Shut down windows vs just powering off PC

[markronz]

Hey guys, I've had my arcade machine up and running for nearly a year now and it's been working great.    I currently have it set to a remote control that turns it on or off.

See here:
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BG108000-04-Conserve-Energy-Saving/dp/B001GQ2W6W

I've been afraid to ask this for a while now since I am afraid of the answer, but I'm finally going to ask...

Are there down falls to just powering down your computer, like that without letting windows shut down normally?    I am using Windows XP.    So far it seems like it doesn't matter.  Occasionally I've had it so that it resets the controller config file, but my solution to that was to create a script that re-copies the config file back into the mame folder every time the pc boots up.

So, what do you think?   Does it matter that I'm just cutting out the power?    I really really really don't want to find a way to shut down the pc normally.   I can do it with a mouse, but I'm of the mind where I want things to look like a real arcade machine, not a pc.

[thecheat]

Go into the Power Options control panel and under Advanced tab, choose "When I press the power button on my computer" and select "Shut down." When you press and release the power button that turns the computer on, it will also shut the machine down.

Forcing a shutdown is going to  catch up with you sooner or later and this is a very elegant solution.

[severdhed]

Go into the Power Options control panel and under Advanced tab, choose "When I press the power button on my computer" and select "Shut down." When you press and release the power button that turns the computer on, it will also shut the machine down.

Forcing a shutdown is going to  catch up with you sooner or later and this is a very elegant solution.

+1

[markronz]

I have everything hooked up to the power strip I linked above.   So once I flip the switch on the remote, it cuts the power to the computer and everything else.   Then I just changed the BIOS screen so that it auto powers on once the power returns.

So currently I do not have the PC power switch wired up to anything.   That's what is prompting this conversation.   I don't really want to wire up the power button to anything unless I need to.    So how exactly will it "catch up with me."   That's sort of the information I am looking for.

Thanks for your help!

[ahofle]

Windows background processes could be in the middle of writing to the disk when you kill the power which could result in corrupt files or sectors.

If you want everything to shut down with your computer, check out a Smart Strip:
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LCG3-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B0006PUDQK/ref=pd_sim_e_3
Then you just shut down your PC (gracefully) and all the other devices will shut off automatically. 

[markronz]

Well, that would still require me to wire up the shut down button on the PC some where, BUT, I will admit that is pretty sweet.    If I ever decide to do something like that, I will probably use that power strip.


Thanks guys!

[ahofle]

Well it's not a requirement to extend the power button, but it's probably the cleanest solution.  I just shut down windows via the start menu (using trackball and mouse buttons).  I also have a keyboard tray which I use to power up the computer.

[Beretta]

1. some FE's have shutdown option..
2. if not how about adding a entry (assuming it can handle more then one emulator) to run shtudown.exe?

try the command "shutdown -s - f"

-s is for shutdown, -f is for force incase a program is holding the process up.

some bios support automatic power up when regaining power, even when they was'nt previously on during the power outage.

if you're using keyboard hack or encoder some bios support power on by key press or password.

just hitting the power switch is'nt good and i guarentee you it will catch up with you at some point.. if it has'nt already.. just because the computer still boots does'nt mean it does'nt have any errors in the file system, you could already have corrupted files you dont even know about.

this will by no means save you.. but it will reduce the likely hood of a problem, right click on my computer, go to properties, then hit hardware tab, then device manager.. then expand disk drives, double click on your hard drive you'll see "enable write caching" checked by default.. uncheck it..

this will hurt the speed of the hdd by removing the memory cache, however it will reduce the possibility of file corruption by quite a lot.

again this is not an idea solution for what you've been doing but it will at least help you until you find a better one.

[smalltownguy]

If you're concerned about maintaining an 'authentic' arcade experience when shutting down your computer, you can try editing your shut down graphics to a black box. The BYOAC wiki walks you through the process of hiding many windows elements in the 'Hiding Windows' section. It was there that I figured this out.

When I hit my computer's 'power down' button now, all I get is a blank, black screen while the CPU finishes the shutdown sequence, and then the computer shuts off, sending the monitor into standby mode. Very slick. The effect to the untrained eye is that I've shut down the whole cabinet, since the screen goes black right after I hit the button.

