Kickstarter project - Ultimate Mancave, need tips please

[Gravity123]

Hi everybody.  I'm new to this forum, and forums in general.  I've been making arcade machines since 1996.  In 1998 I started a company called Quasimoto Interactive.  Made lots of arcade machines but eventually closed shop in 2011.  I'm trying to get back into the business.  I've got inventory of a great arcade product (Game Gate) that I'm upgrading, and could really use some input on a Kickstarter campaign before I launch it.  Is this a good place to get feedback?

Thanks in advance!

[yotsuya]

I think personally I need more details before I could offer an opinion. Pictures? Links?

[Gravity123]

Good point!  Well, this is the first Kickstarter that I've ever done so try not to be to brutal

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chrisgerding/597456651?token=03d17579

Remember this is not live yet, and I haven't finished it all up yet.  I'm thinking I should get feedback on the pledge levels, price point, and general feel before making it go live.  Any thoughts here would be greatly appreciated!

[Gravity123]

One more thing that may drum up some interest here, I've got analog arcade buttons which is pretty unique.  I'm looking forward to seeing what interesting things the maker community will do with them.

[Gravity123]

Here's a pic of the control panel I made.  Has 8 way and ball top 4 way.  Also 2 analog joysticks and custom handheld brackets.  It's for a Coin-op Xbox 360 game machine conversion.

[Skinnysloth]

Are the X-box controllers removable?  I feel like it will get in the way or just jab into my stomach or crotch when using the arcade joysticks.

[sharpfork]

I've been a part of a successful kickstarter.  What do you want to know?

[Le Chuck]

To be honest this might not be the best place for feedback on your rig because we aren't your target audience for the most part.  Besides it looks complete and if you're at the launch phase you don't really need to hear opinions on how/why we would change your control panel/cab/system peripherals etc.

I am intrigued by the analog button tho and would like more specs on that. 

[Gravity123]

Yes, they are removable and also bend out of way.  The brackets are similar to the Xbox retail kiosk.

Sharpfork:  since you know Kickstarter just was hoping to find some people to look over it and give me some tips.  Are my pledge levels OK?  Are they clear or do they leave you with a lot of questions, etc.  Video to long/short, too much info, or anything else that just stands out as a mistake?  I'm hoping the price points are reasonable, I haven't seen a whole lot of Kickstarters with $1500 and up items.  Not sure how it will go so I made some lower level items such as the analog buttons and single player controller.

Thanks for looking!

[Gravity123]

Le Chuck:  the analog button has the traditional cherry switch with two other pins coming off of it (so 5 total).  The resistance is 5k and as the plunger presses it drops all that way down to 0.  It is done with dome conductive rubber, similar to gamepads but exaggerated to cover the longer button travel.  It is not a modified Happ, it is all custom tooling but the feel is similar to competetion buttons.

[Malenko]

I agree that we arent exactly your target audience.  I think the price points a little high on pretty much everything. $250 for buttons, sticks, and an encoder?  I mean I know the point is to raise money but that's a BIG investment, and that particular kit seems to be aimed at someone who knows what they are doing, and would likely not buy a pre-made cabinet.

[Gravity123]

Le Chuck:  This is the first time I've used a forum, looks like you are a pro with over 4k posts here.  This is GREAT!  Wishing I would have started doing this years ago.  I would have learned so much and perhaps saved myself from making so many mistakes.

One thing I'm hoping to get from here are some ideas on how creative people would use the Game Gate.  I imagine it would be great with a modified Xbox 360 (which I've never actually seen or done, only modified original).

[Gravity123]

Malenko:  good point, however I do know that you would have a hard time making what's here including delivery for under $1500.   Do you think there would be any interest in the cabinet without the arcade panel, so the user could build their own?  Would that make it relevant or is it too much of a stretch.

[ChadTower]

The controllers on Xbox kiosks don't bend out of the way.  They'd just hit you in the crotch as you're trying to use the arcade controls.

[Malenko]

Malenko:  good point, however I do know that you would have a hard time making what's here including delivery for under $1500.   Do you think there would be any interest in the cabinet without the arcade panel, so the user could build their own?  Would that make it relevant or is it too much of a stretch.

No, Im not knocking your price point on the final 2 things, its actually pretty reasonable all things considered. Its pretty much everything under that , that is going to be a tough sell.  As long as you're making money on the most expensive items, don't limit the number that you can sell. I don't think anyone would buy a machine with no CP , unless you're going to sell "flat pack" kits, which is probably going to cost an arm and 2 legs to ship.

To put it in perspective, the XBOX 360 EVO TE Pro stick goes for about 200 and its allegedly the "creme del le creme" of single player fight sticks, most people on ShoRyuKade sell single player sticks for 100 to 150 and they are the fight game experts over there.  Again, not knocking what you are offering and youre does have more "features" than their sticks ; but for me, I dont think I'd ever use 2 analog sticks, unless I was playing geometry wars.

