NEO GEO Evolution (EVS-1) - Experimenting with DIY trackball

[BadMouth]

EDIT: Going to keep a running list of current specs here.  Will add pics and video when cab is final.

A png with the dimensions is attached to this post:http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,119308.msg1487246.html#msg1487246

Current State:




PC: 3.4Ghz Athlon X3, 4GB DDR3, Nvidia 9800GT 750ti, 500GB HD, Windows Vista  Windows 10, but I may revert to 7

Monitor: 27" Planar PX2710MW (low lag, but viewing angle from bottom sucks. therefore when vertical P2's view is much darker than P1's)
Monitor Rotation: 5-1778-A   6" Stroke 27.5 LB. 12 VDC Linear Actuator controlled by a Pololu Simple Motor Controller 18v7

Audio: Genius SP-HF1800A 50w rms Powered speakers.  Mylar tweeters replaced with MK Audio silk dome tweeters
           + Dayton Audio SD215-88 8" Shielded DVC Subwoofer powered by a 70w rms Dayton Audio SA70

Joysticks: Sanwa JLF, SparkCE Optical Sensor, GT-C circular restrictor, Hand Candy balltops
4/8 way switching: custom built circuit to adjust voltage to IR emitters in SparkCE controlled by Pololu Mini Maestro servo controller

Buttons: Seimitsu PS14 KN 30mm Screw in Button for most buttons, PS14 D N K 24mm for navigation buttons

Interface: Hacked xbox360 fight pads for controls.   Key Wiz.  I went back to keyboard encoder for everything after updating to Windows 10 and having connection and order problems with the hacked xbox fight pads.

Light guns: bigben interactive Walther P99 replica for Wii


           




ORIGINAL POST:
I probably won't get started on this for a few weeks, but figured starting a thread would motivate me.
I was trying to wait until I had everything painstakingly planned out before starting, but I've come to accept that I just don't get anything done that way. 

This will be my "upstairs" arcade machine that I won't share with my drunken guests (they get to use the x-arcade tankstick).

It will feature a 27" LCD and be built with newer games in mind (atomiswave, naomi, taito type x)
I'm tempted to make it one player, but afraid I might regret it.

Here's the basic concept, width not actually to scale, artwork not aligned etc.


Will use these seimitsu buttons:

Inserts painted silver, then applied letters from Pongo.

Button layout will be similar to a Neo 29:
EDIT: Tried it out and this button layout sucks as it is.  For Player 2, I rotated it counter-clockwise a bit and the top row feels awesome.
         Bottom row feels ok, but will probably be shifted left.  I'm amazed at how close you can squeeze these Japanese buttons together.


For joysticks, I have sanwa JLFs with stiffer springs, quieter zippy switches, & slate hand candy balltops.
Haven't decided on CP art yet.  I'd like something similar to the original neo geo stripes, but modernized.
Some people have criticized the narrower marquees, but I prefer how this looks in proportion to the rest of the cab.
Not sure about color.  I'm kinda liking the black and white.  Maybe some kind of grey or silver in place of the white?

[eramsabe]

I kinda like the slim/lcd cabs, and I really like those buttons 

[bigmatty77]

Great concept and design, love those buttons. 

This will be one to watch 

[blackwatchplad]

Looks really good.. I love slim marquee.

Only thing is, I would consider it's foot print.. just make sure it's not too top heavy, nothing major.

Those buttons are slick.
and you gotta go 2 player

but.. you sure you don't want to paint it big red!??

[KagatoAMV]

After working with a full size cabinet, I'm really starting to like the slim cab design.

The buttons are great.

[wp34]

Artwork looks great.  I hope the cab will have the notch in the back you show on the artwork.  That's a great touch.   

[05SRT4]

Im with ^^^^^ The notch makes a big difference in style. I love when my pit makes those faces.

[BadMouth]

Thanks for the comments!

I'm going to incorporate a way to attach it to the wall.
It would probably be fine with some weights mounted in the back corner, but not going to risk it.

The notch in the back is indeed the shape of the cab.  
It was originally just for asthetics, but it will also allow the cab to sit closer to the wall while still getting ventilation.

The pitbull is a throwback to neo geo advertisements in the 90's.

I didn't want it portrayed as rabid though.  
The one on my workup is just copied and pasted from the internet, but I'll probably stick with it.
There will be other, more subtle NEO-GEO references throughout.  

