8liners chassis/TV tube to arcade monitor(Previously: Whooooo mama!)

[dhansen]

------ INTRODUCTION HEADER BY SAINT -------

The information in this thread is of an extremely high technical level and potentially dangerous nature. Messing around with the inside of your monitor can hurt you, it can potentially kill you. This is not a joke. Trying to save a few hundred dollars at the expense of your health or life is a poor trade. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.

---------- Doug's original message follows -------------

Just got my package from 8liners!  This is the company that sells replacement chassis for any arcade or TV crt to replace/convert it to an arcade monitor.... looks pretty sweet!

I'll post my findings later tonight!

Doug

[rampy]

good luck, can't wait to hear...

I hope you sig doesn't come to pass for this latest project =P

rampy

[SNAAAKE]

you actually know how to do this man(install chassais)?

You are a pimp..Post back and be carefull...

[Sasquatch!]

I think I"m more impressed with the fact that you were able to navigate the 8liners website!

[dhansen]

Yeah, I'm getting close.  These things don't use an isolation transformer, so I'm rewiring right now.  Does anyone know if you can run power directly into a power converter?  You know the one that converts AC to DC?  Like this?




Doug

[dhansen]

These things are pretty cool, you don't need a isolation transformer, they work with both my Wells Gardner CRT and Electrohome CRT although on the Electrohome I'm getting a bit of pincusioning that I can't tweak out.  

One of the biggest challenges is how to mount the darn thing, most monitors have their own specialized mounts but these mount with 4 screws straight down.   Looks like I'm gonna have to do some drilling (always fun to do around the CRT).  So far I'm going to have to give it a thumbs up, the picture is sharp and the colors are brilliant.  I'm using an Arcade VGA card on one and a Trident Blade card on another and they are both looking great.

Doug

Besides the pincusioning...

[PoDunkMoFo]

Have you tried it with a TV tube?

Pictures... Pictures..... Pictures.

You got me stoked!

[dhansen]

I'll try to post some pics after work today, results should be the same on a TV tube since they're the same thing as an arcade tube.  I don't have a TV tube to test with although I might have to go get one if I can't get the pincusioning out of my Electrohome tube.

Doug

[dhansen]

Here's a couple of pics of Game Launcher and Puzzle Bobble on my Wells Gardner horizontal monitor.  I'm pretty impressed with these chassis, not having to use an isolation transformer is a plus.  I'll be in Chicago on business next week but I'll try to get some more documentation up before I leave (hopefully!).  I've written to 8liners about the pincushion problem I'm having with my Electohome monitor hopefully they can point me in the right direction.

I took these in complete darkness with a tripod and a timer so they might be a bit over saturated.  My monitor is behind smoked glass (not plexi).

enjoy!

[SNAAAKE]

WOW !  ..i thought be be dead by now with all the monitor handling(monitors are VERY scary..i dont like them).

Looks great imho..one question though?

Did you try the TV tube?does the actual tube have anything to do with picture quility(like tv tubes would look worse or anything like that)?

Not that i ever wanna do this but always good to know.

[dhansen]

Hey Snake,

Yeah monitors are a little scary, my 9 year old came up behind me when I was working on one and tried to scare me...it worked.  I jumped a mile.  From what I understand, 60 hz monitors use the same type of CRT that a TV uses so the picture should be comparable.

Doug

[u_rebelscum]

Just got my package from 8liners!  This is the company that sells replacement chassis for any arcade or TV crt to replace/convert it to an arcade monitor.... looks pretty sweet!

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As I understand, it takes the signals from the arcade game and drives the tube's beams?  Is this close?

I have an old chassis-less monitor from a broken pole position standup cab and don't know what to do with it.  (The guy I got it from told me it was chassis-less, and I nodded my head without a clue what he meant.)  ~$50 for working steering wheel, gear shift, pedal, broken PCB, and a starting template for a new cab wasn't too bad.

[SNAAAKE]

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

Its the monitor PCB.you know the picture he just posted.thats a chassis(i cant possibly be wrong..right dhansen?).

[PoDunkMoFo]

I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As I understand, it takes the signals from the arcade game and drives the tube's beams?  Is this close?

I have an old chassis-less monitor from a broken pole position standup cab and don't know what to do with it.  (The guy I got it from told me it was chassis-less, and I nodded my head without a clue what he meant.)  ~$50 for working steering wheel, gear shift, pedal, broken PCB, and a starting template for a new cab wasn't too bad.

That is what these boards are for.

The chassis is basically all the components besides the picture tube and the frame.

The cool thing about the chassis that this guy sells is that you can use them on picture tubes from TV's that no longer work.  I got a 27" NEC picture tube from a TV repair shop for free.  Add this guys chassis for $98 bucks and (BAM!) instant 27" arcade monitor.

[dhansen]

Well I'm having some mixed results, the Wells Gardner monitors I'm using them on work great.  However I'm not having as much luck with the electrohome CRT's one has really bad pincushioning and the other blew up!  No literally!  I hooked it up and plugged it in and pssssssssssssssssssssssss CRACK! A huge smoke plume and hissing sound of a vacuum tube de-pressurizing filled my game room!  I suspect it wasn't the fault of the chassis but of a cracked neck tube that finally gave way.  The latter monitor was about 23 years old and will now be put to rest...

Also his web site http://www.genao.com/datatech/monitor.html is a little difficult to figure out and he doesn't send any instructions along so unless you have a decent knowledge of how monitors work you are kind of left in the dark.  Luckily I've recapped a few chassis so I had a pretty good working knowledge.  

Victor at 8liners is a pretty cool guy but there is a language barrier there.  I think I'll hit the local TV repair shops with my multimeter for some used 19" CRT's...

Doug

[kspiff]

BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

[PoDunkMoFo]

BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

Check the above link.  There are two different chassis for dif size tubes.

[PoDunkMoFo]

Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes, No?

[bloodyviking77]

Hey there Dhansen,

Your screenies look pretty cool - seems to be a pretty good image with the 8liners product.

Hope you might be able to help a monitor newbie out!

I posted before about installing a chassis - cos I picked up a new tube/chassis combo for cheap  but with no info on how to put it all together.

I haven't put anything together yet, but I think I've figured out most of the connections. I have two quick questions:
(1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?

(2) And also I can't work out where the braided wire/spring/harness assembly connects?? Seems to be some sort of ground???

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

[dhansen]

First off BE CAREFULL!! I got zapped   about three times today off of the monitors I was switching around.  Even after you discharge the monitor there always seems to be some residual charge left in the CRT to give you quite a shock.

(1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?

Yes as you can see by the pic the G/Y go together (vertical) and the R/B go together (horizontal)  If your picture is backwards you may have to cut the plug down the middle and reverse the G/Y R/B.  The R/B pins are spaced farther apart than the G/Y so they only fit on the pins they are supposed to.



The ones on the left are for the G/Y connections the ones on the right are for B/R.

(2) And also I can't work out where the braided wire/spring/harness assembly connects?? Seems to be some sort of ground???

Yes this is a ground wire that connects to the neck board.

Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes, No?

It looks like he gets his chassis from http://www.jenshinn.com.tw/ a company inTiawan.  I've written them a letter inquiring about buying some chassis directly through them but I haven't had a response yet.

Good Luck!

Doug

[bloodyviking77]

  Thanks Doug!

Sorry if this is a real stoopid question, but the other ends of the earth strap (four braided wire loops) go to the bolting bracket/hole at each corner of the monitor right?

And also, as the power cable i got with the chassis is two pronged only (with a separate grnd connection marked on the main board), can i just run the ground connection to, say, ground on my pc power supply? or should I run the ground to an a/c plug and hack a new power cable?

Just don't want to blow anything up!
 
viking

[Brax]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

[PoDunkMoFo]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

I am no monitor guru but I think what you are describing is picture tube failure and would not be fixed with the chassis (I very well could be wrong).  I would bet if you check with a local TV repair shop you could get whatever size tube you wanted for cheap if not free.  I got a 27" tube for nada.

[RandyT]

This is for all the monitor guru's.....

If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

A Trinitron by any chance?

For some reason Trinitron tubes tend to go green at the end of their life cycles.  If it's a different kind of tube, it may be able to be "rejuvenated".  This entails boiling corrosion off of the electron emitters.  Sometimes it works well enough to get a few more years out of the set, and sometimes it doesn't.

BTW, when I say "boiling" I don't mean with water .  It takes a special (expensive) piece of equipment.

So if it the tube could be brought back, then you might be able to do something with it, but if not, it's dumpster bait.

RandyT

[Brax]

Alrighty. It's a friends old console tv. He actually wants to turn it into an aquarium! I thought I might have a use for his old tube but it sounds like it's toast. I'll keep up the hunt.

[MameFan]

Okay, I'll try to answer a few of the questions here, since we ARE dealing with something that can KILL you if you don't know what you're doing.

First off, thank you "dhansen" for ordering and trying one of these.  I have been wanting to order after seeing them advertized, and communicated a bit with Victor.  He seems short in replies but a friendly guy.  Yes, they may be a language issue too.   Hopefully if ALL of us work together we can:

1) Improve business for Victor
2) Help others upgrade with the CORRECT install instructions
3) Help people save money by not buying $300+ monitors when they can do this for under $100 including raiding a thrift store/rummage (garage) sale/tv shop for old 1980's TV's to use a tube from


This post will be long but I want to address many things brought up here.  Sorry in advance, but please let me know if this is of use to all.


- This seems to be a sparsely populated board. That's GOOD because less components to fail, easier to replace a capacitor/etc if needed.

- Dang, I've never seen a cleaner board !

- Glad to see it come with the yoke wires and what appears to be a RGB+Sync cable to connect to the gameboard???

