Author Topic: 8liners chassis/TV tube to arcade monitor(Previously: Whooooo mama!) (Read 57619 times)

tom61 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 27, 2003, 06:29:45 pm »

Fine, I'm gonna change the thread title to something that makes since and stickying it.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #41 on:** October 29, 2003, 01:43:46 am »

The Wells-Gardner 19K7603 I just worked on has a 8 pin neck board and the vertical yoke resistance is 13 ohms.

RetroJames · « **Reply #42 on:** October 30, 2003, 06:38:30 pm »

MameFan, Ken Layton, and others in the know:

What is the CORRECT way to discharge a monitor and be sure that it is discharged and can be handled etc? I have read many "shortcuts" involving a screwdriver, but I gotta believe that is not safe. As Ken is already aware, I have a 25" (slightly burned in) WG form and off road cabinet. I need to remove the entire monitor from the cabinet to do some sanding and repairs then put the monitor back in. Also, I need to test it at some point and may need to discharge it afterwards. I am not a knucklehead by any means, but I am unfamiliar with monitors as well as electronics.

I am going to post a rear view of the monitor I have for reference, and hope that there is a guru out there who might be able to help. Thanks in advance, this thread is really good, just hoping to milk it a little more.

RetroJames · « **Reply #43 on:** October 30, 2003, 06:44:38 pm »

On the monitor pictured above, the WG 25" K7101, how is the isolation transformer(IT) installed? If you look in the lower left corner of that pic, there is two wires with a warning label stating, "must have isolation transformer". I am under the assumption that the IT is hooked up to those wires. On the other end, does the power cord hook directly up to the IT and then to the wall outlet?

I realize these may be really dumb questions, but this is how we learn and my wife would hate it if I became a crispy critter!

By the way, this is the IT I was going to order from HAPPS:

Isolation Transformer (UL)

Input 120 volts
Output 120 volts
Output power 120 watts
UL listed

Part Number

80-2000-00

Thanks!

RetroJames · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2003, 08:43:04 pm »

Top of the tube

Ken Layton · « **Reply #45 on:** October 31, 2003, 12:48:20 am »

The proper way to discharge a monitor tube for servicing is to use a "high voltage probe" such as B&K Precision's # HV-44A which you can buy from MCM Electronics (www.mcmelectronics.com) as their part number 73-520. Sometimes you can get high voltage probes on ebay. That's where I got mine for only $20. A high voltage probe is about 18 inches long (plastic well insulted housing) with concentric rings (just like a power pole glass insulator), a meter, and a cable with an alligator clip on it. To discharge the monitor first turn the power off and unplug the power cable on the monitor. Connect the probes' alligator clip to the monitor's metal frame ground (make sure it bites the metal real well). Now slide the probes' pointed tip under the suction cup on the picture tube until you feel it touch the metal clip and HOLD IT THERE FOR AT LEAST 30 seconds. You'll see the high voltage meter reading slowly fall to zero and hear the static electricity fade away. Now slide the probe back out from under the suction cup and go do something else for 5 minutes. Slide the probe under the suction cup again and guess what? It built up a small charge all by itself and you need to bleed it off again. Now after all this it should show zero volts on the meter so now it's safe to pop off the suction cup by gently squeezing and twisting a little bit.

OBSERVE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS: You are dealing with 20,000 volts. Always keep one hand in your pocket and not touching/leaning on the metal monitor frame.

As for that Isolation transformer purchase and hookup, that Happ Controls part number is the correct transformer for what you need to operate this monitor. To hook up the monitor you use the black and white wires on the monitor with the warning tag on them. The white connector on the end of that will go to the output side of the isolation transformer. The input side of the isolation transformer goes to your wall outlet. You will need to buy the correct connector to fit the monitors industry standard power connector. You want to buy Molex connector # 19-09-1029 and 2 pins Molex # 02-09-1101. I think you can buy the power cord with connector are ready to go at Wells-Gardner's website under monitor accessories.

RetroJames · « **Reply #46 on:** October 31, 2003, 12:41:24 pm »

Awesome info. Ken you should setup a webcast and give classes in this stuff. I would buy into it.

Anyway, here are a couple of great links Bob Roberts provided regarding powering up my monitor. In conjunction with Ken's notes above, all this info is really helping.

http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/basic-ac.gif
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/buildit.html

Ken Layton · « **Reply #47 on:** October 31, 2003, 11:59:00 pm »

Bob Roberts has done a wonderful job at explaining things for the average person.