I put the PC together a few days ago.  It's basically my old desktop with a new mobo and the processor leftover from upgrading my driving cab(3.2Ghz Athlon X2).
Much to my surprise, the system builder version of Windows Vista originally on the computer installed and registered without any issues.  
(it was my understanding that it was locked to the motherboard and not transferrable...was expecting to have to call microsoft and whine).
It's not bleeding edge, but should get the job done.  The only thing I had to buy was a budget mobo and CPU fan.

The reason I decided to use Vista is because I already had it and the newest version of Demul requires directx11 to see any improvements.
Since this cab will lean toward Atomiswave and Naomi games, Demul is a requirement.
I also haven't been able to get the Taito Type X2 game King of Fighters:Maximum Impact Regulation to work correctly on Win7.
I know they all work on this hardware and OS.

EDIT: can't get the directx 11 plugin to work now.    I swear it worked before reinstalling vista. 
         I'm using the same video card which is only directx 10, but it was working.
         Pretty sure I've done all the updates (been updating for 3 days now). Must be missing something.

My schedule opens up in a couple weeks and I'll be able to start on the woodworking then.  

[05SRT4]

LOL yeah the original dog looks like it may have some medical conditions!!

I cant wait to see the 27" LCD installed!!

[BadMouth]

After some more windows updates, the pc now has directx 11 and demul .5.7 is working just fine. 

After tinkering with the Naomi & Taito type X shmups, putting the monitor on it's side and realizing how awesome they are with a vertical screen, I've decided to add monitor rotation. 
That little design change has slowed me down a bit while I thought about how to go about it and ordered the parts.

I picked up the lumber today, but haven't made any cuts yet.
Here is the progress I've made on the rotating mech.

Started with a wall mount TV bracket and hacked some out of the center:


Added 200mm lazy susan bearing from fleabay.  The bracket is deeper than the lazy susan bearing is thick, so I'll have to add some spacers for everything to clear.  I could have flipped the bracket over, but wanted to do it this way.


Traced the monitor onto foamboard, drew on the screen position, punched a hole where the center of the screen would be, and then where the VESA mounts are.  This wasn't easy because sides of the monitor are slanted and the back of it is curved.  I had an "L" shaped piece of foamboard leftover after cutting out the monitor.  I used this as a square, holding it flat against the back of the monitor and marking the VESA hole locations while the other part of the "L" was against the top, then side of the monitor.  Note that the VESA mounts are not centered with the screen or the monitor frame.  By the VESA standard, they are supposed to be located at the center of gravity, but I don't know if that's always adhered to.


Then added some horizontal and vertical lines accross the center, lined the lazy susan bearing up with them (just eyeballing and lining up the lines in the center of the mounting holes), and marked the lazy susan mounting points.  So there's pretty much the pattern for the monitor mount.
EDIT: this pic is upside down
 

Foamboard monitor bolted on for testing:


The main purpose of doing all this was to see how much clearance it would have when rotating since the bottom frame of the monitor is wider.
Answer: hardly any.  I was planning to make the inside of the cab the same width of the bracket, but I'll have to add some wiggle room.
I'm surprised how accurate the center hole looks.  It appears stationary when the monitor is spinning.  I hope the real one turns out that good.


Here is the gameplan for the actuator:


I still need to make the mounting plate & actuator mounts.  Don't know how I'm mounting limit switches yet.  The cables have to pass through the center of the bearing somehow. etc etc etc.


I reaaaaaallly want to be centered when playing shmups.  I figure it's either squeeze in another joystick & 3 buttons in the middle, or make the CP slide to the right.  At least I have a width to the cab now (32"), so I can start doing some CP layouts and see what works.  The games will be unplayable from the player 2 position when the monitor is verticle because the viewing angle from the bottom of the monitor is so bad.  It looks awesome from the left or center.

[Le Chuck]

^ And now you have my riveted undivided attention.   

Excited to see how it goes with that bearing as I'm going to be experimenting with the same one later this summer.  Looking good so far. 

[Malenko]

why not the standard "street fighter plus 1" button layout with XYZ along the top?

I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread for sure.

[BadMouth]

why not the standard "street fighter plus 1" button layout with XYZ along the top?

Just personal taste.  My fingers instinctively go to the top row of buttons, so I prefer ABC up there.
My guests are the same way.

My theory is that people who have played a lot on modern consoles go for the bottom row because that's how things are arranged on modern controllers.  People who haven't played a lot on modern consoles go for the top row.    I have no idea if it's true, but that's my theory until someone is bothered to disprove it with a controlled study.  (not just anecdotal evidence) 

The main reason for the curved layout is  that I wanted to do something different from what I've done before and also more modern.
Especially since this cab is focused on modern games (2000 and up) that came in candy cabs which had curved button layouts.