I also don't need to be concerned with corrupt files, fragments, and any 'recovery' scans at startup, since as far as XP is concerned, the computer is shutting down normally.

[markronz]

Great suggestions guys, thank you very much.   

Now I'll have to take a gander out there to see if I can find a guide on how to wire the pc power switch to some sort of button.   

If someone knows of a good guide on how to do that off hand, that'd be great, otherwise, I'm sure I can find something out there...

[TheShanMan]

You might also consider using standby mode instead of shutting down fully. Makes for super quick power offs and power ons!

[DaOld Man]

I use an app I wrote to automatically shut down the computer when you exit your front end:

http://skennys_outpost.tripod.com/thelauncher/index.html

[Bender]

I use an app I wrote to automatically shut down the computer when you exit your front end:

http://skennys_outpost.tripod.com/thelauncher/index.html

download site no longer up for the launcher

[DaOld Man]

That is true, sorry about that, but the site that hosted my files (winsite.com) went belly up.
If you want the launcher, just PM me your email address and I will mail it to you.

[mvsfan]

your doing too much work dude.

Set your pc to also shut down properly when you hit the power button, and then connect an arcade pushbutton up to your motherboard for the power button, and hide it somewhere on your cabinet like on the very top away from little kids or anyone else who would press it.

works great for me going on 7 years now.

Nother thing youve got to be acutely aware of. HIDE your wireless keyboard way on a top shelf or in a back room somewhere.

ITs never good enough that your willing to switch games for a kid.

When he picks up on what your doing he wants to mash that keyboard too.

I had to spend weeks of downtime because of this once.

I set up a game and went to bed and set the keyboard down on my bench and the next morning the cabinet that had run great for 4 years was doing all kinds of funky ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that only access to a keyboard would cause.

[Beretta]

if you want to wire up a button to a standard ATX motherboard it's simple.. just run the 2 wires to a momentary contact button.. a arcade button will even work..

one side to "COM" the other to "NO", does'nt matter which..

you just need to make a momentary circuit to power on the board.

[Jack Burton]

This is the point where I diverge from the illusion of having an authentic arcade machine.  My cab powers down just like a regular pc, with a windows desktop and all. 

This sort of detail has absolutely nothing to do with functionality or gameplay, and doesn't look bad at all. In fact I kind of like the seeing that desktop for a brief second during startup and and shutdown, reminds me that it's a MAME cab after all. 

BUT, if you must I suppose you could always rig your monitor power and speakers to one switch and the pc power down button to a tiny button next to the switch.  This way you can flip the monitor switch to get that nice bump sound from the speakers and see the crt shrink like an old tv.  Then you can push the power button (I recommend a led lit one) to turn off the pc. 

OR, you could just run your cab off of a CD and have it store everything in RAM.  In this way you can turn it on and off just like a real cab. 

[njay]

here is what i did:


1. get a free pushbutton
2. get some wires
3. rip a power switch from some old pc housing
4. extend the cables from the power switch to your pushbutton
5. wire it up to the microswitch

and voila it works !  i have a vid up on youtube showing it
search for njaynl

[DJ_Izumi]

Are there down falls to just powering down your computer, like that without letting windows shut down normally?

Just cutting power to a computer happens in life and is normally not a threat.  However if you are doing it on a regular basis, that's something different entirely.  Just cutting power can cause power surges that will damage the computer.

True story;  My cat once stepped on the switch under the power bar of my desk.  I crawled under to reset it and turn on my computer and it wouldn't POST.  Turned out that she managed to burn out the RAM by cutting power with the power bar.  The POST diagnostic LEDs were reporting failure at memory check and the stick had to be replaced.

Now, this is a remarkably rare occasion, I imagine I could hit the power bar under my desk or blow a fuse or something and the computer will be fine.  Do it OFTEN enough however and eventually it'll bit you in the ass.

[Finchbyrd]

I got a couple momentary buttons from radiocrack that I'm going to install behind the coin return doors. They're the 3amp kind, 1 red 1 black, and they're very low profile, they don't stick out far at all which I love. Problem is that they need a 1/2" hole to put them through, and half inch bits are massive, so I have to figure out how to drill through the steel of the coin returns rear, but I have tons of tutorials and info on what bits to use and stepping and all that. What I don't know however is what gauge wire to use to attatch them to the mobo switch wires. I was thinking of tearing open an ethernet cable and using a couple of those but I'm not sure if they can handle it. Any ideas for me? Also, what gauge wire does the cp buttons on the arcade use? I need a few to attatch to a t-tap wire splice on my harness for the J-Pac.