- Nice that it integrates a switching power supply, thus removing the need for an isolation transformer


Now to answer the questions, in order of posting (sorry if it duplicates something). Again, want to help protect people who don't know how to handle/hook up these things


1 >   Does anyone know if you can run power directly into a power converter?  You know the one that converts AC to DC?  Like this?

Yes.  The AC INPUT on the switching transformer always breaks away from the LINE cord before it goes thru a normal isolation transformer.  With this chassis you can now entirely remove your isolation transformer (provided the only thing it did was provide a junction point between the line cord and the switcher AND ran 2 leads to the monitor (and of course AC ground).   Some systems however also have other windings that send out 14 or 19 or 27 volts to various components.. You'll need to keep the isolation transformer in place if that's the case, just not use the 120 v output to the monitor.

So basically, you can chop off the AC plug from the chassis and wire the two leads to the AC terminals that have wires comming back from the switch in the cab.  BUT BE SURE YOU CONNECT THE HOT TO HOT and NEUTRAL TO NEUTRAL. Check with an ohmmeter to be sure.   The neutral *SHOULD* be the white lined side of the cord going into the new chassis (and also the WIDE blade side). The hot should be black and the small blade side.  The hot from your switch should be the one going thru the FUSE and connected to a label on your existing isolation transformer marked 110-120V IN, and the neutral should be connected to the 0V In post.

Theoretically since the new chassis has a switching supply on it, polarity shouldn't matter ,but as matter of course, I always ensure things are neutral when neutral and hot+fused when hot and they match up to be safe in case anyone makes an assumption later.


.. continued ..

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

2 > they work with both my Wells Gardner CRT and Electrohome CRT although on the Electrohome I'm getting a bit of pincusioning that I can't tweak out. .....  I might have to go get one if I can't get the pincusioning out of my Electrohome tube.... I've written to 8liners about the pincushion problem I'm having with my Electohome monitor hopefully they can point me in the right direction.... the Wells Gardner monitors I'm using them on work great...not having as much luck with the electrohome CRT's one has really bad pincushioning

Okay, here's the deal here.  First, STOP what you're doing.. (get down upon your knees

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

Basically all you have to match when using a tube from an old TV set is the following:
- Neck size  - Compare the width of the neck at the back plug, make sure they're the same size (or match with the new chassis)
- Pin count - Make sure there is the same # of exposed pins on the original and new tube (or match with the new chassis)
- PIN ORDER **IMPORTANT--see question 5 below, I will explain this further there **
- YOKE resistance on vertical winding -- See question 2 above, all details are there.
- Angle of gun to top and bottom of vertical portion of tube (when laid horizontally)  What this means is, older tubes were generally 90 degree defelection. The gun angled up 45 degrees and down 45 degrees to draw the top and bottom lines on the tube (90 degree total).  Newer tubes are 100 or even 110 degrees, which means the tube is SHALLOWER, i.e. the gun is closer to the front of the tube, thus increasing the angle between the gun and the top and bottom of the tube. If the tube isn't the same angle, you will have geometry problems, even if everything else is correct. Not just pincusion, but tons of other stuff.  Look for a "19V90" etched (raised) in the glass on the back of the tube, or somewhere stating 90 degree deflection, or of course same part number or same depth.

Basically if everything match you can pop the tube in and go. If everything except the yoke matches, you can deal with swapping the yoke.  Swapping the yoke is involved and time consuming. I will discuss it in a separate post if anyone cares. But the intent is do use this chassis without changing yokes.


4> I'm going to sound noobieish, but ... what exactly is a chassis?

As others stated, it's the picture included in the top of the thread. A monitor is made up of 2 things

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

6> BTW, do these work only on 19-20" tubes or any size..?

The one shown above only works on 19-20" (and I think POSSIBLY on 13" as they have the same yoke impedence (resistance) and power requirements, but don't quote me on that).  8liners also sells ones for 25 or 27 inch tubes as well, that are different.


7> Hey dhansen, if victor the source or a middleman?  If there were a better instruction set these things could take off with people around here for TV tubes...... It looks like he gets his chassis from http://www.jenshinn.com.tw/ a company inTiawan

Sounds good. I see they have tons of different styles, some with remote boards for adjusting things, some on board. Different boards for each size of tube too. Let us know what you find!


8> 1) how do I work out the connections to the yoke (i.e. the four coloured wires which connect to a molex-looking connector on the main chassis)? These are the horiz and vertical phase connections?.....  The ones on the left are for the G/Y connections the ones on the right are for B/R.  

[MameFan]

.. from previous ..

9> If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

While it is possible that your video drive circuitry is dying (one could test by swapping the leads to the guns on the neckboard to see if it changes the color that is displayed), it is highly likely that your tube has experienced what's called a "H-K" short.  Basically since the heater wires are so close to the electron guns (cathodes, thus H-K) particles fall inside the tube from the phosphorous or foreign things at time of manufacturer, and if the tube is tilted right during transport, it can collect at the gun and then cause the heater to constantly send power to the cathode.  For some reason the Green one is the most common one (due to tube design?)   Basically it's virtually impossible to fix (you can send tons of volts through the gun and heater to try to fry it off or tap the neck to make it fall off, potentially breaking the tube) but basically if this happens, just chuck the tube.

10> First off BE CAREFULL!! I got zapped   about three times today off of the monitors I was switching around.  Even after you discharge the monitor there always seems to be some residual charge left in the CRT to give you quite a shock.

Discharge once. Wait 1 minute, Discharge AGAIN, wait 1 more minute, Discharge a final time, unless you're still hearing a "pop".   Then don't leave the tube unconnected for too long. It can actually build up a charge (especially if its dry air) just sitting bare, without being grounded to the frame and anode cap.


DHassen-- does this new chassis bleed the charge out or did you get big pops as you were swapping tubes?  Most (properly working) old chassis (k4600, G07) bled off the charge within a few seconds, and if you waited 1 minute before trying to discharge, the wouldn't be anything to discharge anyway. (But always be safe instead of sorry!)


Well this got very long, and I have more to add later, but hopefully this helps answer all the questions, and gives you more to ask.

I plan on creating a message with pictures to help people identify TV tubes that are worth getting vs those that are old and not good to try (you can tell looking closely at the front of the tube with it off).

More to come

[rampy]

hey mamefan...

haven't seen you around on here lately (as far as posting)...  I found it informative and interesting (even if I never use one of victor's chasis)  

keep the info coming. =P

Rampy

[RandyT]

.. from previous ..

9> If I had an old tv that was turning green, would a new chassis fix it? Or is that the fault of the tube? Could I rescure that old tv and turn it into a killer arcade monitor?

While it is possible that your video drive circuitry is dying (one could test by swapping the leads to the guns on the neckboard to see if it changes the color that is displayed), it is highly likely that your tube has experienced what's called a "H-K" short.  Basically since the heater wires are so close to the electron guns (cathodes, thus H-K) particles fall inside the tube from the phosphorous or foreign things at time of manufacturer, and if the tube is tilted right during transport, it can collect at the gun and then cause the heater to constantly send power to the cathode.  For some reason the Green one is the most common one (due to tube design?)   Basically it's virtually impossible to fix (you can send tons of volts through the gun and heater to try to fry it off or tap the neck to make it fall off, potentially breaking the tube) but basically if this happens, just chuck the tube.

Good info, but this last segment is incomplete.  I have a $2000 Sencore Rejuvenator that does quite well at fixing H-K shorts (unless it's a really big hunk of crud) as well as the other things you don't mention.

Old CRTs commonly have corrosion on the emitters, especially if stored unused for long periods of time.  It takes a while for this corrosion to build up as there isn't much to cause it inside the tube.  But since there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum (except maybe for outer space) it does happen.

If all three are equally corroded, the result is a dim picture.  If not, you might get a picture that is dimmer than normal, and your colors will be uneven.  Could give the picture a green hue, or any other color depending on the state of the emitters.

A CRT Rejuvenator will send a controlled amount of energy to the emitter and cause the corrosion to "boil off".  This has the negative effect of a loss of a certain amount of emitter material (the material that forms the electrons that cause the phosphor on the screen to illuminate).

If there isn't much of this emitter material left, then there is no helping the tube.  Likewise, if the reason for the corrosion is migration of air molecules to the inside of the tube (a VERY slow loss of vacuum), boiling off the corrosion will only be a very temporary fix.

But not all tubes are junk because they have these problems.  I'd say a good  50% can still be used for a few years beyond "rejuvenation".  In fact, if you've ever bought an older used monitor, there's a good possibility that these techniques have been used on it.

Some TV guys will do the procedure and offer a guarantee.  Basically, if the fix doesn't hold, and they know it doesn't always, they might refund the cost of rejuvenation.  You'd have to ask to know for sure.

RandyT

[Brax]

What GREAT info! Thanks guys!

I'm really considering going this route. I've got my eyes peeled for tv tubes now!!!!!
As if I don't have enough junk!

Hmm, I built the cabinet.... the controls..... now I'm building a MONITOR?! It really never ends does it?

[Anonymously]

Great Info Mamefan.

Can anybody with a little know how do this???
I know that I have to discharge the monitor before poking around the tube, but how much do you need to know?

[MameFan]

> Can anybody with a little know how do this??? I know that I have to discharge the monitor before poking around the tube, but how much do you need to know?

The statement "little know how" scares me.  


I won't go into the details of discharging the monitor (other topics here discuss that, search the forum), but will list things you NEED to understand before undertaking this process.

- BASIC electrical knowledge, both DC as well as AC, including switches, transformers and fuses.