[Malenko]

does me being 33 throw a kink in that equation? I used to map the punches to R(weak) X (medium) A (fierce) and the kicks to L (weak) Y (medium) B (roundhouse) in street fighter on SNES; so maybe Im just an oddity , lol

[BadMouth]

Cut the sides out today.  The original design forced the coin door to be mounted too low, so I modified it.
It doesn't look as balanced to me now, but I think it will look better once the CP is there.

I still don't understand what happened, but after everything else going smoothly, the router decided to climb toward the top of the panel instead of staying centered.  I have no idea what happened.  It didn't feel any different than it did going around the rest of the cab and the depth of the router didn't move, but somehow this happened (my camera decided to focus on the grass instead of the project):

It looks even worse after routing the correct path next to it.

Pretty horrible, but I had bondo glass on hand:


EDIT: Forgot to mention that after that, I was cutting down the center of a large piece of mdf on supported by plastic sawhorses and as soon as the cut was complete, everything fell in toward the center and made a big mess.  I had two sawhorses on each side, but I guess they weren't close enough to center.  When I went to make the next cut with the circular saw, I couldn't get the blade lined up, then realized that it was bent.  It must have hit the floor before the guard closed.  Good thing it was just a concrete basement floor.  No choice but to stop working and go get a new blade.  One of several points that I should have just stopped working at

Obligatory side panels against wall pic:


Got some of the non-angled panels cut too.  Here's an idea of the width:


This thing is becoming more of a beast than I'd planned.  Slim or not, 2 sheets of MDF is heavy.
It was originally going to be one player and just over 2ft wide.  It's now 32" wide to (barely) accomodate the rotation of the 27" monitor.
I measured a 32" lcd tv and it would also fit, but I wouldn't want to be that close to a 32" screen.
I'll post templates once I get this thing together and makes sure everything fits.

There happened to be a disc of aluminum stock on fleabay the size I needed for the monitor mount, so that was ordered and should be received by weekend.  It's 3/4", which is thicker than I wanted, but the price and diameter was right.  I should make good progress this weekend.

[TheShaner]

That looks eerily similar to my slipping t-molding slot bit fiasco. I feel your pain. Screw the bondo though. You should recut. It's early enough in the game to get the foundation right. The boards here talked me into recutting mine and I couldn't be happier that I did.

[05SRT4]

great bondo job! Like it never happened!

[GregD]

Is that a Periodic Table of Beer Styles?   

[BadMouth]

Is that a Periodic Table of Beer Styles?  

Why yes, it is.

EDIT:  Small update, not worthy of bumping the thread.
Messed around with the artwork concept a bit more.  I had some red t-molding laying around,
put a small strip of it on the cab and decided that I'm sick of black cabs with red t-molding.  
So this one will be red with black t-molding.  


I hope to have the cab standing and the mechanical parts of the rotating mechanism done this weekend.
There are still quite a few things I haven't decided how to go about doing, but I'll be able to visualize them better with the shell of the cab in front of me.  

[Malenko]

Im just not feelin the pitbull :/  Why not the 100Meg shock face?

[BadMouth]

Im just not feelin the pitbull :/  Why not the 100Meg shock face?

I like the pitbull....and the button layout.
Wait until you see the CP.  

I got the shell together less a couple angled panels that I don't feel like doing tonight.



That is one skinny marquee (lit area 4" x 30.5"), but I like the way it looks from the side.

I didn't stop to take any pictures (I'm a bad example anyway).
I went with these levelers instead of casters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270932581070?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Not a bad deal for a dozen.  I do wish the plate would have been bigger.

To compensate for the base plate being small, I angled them in the corners and added some extra bracing.

The panel opposite the coin mechs is on a piano hinge.  It will flip out and have the PSU, mobo, etc mounted on it.
The original coin box is pretty deep, so things might have to be arranged around it.
This panel and the removing the bezel will be the only way to get inside the cab, but between both of them, I can access every part.

I can't add too many more panels to the cab until I get the rotating mech for the monitor done.
The monitor will be set as deep as possible to get some distance from the screen

[Santoro]

I like the profile of that cab, nice design!

[BadMouth]

Finished up the angled cuts today.

Did a good job on the front......


And a crappy job on the back...followed by bondoglass  


The only panels left to cut are the speaker panel and the area behind the CP, but those can't be done until I know where the monitor will sit.
To be honest, at this point I don't even know what the CP will be shaped like yet.  

