POLL: Which joinery option is best?

[Rick]

RTA Fittings are these:



If you've ever assembled a bookcase, you've probably seen these. The "cam" (above) sits in a recess of one piece, and a "post" is inserted into the opposite piece. When brought together, you rotate the cam, and it catches the post, creating a pretty strong bond between the two pieces.

This method offers quick assembly, and a fairly strong bond. If you glue the pieces in place as well, the fittings can act as permanent 'clamps'. If you choose not to glue, they offer the ability to disassemble your cabinet for future reassembly, however, you would need to make sure you didn't damage the holes that the posts are in - or risk having to repair them later.

On the other hand, the joinery method I've used on my cabinet kits is mortise and tenon (slots and tabs), which offer a permanent solution that is very, very strong. You use glue, and make a permanent connection of all parts. You don't have to worry if a very 'active' gaming session might damage your cabinet.

I guess I've always considered RTA fittings to be a 'cheap and easy' solution, and wanted to get your thoughts on what YOU would choose if given the option. I know that even the nicest homes have kitchen (bathroom, etc.) cabinets that have this technology, so it definitely can't be all bad, but maybe I'm just being 'old school' here.

What do you think?

[Le Chuck]

Not no but Hell No. I hate those things. They are a terrible cheap breakage prone joinery method. IKEA and Walmart trash.

[Rick]

Not no but Hell No. I hate those things. They are a terrible cheap breakage prone joinery method. IKEA and Walmart trash.

THIS is what I keep thinking people's opinions are, when I consider using these... I was actually going to have the poll broken out into five options, "HELL NO!" being one of them.

Thank you for the feedback!

[Scorpie]

These things give me trauma, Ikea uses this stuff alot.......brrrrr

[Malenko]

they are ---smurfing--- garbage. They dont just have the stigma of cheap, they are cheap.

[Le Chuck]

Seriously, I felt it was a huge step in adult hood when I could afford furniture that wasn't made with that trash. 

[iscariot]

Mine are joined with wood screws and battons, with wood glue in a few spots.  I hate those things.

[spoot]

Sure, if you wish to be known as the Ikea of arcade cabinets..........otoh, they do make money.   

[dkersten]

If I had to choose a joinery method that could be broken down for transport, then I would use cross dowels before these.  But there are better alternatives, such as hardwood batons and screws.  For anything permanent, I will glue and either clamp or brad nail any day of the week.  Wood glue used properly is stronger than any screw or fitting, and combining wood glue with anything mechanical such as a tenon joint or a dovetail joint is even stronger. 

If I were working with a prefinished material like Melamine, AND I needed the unit to be able to be broken down completely, AND once in place it wasn't going to be moved, AND I absolutely couldn't have screw heads showing on the outside, then these connectors would be an option.

[Sarver Systems]

And don't forget the hassle of installing them.

You need a forstner bit to drill the hole for the cam, and you gotta drill it EXACTLY to the level you need.
Then you need to drill the hole in the edge for the pin to sit, and that hole has to be EXACTLY where you want it too.

With a drill press, it shouldn't be too difficult though.

I think if you used enough of them, they'd be fine.

[keilmillerjr]

I have very little carpentry experience. I can build very nice horse shoe pits.

I would use t-nut for a collapsible cabinet.

[BobA]

For FAST durable joinery try a KREG JIG with the special screws.   They will hold a cab together without glue and if you add glue they will hold the cab tightly together while the glue dries for extra strength.  Advantage is you do not have to plan your tongue and groove conections (tab and slot) beforehand.   The boards are all flat and straight cut.  Place the Kreg Jig where you want the holes and use the special bit to drill the holes.   When you want to assemble just add the Kreg screw which do not cost much more than regular screws and will hold the cab together even without glue.

Home Depot has them in Canada and they are cheap.

[Ond]

Hand carved dove tail joints are the way to go.

[DaveMMR]

Not all IKEA furniture uses those RTA fittings. My Expedit bookshelf are assembled with long, heavy duty screws. It's also designed to hold very heavy loads. They're favored by vinyl record collectors, myself included, for their properly sized cubby-holes and the ability for them to hold literally hundreds of pounds of vinyl.   

My point is, if even IKEA wouldn't trust RTA fittings for furniture that's expected to pushed to the limits you should definitely not use one on a cabinet that will withstand normal vigorous abuse just by virtue of playing it.

[JDFan]

Another thing to keep in mind is currently most of your current offerings are bartops so there really is no need for them to be disassembled completely once built - those fittings are fine for some applications but always tend to break out or come loose after a bit of time especially in MDF or Melamine coated particle board making the cabinets they are used in wobble. Personnally I'd just stick with the slot and tabs (unless the CNC cost is much higher in which case I'd go to the batons and screws to hold in place while glue dries.

[wp34]

Seriously, I felt it was a huge step in adult hood when I could afford furniture that wasn't made with that trash.

Ha ha!  Well put.

[Rick]

Hey guys, thanks very much for the responses!

I'm guessing a lot of you guys may not be aware that I'm selling arcade cabinet kits, and have favoured mortise and tenon joinery for all of my builds so far. My idea for this poll came about when one of my CNC shops asked if I wanted to build a mockup using RTA fittings... I figured I would reach out to the community for their take, and wow - overwhelming responses really supported what I was thinking.

I will be continuing to provide my kits with what is, undoubtedly, the best joinery method available for both strength and ease of assembly, without bowing to the pressures of "easy and cheap" solutions.