[DaveMMR]

I'm not seeing why there'd be a need for controllers on the front of the cabinet anyway.  If you're using controllers, then why not go sit on the couch with some wireless controllers?

[yotsuya]

Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read.

One thing I'll add, because I'm not sure if it will cause you issues. My understanding was that the point of Kickstarter was to help people get projects "off the ground", whereas yours, to me, reads like you're trying to unload some surplus items that you have. What exactly are you trying to "Kickstart"? Do you think you'd be better off opening a storefront instead? Just potential questions that might come up. 

Either way, good luck!

[JDFan]

I'd have to agree with Malenko and Yotsuya - seems a bit high priced - How long ago did you get stuck with the inventory ?? you have to remember that in this type of industry the prices on excess inventory do not remain stagnant - thus you'll probably have to take a loss on the inventory you have to clear it out.

32" LCDs aren't in demand as much or commanding anywhere close to the cost you porbably had when you purchased them 2-3 years ago, since we are getting closer to seeing 4K monitors and there are many more options for affordable 40 - 50" screens and there isn't as much of a demand for arcade systems (since most of the kids nowadays are using their tablets\smartphones) -- Even the prices you show for the other arcade machines in the video are nowhere accurate for current pricing, as more and more the old arcade systems are being thrown in the scrap heap by the general public rather than rebuilt.

When you are talking a $1500 price point on essentially a case to play console games (and you're not even including the console or the games) you mention it plays thousands of games but make no mention of what the end user needs to supply in order to actually play those thousand games -- Are they going to have to purchase each game (at $10 - $60 per game that would mean another 10K + investment) or is the PC using MAME ? (Is it Legal to include MAME or will your target audience understand where to get MAME and the ROMs needed ?) - If they have to purchase the games they want to play or subscribe to an online service what is the added cost above the $1500 to actually have a wide selection of games to play and are the kickstarter investors going to realize that their $1500 investment doesn't mean they can plug it in and play those thousands of games without investing time\money to actually realize that ability ?  (figure the general public that you seem to be targeting probably will not understand that $1500 only gets them the hardware and they need to invest time\money into building up the software side )

What kind of front end does the machine use and what difficulty level is there in adding new games, setting up menus, etc.? And will your target market have the knowledge and experience to do that on their own without support ? ( what kind of after purchase support is going to be included if they need assistance - or are they on their own once the lift gate delivery drops it off ? )

While it might find a limited audience you really are kind of stuck in a bad position having a product that is going to require a fairly substantial amount of knowledge of the inner workings of setting up and maintaining the product and requiring a substantial investment to actually realize the ability to play "Thousands of Games" -- as those with the knowledge to do it themselves will realize they can build something similar at a reduced cost on their own and those with the $ to invest will expect it to be completely plug and play and require no further investment of time and money to play their thousands of games that you promise. (which is probably why you don't see any major company in this niche market)

Hope I'm wrong and things work out but most similar efforts in the past have seen pretty much the scenario you currently find yourself in -- someone stuck with thousands of $'s in inventory sitting in a warehouse losing value with additional funds being spent to store it. There may come a point where it is better to take the loss and sell off the units as is at a loss rather than keep investing more funds trying to find a way to recoup that loss.

[yotsuya]

Good points, JDFan.


The more I think about it, your target audience should be doctors and dentist offices, places where people with kids would need to wait for a while and would appreciate the distraction. My daughter's dentist office has a few arcade games that are always busy.

[sharpfork]

Are my pledge levels OK?  Are they clear or do they leave you with a lot of questions, etc.  Video to long/short, too much info, or anything else that just stands out as a mistake?  I'm hoping the price points are reasonable, I haven't seen a whole lot of Kickstarters with $1500 and up items.  Not sure how it will go so I made some lower level items such as the analog buttons and single player controller.

I only have a minute so quick thoughts:

• Kickstarter might not approve this as it seems like more of a store/marketing than an attempt to launch a new product.  You might be able to frame it as the new hardware to upgrade you existing hardware.  The overbuild explanation thing isn't a selling point as much as it seems like you are trying to repurpose a bunch of stock you are stuck with.
• you need options between $10 -$250
• what do I get for the $250 DIY ARCADE CONTROLLER pledge?  What about this hardware is so unique?  Is the encoder plug and play between pc and xbox 360 on the fly?  The mention of a "timer board" makes me think of cheapo laggy crap
• PC specs?
• monitor specs?
• I'd redo the video and show the viewer a few examples of why the analog buttons are innovative and what else about the setup is unique and desirable.

I have many other opinions about this project.  I do not think it will be successful as it stands.