I made some progress on the rotating mech.  I came across an aluminum disc on ebay that was the exact diameter of the bearing, but it was 3/4" thick.    The price was right, so I went ahead and ordered it figuring it must be desitiny.  No such luck.  The thing just adds too much uneccesary weight.  I wandered around Lowes looking for a piece of metal big enough and strong enough and came across a $3 plate meant to prevent you from driving nails into pipes or wiring.  My original template had the monitor holes offset 45 degrees from the lazy susan bearing holes.  This plate wasn't wide enough for that, so I had to line them up.  After some trimming and drilling:


The mounting plate, bearing, and bracket...with nuts and washers between each level for clearance.
(The inner and outer rings of the lazy susan bearing are flush with each other)
It took a bit of trial and error to find the right length of bolts, etc.
The fact that some of my monitor bolts were located behind the bearing complicated things also.  


I was also on the lookout for something to use as a bracket for the actuator.
I found some square box aluminum stock with an inner diameter that was just a little wider than the actuator arm.
I still need to round the edges where it meets the arm and drill a hole for the pin, but here is the general idea.
The entire assembly is less than 3" thick, including the actuator.


I did some testing with the actuator (with no load) and it took 3-4 seconds between the built in limit switches.
That's the speed of rotation that I was shooting for anyway, so I'm going to try to set the length of the arm so that it stops at the perfect positions with the built in switches.  According to my calculations, wich are always suspect, the arm needs to be 4.25" which is about what is is in the picture.
This is all working out pretty close to my original design.  The only issue I foresee is that the other end of the actuator is within an inch of the side of the cab.  It's not in any danger of hitting the side, but it is going to interfere with the way I had planned on mounting the bracket.

I had an unusual amount of free time this weekend to work on this.
Progress will slow down from here on out, but I plan to finish the rotation mech on Tuesday.

EDIT: I was looking at the last picture and thinking about how to incorporate limit switches if I had to.
The piece of aluminum going to the actuator could extend to the opposite side with the switches mounted to the main bracket.
Things would still be compact and simple.  

[DaOld Man]

Good build man! I like your attention to detail, I could use some of that, got any to spare?

I am amazed at how far the rotating monitor science has come since I first made my clunky & slow CRT rotation.
Following this post closely..

[TopJimmyCooks]

Are you sure with that geometry and the stroke of the linac that you're going to be able to get 90 degrees?  It looks close but it's probably just the angle of the pics I'm seeing. 

[BadMouth]

Are you sure with that geometry and the stroke of the linac that you're going to be able to get 90 degrees?  It looks close but it's probably just the angle of the pics I'm seeing. 

The stuff is just laying there in the pic.  Nothing is drilled out or bolted together yet.
It's not too far off from where it needs to be though.
The actuator has a 6" stroke.  Imagine a 6"x6" square centered on the back of the monitor mounting plate.
I just need to take one corner and push it to the positon of the next corner to get 90° rotation.
If it comes up short, I shorten the length of the crank, making the square smaller.

It will be together and working tomorrow, so I guess we'll find out then. 

I'm swiping ideas from the Switchade for the CP btw. 
Nothing as elaborate, but I'm using the same t-channel as guides.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Cool can't wait to see what you did with it. 

[BadMouth]

Good build man! I like your attention to detail, I could use some of that, got any to spare?

I have attention to detail in the planning stages.  When I actually go to build it and just want to get it working is another story.
Never enough time to do it right.  Always enough time to do it twice 
(and it's all your fault I'm playing with linear actuators)

I learned a lot this evening.  The rotation mech works, but the final stopping points are very slightly off and I didn't build in any adjustments this round.  I just wanted to get the thing together and see it work.  I will end up redoing most of it, but taking more time to make sure it is correct.

If building off of a bracket, it may be useful to square the monitor bolts with the bracket and lock the bearing down to keep it from rotating.
This can help you set the position of the actuator so that fully closed (or fully extended) is square.
(but I didn't have anything handy to lock the position with, so my final result was slightly off)


Drawing lines between the bearing bolt holes on the monitor mounting plate will give you some good points of reference for mounting the crank if using one of these lazy susan bearings with a lot of open space in the middle.  It would make drilling accurate bolt holes for the crank easier.
I will do that when I rebuild this thing.

Anyways, here's what it looks like thrown together for now.
(had to add nuts to get some extra height to clear the bolts holding the bearing on)

 


The stops are slightly off.  I've got no excuse for the first direction being off, as I should have squared everything better before drilling the hole for the rear mount of the actuator.  If you get that one right, the crank length should determine the other one.
If they were off by the same amount, I'd blame the actuator mounting point, but it seems both that and the crank arm length are slightly off.


