008, 01:56:33 pm
 I installed a PCI card and made it the primary display under the bios setting and I had also disabled the PCI display under windows and I still am getting the bios screens with both AGP & PCI card's connected with those settings.

 I figured I would leave the setting like above and pulled the PCI card out and rebooted the pc to see what happens and it still loaded the bios screens even without the pci hooked to the PC but with it was still set as the main display in the bios settings.

think the card is too old or malfunctioned?

I am running XP pro SP2 for a OS.

I also have 5 PCI slots and had the card sitting in slot#3 of the 5 PCI slots

any idea's?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 02:13:03 pm
Hm... Thats strange. Should work, maybe your bios drives all available VGA cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mchay on March 18, 2008, 03:34:38 pm
I'm sorry if this question has been answered, but here goes. I've setup my computer with soft15khz and connected it with JPAC to my arcade machine. It shows one picture fine, but it goes up and down - if you know what I mean. The picture doesn't stand still. It boots fine into windows, but it's not to any good use as long as the screen is jumping up and down.

Does anyone have a solution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 03:36:33 pm
You will have to adjust V-HOLD (or V-FREQ depending on manufacturer) on your monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mchay on March 18, 2008, 04:03:51 pm
Thanks for the very quick response, it now works like it should. Only minor adjustments needed.


I forgot to mention how much I appreciate your work. This is really a great piece of software :-)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 19, 2008, 06:31:29 pm

I also have 5 PCI slots and had the card sitting in slot#3 of the 5 PCI slots

any idea's?

I don't think just any of them will work for video.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 19, 2008, 08:16:32 pm
I got my new X1650 pro 512MB AGP in yesterday and I installed it today with soft15K.

Oh, my  :applaud:

it works great I only am running the stock 15K res's that are included and have not tried any custom user modes yet.

when I tried the pci with the arcadevga2 just to see if it would still work as posted on page one and it does not like it say's but with the new card it worked great.

the arcadevga2 will override the pci video card still so that trick does not work with the arcadevga2 card

I stumbled on that trying to get a head start I was not trying to use the arcadevga2 withsoft 15k lol.

when I tried to run soft15k on desktop I either got a error 75 or 9 in the folder and out of the folder gave the difference in the 2 error numbers but when it was in the folder and placed in C: it made no error's.

Ummon: on my mobo the pci video works in any of the 5 spots I use slots 1 3 5 to keep a better space for in between each card for better cooling. 



 

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 21, 2008, 05:32:16 pm
I got my new X1650 pro 512MB AGP in yesterday and I installed it today with soft15K.

Oh, my  :applaud:

it works great I only am running the stock 15K res's that are included and have not tried any custom user modes yet.

when I tried the pci with the arcadevga2 just to see if it would still work as posted on page one and it does not like it say's but with the new card it worked great.

the arcadevga2 will override the pci video card still so that trick does not work with the arcadevga2 card

I stumbled on that trying to get a head start I was not trying to use the arcadevga2 withsoft 15k lol.

when I tried to run soft15k on desktop I either got a error 75 or 9 in the folder and out of the folder gave the difference in the 2 error numbers but when it was in the folder and placed in C: it made no error's.

Ummon: on my mobo the pci video works in any of the 5 spots I use slots 1 3 5 to keep a better space for in between each card for better cooling. 



 

 

Ah, good.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JKJudgeX on March 22, 2008, 02:28:14 pm
Here's my setup:
GeForce 5700 le
Abandoned Street Fighter 2 Machine w/ functional JAMMA connector.
Ultimarc JPAC

Status:
I can turn on the machine, marquee lights, and screen comes on but stays totally black...

I can't seem to output anything to the screen when plugged in via the JPAC.
The Sync OK light stays off if I am in a normal windows resolution (as it's supposed to I think)...

When I switch to the right resolution via Powerstrip OR Soft 15khz, The sync OK light as well as the Signal light on the JPAC turn on, but the screen stays totally blank.

I also can't get my GeForce 5700 le to recognize that I have anything plugged into the second monitor port, so, I am having to change my resolution and then swap plugs.

Is there any place I can find a description of what the wires are coming from the monitor and where they are supposed to be plugged into the JAMMA connector?  Particularly confusing is the black wire with a red and blue U clip on it, I have no idea where that goes.

Any idea why nothing is making it to my arcade screen?  Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you so much, been working at this for weeks, and am stumped.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 22, 2008, 03:05:38 pm
Here's my setup...

Not sure you are really in the right thread.

Before you worry about soft15Khz/Powerstrip, you need to sort out your setup.

The jpac has a jumper on it that divides 31Khz signals, allowing you to see the bios screens on your arcade monitor. Make sure you enable this, then see if you can get a pic normally - until you get to the stage where you can, powerstrip and soft15Khz won't work for you.

Email Andy at Ultimarc for support - he is extremely helpful and good at supporting his products.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JKJudgeX on March 22, 2008, 03:47:58 pm
Oh, where should I post this kind of question?  I don't know anyone locally at all here in small-town WV who could really help with this kind of thing...

I see the jumpers on the JPAC, I haven't modified them... at this point I think it's probably safest to assume that I've somehow dislodged a cable on the inside of the arcade machine (it's old and been moved a lot)...

There was a point when my inspiron laptop would show bios boot screens on this very machine, before I moved it, but, I don't know what I've changed.  There is a black cable coming from the back of the monitor with a blue and red connector that i don't remember where it's supposed to go, but, everything else seems plugged into the only logical place it will fit (aside from the panel controls)

Again, if this is the wrong place for this, I apologize... i'll look around the forums for a better place as soon as I get some lunch... I only post here because I experienced more success with soft15khz than anything else yet in terms of getting the sync OK light on my jpac to light up appropriately.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 22, 2008, 04:07:03 pm
No its fine - I meant more that you will have more luck elsewhere - say start a new topic in this forum with your problem - because more people will see it, rather than just those who are following soft-15Khz software development.

I don't have a jpac/arcadevga (one of the reasons I'm using soft-15Khz) so dont' know it well, just know about the 31Khz jumper from the ultimarc website.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 25, 2008, 07:06:30 pm
ok.. I'm still having quite a bit of trouble after tweaking custom txt files for the past week or so.   I have a radeon x1550 with a Betson trisync.. I'm really starting to think its the card because this monitor "should" be able to handle just about anything...  but I've had to remove most of the useful resolutions because they would work.

remove 256,240
remove 256,256
remove 256,264
remove 288,240
remove 296,240
remove 304,240
remove 321,240
remove 321,256
remove 336,240
remove 352,256
remove 352,264
remove 368,240
remove 384,288
remove 392,240
remove 401,256
remove 1280,720


I especially need 352x288 for Pacman,Contra, etc and 401x256 for Mortal Kombat, NBA Jam, SF2 etc...

most resolution in that ball park either come up insanely out or range or crash my computer with a hard reset..  Here's a screen cap of the resolutions I got to work.. most of them useless...


EDIT  Just found this:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/lrmc   maybe I can get something working...  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 25, 2008, 09:34:40 pm
how do I get LRMC to output in a format that's the same as Soft 15Khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 11:47:34 am
Hi i'm using soft-15khz on my hantarex monitor (15khz) and all works great (mame32) except for the cps3 emulator and the daphne emulator they both give me a black screen after loading.
Is this cause they output a 25 khz signal or am i doing something wrong.

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 26, 2008, 01:36:18 pm
They both output 15kHz, if you only installed 15kHz resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 01:56:47 pm
So any ideas on why i get a black screen after loading with cps3 and daphne?

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 26, 2008, 02:43:50 pm
What resolutions do they use?
CPS3 works fine in MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 06:09:21 pm
cps3 lets you choose from 640:480 and upwards ( i choose 640:480) daphne also uses 640:480.

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 26, 2008, 06:31:19 pm
earlier in the thread I thought that someone said that ATI didnt have a limit on the number of resolutions you can add only Nvidia.. but I'm running into a limit.  Seems to be about 40.. which would be plenty for Mame but right now when I'm testing hundreds of resolutions to find the few that work.. I guess if I understood the modeline calculator but right now its guesswork for me
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 27, 2008, 04:25:31 pm
cps3 lets you choose from 640:480 and upwards ( i choose 640:480) daphne also uses 640:480.

greetz rob

And since your monitor is 15khz, it won't do those, unless it's 640x480 interlaced, yeah? You're not getting a 'black' screen, I think - it's the monitor shutting down until you exit the game. I think you should go to the wiki....as well as research this thread a bit.


Brandon - I don't know what problems you could be having. Plenty of people have been using soft15 Betson multisyncs (I think even the tri-sync) with no problems. I'm using an X1650 with soft15, no problems. I'd recommend starting from scratch, and re-installing the default resolutions. Alternatively, at least just for education's sake, you could scare up my Advancemame thread, follow the tutorial for auto mode, and see how it operates. (Pay attention to the top of the tab menu in-game as it'll show you the pixel, v, and h clocks.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 27, 2008, 06:09:14 pm
Thanks Ummon!  my suspicion is that it has to do with the pixel clock..  I get out of sync errors on all the lower resolutions for some reason... but I would be happy with a "doublescan" like 704x288 instead of 352x288 but I can't figure out how do generate the right modeline code using LRMC...   What drivers are you using? Catalyst or omega?  are you using XP?  well, I guess I'll give AdvanceMame another try.. thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 28, 2008, 11:55:47 am
Problem solved :)  for the black screen in cps3 and daphne emu .

I was using an NVIDIA RIVA TNT@/TNT2 pro wich gave me the black screen after loading.

(In mame the cps3 roms worked perfectly but not in the cps3 emulator.)

I've switched to an ati radeon 9600 and now daphne and the cps3 emulator don't give the black screen anymore and are working perfectly now.

So i had to do someting with the nvidia card .

greetz rob

tx very much for soft 15khz it works great :)







































Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 29, 2008, 05:49:36 pm
Thanks Ummon!  my suspicion is that it has to do with the pixel clock..  I get out of sync errors on all the lower resolutions for some reason... but I would be happy with a "doublescan" like 704x288 instead of 352x288 but I can't figure out how do generate the right modeline code using LRMC...   What drivers are you using? Catalyst or omega?  are you using XP?  well, I guess I'll give AdvanceMame another try.. thanks!

Oh, you know what, I don't think the (advmame) svgawin drivers will work with your card. They don't work with mine. Sorry. Let me know if they do, though. I'm using XP SP2. I've used both the stock drivers on the CD that came with the card and Omega. They behaved the same. I don't know what LRMC is - I've only used the X86 or whatever calculator. Before calculating modes, I think it's helpful to look at both of the following:

http://kirurg.org/emame/timing/

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor1.htm


Also, look up the other three modes in the thread that SS created. (I don't have them handy.)



Problem solved :)  for the black screen in cps3 and daphne emu .

I was using an NVIDIA RIVA TNT@/TNT2 pro wich gave me the black screen after loading.


Hm. I have one of those, but it's in a win98 machine and I couldn't get soft15 modes to even load. I dunno.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 29, 2008, 06:38:34 pm
Hehe, no NVidia on 98 Ummon ;)
Also you'll need the Visual Basic Runtime in 98 :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 29, 2008, 07:10:20 pm
Hey when I had my nvidia 7950GT card I had no problems with CPS 3 games, Now with my ATI x1950XT screen goes black. Daphne is fine though.

Wonder whats causing problem
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 29, 2008, 11:50:41 pm
Hehe, no NVidia on 98 Ummon ;)
Also you'll need the Visual Basic Runtime in 98 :)

Ya, sorry, I forgot about that. (No wonder it kept saying radeon 7000 series when I'd start it up, as I guess I still have those drivers in there.) Natch. But I got Advancemame running with it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Stobe on March 30, 2008, 01:38:25 am
First time Soft15Khz user.....

I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

Then I rebooted and hooked it up to my standard res jamma cab.

I got the double screen through bios and Windows loading screen.

Then at the login screen, this is what I got.  And clue what I missed?

Thanks for any help!
-Stobe
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 30, 2008, 04:43:25 am
I'm beginnng to think that the X1550 just isnt very compatible.. I initially tried catalyst 8.3 and then rolled back to 7.3. it still  wont do those lower resolution like 352x288 and 401x256. I think I might just give in and try an AVGA.. X550 should still be ok for PC gaming too ???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 30, 2008, 07:36:36 am
I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

It would be nice to know what forceware exactly you are using.
As for the Windows Image, it MAY be your card does not support interlace, so try changing the desktop resolution now (can be pretty tricky though) to something like 640x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 31, 2008, 01:32:01 am
I have a Geforce4 MX440 (I think 88. something ware) on XP and had not trouble with soft15. However, I am having trouble with an ati rage 128 pro on win98. After several attempts and a few hours, and NOTHING at ATI being compatible, I FINALLY found a driver that worked on some super obscure site. But, soft15 doesn't recognize the adapter....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 31, 2008, 06:21:20 am
Well only ATI catalyst drivers are supported, and those only support Radeon based cards, no Rage128 sry.
However you should try AdvMAME with this one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 31, 2008, 05:48:20 pm
Well only ATI catalyst drivers are supported, and those only support Radeon based cards, no Rage128 sry.
However you should try AdvMAME with this one.

Oh, right, only Catalyst. Sheesh, double minus for reading comprehension. You know, I did try Advancemame - and I got some weird gibberish about signal something, and it went back to the prompt.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:03:36 am
OK..  I just tested Soft 15Khz on an entirely different PC with a Geforce 4 TI4280 (AGP).  It worked PERFECTLY :D  So now I know that the problems I was having before were all because of the Radeon X1550.  With the X1550 none of the following 15khz resolutions would work:

256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 60Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz
352 264 60Hz
352 288 50Hz
368 240 60Hz
384 288 50Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz

The TI4280 worked wonderfully...   BUT it wont work in my Mame cab because its AGP.  Looks like the X1550 is going up for sale! :)

Any suggestions for PCI-E cards??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 06:39:34 am
nvidia 7600gt
but i'm looking for a "good" card myself right now :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 10:43:20 am
I just installed this last night and what a great piece of software.  Thanks! 
I have a couple questions though.  Since I have a Betson Multisync, I installed 15khz, then 25khz, and then 31khz.  I also added a line in custom31khz.txt for a progressive 800x600 and that seemed to work perfectly.  Things seem to be working well so far -- tried a few 15khz resolutions and they look great.  The desktop also looks great at 800x600.  However, I noticed I am missing a 321x240 15khz entry.  There is a 320x240, but when I select it it's really a VGA resolution (monitor OSD shows 31khz @ 60hz).  Any idea how to fix this?

Also, I am wondering if it's possible to have an interlaced 1024x768 25khz mode for people with EGA monitors or multisyncs? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 10:49:27 am
As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

As for interlaced 1024x768... try this one
modeline '1024x768@59,959i' 29,49 1024 1040 1136 1200 768 776 782 820 interlace -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 11:15:32 am
Thanks for the 1024x768 modeline!  :)

As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

Do you think I could add a 321x240 modeline to usermodes.txt and then 'install user mode'?  Will that mess anything up?  Do you happen to have a modeline for that I can try?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 11:50:31 am
Thanks for the 1024x768 modeline!  :)

As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

Do you think I could add a 321x240 modeline to usermodes.txt and then 'install user mode'?  Will that mess anything up?  Do you happen to have a modeline for that I can try?

what kind of card are you using?

maybe try this one...    its 320x240 at 15khz

modeline "320x240@57p;15,732kHz" 6,670368 320 336 392 424 240 252 270 276
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:01:21 pm
That may work, however you should change the active 320 pixels to 321, as Windows surely f*cks around with it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 12:27:21 pm
It's an ATI 9600XT.
Which '320' do I change to '321'? LOL (Sorry I'm a newbie at these modelines).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:34:31 pm
both ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:35:47 pm
That may work, however you should change the active 320 pixels to 321, as Windows surely f*cks around with it.

what is the point of adding the extra pixel?  or is it too much to explain?  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:37:49 pm
Windows handles all 320x resolutions in a special way, and will linedouble them. (which we don't want)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:40:56 pm
ahh..  so that's why his 320x240 mode is 31 khz? I think I get it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:54:21 pm
Exactly
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 03, 2008, 12:03:40 am
Well the 1024x768i worked like a charm (thanks), but I still can't get 321x240 (and I NEED IT!).  In fact, looking at your list of resolutions on your project page (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170), all the ones with a red asterisk (ie. "Fake"-Resolution to avoid DirectX-Problems) are missing from quickres.  Do I have some directX incompatibility?  I'm running 9.0c.  Any ideas for me to try?  Here's what I have loaded:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2008, 03:40:47 am
What Catalyst Version do you use?
It shouldn't show up 400x300  and 320x240 either :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 03, 2008, 09:50:22 am
Whatever the latest one is (ATI's driver site seems to be down).  I tried the ATI drivers with and without catalyst, and I also tried the latest omega drivers (based on catalyst 7.12 I think).  All do the same thing.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2008, 10:00:16 am
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 04, 2008, 04:23:00 pm
According to EasyMamecab, if it goes down to at least 8mhz, it should be usable.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 04, 2008, 04:24:46 pm
The base modelines go down below 5MHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Stobe on April 04, 2008, 05:59:31 pm
I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

It would be nice to know what forceware exactly you are using.
As for the Windows Image, it MAY be your card does not support interlace, so try changing the desktop resolution now (can be pretty tricky though) to something like 640x240.

Forceware 77.72

I was able to boot all the way into windows and change the resolution to 640x240 (this was a task!).  And now the desktop fits within the bounds of the screen.  But all the icons are huge and not much fits. (as expected with such a low resolution).  But the problem is, after a reboot, the "choose user" screen only has enough pixels to show the windows logo, and "Shut Down".  I cannot seem to pick my user.  (and thus, cannot get to windows to tell it not to ask for users, lol).

Any clues?

-Stobe
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 04, 2008, 06:04:09 pm
plug it to a VGA monitor and hit f8 on startup, then tell windows to stard in VGA mode (which disables the drivers for this time) then you should be able to disable user selection.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 04, 2008, 06:44:34 pm
01622: [Core] -refreshspeed has no effect (Aaron Giles)


I saw that as a fix in mame 124u1. Does the -refreshspeed address games that run over 60hz with tripple buffering on?

Wondering if it will address the sound stuttering in mame
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 05, 2008, 02:12:02 am
I've got a Sony PVM-2530 and a Geforce 8400gs pci-e and cannot seem to get it to work. I get the split screen at 640x480 and then when I load it and restart the machine starts up black. When I grab the other monitor it just reads "out of sync" and shuts off. Anyone have good results with this card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 05, 2008, 05:45:09 am
As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 05, 2008, 08:09:44 am
You know I was running mame 122 on my laptop and pacman and donkey kong awlays sound studdered but with 124u1 the run fine. Wondering what they fixed. I havent tried on my arcade cabinet but I am wondering if I will even need sailors soundsync.diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 06, 2008, 06:32:03 am
As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
I was thinking as much. Any plan for a work around?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 06, 2008, 04:21:18 pm
You know I was running mame 122 on my laptop and pacman and donkey kong awlays sound studdered but with 124u1 the run fine. Wondering what they fixed. I havent tried on my arcade cabinet but I am wondering if I will even need sailors soundsync.diff

I saw R. Belmont (I think) saying how far couriersud had come with DK sound emulation, so I picked up 124.1 and was pleasantly surprised. Not only is the sound much clearer and defined, but it doesn't dog my machine and runs at 100% almost 100% of the time. Now if they can just fix a couple other games' sound, I'll be using it...or maybe I'll just compile back in samples for those games.


As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
I was thinking as much. Any plan for a work around?

You missed this earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 06, 2008, 06:21:55 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

how about the x700?  newegg doesnt sell the x600 anymore...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 06, 2008, 11:07:51 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 06, 2008, 11:14:59 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?

maybe she got it working.. ??? somewhat at least.. .

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=4
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 06, 2008, 11:47:26 pm
what make and model was the x1650 you got?

It's a Sapphire X1650 Pro


how about the x700?  newegg doesnt sell the x600 anymore...
Don't know. The ArcadeVGA2 PCIE used an X550, so I suppose other cards of the Radeon-X series (below x1000) work too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 06, 2008, 11:56:45 pm
mine is a sapphire x1650 pro agp slot type and it works with 95% of the stuff that the arcadevga2.

I used the stock 15K setup only but if there is a way to get the mssing 5% somehow then it would work 100% for me.

I have not done any custom files of my own yet but all the ones I have copied and pasted off these page's would not work for me at all so far.

for those who have problems try using the stock settings first instead of custom ones and see if it helps or not.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 07, 2008, 12:47:33 am
I just ordered a Geforce 7600GS from ebay...  so far I've had better luck with Nvidia so I'm going to give this one a try.. probably better 3D performance than the Radeon X1550 anyways..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 07, 2008, 02:57:39 pm
my card required a little software tweak to handle a few res's that sailer was aware of and already had an easy fix so now everything is 100% that I throw at it.


awsome tool hands down  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 08, 2008, 07:44:02 am
I have a 7950 GT that works perfect with soft 15khz and is a way better card then the 7600. I will sell it for $75 plus shipping. If anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 08, 2008, 03:31:41 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?

maybe she got it working.. ??? somewhat at least.. .

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=4

Well, if you know how to work the equation, there are alternatives. It can take a bit of trial and hardware, particularly specific to one's hardware (both video adapter and monitor).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 08, 2008, 09:13:01 pm
I ran resident evil 4 at 800x600 on the x1650 and it is too cool on the arcade rig the arcadevga2 would not display or run it at all when I tried it with that but it works and looks great now.

I also ran company of heroes, battlestations midway, onimusha 3, desert thunder, and have theatre of war and faces of war on the way now since I know they wil run also.

scarface has failed soon as the actual game starts but I am unsure what is actually causing it to lock up but it states something about the ati drivers dont support something on it when it cuase's the crash but O'well can't win them all I guess  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 09, 2008, 06:10:18 pm
Sailor, if a card has some default line-doubled resolutions that are preventing the real 15khz from being added, is it not possible to remove them with the 'remove xxx,yyy' format in the custom15khz.txt file? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 10, 2008, 04:47:40 am
Hm...
the "remove" statement only removes resolutions from the Soft-15kHz list.
However Soft-15kHz should remove any base resolution from your VGA card.

The first exception are resolutions that your monitor sends to the card via DDC signals, but in that case your monitor would support them anyway.
The second exception would be on ATI cards, once ATI adds new "default" resolutions to the drivers (like the added 1280x720 some time ago) as those need to be put on the "black" list.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 10, 2008, 05:37:59 am
so resolutions I had to remove with refreshforce because adding the remove line in the custom.xxxx.txt did get rid of it... maybe that's an ATI thing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 10, 2008, 11:10:11 am
Holy crap... Just got my "X600", which turned out to be something that doesn't exist ;)

The BIOS says its an RV380XT, which would be some kind of X550, but it ALSO says (per device ID) its an X600 series
Another funny fact is that it has a 350 MHz core clock and a RAM clock of 250 MHz (500 MHz DDR) which also doesn't match any of those ATI reference cards ;D
The best part is the catalyst driver which say its an "ATI Radeon x300/x550/x600/x1050 series"...

Whatever...
This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 04:37:40 pm
Well the 1024x768i worked like a charm (thanks), but I still can't get 321x240 (and I NEED IT!).  In fact, looking at your list of resolutions on your project page (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170), all the ones with a red asterisk (ie. "Fake"-Resolution to avoid DirectX-Problems) are missing from quickres.  Do I have some directX incompatibility?  I'm running 9.0c.  Any ideas for me to try?  Here's what I have loaded:

Hi ahofle,

  I have a med res monitor so I was planning on using 1024 x768i and I was wondering if you were pleased with how it looked?  Is the interlacing pretty noticeable(flickery)?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 10, 2008, 06:14:26 pm
I'm very pleased.  It's a bit flickery in windows of course, but that is pretty unavoidable.  Looks great in games though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 10, 2008, 07:15:07 pm
hi all

I downloaded soft15 and ran it - but everything is all grey -

below are specs of  my PC - which I will use in an arcade machine via JPAC.
I only have onboard video.  This PC will ONLY be used for this application.

Also I do not have it hooked to the cab yet - I have it hooked to an LCD till I get everything working as i am a total noob to this.

I am using GameEx FE and I have MAME, PJ64 and ZSNES currently working on this PC fine.

The cab I am going to use is a D & D  mystara - with a well gardner model no. 25k7193.

Can someone point me in the right direction on this ?/

THANKS !!!
   
PC SPECS
Brand:    
Dell
      Memory (RAM):    
1,024 MB
   
Family:    
OptiPlex
      Hard Drive Capacity:    
160 GB
   
Processor Type:    
Intel Pentium 4 HT
      Operating System:    
Windows XP Professional
   
Processor Model:    
--
      Primary Drive:    
DVD+/-RW
   
Processor Speed:    
2,800 MHz
      Condition:    
Refurbished
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 08:11:11 pm
I'm very pleased.  It's a bit flickery in windows of course, but that is pretty unavoidable.  Looks great in games though.

I am excited to hear that.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 08:13:48 pm
hi all

I downloaded soft15 and ran it - but everything is all grey -

below are specs of  my PC - which I will use in an arcade machine via JPAC.
I only have onboard video.  This PC will ONLY be used for this application.