- You need to know the difference between a neutral line and a hot line, and which ones are which plug on your outlet

- You need to know how to measure OHM resistance and how to use a multimeter (pocket voltage/resistance tester).  You need to understand the basics of what Ohms are and how they relate.

- You need to know how to discharge the monitor safely, how it accumulates and stores charge and how to handle it safely

- You need to know what can and can't be touched on a monitor / chassis while powered up (basically NOTHING metal and you're pretty safe )

- You need to know what ALL the wires you need to connect do and need to go, lest you plug it in wrong and ruin it (or your self or others or your home)

- You need to know basic mechanics of how to mount the monitor and chassis safely to not ruin either or your game and provide the right support.

- You need to know the weak spots on the tube and what can be "grasped" and what should only be lightly touched (when off).

- You need to be able to follow basic traces on circuit boards and read the etched writing to ensure the pins are compatable.


That's a high level bit of information.  If you don't feel comfortable with this after reading other posts and other web sites about tube swapping (note: Most other sites talk about switching yokes and convergence rings which is a VERY time consuming process to realign the guns--something we're not talking about here), then you need to find someone who is.  A swap of a tube is not worth your life or property, when you can in fact buy a complete tube and chassis from this seller on eBay for about $130+shipping, or an authentic tube+frame+chassis from Happ for $300 ish.

When on, parts of the board have 120 volts at 1 amp running through them other parts up to the tube have up to 25,000 volts on them.... When off, the tube may still have 25,000 volts stored in it if something is wrong and it doesn't auto-discharge.  Definitely nothing to work with if you are not comfortable or know what you are doing.

If you are comfortable and want to undertake this, don't assume or even try to get this done in 30 to 60 minutes.  While I think most of us here that can do it, would finish in about 40 minutes using normal safety measures, plan for a 2-3 hour swap and take things slow, double and triple check, if not sure, ask, and protect yourself when repowering up by covering the monitor / cabinet (if mounted) with heavy cloth just in case something blows up, have a fire extinguisher handy for electrical/wood fires, etc...   No, you probably won't need them, but better be safe than sorry.  

Also without checking with an expert don't believe ANYTHING written unless backed up elsewhere.  Don't even believe what I say, as I am NOT a TV repairman, but just have become a hobbiest that can treat tubes with respect and know enough to be safe.

[dhansen]

Wow mamefan!  I'm on a business trip now but when I get back I'll document this chassis more thoroughly.  Thanks for the GREAT information.  On the electrohome, I can't remember what the ohm reading was but it was within Victors specs for a high impedence monitor...I probably didn't have my meter set correctly (since Victors instructions aren't too clear).  I'll recheck this when I get back.  Since I got the two Wells Gardner monitors working, I assume they're using the correct chassis.  Luckily Victor shows which caps/transistors to change to make it work with the Electrohome.  I would like to get this Electrohome working because it is so bright an colorful with a very small amount of burn-in.  Of course old TV tubes have NO burn in...I'm torn!

DHassen-- does this new chassis bleed the charge out or did you get big pops as you were swapping tubes?  Most (properly working) old chassis (k4600, G07) bled off the charge within a few seconds, and if you waited 1 minute before trying to discharge, the wouldn't be anything to discharge anyway. (But always be safe instead of sorry!)

I don't recall, it seems like there wasn't much of a pop but I could be mistaken.

Dhassen---I noticed in your picture that there are 2 rows of pins next to each other to connect the yoke.  Could you post a close up of the underside of the board (solder side) and show us what it looks like underneath the plugs?  My guess is they cross-wired them so that plugging into one plug produces a normal rotation, and the other swaps all 4 wires for you and gives you a 180 degree rotation.

I'm pretty sure you are correct about this, again, when I get back I'll post some pics of the back side of the board.

And Randy, I've heard of these monitor re-generators but I wasn't sure how they worked.  Thanks to you too!

It's nice to hear from 'real' monitor gurus..I'm just lucky I'm not dead..

Doug

[IG-88]

I plan on creating a message with pictures to help people identify TV tubes that are worth getting vs those that are old and not good to try (you can tell looking closely at the front of the tube with it off).

More to come

[Ken Layton]

Here is some yoke and CRT data for these two arcade monitors for those who want to use the 8liners chassis:

Sharp model XM-2001 (typically used in Nintendo cabinets): CRT is a 510YWB22 (8 pins)
Vertical yoke resistance is 15 ohms

Sanyo model 20-EZ (typically used in Nintendo cabinets): CRT is 510UTB22 (10 pins)
Vertical yoke resistance is 50 ohms

[dhansen]

Holy Crap!  The thread that WON'T DIE!!!  

Kinda cool though...

Doug

Has anyone gotten these to work with a regular TV tube?  Hmmm?  How bout some pics then!?

[Ken Layton]

More data:

Nanao model MS7-20S
Sega # 200-5072

CRT: 510WUB22 (10 pins)

Vert. yoke resistance: 50 ohms

[tom61]

Fine, I'm gonna change the thread title to something that makes since and stickying it.

[Ken Layton]

The Wells-Gardner 19K7603 I just worked on has a 8 pin neck board and the vertical yoke resistance is 13 ohms.

[RetroJames]

MameFan, Ken Layton, and others in the know:

What is the CORRECT way to discharge a monitor and be sure that it is discharged and can be handled etc?  I have read many "shortcuts" involving a screwdriver, but I gotta believe that is not safe.  As Ken is already aware, I have a 25" (slightly burned in) WG form and off road cabinet.  I need to remove the entire monitor from the cabinet to do some sanding and repairs then put the monitor back in.  Also, I need to test it at some point and may need to discharge it afterwards.  I am not a knucklehead by any means, but I am unfamiliar with monitors as well as electronics.  

I am going to post a rear view of the monitor I have for reference, and hope that there is a guru out there who might be able to help.  Thanks in advance, this thread is really good, just hoping to milk it a little more.

[RetroJames]

On the monitor pictured above, the WG 25" K7101, how is the isolation transformer(IT) installed?  If you look in the lower left corner of that pic, there is two wires with a warning label stating, "must have isolation transformer".  I am under the assumption that the IT is hooked up to those wires.  On the other end, does the power cord hook directly up to the IT and then to the wall outlet?

I realize these may be really dumb questions, but this is how we learn and my wife would hate it if I became a crispy critter!

By the way, this is the IT I was going to order from HAPPS:

Isolation Transformer (UL)  

Input 120 volts
Output 120 volts
Output power 120 watts
UL listed

Part Number
 
80-2000-00  

Thanks!

[RetroJames]

Top of the tube

[Ken Layton]

The proper way to discharge a monitor tube for servicing is to use a "high voltage probe" such as B&K Precision's # HV-44A which you can buy from MCM Electronics (www.mcmelectronics.com) as their part number 73-520. Sometimes you can get high voltage probes on ebay. That's where I got mine for only $20. A high voltage probe is about 18 inches long (plastic well insulted housing) with concentric rings (just like a power pole glass insulator), a meter, and a cable with an alligator clip on it. To discharge the monitor first turn the power off and unplug the power cable on the monitor. Connect the probes' alligator clip to the monitor's metal frame ground (make sure it bites the metal real well). Now slide the probes' pointed tip under the suction cup on the picture tube until you feel it touch the metal clip and HOLD IT THERE FOR AT LEAST 30 seconds. You'll see the high voltage meter reading slowly fall to zero and hear the static electricity fade away. Now slide the probe back out from under the suction cup and go do something else for 5 minutes. Slide the probe under the suction cup again and guess what? It built up a small charge all by itself and you need to bleed it off again. Now after all this it should show zero volts on the meter so now it's safe to pop off the suction cup by gently squeezing and twisting a little bit.

OBSERVE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS: You are dealing with 20,000 volts. Always keep one hand in your pocket and not touching/leaning on the metal monitor frame.

As for that Isolation transformer purchase and hookup, that Happ Controls part number is the correct transformer for what you need to operate this monitor. To hook up the monitor you use the black and white wires on the monitor with the warning tag on them. The white connector on the end of that will go to the output side of the isolation transformer. The input side of the isolation transformer goes to your wall outlet. You will need to buy the correct connector to fit the monitors industry standard power connector. You want to buy Molex connector # 19-09-1029 and 2 pins Molex # 02-09-1101. I think you can buy the power cord with connector are ready to go at Wells-Gardner's website under monitor accessories.

[RetroJames]

Awesome info.  Ken you should setup a webcast and give classes in this stuff.  I would buy into it.

Anyway, here are a couple of great links Bob Roberts provided regarding powering up my monitor.  In conjunction with Ken's notes above, all this info is really helping.

http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/basic-ac.gif
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/buildit.html

[Ken Layton]

Bob Roberts has done a wonderful job at explaining things for the average person.  

[RetroJames]

Ken,

What specifications do I need to look for on ebay when shopping for a high voltage probe?

Are they all AC/DC?

The one you mentioned states on the info sheet:  

[Ken Layton]

The high voltage probes you need are for DC volts and you want the ones with the plain old analog meter built into the probe. Some probes only have an output connector to feed to your own DIGITAL volt meter. In most cases the plain analog meter is the best choice because it responds rapidly so you can see at a glance whether you have too high or too low of voltage so that you have time to shut off the monitor right away and prevent damage to the monitor when replacing components. The probe should be able to read a max of 35 to 40 kv for the times a monitor overvolts due to a bad regulator. On ebay here's the links to get to test equipment: "All Categories" -> "Business & Industrial" -> "Test Equipment". Then enter "high voltage probe" in the searchbox on that page.

I used to have a nice HEATHKIT HV probe but some a**hole dropped it on the concrete floor at my former employer and busted it.