[yotsuya]

Are my pledge levels OK?  Are they clear or do they leave you with a lot of questions, etc.  Video to long/short, too much info, or anything else that just stands out as a mistake?  I'm hoping the price points are reasonable, I haven't seen a whole lot of Kickstarters with $1500 and up items.  Not sure how it will go so I made some lower level items such as the analog buttons and single player controller.

I only have a minute so quick thoughts:

• Kickstarter might not approve this as it seems like more of a store/marketing than an attempt to launch a new product.  You might be able to frame it as the new hardware to upgrade you existing hardware.  The overbuild explanation thing isn't a selling point as much as it seems like you are trying to repurpose a bunch of stock you are stuck with.
• you need options between $10 -$250
• what do I get for the $250 DIY ARCADE CONTROLLER pledge?  What about this hardware is so unique?  Is the encoder plug and play between pc and xbox 360 on the fly?  The mention of a "timer board" makes me think of cheapo laggy crap
• PC specs?
• monitor specs?
• I'd redo the video and show the viewer a few examples of why the analog buttons are innovative and what else about the setup is unique and desirable.

I have many other opinions about this project.  I do not think it will be successful as it stands.

I agree with Sharpfork's points. You'd probably have more success with a Kickstarter to get the analog buttons made and sold then you would the full machines.

[Generic Eric]

I think if you had posted this as a project here, you would have received many questions about which encoder you were using, which stick, which TV and you switch from XBOX to PC.  I did Google you and saw that retroblast did a review on your (other) cab in 2005.

It looks neat.  I've thought something similar, who hasn't?  Putting a console in a cabinet.  I think you are working against the stream though.  Successful or not, Xbox/Microsoft has made an effort to take the game out to the arcade an bring it into the living room.  You are trying to take that experience out of the living room and put into a box, in the basement.  They've also made an effort to keep some of there console games off the PC, but I digress.

The game controllers are out of place as noted by others.

Where is the sync button for wireless players 3 & 4? Can all players be wireless?

I'd like to see more info about switching from players and audio from PC to xbox and back.

You should showcase scenarios where your analog buttons are a game changer.  Play one game from a cold start showcasing this cabinet.  PC or xbox.  I've seen xbox live.  Unless they have custom skinning, I know what to expect.  I've made numerous posts to the software forum posting suggestions for PC games that give you that arcade experience.  Some are better than others.  It seems like everyone uses a few buttons too many.

$250 for fight stick.  If you want buyers at that price, I think you'll have to show them more as to why its so much.  Where is the value?

In general, things that allow people to charge for MAME are met quickly citations of MAME license and general disdain if not virtual pitchforks and torches.

I hope you do well in your endeavors.  You may yield better results by selling the buttons, encoders, and your switching electronics than a whole cab, here at least.  If nothing else, search x-arcade here to see the responsive given when someone wants more.

I think that is a neat cab design.  You should consider reaching out to some of these cool cats that do the CNC cutting and working out a licensing deal on your cab design to be sold as flat-paks.  $0.99 or even $1.99 to every Joe Blow that thinks he wants to build a cab like yours but never gets around to cutting wood.  Monetize this or be content that someone got close enough by looking at the pictures.

+1 for request of PC and Monitor specs. 

+1 on advice for the video.  I mean you need a video, but it definitely looks like your trying to unload unused stock.  Beyoncé that video ASAP or sooner!

[yotsuya]

I think if you had posted this as a project here, you would have received many questions about which encoder you were using, which stick, which TV and you switch from XBOX to PC.  I did Google you and saw that retroblast did a review on your (other) cab in 2005.

It looks neat.  I've thought something similar, who hasn't?

Putting a console in a cabinet.  I think you are working against the stream though.  Successful or not, Xbox/Microsoft has made an effort to take the game out to the arcade an bring it into the living room.  You are trying to take that experience out of the living room and put into a box, in the basement.  They've also made an effort to keep some of there console games off the PC, but I digress.

The game controllers are out of place as noted by others.

Where is the sync button for wireless players 3 & 4? Can all players be wireless?

I'd like to see more info about switching from players and audio from PC to xbox and back.

You should showcase scenarios where your analog buttons are a game changer.  Play one game from a cold start showcasing this cabinet.  PC or xbox.  I've seen xbox live.  Unless they have custom skinning, I know what to expect.  I've made numerous posts to the software forum posting suggestions for PC games that give you that arcade experience.  Some are better than others.  It seems like everyone uses a few buttons too many.

$250 for fight stick.  If you want buyers at that price, I think you'll have to show them more as to why its so much.  Where is the value?

In general, things that allow people to charge for MAME are met quickly citations of MAME license and general disdain if not virtual pitchforks and torches.

I hope you do well in your endeavors.  You may yield better results by selling the buttons, encoders, and your switching electronics than a whole cab, here at least.  If nothing else, search x-arcade here to see the responsive given when someone wants more.

