Any advice, feedback, etc?

[dkersten]

I have a few parts and am strongly considering a sit down racer cabinet of some sort.  I had originally intended this to be a "sometime in the distant future project", but I am bit pretty bad by the bug and my brain won't stop thinking about it.  I am basically fishing for ideas here, and while my budget is pretty flexible, ideally I want to make use of what I already have.

Right now I have a set of pedals (brake and gas) from a sit down Daytona USA, along with an APac to interface it.  I also have a G25 setup on the way.  I can put together a pretty hardcore gaming PC for practically nothing.  I have a 42" tv I could use as a monitor, but if I can find a decent reason to use a triple monitor setup, I would spring for 3 27's..  I also have a pretty well fleshed out wood shop and a moderate set of skills in all areas required here, as long as the medium remains wood and not steel.  I have plenty of strong hardwoods lying about that I can build structure with..

I am at a point where I want to lean toward modern games, not arcade.  I am thinking of using a racing seat for a car, probably a transducer in the seat to add to the "experience", a 5.1 sound system, and whatever badass games I can find to run.  Unless someone can show me a racing game that requires xbox or playstation that I can't do better with a PC, I have no intention of using any consoles.  Obviously I will have mame installed to run some of the good classics, but my mame cab covers most of my arcade needs already, so this needs to be something different.

So my first question would be: if you had a choice between the 3 pedal G25 plastic stuff or a 2 pedal setup you could never break no matter how hard you slam, which would you choose?  I don't know how many modern games require the clutch pedal. 

Second question goes further into making a decision on what to build as this is in VERY early planning stages (but likely to move ahead fast).. If you were planning a sit down, would you go fully enclosed or open cockpit?  I am leaning toward open cockpit for size and ease of getting in and out, but the enclosed offers the advantage of a better sound system and more of a retro arcade feel.  Plus the enclosed is just cool as hell.  I am running short on space though.. gonna have to get rid of furniture to make room as it is..

Third question:  I don't have much experience with modern racing games, so I don't know what kind of multi monitor support would be out there.. if you were going to build the "ultimate racer", and could do 3 27" screens, would it be of any value or would you end up with 2 blank screens most of the time?  If there is no software that really enhances the 3 monitor setup, then there is no reason to spend the money.

I would love to get any ideas or opinions I can here.  I am fully aware that the best way to approach this would be to pick a game or list of games I want and build around that, but I can either spend the time playing games or spend the time building cool toys to play the games on, and frankly I am more interested in building right now than playing.  So I am doing the next best thing: pulling from a pool of other people's experience and opinions..

[Generic Eric]

thewayiplay.com and http://simhqmotorsports.com/forum/ are more likely to have the answers.

The best advice I can give you is to use what you have and then upgrade what you don't like.  I went with what I could afford at the time.  Its still on a shelf waiting to be used.   If you aren't going with logitech, I think http://eu.fanatec.com/ClubSportWheelBaseEU has what you need.

Check out the pedal mods on thewayiplay.com to show how they replace parts to build a stronger set of pedals.

As to open or enclosed? I would have an open driving pit, and an enclosed space fighter build.

Either way, the bar is set http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138146.msg1426735.html#msg1426735 by SpaceHedgehog!  For the arcade racer, there are several others that are fine examples.

In regards to monitors, if you have them lying around do 3.  I'm hoping to survive the wait until 4k monitors are more supported and less expensive.  I've seen plenty of videos on youtube using 3 monitors.  Pick a game you want to try and then learn what it supports.  If you can't pick one, check these out:

Grid Autosport
Dirt 3 or Dirt Showdown
Assetto Corsa

[BadMouth]

IMO, a Logitech wheel offers the most flexibility and most newer games will be preconfigured for it.
The Logitech profiler software will allow you to make custom configurations that will automatically be applied whenever the specified game or emulator is launched.