Also I do not have it hooked to the cab yet - I have it hooked to an LCD till I get everything working as i am a total noob to this.

I am using GameEx FE and I have MAME, PJ64 and ZSNES currently working on this PC fine.

The cab I am going to use is a D & D  mystara - with a well gardner model no. 25k7193.

Can someone point me in the right direction on this ?/

THANKS !!!
   
PC SPECS
Brand:    
Dell
      Memory (RAM):    
1,024 MB
   
Family:    
OptiPlex
      Hard Drive Capacity:    
160 GB
   
Processor Type:    
Intel Pentium 4 HT
      Operating System:    
Windows XP Professional
   
Processor Model:    
--
      Primary Drive:    
DVD+/-RW
   
Processor Speed:    
2,800 MHz
      Condition:    
Refurbished

If everything is greyed out, it is most likely due to the fact that your graphics adapter is not compatible.  I'm guessing your system has an older onboard intel chipset and I know from experience that it is not compatible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 10, 2008, 08:23:56 pm
If everything is greyed out, it is most likely due to the fact that your graphics adapter is not compatible.  I'm guessing your system has an older onboard intel chipset and I know from experience that it is not compatible

So,  what are my choices - do I buy a video card?
If so which one should I get for this machine.. please recommend something that is not expensive as i am on a tight budget here. but I do want this to work well - also NOTHING else will be running on this PC except this setup.

THANKS !!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 10, 2008, 09:17:42 pm
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 10, 2008, 09:33:37 pm
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?

This, and it'll help if he reads the soft15 literature thoroughly. I did try out an Intel integrated board set, but it was kitschy, and besides it only offers five modes. So, spuds, yes. Get a card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 10, 2008, 10:00:11 pm
Holy crap... Just got my "X600", which turned out to be something that doesn't exist ;)

This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)

I wish you lots of luck with this quest, and not just because I love your work - I'm using an ASUS A9550 (ATI chipset) and missing the same resolutions .... which is upsetting, because my frontend layouts are all designed for 321x240.  On another thread I notice that ahofle is also having similar problems with his 9600XT.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66366.new;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: nobbo on April 10, 2008, 11:38:39 pm
i have an ATI Radeon 9250 128MB lying around, so i thought i would try this out with that, i installed the card, installed the Catalyst 6.1 drivers, which are said to work fine with this model on the other forum, ran Soft-15khz, clicked the Install 15Khz button and restarted the PC. After windows had booted, the signal on my VGA went out of range for it, which I expected, but when I plugged in my arcade monitor all I had was a bunch of flickering lines and not much else.

Now, without fiddling with the monitor settings, I uninstalled this card and all the drivers, and reinstalled my ArcadeVGA (which is the model before the current ones - Radeon 7000 i think), hooked up my arcade monitor again, and the picture comes out great.

My question is:
Am I installing Soft-15khz right or am I missing something completely, and if this is all good, would it be possible that a card with Soft15 would require different hold etc settings on the actual monitor, than those that are good with an AVGA??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2008, 02:09:17 am
..... ran Soft-15khz, clicked the Install 15Khz button and restarted the PC. After windows had booted, the signal on my VGA went out of range for it, which I expected, but when I plugged in my arcade monitor all I had was a bunch of flickering lines and not much else.

After installing Soft15khz, Did you try changing your desktop resolution to 640x480 before rebooting?  If your default desktop res is something like 1024x768, you'll get the problems you described. 

If this happens , connect the PC to a VGA monitor and boot into safe mode.  Make sure you have 640x480 selected.  Then reboot normally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: nobbo on April 11, 2008, 03:43:42 am
i did make sure that i had selected 640X480 before i rebooted, i might give the card another shot and see if it keeps happening
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 11, 2008, 07:54:22 am
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?

it is hooked up to an LCD now - BUT, I will be connecting it to the arcade cab which will be its permanent home - what I was/am trying to do is get everything installed on this PC BEFORE I attempt to connect it to the cab.
When I installed soft15 - it shows no choices highlighted nor will it allow me to select anything - so what I am understanding from you folks is that it is not compatible with the onboard video card, true?

So if I go an buy a video card, and install it , THEN will I be able to tell if everything is right with my setup by viewing it on the LCD BEFORE I do the install to the cab??

Also can you guys reccomend me a cheap video card that will work with this program and my PC ??

THANKS for your help guys !!  as you can tell I am not well versed on this whole process and read as I might it I still cannot get it in my head  :dizzy: :dizzy:

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2008, 08:13:19 am
When I installed soft15 - it shows no choices highlighted nor will it allow me to select anything - so what I am understanding from you folks is that it is not compatible with the onboard video card, true?

Soft15khz is almost certainly not compatible with onboard video.

So if I go an buy a video card, and install it , THEN will I be able to tell if everything is right with my setup by viewing it on the LCD BEFORE I do the install to the cab??

Sure.  Connect to the LCD and install the basic video card drivers.  But note that you won't be able to get anything on your LCD after you have installed Soft15khz and rebooted (and you won't get anything until Windows actually loads up).  This is the time when you need to attach the PC to your arcade monitor.

Also can you guys reccomend me a cheap video card that will work with this program and my PC ??

There is an ever-growing list of compatible video cards on another forum.  There is a link near the beginning of this thread.  Personally, I like the ATI Radeon 9250 cards (or anything using that chipset) because they seem to work without any problems.  But don't install the Catalyst Control panel software thingy - it isn't necessary, and might even cause some problems.  Just install the ATI 9250 driver itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 11, 2008, 07:54:01 pm
ok thanks
I went to the dell site and fro my PC they show several compatible cards
geforce fx5200
geforce 4mx

would your raedeon 9250's work do you think?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 12, 2008, 01:15:47 pm
ok thanks
I went to the dell site and fro my PC they show several compatible cards
geforce fx5200
geforce 4mx

would your raedeon 9250's work do you think?

make sure your psu can handle whatever card you choose otherwise you may also need a larger psu if you dont look into that before hand.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 12, 2008, 02:00:40 pm
I've actually used AVGA2 AGP cards, which have the 9250 chipset, with Dell GX270N "Optiplex" PC's previously.  These are like their smaller cousins, but have tower cases.  Smaller Dell's are more common, and you may need a smaller profile card.

Having said that, I've hacked an old low-profile Compaq PC (P4 2.0 GHz, ex-office desktop) to accept a larger ATI 9550 card - I just have to leave the case cover off to accommodate the extra height.  Makes for a very cheap but reliable arcade/media player solution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 12, 2008, 06:12:04 pm
Whatever...
This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)

Well I just got my Radeon 9800 Pro installed (same exact model listed on the Soft15khz board as 'compatible') and it has the same line doubled resolutions listed (320x200, 320x240, and 400x300).  :angry:  :timebomb: 
I guess that was a waste of money LOL.  I sure hope you figure out how to remove those.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 12, 2008, 08:46:56 pm
May be a driver issue :(

For the time being...
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeonxprevious-xp.html
maybe an older driver will work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 16, 2008, 02:57:51 pm
In looking over PC2JAMMA for a project, I read the following and remembered when everybody was skeptical Soft15 would work by simply 're-writing the registers':

Quote
The front end (ArcadeOS.EXE) also allows other emulators without a -NTSC option to be connected directly to an arcade monitor.

It does this by reprogramming the VGA timing registers to match a standard res arcade monitor.


http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/pc_arc3.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 01:00:34 am
As for my X600 card (it IS an unknown [OEM?] ASUS card) I've managed to get it working with the 321px width resolutions.

I've fooled around the whole weekend and lastly tried some older drivers.
Actually I've installed Catalyst 6.5 and the card works like charm, however I couldn't get it working with Catalyst 7.12.

I think I'll start a driver archive, as it is pretty hard to get older drivers from the ATI site.

As for everyone using X600 or older cards, with the "320x240" problem, try:
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 01:38:11 am
ATI driver archive...


Catalyst 8.3   9500-HD3800   March 5, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat83-xp.html
Catalyst 8.2   9500-HD3800   Feb. 13, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat82-xp.html
Catalyst 8.1   9500-HD3800   Jan. 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat81-xp.html

Catalyst 7.12   9500-HD3800   Dec. 20, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat712-xp.html
Catalyst 7.11   9500-HD3800   Nov. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat711-xp.html
Catalyst 7.10   9500-HD2900   Oct. 11, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat710-xp.html
Catalyst 7.9   9500-HD2900   Sept. 10, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat79-xp.html
Catalyst 7.8   9500-HD2900   Aug. 13, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat78-xp.html
Catalyst 7.7   9500-HD2900   July 19, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat77-xp.html
Catalyst 7.6   9500-HD2900   June 25, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat76-xp.html
Catalyst 7.5   9500-HD2900   May 31, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat75-xp.html
Catalyst 7.4   9500-x1950   April 18, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat74-xp.html
Catalyst 7.3   9500-x1950   Mar. 28, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat73-xp.html
Catalyst 7.2   9500-x1950   Feb. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat72-xp.html
Catalyst 7.1   9500-x1950   January 10, 2007   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat71-xp.html

Catalyst 6.12   9500-x1950   Dec. 13, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat612-xp.html
Catalyst 6.11   9500-x1950   November 15,2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat611-xp.html
Catalyst 6.10   9500-x1900   Oct. 31, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat610-xp.html
Catalyst 6.9   9500-x1900   Sept. 20, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat69-xp.html
Catalyst 6.8   9500-x1900   Aug. 18, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat68-xp.html
Catalyst 6.7   9500-x1900   July 28, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat67-xp.html
Catalyst 6.6   9500-x1900   June 26, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat66-xp.html
Catalyst 6.5   7000-x1900   May 24,2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Catalyst 6.4   7000-x1900   April 12, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat64-xp.html
Catalyst 6.3   7000-x1900   March 8, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat63-xp.html
Catalyst 6.2   7000-x1900   February 9, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat62-xp.html
Catalyst 6.1   7000-x1800   January 18, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 10:34:52 am
Sweet!!! I will give that a shot tonight and report back.  ATI's website only went down to catalyst 7.4 that I saw.  Thanks for the research.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 06:14:42 pm
SUCCESS!!  I have all the resolutions now with Catalyst 6.5, thanks!

One question about 321x240 resolution, mine shows up as 59 Hz refresh rate on the monitor OSD instead of 60 (so I get lots of screen tearing).  Is that normal?  Some of my 256 line resolutions actually show up running at 60 Hz!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 06:25:15 pm
321x240 should be something like 59.4 Hz

some of the 256 line modes are "extended resolution" (16kHz) which is handled by most standard resolution monitors.

use tripplebuffer or vsync to get rid of tearing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 07:57:48 pm
SUCCESS!!  I have all the resolutions now with Catalyst 6.5, thanks!

Actually I spoke to soon.  Now my 512x384 is gone!  :banghead:
Any ideas?  Is this something I should try and manually add in usermodes.txt?  Anyone happen to have a modeline?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 01:01:55 am
Mhm... Maybe it doesn't like the blacklist entry. *sigh*

add to custom25khz.txt:
modeline '513x384@59,959' 14,75 513 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 01:29:49 am
Thanks, getting closer.  It does appears in the list on reboot, but when I start a 512x384 game the screen appears scrambled.  Does that mean the modeline is slightly off?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 02:02:41 am
Hm... You should check it with QuickRes.
Currently I don't have a MedRes capable monitor ready to test, but it should work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 18, 2008, 04:02:12 am
Hello there!
Allrighty, I just went through every resolution I have so far, and I was wondering if you could look this over to see what is my limitation of my setup / hardware. Some resolutions will display allright, some will display zoomed, some display shifted, some garbled completely and some show up in four different sections.

I have a sony pvm-2530 (its native vga res is 640x200 which I set up but does not diplay the full screen. I am also running a nvidia geforce 6600 pcie x16.

240x240 - scrambled
256x240 - good
256x256 - scrambled
256x264 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
288x240 - screen quadrupled
296x240 - screen quadrupled
304x240 - good
321x240 - good
321x256 - scrambled
336x240 - good
352x256 - scrambled
352x264 - scrambled
352x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
368x240 - good
384x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
392x240 - good
401x256 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
488x240 - good
512x240 - screen shifted but good
512x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
512x448 - good but geometry issues (shifted)
632x264 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
640x240 - good
640x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
640x480 - good but screen flicker
720x480 - good but screen flicker
800x600 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)

I do know how to tweak my geometry on this tv, so what should I set it to to make my adjustments, and what do you recomend to replace my resolutions too. I am working on getting rid of the ones that will not display at all. I am happy with only being able to run a couple reses for my games.

1 . oldschool games
2. vector games
3. neogeo / misc mid 80s games
4. newer games / dreamcast
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 06:05:51 am
hm...
as for the scrambled ones...
well can't help you without having the card in my hands.

as for the geometry problems, yeah, 264 and 288 line modes have other sync widths as 240 line modes, so resize horizontal width and vertical width a bit.

as for the 480 line modes... sure the flicker, they are interlaced :)

Create a Custom15khz.txt and add several remove X,Y lines, for example "remove 240,240" to remove 240x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 07:38:39 am
Hello there!
Allrighty, I just went through every resolution I have so far, and I was wondering if you could look this over to see what is my limitation of my setup / hardware. Some resolutions will display allright, some will display zoomed, some display shifted, some garbled completely and some show up in four different sections.


just generated some new "default" modes, give it a try :)

custom15khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline "240x240@60p;15,72kHz" 5.0304 240 256 288 320 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60p;15,72kHz" 5.40768 256 272 312 344 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.03648 288 304 352 384 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.16224 296 312 360 392 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.66528 320 336 392 424 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15,72kHz" 7.04256 336 352 416 448 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@60p;15,72kHz" 7.67136 368 400 424 488 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "392x240@60p;15,72kHz" 8.1744 392 424 456 520 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60p;15,72kHz" 9.432 448 480 536 600 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15,72kHz" 10.6896 512 544 616 680 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15,72kHz" 13.45632 640 688 760 856 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync

modeline "256x256@60p;16,08kHz" 5.53152 256 272 312 344 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@60p;16,08kHz" 6.81792 320 336 392 424 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@60p;16,08kHz" 7.58976 352 384 408 472 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync

modeline "256x264@58p;15,776kHz" 5.426944 256 272 312 344 264 265 270 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x264@57p;15,789kHz" 7.452408 352 384 408 472 264 266 273 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline "632x264@57p;15,789kHz" 13.26276 632 680 744 840 264 266 273 277 -hsync -vsync

modeline "400x256@53p;15,794kHz" 8.465584 400 432 472 536 256 263 284 298 -hsync -vsync

modeline "352x288@51p;15,759kHz" 7.438248 352 384 408 472 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x288@51p;15,759kHz" 8.068608 384 416 448 512 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x288@51p;15,759kHz" 10.71612 512 544 616 680 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x288@51p;15,759kHz" 13.4897 640 688 760 856 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 08:45:24 am
 :badmood:

Ok. n00b time.

I'm trying to set up my system at the moment but am having difficulties. My set up is:

AMD Athlon chipset
ATI 9600 series video card (Catalyst 8.4 drivers)
Windows XP
Teac CT-M711S. VGA -> SCART
(I think that's all you need for now)

I installed Soft-15KHz and Quickres. Because neither came with documentation on how to use them (I'm not having a go at you SailorSat, but it may help those with a lesser knowledge) I think I may have selected a wrong setting. I did install the 15KHz settings and have done several reboots. I think I may have accidentally chosen a setting that manages to be both incompatible with my monitor and my TV. After windows boots (everything visible) I get an "Out of Frequency" error box which I understand this to mean that the software is working. However, once I plug the TV in I get nothing - just black. I know it was working before because I was getting doubling of the post screens (this hasn't caused it any damage has it?).

Now, after reading all 14 pages of this thread I think I understand where I went wrong (I hope). I tried to boot in safe mode which worked fine, but couldn't find where Soft-15K was installed or Quickres to uninstall them or turn them off. Can anyone help me out of my mess to try and start over?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 09:26:27 am
Where did you get your VGA to SCART cable? Did you wire it yourself?
If you see absolutely nothing then your wiring may be wrong.

As for installation directory...
Soft-15kHz doesn't install anywhere except the folder where you run it from. (thats also where it places the registry backup)
If you ran from the zip file without extracting it, the backup is most likely placed in the windows temp dir (which may be anywhere). In that case just download the zip again and run it from there again.

(Note to myself: check application path for *TEMP*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 05:12:20 pm
Hm... You should check it with QuickRes.
Currently I don't have a MedRes capable monitor ready to test, but it should work.

I tried it again and it's showing 37.8khz on the OSD when I select it!  Are you sure the modeline is good?  I wish I understood those lines better.  Is there a good tool out there to generating these things?  I tried the XFree86 one but I can never get it to take a resolution like 513x384 (it always changes it back to 512).

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 05:19:53 pm
actually... the only way to test them would be a good old pentium2 400mhz, and DOS advance mame
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 05:24:51 pm
OK this one is VERY close and runs at 24.6khz:
Modeline "513x384@60" 15,38 513 544 600 632 384 392 396 404 -hsync -vsync

Everything looks great, except the very top is cut off a little bit.  I guess I'll keep experimenting. Thx

EDIT: Modeline "513x384@60" 15,50 513 544 600 632 384 393 399 410 -hsync -vsync
seems to work (completely pulled out of ---my bottom--- LOL)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 06:26:07 pm
A couple of very useful modelines for people with multisyncs:

Modeline "432x324@60" 13.4 432 440 496 536 324 326 330 351 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "416x312@60" 13 416 424 480 520 312 314 318 338 -hsync -vsync

EGA/25khz at 70 Hz!  I hope I'm not damaging my Betson with those.

This let's you play those newer pesky vertical shmups like Don Pachi with a pixel perfect full screen!
I love this software!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 07:15:18 pm
 :banghead: I found the source of my problems - I had forgotten to reconnect the power component of my SCART lead as it was causing another problem elsewhere. After fixing the first problem I hooked it up and presto! Windows on my TV. :applaud: MALA Front end + MAME on my TV. Windows doesn't like displaying after I exit the frontend.

The next problem is that the picture is now scrolling vertically (lined up - not doubled when booting). I think this is a V-Hold issue. Would this be the case? I can't seem to find an adjustment for it on the tv externally though. Anyone with any suggestions on how to fix either problem? ???
(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4374/mame489bqy9.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mame489bqy9.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 18, 2008, 08:40:53 pm

EDIT: Modeline "513x384@60" 15,50 513 544 600 632 384 393 399 410 -hsync -vsync
seems to work (completely pulled out of ---my bottom--- LOL)

Where does this '513' come from? I've always seen 512.


A couple of very useful modelines for people with multisyncs:

Modeline "432x324@60" 13.4 432 440 496 536 324 326 330 351 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "416x312@60" 13 416 424 480 520 312 314 318 338 -hsync -vsync

EGA/25khz at 70 Hz!  I hope I'm not damaging my Betson with those.

This let's you play those newer pesky vertical shmups like Don Pachi with a pixel perfect full screen!
I love this software!

 Advancemame does this automatically (400x320 in the case of Strikers) - but for mame I've thought about doing this, as Strikers1945 is one such game.


actually... the only way to test them would be a good old pentium2 400mhz, and DOS advance mame

I've actually been doing this with a 266mhz, but cards can be more problematic with older versions, and even just different games in them.




The next problem is that the picture is now scrolling vertically (lined up - not doubled when booting). I think this is a V-Hold issue. Would this be the case? I can't seem to find an adjustment for it on the tv externally though. Anyone with any suggestions on how to fix either problem? ???


Look for a service menu.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 11:22:18 pm
Ok Windows is now displaying. It was fixed by setting desktop resolution to 640x480 before running soft-15KHz. V-Hold is still an issue.
Quote from: Ummon
Look for a service menu.
I've looked but can't seem to find one. Without RGB signal comming in through the SCART all on screen displays (channels etc) are showing up fine with no scrolling. Is there another setting of Soft-15KHz that I need to look at to fix this or does it sound like a TV issue?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 06:28:26 am
Ok Windows is now displaying. It was fixed by setting desktop resolution to 640x480 before running soft-15KHz. V-Hold is still an issue.

Make sure both VGA Pin 13 and Pin 14 are connected to SCART Pin 20.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 07:17:47 am
Is that right? There's no mention of pin 14 on instructions to make a VGA->SCART cable in this (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.0) thread.

I do agree though agree - it makes sense. VGA pin 13 is HSync and 14 is VSync. So combining them to SCART pin 20 (CSync) makes sense. But if so, why is it not mentioned in the thread AND in the wiki?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 07:26:44 am
Because the original source for this pinout uses an ATI card which is switched to composite sync.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 09:05:13 am
So my ATI card isn't then (Radeon 9600)? Which ones are?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: styxx on April 19, 2008, 03:14:34 pm
Anyone tried the x300 or x700 radeon?

This may be stupid, but here goes... ;D

The VGA-SCART homemade cable( http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9365 ) works with any PAL 50hz Scart TV or do you need a RGB Scart input TV with 50/60 Hz.

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 03:27:32 pm
So my ATI card isn't then (Radeon 9600)? Which ones are?
Just connect Pin 13 and 14 together.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 05:05:39 pm
I was just waiting for morning to do it as it was too late at night for me.

Problem solved.  :cheers: Thanks SailorSat. Now to start playing.......
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 23, 2008, 01:50:30 am
Okay, on my PII with win98, I used a Radeon 7000. Drivers loaded fine. Soft15 modes load, but after restart, they aren't available. And I can't test them from Windows, because QuickRes is XP only.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 23, 2008, 08:08:04 am
Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 23, 2008, 11:30:33 am
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 23, 2008, 01:28:54 pm
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 24, 2008, 02:07:15 pm
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 02:09:26 pm
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 02:25:40 pm
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.

I am running a Diablo 550w black chrome ATX switching power supply and it runs 20amp on the 12volt line

I was using a 400watt 16amp 12volt line thinkingit may have been the problem but they both do the same and the diablo 550watt should be more then enough right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 24, 2008, 03:40:36 pm
SailorSat:

Can Soft15kHz be used to add low resolutions and somehow forcing the video card to double them?
This is similar to the 320x240 resolution most cards support which is then doubled to 640x480.
This is the subject of my recent post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79447.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79447.0)

The application would be for TV-out usage.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 04:00:02 pm
Should work with any modeline if you add the "doublescan" parameter, however don't forget to also double pixel clock (the dotted value).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 24, 2008, 04:48:16 pm
Here's a nice post with some useful modelines (including some linedoubled ones):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70233.msg720043#msg720043

For example:

device_video_modeline pc_31.5_320x240 12.5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan

Just change to

modeline '320x240@60' 12,5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 24, 2008, 05:36:46 pm
Thank you.
I will give it a try.
This communicty is such a resource.
Whenever I'm on the verge of quitting finishing this project (due mostly to small budget) someone comes through with an answer.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 05:50:40 pm
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).

I dont understand what you mean.

in order for a HD 2400 pro to work the card itself has to have a pixel clock of 7.12 or higher built on the card itself?

or is the pixelclock something in with the soft15K software that it needs in order for it to work?

will it still be able to run all the soft15K res's like it normaly does or does it loose some?

what is the strongest nvidia card that works with the all of the stock soft15k res's?

I am asking becuase when I run older pc games they run fine but when i play company of heroes, scarface, resisdent evil 4 stuff around that time era after 10 minutes to a half hour the screen goes black and most the time the psu shuts down and resets the pc.

I have aftermarket cooling on everything with arctic silver 5 and such and I cannot seem to get anything over 54 on the ATI tool temp under 100% load.

I am using a new 550watt psu with a x1650 pro so I dont know why it is doing this becuase it should have enough to run the games no problem according to their system requirement specs on the box's.

only thing I can think of is the card cannot handle them but it does play them for a short time and then cuts out  :dunno





Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 05:56:04 pm
It means that only modelines with a Pixelclock of 7.12MHz or higher will work.

Code: [Select]
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 06:13:50 pm
ahh I undertand after I looked at the tested cards section you mentioned prior.

I am running the sapphire x1650 pro agp version and it is the same as your pci version and it to needed the pickelclock of 7.12Mhz or higher.

so if I got the HD2400 I would get the same results as now with the same setting I am currently using but have a better card right?

is there a nvidia that is better then the HD2400 that works?

I dont know to much about nvidia's I alway's been an ATI fan.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 06:16:06 pm
The X1650 is better than a HD2400, at least 3D wise.

The "biggest" GeForce supported would be a GeForce 7950 GT or GX2 (if you got the money *lol*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 07:35:51 pm
I found this chart for newer card benchmarks.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,538.html

according to this chart it looks like the ATI X1950 XT is the strongest way to go until you hit running SLI but on the chart it even beats the geforce 7900GT wich is pretty much the same as the 7950GT but unless there running double then there below the X1950 XT.

anyone running a X1950 XT yet and if so what type of PSU strengh you using?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 10:54:40 am
I tried this modeline with Soft15kHz but it did not quite work:
modeline '384x224@60' 15.1051 384 392 448 480 224 229 230 245 -hsync -vsync doublescan

I tried two ways, with the 31kHz butoon and with the User Modes button and using the appropriately name .txt file in both cases.
This caused the video driver to "dissappear" so that I could not even start MAME but was getting a DDraw error isntead. 