[smalltownguy]

I got a couple momentary buttons from radiocrack that I'm going to install behind the coin return doors. They're the 3amp kind, 1 red 1 black, and they're very low profile, they don't stick out far at all which I love. Problem is that they need a 1/2" hole to put them through, and half inch bits are massive, so I have to figure out how to drill through the steel of the coin returns rear, but I have tons of tutorials and info on what bits to use and stepping and all that. What I don't know however is what gauge wire to use to attatch them to the mobo switch wires. I was thinking of tearing open an ethernet cable and using a couple of those but I'm not sure if they can handle it. Any ideas for me? Also, what gauge wire does the cp buttons on the arcade use? I need a few to attatch to a t-tap wire splice on my harness for the J-Pac.

We've all dealt with fried power supplies in our lives, right? Surely you have a cooked computer power supply floating around somewhere, or know someone who does. You've got all the wire you'll ever need for miscellaneous wiring projects on your cab right there. If you need more length than that, just solder a few together.

I'm all all about freeeeeeee   

[Finchbyrd]

Ha, free is best, its funny you say that. I do believe we had, at one time or another, 3 pc power supplies. Well, spring cleaning occurred and I have no idea where they are now haha.

[bkenobi]

One other option for you to consider.  If you want to keep your current set up and not add any more buttons or anything to the FE to confuse things, you could opt to add a UPS that can connect to the PC via USB.  These devices come with software that can be configured to immediately shut down when power is lost.  If you do that, then you can cut power with your current switch and the PC will shut down when it's done doing it's thing.  If it takes too long (because it's being stupid or something) then it will run out of battery and go off anyway.  This also protects from brown/black outs depending on how you have it set up.

[Beretta]

pretty much any guage wire will work for the power button.. unlike the older AT's where it made a circuit for power to flow though.. on ATX it's controlled by the mother board.

there is no AC power going thought he button ATX, only very low voltage DC.. it's just enough for a singal.

any wire will work.. it's also very brief circuit.

if you have some ethernet cable thats usually 24, or 22 gauge, that will work just fine.

[drventure]

Another possibility. I've set up my cab this way (though I'm still waiting to hook up my power ON switch).

Get a copy of POWEROFF
http://users.telenet.be/jbosman/applications.html

Put it on the path somewhere

Set up a bat file to run the command line
Poweroff poweroff -force

The save it as Turnoff.bat somewhere

Create a shortcut to it and configure the shortcut with a hotkey of, oh, say CTRL-F11 or something.

Now, configure your IPAC to generate that keystroke on a shifted button press.

Viola! The machine performs an orderly powerdown (not just an instance poweroff), at the press of a button that's ALREADY on your control panel. No extra buttons, no wires, etc.

Now to turn things on, if possible, set the BIOS of your mobo to "Wake on KBD/Mouse". You'll need the IPAC plugged into the PS2 plug for that to work (at least with the MOBO I've got, an ASUS m3n78-vm, others will likely be a little different.)

You may need to configure WAKE ON USB if the keyboard/encoder is on a USB port.

And if it doesn't work, you may STILL need to run wires for the Poweron switch. Just depends on your mobo at that point.

[markronz]

One other option for you to consider.  If you want to keep your current set up and not add any more buttons or anything to the FE to confuse things, you could opt to add a UPS that can connect to the PC via USB. 

This is a great idea!   I think I might do this with my cab just so that I don't have to add an additional power switch, and that way I can continue to use my remote.    So far I've found this USB UPS, currently out of stock on this site, but is available on ebay and other places I am sure:
http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=171837
If anyone knows of any similar cheaper options for USB UPS's please let me know!

Also, all of this information was very helpful because I plan on building another cabinet some day and now I know how to do things correctly next time!

