8liners chassis/TV tube to arcade monitor(Previously: Whooooo mama!)

[dhansen]

------ INTRODUCTION HEADER BY SAINT -------

The information in this thread is of an extremely high technical level and potentially dangerous nature. Messing around with the inside of your monitor can hurt you, it can potentially kill you. This is not a joke. Trying to save a few hundred dollars at the expense of your health or life is a poor trade. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.

---------- Doug's original message follows -------------

Just got my package from 8liners!  This is the company that sells replacement chassis for any arcade or TV crt to replace/convert it to an arcade monitor.... looks pretty sweet!

I'll post my findings later tonight!

Doug

[rampy]

good luck, can't wait to hear...

I hope you sig doesn't come to pass for this latest project =P

rampy

[SNAAAKE]

you actually know how to do this man(install chassais)?

You are a pimp..Post back and be carefull...

[Sasquatch!]

I think I"m more impressed with the fact that you were able to navigate the 8liners website!

[dhansen]

Yeah, I'm getting close.  These things don't use an isolation transformer, so I'm rewiring right now.  Does anyone know if you can run power directly into a power converter?  You know the one that converts AC to DC?  Like this?




Doug

[dhansen]

These things are pretty cool, you don't need a isolation transformer, they work with both my Wells Gardner CRT and Electrohome CRT although on the Electrohome I'm getting a bit of pincusioning that I can't tweak out.  

One of the biggest challenges is how to mount the darn thing, most monitors have their own specialized mounts but these mount with 4 screws straight down.   Looks like I'm gonna have to do some drilling (always fun to do around the CRT).  So far I'm going to have to give it a thumbs up, the picture is sharp and the colors are brilliant.  I'm using an Arcade VGA card on one and a Trident Blade card on another and they are both looking great.

Doug

Besides the pincusioning...

[PoDunkMoFo]

Have you tried it with a TV tube?

Pictures... Pictures..... Pictures.

You got me stoked!

[dhansen]

I'll try to post some pics after work today, results should be the same on a TV tube since they're the same thing as an arcade tube.  I don't have a TV tube to test with although I might have to go get one if I can't get the pincusioning out of my Electrohome tube.

Doug

[dhansen]

Here's a couple of pics of Game Launcher and Puzzle Bobble on my Wells Gardner horizontal monitor.  I'm pretty impressed with these chassis, not having to use an isolation transformer is a plus.  I'll be in Chicago on business next week but I'll try to get some more documentation up before I leave (hopefully!).  I've written to 8liners about the pincushion problem I'm having with my Electohome monitor hopefully they can point me in the right direction.

I took these in complete darkness with a tripod and a timer so they might be a bit over saturated.  My monitor is behind smoked glass (not plexi).

enjoy!

[SNAAAKE]

WOW !  ..i thought be be dead by now with all the monitor handling(monitors are VERY scary..i dont like them).

Looks great imho..one question though?

Did you try the TV tube?does the actual tube have anything to do with picture quility(like tv tubes would look worse or anything like that)?

Not that i ever wanna do this but always good to know.

[dhansen]

Hey Snake,

Yeah monitors are a little scary, my 9 year old came up behind me when I was working on one and tried to scare me...it worked.  I jumped a mile.  From what I understand, 60 hz monitors use the same type of CRT that a TV uses so the picture should be comparable.

Doug

[u_rebelscum]

Just got my package from 8liners!  This is the company that sells replacement chassis for any arcade or TV crt to replace/convert it to an arcade monitor.... looks pretty sweet!

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As I understand, it takes the signals from the arcade game and drives the tube's beams?  Is this close?

I have an old chassis-less monitor from a broken pole position standup cab and don't know what to do with it.  (The guy I got it from told me it was chassis-less, and I nodded my head without a clue what he meant.)  ~$50 for working steering wheel, gear shift, pedal, broken PCB, and a starting template for a new cab wasn't too bad.

[SNAAAKE]

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

Its the monitor PCB.you know the picture he just posted.thats a chassis(i cant possibly be wrong..right dhansen?).