Assuming the above is an error of mine somehow, I did notice that Soft15kHz appended the resolution to DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.
Is this what doublescan does for you?

I uninstalled Soft15Khz and restored the drivers.  I then added the resolution to that registry key manually as shown above but MAME would not see it either through the MAME32 GUI or by forcing it in the command line as either 384x224@128 or 384x224@60.

My questions then are as follows:
1. Does doublescan simply add the resolution at twice the vertical refresh rate?
2. Are the standard 320x240 resolution from the video card done in this fashion (the are called at 60Hz through 85Hz and not at 128Hz)?  Note that this type of resolution is what I am tryng to accomplish but with different values like 384x224.
3. Is DALNonStandardModesBCD the only change Soft15kHz make?  Please let me know what else Soft15kHz does on ATI cards so that I try and play with it some more.

Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on April 25, 2008, 12:52:41 pm
Okay, so I'm converting an old arcade to a MAME machine and I wanted to know, are there any disadvantages with going with Soft 15khz rather than AVGA?  Another member here (who has posted on this thread) is selling his 7950gt that he's tested with Soft 15khz, and I just wanted to know if there's any cons with not using the AVGA.  Sorry if this has been answered already.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2008, 01:26:50 pm
DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.

I'll take a look into it.
It should add the resolution with 60Hz as normaly but with twice the visible lines (hence doublescanned).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:13:50 pm
Thanks.
I did not mean to create extra work for you.
If there is anything you would like me to do to rule out potential user error, let me know and I will try when I get home.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:14:57 pm
Where in the registry (if at all) would it be reflected that the resolution is to be displayed double scanned?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2008, 03:46:02 pm
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:57:29 pm
Very well, then.
I'll fiddle with it tonight.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 26, 2008, 09:56:26 pm
Quote
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String

Hmm.  I could not find anything like that in the registry.
I wonder if I'm looking in the right place.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 09:00:59 am
I found the key.
I got the doublescanned resoutions to work using the cutom31kHz.txt method.
However, I don't think doublescan works as intended in ATI drivers (the drivers fault, I'm sure).  When I managed to get MAME to use 384x224 doublescan, the monitor was reporting 64Hz vertical refresh rate as it should but the whole image was squashed into the top half of the display.  The bottom half was just black.
When I use one of the built-in low resolutions (presumably doublescanned) like 320x240, this does not happen. 
I still hope to find a way to re-create and modify those built-in resolutions.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 29, 2008, 01:44:55 pm
Hm... Try removing the "detailed" mode definitions (DAL CRT384x224x60 etc.,) from the registry.
That MAY work, at least it does on NVidia cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 01:59:21 pm
Will do tonight.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 29, 2008, 05:51:30 pm
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.

Okay, I picked up yours and sure enough it show only vga modes, despite soft15 showing the modes loaded. Maybe I should give up on win98?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 10:59:37 pm
Removing the detailed modes you described did not help.  I wouls still get the image limited to the upper half of the screen.  I played with three different keys besides DALxxxNonStandardModes.  One of them when removed, causes the resolution not to appear.  The others, did not have an effect.
 :cry:

If you think of something else, please let me know.
It looks like I'm running out of options and might have settle for D3D but I'm always compelled to try something else.  It is hard to settle for a compromise.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 29, 2008, 11:03:56 pm
Hm... Too bad.
But you're right, ATI ignores the doublescan flag for now.
Need to fool around with it again :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 30, 2008, 09:32:50 am
Thanks SailorSat.

I appreciate all the advise you gave me.
I'm sure there is not a lot of people trying to do this.
However, it was a good idea in principle.
Being able to use the exact resolution (doublescanned) as the original game through TV-out, would allow to fill the entire screen and avoid hardware stretch and D3D.
I found D3D to be a better alternative than hardware stretch.  Hardware stretch does not modify the image much but makes it look blurry.  D3D on the other hand alters the graphics a bit in the sense that if you have a "staircase" progression of pixels in an image (e.g. the swords in samsho2), D3D adds a few odd steps to make the scaling possible.  However, the resulting image, even though altered from the original, still looks sharp.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 30, 2008, 11:05:56 am
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 30, 2008, 05:50:54 pm
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 30, 2008, 08:09:13 pm
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.

that dont tell me much  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on May 01, 2008, 03:28:13 pm
I'm glad to report that the PNY Nvidia 7600 GS (PCI-E) works flawlessly with Soft 15khz!!  No need for custom modes, all the defaults work perfect!!  I'm glad I got rid of that X1550... what a piece! ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 02, 2008, 08:16:17 pm
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on May 02, 2008, 09:15:21 pm
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Its very possible..  I'm not an expert on such things but perhaps they stray from the Nvidia/ATI reference designs or the cards have a different firmware... ???   I'm just glad I got mine straightened out!  now.. If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2008, 01:23:14 am
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 03, 2008, 10:16:40 am
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)

use this tool to auto configure the games res's and use the same mame settings as if you were using a arcadevga.

http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip


EDIT UPDATE:

got my X1950 pro in today on the 5th.

have not tried it yet but I can already tell it is going to make a major difference becuase it is almost littery twice the size of the x1650 pro.

it is longer then my motherboard is wide wich I was amazed by I had never seen any card as large as this beast is.

also on the X1650 there were 4 ram chips on top and 4 on the bootom and with this X1950 pro all 8 chips are wrapped around the GPU in a circular shape wich is the perfect layout for my new zalman VF900-CU GPU cooling kit.

I will update soon as I get everything hooked back up and tried out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 06, 2008, 03:20:01 pm
sapphire X1950 pro 512MB ddr3 AGP running stock catalyst 7.3 drivers confirmed working great.

after swapping out the X1650 pro for this X1950 was a little different when first ran.

mamewah would crash on exit and I looked into the log and it stated error 5 cannot run 640X480 @ 72Hrz 16 Bit so I changed the resolution from 16 bit back to 32-bit becuase I forgot to on the intail install.

once I rebooted with it changed to 32-bit color it ran perfect again.

I am using a DVI to vga converter so they do indeed work like that with soft15K

for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno

I tried catalyst 8.3 & 8.4 and so far there a no go when I try to install them it states their is no hardware found that supports it but I was running them on my X1650 pro so I am a little confused but I also heard that the X1950 pro have their own special drivers apart from all other  Xseries I dunno how true that is until I check into it for sure though.

card also run 7 degree's cooler then the x1650 pro on the ATI tool temp software.

I cannot get the AGP hotter then 48 on a 100% CPU load.

The psu upgrade also helped the temps and actually dropped my CPU temps 12 degrees more overall  :o

if anyone is going to run one of these cards make sure you have a very powerfull named brand power supply these take two power molex off the PSU and are a very power hungry card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 06, 2008, 04:18:14 pm
I am using a DVI to vga converter so they do indeed work like that with soft15K

Of course it does. There's nothing electronic about those.


Quote
for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno

You might need to mess around in the ATI control panel.


@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 06, 2008, 04:24:21 pm
sapphire X1950 pro 512MB ddr3 AGP running stock catalyst 7.3 drivers confirmed working great.

I tried catalyst 8.3 & 8.4 and so far there a no go when I try to install them it states their is no hardware found that supports it but I was running them on my X1650 pro so I am a little confused but I also heard that the X1950 pro have their own special drivers apart from all other  Xseries I dunno how true that is until I check into it for sure though.
Haven't played with the catalyst 8 series yet.



for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno
Soft15kHz enforces detection of both VGA Heads, thats why it may change port priorities with it installed.



@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
They should work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 06, 2008, 05:23:01 pm
Soft15kHz enforces detection of both VGA Heads, thats why it may change port priorities with it installed.

Oh, right, I wondered about that.



@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
They should work fine.
[/quote]

Be interesting to find out, in case anybody out there has one and could test?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 06, 2008, 06:08:02 pm
The only reason I had mentioned the DVi to VGA converter is becuase in the begining it was stated that it was unclear if they would work that way or not so if that still puzzled or worried anyone else I wanted to post it does work fine.

I also now am running catalyst Version 8.4 and confirm it works good on this X1950 pro.

at first when I tried them without the actuall ati disk it stated the hardware was not compatible.

I needed drivers so I used the disk with the origanal catalyst 7.3 installed it and it went ok but still was a little goofy but after installed it I ran the same 8.4 drivers and this time it worked withut a hitch and was good to go.

no problem with anything I throw at it now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 12, 2008, 02:17:25 am
As I am so far out of the hardware scene it is sickening, can someone recommend a good (AGP preferrably) card with VGA out but the "small" kind that will fit in slim PC case?  Trying to regain some real estate.  I have no real preference of ATI or NVidia.  Most searches turn up the smaller cards but with DVI only.  Might have to go used.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 12, 2008, 12:54:02 pm
mine is duel dvi with s-video so I use a dvi to vga adaptor.

it can be seen in this picture

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/pc-x1950pro-scs3/tul_x1950pro_scs3_bundle_sm.jpg
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 12, 2008, 03:54:48 pm
As I am so far out of the hardware scene it is sickening, can someone recommend a good (AGP preferrably) card with VGA out but the "small" kind that will fit in slim PC case?  Trying to regain some real estate.  I have no real preference of ATI or NVidia.  Most searches turn up the smaller cards but with DVI only.  Might have to go used.

You should go used anyway. Tons of decent, and newer, stuff on ebay if you look. However, small form factor cards I think are hard to come by in general. Not much call for them. Still, look.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 12, 2008, 07:19:06 pm
You should go used anyway. Tons of decent, and newer, stuff on ebay if you look. However, small form factor cards I think are hard to come by in general. Not much call for them. Still, look.

Will do.  Thanks for the tip.  One question though... if I get one with DVI out, should I be able to use a DVI/VGA converter, then connect my VGA cable to my arcade monitor?  I guess the short way to say it, will the DVI out cock up the signal at all?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 12, 2008, 11:33:17 pm
no everything is fine with the adaptor display wise.

if your monitor is vga hook-up then it is fine it if is red green blue ground H and V wire then you would need a vga breakout cable.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 13, 2008, 12:22:43 am
It's a Japanese arcade monitor (DSUB15) although I mainly use a converter w/ a female JPN21 RGB connector on the other end so I can hook up my supergun and PC to it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 13, 2008, 11:48:20 pm
I run a japanese nanao MS8-26SU
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 14, 2008, 01:17:12 pm
Can someone with an arcade monitor running 15khz test frogger in mame 125 and verify if this a problem for them as well

Game seems to be zoomed in. I tested with 122 and all is fine running at 224x264. I think its a bug in MAME



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 14, 2008, 01:19:04 pm
Can someone with an arcade monitor running 15khz test frogger in mame 125 and verify if this a problem for them as well

Game seems to be zoomed in. I tested with 122 and all is fine running at 224x264. I think its a bug in MAME

Try running it at 352x256.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 14, 2008, 03:43:18 pm


Try running it at 352x256.

Yeah. Shoulda been I'd think in both cases.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 14, 2008, 06:35:27 pm
Yea I made a typo, I was running it t 352x256. Can you test it with mame 125 and see what you get
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 14, 2008, 10:34:30 pm
Yes, Frogger in MAME 0.125 is screwed up (it lists the resolution as 224x768 now).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 15, 2008, 02:37:22 am
Yes, Frogger in MAME 0.125 is screwed up (it lists the resolution as 224x768 now).

What lists it as that? (Yeah, funky here, too.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 08:08:55 am
I tried to sign up at http://mametesters.org/mantis/main_page.php. to report it, but I wasnt able to create an account that let me login.
If anyone has an account please report to the mame team.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 10:41:04 am
What lists it as that? (Yeah, funky here, too.)

mame -listxml frogger

I tried to sign up at http://mametesters.org/mantis/main_page.php. to report it, but I wasnt able to create an account that let me login.
If anyone has an account please report to the mame team.

I already reported it and they closed it saying it was supposed to be that way now LOL.
So I guess I'll be staying with 0.124 now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 15, 2008, 11:16:51 am
looks like another addition to my cabmame TODO list ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 02:05:45 pm
WTF

How is it supposed to be that way?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 02:53:40 pm
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=151831&page=0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 03:03:59 pm
Ok

So what resolution are we supposed to run it at?

I hope AG has the answer
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 03:33:33 pm
1024x768 at a minimum I would assume.
I believe this affects much more than just Frogger BTW as it's part of the galaxian driver.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 09:00:25 pm
Would it matter in making a custom rez like 224x768?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 02:20:41 am
Well... If you play it vertical, it doesn't matter, as you can create a resolution like 768x240.

However to play it horizontal, you'll have to cheat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 02:57:06 am
A quick'n'dirty cheat to 0.125 ->

commandline...
http://files.arianchen.de/tmp_cabmame.rar

UI...
http://files.arianchen.de/tmp_cabmameui.rar


However you still need to specify a screen mode (352x256 or something like that), as it would select 1024x768 by itself.


P.S. Galaxian looks... err... yeah I don't know if the starfield is right now, but at least it looks pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 16, 2008, 09:04:44 am
Okay, I'm going to ask some really noobie questions, so I apologize in advance.

Just got my J-PAC hooked up, this is my first MAME cabinet setup.  When I install Soft15khz, do I need to do anything else?  Like specify to use it in my front-end or anything?  Or do I just install, reboot, and run my front-end?  Is the regular version of MAME okay, or do I need to use a modded version, like advmame?

Just wondering cause my screen was not synced correctly when it came up... but I figured out it was because I need to set some jumpers on the J-PAC.  Do I just set jumpers for 15khz, too?

Sorry again, but thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 16, 2008, 09:52:08 am
Sailor

One other thing I noticed when upgrading from mame 122 to mame 125 is theres no more sound stuttering. I didnt need to use your soundsync hacks. Why is that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 09:59:32 am
Okay, I'm going to ask some really noobie questions, so I apologize in advance.
That's okay :) Some time is always the first time .)


Just got my J-PAC hooked up, this is my first MAME cabinet setup.  When I install Soft15khz, do I need to do anything else?  Like specify to use it in my front-end or anything?  Or do I just install, reboot, and run my front-end?  Is the regular version of MAME okay, or do I need to use a modded version, like advmame?
You only need to install Soft-15kHz once, then reboot.
After that, you can use the system just as before.
You don't need to change anything.


Just wondering cause my screen was not synced correctly when it came up... but I figured out it was because I need to set some jumpers on the J-PAC.  Do I just set jumpers for 15khz, too?
Yeah, 15kHz Jumper on, others off should do it.

If everything is OK the two SYNC Leds on the J-PAC should light up.


One other thing I noticed when upgrading from mame 122 to mame 125 is theres no more sound stuttering. I didnt need to use your soundsync hacks. Why is that?
Don't know. Maybe someone supplied a generic patch to MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 16, 2008, 10:04:33 am
Thanks, SailorSat, really appreciate it!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 16, 2008, 10:10:08 am
A quick'n'dirty cheat to 0.125 ->

THANK YOU!!!!!   :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 16, 2008, 10:24:58 am
Will you be releaseing  a diff file to hack the frogger/galaxian rez?

Thanks for your great work BTW
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 10:28:49 am
IF you are satisfied with it, i can provide that hack as standalone diff :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 16, 2008, 05:16:27 pm
This is getting really funny. Seems like the devs are starting to actively thwart native res support or something. Which could be good, cos then there will be other builds that cater to us. Someone may even pick up Advancemame, or create something similar.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 05:20:46 pm
Scrap AdvanceMAME, it's simple not worth trying to update it with all those changes since 0.106
More like would be a patch to SDLMAME so use SVGALIB to create it's modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 17, 2008, 01:22:59 am
Scrap AdvanceMAME, it's simple not worth trying to update it with all those changes since 0.106
More like would be a patch to SDLMAME so use SVGALIB to create it's modes.

That might fall into the category of something similar, etc. I'm quite fine with .104, but am all for a newer version if possible. Besides, having to compile something just to use it is so lame.

Now, a more thread-relevant question: I installed soft-15 on a matrox G550, the OS is XP. The matrox drivers seemed to load fine. Soft15 modes loaded. However, after restart, they aren't available.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 17, 2008, 01:34:47 am
Does it at least output 640x480 in 15kHz?

Guess you just hit the Matrox drivers "Pixel Clock Limit".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 17, 2008, 01:38:42 am
So, I was going to put a jumper on the J-PAC to set it to 15khz... but I don't know which jumper setting it is.  I can't seem to find a list of jumper settings anywhere... it says to look on the J-PAC, but it doesn't say which position to put it in.  Sorry again... can anyone tell me where to put the jumper?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 17, 2008, 02:30:55 am
http://www.ultimarc.com/images/jpachi.jpg

The jumpers should be self explaining.
(Although you can ignore the USB/PS2 etc. jumpers, they are gone on newer models).

The lowest one is to "enable" 15kHz, the center one is to enable 25kHz and the topmost is for 31kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 17, 2008, 10:42:29 am
Thanks... I'm an idiot.  I was looking at the area on the left and going to put jumpers on there.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 19, 2008, 12:28:25 am
Does it at least output 640x480 in 15kHz?

Guess you just hit the Matrox drivers "Pixel Clock Limit".

I dunno. Possibly. I thought Matrox were supposed to be hot ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Maybe just the 350 and 450? I took the card out of that system, but I'll have to sometime try interlace on it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 05:18:59 am
Hi SailorSat,
I don't know if it was already asked, but I want to ask you if  there is any way to use this piece of software with an ArcadeVGA.

It would be fantastic to have this option to add custom resolutions, like a 50Hz Amiga resolution.

Thx anyway for you great work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2008, 11:33:59 am
Nope, doesn't work with the AVGA (yet).
However, for AMIGA PAL just use 800x600 :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 03:39:24 pm
Right, but I think that the non interlaced 640 x 288 @50Hz (that Soft-15KHz has) it's far away better :)
800x600 it's horrible to see on a 15Khz monitor (and eye killer)  :-\

doesn't work with the AVGA (yet).
So are you planning to introduce ArcadeVGA support in next releases? It would be fantastic! THE solution for all monitor resolution relative issues :notworthy:

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 03:43:18 pm
Double post, sry...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2008, 04:50:24 pm
Depends on the monitor :)
Interlace looks nice on my hantarex polo...

Whatever...
Once I figure out how the f*ck the ArcadeVGA driver differs from the normal (it's actually a catalyst 6.1)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 20, 2008, 06:29:35 am
I think you can ask informations in Ultimarc. I think they would sell more ArcadeVGA cards with Soft-15KHz support.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 20, 2008, 05:42:17 pm
I dunno about that. I've asked Andy about supporting a second set of resolutions - high refresh resolutions like SS has provided - and he said that was beyond the basic design principle.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ninja-chicken on May 21, 2008, 04:11:52 am
I used soft 15 and set my nVidia GeForce 8500GT to display 15kHz and it worked pretty well. I still get a kinda red blur around everything though.

My questions are:

1) What's with the red blur :P
2) Is there any way I can get this to work with DOS at all?

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 22, 2008, 09:41:01 pm
The red could be a fault in your card - or it can't totally handle 15khz. Try another card; try another monitor with that card, if you can. As for dos, there are other things you have to worry about long before video display. You might look into an optimized linux.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moloch on May 23, 2008, 01:59:44 am
maybe I missed this in some of the earlier replies, but I did not see it any where.

Where can I get access to the interlaced resolutions? Or how am I not seeing these.

If I set my monitor to anything greater then "x" by 288 it looks like crap on my arcade monitor.

I am doing this using an Nvidia GeForce 4 MX and using quickres. I do not see anything that says interlaced. I only see 16 and 32 bit resolutions.

I am doing this in a new machine that I am building, and I am running it through an J-Pac.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ninja-chicken on May 23, 2008, 04:26:47 am
The red could be a fault in your card - or it can't totally handle 15khz. Try another card; try another monitor with that card, if you can. As for dos, there are other things you have to worry about long before video display. You might look into an optimized linux.

Well I've had too many problems with a software solution so I bottled it and bought an ArcadeVGA card. In the meantime I'm worried that the weird red blur im getting is down to the monitor, not the graphics card. The reason I think this is because I used "Advanced Cab" to display 15kHz on DOS and I get the same red blur, whether I use on-board or my GeForce 8500 GT.

I guess I'll know for sure whether it's the monitor when I get my ArcadeVGA card, but it's not looking good :(

If it is the monitor, do you think it's repairable?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 23, 2008, 05:52:36 am
@Ninja-chicken:
Hm... You got an 8500GT to display 15kHz? Maybe I should look into the GeForce8 Series again :)


@moloch:
What do you mean by "look like crap"?
Also, all Modes with more than 288 lines (iE. 480, 600, 768 etc.) are interlaced, those will flicker more than the others.

If you can see a picture at 640x480, you're fine, if not, your MX card doesn't support interlace.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moloch on May 23, 2008, 10:17:42 am
Then I am guessing it is the card, because at anything greater then 288 I can see the images but it is unusable. I will otry to take a picture of it later to post.

This does make sense, because when I said looks like crap - the crap part is that I am seeing like half the lines and the other half seem to flicker.

I have a box of old video cards laying around somewhere, I will test some more then.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 23, 2008, 06:20:34 pm
I wonder how Nvidia 9800 GX2 works with Soft 15khz.

Sailor when do you think you can make ur frogger/galaxian hack into a .diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 24, 2008, 06:52:57 pm
I wonder how Nvidia 9800 GX2 works with Soft 15khz.

Sailor when do you think you can make ur frogger/galaxian hack into a .diff


??....why not just get the full build?  Actually, as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 24, 2008, 09:32:21 pm
I compile my own mame, So I would like to have the ability to just add the .diff

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 24, 2008, 09:41:42 pm
... as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.

Advancemame doesn't work with many videocards under windows,  and Advancemame only works with OLDER versions of Mame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 26, 2008, 07:14:37 pm
... as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.

Advancemame doesn't work with many videocards under windows,  and Advancemame only works with OLDER versions of Mame.

First off, the thing you're missing is that the starfield way back in Advancemame .106 appears to be correct. Did he re-write the driver? What did he do? Haze seems to be ignoring this.

Next, all the cards I've tried work just fine, both ATI and Nvidia over a range of models. I think it's not understanding how to initially configure Advancemame, which is well-documented but not well-presented, that gets people. My experience over time went from, 'How the hell does this work?!', to, "I can get this work....", to, "I can pretty much get it to do anything".

Like the night before where I was having conflicts between games because having a pclock of 5-50 got me better results and a more usable device_video_format than 0-50. However, for a few games - for example, the Mr. Do series - I just made the following entry for:

(ie) dowild/device_video_clock 0-50 / 15.72-18 / 50-90

Whereas before this I was using the sdl mode 240x240, now I was getting a generated mode that worked right off. However, I might go back and see if maybe I was wrong on the 0-50 pclock not working as well. I dunno...it's weird, but I swear some things have changed over time, despite no hardware changes. (Wrong thing to say, heh.)

Another possible issue is there might be some conflicts between cards and mobos. An ATI card I have that ran flawlessly in a 1.5ghz P4 had some troubles with a different make P4 computer. However, all my nvidia's work fine in all the computers I've tried.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 26, 2008, 10:22:54 pm
There's no doubt that AdvanceMame is a pain in the rissole to configure.  It is not officially supported under windows, and only goes up to Mame106 for now.  Documentation sucks big-time. I'm no fool, but I've tried AdvanceMame a few times under Windows with ATI cards and all I got was a headache.  I moved on to Powerstrip (and since then, to Soft15khz).

A friend of mine who is a bit of a Linux-guru has been trying to get Linux to do 15khz properly, outside of Advancemame/Advancemenu or WINE (windows emulator 4 Linux), for well over a year (in between other things), but with only limited success.  He seems to have accepted that he is stuck with Advancemame 106 on his Linux-boxes for now.

Soft15khz does what I need for the Windows XP environment, and that includes much more than just playing Mame games.  For example, old kids games like Freddi Fish and Reader Rabbit look simply fantastic on a RGB-CRT TV, and my kids simply *love* playing them this way MUCH MORE than on a PC monitor (bigger screen and the colours are brighter).

At the moment, I use Soft15khz for playing .AVI movies on my 27" Panasonic RGB SCART TV more than playing games anyway.  My movies look damn fine, and many thanks to SailorSat for this  :cheers:



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 27, 2008, 11:39:02 am
Hahaha :)
Watching Battlestar Galactica on my 33" Giant Cab right now :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on May 27, 2008, 12:48:03 pm
So this program, basically turns your GFX card into a Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 02:45:40 pm
Hi,
Has anyone had success with Intel based onboard graphics such as 865G (Integrated Extreme Graphics 2) or higher?
Thanks,
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 27, 2008, 02:56:00 pm
GMA 900 and newer works, but sucks because of max 5 custom resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 03:00:31 pm
Thanks SailorSat!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 04:05:48 pm
What's the recommended Catalyst version to use? I see from SailorSat's webpage that 6.1 was used in testing but have read in the forum thread that versions 8.x have been used too.
I am going to try a 9800 video card on XP.
Thanks!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 27, 2008, 04:54:58 pm
What's the recommended Catalyst version to use?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg824199#msg824199

Read a few posts down from there.  I got my 9800 Pro working with version 6.5.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 07:17:22 pm
Awesome! Thanks ahofle and thanks SailorSat for the links to ATI archive for older versions of Catalyst!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: G A R R E T A on May 28, 2008, 03:54:45 am
is soft-15khz only for dedicated video cards only or will onboard video work as well?   I have ati radeon xpress200...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 28, 2008, 06:46:41 pm
is soft-15khz only for dedicated video cards only or will onboard video work as well?   I have ati radeon xpress200...