RetroJames · « **Reply #48 on:** November 01, 2003, 01:22:40 pm »

Ken,

What specifications do I need to look for on ebay when shopping for a high voltage probe?

Are they all AC/DC?

The one you mentioned states on the info sheet:

Ken Layton · « **Reply #49 on:** November 01, 2003, 01:51:52 pm »

The high voltage probes you need are for DC volts and you want the ones with the plain old analog meter built into the probe. Some probes only have an output connector to feed to your own DIGITAL volt meter. In most cases the plain analog meter is the best choice because it responds rapidly so you can see at a glance whether you have too high or too low of voltage so that you have time to shut off the monitor right away and prevent damage to the monitor when replacing components. The probe should be able to read a max of 35 to 40 kv for the times a monitor overvolts due to a bad regulator. On ebay here's the links to get to test equipment: "All Categories" -> "Business & Industrial" -> "Test Equipment". Then enter "high voltage probe" in the searchbox on that page.

I used to have a nice HEATHKIT HV probe but some a**hole dropped it on the concrete floor at my former employer and busted it.

OSCAR · « **Reply #50 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:07:51 pm »

Okay, I finally got my hands on a free, *compatible* TV to use the 8liners chassis I purchased a while ago... Figures I buy the chassis first, a 10-pin low impedance chassis, and then all the free TV's I pick up are 8-pin necks! I wouldn't have it any other way, I guess...

I called a couple local TV repair shops asking if they had any good 19" tubes from broken TV's, but both places told me that they don't hang on to small tubes like that, they just throw them in the dumpster. One guy said that he would keep the next couple 19 inchers he gets for me.

This TV is a 20" Zenith with a manufacture date of 1994. This was literally a 10 minute changeout. The ground strap on the back of the tube had a 1/4" spade connector on it, and so I put a 1/4" female quick disconnect on the ground wire from the neckboard to connect them together. That was the only modification I had to make to fit the new chassis. Everything else was a straightforward swap over.

Below is a pic of the TV tube running an Irem Skins jamma board. I still need to tweak the colors in, but overall it has a really nice display. As Victor suggests, this is an extremely cheap way to have an essentially "new" arcade monitor. Total price: $73 for the chassis shipped, free TV tube.

RetroJames · « **Reply #51 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:10:24 pm »

Oscar, where in the heck do you find all the time to work on these projects!!!

RetroJames · « **Reply #52 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:15:17 pm »

Did you see what 8liners is charging for refurbs?

Refurbished, like new, not burns on the screen, new Chassis:
25 inches monitor: $160.00
19 inches monitor: $130.00
13 inches monitor: $120.00

That is not too shabby.

OSCAR · « **Reply #53 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:15:33 pm »

Quote from: 1hookedspacecadet on November 01, 2003, 05:10:24 pm

Oscar, where in the heck do you find all the time to work on these projects!!!

You would be amazed at how much you can get done if you only allow yourself 20 minutes of sleep per night...

OSCAR · « **Reply #54 on:** November 01, 2003, 08:03:10 pm »

The TV tube transplant was much easier than I suspected. I wasn't really sure how I was going to mount this tube since I didn't have a frame for it, but the mounting brackets I robbed out of the TV were perfect for mounting the tube to the cab's monitor board, it made it fit like a glove. I'm a bit surprised at how easily everything went together...

Since there is no frame, I mounted the chassis directly to the side of the cab. Using a TV tube with the 8liners chassis for a cab turned out to be an extremely simple installation; and cheap, too!

RetroJames · « **Reply #55 on:** November 01, 2003, 08:06:53 pm »

Did you have to adjust anything on that tube when you swapped them out? Did you need to "align" it?

OSCAR · « **Reply #56 on:** November 01, 2003, 08:15:41 pm »

Nope. That's one of the neat things about this conversion. No dinking around with the yoke or the purity rings becuase you don't do anything to the TV tube except put on a new neckboard & chassis.

This is why you need to know how many pins are on the neck and the yoke impedance so you can order a chassis to match what you have. I did it backwards, naturally, but that is what you would want to do if you know you have a good TV tube.