[OSCAR]

Okay, I finally got my hands on a free, *compatible* TV to use the 8liners chassis I purchased a while ago...  Figures I buy the chassis first, a 10-pin low impedance chassis, and then all the free TV's I pick up are 8-pin necks!  I wouldn't have it any other way, I guess...  

I called a couple local TV repair shops asking if they had any good 19" tubes from broken TV's, but both places told me that they don't hang on to small tubes like that, they just throw them in the dumpster.  One guy said that he would keep the next couple 19 inchers he gets for me.

This TV is a 20" Zenith with a manufacture date of 1994.  This was literally a 10 minute changeout.  The ground strap on the back of the tube had a 1/4" spade connector on it, and so I put a 1/4" female quick disconnect on the ground wire from the neckboard to connect them together.  That was the only modification I had to make to fit the new chassis.  Everything else was a straightforward swap over.

Below is a pic of the TV tube running an Irem Skins jamma board.  I still need to tweak the colors in, but overall it has a really nice display.  As Victor suggests, this is an extremely cheap way to have an essentially "new" arcade monitor.  Total price: $73 for the chassis shipped, free TV tube.

[RetroJames]

Oscar, where in the heck do you find all the time to work on these projects!!!

[RetroJames]

Did you see what 8liners is charging for refurbs?

 Refurbished, like new, not burns on the    screen, new Chassis:
     25 inches monitor:  $160.00
     19 inches monitor:  $130.00
     13 inches monitor:  $120.00


That is not too shabby.

[OSCAR]

Oscar, where in the heck do you find all the time to work on these projects!!!

You would be amazed at how much you can get done if you only allow yourself 20 minutes of sleep per night...  

[OSCAR]

The TV tube transplant was much easier than I suspected.  I wasn't really sure how I was going to mount this tube since I didn't have a frame for it, but the mounting brackets I robbed out of the TV were perfect for mounting the tube to the cab's monitor board, it made it fit like a glove.  I'm a bit surprised at how easily everything went together...

Since there is no frame, I mounted the chassis directly to the side of the cab.  Using a TV tube with the 8liners chassis for a cab turned out to be an extremely simple installation; and cheap, too!

[RetroJames]

Did you have to adjust anything on that tube when you swapped them out?  Did you need to "align" it?  

[OSCAR]

Nope.  That's one of the neat things about this conversion.  No dinking around with the yoke or the purity rings becuase you don't do anything to the TV tube except put on a new neckboard & chassis.

This is why you need to know how many pins are on the neck and the yoke impedance so you can order a chassis to match what you have.  I did it backwards, naturally, but that is what you would want to do if you know you have a good TV tube.

[RetroJames]

If you would have told me two months ago that I would be interested in and even ordering tools for television (arcade) tube repair, I would have told you that you had gone mad.

Never say never, this stuff is pretty interesting.

[Ken Layton]

Oscar:

Wow! Great picture on that thing. Looks like a nice professional installation, too.   Is that a Dynamo conversion cabinet?

[dhansen]

Finally! Resolve! Great job Oscar!  I was at our local thrift store this weekend (looking for Halloween clothes) and spotted an old 19" TV...hmmm only $10... time to take another stab at it...

Doug

[Ken Layton]

Well, I've ordered an 8 liners chassis from Victor today. It was $73 with the shipping.

I've got a Sharp XM-2001 with a bad flyback (flybacks for this are unavailable having been that way for over 10 years according to Sharp). So when the new chassis gets here I'm gonna pop it in and see how it looks.

[OSCAR]

Thanks, Ken & Doug!  I can see myself using more of these in the future to replace broken monitors, the conversion was so easy.

From what I have found so far with this chassis is that you may a little hit 'n miss with finding a good tube to use with it.

When I first bought the chassis, it was to replace the chassis from a K4600.  However, the pincushion was so terrible, it bowed in by about an 1" on each side, that it wasn't really usable.  I also had trouble getting good colors on the K4600 tube, too.  So I fixed the 4600 chassis and put it back on the tube, the colors are bright and sharp like I couldn't get with this replacement chassis.  This made me a little sour on the 8liners chassis at first since all I had to test with it at the time were 4600 tubes.

Now with this Zenith tv, it is much better.  The display is nearly indistinguishable from one of my K4900 or GO7's.  What would make the 8liners chassis much more appealing would be a pincushion control, and I believe it would help it be compatible with a larger amount of tubes.


Ken - Yes, it's a Dynamo cab.  I have more pics of it at http://www.oscarcontrols.com/guerrilla.  The vinyl-like surface finish was peeled off the speaker board, so I still need to touch that up.

[Ken Layton]

Sounds like your cabinet has vending machine vinyl on it.

[OSCAR]

No, it's more like a heavy latex paint.  It's not like vending vinyl at all, but rather like some kind of flexible melamine finish.

[delta88]

free tube?  did I say it was free? just wait till you get my bill in the mail.. thats a very rare 10 pin.. it was ownedby famous people.. well it had famous people on it

[OSCAR]

Free...  in exchange for getting your 2.25" trackball working, new encoder wheels on your kick t'ball, *giving* you that 25" monitor....  

[OSCAR]

Here's a couple pics of the Zenith tv w/ 8liners chassis in the cab.  The dark band that shows up in the photos is the camera picking up the monitor refresh.  My camera must be sensitive to the oddball 57Hz refresh rate of the Heavy Barrell board as the band isn't visible with your eye.

The Zenith tv tube w/ an 8liners chassis is proving to be a very nice combo so far.  I'm happy with it.  

[Ken Layton]

Gee.....that looks great!   I think the 8liners chassis I ordered will arrive tomorrow (Friday).

[OSCAR]

MonitorGuru - My chassis doesn't seem to hold a charge like yours does.  After I had the power off for an hour or two, I discharged the tube to remove the chassis and there was a barely audible crackle, and no residual zaps either.  I did this a number of times swapping the chassis with other tubes with the same results.  I certainly never got a huge zap like you describe.  Granted that my GO7 & K4600's seem to discharge themselves rather quickly in comparison to the 8liners chassis, but I didn't find it too much different.

If you read some of my previous posts, you'll see I came to pretty much the same conclusion about the K4600 tubes - they are basically unusable with this chassis.

One other thing about this chassis is that it is so quiet.  You know how you can walk into a room and know a TV is on even if the sound is off because you can hear the high voltage whine?  That is almost inaudible with this chassis, especially compared to my GO7 which drowns out the 5 other tubes in the room.  

[MonitorGuru]

Oscar --

Do you have a couple megs of storage (and bandwidth) to host some of the pics?  I tried to take pics of every step of the process (overkill right now) but also of all the tubes with rather close up shots showing differences/similarities when I swapped the tubes in the K4600 and the 8liners.  I could zip em up for you if you had some space to post. They're not huge, but definitely too big to post all in this thread.. We're talking 5 pics per tube per chassis, all about 80k each.. that's 50 pics or ~4 meg worth?


As far as the quietness.. one of the tubes/yokes actually had a resonance that was quite audible. As I adjusted brightness it got quite a bit louder than a G07 or K4600. It seemed to be comming actually out of one of the (iso/switchmode?) transformers on the chassis board and not from the yoke or flyback area.  None of the other tubes/yokes caused that problem.


I actually have an acute ear for the 15.75 Khz cycle. I can be 50 feet in front of someones house and if they have an open door or window I can say with certainty that they have a 19" or larger TV running, and then I look and sure enough they do.  The dog ears I have unfortunately are bad when working on monitors like this. At least I know if the horizontal scan is working without even a picture! LOL

[OSCAR]

Sure, email them to me at info@ oscarcontrols.com, and I'll post links to them.  

...Or better yet, I'll PM you the links and you can post them describing what they are pics of.  

[Nailz]

Did you see what 8liners is charging for refurbs?

 Refurbished, like new, not burns on the    screen, new Chassis:
     25 inches monitor:  $160.00
     19 inches monitor:  $130.00
     13 inches monitor:  $120.00


That is not too shabby.

So has anyone done this?  I am interested as I don't really want to put my hands in an old TV.  If anyone has, is this basically like buying an arcade monitor as in the last thing I would have to do is hack a VGA cable and get an ArcadeVGA card?

Thanks

[Ken Layton]

It would be like a regular arcade monitor.

[Nailz]

Ok, I am a bit confused now, I basically asked the same question to Vic at 8liners and this was his response.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Marty,

  You need a VGA monitor not a CGA.....Mame needs VGA and my monitors
are for arcades games, the standard used in arcades games.

  Vic
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So would an ArcadeVGA NOT work with one of his monitors, or is he just not aware that the ArcadeVGA will work with an Arcade monitor?

Thanks again,

Marty

[tom61]

So would an ArcadeVGA NOT work with one of his monitors, or is he just not aware that the ArcadeVGA will work with an Arcade monitor?

He's just not aware that the ArcadeVGA can connect to arcade monitors. The ArcadeVGA isn't exactly mainstream hardware, so most people don't know about it. I think at least one person here has used an 8liner's chassis with the ArcadeVGA.

[dhansen]

I think at least one person here has used an 8liner's chassis with the ArcadeVGA.

I've used an ArcadeVGA with an 8-liners chassis...works great!

Doug

[Ken Layton]

My 8liners chassis has arrived! Might be able to get around to trying it tonight. Will let everyone know how it works out.

[Nailz]

One last question on the 8liners refurbished monitors, do they have isolation transformers on them, or would I need to get one?

Thanks for the help.

[OSCAR]

Isolation transformers are not required with the 8liners chassis.  If your cab already is wired for it, though, it is okay to use it.