Read her post above as well as the hardware compatibility section in her thread over there.

And on that note, how do you know which resolutions are available on the Intel sets? The first five in sequence? (I forgot to test thoroughly with my 945 chipset and don't recall which worked or not.)


@Zeb: oh sure, soft15 is very useful for lots of things. Because I'm not using the dos version of Advancemame, I have to set the desktop to something my arcade monitor can handle so I can run advcfg. In any case, if your bud's got it running, how come he didn't show you or get yours going? Also, if interested, check out my tutorial in Advancemame for beginners. It's really very easy.


@lettuce: no, it enables your card to operate in the same manner as the avga. Check out PC2JAMMA. It was doing exactly the same thing as soft15 back in '99. And you've been around here long enough to know about this stuff. Whatchu been doin?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 28, 2008, 09:48:25 pm
@Zeb: ....  if your bud's got [Advancemame] running, how come he didn't show you or get yours going? Also, if interested, check out my tutorial in Advancemame for beginners. It's really very easy.

Because my mate uses Linux.  He did show me how to get advancemame running, but that was under Linux.  I prefer to use the latest version of Mame under Windows.  He probably wouldn't like me saying this, but he's a bit envious of my setup under windows.

I've got a CDROM lying around somewhere to setup Advancemame under a limited Linux install.  It isn't the AdvanceCD thing that you can download - same idea, but a couple of steps more sophisticated/less hacked.  But I don't use it.  I would use it if I wanted to set up a simple Mame-box on an old PC, perhaps dedicated to playing old-time 80's classics like Galaga.

I think that Advancemame has some cool features.  For example, changing video resolution on the fly. But I just don't need Advancemame in Windows so much that I'll spend another few days trying to get it to work, possibly without any success.  Maybe probably - it depends a lot on your video card I think.

Where is your tutorial found?  I might give it a go sometime if it makes sense.





Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 29, 2008, 12:38:52 pm
Zebidee, give the Advancecd a try. It works great (I use it on two cabs, both booting from a USB thumb drive). I think in the end using something like Soft15Khz or an ArcadeVGA card gives you more flexibility because you can run most emulators and PC games too right off the Arcade monitor.
Advancemame under windows, not really worth it my opinion...
Good luck!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 30, 2008, 06:55:57 pm
@amadama: oh, certainly it is worth it.

@zeb: dude, tell me about it. It took me some months to figure out everything - I was just too damn curious not to. Here's the thread Advancemame for beginners (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75993.msg789324;topicseen#msg789324) with current corrections/additions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on May 31, 2008, 11:55:17 am
Removed
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 31, 2008, 01:28:48 pm
is there some adventage to running a older version of the catalyst like 6.1 over the most current drivers?

I still am runnnig the Sapphire X1950 pro 512MB DDR3 AGP version with catalyst 8.4 + hot fix and anything I throw at it displays great and I dont have any out of sync or terrible display issue's at all.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 31, 2008, 02:27:53 pm
SOME cards (for example my X600 pro) don't work with newer catalysts.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on May 31, 2008, 11:58:16 pm
Nice software.  I have a Raedon 800XT running through a J-PAC on my 25k7195 monitor.  So far the games I have tried run perfect.   Windows looks really good too and I have no trouble reading any text.   I will test out more games tomorrow.




Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 01, 2008, 10:40:36 pm
I have tried some other games.  Most work flawlessly like (Killer Instinct, Neo Geo, lots of old games).  I am having a problem with the Mortal Kombat series.  They load and display fine except the bottom part the the screen is cut off (I only can see from their waist up....  Quickres shows 400x254 so I believe my card supports it. 

My Hardware: ATI 800XT, Catalist 7.1, JPAC, and a 25K7195 monitor.  Windows is in 640x480 and displays just fine. 

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2008, 12:04:34 am
You may have to adjust your monitor. The problem would be that arcade games weren't meant to be swaped every five minutes :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 02, 2008, 08:31:21 pm
That helped.  I can clearly see that the bottom of the screen is showing but I still am getting some graphics cut off at the bottom.  Maybe its just a limitation of the monitor? 

Also all CPS & CPS2 games are outputing in 25Khz or 31Khz because my JPAC is splitting the screen when those are displayed.  I only have the 15Khz modes loaded so I am not quite sure why those are doing that.   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2008, 12:04:24 am
hm...
don't know for sure what happend there. try running mame with "-verbose" flag and see what resolution it chooses.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 03, 2008, 04:04:52 pm
okay. Everything works perfect now.  I discovered that my version of MAME was a little out dated (my stupidity).  The latest release .125 works excellent.  I can't find a game that does 'not' work now.   I really appreciate the work you put into this excellent piece of software. 

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 05, 2008, 06:55:30 pm
hi is got the soft15hz to work with my matrox d200 pci im guessing its working because my pc moonitor says out of frequency and i had to uninstall via safe mode, im in the uk and have a scart tv which accepts rgb. i dont understand all the diffrent 15hz 25hz etc  but im trying my best to understand what id like to know is can i just use 15hz all the time on my scart tv and play psx and dreamcast emulators?

to the creater of this program hats off to yoou to makiing it public i wouldent mind donating  ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 05, 2008, 08:01:24 pm
whats the most powerfull pci-e card that works perfect with soft15khz then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 06, 2008, 05:05:33 am
As for now, I would recomend any ATI series card (the highest I tried was an HD2400 which loses some of the very low resolutions but works fine with "higher" ones.) or an NVidia GeForce up to the GeForce 7 Series.

However some ppl reported that GeForce-8 sometimes work (8500GT), others don't (8600GT).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on June 06, 2008, 09:02:41 am
Salior

I dont mean to be a pain, but will you be coming out with new cabmame and a .diff to hack the frogger and galaxian not displaying on horz arcade monitors?
Also has anyone given your feedback on Nvidia 9800gx2 cards with soft 15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Luigi on June 06, 2008, 09:57:31 am
Also has anyone given your feedback on Nvidia 9800gx2 cards with soft 15khz?

I made a list of the tested graphics adapters so far....there's a 9800 Pro, I don't now if 9800gx2 is similiar  ???

http://www.thludwig.de/arcade/Getestete_Grafikkarten_Soft15kHz.htm
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on June 07, 2008, 12:51:22 pm
9800 pro is ATI ard. 9800 GX2 is nvidia card. Fastest there is right now
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 07, 2008, 06:17:36 pm
9800 pro is ATI ard. 9800 GX2 is nvidia card. Fastest there is right now

bent on having the mostest, eh?

hi is got the soft15hz to work with my matrox d200 pci im guessing its working because my pc moonitor says out of frequency and i had to uninstall via safe mode, im in the uk and have a scart tv which accepts rgb. i dont understand all the diffrent 15hz 25hz etc 

Google those. Make sure you type KHZ - as those are scan rates, whereas refresh is in HZ. Also, there's tons in the wiki.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on June 08, 2008, 01:09:35 am
I just want to know if I install Soft15khz would I be able to go back with some command to a vga res in case it doesn't work properly on my arcade monitor?
And also, how I make for it to start up with windows and set the arcade monitor resolution automatically?

Sorry if any of this questions are stupid. Thanks

ATI9600XT
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on June 08, 2008, 11:00:52 am
I just want to know if I install Soft15khz would I be able to go back with some command to a vga res in case it doesn't work properly on my arcade monitor?
And also, how I make for it to start up with windows and set the arcade monitor resolution automatically?

Sorry if any of this questions are stupid. Thanks

ATI9600XT

yes on the program itself it can be installed/uninstalled and if you get in a jam you can restart the pc in safe mode to add/remove.

after you install soft15K set your desktop res. setting to 640X480 true color 32-Bit and then shut it down disconnect your vga and hook up your arcade monitor and then power the pc back up and it should display your desktop in 15K 640X480.

if your pc will not allow you to choose 640X480 download QUIKRES install it and set the desktop res to 640X480 that way.

after that the program will select and change res's on it's own for that particular program or game your running.

there's also a program from ultimarc that automatically does the right res selections for mame stuff so they dont have to be done manually all the time. 

I completed Resident Evil 4 in 15K on a cab with a 6 button street fighter setup and it was awsome all the way through but you need a high end card and a $75.00+ PSU to power it to play high end games though..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on June 08, 2008, 06:23:13 pm
It works great! Thanks man, and thanks also to the developer of this very useful little app.  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Rogue72 on June 09, 2008, 05:01:23 am
I also just would like to thank SailorSat :applaud: for this little gem,

after ruuning a cab in dos with arcadeos/advmame, after upgrading the pc
and having problems with dos drivers , i needed to be running
windoze.. so i had resigned myself to buying the arcadevga

after google'in and stumbling on this, had it running in no time at all
(then reading 18 pages of posts to fine tune/tweak the mame setup )

do you have a homepage/www with a donate button, as this as saved me
plenty not having to buy the avga, and lets me carry on using my nvidia cards

just a little question i havent been able to find an answer for is..
does cabmame  support the highscore.dat/highscores saving

currently using maximus arcade as a front end , and mame32UIFX
whilst i am more then happy with the front end, with so many mame
ports/version out there i wonder if i am using the best mame

the only things i really require is highscore saving , win32, i am not a emulation
purist,  so i want things to play well,  so if sound hacks / resolution (frogger) hack
help the game im happy

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 09, 2008, 11:29:14 am
Yeah CabMAME supports hiscore saving.

As for a donate button... actually there is :)
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 09, 2008, 05:38:09 pm
after you install soft15K set your desktop res. setting to 640X480 true color 32-Bit and then shut it down disconnect your vga and hook up your arcade monitor and then power the pc back up and it should display your desktop in 15K 640X480.

What? Does Windows just sense the type of display connected and switch to interlace?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on June 09, 2008, 10:15:54 pm
Okay, hopefully this is the last noob question I'll ask for a while...

I finally got MAME (using MaLa) running on my Killer Instinct 2 cab, but the only caveat is that it seems to be overscanning.  The tops and bottoms (maybe some of the sides?) are getting cut off, even before MaLa starts.  Do I need to change the config files for Soft15khz?  I was using the config files that someone sent me, and they seem to work fine other than this.

Oops, disregard, I fixed the problem.  I did it in a different way though, I just went back to the desktop and changed the resolution down to 800x600.  Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 10, 2008, 12:16:03 am
What? Does Windows just sense the type of display connected and switch to interlace?

No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.


I finally got MAME (using MaLa) running on my Killer Instinct 2 cab, but the only caveat is that it seems to be overscanning.

Well yeah, arcade games were never meant to be switched daily so most monitors handle each resolution differently.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 10, 2008, 06:34:57 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 10, 2008, 10:30:32 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?

Only if you install the 31khz resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 12, 2008, 07:30:58 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?

Only if you install the 31khz resolutions.

Ah, of course. I had to look back at the stock list. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 26, 2008, 02:01:28 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 26, 2008, 03:31:56 pm
im using soft15hz with an old 32mb card and i love it. but i plan to upgrade now so i can play pc games too

can anyone tell me if this card will work?


http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139552/show_product_reviews
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2008, 03:50:46 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?

Depends on the drivers.
It could work, but haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 26, 2008, 03:53:22 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?

Depends on the drivers.
It could work, but haven't tried yet.

So No one has tried using with Vista yet then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 28, 2008, 05:55:07 pm
im using soft15hz with an old 32mb card and i love it. but i plan to upgrade now so i can play pc games too

can anyone tell me if this card will work?


http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139552/show_product_reviews

Look back at some of bent98's posts. I remember he had one that didn't fully display the list of resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 28, 2008, 06:09:41 pm
I believe someone posted a few pages back that that card worked flawlessly with all the default resoultions! I wounder if the GT version works aswell??

EDIT: Sorry it was the 7600 GS card
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 28, 2008, 06:10:59 pm
So whats the best PCI-E based card that works with all the default resolutions (all that the ArcadeVGA card supports), and as low as 240x240??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on June 28, 2008, 06:28:23 pm
A 7600GS is exactly the same as a 7600GT, except for the mhz. So if a GS supports 240x240, the GT must too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 29, 2008, 11:11:21 am
im using a matrox g200 and all is working fiine except i cannot run mame with direct 3d or any games that use direct 3d. the directx tests are all working but i just get a white screen when i try and play d3d games  my card plays all d3d games when on my pc monitor without soft15hz any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 29, 2008, 11:45:53 am
So whats the best PCI-E based card that works with all the default resolutions (all that the ArcadeVGA card supports), and as low as 240x240??

ATI Radeon X600 Pro works fine.


im using a matrox g200 and all is working fiine except i cannot run mame with direct 3d or any games that use direct 3d. the directx tests are all working but i just get a white screen when i try and play d3d games  my card plays all d3d games when on my pc monitor without soft15hz any ideas?

Hm... Don't know.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano728 on July 08, 2008, 12:25:52 am
I am sure this is a dumb question, but I went to the website and the newbie guide is in german.  Gruss Gott! is there a translated version somewhere?  I have a geforce 7300GT and I want to see if I need this for it...  I have a newer niemandisplays 25" monitor, but I don't think the card can access all of the resolutions without this tool...

Thanks in advance and my apologies if this question has been addressed before - with 18 pages it is a little long to go through every post.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 08, 2008, 09:18:24 am
iv looked on the german website with the lst of cards and it says the NVidia GeForce 8600GT PCI-Express works

can anyone tell me if  there is any diffrence with other 8600 cards of diffrent brands

i want to get either a Nvidia GF 8600GTS

or a

 Nvidia 7900GS

can anyone tell me if either of theese will work i want to order asap

thanks!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 08, 2008, 12:11:22 pm
I'd rather use the 7900.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 08, 2008, 12:26:40 pm
I'd rather use the 7900.

ok cool will any 7900 work as the diffrent models confuse me.

regarding the newer 8800gt's etc isit a case of they simply will not work or isit a case of not displaying the low resolutions would they display 600x480 or something simular.

reason been my set up is for a media pc connected to a scart tv its also my only pc and i want the best card i can get that will work.

i currently use soft15hz and everything in mame works fine ( what an amazing  piece of software this is!) so the only reason im upgrading my card is to play pc games.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 08, 2008, 02:15:45 pm
As far as I know the GeForce 8 (and 9) series will upscale everything below 512x384.
It DOES support 640x480 though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 08, 2008, 05:54:15 pm
I am selling a 7900GTX if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deadsoulz on July 10, 2008, 05:01:30 pm
It should work with XP64.
Never tried it on Vista though :)

Has anyone been able to get this to work on XP64?  I get an error and it just crashes whenever I try to launch it. 

--ds
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 11, 2008, 01:14:51 am
Yeah, works fine on XP 64 for me.

What error do you get?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 11, 2008, 10:52:25 am
try placing it on your C: drive it caused error for me when on desktop but on C: it worked flawless.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 12, 2008, 12:59:16 pm
0.126 version of cabmame soon SailorSat?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2008, 02:46:51 pm
oops now that you mention it... ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 12:03:00 am
I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 13, 2008, 12:16:28 am
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?



I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



Yes. Look up MameUI's help file. It's the same for Mame, except you have to write the files yourself. Use MameUI to set things, then point MaLa at your Mame exe....or, don't, and just use MameUI as your exe.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on July 13, 2008, 12:18:35 am
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 13, 2008, 02:46:03 am
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 10:41:44 am
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.

That did exactly what I wanted.  thank you for such a quick and short response!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 13, 2008, 01:49:50 pm
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on July 13, 2008, 06:14:14 pm
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?

Yes - lcd topgun works no matter what display. It works without a monitor (although you couldnt see it)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 13, 2008, 06:27:46 pm
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))

It seems they aren't offering 6.6 anymore, as I get a re-direct page when clicking on either the drivers or full suite links. 6.1 they are offering, but only the full suite; I get a re-direct page for the drivers alone. Of course, the 6.1 drivers don't work.


<later>

Well, I got the 6.6 drivers from somewhere else - and while they work, they don't let me do what I was hoping they might: use my X1600XT with Advancemame. Thank you for the assistance, though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 11:26:23 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjKLq-LMgjM[/youtube]

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 14, 2008, 10:09:39 am
why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 14, 2008, 02:47:34 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 14, 2008, 06:54:34 pm
Sailor I noticed you have updated Cabmame 1.26. I also see you have included frogger.diff. I love you. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 14, 2008, 08:38:48 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?

That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

bezerk
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2vjofpu.jpg)

gauntlet
(http://i33.tinypic.com/105bokw.jpg)

gng1
(http://i33.tinypic.com/mlr3fn.jpg)

gng2
(http://i33.tinypic.com/j9x18w.jpg)

bubble1
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2myd8ba.jpg)

bubble2
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2wfmhr5.jpg)

lcd displays for photos
(http://i33.tinypic.com/34e2l3d.jpg)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on July 15, 2008, 04:19:27 am
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4140/puckman1920xv2.png)
(http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/82/megamanwf2.jpg)
The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 15, 2008, 11:58:42 am
That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: RandyT on July 15, 2008, 03:12:00 pm
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 15, 2008, 04:31:43 pm
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?


why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.

The last compatible card with Advancemame is a Radeon X850. I thought maybe the drivers were the main factor and wanted to find a set that worked for my X1600XT.


That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.


I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT

The scanlines look good, and, more, the pixels are distinguishable. But the pixel effect seems to make straight lines - for example the sides of the ghosts - jagged.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 15, 2008, 06:30:01 pm
I see I only use mamewah I was just wondering if there was some advantage to it or something.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 15, 2008, 07:02:07 pm
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?

It's a Wells Gardner D9400.  Here's a video of us playing Blasteroids on it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWXlZLPsuA[/youtube]

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.

Thanks.  I had the AGP version of the ArcadeVGA card on my previous cab but sold it along with the cab.  I didn't mind not doing native resolution on the new cab but yearned for it after seeing some old cabs at some diners.

I posted these mostly to show people the difference who aren't into this stuff like the people in this forum.  ...and it's interesting to see ppl's preferences.  Some like the original round pixels in native res, some liked the smoothed look, while others like no artifacts from an LCD.  Yet there are others that like LCD with fake scanlines so they get the original look but on a crisp display.

Just looking at the comparision photos, Bubble Bobble looks better (IMO) native but Bezerk looks better scaled.  ...with gauntlet, the scaled looks more detailed...


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 15, 2008, 07:04:53 pm
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

That's really cool to see.  It looks much better than the filters from mame.  pacman looks amazing.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 16, 2008, 12:23:56 am
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).

Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)

I've done something like that myself, but i took a different approach which won't work for most LCDs.

(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/hyprolym_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/hyprolym_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/joust_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/joust_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/dkong_3x_bifilter_triad3sl.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/dkong_3x_bifilter_triad3sl.png)

Step1 - Upscale the resolution by 3 (vertical) or 4 (horizontal) with a bilinear filter ("prescale 4" in mame.ini, "filter 1" in mame.ini)
Step2 - Apply the RGB Triad; triad3 for vertical, triad6 for horizontal. ("effect triad6" in mame.ini)
Step3 - Set the output resolution the native screen resolution of my CRT Tube ("resolution0 1600x1200x32@60" in mame.ini)

Effects (place in your artwork folder):
Triad3 (Scanline included) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/triad3sl.png)
Triad6 (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/triad6.png)

You may need to right-click ans "save as" the effects.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 16, 2008, 12:59:39 am
Holy crap that looks fantastic Sailor!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on July 16, 2008, 02:49:36 am
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 16, 2008, 10:59:43 am
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.

Interesting.... so the cab monitor isn't rotated 90 degrees to vertical?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Casey120 on July 16, 2008, 05:27:17 pm
Thank you Sailor .
I awas playing around with mame on my LCD for the first time and hated the clean look ,
i downloaded your files and applied your settings for my Samsung 22 " LCD and it made a world of difference .

I am planning to build a nice bartop and know now i can use a LCD to keep it small and a maybe little portable .


Thx  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 17, 2008, 03:15:31 pm
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

@retro on Blanka's scanlines comment: actually, I remember seeing horizontal scanlines on vertically-oriented games. Recently, seeing some old cabs with I think original monitors, I noticed the lines were sorta more like a grid, but with the horizontal lines more emphasized.

On your pictures, were those recent then?  And, at least close up, I like the dimensionality of the LCD images on games like gauntlet and GnG, but Berzerk looks flat. And in my experience, when viewed from a standard distance anything not native res on a CRT looks a bit flat like Berzerk.

@northerngames: Mamewah is an fe. Advancemame is (or was) a mame build.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 17, 2008, 05:01:29 pm
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

You have to right click and 'view image' and then magnify it to 100% to see the full thing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 18, 2008, 12:57:05 am
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 18, 2008, 01:43:57 pm
Sailor your complied cabmame64 is that complied with core2duo support?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 18, 2008, 03:39:35 pm
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 19, 2008, 03:50:10 pm
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)

Yeah, 'show picture' wasn't available. Also, in IE they look artefacted unless I click on the picture again (you know, the little magnifying glass shows + or - ) and then they look good. Similar occurs if I save and view them in an image app; they have to be at 100% to display correctly. They're pretty nice. However, there is still the dimming effect, at least on my PC CRT - ALTHOUGH, perhaps this would be just fine for an LCD, given the backlighting issue.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 20, 2008, 02:30:47 am
ahofle: I've not played DoDonpachi before. It reminds me of ESP Rae. That mode you created does work, almost without need for adjustment, though it ends up running at 71.1hz (which doesn't seem to affect game play). I don't know how you get '@60hz', though, because when I calculate it, it doesn't happen. Actually the refresh will be around 73-75 if wanting 25khz.

I created my own modeline which comes closer to 60hz (as in Strikers1945 there's some stutter using yours), but the scanrate is also lower at 20.9khz, which the Betson is probably not capable of. Still, for anyone using a Billabs, or perhaps any other monitor that might be similarly capable, the modeline is:

modeline '432x324 20,9khz 61,29hz' 11,20 432 464 504 536 324 330 334 341 -hsync -vsync


By the way, instead of using a custom25khz.txt, I put them in the usermodes.txt - with which I guess modes of any scanrate can be added.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 20, 2008, 06:48:56 am
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.

Is it possible for me to complie it again and add the core2 optimization?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 21, 2008, 09:39:23 am
So the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file is basically cabmame in diff format, s i can just use headkaze's Mame Complier 64 and add core 2 duo support and then complie with the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 21, 2008, 03:54:03 pm
Right am running windows xp 64, and when i click on the exe file, i get,

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 22, 2008, 12:05:40 am
That's most likely your regional settings.

That damn decimal seperator is driving me crazy.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 22, 2008, 05:00:34 am
Um ok, how do i fix it  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 22, 2008, 11:13:11 am
I just uploaded Build 41 which should fix the decimal separator once and for all...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: patito on July 23, 2008, 07:23:26 am
hi sailor,great software,thanks!

theres any chance to get a better 800x600 15khz modeline?

the current one is missing graphics in the upper and lower parts of the monitor,even adjusting the v.size knob.

thanks again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 11:12:46 am
can you even get a monitor to output 15khz @ 800x600?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 11:16:11 am
Bugger!, still get the error,

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

Even with the 0.41 release, but it does change the screen res to about 640x40 this time when i click on the exe file  ???  ???
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2008, 11:29:28 am
hum... do you have any costum modelines?

soft15khz shouldn't change your screen res at all...


As for 800x600... Well you COULD get full 800x600, but with something like 45Hz which most monitors won't sync anymore.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 01:25:35 pm
No, no custom modeline, this wil be the first time ive used soft15khz program, so i just have the exe file and thats it
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 02:25:58 pm
Ok, started windows XP 64 in safemode and now the program loads, but all options are greyed out, guessing cos im in safemode!?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2008, 02:52:38 pm
Hm... What card and especially what driver are you using? Guess your Error 13 is related to something new :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 23, 2008, 11:43:14 pm
can you even get a monitor to output 15khz @ 800x600?

I play alot of newer pc games at the res on my nanao at 15K and they look fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 09:58:10 am
Hm... What card and especially what driver are you using? Guess your Error 13 is related to something new :)

My card is an Nvidia 7600GT, no sure what drivers i have installed i just installed the ones on the cd that came with the card, which nforce drivers are best to use?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 11:39:18 am
@lettuce:
Should work with any of them.
Please try *some magic test version* and see if it works now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 11:58:42 am
It now loads the Soft15khz config window  :applaud:, but all the options are greyed out and a box pops up telling me my drivers are out of date  :hissy:. Is it just a case of updating the drivers for the 7600GT?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 12:07:48 pm
Hm... Once more with feeling.
(It most likely won't work but hopefully give me some clues :))
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 12:55:38 pm
Ok, now gives me the message:

*meep*
dummy=

I click on ok and then the same window appears again, then press ok again and it loads the soft15khz window but still tells me my drivers are out of date

I prefered the beta release before, least it didnt call me a dummy twice  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 01:24:16 pm
Okay... Next one...