I wouldn't use the Daytona pedals with the A-PAC because they would show up as a separate controller and some games have issues with multiple controllers.  You can however, swap out the potentiometers in the Daytona pedals with 10k ones and wire them in place of the original G25 ones.
It just depends on which ones feel better to you.  You might be able to finesse the softer G25 pedals a bit better.

I figured out the values of resistors needed to make an interface that would allow you to interface a custom shifter with the G25/G27, but haven't got around to building and testing it yet (busy with home improvement projects....despite the fact that I rent). 

Not many games use the clutch pedal, but it's nice to have in a simulator.  I prefer to have one in real life driving, but often in games there is so much else going on that I opt to just use paddle shifters to simplify things.  The only thing bad about the clutch pedal on the G25/G27 is that the profiler software doesn't allow you to make any changes to it the way you can with the other pedals (company doesn't want to pay someone to update the software to account for the extra pedal).  I've only run into an issue with it once, but it still irks me.  In the game Fuel, the clutch axis is hard wired to reverse and your vehicle will travel backwards unless the clutch pedal is held halfway down.  The game isn't supposed to be compatible with the wheel anyway, but being able to remap the clutch pedal to some other axis would have fixed it.

If I were doing an "ultimate" racer, I'd do triple screens.  Even a lot of the old 3D arcade racers have been hacked to work on triple screens.
Nearly all new games that support ffb wheels support triple screens.  (There are the oddballs that only support xbox360 controllers)
That doesn't mean you can't start out with the one you have now.

If you're leaning toward the newer game/sim side, check out simvibe.
http://simxperience.com/Products/SimVibe/SimVibeSoftware.aspx
I haven't used it, but it has excellent reviews.

I think you'd be making a huge mistake by building something nice before becoming familiar with the games.
Build a sloppy test rig with good ergonomics.  Build your PC (get a video card that supports triple monitors as a single super wide resolution, AMD calls it eyefinity, Nvidia calls it Nvidia Surround)
Then play the games and see what you like/don't like, need/don't need.

As far as enclosed vs open.  Enclosed would be pretty cool for the immersion factor, but figure on incorporating a good ventilation system to keep you cool.
Sometimes racing for long periods makes you sweat. 

EDIT: Check out spacehedgehog's R-Pod: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138146.msg1426735.html#msg1426735

[dkersten]

Great advice, by all means keep it coming!  I am impressed with the build you both linked.  It makes me want to dial this up a notch or two.  I am usually more about function than form as long as it has enough "wow factor" to look like I spent some serious time on it.  Looking at something as impressive as the R-Pod, I fear that my wallet is about to take another big hit, lol.  To think I started this all with a tankstick and a cheap prefab cab.. started out not wanting to spend more than $500, ended up at about $800, sold it for $1500, and dumped about $2300 into the new cab and cp, and I am not done yet.  And now I am starting out thinking another grand can get me what I want with what I already have, and that number is rapidly increasing.. The upside is that I have a couple people throwing serious money my way to build them what they want, so I can get by with a pretty decent budget and end up not spending any more money.  But it definitely delays some other projects I was going to tackle this summer..

So my big concern is if I use the 2 pedal setup that I will end up bitten by the simulator bug as opposed to the gaming bug and I will end up regretting it.  But at the same time I fear that if I go through the effort and expense to have a 3 pedal system that is solid and can take a beating, I will end up never using it.  After all, if the sim is any good I could use the paddles to shift, and the same goes for a game....

I never thought about modding the pedals with the controller from the G25.. good idea, I will have to consider it.  I am still too far in the theoretical stage of this, so I haven't focused on details like that yet.  I DO intend to work on software and do more research before I cut the first board, but honestly when it comes to the core design, the things that aren't as easy to change later are the ones I want to nail down first.  I will design things different with one screen than I would with 3.  The same goes for pedals, so that decision has to be made fairly early on.  And of course the style of the cab (or would it be platform or pod, lol), is going to make a huge difference.  A lot of the design element is going to come from mocking up the seating, controls, and screen.