[PoDunkMoFo]

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As I understand, it takes the signals from the arcade game and drives the tube's beams?  Is this close?

I have an old chassis-less monitor from a broken pole position standup cab and don't know what to do with it.  (The guy I got it from told me it was chassis-less, and I nodded my head without a clue what he meant.)  ~$50 for working steering wheel, gear shift, pedal, broken PCB, and a starting template for a new cab wasn't too bad.

That is what these boards are for.

The chassis is basically all the components besides the picture tube and the frame.

The cool thing about the chassis that this guy sells is that you can use them on picture tubes from TV's that no longer work.  I got a 27" NEC picture tube from a TV repair shop for free.  Add this guys chassis for $98 bucks and (BAM!) instant 27" arcade monitor.

[dhansen]

Well I'm having some mixed results, the Wells Gardner monitors I'm using them on work great.  However I'm not having as much luck with the electrohome CRT's one has really bad pincushioning and the other blew up!  No literally!  I hooked it up and plugged it in and pssssssssssssssssssssssss CRACK! A huge smoke plume and hissing sound of a vacuum tube de-pressurizing filled my game room!  I suspect it wasn't the fault of the chassis but of a cracked neck tube that finally gave way.  The latter monitor was about 23 years old and will now be put to rest...

Also his web site http://www.genao.com/datatech/monitor.html is a little difficult to figure out and he doesn't send any instructions along so unless you have a decent knowledge of how monitors work you are kind of left in the dark.  Luckily I've recapped a few chassis so I had a pretty good working knowledge.  

Victor at 8liners is a pretty cool guy but there is a language barrier there.  I think I'll hit the local TV repair shops with my multimeter for some used 19" CRT's...

Doug

[kspiff]

BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

[PoDunkMoFo]

BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

Check the above link.  There are two different chassis for dif size tubes.

[PoDunkMoFo]

Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes, No?

[bloodyviking77]

Hey there Dhansen,

Your screenies look pretty cool - seems to be a pretty good image with the 8liners product.

Hope you might be able to help a monitor newbie out!

I posted before about installing a chassis - cos I picked up a new tube/chassis combo for cheap  but with no info on how to put it all together.

I haven't put anything together yet, but I think I've figured out most of the connections. I have two quick questions:
(1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?

(2) And also I can't work out where the braided wire/spring/harness assembly connects?? Seems to be some sort of ground???

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

[dhansen]

First off BE CAREFULL!! I got zapped   about three times today off of the monitors I was switching around.  Even after you discharge the monitor there always seems to be some residual charge left in the CRT to give you quite a shock.

(1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?

Yes as you can see by the pic the G/Y go together (vertical) and the R/B go together (horizontal)  If your picture is backwards you may have to cut the plug down the middle and reverse the G/Y R/B.  The R/B pins are spaced farther apart than the G/Y so they only fit on the pins they are supposed to.



The ones on the left are for the G/Y connections the ones on the right are for B/R.

(2) And also I can't work out where the braided wire/spring/harness assembly connects?? Seems to be some sort of ground???

Yes this is a ground wire that connects to the neck board.

Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes, No?

It looks like he gets his chassis from http://www.jenshinn.com.tw/ a company inTiawan.  I've written them a letter inquiring about buying some chassis directly through them but I haven't had a response yet.

Good Luck!

Doug

[bloodyviking77]

  Thanks Doug!

Sorry if this is a real stoopid question, but the other ends of the earth strap (four braided wire loops) go to the bolting bracket/hole at each corner of the monitor right?

And also, as the power cable i got with the chassis is two pronged only (with a separate grnd connection marked on the main board), can i just run the ground connection to, say, ground on my pc power supply? or should I run the ground to an a/c plug and hack a new power cable?

Just don't want to blow anything up!
 
viking

[Brax]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

[PoDunkMoFo]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

I am no monitor guru but I think what you are describing is picture tube failure and would not be fixed with the chassis (I very well could be wrong).  I would bet if you check with a local TV repair shop you could get whatever size tube you wanted for cheap if not free.  I got a 27" tube for nada.