*EDIT*
Just noticed I can reproduce the error on my xp64 machine with a 6600GT, I'll investigate...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 02:00:00 pm
Okay :D

*another secret build* should do it now.


Actually... I somehow don't get a version reply on the nvidia driver file (nv4_disp.dll) on XP 64, even if I use all APIs correctly (and corrected the path vom SysWOW64 to System32).

As for now, I'll use nvapi.dll which seems to work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 02:16:16 pm
 :applaud:

Sorted all working now, thanks for your help, looks like this is version 0.42 then?  :cheers:

Will this work on an LCD screen aswell then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 02:27:26 pm
Yeah well it doesn't matter if you're using a CRT or an TFT/LCD/Plasma or whatever display :)

*EDIT*
Alpha 42 online :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 02:50:50 pm
Can confirm it also works with Vista 64!. Where can i get hold of the standard 15-31khz txt file?? Noticed in the Quickres list of screen resoultions each resolution is listed 3 times in a row, any ideas. Also my Nvidia 8800GT displays the lower resoultion, 240x240!!!! I take it all these resolutions below 640x480 done go above 60hz??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 03:12:41 pm
Huh? Wow... Need to get some GeForce8 cards for testing!

I've seen this "resolutions doubled/trippled"-bug several times now, but I can't find the bug in quickres :/

As for the "lower" resolutions, they all are 60Hz (240/480 lines) or 50Hz (288/576 lines).


Guess I pasted the base modelines several times now... but hey, show must go on :D

Code: [Select]
'15KHz Progressive
/*modeline '320x200' 6.2 320 336 368 410 200 216 219 254 -hsync -vsync*/
modeline '240x240' 4.83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240' 5.3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256' 5.36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264' 5.35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240' 5.84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240' 5.95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240' 6.2 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240' 6.45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256' 6.68 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240' 6.83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288' 7.4 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240' 7.47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288' 7.85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '401x256' 8.08 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240' 9.16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240' 10.68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288' 10.68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264' 13 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13.22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288' 13.1 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
 


'15KHz Interlace
modeline '512x448' 10,6 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 10,6 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 14,6 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 20,9 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync


 
'25KHz Progressive
modeline '448x384' 12,95 448 456 504 520 384 387 390 415 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync



'31KHz Progressive
modeline '512x448' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x768' 41,8 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 03:38:38 pm
So i just save that as a txt file then?, what do i need to name it? Quickres gave me all those resoultions without having a txt file within the soft15khz directory is this ususal, if so whats the point of having a txt file, just for your own custom resolutions? Sorry am new to actually using soft15khz, have used the ArcadeVGa card before.So none of these resolutions 15,25 & 31khz output more that 60hz singnal then, just dont want to fry my monitor for the second time  :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 03:59:10 pm
The base modelines are already included within soft15khz, so you need nothing besides the base programm itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 04:03:20 pm
So are all base modeline all 60hz or are do they range, as not all arcade resoultions were 60hz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 04:05:17 pm
None of them is exactly 60.0Hz, most are slightly lower (59.8 for example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 24, 2008, 04:52:50 pm
I dont use any custom user modes and the only time I used quik res was to get the desktop set at 640X480 on the initial set-up other then that everything worked fine stock for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 05:32:55 pm
I dont use any custom user modes and the only time I used quik res was to get the desktop set at 640X480 on the initial set-up other then that everything worked fine stock for me.

So then you just used a prgram like, Gavin Benson's AVRES Utility to automatically give mame roms their correct resolution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 24, 2008, 09:52:42 pm
exactly use the one from the ultimarc site and the stock soft15K and it will run like the arcadevga would pretty much.

some cards dont go to low without giving them a file to add what is needed to run them type res's right but sailorsat already had the cure for it and had a the fix for them type if needed.

I tried custom modes and got nowhere so I stuck with all stock stuff and everything runs great with the tool from ultimarc even newer pc games work and look good on my nanao even at 800X600

1024X768 is streteched top to bottom and on some newer pc games it crash's if the video need's to run at 1024X768 so 800X600 is my limit but works on most new pc games fine.

call of duty 2 with a trackball was fun becuase I got the lean into it lol
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 27, 2008, 02:54:49 pm
ok so this works with alot of the nvida cards but will this work with the ati hd3850?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 27, 2008, 02:55:58 pm
Try it, then you'll know.
I can't afford to purchase new cards every month, especially the highend ones.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 27, 2008, 03:00:50 pm
Try it, then you'll know.
I can't afford to purchase new cards every month, especially the highend ones.

I appriciate that, i was just wondering maby sombody else had tryed it, dosent make much sence in me buying the card for my cab to find out if it works, the hd3850 is Ł30 cheaper than the 8800gt now and is nearly as quick, would do gr8 in my cab but i guess if i cant find out if it works ill just pick up an 8800gt.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 27, 2008, 06:59:52 pm
Dont take my word as gospel on the 8800GT working 100% i only tried the 240x240 mode, which appear to work fine, though i dont know a way of finding out it it was actually 240x240, as my monitor was telling me it was 640x480, but i know 100% it was not 640x480!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 27, 2008, 09:45:05 pm
Dont take my word as gospel on the 8800GT working 100% i only tried the 240x240 mode, which appear to work fine, though i dont know a way of finding out it it was actually 240x240, as my monitor was telling me it was 640x480, but i know 100% it was not 640x480!

This doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps it was running at high refresh? What monitor was this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 11:55:44 am
Dell 2405FPW 24" Monitor, just used quickres to display the 240x240 mode and it change the resolution, theres no way for me to 100% confrim it was indeed a 240x240 resolution however, but was definitely lower than 640x480 as i could not see any of my desktop and the window that pops up and asks if you would like to keep this screen resolution took the whole screen up!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 11:56:27 am
Err... yeah. Nevermind :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 02:28:30 pm
Right have just tried all the resolutions from 240x240 and upwards on my BFG 8800GT OC 512MB card and i get a display on all resolutions under Windows Vista 64. On the downside the 7600GT running on my mame PC under windows XP 64, i bought especially for soft15khz, doesnt display a 240x240 picture, just says 'can not display this mode' on my Dell 2405FPW 24" Monitor.

Sailorsat, do you think because my 8800GT is DVI and my 7600GT is VGA would make any difference at all, as thats the way they are connected up to my Dell, one uses the DVI and the other VGA on the back of the dell? Dont really want to buy a 8800GT and have to use a VGA cable (as my monitor doesnt have a DVI connection) to find out it was the cable that was stopping me from displaying the lower resolutions, maybe because its a digital (DVI) rather than analog (VGA) would change anything?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 02:53:34 pm
Well...
Just to get it right.
You're trying to display 15kHz on a 24" Widescreen TFT?

Sorry to say but that simply doesn't work, as only Arcade Monitors and TVs (CRT / LCD / PLASMA doesn't matter) can sync 15kHz.

Your 7600GT works perfectly, as it outputs 15kHz as it should, your 8800GT outputs 31kHz (or more).


However, if you really want to display 15kHz modes on that TFT with your 7600GT, I can provide some doublescanned modelines that will work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 02:59:33 pm
The Dell is just my PC monitor, just using it to test, i have a Pentranic Arcade Monitor which my MAME PC isnt connected to yet. Well i only installed the 15khz screen resolutions. Is that why then i cannot et a display on my Dell when using the 7600GT?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 03:02:46 pm
Jup, just install 15kHz on the 7600GT, reboot, and plug your VGA cable to your arcade screen.
If your arcade screen is multisync you can also install 25kHz and/or 31kHz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 03:15:08 pm
Didnt think you could get 240x240 to display at 31khz just 15kkhz? Ok will do, one thing i noticed was, i had to rebot my PC in VGA safemode, and then uninstalled soft15khz, then i could get a display again. But when i installed soft15khz again, it must have remember the resolution is was set to before, as i could get a display agian. How can i completely uninstall it so it doesnt remember the resolution is was set to before?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 03:23:05 pm
Just remove the whole driver, then just install it new.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 04:00:55 pm
I do, i unstiall it via the program, but when i install it agian, i cannot get a display, i just figured it was because the program remember what the resoultion was set to last time it was installed
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 04:05:19 pm
I mean you should uninstall the whole forceware.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 04:06:23 pm
ah ok
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 28, 2008, 05:13:46 pm
for a prior question use the quikres  tool to set the res of choice and shut down the pc and it will remember what you last set it at manually prior to shutting it down.

set your quik res for 640X480 for desktop

if you start a 800X600 game or whatever res it will display whatever the game runs at if you shut it down or go out of the game it will bring you back to the 640X480 desktop you have it set at on the quik res tool.

are you trying to manually run a specific game at a specific res off the quik res tool or are you letting soft15K do it's thing on it's own without manually setting anything yourself?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 02:18:39 am
SS, I have a couple questions for you:

1. I'm using an ATI X800XL and have been adding several custom resolutions. I'm pretty sure 321x200/240/256 and 401were there in the initial soft15 install, bafter loading the custom resolutions, the 321 and 401 are missing both from Mame and the QR list. Even if I uninstall the custom modes and do a stock soft15 install, they still don't show. There is 320x240, but of coure it doesn't function.

So then I added them to the custom15khz.txt. 321x200 is missing still. The others show up as 300 and 400, respectively. Maybe it's my card? I don't get it.


2. how are you getting those high refresh modes to work when they don't say '1**hz'?

2b. Also, I'm curious becaue if the monitor can do up to 120hz, why have the 352x288 set at 51hz (essentially 106hz on my monitor) ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 04:48:37 am
Still curious on questions 2 and 2b, but I found the answer to 1. I had driver conflicts between two different versions: ATI and Omega (ATI). Everything works now. If anyone's curious about some of my custom modes, here they are:

- this one helps with Golden Tee games: modeline '384x240@60' 7,22 384 416 440 472 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync .  Although the indigenous 360x480 works, this one is better, at least on my monitor.


- this one is a real 60hz version: modeline '384x288@60' 8,75 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303 -hsync -vsync


- this is a special mode for Macross Plus displayed horizontally. (Displayed vertically, 384x240 works awesome; I'm thinking of doing a vert cab...) It's kind of a toss-up between the indigenous 448x384, but on my monitor the scanlines with this one seem a little more pronounced: modeline "496x384@59" 14,68 496 528 576 608 384 392 396 404 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2008, 11:27:29 am
@Ummon: What resolutions are you refering to? (Question 2)

Basically you could double the kHz bei either doubling the vertical refresh, ie. output each frame twice (120hz).
Or you could double it by using "doublescan" which outputs each line twice, i.e. 320x240 doublescanned actually output 320x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 12:20:06 pm
2b. Also, I'm curious becaue if the monitor can do up to 120hz, why have the 352x288 set at 51hz (essentially 106hz on my monitor) ?

Wouldnt setting a 352x288 resolution to 120hz make any mame game you run in that resolution run waaaay too fast?, also fry 99% of users who are using an Arcade monitor! I accidentally put a 800x600 resolution @ 75hz though my Tri-Sync Pentranic (this was before i installed soft15khz) and it fried the horizontal output transistor on it  :o :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2008, 12:44:53 pm
You fried your monitor? O_O

As for the 120Hz refresh... Well cabmame has a "redraw" feature to output every frame twice. For the rest, automatic frameskip would do just fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 01:17:33 pm
Just a transistor, all because the hz was above 60!! Thats why i wanted to make sure that no modes Soft15khz uses use above 60hz!??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 04:09:49 pm
lettuce: there are multisyncs that can handle up to 130hz. I have a presentation monitor that has the following range: 31-52khz, 40-120hz. If you look back in the thread, this has been discussed, and SS even posted some soft15 modes to get native resolutions at high refresh.

SS: I'll try again - those high refresh modes obviously have higher modeline values in them, yet say @59 or @60hz, or in the case of 352x288 still says @51hz - which in practice is really 106hz. However, just as the 15khz version runs at 51hz and is choppy, wouldn't it be better for the high refresh version to run at or around 120hz? (You know, similar to making a 60hz version whose scanrate is 18khz.)

This brings up a couple other related things:

a. I created and put in my own high refresh modeline, but it said '@120hz' and it was superceded by the original, stock modeline. Is that why?...that it has to say something close to 60hz for soft15 to install it?

b. I've notice there is some looseness in the txt file syntax allowed. What exactly are the limits, character-wise?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 07:32:56 pm
So what you are saying it that some of the standard/preset soft15khz modes use more than 60hz then???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 30, 2008, 12:27:32 am
So what you are saying it that some of the standard/preset soft15khz modes use more than 60hz then???

He was talking about the high refresh modelines.



SS: I'll try again - those high refresh modes obviously have higher modeline values in them, yet say @59 or @60hz, or in the case of 352x288 still says @51hz - which in practice is really 106hz. However, just as the 15khz version runs at 51hz and is choppy, wouldn't it be better for the high refresh version to run at or around 120hz? (You know, similar to making a 60hz version whose scanrate is 18khz.)

Yeah, I just doubled the pixel clock on those modes, not the "mode name" field (which isn't used for anything at all).
All of these modes should have 31kHz. So most likely they don't use the full spectrum of your monitor.



This brings up a couple other related things:

a. I created and put in my own high refresh modeline, but it said '@120hz' and it was superceded by the original, stock modeline. Is that why?...that it has to say something close to 60hz for soft15 to install it?
Hm... If you add it in "custom15khz" it will overwrite the stock resolution, if theres any, and will add it as "60hz" to windows (though it is still output as 120).
If you add it in "usermodes" then it will be added with the real refresh rate to windows, and also will not overwrite any stock modeline.



b. I've notice there is some looseness in the txt file syntax allowed. What exactly are the limits, character-wise?
Hm... in the most simple case, just use basic chars and numbers.


modeline "name" pixelclock h_active h_syncstart h_syncend h_total v_active v_syncstart v_syncend v_total options

The name field is ignored, but should not contain any spaces or stuff (could fry my parser).
the resolution added to windows is h_active * v_active.
The vertical refresh rate is calculated by h_total * v_total / pixelclock (doublescan halves the output refresh, interlaced doubles it!)
The options field can contain pretty much everything but soft-15kHz only parses "-hsync", "+hsync", "-vsync", "+vsync", "interlace" und "doublescan" atm.

All values except the pixelclock should be integer values (means no dot/komma whatever).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 30, 2008, 01:52:54 pm
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 30, 2008, 02:18:08 pm
Yep, something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 31, 2008, 03:08:14 am
Quote from: SailorSat link=topic=66402.msg864308#msg864308
Hm... If you add it in "custom15khz" it will overwrite the stock resolution, if theres any, and will add it as "60hz" to windows (though it is still output as 120).
If you add it in "usermodes" then it will be added with the real refresh rate to windows, and also will not overwrite any stock modeline.

There seems to be a caveat, though. You cannot add another of the same resolution as that in the stock set - you can only over-write it. I tried to add two 'alternate' 256x240 resolutions via 'usermodes' but they aren't available.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 31, 2008, 11:51:30 am
Hm... Just stay sure it's not something like "59,67"Hz, that would get rounded to 60Hz.

Whatever, just post me the two modelines and I'll check.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 31, 2008, 12:31:16 pm
I have had same issue. I had to remove orginal resolution. I would love the ability to have multiple refreshrate on same resolution co-exsist
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 31, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
remove 352x288
modeline '352x288 60,61Hz' 8,77 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

Only way i ould get this resolution to take is to add this into my custom15khz.txt

If I tried to add modeline '352x288 60,61Hz' 8,77 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync to usermodes.txt the standard 352x288@60 over rides it.

So I have to remove default and add that new modeline to the custom. If you can fix this then we can add 100's of modelines for every refreshrate.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 01, 2008, 12:08:49 am
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 01, 2008, 02:16:33 am
Hm... Just stay sure it's not something like "59,67"Hz, that would get rounded to 60Hz.

Whatever, just post me the two modelines and I'll check.

Sorry, didn't think to.

Modeline "256x240@60" 5.15 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync

Modeline "256x240@66" 5.61 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync


Also, I'm curious what happened to that auto utility you talked of a while back?  Although, it wouldn't take into account the monitor would it? (I'm suggesting developing a feature like Advancemame has and incorporating it into Cabmame.)


I have had same issue. I had to remove orginal resolution. I would love the ability to have multiple refreshrate on same resolution co-exsist

 Essentially, I thought as long as the refresh is close 60, it should be stable. Then it's just a matter of finding the right resolution that will most fill the screen. I miss Advancemame in this regard because it by default looks for a mode that is closest to 60hz, though within the constraints of your device_video_format. I haven't been able similarly get the modeline generator online to find a resolution from scanrate and refresh, though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 01, 2008, 07:04:43 am
Salior

I know in build 39 you added the ability to add several modlines to the usermodes.txt.  with out a buffer overflow error do the newer builds have this ability? I noticed on the soft15 revsions page build 39 was skipped over.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 01, 2008, 09:28:48 am
all after build 39 have this feature, though I'm not at home right now and can't test in a real life enviroment.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 01, 2008, 10:57:48 am
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz

Is it possible to run the above resolutions in 31khz mode?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 01, 2008, 01:42:26 pm
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.

Great news.

Any ETA on when a new version will be out?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 01, 2008, 11:07:04 pm
I may pick up this old card on a used system.  Does this work with soft15khz?  Is there a list/url where I can checkout other card's compat w/ soft15khz?  thanks!

Sapphire Radeon X700 Pro 256MB PCI-E Video Card


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 01, 2008, 11:31:12 pm
should work as they all run the same drivers I am using the most current wich can also be used on the X700 or any other X-series.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on August 02, 2008, 03:25:42 pm
my 8800gt arrived last weeks all is working perfectly crysis on a cab is awsome!

isit ok to update my graphics card drivers whislt soft15hz is installed or should i uninstall it 1st?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 02, 2008, 04:39:54 pm
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz

Is it possible to run the above resolutions in 31khz mode?

It depends what you mean. If you mean at around 31khz and 60hz, yes. The DVI out of the arcade vga actually does this. I can't see any reason to want it to, cos you can get the same display by using D3D with bilinear filtering off. If, however, you mean your monitor will run up to 120hz or so, and you want to use the high refresh modes, look through the thread for them.


my 8800gt arrived last weeks all is working perfectly crysis on a cab is awsome!

isit ok to update my graphics card drivers whislt soft15hz is installed or should i uninstall it 1st?

You can change drivers as you wish - however, for each time you uninstall/install drivers, regardless if it's the same card being used, you'll need to reload soft15, as when drivers are uninstalled the video registry key values are set back to default. (Make sure, if trying the same brand of drivers, to uninstall what's in before installing something else.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 02, 2008, 07:33:40 pm
It depends what you mean. If you mean at around 31khz and 60hz, yes. The DVI out of the arcade vga actually does this. I can't see any reason to want it to, cos you can get the same display by using D3D with bilinear filtering off. If, however, you mean your monitor will run up to 120hz or so, and you want to use the high refresh modes, look through the thread for them.

Yeah keeping the same refresh rates as ithe standard 15khz in soft-15khz, but in 31khz instead. Im not using an ArcadeVGA card, just a 7600GT card, i just wanted to test what the display would be like using screen resolutions at 240x240 up to 640x480 at 31khz instead of 15khz!?. As like most tri-sync monitors in the 15khz display mode i get a horizontal linearity issue on the far right side of the screen, but it is not there when diplaying the 31khz mode
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 03, 2008, 06:11:37 am
Just found this spreadsheet that calculates screen resolutions for you over at JVS-PAC development site, http://jvspac.kirurg.org/?page=downloads, basically this spreadshhet calculates 31khz screens resolutions at x2. Using these ini settings for mame,

# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
autoframeskip                1
refreshspeed                 1
# WINDOWS PERFORMANCE              OPTIONS
multithreading                1
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
video                    ddraw
prescale                                 2
effect                    scanlines.png
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
hwstretch                 0
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
triplebuffer                 1
switchres                 1

"With this setup, MAME will prefer a mode that is a 2 times the games resolution. If you have a game that is 320x240, MAME will pick 640x480, and render pixels at exactly two times their original size.  This is a good-thing(tm), as there will be no jagged/blurry scaling artifacts"

Am just woundering is there any spreadsheets that calculates screen resolution formular for just standard resolutions and not double them like this spreadsheet does
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 03, 2008, 06:14:58 am
Using the spreadsheet calculator i mentioned above i have taken these 15khz resolutions:

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz

and gotten these using the spreadsheet, remember these are all x2 resolutions of the above for 31khz arcade monitors:

modeline "480x480-60" 19.152 480 496 568 608 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480-60" 20.412 512 528 608 648 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512-60" 20.412 512 528 608 648 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x528-58" 20.412 512 528 608 648 528 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x480-60" 22.68 576 592 680 720 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "592x480-60" 23.436 592 608 696 744 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "608x480-60" 23.94 608 624 712 760 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480-60" 25.2 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x512-60" 25.2 640 656 752 800 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x480-60" 26.46 672 688 792 840 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x512-60" 27.72 704 720 824 880 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x528-58" 27.72 704 720 824 880 528 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x576-51" 27.72 704 720 824 880 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "736x480-60" 28.98 736 752 864 920 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x576-51" 29.988 768 784 896 952 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "784x480-60" 30.744 784 800 920 976 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "800x512-53" 31.752 800 824 944 1008 512 559 561 594 -hsync -vsync
modeline "896x480-60" 35.28 896 920 1056 1120 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x480-60" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync            
modeline "1024x480-51" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 480 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512-58" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 512 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x576-51" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 04, 2008, 12:20:06 am

Does soft15khz work in 64bit Vista?  Does it depend on using proper ATI/Nvidia drivers or can it work with the drivers vista x64 picked for my ATI x700?  thanks!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 04, 2008, 01:24:00 am
The first post says
Quote
As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 04, 2008, 08:29:41 am
The first post says
Quote
As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers"

Thanks.  That's why I specified "proper" ati/nvidia drivers.  Also Vista x64.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 04, 2008, 11:13:17 am
ATI Catalyst and NVidia ForceWare are 'proper' ati/nvidia drivers.  ;)

I'm not sure about x64 though, sorry, have not tried it myself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 04, 2008, 03:57:13 pm
Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).

Quote
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 256@ 76Hz -> 60.998153
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   320x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504


As for Vista 64... Well XP64 works, but I don't know if it will work with (any) Vista at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 04, 2008, 04:15:27 pm
Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...

Oh, please, do tell.


Quote
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).

Quote
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 256@ 76Hz -> 60.998153
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   320x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504



Hmm. I'm assuming that's verbose or whatever from the command line?  I tend to use mame32/UI to set up/test/etc and when I look in the list of resolutions available per game, there are no redundancies. Perhaps this is the same as with QuickRes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 04, 2008, 09:42:51 pm
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.

Did you ever find anything?



I tried Mame UI and also regular mame with cfg files, is there anything special needed to be enetered in the game cfg in mame? I was never successful in getting multiple refresh share same resolution to work.


Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 05, 2008, 12:05:53 am
I only tested with my Radeon yet, tests with others today after work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 05, 2008, 08:11:09 am
I only tested with my Radeon yet, tests with others today after work.

Ok

Thanks Sailor for your time testing. Can you also please let ummon and I know how you tell mame what refresh and resolution to select. It seems to be a an issue for us to activly select different refresh rates other then the defaults.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 05, 2008, 05:58:17 pm
SailorSat, could you explain why when i use the below usermodes, it seems to effect the base line 15, 25, & 31KHZ modes already installed:

modeline "768x480" 29.988 768 784 896 952 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x512" 29.988 768 784 896 952 512 538 540 573 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480" 20.412 512 528 608 648 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480" 25.2 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "800x506" 31.752 800 824 944 1008 506 540 542 575 -hsync -vsync

It basically seems to take away the natural scanlines that games have when displayed on my tri-sync monitor. I cant understand why the above resolutions would effect the preset resolution, as on the games effected im not even using any of the above resolutions in the ini files of said games!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 08:12:31 am

Hi SailorSat.

I finally got Vista x64bit installed along with the 64bit drivers from AMD for my x700 card.  Everything looks ok when i launch soft15khz and selected the various install buttons.  I reboot and using quickres or the ati cat util the lowest resolution that shows up is still 640x480.

I difference than my previous setup... I don't have this new pc hooked up to my Wells Gardner D9400 yet.  It's hooked up to a generic lcd display while it's being worked on.  Could the monitor Vista detects affect the resolutions that are shown available?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 06, 2008, 01:38:34 pm
SailorSat, what if you have 2 resolutions the same, say 640x480 one in 31khz and one in usermode but different refresh rates, how do you identify which resolutions is which from the quickres list?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 06, 2008, 03:12:59 pm
@retrometro: Either the LCD sends some "DDC" informations on what resolution it supports or vista doesn't like the changes at all :)

@lettuce: Err... Like I said, if there are more than one refresh rates per resolution, QuickRes selects the 60Hz one.
As for the other issue, well... there's a limit of 32 modes on nvidia cards, if you define more, you just "---fudgesicle--- up" any modeline defined.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 03:49:47 pm
@retrometro: Either the LCD sends some "DDC" informations on what resolution it supports or vista doesn't like the changes at all :)


Oh man... I didn't want to read that.  so I guess that answers my question of whether anyone's been successful at running soft15khz on 64bit Vista.  :-(  I'll try hooking the pc up to the multisync tonight and see if it makes a difference.