Thanks!

[lilshawn]

RTA are good but require a few things to work properly:

1: The proper RTA must be chosen for the product being assembled.
2: the material must be strong enough to support the RTA anchor
3: the RTA setup must be proper (IE the anchor holes for the RTA in the exact spots)
4: there must be enough RTA anchors to properly support said pieces.
5: the end user must assemble the pieces properly without stress to the joint.

#2 #4 and #5 are the biggest issues.  Some materials just aren't capable of supporting RTA. Some companies think 2 RTA anchors are enough for an 8 foot piece of wood.  but mainly the biggest "---smurfy---" furniture issues come with not properly assembling the items. Bending stresses on the parts during assembly is a big no no and causes the anchor to pull in directions it's not designed to.

RTS systems require...care. (for lack of a better term.)

I've made/assembled desks and other furniture at my old job using RTS anchoring systems for years and more recently my own furniture...including a giant ass 4 piece entertainment system stand....it really comes down to proper assembly and then leaving it the hell alone...dragging it across the carpet is a really bad idea. When I move (which I have done several times in the past 10 years since I've got it), I wrap it with shrinkwrap plastic and pick it up with a dolly. I don't try and pick it up sideways. I don't drag it around. I don't move it full of equipment. you know what? it's just as strong as the day I put it together.

People used to ask me to assemble the desks ahead of time, and then deliver them. "No. because it's not exactly moveable once assembled. it doesn't take moving well." then sometimes after I was asked to assemble them and then disassemble them again and repack them for delivery (i have no idea why) "No. Because once you screw in the anchors, if you remove them again the strength of the anchor hole has been compromised and this thing will fall apart"

RTS has it's quirks, has it's uses, but is also bad for some things. A piece of furniture you will never move. Great. A rolling cart with a big heavy item on it that you roll around everyday. Not so great.


EDIT - accidentally a word or 2 and maybe really been so far even as decided to use, even go want to do look more like something else.

[keilmillerjr]

I've made/assembled desks and other furniture at my old job using RTS anchoring systems for years and my own furniture...including a giant ass 4 piece entertainment system stand....it really comes down to proper assembly and then leaving it the hell alone...dragging it across the carpet is a really bad idea. When I move, I wrap it with shrinkwrap plastic and pick it up with a dolly.

Expensive bed set my mother bought me when I was younger. The MDF/laminate/crap joinery unit fell apart and destroyed because I dragged it without mattress across my carpet along. Expensive pile of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Why can't they make furniture out of real wood and bolts anymore?! Bed frames are expensive. In the future, I'll make my own.

[DaveMMR]

People used to ask me to assemble the desks ahead of time, and then deliver them. "No. because it's not exactly moveable once assembled. it doesn't take moving well." then sometimes after I was asked to assemble them and then disassemble them again and repack them for delivery (i have no idea why) "No. Because once you screw in the anchors, if you remove them again the strength of the anchor hole has been compromised and this thing will fall apart"

So serious question: if you can't disassemble/reassemble with these things, what would even be the point of using them outside of manufacturers just making it easier for the end-used to put things together?

Also....

EDIT - accidentally a word or 2 and maybe really been so far even as decided to use, even go want to do look more like something else.

Huh?

[Rick]

Huh?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Simple question, really.

[lilshawn]

People used to ask me to assemble the desks ahead of time, and then deliver them. "No. because it's not exactly moveable once assembled. it doesn't take moving well." then sometimes after I was asked to assemble them and then disassemble them again and repack them for delivery (i have no idea why) "No. Because once you screw in the anchors, if you remove them again the strength of the anchor hole has been compromised and this thing will fall apart"

So serious question: if you can't disassemble/reassemble with these things, what would even be the point of using them outside of manufacturers just making it easier for the end-used to put things together?

exactly. it's one time use really. sometimes if you are super careful (such as you accidentaly a piece together) when you remove it, you can get it back together again without much issue.

when people assemble RTA, the first step is usually the makes/breaks for the whole thing. you usually have to assemble 2 parts at a 90 degree angle to each other and you decide to teepee the parts and lock them down. problem is, it's never exactly 90 degrees and you stress the anchor and it starts to pull out while you tighten it down. then you fart around with  trying to attach another part and you start bending the slack back and forth and before you know it, you have a wobbly connection.

Huh?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Simple question, really.

You're kidding me. I've been further even more decided to go, even need to do looking more as anybody are. Can you really be far even as decided half as much as to wish for that? I guess it is that when you really been far as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use... even go want... to do look more like.

It's just plain common sense.

EDIT: looked it up... was pretty close 

...

  i am a sad now.

[Rick]

i am a sad now.

Just don't an hero. Not in my thread, anyway.

[yotsuya]

I use MIND POWER to join my parts together...

[DaveMMR]

Huh?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Simple question, really.

Oh, you internets with your lingo and your Astleys!   

[lilshawn]

Huh?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Simple question, really.

Oh, you internets with your lingo and your Astleys!   

shaddup! that's a great song.

[Rick]

shaddup! that's a great song.

[DaveMMR]

Huh?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Simple question, really.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Nobody on this side of the screen is disparaging Astley. Man hit top 10 eight times in the UK and was able to "retire" at the age of 27. And I personally owe a few of singles. And he went along with the "joke" by appearing in the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Nothing but respect for the man. 

Oh, you internets with your lingo and your Astleys!   

shaddup! that's a great song.