[thetered]

This maybe a stupid question but the 19in seems fairly simple to swap out, but has anyone one done the 25in? is it basically the same thing just bigger screen?  Cause i'm trying to descide between buying just the chasis or going ahead and buying one of their refurbished montiors.

[Ken Layton]

Whether you have a 19" or 25" tube the chassis installs in the same manner.

[Ken Layton]

Success! It works! Here's my review of the 8 liners replacement monitor chassis:

The chassis arrived in about 8 days via UPS ground. The box had nice braces inside to protect the circuit board. Packed with it are video input cable & connector and yoke connector & cable. I did not receive the single pin neckboard ground connector and wire, but I just made one from a spare Molex .093 female pin I had in the parts cabinet. The chassis is well laid out and very clean (no solder fluxes remaining on the foil side). It does not need an isolation transformer.

This replacement chassis is in reality made by Jen Shinn Electronic (www.jenshinn.com.tw) and is their model 220 LS (Low impedance, 8-pin neck). The monitor I have is a Sharp model XM-2001N (commercial arcade style) that had a blown flyback transformer which is no longer available. The picture tube is a Sharp 510YWB22 (8-pin) and the vertical yoke resistance is 15 ohms (low impedance). The black plastic circuit board holder is EXACTLY the same as the Eygo/Huai/Wei-Ya circuit boards and even has the mounting holes in the same places.

The circuit board has an odd (in the USA) 5 pin video input connector on it and it comes with a regular two wire power cord terminated in a regular household power plug which you can plug into a regular wall outlet. Well, here's where I made a few improvements.....first thing I did was unsolder that phony video connector and guess what? Underneath it was an extra set of holes for a normal 6 pin video connector that all commercial video game use. I had one of these in my parts cabinet (Amp # 640445-6 or Mouser # 571-6404456). I also chopped off the power plug and replaced it with the normal polarized Molex connector that all video game monitors use. That is Molex part number 19-09-2029 (housing) and 02-09-2101 (.093 male pins). This now makes this chassis compatible with all Jamma harnessed games and monitor test equipment. Oh, and did I mention this chassis uses composite negative sync (which is Jamma standard).

The swap out was easy and took about 30 minutes mainly because I had to solder on a new yoke cable as the original Sharp one had different connectors. The chassis has plenty of adjustment pots on it. I powered it up and the picture looked good! The only adjustments I had to make were to focus and vertical size/position. Color and brightness were already good to go right out of the box! I did not experience any pincushion problems and the picture was straight.

All in all I give this chassis two big thumbs up! I can see me ordering more of these in the future to repair monitors with missing chassis boards or ones with flybacks that are no longer available (like Sharp XM-2001N and Wells-Gardner 4900 series). Bottom line is it fixed a non-working monitor I had laying around so now I have a fully functioning spare ready-to-go.

[thetered]

I have a either a 26 or 27in tube that I was giving, I dont have my cab for it yet, but my question is should i beable to still fit this in a 25in cab? Also I've been reading the 8liners chasis page and it says measure the ohm on the neck but doesnt actually say how, where to I get this reading from?

[Ken Layton]

You need to measure the resistance of the vertical circuit winding of the yoke. The yoke is mounted on the neck of the picture tube and has 4 wires coming out of it terminating in a connector. The 4 wires are usually colored red, blue, green and yellow. If the tube you were given does not have a yoke on it you're screwed.  

[thetered]

    Hey i'm not trying to sound dumb here but I dont see where to connect to, My tube is complete with all the wires and stuff and copper spun wire.  But I dont see test points or anything.  I included a picture I found from further up on the post with two arrow to points on the neck are these the things i sould be testing from, cuase Mine doesnt have anything like that on it.

[OSCAR]

Hey Ken,

Nice find on the alternate locations for a standard video input header on the chassis!  I made an adapter for mine, but when I pick up more of these chassis, I will replace the header like you did.  I also cut off the AC plug on mine and replaced it with a standard 2-pin Molex connector.  These chassis are pretty nice, aren't they?  A great solution, especially for those that really don't want to dink around fixing a 20+ year old one.  I have a particular K4600 chassis that is really testing my patience.  Every time I replace something on it, another part fails...  If this chassis was compatible with a 4600 tube, I would replace it immediately.  With your techincal experience, any chance that you could suggest a circuit or modification to the chassis that would allow a pincushion adjustment for it?  IMO, that would make these absolutely perfect!  BTW, if you have any pics of your tube/chassis that you would like to post, just email them to me and I'll put them up.  MonitorGuru hasn't sent me his yet (hint, hint), and I would be happy to host them.


thetered - Look on the underside of the yoke.  You should see similar looking lugs on it that have 4 different colored wires on it, most likely red/blue/yellow/green, all going to a single connector plugged into the chassis.

[Ken Layton]

Oscar:

If you look next to the yoke connector on the Jen Shinn chassis you'll see a silkscreened box drawn on the board with two jumper wires. This looks suspiciously like a spot where a side pincushion transformer goes!

I only have a regular 35mm film camera and haven't taken pictures of the chassis yet.

[Macros]

Hi,

I just put one of these in a Hantarex MTC9000 that had a failed flyback and a cooked resister. When I was looking around at new flybacks they were around $40. So, I decided for $65 to try a new chassis considering the vertical impedance of the yoke was okay at 13-14 ohm. It was pretty easy to install though I had to make new a new yoke cable and a new rgb cable. I still haven't hooked up the degaussing coil since the old connector isn't compatible and there isn't one included. I'm not about to solder directly to the chassis as that would be a major hack. The results are okay, it's very sharp no focus problems but I have a bit of pincushion that is worse on the left side of the screen. The right is almost perfect.

One question, I hacked the included power cord and hooked up a molex connector so I could run it off my iso transformer. Does polarity matter that much in this case? I don't think the powersupply cares because it's a switching power supply. The supplied power cord didn't have a white stripe nor did it have polarized prongs on the end. I looked on the chassis where the ac lines connect and I see and 'n' silk screened on the board. I'm hopeing this is for neutral?

Another question, does anyone notice a lot of blooming especially on fade-ins from a black screen? The picture will temporarily get bright and bloom then returns to normal. I see this a lot when I first load a game in mame and the resolution changes. Could this be related to using my iso transformer? I read a steady 125 vac from it. I might hack it again and put the normal two prong connector back on and see if that helps at all.

Macros
 

[Macros]

Doh, figured out he polarity thing one of the wires is smooth "hot" the other is ribbed "neutral", I had it right anyway by looking at the chassis. It still blooms with or without using the iso transformer. Usually this is an indication of a cheaper power supply.  

The colours looked good out of the box but something was a miss. First I thought there was too much red so I turned down the red bias but that didn't really help. I ended up using the street fighter test mode and the colour bar test which indicated that blue and green where lacking on the lower end of the ire scale. I used the drive controls on the neck board for blue and green to match the output of the red. Basically, 2 bars were missing on both green and blue on the darker end of the scale. Finally, things look like they should and there is increased detail in darker scenes most notable in Mortal Kombat II.

Macros

[OSCAR]

Hmm, interesting...  On my setup, I found that the Green was more prominent over the other colors, and I had to turn up the Red & Blue to get a more balanced picture.  I haven't noticed any blooming with the chassis/tube I'm using, but it was a bit tricky to get the focus/brightness set up for a good picture.  I'd bet that every chassis/tube combo will result in different adjustments required to dial in a good pic.  Luckily, the chassis has tons of adjustment!


Ken - Yes, I see that on the board.  And now my question is if you have any suggestions for what to use for a pincushion transformer, or maybe even some Mouser/Digi-Key part no's of ones to try?  I don't need one for my current setup, but it would be a nice option for possible future chassis/tube combinations.

[MonitorGuru]

Oscar --  Yep, I know I've been slow. I've got tons of good pics too.  I just havn't had free time from life's other projects to hack up some HTML describing each pic in a series for ease in understanding.

I will do my best to get at them sometime this week and zip them up and send em to you.

The "blooming" issue is one I am sorta seeing and calling a 'focus'-like softness issue.  Yes, per my experience with TV's, this is a sure sign of a lower quality power supply. Mine seems to bloom on all the tubes perpetually (except the original RCA out of the K4600) , not just a one-time bloom when switching between dark and light.

Perhaps the on board switch-mode isolated power supply is the achilies heal of this beast?

I'll get those pics done and described and (I hope) they show the difference between this chassis and a 4600 in that sharpness/blooming issue on the same tubes.

[MonitorGuru]

I have the pictures, thumbnails and text done regarding the 5 tube/2 chassis tube swap-a-thon I documented and mentioned above.  I am in contact with Oscar to get it placed on his site, as it's 5+ meg in size and I'm sure BYOAC could not host it due to the size.

Will let you know as soon as it's up.   I'd like for others to contribute similarily so that we can see what works best with this (or other) chassis and if I've done any setup incorrect/etc..

[MonitorGuru]

*************************************

Pictures are up!  Comparison of 8Liners chassis and a Wells-Gardner K46xx Chassis with 5 different picture tubes (4 scavenged from 1980's era Televisions)

These pictures are to accompany the lengthy review post I made on Page 2 of this thread a few weeks ago (and posted to Usenet).

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/chassis

Thanks MUCH to Oscar for hosting the page/pictures.

*************************************

[Macros]

Hi,

Does anyone know the pinout of the 8liners chassis? It's not printed on the solder side of the neckboard like most I've seen. The reason I ask is I think maybe my tube isn't compatible with the chassis and is causing a brightness problem. I'm thinking maybe the G1 pin isn't correct. I have a 10 pin orion tube.