I think that is a neat cab design.  You should consider reaching out to some of these cool cats that do the CNC cutting and working out a licensing deal on your cab design to be sold as flat-paks.  $0.99 or even $1.99 to every Joe Blow that thinks he wants to build a cab like yours but never gets around to cutting wood.  Monetize this or be content that someone got close enough by looking at the pictures.

+1 for request of PC and Monitor specs. 

+1 on advice for the video.  I mean you need a video, but it definitely looks like your trying to unload unused stock.  Beyoncé that video ASAP or sooner!

All good points, GE. But what does "Beyoncé that video" mean? If he likes it he should put a ring on it?

[Generic Eric]

[dkersten]

Maybe I am missing something here, but what would you need an analog button for?  Are there games that actually use them?

The more I think about it, I can see using it in lieu of an analog gas pedal in racing games, but otherwise I can't think of a use for it.

[Gravity123]

All great input here, thanks everybody for taking the time to look it over.  Man, I almost wore that same outfit as Beyonce when recording the video.  Glad I didn't. 

So, regarding the Kickstarter "project" input, it is a project in that it will save the product from the dump.  I simply don't have the time to move these slowly through traditional retail methods, so I'm looking for a way to save them.  To answer a few of the questions posed here though:

1)  the joysticks and buttons are of my own design (with the exception of the 4 way, that's Happ).   I made the tooling for the D-sticks and the analog joysticks when I launched the Quasicade from years ago.  They are high quality or wouldn't have spent the money on the tooling.
2)  the controller boards are also of my own design, and register as a gamepad with Windows.  They include universal function for most game consoles with exception of Xbox One and PS4 (there are ways to adapt it)
3)  I'll have to lookup the specs on the PC, I'll get back to you on that.  It is plenty powerful to run emulators but has onboard graphics so would likely need expansion if you are looking for good 3d rendering.
4)  the handheld controllers are easy to remove and do not hit your crotch unless you attempting to hump the machine.
5)  my kids love playing on this machine even with the handhelds, and we have a 65" 240hz flatpanel at home.  There's something about the arcade format (close to the screen and sound) that makes it a more enjoyable experience.  If they want to sit back and play, they can do that too, but, like I said they prefer to be close (this might be because they are used to gaming on tablets, not sure).

I am planning on changing the video, I had a friend of mine do the editing and this was just a first pass.  Sounds like there are a lot of reservations here so wanted to get some feedback.  Thanks again for all of it!

[Gravity123]

Analog buttons are much more commonly used in newer generation games, not emulated titles.  Soccer, for example, harder you press the harder you kick the ball.  One thing noticeable in menu driven game selection UI, the harder you press down on the scroll the faster the menu will scroll.  I've heard of a desire for people to try the analog buttons on pinball flippers, seems that would change the game dynamics quite a bit though.  The biggest advantage for us though with the analog buttons is that we were able to adapt them for the disabled gaming community.  For example I designed an analog bite switch for quadriplegics.  Other bite switches are just on or off, but analog gives them a lot more control when you don't have the ability to hold a controller (harder you bite down the faster your car goes, etc).

[yotsuya]

4)  the handheld controllers are easy to remove and do not hit your crotch unless you attempting to hump the machine.

I think PinballJim might be lining up with cash-in-hand as we speak...

[SavannahLion]

I must've missed it somewhere but what's the life expectancy of those analog switches regarding their rubber domes?

It will be argued that there is no proper replacement for a true leaf switch but one can still get switches (ala Cherry) to replace a leaf switch if one were so pressed. Excuse the pun.

But what of your analog switch? Ruin that rubber dome and there might not be a proper replacement.

I am very intrigued about that analog switch, far more than anything else you've brought to the table so far.

[Saneless]

I was thinking track and field.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I for one am very interested in both the analog button and joystick.

Would these be available for sale as parts?  I'm sure a ton of people would be interested.  Especially with Steam games supporting more modern games that are "arcade friendly".

Perhaps by selling those specialized parts it can give you the boost the you need to move the rest of your inventory.

DeLuSioNaL29

[DaveMMR]

I think some of the unique panel parts you're offering (analog buttons, mini analogue sticks, etc.) would seem to be a better venture than selling full cabinets.

[yotsuya]

I think some of the unique panel parts you're offering (analog buttons, mini analogue sticks, etc.) would seem to be a better venture than selling full cabinets.

Yeah, I agree with this in the long run. Meanwhile, to get rid of your surplus, I'm telling you, places with waiting rooms would be perfect for something like this. My kids' dentist dropped at least $1400 on a ---smurfy--- wall-mount with a 60-in-1 in it.

[mgb]

Like some others had questioned, I don't understand how this is kickstarter worthy,
You have a surplus of cabs which you need parts to finish and sell, correct?