RetroJames · « **Reply #57 on:** November 01, 2003, 09:26:20 pm »

If you would have told me two months ago that I would be interested in and even ordering tools for television (arcade) tube repair, I would have told you that you had gone mad.

Never say never, this stuff is pretty interesting.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #58 on:** November 01, 2003, 10:30:07 pm »

Oscar:

Wow! Great picture on that thing. Looks like a nice professional installation, too.

Is that a Dynamo conversion cabinet?

dhansen · « **Reply #59 on:** November 03, 2003, 08:36:28 am »

Finally! Resolve! Great job Oscar! I was at our local thrift store this weekend (looking for Halloween clothes) and spotted an old 19" TV...hmmm only $10... time to take another stab at it...

Doug

Ken Layton · « **Reply #60 on:** November 03, 2003, 10:35:45 am »

Well, I've ordered an 8 liners chassis from Victor today. It was $73 with the shipping.

I've got a Sharp XM-2001 with a bad flyback (flybacks for this are unavailable having been that way for over 10 years according to Sharp). So when the new chassis gets here I'm gonna pop it in and see how it looks.

OSCAR · « **Reply #61 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:38:56 pm »

Thanks, Ken & Doug! I can see myself using more of these in the future to replace broken monitors, the conversion was so easy.

From what I have found so far with this chassis is that you may a little hit 'n miss with finding a good tube to use with it.

When I first bought the chassis, it was to replace the chassis from a K4600. However, the pincushion was so terrible, it bowed in by about an 1" on each side, that it wasn't really usable. I also had trouble getting good colors on the K4600 tube, too. So I fixed the 4600 chassis and put it back on the tube, the colors are bright and sharp like I couldn't get with this replacement chassis. This made me a little sour on the 8liners chassis at first since all I had to test with it at the time were 4600 tubes.

Now with this Zenith tv, it is much better. The display is nearly indistinguishable from one of my K4900 or GO7's. What would make the 8liners chassis much more appealing would be a pincushion control, and I believe it would help it be compatible with a larger amount of tubes.

Ken - Yes, it's a Dynamo cab. I have more pics of it at http://www.oscarcontrols.com/guerrilla. The vinyl-like surface finish was peeled off the speaker board, so I still need to touch that up.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #62 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:42:22 pm »

Sounds like your cabinet has vending machine vinyl on it.

OSCAR · « **Reply #63 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:46:31 pm »

No, it's more like a heavy latex paint. It's not like vending vinyl at all, but rather like some kind of flexible melamine finish.

delta88 · « **Reply #64 on:** November 04, 2003, 02:16:18 pm »

free tube? did I say it was free? just wait till you get my bill in the mail.. thats a very rare 10 pin.. it was ownedby famous people.. well it had famous people on it

OSCAR · « **Reply #65 on:** November 04, 2003, 02:26:23 pm »

Free... in exchange for getting your 2.25" trackball working, new encoder wheels on your kick t'ball, *giving* you that 25" monitor....

OSCAR · « **Reply #66 on:** November 06, 2003, 10:41:22 pm »

Here's a couple pics of the Zenith tv w/ 8liners chassis in the cab. The dark band that shows up in the photos is the camera picking up the monitor refresh. My camera must be sensitive to the oddball 57Hz refresh rate of the Heavy Barrell board as the band isn't visible with your eye.

The Zenith tv tube w/ an 8liners chassis is proving to be a very nice combo so far. I'm happy with it.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #67 on:** November 06, 2003, 10:55:54 pm »

Gee.....that looks great!

I think the 8liners chassis I ordered will arrive tomorrow (Friday).

OSCAR · « **Reply #68 on:** November 07, 2003, 01:03:58 pm »

MonitorGuru - My chassis doesn't seem to hold a charge like yours does. After I had the power off for an hour or two, I discharged the tube to remove the chassis and there was a barely audible crackle, and no residual zaps either. I did this a number of times swapping the chassis with other tubes with the same results. I certainly never got a huge zap like you describe. Granted that my GO7 & K4600's seem to discharge themselves rather quickly in comparison to the 8liners chassis, but I didn't find it too much different.

If you read some of my previous posts, you'll see I came to pretty much the same conclusion about the K4600 tubes - they are basically unusable with this chassis.

One other thing about this chassis is that it is so quiet. You know how you can walk into a room and know a TV is on even if the sound is off because you can hear the high voltage whine? That is almost inaudible with this chassis, especially compared to my GO7 which drowns out the 5 other tubes in the room.