As for screens, I have a 40" on the wall in the game room that has been on 2 times in the last 6 months, so using that would be a no brainer.  I also have a couple dozen 20" widescreen monitors lying around... but that is not big enough for me.  Heck, I am already thinking that for one of the builds for a friend I will just sell them my current mame cab because the 27" screen I used isn't big enough for me.  I am now thinking a 40"+ mounted horizontally and using graphical marquees would fit my tastes better for that cab, and since my CP is 2 bolts from being removed from the cab, I have the luxury of rebuilding my personal cab and doing it with the profit off the "old" cab.  So I can't see myself using 3 of the 20" lcd's even though they would be free.  I think 3 27's would work best, but I have to be careful here, the 27 I bought for my mame cab won't go to any other true 16:9 resolution other than 1920x1080.. and driving 3 at that resolution will take some horsepower.. and I don't want to end up having to buy a $1000 graphics card to drive the 3 monitors.  Being able to dial down even to 1600x900 means nearly half the required power.  So instead of $360 for 3 27's, I might end up in the $600 range and either way I will be needing a decent graphics card, probably at least a $350 one..  Doable but then I start to wonder why I am putting a $100 used wheel, shifter, and pedals in.. This leads to rapidly expanding costs and one morning I wake up and ask myself what the heck I am thinking.  Granted, it is still less than my ex wife would spend in a month, but I still start to feel guilty that I am not putting that kind of money into my house or into savings, lol..

Good call on the ventilation too..  It is the little details that kick you in the butt after the build is complete..

[Xiaou2]

 Theres no reason why one couldnt take a 2 pedal setup..  and add a hacked 3rd pedal into the mix.   That could be controlled with a different encoder.   You could also make pedal setups that have multiple ranges of abilities, using alternative wiring thats wired to a few on/off switches.

 As for monitor sizes...   TX-1  uses three 19" arcade monitors that sit several feet away from you.. and the look and feel is great.

 On the other hand...  Ive played a Race Drivin Panorama..  that used 3  25" monitors,  mounted a little closer to the user... and I was not happy with the result.   It felt too close.. and you really didnt get that same panoramic look and feel.

 On games like Ms Pacman, and many other classics..  the screen is again.. a standard low-res  19"  monitor.    In many of these games, your standing pretty close to it.   It looks and feels right.    But when Ive played the modified versions that have had larger monitors installed...  they dont look or feel right.   You feel too close to them.  You get more pixilation effect from the stretched resolution scaling.   And in games like Robotron, where you need to look at every object on the screen at once... a larger screen would make you have to strain to contain the entire field of view.

 If you have ever watched someones eye move from left to right.. you will notice that the motion isnt very smooth.  It jumps a bit.    If you have to move your eyes a bit in a fast moving game where split-seconds count..  you may miss things due to the jumpy nature of your own eyes.   I think this also creates a bit more stress-fatigue in the long run as well.

 Furthermore... if you think about an 8ft screen would look at 4ft away -vs-  16 ft away?    You kind of realize that size is more relative to the distance from you.   As well as for example...  the "Blinder Effect".

 With many older games and many simulators..  they design the cabinets so that the edges come right up to.. and sometimes past where your head is.   The cabinets inner wall sides.. tend to be black.   The dark mostly-enclosed nature of this setup, keeps your eyes from seeing the surrounding areas in your peripheral vision.    As such, it makes you concentrate even better on the game at hand.. as well as makes you feel more engrossed in the experience.   A bonus is that the walls cause the sound to resonate in that field in a nice way..   and the outside cabinet side-walls help keep other games sounds from intruding on your games sounds.

 By enclosing your monitors in a black bezel framework, with a slight or full enclosure..  you wont feel the same about smaller displays as you do now.

 May want to try a few mockups with some displays.. or simulated displays using some cardboard + printed pictures of captured game screens, using the correct scales.