I also think the kiosk crotch pokers are a waste.

[Le Chuck]

It might be a blast to play but it just isn't my style. All the best in the sale and seriously, open a small store front for those crazy buttons of yours.

[nitrogen_widget]

Am I missing something?

If you want to save these machines from the dump then just offer to sell them as is.

Why would you trash them if you don't get money from kick-starter?
That doesn't make any sense.

[Generic Eric]

Why would you trash them if you don't get money from kick-starter?
That doesn't make any sense.

We had that one a few months ago.  It is called the "so & so gambit"  I'm not sure on the name.  Anyway, the idea is if person [a] doesn't

• amount of money for an item, they are going to do [y]  that may or may not be the story here.

[Gravity123]

Why would you trash them if you don't get money from kick-starter?
That doesn't make any sense.

We had that one a few months ago.  It is called the "so & so gambit"  I'm not sure on the name.  Anyway, the idea is if person [a] doesn't

• amount of money for an item, they are going to do [y]  that may or may not be the story here.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by the "so & so gambit", can you clarify?  Of course there are options for what to do with the equipment, but it is not atypical to liquidate by parting them out (LCD, speakers, PCs, brackets, etc).  That's more of what I mean by disposing of them.  I'd rather not do that because a lot of love went into every one of the machines, they are extremely well built and they work great as a game room item (with the modifications proposed).  Over 100 machines is a lot to store (they are sealed and brand new) and I'm moving forward with some new projects, need the space.  It's the "Save the Game Gate" project.  If there is a lot of interest in the unit, I can make more but the price would be way higher.  You guys know you can't build and ship a machine like this for $1500 delivered, it weighs 400lbs and is built to last a long time.  If I move all of the units or can at least show continued demand that would be great, but there are a lot of great companies out there making machines.  Truthfully I've launched a lot of different products in this space including selling arcades to Costco, Best Buy, and Sams Club.  Backers truly get a lot more for their money with Game Gate than any other machine I sold in the past, so hopefully it is a win win.  We'll see how it goes!
 

[mgb]

Personally, I think what you're offering for the price is pretty damn good.
    I really don't care for light up sides and all the hype crap, and I hate the word "mancave" but I think the equipment is
pretty cool.
I also thought the quasicade controllers were cool with those funky analog controls.
I just don't see how this applies to kickstarter.

[BadMouth]

and I hate the word "mancave"

Same here.  Might was well use the word sausagefest.

[dkersten]

Not that I am defending the word "mancave" but when you have been married for a decade or two you come to realize that everything you loved about your "bachelor pad" has slowly been removed from your home, and at some point there is a final "hold out" for the stuff a man wants in an entertainment/relaxing area that women want nothing to do with.. big TV's that don't go with the décor, old couches and chairs that are comfortable but ugly, and other non-feminine things like a bar, humidor, those old gas station and neon beer signs, pool tables, dart boards, and *gasp* old arcade machines, end up in one room, usually in a place where the more "civilized" women will never see when they come to visit (like the unfinished basement, the garage, or whatever dark and dingy part of the house they want nothing to do with).  AND, being married, they can't invite women over to hang out while they sit in their comfy couch watching a game or playing something, so I think "mancave" truly fits the bill.  My "man cave" is on my main floor right off the kitchen/living room area, and is between that space and the back yard (which is just an extension of the "man cave" area), so it is far from cave-like, and I have women over all the time.  Heck, my girlfriend wants me to install a stripper pole in that room, lol.  So I don't have a "mancave", I have a game room.  But I don't have a problem with the word..

As for the kickstarter, who wants to invest in something that has been obviously mismanaged from the start?  I don't mean to sound like an ---uvula---, but face it, you have to have at least $1000 into each machine, and with over 100, that is a $100,000 investment for a market that never existed.  Why would I invest money in someone who spent $100,000+ on a non-existent market?  And furthermore, if this kickstarter DOES allow you to sell those existing units, that won't show new demand, it will just allow you to unload "dead stock".  There is no future in it, just a liquidation of a bad investment.  Who would invest in that?

Finally, I suppose I can understand the idea behind the analog button, I just have never seen support for that in any emulator.  Again, a concept that is great in theory, but in practice sounds to me like tits on a bull..

[pbj]

Well, I'll take you at your word and accept that you were the brains behind the whole Quasimoto thing, rather than someone that just picked them up on liquidation.  I actually played an "Arcade Station EFX" in an arcade (of all places) and it was a really strange piece.  "Yeah, can you believe the owners paid full price for this thing."  "huh."  "Wanna buy it?"  "Nah."  "$200."  "Nah."  "$100?"  "Nah."

I didn't think about them again until they hit some bargain site.  Groupon?  Woot?  Can't recall site but seemed like they were shipping out of Texas somewhere.