Do you know of people confirming that they've been successful with ATI cards on XP x64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 10:06:50 pm
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: .trunzx on August 06, 2008, 10:45:28 pm
SailorSat,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a question about start up. I have an arcade monitor that could potentially be damaged if I send a 31khz signal to it. However it will accept 15/25khz once windows is loaded and running your software. What would you recommend that I do?, so I don't blow up the monitor during that initial start up. (Video card is an ATI 9200 or 9800 haven't decided which to use yet, and monitor is a Pentranic 33" switchable ega/cga). Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 07, 2008, 12:19:23 am
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 

XP 64 works.



SailorSat,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a question about start up. I have an arcade monitor that could potentially be damaged if I send a 31khz signal to it. However it will accept 15/25khz once windows is loaded and running your software. What would you recommend that I do?, so I don't blow up the monitor during that initial start up. (Video card is an ATI 9200 or 9800 haven't decided which to use yet, and monitor is a Pentranic 33" switchable ega/cga). Thanks

Either use a J-PAC to block the "wrong" frequencies, or use am additional PCI card (any old one will do) to catch the boot and bios screens until windows starts up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 07, 2008, 08:35:24 am
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 

XP 64 works.


Just to update you, I tried downgrading to the earliest vista x64 drivers I could find on AMD's site for the x700 but that didn't work.  I'll install XP 64 tonight with the latest x64 drivers and see how that goes.

BTW, I'm going to donate as soon as I can I promise!  Although my budget and the value of the American dollar these days may not amount to much!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 07, 2008, 03:33:29 pm
I came across a problem that i couldnt work out to start of with but have now figured it out. Basically i was trying out just using 'usermodes' mode, i had the majority of the standard 15khz mode included but had taken some of the standard 15khz mode resolutions out to make space for some custom ones, i had previously complied ini files for all games using Gavin Besons AVRes program. I noticed that some games (according to my Monitor) were displaying FH: 31.7khz & FV: 120.1hz displays even though these games are surpposed to have a FH of 15khz or there abouts. In the end i worked out that is was becuase the screen resolutions in the ini files for these games were the resolutions that i had removed!, now why did soft15khz decided to display these games at 31.7khz and 120.1hz?? My monitor is surpossed to only support upto 60hz yet its displaying double that at 120hz?? I would actually love all my 15khz games to run in 31khz modes, as in 15khz on my tri-sync monitor i get a horizontal linearity issue on the right side of the screen, its basically squished on that side, but in 31khz mode its perfect! Now is it possible to have all the 15khz resolutions, 240x240 up to 640x288 so they display at 31khz but still keep the correct refresh rates for the games??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 07, 2008, 06:24:50 pm
Also what are people using to calculate there modelines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 07, 2008, 09:51:12 pm

Yup, just like you wrote SailorSat.  XP x64 works fine.  I'll have to install Vista x64 again another time.

Is sailorsat@animeger.de still the place to donate via paypal?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 08, 2008, 10:09:14 am
Also what are people using to calculate there modelines?

Anyone?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 08, 2008, 04:48:34 pm
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  

Of course it wasn't. Read the documentation on the app, yo.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 08, 2008, 07:44:13 pm
...XP 64 works great with Soft15Khz!  yay!  but for whatever reason XP x64 is giving poor performance compared to XP 32 and Vista x64.  :-(     :timebomb:

Hey everyone.  First, here are some percentages for 6 games of varying run speeds.  My preference is if you guys can help me figure out what's wrong with my configuration or confirm what I'm experiencing is normal (hopefully not).

mame-v126.exe -noautoframeskip -frameskip 0 -seconds_to_run 100 -nothrottle -nosleep -video ddraw -skip_gameinfo -effect none -nowaitvsync -noreadconfig -mt

  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  CPU ------------------ Pentium4    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300
  Clockspeed -----------     2.53     2.45     2.45     2.45     2.45
  OS Used --------------     XP32     XP32  Vista64     XP64     XP64
  MAME executable ------    32bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Killer Instinct 2    -   143.2%   312.7%   365.7%   240.6%   276.7%
  Cruisin USA          -    55.4%   131.9%   139.8%    96.6%   108.2%
  Gauntlet Legends     -    30.1%    92.7%   107.6%    72.1%    82.8%
  Blitz 2k             -    27.9%    89.0%   101.9%    64.1%    72.8%
  Gradius 4            -    19.2%    66.1%    75.4%    49.4%    58.7%
  Starblade            -    37.3%    89.3%    83.6%    68.8%    64.2%
  --------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading this entire thread (awesome but long), I figured it may not cost me so much to upgrade.  I recently bought a used system on craigslist for $300 to stretch out performance on some mame games as well as other emulators. 

My disappointment right now isn't so much that the system isn't performing as well as 4ghz and up systems mentioned in this thread but so much that there are apparently some trade off's that I hope I won't have to make (this is where you come in!)

My P4 at 2.53ghz was paired with an old AGP GeForce4 Ti.  You can see the performance above.  It ran nearly all of the "regular" mame games fine as you can guess but anything that required a little muscle, it was barely ok to poor.

The E6300 normally at 1.8ghz has been successfully overclocked to 2.45ghz.  Although I didn't record the results above, it basically runs proportionally faster by the clock speed percentage.  It is paired with an old PCI-E ATI x700 Pro and the system runs PC-6400 corsairs with blinky lights.

Staying on Windows XP 32bit there is a about a 2.5x o 3x speed improvement between the old and new pc.  Then once I go to to Vista x64 and run a 64bit version of mame, I get another 10% from that.  If everything worked great from here, my post may be about tweaking or planning a next CPU / motherboard purchase.

But the problem right now with Vista x64 is that SailorSat's fantastic Soft15Khz isn't working with Vista x64.... argh!!!  :banghead:  I've tried the latest powerstrip and haven't had any success with going below 640x480.  I've read the faq but am welcomed to suggestions.  The last alternative is to buy an ArcadeVGA v2 PCI-E and hope it also works with Vista x64.  Even if it does, other emulators will suffer since I think the x700 pro is a superior card to the ATI 9250 the ArcadeVGA v2 is based on.

With XP x64 everything works but I get the horrible numbers you see above for both 32bit and 64bit compiles of MAME.  Arghhh!!!!    :cry:

My hope is that either SailorSat fixes Vista x64 issues (or tell me how I've got it misconfigured) or one of you brainy forum readers can help me out with my potentially screwed up XP x64 box.  Yes, the latest ATI drivers and patches, etc have been installed.  Anti-Virus off, etc.  But please suggest more things to look at!

I ran these tests with 100 seconds but can do 240 as some of the more recent posts have been but it's the relative percentages to each other that I'm concerned about mostly.  Thanks everyone in advance....  you're my only hope.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 09, 2008, 12:02:26 pm
you could check to see if there is any unwanted start up program running that dont need to be running.

most the chd's dont run right on a pc twice that strength

I run a AMD athlon 64 4000+ with 2 gig ram duel channel kit and a radeon X1950 pro DDR3 512MB and they stil dont work right and there is pc's even stronger then that and they still dont run right either.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 09, 2008, 01:31:36 pm
you could check to see if there is any unwanted start up program running that dont need to be running.

most the chd's dont run right on a pc twice that strength

I run a AMD athlon 64 4000+ with 2 gig ram duel channel kit and a radeon X1950 pro DDR3 512MB and they stil dont work right and there is pc's even stronger then that and they still dont run right either.

Thanks northerngames. 

It turns out after patching or tweaking some BIOS settings, the CPU defaulted back to its 1.86ghz instead of the 2.54ghz overclocked.  Put memory speed and FSB back to the way it was and bam.  I guess at this rate, I won't need Vista x64 since new tests show XP x64 running 64bit mame is the same speed since i turn off just about every feature and service I can on Vista anyway.

Even MALA and xvid seem to play together better now.  Can't wait to customize hyperspin tool.

Okay, back to the paypal thing again.  Does anyone know SailorSat's paypal address?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 09, 2008, 02:51:19 pm
Just curious, Mala is working fine in Vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 09, 2008, 03:11:37 pm
Just curious, Mala is working fine in Vista 64?

Mala works great in Vista 64.  I used 1.04 and 1.05.  The part I'm not sure if it was due to the CPU upgrade or 64bit is that videos seem to run smoother / faster.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 09, 2008, 05:20:32 pm
Quote
Okay, back to the paypal thing again.  Does anyone know SailorSat's paypal address?

There's a link on this page: http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 10, 2008, 12:07:59 am
Done.  Sorry it's not much but thanks for your hard work and contribution to the community!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 10, 2008, 05:32:27 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 10, 2008, 05:44:16 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?

Some cards, and I have one - an Nvidia 6200 - will not do some 15khz resolutions. Actually, I think it will only do the main '640x244' and the rest it automatically doubles the refresh. Something to do with how it, or in combination with the drivers, interacts with Windows. I tried altering the function of the card with Rivatuner and nothing changed.

(The thing works great for Advancemame, though, and will output anything my monitor can handle, which is literally 15-48khz. As Advancemame has it's own drivers that appear to work in lieu of the Windows default registry keys. Essentially, I got tired of having to try to create near-perfect modes, that didn't conflict monitor-wise, that were based on 60hz refresh. So I went back to my old card.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 10, 2008, 07:03:36 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?

Some cards, and I have one - an Nvidia 6200 - will not do some 15khz resolutions. Actually, I think it will only do the main '640x244' and the rest it automatically doubles the refresh. Something to do with how it, or in combination with the drivers, interacts with Windows. I tried altering the function of the card with Rivatuner and nothing changed.

(The thing works great for Advancemame, though, and will output anything my monitor can handle, which is literally 15-48khz. As Advancemame has it's own drivers that appear to work in lieu of the Windows default registry keys. Essentially, I got tired of having to try to create near-perfect modes, that didn't conflict monitor-wise, that were based on 60hz refresh. So I went back to my old card.)

Ok, thanks for the reply, i guess running my monitor at 114hz when its spec is 40-90hz isnt good for it!?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 11, 2008, 01:43:18 pm
Is it possible to add a 352x288 mode at 60hz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paul Olson on August 12, 2008, 12:24:59 pm
Has anyone managed to get this running under Vista 64. I saw an earlier post saying it should work but is not tested, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched to XP 64 and Soft-15KHz works great; everything else is terrible though.

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 12, 2008, 01:23:46 pm
Has anyone managed to get this running under Vista 64. I saw an earlier post saying it should work but is not tested, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched to XP 64 and Soft-15KHz works great; everything else is terrible though.


I couldn't get soft15khz working in vista x64.  I don't think I've read a single post that said it works.  I don't think even SailorSat has tested it in vista x64.

BTW, what do you mean that everything else is terrible?  Some tests I ran showed that 64bit Vista and XP appear to perform about the same.


  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  CPU ------------------ Pentium4    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300
  Clockspeed -----------     2.53     2.45     2.45     1.86     1.86     2.45     2.45
  OS Used --------------     XP32     XP32  Vista64     XP64     XP64     XP64     XP64
  MAME executable ------    32bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Killer Instinct 2    -   143.2%   312.7%   365.7%   240.6%   276.7%    305.4%  358.0%
  Cruisin USA          -    55.4%   131.9%   139.8%    96.6%   108.2%    126.9%  138.5%
  Gauntlet Legends     -    30.1%    92.7%   107.6%    72.1%    82.8%     95.1%  106.5%
  Blitz 2k             -    27.9%    89.0%   101.9%    64.1%    72.8%     
  Gradius 4            -    19.2%    66.1%    75.4%    49.4%    58.7%     64.7%   76.0%
  Starblade            -    37.3%    89.3%    83.6%    68.8%    64.2%     89.8%   83.8%
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 12, 2008, 05:06:45 pm


Ok, thanks for the reply, i guess running my monitor at 114hz when its spec is 40-90hz isnt good for it!?

I can't say. I would think that if the monitor can display it, it should be fine. I heard from bent98 that he was told by someone at Billabs that at least one person had a problem like you said above. If it was only one, who knows? User error is not uncommon, especially with this kind of hardware. If you're getting linearity issues at 15khz then I'd say your monitor isn't working properly, which is a bummer...although you might try Advancemame just to see if it displays via that differently.


Is it possible to add a 352x288 mode at 60hz?

Yes. Google 'modeline calculator'. Enter the above values in their respective places. Put the resulting modeline in a custom15khz.txt file. However, note that the scanrate will not, and CAN NOT, be 15khz. Your monitor may not be capable of this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 12, 2008, 06:38:20 pm
Yes. Google 'modeline calculator'. Enter the above values in their respective places. Put the resulting modeline in a custom15khz.txt file. However, note that the scanrate will not, and CAN NOT, be 15khz. Your monitor may not be capable of this.


Ok i put modeline calculator in google and came up this this page a t the top of the search, http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl, i just entered info in the, Visible Resolution boxes, 352x288 and in the refresh rate box, 60hz, and gave me the followin caculation,

Modeline "384x288@60" 8.75 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303
Horizontal sync frequency: 18.22 kHz

Does that look correct?, would that mean then it would display in 25khz mode, as its saying its above 15khz??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 12:06:22 am
No, it would display in 18kHz mode, as it's too low for 25khz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 13, 2008, 06:30:01 am
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 13, 2008, 07:27:08 am
Sailor

an you tell me if you got a chance to test the usermodes functionality?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 11:42:30 am
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz

There are two kinds of "multisync" monitors. Those that can do 15, 25 and 31kHz. And those that can do 15 TO 31kHz.
The first won't work, but the later will.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 11:44:49 am
an you tell me if you got a chance to test the usermodes functionality?

haven't tried yet, quite busy at work atm, but I found several small "bugs" in the ATI and NVidia implementation.
I'm finished for this week so I'll be ready with a new release same time tomorow :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 13, 2008, 04:41:42 pm
Thats great news.

Thanks for all your hard work and devotion to the project.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: scotthh on August 14, 2008, 11:05:46 am
I recently started using Soft-15, (ATI AIW 9000 Catalyst 8.22?).

With a jamma board, the image covers the entire screen.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=106610;image)

With the PC, I need to shrink the height of the image:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=83106.0;attach=106605;image)

Otherwise the window becomes folded over itself:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=83106.0;attach=106606;image)

Because the jamma board displays properly, I don't think the monitor needs repair. According to this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68115.msg693064#msg693064) someone else had this problem due to the resolution in an arcade VGA card.  I'm thinking I might be able to change the display settings in the software to fix this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 14, 2008, 11:53:09 am
it appears the screen res is set to large for the game and needs to be set a little smaller.

or your H and V size needs to be adjusted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 04:07:43 pm
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/soft15khz.zip


B43 is out. Guys its time to test thoe multiple refresh usermodes
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 04:43:23 pm
Well Salior it works! You can also select different refreshes in Mame UI for same resolution!!!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 14, 2008, 05:13:28 pm
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz


Seriously, if you want to explore this stuff, you need to read the wiki, and especially read easymamecab - a few times over.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 08:29:12 pm
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 11:14:23 am
just wondering...

I have a Xentor Maxi Gamer card lying around, and I found this scheme near the end of the page...

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?sitesize=yes&i=960

does this mean that 15KHz won't work on that one? as it only lists 31KHz or more modes?

Edit: just had a look at my cab and surprisingly it's not a 25 but 28" Hantarex Solo monitor :) didn't see a label with frequencies tho.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 15, 2008, 11:39:07 am
It's a TNT2 so it will work if you use an pretty old forceware.

It doesn't list any 15kHz modes as normal VGA monitor can't sync to them.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 11:46:46 am
you mean driver with forceware?

it's hopeful anyway, thanks for the good news! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 15, 2008, 11:58:32 am
Yip.

Excatly this one -> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_66.93.html <-
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 12:17:31 pm
Thanks, I'll try it out when my Jamma2PC board has arrived
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 16, 2008, 08:07:40 pm
I had a TNT2 that worked fine with soft15. Just as described at easymamcab (hardware section), it's a good, flexible card. Severaly underpowered for GPU stuff, though great for older/low budget mame computers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 18, 2008, 06:21:02 am
ok, got my host installed with XP and apparently it's by default using a RIVA TNT/TNT2 driver that comes with Windows,
should I leave it like that or should I install the one that Sailor pointed me at?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2008, 11:29:49 am
You actually must use it, as the default microsoft supplied drivers don`t work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 19, 2008, 06:48:50 am
Hello,

Sorry if this has been asked several times but the thread is so long i must missed it or it isn't in.

Well i have a 6800LE i wanna try for this (allready have a arcadevga).
So if i use soft 15 on my machine does this mean i can use all resolutions provided by bent98 by renaming it to usermodes?

I have this monitor:
NEC MULTISYNC 4PG 29" Horizontal 15-50khz Vertical 40-120hz

What do i have to set in the mame.ini? Same settings as i had on arcadevga?
Do i need individual ini files for each game? (if not what settings needed for mame.ini)

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 19, 2008, 05:36:23 pm
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.



So whats actually been fixed in this latest release then, i thought user modes worked fine?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 20, 2008, 06:13:00 pm
Hello,

Sorry if this has been asked several times but the thread is so long i must missed it or it isn't in.

Well i have a 6800LE i wanna try for this (allready have a arcadevga).
So if i use soft 15 on my machine does this mean i can use all resolutions provided by bent98 by renaming it to usermodes?

I have this monitor:
NEC MULTISYNC 4PG 29" Horizontal 15-50khz Vertical 40-120hz

What do i have to set in the mame.ini? Same settings as i had on arcadevga?
Do i need individual ini files for each game? (if not what settings needed for mame.ini)

Thanks

Experience, my boy. Install the card, load the resolutions, and play around with it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 21, 2008, 03:01:48 am
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 09:46:04 am
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry



Thats going to open up a can of worms.  :timebomb:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 10:22:54 am
Any ETA on when CABmame 127 will be out Sailor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 11:26:27 am
CabMAME 0127? Yeah well let me grab some food, take a shower, and well yeah, guess it will be ready then :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 21, 2008, 12:57:26 pm
Could you complie one with core2duo & 64bit support?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 01:53:29 pm
ok, 0.127 32bit (console and ui) is ready and being uploaded right now...
64bit will follow some time later (right now the 64bit dev rig is being WoW´ed xD)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 02:41:48 pm
Sailor I got an error when I apply the frogger.diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 03:16:24 pm
Well you'll need cleanstretch for it to work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:31:51 pm
I will test
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:44:11 pm
I tried patching cleanstrech first then frogger.diff and same error. Are there any other .diffs that are needed for frogger.diff?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:49:11 pm
I tried patching all other .diffs to test and frogger still errorred out.

I am ofcourse using a fresh mame 127 source when I do my testing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 04:52:13 pm
Try patching em in the right order (see the install-cabmame.bat)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 05:59:19 pm
Ok Salior it worked, however I didnt want to apply those other .diffs to mame. Is there a minimum components I can install to get the frogger fix or I have to install all of the .diffs for it to work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 03:51:49 am
Hm... I think you'll need changeres AND cleanstretch, as all of these change the same functions in MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 22, 2008, 10:46:20 am
SS, can you explain abit more about, Redraw hack, does it just double the refresh of all games, so 60hz games would run at 120hz?? If so what is the point of this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 11:21:06 am
*sigh* 1st, there are SOME games (don`t remember the name) that run on 30Hz, that need to be output doubled, and of course, for a 31kHz monitor, if you want to run 15khz modes, you need to double the output rate, so you output 120hz, but then all games run twice as fast. Thats why redraw can output each frame multiple times.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 22, 2008, 11:35:50 am
Yeah thats what i though. You might want to add a disclaimer with that diff hack then SS, as i have looked over the spec of 3 different monitor manafactures (Pentranic, MakVision, Betson) and none of them support over 90hz on the vertical frequency, they may display a mode at 120hz but it will just burn the monitor out over prolonged use. Just dont want people buggering there monitors  :angel:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 22, 2008, 12:01:18 pm
Hm... I think you'll need changeres AND cleanstretch, as all of these change the same functions in MAME.

That did the trick
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 02:33:02 pm
Just dont want people buggering there monitors  :angel:

Sure... But you actualy must activate redraw to use it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 22, 2008, 07:24:39 pm
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry



Thats going to open up a can of worms.  :timebomb:

Hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh. Jeffry, your description doesn't tell us what they look like, or if indeed you know what they're supposed to look like.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 22, 2008, 07:36:35 pm
Quote from: Ummon link=topic=66402.msg874342#msg874342

Hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh. Jeffry, your description doesn't tell us what they look like, or if indeed you know what they're supposed to look like.

Agreed. Well they look ugly and when it looks ugly it looks like me ;)

So what i did what remove the custom list. After that i used the benson or whatever his name is tool from ultimarc to create the ini's and it stilll looked ugly.

I found out that mame.ini was still using d3d instead of ddraw
Setting ddraw everyting looked more realistic.

Right now i am using sailors formulas to get some better screens for pac man and dkong as tons of games run on these 2 resolutions. Since i am on nvidia i can only use a few extra resolutions instead of bents mega list.

I might have a few more questions while i am tweaking but for now i can manage.

so sorry for not being clear i guess.

Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 06:30:30 am
Ever wondered about the difference between RGB (maybe Component too) and a normal TV-Out (Composite)?

Well... Take a close look :)

(http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png)

P.S. Yeah I know, pretty bad ass example ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 23, 2008, 07:56:07 am
What order do u have to apply the diif files in, if u want to complie yourself for cabmame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 08:32:24 am
alright, my JammASD card arrived yesterday.

finished the host with the Xentor driver Sailor recommened and 15KHz installed.

but for some reason I get some flashy result, it looks like a duplicate or interlaced part appears 8+ pixels lower than the first picture.

I can't correct it with the 6 or 7 pots connected to the monitor.

The machine boots with 800x600, can't seem to select a lower one but I doubts that's the issue,
when I set the dip switch to 15/31 I can see the DOS screen buts it's like 4 or 6 times there instead of twice?

Feel free to move it to another thread if it doesn't belong here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 08:43:22 am
What order do u have to apply the diif files in, if u want to complie yourself for cabmame?

See the install-cabmame.bat file
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 08:44:18 am
The machine boots with 800x600, can't seem to select a lower one but I doubts that's the issue,
when I set the dip switch to 15/31 I can see the DOS screen buts it's like 4 or 6 times there instead of twice?

Feel free to move it to another thread if it doesn't belong here.

Hm... Try using Quickres to turn down the resolution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 11:01:17 am
it seems to be some kind of problem with resolution splitting for the tube (600 or 480 convertion to 256?) and pot settings.

I can get it quite steady on 600x400 or 640x480 but then the text is unreadable as you only see odd or even lines
it reads fine when you let the screen scroll a bit.

when forced to 321x256 it's as steady as a rock :)

I guess this is a common resolution for most classic & neo-geo games?


Notice that I lose some pixels at the top tho, it's not stretched outside the screen but the monitor's settings tho, checked that already.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 11:20:04 am
You should use 321x240 as your "centering" resolution, as it covers all other 240 line modes, as well as the 480 line modes.

As for the interlaced resolutions... Well yeah it differs from screen to screen, but most arcade games run in 240 lines progressive, so it doesn`t matter at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 03:05:16 pm
ok, thanks for the tip but when using (an old) mame32 (the one with the build in menu) I seem to lose parts of the screen at the bottom.

using one of the other modes brings it back, maybe it's mame32 that not keeping my original resolution altho I disabled mode and aspect ratio switching.

male start in some 16 color mode it seems but way higher resolution than my 320x240 and the text is unreadable small
games run in wrong modes aswell (1942 turns out purple & green instead of gray)

I guess I need to mess around with it some more but it's kinda hard at 320x240 as most setup forms are bigger than that screen size  :-\
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 23, 2008, 05:12:42 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 05:39:07 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?

Hehe, well I'm working as an electrician at a local company.
But that sounds way more "special" as it is... Just swaping defective lights or replacing power cords on various equipment.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 24, 2008, 12:08:49 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?

Hehe, well I'm working as an electrician at a local company.
But that sounds way more "special" as it is... Just swaping defective lights or replacing power cords on various equipment.

I doubt those are your only responsibilities!  Maybe you write all the system drivers for SAP!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 24, 2008, 07:48:44 pm
Ever wondered about the difference between RGB (maybe Component too) and a normal TV-Out (Composite)?

Well... Take a close look :)

(http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png)

P.S. Yeah I know, pretty bad ass example ;)

What was your set-up that produced these and how did you get screenshots?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 26, 2008, 09:58:37 pm
got it up and running, looks great except for some flickering, I cant seem to make any adjustmenrs to get rid of it. Also, the text looks kinda awful under windows unless I pick some tiny resolution, which Id be fine with if it werent for MAME32.

Speakin of, most games look fine (except for the blurred text thingie mentioned above) except MKII, it kinda looks crappy on the select screen and again the picture flickers a little.  IS this because I tied the  H and V syncs together? would I be better off pinning the V sync separate?

Im still super impressed!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 01:28:45 am
Depends on your monitor and graphics card combination.
Some monitors flicker more than others and various cards output interlace different than others. (Especially many really old cards used to flicker)

Sadly there's no adjustment for the interlace flicker, and it won't help to seperate the sync lines either.