[severdhed]

just out of curiosity, what front end are you using?

cat5 (ethernet) would work just fine to extend the pc power switch to a pushbutton located somewhere else on the cabinet...which is what i do and it works great.  I used a $20 craftsman auto switch to control everything in my cabinet..it was easy and cost effective.

as for it showing the windows desktop when you shut down, that can be easily hidden.  there is a great article in the wiki about hiding windows.  you can set your desktop background to either all black, or to match the background from your front end.  either way, nobody would ever know it is a windows PC. (except for maybe the bios screen when it is booting up.

[bkenobi]

Most USB's these days have a connection to the PC AFAIK.  I have a few APC units and all but one (the cheapo one of course) has that capability.  The only down side to doing it this way is that you will need to run Powerschute in the background which will take a small amount of resources.  I don't actually use the UPS this way on the arcade, but it should work fine.

[markronz]

I use Mala.    I know there are ways to use that to shut down properly, but I am just scared that it won't turn back on once power is restored to the computer. I don't want to have to open up the cab to hit the power button every time.    I might just say screw the remote controlled surge protector and buy the one someone linked earlier.   I don't know.  I'm up in the air about all of this, I will have to think about which method I want to pursue.

[Finchbyrd]

Another possibility. I've set up my cab this way (though I'm still waiting to hook up my power ON switch).

Get a copy of POWEROFF
http://users.telenet.be/jbosman/applications.html

Put it on the path somewhere

Set up a bat file to run the command line
Poweroff poweroff -force

The save it as Turnoff.bat somewhere

Create a shortcut to it and configure the shortcut with a hotkey of, oh, say CTRL-F11 or something.

Now, configure your IPAC to generate that keystroke on a shifted button press.

Viola! The machine performs an orderly powerdown (not just an instance poweroff), at the press of a button that's ALREADY on your control panel. No extra buttons, no wires, etc.

Now to turn things on, if possible, set the BIOS of your mobo to "Wake on KBD/Mouse". You'll need the IPAC plugged into the PS2 plug for that to work (at least with the MOBO I've got, an ASUS m3n78-vm, others will likely be a little different.)

You may need to configure WAKE ON USB if the keyboard/encoder is on a USB port.

And if it doesn't work, you may STILL need to run wires for the Poweron switch. Just depends on your mobo at that point.

That's a very good idea, I'll look into this and ditch the buttons all together. Does this have a reboot command?

[drventure]

Yep, Monitor off, sleep, lock machine, Logout, etc. It's a pretty nifty little app.

I use it to (on a hotkey) logout of the autoboot "gaming" user profile, so I can easily log into my administrator profile and muck around with stuff. The gaming user doesn't have access to any of that, or has only read access. Should help prevent nosy players from mucking things up 

[Epyx]

  I just shut down windows via the start menu (using trackball and mouse buttons).

That is all I do...then once its off I just pull the plug out of the wall..in Bios i have it set to boot up on AC so once its plugged in everything loads back up...very easy.

[Finchbyrd]

That is excellent, I may still need to install an easily accessible reset button in case it hard-locks on me, then key presses wont do the 

[mrbones]

I use the hidden arcade button for the power switch on the PC. I have a UPS inside my cab so I can't use the power on when AC is present trick so I just tap the button. We have so many thunder storms in this tropical climate (Florida) that the power flickers a lot.

I once had a PC with a UPS and a bad battery that while I was writing a file the power flickered just for a second. That was enough to screw windows and corrupt some files. All it did then was boot to a blue screen. I had to reload the whole thing.

[Finchbyrd]

Another possibility. I've set up my cab this way (though I'm still waiting to hook up my power ON switch).

Get a copy of POWEROFF
http://users.telenet.be/jbosman/applications.html

Put it on the path somewhere

Set up a bat file to run the command line
Poweroff poweroff -force

The save it as Turnoff.bat somewhere

Create a shortcut to it and configure the shortcut with a hotkey of, oh, say CTRL-F11 or something.

Now, configure your IPAC to generate that keystroke on a shifted button press.

Viola! The machine performs an orderly powerdown (not just an instance poweroff), at the press of a button that's ALREADY on your control panel. No extra buttons, no wires, etc.

Now to turn things on, if possible, set the BIOS of your mobo to "Wake on KBD/Mouse". You'll need the IPAC plugged into the PS2 plug for that to work (at least with the MOBO I've got, an ASUS m3n78-vm, others will likely be a little different.)

You may need to configure WAKE ON USB if the keyboard/encoder is on a USB port.