They were an interesting product, and the analog sticks were nice.  But the problem with shoving an Xbox 360 level console into an arcade cabinet is that you're intentionally gimping the functionality of that console to make it a half-assed arcade machine.

To be frank, it's very easy to overestimate demand in this hobby.  You've already proven this product is a failure at the retail level.  What are you hoping to accomplish with the Kickstarter?  I think $1,500 is entirely reasonable for home delivery but I can't imagine any serious demand at any price.


Approach Stern Pinball with your analog buttons.  I always thought variable flipper power would be a neat gimmick on a pinball machine.

 

[ChadTower]

and I hate the word "mancave"

Same here.  Might was well use the word sausagefest.

+1   

Maybe we need to start a support group.

[Generic Eric]

and I hate the word "mancave"

Same here.  Might was well use the word sausagefest.

+1   

Maybe we need to start a support group.

You could hold it the basement of the community center.  In the dimly lit room with the old record player

[ChadTower]

Approach Stern Pinball with your analog buttons.  I always thought variable flipper power would be a neat gimmick on a pinball machine.

 

Capcom was just about there when the shut it down.  Kingpin has CPU controlled flipper power and uses it well.  The game feels a ton like Whodunnit but there is a timed mode where the flippers slowly lose power and then go limp if you don't complete the objective.  Pretty cool.  No player controllable power but that wouldn't be hard to add on their platform.

You could hold it the basement of the community center.  In the dimly lit room with the old record player

That's the American Legion hall, bro.

[Generic Eric]

Why would you trash them if you don't get money from kick-starter?
That doesn't make any sense.

We had that one a few months ago.  It is called the "so & so gambit"  I'm not sure on the name.  Anyway, the idea is if person [a] doesn't

• amount of money for an item, they are going to do [y]  that may or may not be the story here.

Something happened here with the formatting.  My apologies.

I little context to the point I was making.  There is a user here, vidkiller13 that parts out, and destroys cabs.  Recently, over the summer, but I can't find the post, there was another user that wanted to sell an item.  He didn't/wouldn't lower the price low enough and threatened to take it to the dump if it didn't see at the price he was asking.  He said he'd rather take a total lose then sell it for less, because he would still net a lose with disposal fees.  I recall that there was a term used for it, a negotiation style if you well, but I can't remember it, so I called it the "So & So Gambit."

That being said, it is clear you aren't doing that here.   That was more a response directed to nitrogen_widget. 

[yotsuya]

You could use the analog buttons as a substitute for the thruster in Lunar Lander. Clay Cowgill's developed an analog button for that purpose.

[ChadTower]

You could use the analog buttons as a substitute for the thruster in Lunar Lander. Clay Cowgill's developed an analog button for that purpose.

That's a cool idea.  Can't say I see more than 10 units of demand for that, though.

[yotsuya]

You could use the analog buttons as a substitute for the thruster in Lunar Lander. Clay Cowgill's developed an analog button for that purpose.

That's a cool idea.  Can't say I see more than 10 units of demand for that, though.

Well, Clay's also working on a multi-vector board that would be a drop-in for Asteroids, so you could replace the thrust button with his on the CP. If I get the board (which I probably will), I'll get the button as well. Trust me, if that board comes out, there's a demand.

[ChadTower]

Well, Clay's also working on a multi-vector board that would be a drop-in for Asteroids, so you could replace the thrust button with his on the CP. If I get the board (which I probably will), I'll get the button as well. Trust me, if that board comes out, there's a demand.

Not if Clay is selling that button alongside his board.

[yotsuya]

Well, Clay's also working on a multi-vector board that would be a drop-in for Asteroids, so you could replace the thrust button with his on the CP. If I get the board (which I probably will), I'll get the button as well. Trust me, if that board comes out, there's a demand.

Not if Clay is selling that button alongside his board.

I didn't say the demand was for the OPs button... obviously someone buying Clay's board would get Clay's button.

But here's something- if one were to buy the OPs analog button, what encoder would one use with it?

[dkersten]

wait, is this button "analog" in travel or in the force of the push.. The response to my question was that some games you could hit the button "harder" for, say, a harder kick.  I can press something softly and still bottom it out..  So which is it?  Or are we assuming that the software would recognize when it went from 5k to zero resistance in a shorter time frame that it was a harder push?  And what is the travel?  I mean, 5mm of travel for analog wouldn't exactly be "fine" control..

[Malenko]

wait, is this button "analog" in travel or in the force of the push.. The response to my question was that some games you could hit the button "harder" for, say, a harder kick.  I can press something softly and still bottom it out..  So which is it?  Or are we assuming that the software would recognize when it went from 5k to zero resistance in a shorter time frame that it was a harder push?  And what is the travel?  I mean, 5mm of travel for analog wouldn't exactly be "fine" control..

