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Author Topic: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look  (Read 6349 times)

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kaneda

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Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« on: November 14, 2013, 03:54:52 pm »
Thanks for all the feedback guys.  I'm going to play on it as is and see how it plays.  I'm just really don't think the button spacing is going to be the "deal breaker" issue, but we'll see.  Look at later Capcom cabs...Anyway, I really appreciate all of your help, comments, concerns and overall opinions.  Definitely has given me a lot to think about.  But you can't deny, this Pedestal does look damn good.  They do nice work.




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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 04:04:28 pm »
Stick to one thread bro. No need to spam the forums for one project...

Good luck with the pedestal. If those jackasses at Nightmare Home Arcades are too busy to fix your panel later, I'm sure one of these fine gents here could hook you up with something.

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« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 04:06:05 pm by opt2not »

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 04:09:59 pm »
Buttons should touch, IMO.

"Jackasses" implies that it's more than one person, btw.


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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 04:15:23 pm »
Well they did say they had 30 custom orders to do before xmas...I'm assuming that's more than one person's workload.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 04:28:39 pm »
Well they did say they had 30 custom orders to do before xmas...I'm assuming that's more than one person's workload.

If by 30 they meant 3, then yeah.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 04:31:00 pm »
I promise you this isn't a knock or nit-pick, but is that stable? It looks like the front of the CP is well out past the front of the base.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 04:35:01 pm »
Well they did say they had 30 custom orders to do before xmas...I'm assuming that's more than one person's workload.

If by 30 they meant 3, then yeah.

In this hobby, and many others, "we" = "me plus 'the wife' I send to the post office occasionally."

Any self-promoting numerical claim, regardless of topic, can generally be cut in half.  If it involves how rich or busy someone is, drop a zero.  That leaves this guy and the frog in his pocket at 1.5 orders backed up.  That's a figure I believe.

 :cheers:

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 04:40:16 pm »
I've always liked you, James .  ;D

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 05:59:46 pm »
I'd put a short throw projector where that ventilation hole is in the centre.

Looks a perfect angle to display from.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 06:28:10 pm »
Oh man! I've never felt this level of anticipation for anything before. Can't wait until Street Fighter II Pedestal: Episode 4 comes out!

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 07:17:54 am »
A fool and his money are easily parted.

 
 You should have stuck up for yourself, rather than eat the mistakes that you will regret.


 First things first...  The guy states that all buttons should be  1.5" from center to center.   However, it appears that he is blind to the fact that he has mismeasured Your panel at about 2" center to center.

 Heres a simple way to tell if you can deal with it:

 Place your 3 fingers on your keyboard letters: A, D, G.    Thats about 1.5" center spacing.   All keys/buttons can be rested upon and or pressed:  Individually,  or in combinations of two... or all three at once, with ease and fair comfort.

 Now, keeping your middle finger on the F key... slide your left finger so that centered directly over the left edge line of the A key.  Place the right finger centered on the left edge line of the J key.

 For my hand, which isnt exactly small... being a 6ft tall guy,  has strain spanning that distance.  Which means... that if this were my panel... Id have to rest my two outside finger on the button bezels or edges.  Not comfortable at all, (especially since Id be using standard concave buttons) ...  AND, it delays reaction times, since your not already on the button.

 Multiply that strain by time playing.. and it gets 10x more straining in 5min, and by 10 min... your finger will feel like you have been holding your entire body mass off a cliff edge for an hour.   Since it takes muscle to actually force them apart... and those muscles have to be engaged for the entire duration of the gameplay...  you can actually cause a form of carpel tunnel  /  repetitive stress injury.



Quote
1.  The reason that all 4 player control panels built today and as far back as over 20 years ago is because angling the outer players gives the two inner player more shoulder room.  If you make all player's controls straight across it will require a larger than 48"W panel (most likely 54" at least) to fit everything and give all players the same space to play as the angled 48" panels.  We have built 100's of 4 player player angled panels and have not had 1 complaint on the playability and function.


 This guy is clearly arcade CLUELESS. 

 99% of all 4player Control panels have the sticks oriented with the Monitor, rather than the angle of the control panel front.   Its a big issue, and it will become painfully clear when you try to use those players sticks.  People will fight to get the center controllers.

 Yes, offset the bodies... that fine.  Thats been done as early as Gauntlet.   But look at Gauntlets buttons and stick layout.  Every stick is squared to the monitor, even with the side players being nearly 80 degrees to the monitor.  The buttons are not symmetrical.  They are arranged differently for each player, based on his standing orientation to the cabinet...  for best comfort, as well as reduced footprint.

 If nobody complained, it was probably because they were also clueless.. as well as felt guilty that they were the ones to send in the design.   Though, considering their examples shown... its really partially their fault, for not showing people the correct options & information.. and then letting the informed customer make informed decisions.


 Finally... if the buttons were reduced to 4 per outside players.. and all the other players buttons were the correct spec apart.. that would give you a lot more space to play with.  You can even slide the sticks and buttons closer to each other... it your really trying to fit things tightly.