[RandyT]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

A Trinitron by any chance?

For some reason Trinitron tubes tend to go green at the end of their life cycles.  If it's a different kind of tube, it may be able to be "rejuvenated".  This entails boiling corrosion off of the electron emitters.  Sometimes it works well enough to get a few more years out of the set, and sometimes it doesn't.

BTW, when I say "boiling" I don't mean with water .  It takes a special (expensive) piece of equipment.

So if it the tube could be brought back, then you might be able to do something with it, but if not, it's dumpster bait.

RandyT

[Brax]

Alrighty. It's a friends old console tv. He actually wants to turn it into an aquarium! I thought I might have a use for his old tube but it sounds like it's toast. I'll keep up the hunt.

[MameFan]

Okay, I'll try to answer a few of the questions here, since we ARE dealing with something that can KILL you if you don't know what you're doing.

First off, thank you "dhansen" for ordering and trying one of these.  I have been wanting to order after seeing them advertized, and communicated a bit with Victor.  He seems short in replies but a friendly guy.  Yes, they may be a language issue too.   Hopefully if ALL of us work together we can:

1) Improve business for Victor
2) Help others upgrade with the CORRECT install instructions
3) Help people save money by not buying $300+ monitors when they can do this for under $100 including raiding a thrift store/rummage (garage) sale/tv shop for old 1980's TV's to use a tube from


This post will be long but I want to address many things brought up here.  Sorry in advance, but please let me know if this is of use to all.


- This seems to be a sparsely populated board. That's GOOD because less components to fail, easier to replace a capacitor/etc if needed.

- Dang, I've never seen a cleaner board !

- Glad to see it come with the yoke wires and what appears to be a RGB+Sync cable to connect to the gameboard???

- Nice that it integrates a switching power supply, thus removing the need for an isolation transformer


Now to answer the questions, in order of posting (sorry if it duplicates something). Again, want to help protect people who don't know how to handle/hook up these things


1 >   Does anyone know if you can run power directly into a power converter?  You know the one that converts AC to DC?  Like this?

Yes.  The AC INPUT on the switching transformer always breaks away from the LINE cord before it goes thru a normal isolation transformer.  With this chassis you can now entirely remove your isolation transformer (provided the only thing it did was provide a junction point between the line cord and the switcher AND ran 2 leads to the monitor (and of course AC ground).   Some systems however also have other windings that send out 14 or 19 or 27 volts to various components.. You'll need to keep the isolation transformer in place if that's the case, just not use the 120 v output to the monitor.

So basically, you can chop off the AC plug from the chassis and wire the two leads to the AC terminals that have wires comming back from the switch in the cab.  BUT BE SURE YOU CONNECT THE HOT TO HOT and NEUTRAL TO NEUTRAL. Check with an ohmmeter to be sure.   The neutral *SHOULD* be the white lined side of the cord going into the new chassis (and also the WIDE blade side). The hot should be black and the small blade side.  The hot from your switch should be the one going thru the FUSE and connected to a label on your existing isolation transformer marked 110-120V IN, and the neutral should be connected to the 0V In post.

Theoretically since the new chassis has a switching supply on it, polarity shouldn't matter ,but as matter of course, I always ensure things are neutral when neutral and hot+fused when hot and they match up to be safe in case anyone makes an assumption later.


.. continued ..