This is a case for just making it over-rotate and using external limit switches to stop it.  It would be a lot easier to get dialed in that way.

This design works fine......
I just need to measure like a machinist.

[Santoro]

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

At least you've got a machinist grade stamped steel framing square to work with!  [Kidding- i use a little speed square all the time for metalworking, so I can't say anything] 

Building in adjustable limit switches is the way to go. 

[DaOld Man]

....
(and it's all your fault I'm playing with linear actuators)
.....

I have to pass the buck to DarthPaul, he's the one that got me started on actuators.
Its just like they told us in elementary school about drugs, once you start you can never go back.

Seriously, I like how professional your build is looking.

[ataruzzolo]

Very smooth!

[kahlid74]

Very nice!  Great use of actuators and turning mechanisms.  I'm still concerned about the weight of your 27" monitor and the lazy susan (weight being on a different plane than the LS was intended to work with) but you've got the big dogs of rotating monitors in this thread and if they were worried they'd have said something.

Keep up the great work!

[Le Chuck]

Very nice!  Great use of actuators and turning mechanisms.  I'm still concerned about the weight of your 27" monitor and the lazy susan (weight being on a different plane than the LS was intended to work with) but you've got the big dogs of rotating monitors in this thread and if they were worried they'd have said something.

Keep up the great work!

The LS he is using is not a thrust bearing.  I'm not worried. 

[BadMouth]

At least you've got a machinist grade stamped steel framing square to work with!  [Kidding- i use a little speed square all the time for metalworking, so I can't say anything]  

Building in adjustable limit switches is the way to go.  

   Yeah that and a slide caliper that's too small to use on this project are about all the precision tools I have.
It could be worse.  I once owned a square that wasn't.

External limit switches are the way to go, but just for fun I'm going to elongate my mounting holes and see if I can get it adjusted to work with the built in switches.
Probably won't get around to that for a few days.

I'm still concerned about the weight of your 27" monitor and the lazy susan (weight being on a different plane than the LS was intended to work with) but you've got the big dogs of rotating monitors in this thread and if they were worried they'd have said something.

While I can't find a rating for the 200mm bearing I bought, the 300mm one (which is actually thinner) is rated for 330lbs.
Of course, this is with the force being applied straight down.  The races are flush, neither side is labeled as top or bottom, and everything appears symetrical, so I'd assume it's rated for that weight in either direction.
The monitor is only 14lb and will be tilted backwards, so I doubt the bearing is anywhere near its limits.

I didn't like that the stamped lazy susan bearings at the hardware store were only held together by the stamped sides, which is fine if they're mounted horizontally and the weight is pushing straight down.  If there is force pulling up on one side (away from the bearings), then the stamped joint which doesn't have any bearings is taking part of the weight.

This bearing is held together by the ball bearings themselves and the weight is on the ball bearings no matter what direction it's coming from.
Since it's symetrical and can take the same amount of weight on either side, I doubt it matters much which direction the weight is coming from.

[wp34]

Your cab looks a little beefier than the normal slim build.  I like that.   That notch in the back turned out great as well. 

[Nephasth]

I really like your approach to rotation with the linear actuator.

[DNA Dan]

Nice work! Keep at it. I want to see that 27 incher on there.

[SNAAKE]

nice doggie

[BadMouth]

Progress has slowed, but I expect to have the rotating mech working and installed this weekend.  I would have had it done this past weekend, but some unexpected guests showed up on short notice and stayed all weekend. Toward the end of last week, I had found time to remeasure everything, draw up a more accurate template for the monitor mount, and transfer it to a new piece of metal.

I reassembled the rotating mech yesterday.  Soooooo close to being perfect without external limit switches, but not quite.  There was a fair amount of play in it from all the nuts just being finger tightened.  They would loosen up the more I messed with the assembly.  So this evening, I attached the bearing to the bracket using copious amounts of red loc-tite & JB Welded some nuts in place on the side of the monitor bracket that I won't have access to once it's attached to the monitor. 

While waiting for that to set up, I fine-tuned the control panel layout:



The buttons in the top corners are Left Player Start and Right Player Start (will be printed on the artwork)
The red button in the center is Exit and the smaller 24mm buttons on each side of it will change the gamelist.
The top 2 inches of the CP will be inside the cab and will not move. 
The rest of the CP will slide 8.5 inches to the right so that player 1's Left Player's controls are centered when playing vertical games.
(It won't be automated)