 IMO, you really dont save that much space with angling the players.  Unless you have a bunch of very large bellied men... Think about it.  Most 2 player cabinets are standard width.  You are shoulder to shoulder with the person next to you. And, your often shoulder to shoulder with the people playing the games next to you, as well as surrounded with people looking at the action, waiting to play the game.    I personally always hated playing the outside players on games like D&D.  heh


 Its the Trackball that really causes most of your width issues. 
 
 So many people here want their control panels to be Symmetrical.. so they always center the Trackball.   But whats more important?   Symmetry or Playability / Injuries?   

 If someone gives a trackball a good hard spin, they WILL crash their hands into the nearest joysticks.  You need about a 1ft diameter circle minimum of clearance, free of any tall controllers... and or away from the monitor glass / control panel bezel edge.

 If you had moved your trackball closer to the buttons, you may have reduced the possibility of smacking into the joystick greatly.


Quote
3.  The reason the street fighter's buttons were so close together is because of the space limitation problem Capcom had with the normal 19" monitored or 25" monitored cabinets.  They had to fit 6 buttons in the space normally allotted for 2 buttons on these classic cabinets.   Normal button spacing for us and most arcade machines back in the good ol days were at 1.5" center to center from one button to the next.  This is the most comfortable layout for ADULTS hands to play at and how we and many other cabinet manufacturers today build their machines for Adults.   

4.  The majority of players playing these Street fighter cabinets back in the day were children with smaller hands.  Cramming all 6 buttons next to each other at less than this 1.5" C-C spacing will be uncomfortable for all ADULT players and will feel very cramped.   

 (Without going into his measurement error again... )

 This is complete  BS.  ALL OF IT.   Buttons being close together, makes it easier and more comfortable for Anyones hands.  Think about it... when your walking around, are your fingers spread out like your practicing eagle-claw kungfu?!   Why dont they change your keyboards keys to have 2" spacing between each key?   What about a piano?  The keys are also right on top of each other?  Guitar Hero controller: 5 buttons in a row, with minimal spacing, just like a guitars frets.  Hmm.. Logic Fail?!

 The Idiocy and Ignorance is staggering.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 07:37:36 am »
Look on the bright side, he's getting a great deal on mame and hyperspin.



good day.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 10:19:33 am »
Oh man! I've never felt this level of anticipation for anything before. Can't wait until Street Fighter II Pedestal: Episode 4 comes out!

 :applaud:  Hopefully its not a prequel.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 10:21:08 am »
Oh man! I've never felt this level of anticipation for anything before. Can't wait until Street Fighter II Pedestal: Episode 4 comes out!

 :applaud:  Hopefully its not a prequel.

I'm sure it will be a reboot.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 10:27:06 am »
Heres a simple way to tell if you can deal with it:

 Place your 3 fingers on your keyboard letters: A, D, G.    Thats about 1.5" center spacing.   All keys/buttons can be rested upon and or pressed:  Individually,  or in combinations of two... or all three at once, with ease and fair comfort.

 Now, keeping your middle finger on the F key... slide your left finger so that centered directly over the left edge line of the A key.  Place the right finger centered on the left edge line of the J key.

 For my hand, which isnt exactly small... being a 6ft tall guy,  has strain spanning that distance.  Which means... that if this were my panel... Id have to rest my two outside finger on the button bezels or edges.  Not comfortable at all, (especially since Id be using standard concave buttons) ...  AND, it delays reaction times, since your not already on the button.

 Multiply that strain by time playing.. and it gets 10x more straining in 5min, and by 10 min... your finger will feel like you have been holding your entire body mass off a cliff edge for an hour.   Since it takes muscle to actually force them apart... and those muscles have to be engaged for the entire duration of the gameplay...  you can actually cause a form of carpel tunnel  /  repetitive stress injury.

This was actually a great little tip. Thanks, X2!
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 10:33:51 am »
A fool and his money are easily parted.

A fool and his money are soon parted.
LOL @ getting injured playing an arcade game. The only game I know that actually caused injuries were the arm wrestling games and Sonic Blast Man.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 12:33:41 pm »
There is multiple ways of angling those sticks back to face the screen with-out destroying the CP top.

One option is to leave the old stick bolts where they lay, drill four new holes and use bolts with the same type of heads to re-attached (when a friend asks why the 3 and 4 player sticks have 8 bolts, just tell him they are heavy duty sticks for awesome players  :applaud: ).

Another, more attractive approach, would be to cut a universal plate that is orientated 90 degrees that would bolt to the stick and then bolt the plate to the CP...easy peasy.

Not sure if the guy who built the pedestal routed out the bottom of the CP to give the stick more height or not, but you could leave the old bolts where they are, not use them, and drill and screw in some nut-serts from the bottom and bolt them down with some 1/4 x 20 stove bolts and washers.

All three of these options are easy and are good little DIY projects for someone that is not comfortable working with wood (if I was a Badmouth or a PL1, I could probably point you to threads that show you how to do all three of these options, but I am not that good).