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

2 > they work with both my Wells Gardner CRT and Electrohome CRT although on the Electrohome I'm getting a bit of pincusioning that I can't tweak out. .....  I might have to go get one if I can't get the pincusioning out of my Electrohome tube.... I've written to 8liners about the pincushion problem I'm having with my Electohome monitor hopefully they can point me in the right direction.... the Wells Gardner monitors I'm using them on work great...not having as much luck with the electrohome CRT's one has really bad pincushioning

Okay, here's the deal here.  First, STOP what you're doing.. (get down upon your knees

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

Basically all you have to match when using a tube from an old TV set is the following:
- Neck size  - Compare the width of the neck at the back plug, make sure they're the same size (or match with the new chassis)
- Pin count - Make sure there is the same # of exposed pins on the original and new tube (or match with the new chassis)
- PIN ORDER **IMPORTANT--see question 5 below, I will explain this further there **
- YOKE resistance on vertical winding -- See question 2 above, all details are there.
- Angle of gun to top and bottom of vertical portion of tube (when laid horizontally)  What this means is, older tubes were generally 90 degree defelection. The gun angled up 45 degrees and down 45 degrees to draw the top and bottom lines on the tube (90 degree total).  Newer tubes are 100 or even 110 degrees, which means the tube is SHALLOWER, i.e. the gun is closer to the front of the tube, thus increasing the angle between the gun and the top and bottom of the tube. If the tube isn't the same angle, you will have geometry problems, even if everything else is correct. Not just pincusion, but tons of other stuff.  Look for a "19V90" etched (raised) in the glass on the back of the tube, or somewhere stating 90 degree deflection, or of course same part number or same depth.

Basically if everything match you can pop the tube in and go. If everything except the yoke matches, you can deal with swapping the yoke.  Swapping the yoke is involved and time consuming. I will discuss it in a separate post if anyone cares. But the intent is do use this chassis without changing yokes.


4> I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As others stated, it's the picture included in the top of the thread. A monitor is made up of 2 things

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

6> BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

The one shown above only works on 19-20" (and I think POSSIBLY on 13" as they have the same yoke impedence (resistance) and power requirements, but don't quote me on that).  8liners also sells ones for 25 or 27 inch tubes as well, that are different.


7> Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes...... It looks like he gets his chassis from http://www.jenshinn.com.tw/ a company inTiawan

Sounds good. I see they have tons of different styles, some with remote boards for adjusting things, some on board. Different boards for each size of tube too. Let us know what you find!


8> 1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?.....  The ones on the left are for the G/Y connections the ones on the right are for B/R.  

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

9> If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

While it is possible that your video drive circuitry is dying (one could test by swapping the leads to the guns on the neckboard to see if it changes the color that is displayed), it is highly likely that your tube has experienced what's called a "H-K" short.  Basically since the heater wires are so close to the electron guns (cathodes, thus H-K) particles fall inside the tube from the phosphorous or foreign things at time of manufacturer, and if the tube is tilted right during transport, it can collect at the gun and then cause the heater to constantly send power to the cathode.  For some reason the Green one is the most common one (due to tube design?)   Basically it's virtually impossible to fix (you can send tons of volts through the gun and heater to try to fry it off or tap the neck to make it fall off, potentially breaking the tube) but basically if this happens, just chuck the tube.

10> First off BE CAREFULL!! I got zapped   about three times today off of the monitors I was switching around.  Even after you discharge the monitor there always seems to be some residual charge left in the CRT to give you quite a shock.

Discharge once. Wait 1 minute, Discharge AGAIN, wait 1 more minute, Discharge a final time, unless you're still hearing a "pop".   Then don't leave the tube unconnected for too long. It can actually build up a charge (especially if its dry air) just sitting bare, without being grounded to the frame and anode cap.


DHassen-- does this new chassis bleed the charge out or did you get big pops as you were swapping tubes?  Most (properly working) old chassis (k4600, G07) bled off the charge within a few seconds, and if you waited 1 minute before trying to discharge, the wouldn't be anything to discharge anyway. (But always be safe instead of sorry!)


Well this got very long, and I have more to add later, but hopefully this helps answer all the questions, and gives you more to ask.

I plan on creating a message with pictures to help people identify TV tubes that are worth getting vs those that are old and not good to try (you can tell looking closely at the front of the tube with it off).

More to come

[rampy]

hey mamefan...

haven't seen you around on here lately (as far as posting)...  I found it informative and interesting (even if I never use one of victor's chasis)  

keep the info coming. =P

Rampy

[RandyT]

.. from previous ..