I'm using advmenu with a white background and grey border. As I scroll through my gamelist the intensity of the white and grey change dependant on the brightness of the in game screen shot. For example, if asteroids is selected they are both bright. If I select a game with bright colours they both noticeably dim to the point that the grey border almost turns black. The other weird thing is that white will take on a blue tint if there is a lot of red in the game and likewise there's a red tint with a predominantely blue screenshot.  

My flyback makes a low 15Khz hum noise perhaps it's defective? The other thing I see is a vertical squiggle on the left hand side of the screen. I've actually seen this before on a mac monitor and it was fixed by tieing in the Shell ground of the rgb cable to the ground on the monitor. This hasn't helped on my arcade monitor. It kind of looks like a visible sync pulse, perhaps I have to make a composite sync circuit instead of twisting the H and V sync wires together.

I think I'm going to order a new flyback from Bob Roberts and fix the MTC9000 chassis, maybe I'll find a more compatible donor tube in the future.

Macros.

 

[thetered]

I have a Sanyo EZ20 that I think i fried the chasis on cause i didnt know it was a 100 Volt system, anyways the tube is still great in it, would an 8liners chasis work on it, I only question the possibility do to the fact that the origional chasis is 100volts, but I dont think that would affect the tube would it?

As anyone tried these chasis's on one yet?

[MonitorGuru]

> Does anyone know the pinout of the 8liners chassis? It's not printed on the solder side of the neckboard like most I've seen. The reason I ask is I think maybe my tube isn't compatible with the chassis and is causing a brightness problem. I'm thinking maybe the G1 pin isn't correct. I have a 10 pin orion tube.

I believe there are only 2 common pinouts used, and it's based on the # of exposed pins on the tube.  Can you give me your tube model # and I'll look up your pinouts in a Sencore reference manual. I'm pretty sure it'll be the same as my 2 Orion tubes shown in the pictures above that Oscar hosted.


> I'm using advmenu with a white background and grey border. As I scroll through my gamelist the intensity of the white and grey change dependant on the brightness of the in game screen shot.

This is more evidence of a weak power supply. Most consumer TV sets have this problem (especially when the contrast control is set at 100% aka "showroom display")  The brighter the picture, the more blooming it has and straight vertial lines end up pincushioning outward, especially at the bottom half of the display.

Edit: Also, is it possible you're overdriving the input lines from the PC video card? I assume you must be using some type of amplification to the signal right? (Since PC outputs at 0-.75 volts, where arcade monitors are 1-5 volts.) I havn't worked with PC->arcade monitor conversions.. only have worked with arcade boards outputting the correct levels.


> My flyback makes a low 15Khz hum noise perhaps it's defective? The other thing I see is a vertical squiggle on the left hand side of the screen

If you read my text review (posted earlier in this thread), one of the 2 orion tubes I tried caused the isolation switch-mode transformer to vibrate (more as i turned the screen/guns up in power). The other orion tube did not cause this.  Was it actually the flyback or just the iso xformer?




> I have a Sanyo EZ20...

I have a Nintendo Playchoice 10 with 2 Sanyo 20EZ's.  IIRC, the ohm resistance on the yokes are around 15ohms (13.9 or so?) and would be good candidates for this chassis.  The tubes should have a 510xxxxx designation on their model # if original.  Send me the actual # and I'll verify the pinouts/power in Sencore reference for you.

Yes, even though the chassis was 100 volts, the tubes are not required to only work with those chassis. I know a few tube swappers on the newsgroups have swapped in standard US Zenith tubes into Nintendo chassis without problems.

[Macros]

Hi,

I believe there are only 2 common pinouts used, and it's based on the # of exposed pins on the tube.  Can you give me your tube model # and I'll look up your pinouts in a Sencore reference manual. I'm pretty sure it'll be the same as my 2 Orion tubes shown in the pictures above that Oscar hosted.

I believe this is the model # A48JRV90X12. I believe the 90 is the  degrees of deflection. There is another longer number on the label but I think that might be the serial#. The vertical yoke measured 13ohms and the horizontal was 2 ohms.  

Edit: Also, is it possible you're overdriving the input lines from the PC video card? I assume you must be using some type of amplification to the signal right? (Since PC outputs at 0-.75 volts, where arcade monitors are 1-5 volts.) I havn't worked with PC->arcade monitor conversions.. only have worked with arcade boards outputting the correct levels.

I'm sure not overdriving the input lines since I'm not using any form of amplification of the pc's output. This hasn't been a problem for me using Pentranic, Hantarex or my old electrohome G07. I know certain monitors like a hotter signal, but I figured a newer chassis like this would take the straight pc output. I did turn up the screen pot slightly not much though, to get a decent picture. Anybody else use this chassis with a mame cabinet? I know Oscar is using a real Jamma PCB so it's getting the hotter signal.

If you read my text review (posted earlier in this thread), one of the 2 orion tubes I tried caused the isolation switch-mode transformer to vibrate (more as i turned the screen/guns up in power). The other orion tube did not cause this.  Was it actually the flyback or just the iso xformer?

I'm not using the iso xformer at this point, it's plugged straight into a powerbar. I'm pretty sure it's the flyback, it's not real loud I can only hear it if I'm behind my cabinet and the door is off. It's a low frequency 15kHz noise, unlike the high pitch noise my Hantarex used to make before it died.

Macros

[tom61]

I'm not using the iso xformer at this point

The 8liner's chassis has one built in, so, yes you are.

[Macros]

Tom61:

I guess I thought he was talking about an external iso transformer not the one on the chassis. After listening more closely it appears the noise is indeed coming from the onboard transformer situated just behind the flyback. It's pretty dinky compared to the one on the floor of my cabinet, maybe it's possible to bypass it and feed the output from the external iso straight to the DC rectifier? I'm not going to try it, but someone with more knowledge is welcome to experiment. Maybe we can figure out the weak link in this chassis.

Macros

[MonitorGuru]

> I believe this is the model # A48JRV90X12.

I could not find this exact model.  Did the other number start with a "510" designation? If it does I could look up that way.  I did look up 2 closest matching model #s: A48JRV20 and A48JRV70 (similar not identical). They have the exact same pinouts as all other tubes I've seen in arcade games.

Filament Voltage: 6.3v
CRT Bias: 116V/68V
F1: 9
F2: 10
RK: 8
GK: 6
BK: 11
G1: 5
G2: 7

KVoltage: 100
Anode 25KV
Focus 7000V


> I'm sure not overdriving the input lines since I'm not using any form of amplification of the pc's output. This hasn't been a problem for me using Pentranic, Hantarex or my old electrohome G07.


Aha.. As I said in my previous post, unless you're using a specific video card meant to output arcade level signals, the most a PC will output is ~.75 volts on each of the RGB lines.  An arcade monitor typically assigns Black 0-1 volts and full onm at 4-5 volts.  Therefore you are barely sending enough signal to even get above "black".  By turning up the screen and or drive controls you are, in effect, amplifying the signal, but doing so MUCH later in the circuit (just before it gets to the gun/screen grid), after it's done preliminary processing.   Therefore I would expect that you'd be seeing the strange pulsing since you're drawing a lot of power to increase the signal once on board, rather than before the board.

I'd look into something to amplify the signal to the level the monitor expect before it gets to the board.


>I'm not using the iso xformer at this point, it's plugged straight into a powerbar.

The 8liners chassis does include an iso transformer directly on board. But it's not a big heavy one like you're used to seeing. The power supply circuit is similar to that of a "switch mode" PC power supply (just a lot simpler, and obiously not as stable). There is a mini transformer on the board, up and to the left center when looking at the board with the flyback in the lower right.  It was that which was vibrarting on one Orion tube I had (power issue?).  If your flyback is vibrating it may have a cracked core (the iron core vibrates as the power oscilates in it).

[MonitorGuru]

>I guess I thought he was talking about an external iso transformer not the one on the chassis. After listening more closely it appears the noise is indeed coming from the onboard transformer situated just behind the flyback. It's pretty dinky compared to the one on the floor of my cabinet, maybe it's possible to bypass it and feed the output from the external iso straight to the DC rectifier?

NOPE.  That won't work (at least without some more modifications).  You see, a "switch mode" power supply is one in which large huge 1:1 transformers are replaced by tiny ones and the frequency of the wave is modified such that it can be passed through a much smaller transformer, then remodified on the other side.  (Search for Sci.Electronics.FAQ about SwitchMode supplies if you want to know how they work)

Like I said this is what I noticed on mine with ONE orion tube, but not the other.  It lessened when I drove the screen grid and drives less.  Going back to my previous post (which just got posted so you havn't even had a chance to read yet), if you've pushed the screen and drive controls to amplify the low voltage PC video card output, that's why the transformer is buzzing so much. You're forcing it to do a LOT of amplification and since it appears the supply is kinda weak, it is pulling more current through it than it should.

Try sending the correct arcade level VGA signal power to the tube, turn down the screen and drives and it should help, and help improve the picture and stop the bad pulsing between light and dark since there will then be more "headroom" on the power supply since it wont be running at max.

[Macros]

I could not find this exact model.  Did the other number start with a "510" designation?

Here it is R510CK1AY1A-TC12.

I just ordered a couple of RGB video amplifiers from Ultimarc, hopefully that will help. They increase the voltage to normal jamma pcb standards. This is the first  arcade monitor chassis I've used that has it's own iso transformer. I'm not so sure it's a good thing especially when the manufacturer is selling them cheap. They are obviously cutting costs somewhere.  

Macros

[MonitorGuru]

Wow.  You've got me (actually Sencore) stumped on that tube.  I could not find that exact number and found a much different one that had separate grid pins for each gun (not shared like all others).  However everything else was so different, the chassis would have blown up if you tried that tube with  it, so I wont even both posting it as it couldn't be the correct tube. (fwiw: closest model match was "510CKB22")

Yes, I think upping it to the correct range (without pre-overdriving) should help your problems.