I would pop a spinner into the open area on the right side below Ryu and the chick, it would fit perfect.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 12:35:02 pm »
How many threads about this thing is there now?¿

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

         

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 12:52:12 pm »
Three or four (probably seven or eight if you include KLOV and the other art related question threads), but I find this one the most comfortable, go find one of the others if you don't like this one :laugh:.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 01:02:04 pm »
A mod should definitely merge them all.  I might even re-read it all.  :applaud:

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 01:08:00 pm »
There is multiple ways of angling those sticks back to face the screen with-out destroying the CP top.
Thing you are forgetting is that the artwork also lists the movements for those directions on the joys so the artwork needs to be rotated also not just the joys - so to do it you're gonna need to redo the artwork not just move the joystick orientation !!

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2013, 01:20:35 pm »
There is multiple ways of angling those sticks back to face the screen with-out destroying the CP top.
Thing you are forgetting is that the artwork also lists the movements for those directions on the joys so the artwork needs to be rotated also not just the joys - so to do it you're gonna need to redo the artwork not just move the joystick orientation !!

The suggestion was there in case he finds the angled joysticks a fail during game play. Who cares if the art says "UP", "DOWN", etc...---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, his "LOW PUNCH", "HIGH KICK", "MID POWER ATTACK" or what ever the hell they say, won't translate to any game he plays on it anyway (actually, I could be wrong about this, maybe the Simpsons and TMNT attacks match  :dunno ).

I don't usually stare at my hands when I play SF, I stare at the screen, so the labels wouldn't help me.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2013, 01:25:19 pm »
While I think your suggestions are very resonable, I have a feeling that the artwork issue wouldn't fly with the OP.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 01:43:56 pm »
What's center to center for proper Street Fighter 2 buttons?  He's going to fix it.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 01:56:54 pm »
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:06:36 pm by dgame »

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 03:12:50 pm »
1.5" center to center



http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

See this is why I get confused, this layout feels much more spaced apart than the images below.  Does anyone have a Z-Cab or Big Blue they can measure to confirm?


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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 04:24:44 pm »
The problem is that there is a nut below the buttons that can limit how close the buttons can go.

This is a graphic I did which shows the button nuts in a 1.5" pattern:



So any tighter than that and you may not be able to get the button tool around the nuts to tighten them.





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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 04:36:40 pm »
See this is why I get confused, this layout feels much more spaced apart than the images below.  Does anyone have a Z-Cab or Big Blue they can measure to confirm?

Remember, those holes are not for the buttons, they're for drilling. Like Jim said, the buttons have a lip as well. Dgame's example is a good one to look at.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 04:55:33 pm »
The problem is that there is a nut below the buttons that can limit how close the buttons can go.

I like my nuts just barely touching.  It ensures that they're evenly spaced.  ;)
That's closer than standard though.


I don't think the buttons are as close as the guy said they were.
In the pic, it looks like there is a half inch between the lips.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 04:59:14 pm »
Button nuts shouldn't be any wider than the lip of the button on the top of the control panel.  These things are designed to be pretty idiot proof.

Not that that's stopped anyone.




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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2013, 05:26:25 pm »
Button nuts shouldn't be any wider than the lip of the button on the top of the control panel.  These things are designed to be pretty idiot proof.

Not that that's stopped anyone.

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2013, 05:32:26 pm »
Why do we continue to bump multiple threads over the same project?  Even the greatness of Ond and Pixelhugger's projects haven't had this kind of wide-speead posting...
 :dizzy:

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2013, 05:34:58 pm »
Why do we continue to bump multiple threads over the same project?  Even the greatness of Ond and Pixelhugger's projects haven't had this kind of wide-speead posting...
 :dizzy:

Don't you know the old USSEnterprise Rule: keep starting new threads until you get the answer you want. Or until you get so tired of people being honest that you quit.
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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2013, 05:41:38 pm »
I believe this thread now deserves a proper cross-post excerpt from Episode 2: Endless Loop Reflections of a SF 2 Pedestal:

All aboard



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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2013, 06:20:42 pm »
Thanks for all your help guys.  I didn't cave.  Making them re-do it.  1.5" street fighter distance.  No way in hell mine was close to that.  At that, the lips of the buttons are almost touching.  Also re-angling the player 3 and player 4 buttons so that up is up on the screen.  Tossing out the 4-way stick that's sitting in no man's land.  And then we're done.

Track ball stays. Sorry.

I've been the world's biggest d-bag this week.  Sorry.  Let's just let these threads die.  Thanks again.

Nephasth

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2013, 06:22:38 pm »
I've been the world's biggest d-bag this week.

QFT

CoryBee

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2013, 06:40:04 pm »
I've been the world's biggest d-bag this week.

QFT

Quantum Field Theory??

Nephasth

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2013, 06:41:59 pm »
I've been the world's biggest d-bag this week.

QFT

Quantum Field Theory??

In some cases, yes. But not this one. ;)

harveybirdman

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2013, 08:14:32 pm »
I've been the world's biggest d-bag this week.

QFT

Quantum Field Theory??
Lol or Quit @#$ing typing....

Actually it means quoted for truth.

CoryBee

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Re: Update 3: Final Street Fighter II Pedestal look
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2013, 08:45:20 pm »