9> If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

While it is possible that your video drive circuitry is dying (one could test by swapping the leads to the guns on the neckboard to see if it changes the color that is displayed), it is highly likely that your tube has experienced what's called a "H-K" short.  Basically since the heater wires are so close to the electron guns (cathodes, thus H-K) particles fall inside the tube from the phosphorous or foreign things at time of manufacturer, and if the tube is tilted right during transport, it can collect at the gun and then cause the heater to constantly send power to the cathode.  For some reason the Green one is the most common one (due to tube design?)   Basically it's virtually impossible to fix (you can send tons of volts through the gun and heater to try to fry it off or tap the neck to make it fall off, potentially breaking the tube) but basically if this happens, just chuck the tube.

Good info, but this last segment is incomplete.  I have a $2000 Sencore Rejuvenator that does quite well at fixing H-K shorts (unless it's a really big hunk of crud) as well as the other things you don't mention.

Old CRTs commonly have corrosion on the emitters, especially if stored unused for long periods of time.  It takes a while for this corrosion to build up as there isn't much to cause it inside the tube.  But since there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum (except maybe for outer space) it does happen.

If all three are equally corroded, the result is a dim picture.  If not, you might get a picture that is dimmer than normal, and your colors will be uneven.  Could give the picture a green hue, or any other color depending on the state of the emitters.

A CRT Rejuvenator will send a controlled amount of energy to the emitter and cause the corrosion to "boil off".  This has the negative effect of a loss of a certain amount of emitter material (the material that forms the electrons that cause the phosphor on the screen to illuminate).

If there isn't much of this emitter material left, then there is no helping the tube.  Likewise, if the reason for the corrosion is migration of air molecules to the inside of the tube (a VERY slow loss of vacuum), boiling off the corrosion will only be a very temporary fix.

But not all tubes are junk because they have these problems.  I'd say a good  50% can still be used for a few years beyond "rejuvenation".  In fact, if you've ever bought an older used monitor, there's a good possibility that these techniques have been used on it.

Some TV guys will do the procedure and offer a guarantee.  Basically, if the fix doesn't hold, and they know it doesn't always, they might refund the cost of rejuvenation.  You'd have to ask to know for sure.

RandyT

[Brax]

What GREAT info! Thanks guys!

I'm really considering going this route. I've got my eyes peeled for tv tubes now!!!!!
As if I don't have enough junk!

Hmm, I built the cabinet.... the controls..... now I'm building a MONITOR?! It really never ends does it?

[Anonymously]

Great Info Mamefan.

Can anybody with a little know how do this???
I know that I have to discharge the monitor before poking around the tube, but how much do you need to know?

[MameFan]

> Can anybody with a little know how do this??? I know that I have to discharge the monitor before poking around the tube, but how much do you need to know?

The statement "little know how" scares me.  


I won't go into the details of discharging the monitor (other topics here discuss that, search the forum), but will list things you NEED to understand before undertaking this process.

- BASIC electrical knowledge, both DC as well as AC, including switches, transformers and fuses.

- You need to know the difference between a neutral line and a hot line, and which ones are which plug on your outlet

- You need to know how to measure OHM resistance and how to use a multimeter (pocket voltage/resistance tester).  You need to understand the basics of what Ohms are and how they relate.

- You need to know how to discharge the monitor safely, how it accumulates and stores charge and how to handle it safely

- You need to know what can and can't be touched on a monitor / chassis while powered up (basically NOTHING metal and you're pretty safe )

- You need to know what ALL the wires you need to connect do and need to go, lest you plug it in wrong and ruin it (or your self or others or your home)

- You need to know basic mechanics of how to mount the monitor and chassis safely to not ruin either or your game and provide the right support.

- You need to know the weak spots on the tube and what can be "grasped" and what should only be lightly touched (when off).

- You need to be able to follow basic traces on circuit boards and read the etched writing to ensure the pins are compatable.