Please note that the "highres" modes (i.e. everything with more than 400 lines) do work fine with emulation, videos etc., but are not suitable to work with text for a longer time.

I'd use a good frontend or a larger font in MAME32.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 27, 2008, 03:58:10 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).
When i load up soft 15khz it doesnt support the card?
I have tried about a dozen other applications to try to get the pc to output to 15khz with no success.
I think I need a new graphics card and was wondering what is the best option for me?
I will be running mame through windows (XP), I won't be running through dos.
I won't be using the pc for anything else.
I need the cheapest option available.
Thanks,
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on August 27, 2008, 04:16:36 am
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.

Wow and thanks.
Will soft-15KHz really "Eat" all these custom resolutions also with nvidia cards? I remember that there was a limit.

Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 07:35:33 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).

Hm... Depends on the Onboard Intel, but the Rage2 isn`t support for sure.
I think you should look for a ATI Radeon 9200 or something like that.



Will soft-15KHz really "Eat" all these custom resolutions also with nvidia cards? I remember that there was a limit.

Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
Hm... NVidia cards (still) have a 32 mode limit.

As for live testing... Well I though about forcing windows to "reload" the drivers, but I don`t know for sure how to do that yet.
Various "Tweaking Tools" have such a feature (RiveTuner for example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on August 27, 2008, 10:18:23 am
Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
As for live testing... Well I though about forcing windows to "reload" the drivers, but I don`t know for sure how to do that yet.
Various "Tweaking Tools" have such a feature (RiveTuner for example).
But with RivaTuner I can't save the changes on the custom.txt, right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 10:39:19 am
Thats not the point, I want to change the registry, then reset the driver so it can show the "new" modes from the registry instantly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 01:50:36 pm
To a complete different topic

What do all nvidia forceware drivers (okay I tested only 4 from 78.01 to 163.xx) in common?

They clear a 2944 byte area just before reading "CUST_MODE" from the registry.
Just need to try what happens if I change the buffer size!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 27, 2008, 03:28:45 pm
so should I uninstall soft then update my drivers? I think Im using an older version of the nvidia drivers.

And how do I add custom  resolutions/refreshes? the point of using the arcadde monitor was for arcade resolutions (like for Mortal Kombat and stuff)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 04:35:55 pm
When you install soft15khz you'll get plenty of custom resolutions. For anything else, take a look in the FAQ section linked in my sig.

As for the buffer... Well, It doesn't work the way I want. Still only works with up to 32 resolutions on nvidia :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 27, 2008, 05:49:24 pm
Still only works with up to 32 resolutions on nvidia :(

Can't this be hacked?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 27, 2008, 08:46:33 pm
Salior

any progress with getting soft 15 to work with vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 28, 2008, 12:06:44 am
Can't this be hacked?
Sure. But I don't have the required skills. Took quite some time to find that stupid buffer.



any progress with getting soft 15 to work with vista 64?
Nope. Didn't even try to yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 29, 2008, 04:38:38 am
After days of trying to find a shop that still sells normal PCI and AGP cards (not PCI-E)
I found somewhere that stocks the follwing cards..

Sapphire Radeon 7000 pci 64mb
Sapphire Radeon 9250 pci 128 mb

Peak Grahics Radeon 7000 tv 64mb AGP
Asus Graphics Geforce 6200 128mb AGP

I am not sire which one to buy to suit outputting to a pal TV using either a vga to scart cable or S-video.

Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 29, 2008, 05:45:38 am
I'd recommend the 9250 PCI
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 29, 2008, 06:57:49 am
Thanks I will buy that one.
Could you give me a second recommendation in case that one is not in stock.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 30, 2008, 06:41:57 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 31, 2008, 06:38:31 am
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 01, 2008, 11:25:42 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 01, 2008, 11:55:09 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?

Yes in the same directory. Run soft15khz.exe and hit the uninstall button.
hit the 15khz button and your new lines are added after reboot.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jimbo on September 01, 2008, 05:49:22 pm
Anyone tried this tool with a Radeon 4850 PCIe card?

Cheers  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 01, 2008, 06:28:31 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

??-?-?? If you're going new, either a) try to find a PCIe card that works with soft15, or b) don't use this program/don't do native. PCI is such a lame bus speed - even PIIs often have AGP. Maybe you're confusing PCI with PCIe?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 02, 2008, 02:49:11 am
Maybe you're confusing PCI with PCIe?

No i am not , you do not need alot of bus speed for mame games. It's not graphical intensive. You need cpu and memory but i probabby do not have to tell you this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 02, 2008, 06:16:33 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?

Yes in the same directory. Run soft15khz.exe and hit the uninstall button.
hit the 15khz button and your new lines are added after reboot.


Ok, thanks.
If in the "custom15khz.txt" I add a mode that's already in the built in resolutions, how it works?
How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2008, 06:18:11 am
If in the "custom15khz.txt" I add a mode that's already in the built in resolutions, how it works?
It will override the old one.

How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
The same way, just use "usermodes.txt" instead of "custom15khz.txt".

(And install "USER" modes in Soft-15kHz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 02, 2008, 06:41:27 am
How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
The same way, just use "usermodes.txt" instead of "custom15khz.txt".

(And install "USER" modes in Soft-15kHz)
Thank you for your explanations.

If I hit "install USER modes" will it add modes to the builted in or will it only use modes in the "usermodes.txt"?

If I use an ArcadeVGA, can I add resoltutions with this method?

After that procedure, I can choose the different refresh rates from mame, but not from avres tool right?

How a "standard" emulator chooses between 2 same resolutions with different refresh rates?

Thanks for your patience.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2008, 07:52:19 am
If I hit "install USER modes" will it add modes to the builted in or will it only use modes in the "usermodes.txt"?
Nope, there are no built-in usermodes.
However if you hit Install 15kHz and then hit Install Usermodes, it will install both.

If I use an ArcadeVGA, can I add resoltutions with this method?
No.

After that procedure, I can choose the different refresh rates from mame, but not from avres tool right?
Well yeah, as the AVRES tool does not take refresh rates into account.

How a "standard" emulator chooses between 2 same resolutions with different refresh rates?
Most (if not all) emulators use 60Hz modes. Some (like WinUAE) let you select the refresh rate as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 03, 2008, 08:36:35 am
So I have some news on NVidia @ Vista.

It seems NVidia changed the driver structure completely, but I've allready figured out most of it, though it seems NVidia is still limited to 32 custom modes.

Right now I need to install a Vista System to try some stuff.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 03, 2008, 08:57:26 am

 though it seems NVidia is still limited to 32 custom modes.


CRAP!

But great you are on track for the vista drivers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 03, 2008, 10:49:58 am
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

yeah but to get a $18.00 low end card and put it in a duel or quad core would be pretty silly and defeat the whole purpose of having a high end pc of today that is graphic limited up to the late 90's  :dunno

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 03, 2008, 10:56:17 am
The flip side of the coin is that most "high end" cards (HD2400 and never ATI, and GeForce 8 series and later) don't work that good with low resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 03, 2008, 04:16:36 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

yeah but to get a $18.00 low end card and put it in a duel or quad core would be pretty silly and defeat the whole purpose of having a high end pc of today that is graphic limited up to the late 90's  :dunno



Yeah, what he said!


The flip side of the coin is that most "high end" cards (HD2400 and never ATI, and GeForce 8 series and later) don't work that good with low resolutions.

Never ATI, huh?  Heheh. Depends on how new, vs high-end. PCIe is not a brand new interface, and there's no reason not to get a card that is PCIe, as many work just fine with soft15.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 03, 2008, 09:03:11 pm
Sailor, Have you tested the Nvidia 260x/280x or ATI 4870's yet?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 04, 2008, 03:52:30 am
Nope. I simply don't have the money to get new cards every month :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 04, 2008, 10:44:00 am
LOL


I wasn't expecting your to buy those cards. I was just wondering if you knew anyone who tested it with them.

I hope the ATI 4870x2 works. That card should be future proof for a while .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 04, 2008, 12:41:23 pm
This is more of a cabmame questions but check this out.



I found this in the whatsnew.txt included with latest Mame 127u2:

Changed refreshspeed target to 0.25Hz below rate provided, in order to
guarantee that inexact timings do not lead to sound stuttering.
[Aaron Giles]

Wondering if this fixes issue with sound stuttering with tripple buffering enabled??

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 05, 2008, 07:21:47 pm
You didn't try it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 06, 2008, 07:42:53 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).
When i load up soft 15khz it doesnt support the card?
I have tried about a dozen other applications to try to get the pc to output to 15khz with no success.
I think I need a new graphics card and was wondering what is the best option for me?
I will be running mame through windows (XP), I won't be running through dos.
I won't be using the pc for anything else.
I need the cheapest option available.
Thanks,






Finally got the card, went for the radeon saphhire 9250 128mb.
I used the svideo out and it worked on the tv once I plugged it in so I didnt need the vga to scart cable I bought.
The list og games looks terrible in mamui32 and the actual games are not as clear as the pc monitor I was using but I am happy enough as it looks more like I remember it in the arcade. Is there anything I can do to improve the way the games list works in Mameui32? ad anything to improve the games, they look a little bit blurry and there is some shadowing around any text and some of the sprites.
I was trying a command line mame with mamewah but just couldnt get the config right.
Thanks all for the advice on the card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 06, 2008, 08:21:02 am
If you are using S-Video then there is no way to improve the image as you are basically stuck with the 640x480 image the tvout is providing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 11, 2008, 05:19:45 am
Thanks for the reply.
I still have the VGA to Scart cable I bought, is there anything I can do with this maybe using soft 15khz?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 11, 2008, 11:30:25 am
Well yeah thats the whole point of Soft-15kHz :)
Install it, plug in your VGA-to-SCART (I really doubtfull on this one, as I don't believe there are any VGA-to-SCART cables in any shop, because most of them are SCART-to-VGA, which is a different pinout) into your VGA card, and the SCART plug into your TV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 11, 2008, 07:22:01 pm
Wouldn't it be VGA to SCART, as that is the direction of signal?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 04:23:32 am
Most of those cables I saw in shops are to connect DVD Players (which with SCART) to a beamer (with VGA).

Those cables don't work without rewireing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 12, 2008, 06:33:46 am
This is the one I bought?
I assume its ok to send a link to it?
Will I need to rewire and if so is there a guide somewhere?
Thanks for all the help.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 07:12:29 am
Try it, but I fear the cable will have the wrong pinout.

If you need a Pinout check http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9365 .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 12, 2008, 08:00:37 am
Hey Salior

A while back you said you may work on a tool similiar to AVRes that will create modelines based off games and monitor specs. Are you or do you have any plans to do that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 08:16:38 am
That didn't work out too well. Haven't looked at it for quite a while.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 12, 2008, 09:12:52 am
ok, so I love your program , it is the cat's meow.  The ONLY games I have graphical faults with is the midway games. MKII looks the worst, Im lookin for my camera so I can post a pic. 

ok so I cant seem to take a good picture, but I think it has something to do with MK refreshing at 53 instead of 60. it looks like Lui Kang has 2 sets of eyes.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108370;image)

its more obvious in person then in the picture.
What res should I try to run MK at? I was using 401x256 (?)



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 09:17:34 am
Actually 401x256 is output at 53Hz.

Are you using default MAME or cabMAME? Direct3D or DirectDraw? Questions over Questions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 12, 2008, 09:53:06 am
mame32 (stop laughing) happens with D3D and Direct Draw.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 10:31:48 am
Hm... Can't tell from a distance sorry. I'm pretty clueless right now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on September 13, 2008, 07:12:08 am
Has there been any results posted using a ATI 3400 series card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 13, 2008, 05:26:38 pm
mame32 (stop laughing) happens with D3D and Direct Draw.

 MK and MKII run at 15khz - it's just that their refresh is not standard. That doesn't look like 15khz to me. You HAVE to set it to DDraw to function properly, with hardware stretch off, effects off. You may want to post your ini.


This is the one I bought?
I assume its ok to send a link to it?
Will I need to rewire and if so is there a guide somewhere?
Thanks for all the help.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Post in the SCART thread below this one. They'll be able to better help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 13, 2008, 08:30:31 pm
i messed around ALOT with various settings (with some help from northerngames)

I think I found a resolution I like BETTER then 401x256
the mame cab is off now, but its the one right below it 392x240(?)


this is 401x256:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108572;image)
notice the bar thingie at the bottom of the screen?

heres MKII running on the other one (392x240 I think):
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108574;image)

I know a little of the top is cut off better then that thign at the bottom; Im still tweaking it. both resolutions looks leaps and bounds better then the VGA that was in Mortal Kabinet.

Thoughts, ideas?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 15, 2008, 07:00:11 pm
Hmmm. I haven't had this issue with that game. The latter resolution makes sense, as you're getting less lines drawn, but the the top image is some kind of distortion. What monitor is this on?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 15, 2008, 10:26:29 pm
Hmmm. I haven't had this issue with that game. The latter resolution makes sense, as you're getting less lines drawn, but the the top image is some kind of distortion. What monitor is this on?

27K7391
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 17, 2008, 08:17:07 pm
I'm not that familiar with WGs. Some more info on it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 17, 2008, 11:32:32 pm
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 18, 2008, 08:56:09 am
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)


thats perfect, I manually went in and changed all the 399x243 resolutions to 400x254 and they all look gorgeous without the crazy bar thing. I cant take a picture because of the glare right now but expect one tonight.  Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on September 18, 2008, 08:42:38 pm
Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)


Maybe not it's own section ... but maybe to separate video/monitor issues between physical problems with monitors vs look & feel/drivers, etc?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 19, 2008, 10:02:27 am
Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)


Maybe not it's own section ... but maybe to separate video/monitor issues between physical problems with monitors vs look & feel/drivers, etc?

I started a thread in the website feedback section =)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 19, 2008, 08:11:57 pm
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)


thats perfect, I manually went in and changed all the 399x243 resolutions to 400x254 and they all look gorgeous without the crazy bar thing. I cant take a picture because of the glare right now but expect one tonight.  Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)

Hmmm. So you had to create that mode. Mine works fine with 401x256, though I'll keep that one in mind. As long as it works.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 19, 2008, 10:12:36 pm
it should work better then yours as it is the correct and original size for the originals machines.

to get the best display set them for what they were made for originally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 21, 2008, 04:57:40 pm
it should work better then yours as it is the correct and original size for the originals machines.

to get the best display set them for what they were made for originally.

This to me or him? Incidentally, I use Advancemame so it gets done for me, but if I use soft15 in the future, I'll keep this one in mind if necessary.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 21, 2008, 10:29:08 pm
Both actually.

 I use mamefx with mamewah and don't know anything about advancemame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 22, 2008, 01:01:26 pm
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 22, 2008, 01:42:04 pm
Maybe, maybe not.
Last time I've tinkered with Vista I got pretty pissed :)
So don't expect anything in the near future.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on September 22, 2008, 06:54:14 pm
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on September 23, 2008, 11:59:37 pm
G'day.  What a great time to be into the Mamecab scene.  First and foremost I must say, fantastic work Sailor for bringing true arcade quality output to the masses!

Couple of questions for the thread :

- Does anybody have a 1:1 pixel and refresh mode for Rtype? - and how did you derive it?

- Are there any pro's and cons in generating modes with LRMC?  I have played with it to some degree using the following commandline (lrmc x y refresh -cga -l)  where -cga enables 15khz and -l enables low pixel clock generation so as not to double the rez. 

Is LRMC the defacto standard, or at least a more than suitable generator?  The resason I say this I have attempted generating some modes already present as default in soft15khz and the results are not the same.

- How is this mode derived 401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
?  I cannot get anything anywhere near 53hz for that resolution using calculation. 

- I'm also getting crap geometry onscreen, a lens type effect where the further you get from the center of the screen, the wider things get...it's like projecting a picture onto a chinese wok.  Are there any fundamental differences between a true arcade board and a 15khz Vga output?  Can this geometry issue be overcome by tweaked modelines? - or is it simply a chassis/tube issue and replacement is the only solution.

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 24, 2008, 08:05:54 am
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.





Some of my mobo drivers have issues with XP 64.

Sailor

 :notworthy: please say you will look into it further.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 24, 2008, 11:31:20 am
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.





Some of my mobo drivers have issues with XP 64.

Sailor

 :notworthy: please say you will look into it further.

check to see if there is any updated drivers for it or your bios if possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 25, 2008, 08:05:56 pm
G'day.  What a great time to be into the Mamecab scene.  First and foremost I must say, fantastic work Sailor for bringing true arcade quality output to the masses!

Couple of questions for the thread :

- Does anybody have a 1:1 pixel and refresh mode for Rtype? - and how did you derive it?

- Are there any pro's and cons in generating modes with LRMC?  I have played with it to some degree using the following commandline (lrmc x y refresh -cga -l)  where -cga enables 15khz and -l enables low pixel clock generation so as not to double the rez. 

Is LRMC the defacto standard, or at least a more than suitable generator?  The resason I say this I have attempted generating some modes already present as default in soft15khz and the results are not the same.

- How is this mode derived 401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
?  I cannot get anything anywhere near 53hz for that resolution using calculation. 

- I'm also getting crap geometry onscreen, a lens type effect where the further you get from the center of the screen, the wider things get...it's like projecting a picture onto a chinese wok.  Are there any fundamental differences between a true arcade board and a 15khz Vga output?  Can this geometry issue be overcome by tweaked modelines? - or is it simply a chassis/tube issue and replacement is the only solution.

Thanks for the input.

For R-Type I think I've just used 384x288. Or you can calculate your own that is more specifically 384x256.

Yes, there are at least two different calculation formats or whatever. The answer I got from SS was that it was arbitrary which one you wanted to use.

For MK, unless you're really curious about it's workings, just use whichever one - stock or your own - that works best on your set-up.

Weird geometry: if you're getting that on all games, especially common standard res ones like 256x224 then I'd guess it's a monitor issue.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 26, 2008, 05:16:14 am
I am having some issues on 1024x768.

When i install soft15khz and do all modes my 1024x768 is on screen vertical double the size as normal.
My monitor can handle this with no 15khz but with it installed it is stretched vertically???

What can i do to change this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on September 26, 2008, 09:53:04 am
For R-Type I think I've just used 384x288. Or you can calculate your own that is more specifically 384x256.

Yes, there are at least two different calculation formats or whatever. The answer I got from SS was that it was arbitrary which one you wanted to use.

For MK, unless you're really curious about it's workings, just use whichever one - stock or your own - that works best on your set-up.

Weird geometry: if you're getting that on all games, especially common standard res ones like 256x224 then I'd guess it's a monitor issue.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 27, 2008, 07:34:04 pm

Thanks for the heads up.

Sho.



I am having some issues on 1024x768.

When i install soft15khz and do all modes my 1024x768 is on screen vertical double the size as normal.
My monitor can handle this with no 15khz but with it installed it is stretched vertically???

What can i do to change this?

You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2008, 09:18:34 am
:notworthy: please say you will look into it further.

Must be a weak day ;)
Actually I just "cracked" the new nvidia-vista data format, however I need to rewrite some parts of the program for vista so stay tuned.
Also, Matrox on Windows98 should be possible soon (however I doubt anyone will use it).

*EDIT*
Nevermind, doesn't work yet :(

*EDIT2*
(http://images.arianchen.de/nvidia_vista.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/nvidia_vista.png)
At least the ForceWare shows the timing details, however they still output in 31kHz :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 28, 2008, 12:35:00 pm
Thats great news Sailor. Heep trying.
What about ATI drivers in Vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2008, 12:44:33 pm
Well actually I got a simple problem with ATI as I don't have any ATI Card that fits my Vista rig AND is supported by the Vista Catalyst :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 28, 2008, 09:08:52 pm
doh!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 03:14:51 am
You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.

Did that long time ago. Otherwise i would not asked the question in the first place if the awnser was there.

The line below from sailor says:
Quote
It does this by doing small changes to the windows registry to add typical arcade screen resolutions, as well as tweaking some existing ones, and locking out all others

Locking out others how do i get these back?

I know i can add something to custom text (not the 15khz or others as they default to 60Hz) but if i add my own mode line it is still Stretched.

Let me be more clear on what i mean by stretched.
With no 15khz tool my 1024x768 picture looks like this:

__________________
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|_________________|

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

__________________
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|                                  |
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|_________________|

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 06:16:24 am
Locking out others how do i get these back?

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

ATI or NVidia?
Normaly I'd say just enter "Modeline '1024x768@60' 64.56 1024 1056 1296 1328 768 783 791 807 -hsync -vsync" in Custom31kHz.txt

Please note that this is a 48kHz Mode so be sure your monitor does support it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 06:34:31 am
Locking out others how do i get these back?

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

ATI or NVidia?
Normaly I'd say just enter "Modeline '1024x768@60' 64.56 1024 1056 1296 1328 768 783 791 807 -hsync -vsync" in Custom31kHz.txt

Please note that this is a 48kHz Mode so be sure your monitor does support it.

I have ati it is an x1950 pro (i really reccomend one). My monitor supports 15-50kHz
I will try this modeline tonight.
Thx p.s. donation made ;)

Regards,
Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 09:43:40 am
My monitor supports 15-50kHz
Wow! Nice one :)

Thx p.s. donation made ;)
Thanks!

What about ATI drivers in Vista 64?
I just noticed, my Radeon 9600 actually IS supported :)

(Pile of VGA cards = HELL :D)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 29, 2008, 10:09:03 am
You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.

Did that long time ago. Otherwise i would not asked the question in the first place if the awnser was there.

The line below from sailor says:
Quote
It does this by doing small changes to the windows registry to add typical arcade screen resolutions, as well as tweaking some existing ones, and locking out all others

Locking out others how do i get these back?

I know i can add something to custom text (not the 15khz or others as they default to 60Hz) but if i add my own mode line it is still Stretched.

Let me be more clear on what i mean by stretched.
With no 15khz tool my 1024x768 picture looks like this:

__________________
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|                                  |
|                                  |
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|                                  |
|_________________|

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

__________________
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
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|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|_________________|



are you running it at that res for a game or your desktop?

even with the arcadevga the 1024X768 must pan up/down on the desktop or windows and is stretched also.

I also run a X1950 pro but just wondering what your trying to do running 1024X768 in 15K mode is all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 10:20:06 am
He's not trying to use it in 15kHz.
He wants to output it as 48khz as it should be, as his monitor supports both.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 10:28:25 am
He's not trying to use it in 15kHz.
He wants to output it as 48khz as it should be, as his monitor supports both.

exactly ;) 8)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 11:04:01 am
Ok... Consider VISTA a No-Go for now.
The BIG drivers (Catalyst and ForceWare) seem to have the same problems, but I'll go into details later.
As for now, I don't see any workaround.
If anyone has a GOOD idea, then well, speak on :)



Facts:

- NVidia Vista support will be added in the next release. (31kHz and higher)
- ATI support actually works fine as it is for 31kHz and higher.
- Matrox will be looked into at a later point.



Problems:

1. They don't add the resolution as I want them to.
If I add "640x480i" as "640x480@60Hz", Windows will show up 60Hz (VGA default) and 30Hz Interlace (or 12Hz on NVidia for some unknown reason)
The first (60Hz) will output 60Hz Progressive (31kHz - VGA), the second (30Hz) will output 60Hz Interlaced (15kHz - CGA).
( There has to be said the same happens with the current PowerStrip which itself claims to have Vista 64 support, so I think its not a bug on my side )


2. All of them seem to drop "non-power of 8"-modes, as I can't add 321 pixel modes (or 641 ones).


3. For some reason, these 30Hz (and lower) modes don't show up in DirectX.
You can only select them via the Display Properties.
MAME and other emulators won't see them (and therefore won't use them), even if you force these resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 29, 2008, 08:50:57 pm
Twin-X, notice it says in the stock set 31khz modes are interlace. As well, very early on SS posted that XGA mode. So you missed both these.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 30, 2008, 08:53:08 am
I am wondering does Powerstrip work with Vista? Also did those AVGA vista drivers ever come out?

Trying to understand if this is a limitation or just need to find a solution for this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 09:06:03 am
Hm, afaik there are AVGA drivers for Vista 32bit.

As for Powerstrip, yeah it works, but has the same limitations.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 30, 2008, 10:58:28 am
I just want to clarify something. This limitation so far is for both Vista 32 and 64 or just 64 bit version.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on September 30, 2008, 11:31:06 am
what would you choose SailorSat ?

i have 2 cards laying around

ati HD 2600 XT 512mb pcie passive
nvidia geforce 8600 Gt 512Mb pcie passive

will be using it through vga - > scart RGB kabel i made with your tutorial on a sony 25 inch trinitron flatscreen

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 01:32:58 pm
Well yeah thats the whole point of Soft-15kHz :)
Install it, plug in your VGA-to-SCART (I really doubtfull on this one, as I don't believe there are any VGA-to-SCART cables in any shop, because most of them are SCART-to-VGA, which is a different pinout) into your VGA card, and the SCART plug into your TV.