[Nerd Of Nerds]

hmmm, i decided i wanted to get one of these chassis, so i got an oldish (80's) tv and it has 9 pins   it was from a zenith tv. does it cound 8 if you don't count the pin in the little triangle shaped part of the neckboard? (the connector)

and it doesn't have the ground wire wrapped around it it just has some L shaped thing on one of the brackets, i believe that this was connected to the ground on the neckboard, can someone explain this? ( i would post pics if i had webspace... ) its 19"

[MonitorGuru]

What's the model # of the PICTURE tube (sticker directly on side of the tube). Should contain an "19" or "48" or "51" in the number towards the beginning to help you locate it.  I can look up the pinouts and determine if it's compatable. Perhaps one pin was redundant and not needed.  There normally should be 8 or 10 including the focus grid pin surrounded by the triangular plastic however.

As far as the ground, look closely, there may have been a spring strung across the bottom or diagonally on the tube from corner to corner of those L-brackets.   The new chassis will come with a new ground strap. So long as the aquadag (black graphite paint) is still on the outside of the tube then it should work as far as that goes.

However, post the model # of the tube and I'll doublecheck the pinouts for you.

[Nerd Of Nerds]

well, it doesn't have l shaped brackets, (it has normal brackets) it has on one of the brackets (just one) a thing with some connectors that is making contact with the black stuff, i think it was connected to the cround... is all that it has to do: touch the black stuff and be grounded? and if so could you explain the purpose? and, does the chassis come with a replacement grounding cable? (i had to have someone cut it becuase i was about to drop the crt )

[MonitorGuru]

Yes, the ground wire from the neckboard only has to touch a relatively small amount of aquadag (black conductive graphite paint) on the outside of the tube to work.  The inside of the tube (inside the vacuum) is also coated with it, and is attached to the anode wire under the grey cap.  The glass between the two, with a charge supplied, makes a HUGE capacitor.   Considering the size of contact of the anode wire (at most, 1 centimeter x 1 milimeter in contact), the ground wire or spring typically touches about 30 centimeters by 1-5 millimeters on a typical tube setup.

So yes, it likely could be a single or couple small connectors touching it would be enough. (The more the better, especially once it gets dirty and moved it could lessen connection (resulting in snapping picture, or crackling sounds or of course no picture)).

Yes, the 8liners chassis comes with a replacement grounding cable (though one poster said it was missing in their box, I definitely received one, and I know it's pictured on Victor's site).

[Nerd Of Nerds]

ok, well, i have never measured the ohm of something before... and i got a digital multimeter and (i certainly hope i did this right...) i youched on wire to the red and the other to the black (on the multimeter) and it game me a rating of 9.6 ohms and it is a 19" tube... i checked the other set of wires it gave me something like 2ohms i thought a small tube was supposed to have higher ohms or did i not measure it right? sorry, i make it seem like a am a total retard   but i do know how to install a chassis

[MonitorGuru]

Typically, Yellow+Green = Vertical, Red+Blue = Horizontal deflection.

Yellow+Green (Vert) will be in one of the following ranges on a 19" tube:
8 - 16 ohms LOW impedence
50 - 60 ohms HIGH impedence

Red+Blue (Horiz) will be between  2 and 3.5 ohms on nearly every yoke.

The size of the tube does not necessarily reflect the resistance used in the yoke, but in general, the resistance is LOWER the larger the tube (you need more electricity to flow through the yoke to bend the beam farther on a larger tube, so the yoke has to have less resistance to allow more electrons to flow).  A tiny 5" CRT like in portable battery operated TV's likely has very high resistance on the vertical winding, though I've never measured one.


You will note however, if you look at the pictures of the tubes I tested in the 8liners chassis.. TV's sometimes used seeimingly random colors of wires for their yokes, I've seen all combinations, thus why you may have seen red+black = vertical, but always triple check before connecting to not fry the yoke or chassis.

[Ken Layton]

Check out the new 8 liners replacements (seller: "video1963") on ebay auction item numbers 6100101916 (W-G k7000 replacement, low impedance) and [urlhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6100063535]6100063535[/url] (Electrohome G07, high impedance).

These are much better since they are manufactured by Weiya/Huai I Electronics/Eygo. They REQUIRE an isolation transformer.

Check out the specs at:

www.weiya.com.tw/monitor/p13.htm (for the 1220 series)

www.weiya.com.tw/monitor/p12.htm (for the 820 series)


Edit by moderator: made some of your info clicky for the lazy.

[MonitorGuru]

These look strikingly similar to the 8 liners chassis from Genao/Victor. Actually if you look on both auctions there appears to be a standard AC line cord and what appears to be a mini isolation transformer on board, just like Victors. Perhaps the translation was messed up in the box labelling he's copying?

Are these really any different? They appear to have the same labelling on the controls and the same dual yoke connector (to rotate 180 degrees). But they may just use the same design and have slightly different components.

I was hoping the low impedence version was $55 like the high one (since most every TV set tube I've stashed are low impedence) but see he's charging $10 more for the low impedence version.

Wonder if he will start carrying 25" ones.

Thanks for the info. I saw the Electohome replacements for a few months but didnt know he started selling the others.

[Ken Layton]

These are much better than the Jen Shinn chassis sold by 8liners. While they may look similar to the Jen Shinn/8liners chassis, these Weiya/Huai I Electronic/Eygo chassis are much better and these particular models require the use of an isolation transformer (which should already be in your game cabinet anyway). It's odd that Weiya puts on a regular power cord with a standard wall plug on the end, but DON'T PLUG THIS MONITOR INTO A WALL OUTLET OR IT WILL BE DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY! When Eygo was in business (they were the USA importer of the Weiya/Huai I Electronics chassis) they cut off the ewnd of the power cord an installed the familiar 2 pin Molex connector that most video game cabinets use to connect to the isolation transformer.

My experiences with the Weiya/Huai I Electronics/Eygo chassis & monitors have been that they produce an excellent picture, been very reliable, and are easy to repair. I have not seen any with flyback failure. I give it thumbs up!

[MonitorGuru]

So it may be worth picking up one of these and redoing my 6-tube-swap-a-thon on it and post the results ?  

Wonder if he has 25" ones as well?  I've been considering picking up a 25" one from Victor (after the reports of the better control on then over the 13-19 versions)..  Was Victor's 25 a JS as well? (I think so)

[SoundDoc]

I now come across this thread... Incredible information guys. I just finished (well almost finished) a crt/chassis swap/rebuild on a 25" K7191.
If I had come across this thread before, I would have most likely just gone with a replacement chassis for the tubes I have around, and saved the trouble with repairing mine and redoing the convergence/purity (due to swapping the yoke).

This thread should almost have a sticky, or a site of its own!
I was aware of the 8liners site, and the replacement Chassis, but I didn't know they had a 25 and larger chassis until now.

Are there any sites that sell the Weiya/Huai I Electronics/Eygo chassis rather than trying to find them on e-bay?

SoundDoctor

[Ken Layton]

I think the 8liners 25" and larger is a Jen Shinn monitor, but one of the better models.

As to anyone else selling the Weiya/Huai I Electronics in the USA, it was Eygo that imported them here. I'd say check with ebay seller video1963 to see if he has more or can get more.

[rchadd]

FYI 8 liners chassis (up to 21" tube) on ebay - buy now $70

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=6100030941

[IG-88]

Just thought some of this info might be helpful to some of the newbies around here. Besides this thread just won't die.

[timofonic]

Hello.

Sorry a lot for bumping and old post, but I found this quite interesting.

Any news about this kind of boards? Any chassis (aka the electronic board that converts the high voltage signals and such) supports 15/24/31khz? It could be quite interesting for arcade systems that output these kind or frequencies.

Regards.

[Ken Layton]

NO.

These replacement chassis boards are for standard resolution monitors only.

[Ken Layton]

Anyone ever get schematics for the Jen Shinn (8liners) chassis?

[nipsmg]

I have one of these for a 27" that I never used.  It's in a box.  It's perfect.

If anyone wants it I'll get rid of it for $60 + shipping, just send me a PM.  I'm never going to use it.

[TheManuel]

Is it a JenShinn Specifically or a Wei-Ya?

[dhansen]

Holy Crap!  An seven year long thread!! Whoot!  Was just looking back on some info on these replacement chassis since I was in need of one again low these many years later.

[IG-88]

See! It will never die!! 

The Arcade Repair Tips guys have talked about these a few times. People using TV's they have picked up at garage sales and Goodwill ect and having good luck.

[Ken Layton]

Just remember, 8liners.com no longer sells the Jen Shinn replacement chassis. All they stock now is the Wei-ya. Alva Amusement sells the Wei-ya also and at much cheaper prices than 8liners.com

[IG-88]

Hey Ken, whats your opinion on the Wei-ya vs. the Jen Shinn? Is one better than the other?

[Ken Layton]

I like them both. The Wei-ya is more widely available than the Jen Shinn here in the USA. Remember, both brands will need to be "Americanized" to be plug n play with most arcade cabinets.

[RejectedManiac]

When I get my income tax I will be ordering 1 of these for my KI machine. Has bad screen burn and have had nothing but problems with this hantarex polo chassis. Sent it at least 4 times for repairs and the last time ended up cracking in the mail. But get this... I can't find any 25" tv's.... By the way I remember a while back Victor told me not to get Sony and something else I think. Can't remember why tho.

[Ken Layton]

Sony Trinitron picture tubes and circuitry are special.