That's a high level bit of information.  If you don't feel comfortable with this after reading other posts and other web sites about tube swapping (note: Most other sites talk about switching yokes and convergence rings which is a VERY time consuming process to realign the guns--something we're not talking about here), then you need to find someone who is.  A swap of a tube is not worth your life or property, when you can in fact buy a complete tube and chassis from this seller on eBay for about $130+shipping, or an authentic tube+frame+chassis from Happ for $300 ish.

When on, parts of the board have 120 volts at 1 amp running through them other parts up to the tube have up to 25,000 volts on them.... When off, the tube may still have 25,000 volts stored in it if something is wrong and it doesn't auto-discharge.  Definitely nothing to work with if you are not comfortable or know what you are doing.

If you are comfortable and want to undertake this, don't assume or even try to get this done in 30 to 60 minutes.  While I think most of us here that can do it, would finish in about 40 minutes using normal safety measures, plan for a 2-3 hour swap and take things slow, double and triple check, if not sure, ask, and protect yourself when repowering up by covering the monitor / cabinet (if mounted) with heavy cloth just in case something blows up, have a fire extinguisher handy for electrical/wood fires, etc...   No, you probably won't need them, but better be safe than sorry.  

Also without checking with an expert don't believe ANYTHING written unless backed up elsewhere.  Don't even believe what I say, as I am NOT a TV repairman, but just have become a hobbiest that can treat tubes with respect and know enough to be safe.

[dhansen]

Wow mamefan!  I'm on a business trip now but when I get back I'll document this chassis more thoroughly.  Thanks for the GREAT information.  On the electrohome, I can't remember what the ohm reading was but it was within Victors specs for a high impedence monitor...I probably didn't have my meter set correctly (since Victors instructions aren't too clear).  I'll recheck this when I get back.  Since I got the two Wells Gardner monitors working, I assume they're using the correct chassis.  Luckily Victor shows which caps/transistors to change to make it work with the Electrohome.  I would like to get this Electrohome working because it is so bright an colorful with a very small amount of burn-in.  Of course old TV tubes have NO burn in...I'm torn!

DHassen-- does this new chassis bleed the charge out or did you get big pops as you were swapping tubes?  Most (properly working) old chassis (k4600, G07) bled off the charge within a few seconds, and if you waited 1 minute before trying to discharge, the wouldn't be anything to discharge anyway. (But always be safe instead of sorry!)

I don't recall, it seems like there wasn't much of a pop but I could be mistaken.

Dhassen---I noticed in your picture that there are 2 rows of pins next to each other to connect the yoke.  Could you post a close up of the underside of the board (solder side) and show us what it looks like underneath the plugs?  My guess is they cross-wired them so that plugging into one plug produces a normal rotation, and the other swaps all 4 wires for you and gives you a 180 degree rotation.

I'm pretty sure you are correct about this, again, when I get back I'll post some pics of the back side of the board.

And Randy, I've heard of these monitor re-generators but I wasn't sure how they worked.  Thanks to you too!

It's nice to hear from 'real' monitor gurus..I'm just lucky I'm not dead..

Doug

[IG-88]

I plan on creating a message with pictures to help people identify TV tubes that are worth getting vs those that are old and not good to try (you can tell looking closely at the front of the tube with it off).

More to come

[Ken Layton]

Here is some yoke and CRT data for these two arcade monitors for those who want to use the 8liners chassis:

Sharp model XM-2001 (typically used in Nintendo cabinets): CRT is a 510YWB22 (8 pins)
Vertical yoke resistance is 15 ohms

Sanyo model 20-EZ (typically used in Nintendo cabinets): CRT is 510UTB22 (10 pins)
Vertical yoke resistance is 50 ohms

[dhansen]

Holy Crap!  The thread that WON'T DIE!!!  

Kinda cool though...

Doug

Has anyone gotten these to work with a regular TV tube?  Hmmm?  How bout some pics then!?

[Ken Layton]

More data:

Nanao model MS7-20S
Sega # 200-5072

CRT: 510WUB22 (10 pins)

Vert. yoke resistance: 50 ohms