Hi sailorsat,
I wnet home today and decided to try the vga to scart cable I have with soft 15khz.
I think I jumped into it without knowing what I was doing.
It shows up 2 graphics cards primary and secondary (even though I only have one)
Wasnt sure what I had to install 15khz, 25khz etc. so tried different ones and rebooted.
Don't know what I did on my last attempt but now my s-video connection won't work.
The screen is jumping all over the place, I can't see the pc screen now to uninstall, is there a shortcut key to get back to my original resolution?
Have you any tips to get the soft 15khz working with my Radeon 9250 pci card?
I was quite happy with my setup but the bluriness just got to me.
Thanks.
Sham
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 01:53:05 pm
what would you choose SailorSat ?
The ATI one, as the GeForce-8 doesn't work too well.


It shows up 2 graphics cards primary and secondary (even though I only have one)
Thats because you have two "heads", meaning you can drive two monitors/tvs at the same time.

Wasnt sure what I had to install 15khz, 25khz etc. so tried different ones and rebooted.
Don't know what I did on my last attempt but now my s-video connection won't work.
The screen is jumping all over the place, I can't see the pc screen now to uninstall, is there a shortcut key to get back to my original resolution?
Have you any tips to get the soft 15khz working with my Radeon 9250 pci card?

First of all, at bootup (before the windows logo) hammer F8 and select "Start with VGA mode", then you can uninstall Soft-15kHz.

Then, install Soft-15kHz with the "15kHz" option and reboot.
After that, you won't see anything on your PC monitor so plug in the VGA->SCART cable.

That should be all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 02:00:22 pm
sorry for all the questions, do I install on both card options or just primary?
On primary 800x600 is the lowest I can go but on the secondary I can choose 480x 600 (not sure exactly about this but something like that)
Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 02:03:59 pm
Only on primary, but you'll need to use quickres to select lower resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 02:13:53 pm
thanks I made a bit of a mess.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 03:26:31 pm
ok.
Did that and the screen is flashing black and white?
Reckon I have to go back to my s-video option.
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on September 30, 2008, 04:16:21 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 05:06:50 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 05:17:18 pm
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 05:41:49 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 01, 2008, 05:54:44 am
thanks for the link Sailorsat I am going to order that cable now.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 01, 2008, 02:47:33 pm
Me again Sailorsat.
Got my sister to give me a hand ordering the cable (as she is fluent in German)
The site has no CC or paypal option for payment, just cash or cheque or something.
Do you know what the story is with this?
I really need this cable  as I can't find it anywhere.
Any ideas.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 01, 2008, 09:13:14 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.

That's because you haven't spent what would amount to less time reading and understanding the information required to use these hardware and software properly. As for scart cables, if you're UK, you may be able to order one from Ultimarc, or perhaps from someone on the boards local/semi-local to you.


Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Why bother?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 02, 2008, 03:02:07 am
Twin-X, notice it says in the stock set 31khz modes are interlace. As well, very early on SS posted that XGA mode. So you missed both these.

Well i do not need interlace and i do not need xga and yes i read it and i don't get it!!! ever tried to link a url and point out what you are trying to say?
I think you make it a sport over here to make people ashamed to ask questions. Consider that not everyone here is a techie or a native english!!!
However i think you are a nice person but you should try to set your "frustrion?" away and be more helpfull or silent.

The awnser from sailor was more satisfying then yours and it did the trick. This triggered me to donate $70. All it took was 1 line and the result was 2 happy people.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 02, 2008, 04:06:43 am
Thanks for the reply Ummon
 but my post was meant for Sailorsat?
I did spend loads of time reading forums and wiki's etc.
I am completely new to this and have done a lot in the last month and have learned a lot of new stuff but there is only so much you can take in in a month.
I bought a new graphics card, bought a scart to vga cable (which doesnt seem to be the one I need but how was I to know) and i did some research on soft 15khz.
If I had the right cable I wouldnt have needed the help.
I thanked Sailorsat for all the help and was never rude or intrusive.
I find it a bit strange that you find it necessary to reply to a post that was not meant for you and try to tell me that I havent spent time reading and researching?
You don't know what I have and have not done.
Thank you for the reply on purchasing the scart but there was no need for the attitude.
Sham.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on October 02, 2008, 11:21:27 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.

That's because you haven't spent what would amount to less time reading and understanding the information required to use these hardware and software properly. As for scart cables, if you're UK, you may be able to order one from Ultimarc, or perhaps from someone on the boards local/semi-local to you.



Dude, why was that necessary?   something happened during your day at your work? 


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 03, 2008, 06:18:16 pm
Often what one thinks they don't need, or need to know, is part of a rounding out of information that supports their efforts. In any case, I can't see after reading the wiki in its current state needing to ask or re-ask a lot of things I see asked around of late, so I re-suggest reading the wiki. I think it's a matter of people needing reassurance is all. That some perceive my suggestion in some personal manner would seem to underline this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 06, 2008, 05:27:30 am
I have read through all of this post and I decided just to ask, I apologise if this has been covered but alot of what was being said was kind of over my head as I am relativly new to this.

I will have a 8500GT on a TV with the VGA to SCART mod.

I have tried my best to research all of this but I find myself still confused.

Basically all these custom resolutions are throwing me off, I wanna set it up so that I get a picture on my TV and just play mame snes and megadrive roms.

Can this be done?

Does mame auto select the resolutions ?

Can I set windows to run at 640 x 480  through my TV and then just load up my ROM emulator and not worry about anything resolution related after that or is there more too it ?!

Also I see the 8 series Nvidia cards have a problem selecting lower resolutions, I have the option of a HD2400 ATI card would this be more suited?

Any advice is greatly appreciated as im struggling to grasp all this just now
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 06, 2008, 06:29:35 am
Hello Marc,

The 8500 is not working with this software :(

You should have more luck on the 2400 if i recall. But the 8500 is definatly a show stopper.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 06, 2008, 11:18:23 am
here's a link to a good ati comparison chart

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 06, 2008, 05:19:00 pm
Thanks for the replys guys,

I have managed to get a hold of a 7300GS :) which is on the compatible list!

So ill be going for that, Now I just need to figure out how to get past the bios screen without blowing up my TV, hahah

Any ideas ? :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 06, 2008, 05:20:11 pm
Eh turn on the tv after your pc booted?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 07, 2008, 04:35:23 am
I wont be able to access the TV as it will be enclosed in a cab :)

Is it possible to turn the TV on using timed relay?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 07, 2008, 10:46:27 am
use the pci card trick

set your pci as the primary display in your pc's bios setting and your soft15k card to secondary and then go to device manager in windows and disable the pci card.

power down the pc and next time you boot your pc the bios screen will load on the pci card with no monitor connected becuase it is set to primamary.

 soon as windows starts the pci that was doing the bios then become's disabled in windows and your secondary card running the soft15K will kick in and display winows at 15K.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on October 07, 2008, 12:46:33 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.

Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 07, 2008, 07:31:37 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.

Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Um, yes? I recommend re-reading what she said at the bottom.


Marc, if you don't want to mess about with this stuff than I suggest not using it. Just use S-video or component. Elsewise, you're going to have to have more patience and read through all the stuff. It will actually take less time than learning the hard Trial 'N Error way.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 08, 2008, 12:06:53 am
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 08, 2008, 02:02:28 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 08, 2008, 02:14:48 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

Yep. But you will have to use Soft-15kHz first. Then change the modes with PowerStrip
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 08, 2008, 02:16:13 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

Yep. But you will have to use Soft-15kHz first. Then change the modes with PowerStrip

Interesting. Thanks SailorSat. Looking forward to giving Soft-15Khz a try when my cab is completed. :)

Edit: One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 09, 2008, 08:09:55 pm
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.

Oh. Right. Duh. Partly I was confused because (as I remember them, but can't find them in a regular search) in the 'high refresh' modes posted, the refresh listed for each mode isn't 120 but 60. However, the clock is twice what it would be, which is the same in the case just above, but the 'doublescan' tells it to "double the scanlines".

Ah-ha Here it is. (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg691984#msg691984) But the image isn't displaying, at least for me. Easy to miss it, and a search with SailorSat as the poster didn't bring it up. Had to search only under 'modeline'.


Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

I tried out Powerstrip before soft15 came around, but couldn't get it to work. Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 10, 2008, 03:06:54 am
One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.



Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Actually powerstrip will read all available resolutions from windows, an the "detailed" definitions once the resolution is active.

Only downside is, that the powerstrip window is too big to be usefull below 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 10, 2008, 07:14:49 am
One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

The Radeon X600 was the card I was looking at. I can get one pretty cheap ($20) on eBay. Good to know it works. Thanks again. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on October 10, 2008, 11:39:11 am
I wont be able to access the TV as it will be enclosed in a cab :)

Is it possible to turn the TV on using timed relay?

On my vertical cab with a 26" Loewe TV, I wired in an extra power switch and mounted it in a discreet place on the cab so that I could turn the TV on/off separately.

BTW, here is your new VGA->SCART lead being tested on my 33" Grundig.  As you can see, all the colours look great in RGB splendour!  The hat in the foreground belongs to my daughter, who enjoys watching movies and playing windows games on the Grundig (a good side-benefit of this hobby).

My apologies to SailorSat - the PC is running Powerstrip for 15khz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on October 11, 2008, 07:04:06 am
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.

Ok, so alot of these lower resoultion modes will not work on a PC monitor then?? As i know the version 2 of the ArcadeVGA card stated that it worked with PC monitors, i just though this program would work in the same way?? So would i get better results if i doubled the refresh rates or doubled the scanlines on an LCD PC screen?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 11, 2008, 07:24:30 am
Both of these will work on CRT monitors, but only doublescanned will work on LCDs, as your LCD can't sync to 120Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 14, 2008, 03:52:10 pm
question for you sailorSat.

i have a passive ati radeon 3870 with dvi-vga dongle running with vga->rgb cable to a 25" sony trinitron scart rgb tv 4:3
running windows xp 32bit with catalist driver 8.9

all resolutions below 640x480 are steady, sharp not shaking resolutions

but when i select 640 x 480 or up the screen flikkers very much, i read something about selecting 480i instead of 480p

is a tv always shaking from 640x480 and up?

and second question, in mam.ini i selected change resolution , some games go to propper resolution but for example street fighter 2 world warriors goes to 640x480 and then stretches

why doest it go native?

thnx.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 14, 2008, 04:04:42 pm
question for you sailorSat.

i have a passive ati radeon 3870 with dvi-vga dongle running with vga->rgb cable to a 25" sony trinitron scart rgb tv 4:3
running windows xp 32bit with catalist driver 8.9

all resolutions below 640x480 are steady, sharp not shaking resolutions

but when i select 640 x 480 or up the screen flikkers very much, i read something about selecting 480i instead of 480p

is a tv always shaking from 640x480 and up?

and second question, in mam.ini i selected change resolution , some games go to propper resolution but for example street fighter 2 world warriors goes to 640x480 and then stretches

why doest it go native?

thnx.

Do you have Artwork enabled?
As for 640x480, yeah, actually a TV can't show real 480 lines, so it will flicker.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 14, 2008, 04:13:47 pm
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so 640x480 flickers always

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 14, 2008, 04:52:38 pm
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.








HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on October 14, 2008, 09:21:15 pm
I'm concerned about cables' construction quality, because the symptoms you describe could be due to poor connections on colour and/or sync signals.

I'd like to know the pinout for that cable.  For example, how do they send the RGB switching signal to pin 16?

I don't suppose that you could open it up and take photos each side so we can see the pinouts (and whether some wire connections are falling off)? 

Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.

HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2008, 12:08:22 am
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..

Because the Artwork will take some pixel space, even if you disable them.
Open your MAME.INI and set "crop-artwork" to 1, or remove your artwork path.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 02:04:44 am
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..

Because the Artwork will take some pixel space, even if you disable them.
Open your MAME.INI and set "crop-artwork" to 1, or remove your artwork path.

that worked like a charm ! thanks sailorsat.

i tried samurai showdown and the screen goes blank at 321x24? something any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 15, 2008, 03:25:22 am
I'm concerned about cables' construction quality, because the symptoms you describe could be due to poor connections on colour and/or sync signals.

I'd like to know the pinout for that cable.  For example, how do they send the RGB switching signal to pin 16?

I don't suppose that you could open it up and take photos each side so we can see the pinouts (and whether some wire connections are falling off)? 

Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.

HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.












Thanks for the reply Zebidee.
The picture gets better as I mess around with the res.
The way I have my cab setup at the moment is through the TV so I am not using the PC monitor at all.
Just to run you quickly through what I did.
Have a radeon 9250 pci 128mb card installed.
Ran soft 15khz (on the primary card) set the resolution to 600x480
Rebooted the machine, connected the scart to vga and I can see the desktop but it flickers slowly down the screen.
Just another thing on this, the vga-scart cable has a usb cable coming from the scart end which has to be connected or I get no picture at all, there is also 2 audio connections coming off this.
Cheers.
I can open the scart when I get home and take some pics if it would help.
I hope its not my card as I bought this and the cable especially for the cab.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 10:51:47 am
t the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.
So, the best card is the ati x800xt (are x800XT, x800GTO and x800 the same for soft15KHz?) because nvdia cards have a limit on the number of resolutions you can add, right?

Quote from: SailorSat
Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Actually powerstrip will read all available resolutions from windows, an the "detailed" definitions once the resolution is active.

Only downside is, that the powerstrip window is too big to be usefull below 640x480.
The changes you make with PS are saved in soft15khz, or have I to reload it every time?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on October 15, 2008, 11:07:03 am
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

Good to know. Is anything newer than a x800 have the higher limit.

Also, do you know what exactly the pixelclock limit is for the older (e.g. X800) actually is?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 11:34:36 am
Double post sorry.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 15, 2008, 02:28:07 pm
I use a X1950 pro ddr3 512MB with these:

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

the x800's may not have to do that and able to run them res's as is but they lack the horse power compared to higher end cards that can be used with pretty much the same great results.

the only reason I went with that card is I wanted to be able to play pc games of today where the arcadevga and early X-series is just not getting it done anymore.

I also figured by getting that card and it being the strongest vga card they made I would not have to worry about updating it ever until a whole new pc rig is made.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:02:18 pm
where do you add these lines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 04:08:03 pm
You add these lines in the "custom.txt"

Interesting post northerngames.
These changed resolutions look like the originals? Can you notice the difference?

One thing I have not understand is how you can modify these res mantaining the centering, stretch, width, etc..

PS: Have you tested nulldc with this video card? Wich is your model of x1950 (sapphire, peak, etc.). thx :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2008, 04:20:24 pm
You add these lines in the "custom.txt"
It's custom15khz.txt


These changed resolutions look like the originals? Can you notice the difference?
One thing I have not understand is how you can modify these res mantaining the centering, stretch, width, etc..
They don't look like the originals. The have black borders. Simply impossible to get them with those high pixelclocks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:43:29 pm
lol

first i bought a radeon 8600 passive then sailersat told me to get ati so i got a radeon 3870 passive
and now i need a old card like the x800 to be able to use all these resolutions.

my radeon 3870 doesnt do 321x240 or lower :(

what the best thing to do then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:59:16 pm
oh, i found a pc what is mine with a radeon x800 xl card pcie

is that same for x800?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 15, 2008, 05:48:27 pm
oh, i found a pc what is mine with a radeon x800 xl card pcie

is that same for x800?

Yes!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 15, 2008, 08:18:28 pm
 I take no credit for the res's I posted everything worked like the arcadevga for me except a few after I started to use stock soft15K.

 I had mentioned them and the display problem to sailor and was sent that .txt file to try and it worked great for me.

 I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

I just used the file provided for me  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 02:56:17 am
I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

So, no black borders with those removed resolutions? Have you tryied them?
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 03:24:13 am
I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

So, no black borders with those removed resolutions? Have you tryied them?
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

I have the same setup as northern. There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Your conclusion is odd because he is happy with the resolution it has to be borderless? Some games look great close to their native resolution that you take the borders for granted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 03:44:45 am
There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Ok, but if you change between resolution, you will always have to deal with width pots on the monitor.

Are those black borders "top-bottom" or "left-right" (or both)?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 05:47:05 am
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 06:40:26 am
There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Ok, but if you change between resolution, you will always have to deal with width pots on the monitor.

Are those black borders "top-bottom" or "left-right" (or both)?

Well i am fortunate that it remebers the setting per refresh setting so (15khz 25khz and 31khz).
Just pick the nicest one in your case.

The borders are some times on top (widescreen look alike games.) and some are on the side (neo geo type) It differs per game. Only on a few verticals i have borders on both sides.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 06:48:25 am
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again

It does not make a diffrence if you swap cards. It is because of the number of pixels you use. The picture does not stretch to fill up those lost pixels this is why you see borders.

You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 07:06:02 am
arent neogeo games full screen like samurai showdown?

it has borders and so does sf2
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 07:48:53 am
They are full screen if you have a resolution in windows that is 320x224 You probably have something bigger. 320x240 i think so there is a gap of 16 pixels. These pixels are the borders!

So neo geo has black borders on the sides. SF has borders on top and bottom.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 07:56:49 am
i have set in mame.ini switch_res to 1
then it should switch to the correct reolutions does it not?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 08:11:56 am
You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.

With an ArcadeVGA and also with the great AdvanceMame, I was able to have no lateral borders (only top/bottom) with all resolutions (neogeo also).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 09:03:07 am
You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.

With an ArcadeVGA and also with the great AdvanceMame, I was able to have no lateral borders (only top/bottom) with all resolutions (neogeo also).

I also have an arcade vga. I got borders on some games. As said it depends on the resolution you choose. I never used advancemame (too old unfortunatly for me)

However i have the feeling this discussion is becomming an endeless thread so i stop now.

Quote
i have set in mame.ini switch_res to 1
then it should switch to the correct reolutions does it not?
No it switches to the closest resolution mame thinks is good for the game. (this is not always the best choice) A custom game.ini can solve this for those game you wich to change.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on October 16, 2008, 09:27:45 am
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

Good to know. Is anything newer than a x800 have the higher limit.

Also, do you know what exactly the pixelclock limit is for the older (e.g. X800) actually is?

SailorSat did you see this query? also curious to know how you found the 7.12mhz limit...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 10:29:00 am
i got my gigabyte GV-RX80L256V back  :cheers:

Powered by ATI RadeonTM X800XL VPU

this card is possible to handle all the resolutions native even with borders. Right??  :dunno

(http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/Image/vga_productimage_gv-rx80l256v_big.jpg)

i will try it  :-\


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 16, 2008, 12:07:21 pm
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again

I'll explain step by step what happens.

1. There is the "Front-End" Resolution, in our case let it be 321x240.
Software chooses from those resolutions and picks the one that suits it the best.
In Case of MAME and Neo-Geo, it will fit the 320x224 image by leaving 1 pixel on the right "blank", so it does with 8 pixel at the top and 8 at the bottom.


2. There is the "Back-End" Resolution.
This is where the problem starts.
An image on the screen has basically 4 "zones".
The first is pretty simple, the so called "active" video, where the picture is shown.
Then there is the "front porch" area, which is usually black (or blue on a commodore 64) which is used as compensation for the so called "overscan" on monitors, as screens dont have "plain" edges.
Follong this "Front Porch" is the so called "Scan" Zone, in which the CRTs beam will be set to be next line.
Last there is the "Back Porch", which is pretty much the same as the front porch, except is lies BEFORE the actual image.


Even though the Porches and the Scan don't produce any image (like said, usually black), they get "clocked" in pixels.
So just lets say with all porches and stuff, your 321x240 image actually is more like 384x256 "pixels", which sum up to 98304 pixels.

As the image gets drawn 60 times per second, the card has to produces 5898240 pixels.
The timer for this is called the "pixelclock".

5898240 Hz = 5898,24 kHz = 5,89824 MHz

The problem is, that newer ATI cards can't be clocked below 7,12 MHz, so I have to fill in "pixels" somewhere.
As I can't add more "active" pixels, I have to increase the porches and the Sync (actually these have to stay in some kind of relationship to each other).

Thats why you can't get "perfect" modes with newer cards.

You X800 is perfectly able to clock down way below 4 MHz.



SailorSat did you see this query? also curious to know how you found the 7.12mhz limit...

Actually I didn't see it.
Well I simply tried out, clocking the resolutions down until it didn't display anymore.
I don't know the limit on the older cards, but it seems to be way below 4 MHz, (240*240).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 12:55:22 pm
Great explanation SailorSat! So, if I've understood, the problems involves side black borders (left/right).

One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 16, 2008, 01:46:15 pm
One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?

My skills in fortune telling aren't that good, sry :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 01:59:59 pm
One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?

My skills in fortune telling aren't that good, sry :)

Really? And what if i buy you a glass sphere :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 05:24:01 pm
installed th x800 xl and installed soft15khz (only 15khz option)

ran mamepp.exe with switchres_1 and crop_artwork 0 and triplebuffering d3d and hardwarestretching 1

then started samurai showdown 1 and the screen blanked on me  :angry:

wasnt the x800 able to run al the resolutions?

streetfighter 2 had 25% black borders on both sided..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 05:41:08 pm
Try using ddraw instead of d3d and disable hardware stretching.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 16, 2008, 07:43:58 pm
I also use the same settings as the arcadevga use's to the T and I also us the avgain tool I think it is called so it does the res's for you.

SF2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/IMAG0063.jpg)

pics due no justice though but it is a full screen on mine

 it's the sapphire version there the only one's that made the ddr3 512MB version its also a power hog that requires two molex plugs to power and most low end psu are not going to get it for these watts mean nothing it is all about the sustained amp output so I went with a corsair VX-550 to power its hunger.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 02:48:57 am
this is what happens with sf2

Parsing mame.ini
Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = GIGABYTE RADEON X800 XL
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   320x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 734.809102
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 759.424485
   400x 300@ 60Hz -> 730.177174
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 731.770165
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 726.321038
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 724.605833
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 722.884694
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 722.257347
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 721.822568
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 722.884694
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 723.087490
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 722.539751
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 721.373804
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 721.110827
   720x 576@ 60Hz -> 720.875865
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 720.685520
   848x 480@ 60Hz -> 720.811449
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 720.539313
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 720.268368
  1280x 720@ 50Hz -> 10.142946
Direct3D: Mode selected =  392x 240@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 392x240
Direct3D: Max texture size = 2048x2048
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 03:16:24 am
You will have to remove the custom15khz.txt with the X800.

*EDIT* Wait... What Catalyst are you using? It seems it's way to new (320x240 and others should NOT be there)

Give Catalyst 6.5 a try -> http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 04:13:45 am
ok, ill try 6.5

ddraw with hardware stretching off was also better

sf2 is supposed to be 384 x 224 pixels

and it ran in 388 x 228 pixels

MAME Native Vs Scaled Resolution is just bothering me..

another problem is that in 640x288 i can control everything in the service menu to get the screen right

but when it flips to 320x240 for example then i cant control it and it has a border only on the left side, its a non gfx border
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 04:34:26 am
SF2 should run in 392x240 rather than 384x288
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:04:37 am
lol, why does it choose that one then?

do you have a perfect costum15khz.txt for my card tv combi :) and mame.ini settings?

or what do you recommend

getting tired of this  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 05:11:21 am
You don't need a custom15khz.txt with the X800.

As for SF2... You may want to use the AVRES tool.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:23:54 am
ah, never used that before

also some nice info on http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainst.html

ill try it this weekend !
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 17, 2008, 10:54:59 am
 I used the avres tool from that link above not the avgain tool like I was thinking/posting prior.

 I'm also using mamefx not just stock mame so all volume levels are balanced out instead of one game whispering and then another screaming loud and having to play with the volume knob for each game.

the mamefx type avoids all that and balance's the sounds out to be the same level without playing with the volume knob all the time.

sf2 was 384 x 224 in that pic
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 17, 2008, 12:41:03 pm
Northern, when you change between resolutions have you to adjust the image with monitor pots, or are all res centered and horizontally stretched?

PS: Mamefx has also the great "sync audio with video" option, borrowed from SailorSat's CabMame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:30:49 pm
SF2 should run in 392x240 rather than 384x288

perfect !! its great now , why does AVRES tool set it to 384x288?

do you also have the perfect neogeo resolution?

it keeps wanting to go to 321x something that my tv or card cant handle

isnt the x800 supposed to support 321x?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 05:38:07 pm
Like I said, Catalyst 6.5.
The newer ones don't work well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 17, 2008, 05:54:03 pm
Any hopes of putting in Intel video drivers?  I've got a PC with onboard video that has an awesome form factor.  I can almost get it working with PowerStrip, but my lack of know-how has me floundering.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 17, 2008, 07:43:12 pm
Northern, when you change between resolutions have you to adjust the image with monitor pots, or are all res centered and horizontally stretched?

PS: Mamefx has also the great "sync audio with video" option, borrowed from SailorSat's CabMame.

I dont have to adjust the monitor after I got it in a sweet spot I have not toached them and no adjustments are needed.

97% display fine and in screen but there are a few that are stretched off the screen a little but there mostly old old one's anyhow.

the way I was looking at it is I had a choice I could have all the perfect res's and no up to date pc games or suffer a few old one's but be able to play most any up to date pc game I can throw at it except one's that run a minumum of 1024X768.

I originally got the card for resident evil 4 and company of heroes and the call of duty's playing them on the cab was cool and with the trackball on some it made it even funner.

I just installed John woo's stranglehold but I am going to use the MS wireless co