Sounds like this guy doesnt know how to float and bottoms out. Bet you suck at defender. I can beat that game with my toes.

[BadMouth]

If I had a spinner on my CP, I'd want the analog buttons as a substitute for pedals in driving games.

[Malenko]

If I had a spinner on my CP, I'd want the analog buttons as a substitute for pedals in driving games.

Yeah when I saw "analog button" , first thing I thought of was that sweet little OutRun Bartop.

[PL1]

if one were to buy the OPs analog button, what encoder would one use with it?

Since it only has two terminals, it is configured as a variable resistor.

To use OP's buttons, you'd need an encoder that measures 0-5k resistance -- not sure who other than OP carries them or if you could roll your own using an atmega32u4 or later AVR that has analog pin inputs.   

Most analog encoders like KADESTICK, A-Pac, and U-HID measure a variable voltage by using a voltage-dividing three terminal (potentiometer) configuration with ground on one tab, the measured voltage on the center tab (wiper) and 5v on the third tab.

The advantage to the potentiometer configuration is that you can use a wide range of resistance values instead of being tied to one value.


Scott

[BadMouth]

if one were to buy the OPs analog button, what encoder would one use with it?

Probably OP's or a pad hack.

Note he said it registers as 5k and decreases to zero as it's pressed.
5k shows as centered on most gamepads, including xbox360 controllers.
I'm guessing that's why they were made the way they were.
Ignore the fact that I didn't address how to use the other half of the same axis.

[Gravity123]

To be frank, it's very easy to overestimate demand in this hobby.  You've already proven this product is a failure at the retail level.  What are you hoping to accomplish with the Kickstarter?  I think $1,500 is entirely reasonable for home delivery but I can't imagine any serious demand at any price.


Approach Stern Pinball with your analog buttons.  I always thought variable flipper power would be a neat gimmick on a pinball machine.

 

I find this comment interesting considering we built a decent business on this "hobby".  We sold thousands of machines through over 200 retailers and created a lot of jobs along the way.  We have a lot of happy customers, you are just not a customer for the product.  Also the "$100k" investment comment - it was actually much more but was based on a PO for a single customer that folded.  It only represented a fraction of what was sold, we have just simply moved on to new things.  Also, Comparing Arcade Station to Game Gate is not apples to apples.  Remember Game Gate includes a PC so can run emulators plus Xbox 360 and the control panel layout is quite different.  Finally if you have ever run a modified console there are some great front ends and the addition of true analog control opens up a whole library of newer generation titles that play great as an arcade.

[brihyn]

Are the X-box controllers removable?  I feel like it will get in the way or just jab into my stomach or crotch when using the arcade joysticks.

You can't multitask? imagine being able to access the joystick with left hand, buttons with right, and dpad with the crotch? the possibilities are endless.

[Gravity123]

wait, is this button "analog" in travel or in the force of the push.. The response to my question was that some games you could hit the button "harder" for, say, a harder kick.  I can press something softly and still bottom it out..  So which is it?  Or are we assuming that the software would recognize when it went from 5k to zero resistance in a shorter time frame that it was a harder push?  And what is the travel?  I mean, 5mm of travel for analog wouldn't exactly be "fine" control..

The more the button travels, the more the rubber contacts the pad and resistance drops.  Pressing the button hard would make it travel to maximum (zero resistance).  These rubber contacts outlive the cherry switches, less moving parts.  We have never had an analog fail but we have had cherry switch failure.

[Gravity123]

Are the X-box controllers removable?  I feel like it will get in the way or just jab into my stomach or crotch when using the arcade joysticks.

You can't multitask? imagine being able to access the joystick with left hand, buttons with right, and dpad with the crotch? the possibilities are endless.

And the controllers vibrate, don't forget!

[pbj]

The PBJ BS detector has officially dinged. 

 

[dkersten]

Sounds like this guy doesnt know how to float and bottoms out. Bet you suck at defender. I can beat that game with my toes.

LOL!  Maybe I need to learn martial arts, then I could float with the other masters..

The PBJ BS detector has officially dinged.

Yeah, this keeps sounding worse and worse..

So to the OP, let me get this straight.. you built a successful business with this arcade cabinet, but now have over a hundred units you can no longer sell through retail means, so you are starting a kickstarter to ... ?  That is where you lose me.  Kickstarters are for people who have ideas but no funding.  You already had the business, you have the product, the business seems to have failed, and you want to raise money to do what exactly?  Pay for the stock you are losing??  The product is already dead stock, there isn't anything being developed here, and there isn't even a viable business model to profit from. (if there was, you would pursue that direction to unload your inventory)  I just don't get it. 

You are right, we aren't your customers when it comes to the product you are selling.  There is some interest in your buttons, but your reluctance to even acknowledge and address that interest tells me that there is something something fishy here. 