And if it doesn't work, you may STILL need to run wires for the Poweron switch. Just depends on your mobo at that point.

I can't get the shortcut to accept cntrl anything, it'll add shift or alt everytime, and I'll press f11 and it goes back to "None". I have it set at something I can physically press but I'm afraid in an intense street fighter alpha game or something I'll hit them and power down the pc.

[drventure]

I used a shifted key on my ipac to get to the hot key. Since my shift key is the player 1 start button (the default i believe) it's pretty unlikely that'll get hit in combo with the other required buttons during an actual game.

[Finchbyrd]

That's what I figured, except the shifted keys are the number 5, p, and 2 or 3 others. I can't do just that as the hotkey, its asking for ctrl+shift+ and I can add a key, ctrl and shift are defaulted to some joypad buttons, guessing randomly player 1's button 1 and 5, so id be pressing those and shifting by pressing player 1 start to access P, its a octopus of hand buttons because pressing player 1 start isn't the actual shift button, it just allows the ipac/jpac to allow additional keys, which you knew of course I'm just stating for those reading along who may not.

[drventure]

Yeah, it was a bit byzantine to get something set that would work AND be able to hit it on my control panel.

One thing that was VERY odd that I noticed was that using a modifier button (ie a button that normally is mapped to Ctrl/shift/alt) with an IPAC SHIFTED BUTTON required that the modifier being in THE OTHER BANK from the shifted button. Get that? Yeah, it took A LOT of playing around to get that setup to actually work.

For instance, if your IPAC SHIFT button is P1 start, and you map the P1 button 5 to a SHIFTED key of F11, then, in order to be able to press Ctrl-Shift-F11, Ctrl and Shift have to be mapped to buttons for players 3 or 4. If you try and map them to players 1 or 2, they just won't work (or they wouldn't for me).

If you look at the WIN IPAC TABLE view, you'll see P1 and 2 in the TOP SECTION and P3 and 4 in the bottom section. Those appearently make some sort of "bank", and modifiers can't be applied to buttons in the same bank? I'm guessing, maybe someone from Ultimarc coudl verify, but that's the way it appeared to work for me.

[Finchbyrd]

Wow that's bananas. Thanks for the replies, this part of the setup is still new to me, I just got the J-pac today and haven't hooked it up, I was trying to get all this on the mame pc setup so I can throw it in there and connect remotely to it if I need to do anything else, but it lags a lot visually with ultravnc but not remote desktop, which I know why but can't fix. Anyway, thanks for the help so far

[protokatie]

BTW you dont need a special program to do this, windows comes with a command line for dealing with shutdown and reboots.

http://www.computerhope.com/shutdown.htm

Throw the command with the appropriate arguments into a .bat file and use autohotkey to activate it (or have mala run it via CMD.exe upon exiting)

[mvsfan]

Go into the Power Options control panel and under Advanced tab, choose "When I press the power button on my computer" and select "Shut down." When you press and release the power button that turns the computer on, it will also shut the machine down.

Forcing a shutdown is going to  catch up with you sooner or later and this is a very elegant solution.

I agree wholeheartedly and this is exactly how i set mine up.

I used an old two pin connector i had taken from a dead pc case, and spliced some long wires onto it.

i plugged it into the power button place on the motherboard and then hooked that up to an arcade pushbutton on the very top of my cabinet.

then i configured windows to shut down when you press the power button, as previously mentioned.

It works flawlessly and always gets a proper shutdown.

one more thing i have done. when your pc does properly shut down, you also want the Monitor and the Marquee to turn off too.

Any DpSt or Dpdt 120v AC Relay put in a relay socket so you can change it  as it ages, that has a 12Vdc coil will work for this. Just Wire the 120v secondarys in between your power source, and your power strip. Wire one pin on the Coil up to one of the disk drive connectors on your computer power supply to the Yellow and wire the second one to one of the Black wires. Plug all of your 120v stuff into the power strip, and off you go.

everytime the Pc power supply is on, the Disk drive connector will have power, it will activate the coil in the relay, and act as a switch for whatever 120V line level things you have plugged into the power strip.

problem solved.

this is a total solution between these two methods.

Proper shutdown of your computer, and simultaneous shutdown of your entire arcade cabinet with one push of a button.