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #69 on:** November 07, 2003, 03:38:27 pm »

Oscar --

Do you have a couple megs of storage (and bandwidth) to host some of the pics? I tried to take pics of every step of the process (overkill right now) but also of all the tubes with rather close up shots showing differences/similarities when I swapped the tubes in the K4600 and the 8liners. I could zip em up for you if you had some space to post. They're not huge, but definitely too big to post all in this thread.. We're talking 5 pics per tube per chassis, all about 80k each.. that's 50 pics or ~4 meg worth?

As far as the quietness.. one of the tubes/yokes actually had a resonance that was quite audible. As I adjusted brightness it got quite a bit louder than a G07 or K4600. It seemed to be comming actually out of one of the (iso/switchmode?) transformers on the chassis board and not from the yoke or flyback area. None of the other tubes/yokes caused that problem.

I actually have an acute ear for the 15.75 Khz cycle. I can be 50 feet in front of someones house and if they have an open door or window I can say with certainty that they have a 19" or larger TV running, and then I look and sure enough they do. The dog ears I have unfortunately are bad when working on monitors like this. At least I know if the horizontal scan is working without even a picture! LOL

OSCAR · « **Reply #70 on:** November 07, 2003, 06:11:49 pm »

Sure, email them to me at info@ oscarcontrols.com, and I'll post links to them.

...Or better yet, I'll PM you the links and you can post them describing what they are pics of.

Nailz · « **Reply #71 on:** November 13, 2003, 11:14:29 am »

Quote from: 1hookedspacecadet on November 01, 2003, 05:15:17 pm

Did you see what 8liners is charging for refurbs?

Refurbished, like new, not burns on the screen, new Chassis:
25 inches monitor: $160.00
19 inches monitor: $130.00
13 inches monitor: $120.00

That is not too shabby.

So has anyone done this? I am interested as I don't really want to put my hands in an old TV. If anyone has, is this basically like buying an arcade monitor as in the last thing I would have to do is hack a VGA cable and get an ArcadeVGA card?

Thanks

Ken Layton · « **Reply #72 on:** November 13, 2003, 11:55:33 am »

It would be like a regular arcade monitor.

Nailz · « **Reply #73 on:** November 13, 2003, 12:47:42 pm »

Ok, I am a bit confused now, I basically asked the same question to Vic at 8liners and this was his response.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Marty,

You need a VGA monitor not a CGA.....Mame needs VGA and my monitors
are for arcades games, the standard used in arcades games.

Vic
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So would an ArcadeVGA NOT work with one of his monitors, or is he just not aware that the ArcadeVGA will work with an Arcade monitor?

Thanks again,

Marty

tom61 · « **Reply #74 on:** November 13, 2003, 06:03:17 pm »

Quote

So would an ArcadeVGA NOT work with one of his monitors, or is he just not aware that the ArcadeVGA will work with an Arcade monitor?

He's just not aware that the ArcadeVGA can connect to arcade monitors. The ArcadeVGA isn't exactly mainstream hardware, so most people don't know about it. I think at least one person here has used an 8liner's chassis with the ArcadeVGA.

dhansen · « **Reply #75 on:** November 13, 2003, 06:22:33 pm »

Quote from: tom61 on November 13, 2003, 06:03:17 pm

I think at least one person here has used an 8liner's chassis with the ArcadeVGA.

I've used an ArcadeVGA with an 8-liners chassis...works great!

Doug

Ken Layton · « **Reply #76 on:** November 13, 2003, 06:43:37 pm »

My 8liners chassis has arrived! Might be able to get around to trying it tonight. Will let everyone know how it works out.

Nailz · « **Reply #77 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:22:59 pm »

One last question on the 8liners refurbished monitors, do they have isolation transformers on them, or would I need to get one?

Thanks for the help.

OSCAR · « **Reply #78 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:24:45 pm »

Isolation transformers are not required with the 8liners chassis. If your cab already is wired for it, though, it is okay to use it.

thetered · « **Reply #79 on:** November 14, 2003, 02:43:02 am »

This maybe a stupid question but the 19in seems fairly simple to swap out, but has anyone one done the 25in? is it basically the same thing just bigger screen? Cause i'm trying to descide between buying just the chasis or going ahead and buying one of their refurbished montiors.


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