I usually give the benefit of the doubt with anyone I am not familiar with, but too many red flags are popping up here.  The buttons DO sound intriguing, and if that is something the OP is looking to market, perhaps talking to RandyT or Andy at Ultimarc would benefit everyone.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy an analog button from one of those two guys because I trust them.  This OP though, sorry, doesn't sound like he is on the level.

[Malenko]

from what Ive read he's re-purposing old inventory into a new product, of course I may be reading it wrong.

[HanoiBoi]

I read it the same way, Malenko.

Gravity, this doesn't sound like a kickstarter project, but rather just a straight sale.  Set and finalize the price points as seen in your kickstarter draft, then offer up the cabinets for sale by means of a website, Craigslist, eBay, etc..

Pretty straight forward but I guess it depends on what condition your current 100 machines are in.

It seems to me that you want to create preorders, as in locking in the sales, before putting any more time into the cabinets.  It doesn't sound like you want to continue after unloading what you've got.

If you are just looking to dump inventory, figure out an acceptable % of loss, and cut your prices, and get them listed.  Offer some as whole, offer some as parts

Either way, it sounds like a lot of work ahead of you.

Oh...and please, please change the subject.  'Ultimate Mancave' doesn't describe this thing at all.

[Gravity123]

Wow.  Lots of feedback u ere guys.  In case it wasn't noticed you can get the analog buttons through the kickstarter.  The machines are new and unused and have been sealed and are in perfect condition.  I have to put significant resources into converting them including reprogramming the UI, labor, procurement and a lot more.  It is a project to save them and I'm not going to do it otherwise.  I frankly don't have to sell any of this to pay my bills, and I have no reason to acknowledge any "red flags" you perceive.  I have always done business with integrity and will continue to do so.  I reached out here because I value people's input, especially on this forum because members should be creative and insightful or they wouldn't making their own machines.  I do appreciate those that have taken the time to give their candid input, and even for those who have taken their stabs.  It is the preparation I needed, And for that I thank all of you.

[dkersten]

If you are going to continue to pursue the kickstarter, just be sure to be honest about it and say that this is repurposed dead stock that you have no intention of manufacturing more of unless you can sell them all at a profit and find a real market for them (which you couldn't do before because otherwise you wouldn't be sitting on $100k+ of dead stock).  I'm not trying to be an ass here, but your story has evolved a little from the beginning.  You started by making it sound like you had developed a prototype and wanted to test the market further and get feedback.  Then you admitted that you had a lot of stock that you were trying to save from the landfill.  Then you said you had been selling them well until you lost a key customer and now want to liquidate your stock to free up space.  Not exactly straightforward from the start, hence why I get a bad feeling about your story and your methods. 

Good luck with your kickstarter, I am sure someone will profit from it...

[pbj]

 

[keilmillerjr]

A lot of hard work went into your product. Arcade machines are not cheap for a home owner. BYOAC forums encourages diy and repurposing to bring this expensive hobby to the average home owner. I think if you were to sell your existing cabinets as empty cabinet kits, you would get much more sales.

Just my opinion. I hope your kickstarter is successful, whichever direction it leads you.

[crossbred900]

Gravity, I'm the guy that has been asking questions on the Kickstarter page. I figured I'd ask more on here since there's more technical  info being posted. Can your analog buttons be made with 10k resistance? I'd love to use them as the L/R triggers on my hacked 360 pad.
Beyond that one highly wanted use, I couldn't replace all my Seimitsu buttons (with the awesome labels BadMouth made) with analogs though. You've already got a guaranteed sale of 2 analog sticks to me as soon as the Kickstarter is funded, or through website / direct sale if it fails. Can a bat top be used on it? What are its mounting dimensions? Can the bite switch you mentioned be made 10k?

[Gravity123]

I have tested these buttons before with hacked controllers.  The button will read up to 10k, so they will work for your project. 

The joystick pots are 10k and will work as well.  I will have a website up soon for the disability controllers we have been making, should be up in less than 2 weeks.  Most of what we have done has been word of mouth through ablegamers.org, an organization dedicated to video game accessibility.  I have a great amount of respect for what they do, and I do understand what it means to be disabled.  I lost my right leg above the knee a number of years ago, a condition that pales in comparison to SCI.

[Rick]

Whether using crowdfunding sites (Kickstarter, Indiegogo, etc.) to create a business presence or to build a successful business model, I've found that the arcade market in particular is sorely unsuccessful in most endeavours. I've read more than a few campaigns where people wanted to start a barcade or similar, and they've never moved very far.

[Gravity123]

Ok, for those that are still tuned into this, I made the final tweaks.  I changed the pledge levels, included the Xbox 360 for plug and play, and adjusted the content.  Much less "Mancave" focused now.  Thanks again everybody. I plan on launching this week.  I'll post a new thread when it goes live.