[RejectedManiac]

Special in their own way

[Dragonman73]

Just remember, 8liners.com no longer sells the Jen Shinn replacement chassis. All they stock now is the Wei-ya. Alva Amusement sells the Wei-ya also and at much cheaper prices than 8liners.com

Will Alva amusement work with me on picking out the correct chassis? Or is that something I need to do myself before calling them?

The specs confuse the crap out of me so I'm not sure what to look for. I measured out 8 ohms on the vertical deflection, 10 pin neck board connector, and the model number on the tube is A68 xxxxx which equals a 27" tube.

Looks like on thier site they are showing monitors in the size of 25", 28", and 29" but no 27"  http://www.alvaamusement.com/id5.html

[Ken Layton]

The 826H is for 27" tubes.

[Dragonman73]

The 826H is for 27" tubes.

cool, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I really want to use my 27" screen at this point, just paid a guy for a 27" arcade monitor frame to put this in to...so I'm getting pretty excited.

 This will be going in an old 4-player run and gun (simpsons) cabinet that I'm going to relaminate with black formica. I'm also going to use the old control panel box as a template and build a 2-player box with two, eight way joysticks, one four way joystick, and a track ball. Anything smaller screen size is going to look out of place.

I got a reply back from Victor about his chassis, he told me initially at first that his chassis may or may not work with my 27" screen. I questioned the information on his website that said it would...his reply back was that the website info was wrong, but someone else used his chassis in a 27" and it worked fine??  Maybe alva will have a better price on thier chassis.

Thanks again for your help

[Ken Layton]

Alva's prices are cheaper than 8liners.com

[Dragonman73]

you weren't kidding,the chassis + shipping would have been $89.75 shipped versus the $125 I was quoted at 8liners. 

I went ahead and ordered a isolation transformer with this as well...so the total was right at $105...should ship tomorrow 

Thanks for your help

[LionSri]

ok i`m from the uk and just wondering if i would need to use an isolation transformer from 240v to 120v to get the chassis to power up or are they dual voltage input , also if i do need to use a transformer what typicaly is the minimum wattage of step down transformer i can use

[dhansen]

Wow, I'm rusty.  Anybody (Ken) know where these wires go to on the 8-liners chassis? I'm replacing a board on a monitor I got from Arcade Amusements a while back... Here are the pics:
Thanks for your help!!

[Ken Layton]

In picture #2, the black wire goes to FG (frame ground). The connector with the red & white wires appears to be the degaussing coil. It plugs in next to the frame ground connector.

[dhansen]

Thanks Ken!  Worked like a charm... You are the master!

[Dragonman73]

Got my monitor chassis and isolation transformer in last friday, along with my used 27" arcade monitor frame from arcade boneyard. I'll post my step by step in another thread, mostly because there is very little information about this subject on this site, especially with detailed pictures.

I'm 125% positive I'm going to have a few questions so everyone be ready 

[dph84b]

First of all, great 8 year post!

I want to run a mame computer with an arcadevga video card, and have it drive one of the replacement chassis hooked up to a 25" tube.

I am experienced and educated in electronics, though not extensively with tv tubes.  although i have taken apart and discharged them successfully before.

Questions:
1) which site is currently the forerunner for selling these replacement chassis, if i want to ignore jamma compatability altogether, and highly prioritize operation and picture quality.  (My tube is an RCA brand if that makes any difference)

2) why am i having issues reading the original posts by the user called MAMEFan?  some of the information i really need seems to be cut off in his posts... not sure whats going on there.

3) are there still little problems like "blooming" and "pincushioning" with some of these newer chassis?  Which has the least?
Thanks a lot

[IG-88]

Not much help really, but I have heard of some luck being had with 8liner's chassis.

Have you asked this over at the KLOV forums? May have better luck over there.

[dhansen]

I'm so proud of this post, I'm going to bring it into 2012!! 

[IG-88]

Ha! Second archaic post I've read today. Amazing!

[TGov]

Ok, I am going to dig this thread up out of the grave again

I have an Orion tube out of a WG K7000.  I don't have the chassis and was wondering if the M3119-21 chassis would work with it.  Also, I am assuming I still need an Iso transformer with these chassis.

[Ken Layton]

I've not heard of that Wei-ya model and have no specifications about it.

You also did not state the size of the tube from your K7000. If 19" version, is it 22.5 mm diameter neck (small neck) or 29mm diameter neck (large neck).

[TGov]

Sorry, ya it is the small neck version. 19"

[TGov]

I am also getting 14.2 Ohm on the yellow and green wires on the yoke.

[Ken Layton]

The K7000 series chassis is considered "low impedance".

You may have to contact Wei-ya to get the specifications of that model Wei-ya chassis you have since I have no information on it.

http://www.weiya.com.tw/

[TGov]

I don't have one yet, I was just looking at the Alva website, trying to figure out which chassis I need for this tube.

http://www.alvaamusement.com/id5.html

[Ken Layton]

For the tube/yoke you now have, you would need the 1220-S (S means small neck) chassis if you need one that needs an isolation transformer. This is the cheapest chassis.

If you want a chassis that does not need an isolation transformer, the buy either the 2420-S or 2620-S. These cost more.

[TGov]

Thank you Ken for the information!  I have a spare Atari transformer assembly, could I use that for an Iso?

[Ken Layton]

If the Atari transformer assembly has a monitor section in it then you could use it.

[TGov]

It does, it is out of a pole position cab.  Thanks Ken.

[rCadeGaming]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but heck, let's see if we can keep this thing going into 2013.

I've read through the whole thread, and there's still a few things I've been unsure of for a while.  Mind if I ask some dumb questions?

1. What are the advantages of putting an arcade monitor chassis onto a tv tube, instead of just using the TV as is?

I can see the obvious one, that it provides an input for 5Vpp RGBS from PCB's.  I guess this is a must on older TV's with limited inputs, but CRT's with component inputs are practically free in the US now, so you can feed the RGBS through a transcoder with basically no loss in quality; and of course you can use an RGB SCART input in other regions.  (Should put some resistors on the lines to bring it down to ~1Vpp, and maybe some filter capacitors, not hard though).

I guess another would be geometry controls, but don't most analog chassis TV's have pots inside for this?  I doubt these replacement chassis's would have as much geometry control as the digital service menu on my Trinitron.

Am I missing something big?

2. From what I've read, it looks like all of these are 15kHz chassis's?  Is it possible to enable different scan rates with a different chassis?  Is the limitation in how fast a CRT can scan in the timing circuitry on the chassis, the electron guns/deflection equipment/something else in the tube, or both?

I'm guessing the tube itself limits the scan rate, but this is totally a guess.  If I could turn my TV into a trisync, I'd switch the chassis out real quick!

3. Are there any replacement chassis's for Trinitrons?  I know it's a totally different beast, but I've got one working in native res right now and I love the scanline thickness/appearance, the look of the aperture grille, the dot pitch, the flat face tube, etc.

[rCadeGaming]

Really, no response?  Ken?  TGov?

[amendonz]

Snaaake is banned?

[Ken Layton]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but heck, let's see if we can keep this thing going into 2013.

I've read through the whole thread, and there's still a few things I've been unsure of for a while.  Mind if I ask some dumb questions?

1. What are the advantages of putting an arcade monitor chassis onto a tv tube, instead of just using the TV as is?

I can see the obvious one, that it provides an input for 5Vpp RGBS from PCB's.  I guess this is a must on older TV's with limited inputs, but CRT's with component inputs are practically free in the US now, so you can feed the RGBS through a transcoder with basically no loss in quality; and of course you can use an RGB SCART input in other regions.  (Should put some resistors on the lines to bring it down to ~1Vpp, and maybe some filter capacitors, not hard though).

I guess another would be geometry controls, but don't most analog chassis TV's have pots inside for this?  I doubt these replacement chassis's would have as much geometry control as the digital service menu on my Trinitron.

Am I missing something big?

2. From what I've read, it looks like all of these are 15kHz chassis's?  Is it possible to enable different scan rates with a different chassis?  Is the limitation in how fast a CRT can scan in the timing circuitry on the chassis, the electron guns/deflection equipment/something else in the tube, or both?

I'm guessing the tube itself limits the scan rate, but this is totally a guess.  If I could turn my TV into a trisync, I'd switch the chassis out real quick!

3. Are there any replacement chassis's for Trinitrons?  I know it's a totally different beast, but I've got one working in native res right now and I love the scanline thickness/appearance, the look of the aperture grille, the dot pitch, the flat face tube, etc.

1. Arcade monitors as well as the universal replacement chassis are made for commercial use. As such, they are made to be repaired not thrown away like home tv sets. Look at how many Electrohome G07 monitors are still around plus you can still get brand new parts for them. Try to find an Admiral television set from 1980 still operating, let alone find new parts for it. The better replacement chassis have lots of adjustments (contrast and pincushion especially).

2. The vast majority of the universal replacement chassis are 15 khz scan only. Only a select few universal chassis have other scan frequencies (at a higher cost of course) and only work with certain yokes.

3. Sharp Image (rebranded Kortek) had one model specially designed to work with a Sony Trintron tube. I've only heard about it and have never seen one.

[rCadeGaming]

Ken, thanks for the response.

Fair enough about the availability of parts.  Quality TV's are fairly reliable and don't need servicing often though.  A good Trinitron can have at least 20 years of healthy service life.  My brother has one that was manufactured in 1990.  He uses it regularly and it still looks great for a set from that era.  The sets I'm interested in were produced in the early 2000's and they seem to be pretty rock solid so far.

You might be screwed if you do have a problem, but I can stockpile enough TV's to last a lifetime practically for free.

As for the level of adjustment, check out the service menu for Sony Chassis BA-6.  There are dozens of adjustments for both geometry and color.