Crap MAME II: Crap Harder

[Howard_Casto]

Remember this?

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/


I sure do... and I want to bring it back. 

I saw Dave's post here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118078.0

And it got me to thinking that we need to do this sort of thing more often... just for the heck of it.  As I posted... I want to take it to the next level though and start a full-fledged council.  Send us random pics to judge, send your own cab.... send us plans to an upcoming cab so we can stop you before it's too late!

But first things, first... we are going to need a council.  Senior members assemble!  PM me or post below. 

[DaveMMR]

Heh, I reread my post on the thread you linked to and realized I unintentionally used the same voice as the author of CrapMAME (the keyword I used there was "dude").

I'm wondering how much trouble we'd get into for doing something like that.  But then I also realize we post threads to ridicule (a) MAME (or the xx-in-1) cabinets that are being sold on Craigslist and eBay (b) MAME cabinets found outside these forums (c) horrible, horrible classic cubs butchered to attached some oversized monstrosity.  So long as we're not sniping the Project Announcements section, it might be pretty fun.

Assuming I qualify, I would like to be part of the council, even if only because I have too many opinions and I have to release them somewhere. 

(Note: On the flipside, I also still wish they were doing Mameys - haven't seen anything new there either. I've seen quite a few projects that would qualify.)

[SavannahLion]

Saw Dave's post? Go figure....

Since nobody really reads any of the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- I write, it's safe to say what I think.

Having a bunch of opinionated ---uvulas--- on a forum is bad, but part of forum life. Having a full fledged "council" where such ---uvula--- behavior becomes "official" is downright poisonous to a forum. CrapMAME is a beautiful piece of work because it's insultingly funny.

If you go forward, I suggest keeping it away from here. No sense in poisoning the forums. Take it from someone with first hand experience where a similar "council" appeared.

Pick the bad cabs carefully. There's a reason why the famous Nintendo cab isn't outlined at CrapMAME. On the flip side the whole idea is going to suck donkey balls if every moron submits his half-assed cardboard floor cab mockup or his crap Sketchup skills just to get his 15 minutes of fame.

CrapMAME author critiques his own CP. Think about what this means for said members of... Ahem... "Crap Council".

"constructive criticism" doesn't have to be nice or friendly but it does need to be there.

[Howard_Casto]

Dave:  Your in.  More than enough posts and you've been around long enough.  It's practically your idea anyway.  I'm just worried about my own qualifications.  Mind you I've been around the forums since the beginning (literally) but whenever I post a criticism people pick it apart, for no other reason then it was my post.  My infamy proceedes me.    That might work to our advantage though... nobody is going to take it too seriously if I do it... afterall, I complain about EVERYTHING!

Savannah:

I get what you are saying and I agree with you completely, BUT... a forum-like setup would be needed for this to work properly... that's the only reason I suggested that we do it here.   Once a submission is approved, however, it would make sense to post the council's results at an external site, so f-bombs can be dropped and what not.   

There won't be anyting "official" about it other than that fact that everybody on the council will officially be acting like big jerks.  Think Don Rickels... everybody wants him to call em a hockey puck. 

I like the Nintendo cab actually... it's the exception to the rule about console-based cabs.  Mind you I still think the concept of playing console games on a arcade machine is just dumb, but that one does it with so much style that it wins me over. 


I wouldn't be opposed to making it a requirement for council members to have their cabs put up on the block...  either to other council members, or the general public.  You have to be fair afterall and if a member doesn't have a thick skin then they aren't cut out to do it.


I've never posted anything on these forums that hasn't been constructive, so I don't think that'll be a problem.  Unfortunately my style of writing does tend to "twist the knife" a little, thus why I'm always making people mad.  Again, that might be perfect for this. 

[Le Chuck]

I've only been active for a few months but I have been lurking since I build my first cab in '04.  Never bothered to post because I didn't have anything (I felt) worth contributing.  I can see now that if I have started contributing earlier my earlier builds would have been even better despite my going to great pains to follow the advice of the day.  A lot of people come out of the shadows on this site because of the constructive criticism and positive feedback that this community provides.  All the other opinion threads are background noise, after all most of us like to argue and it's nice to argue with somebody you share a common denominator with, and that is a lot of the charm of this forum in my opinion. 

A great example is you Howard, I take the bait on a lot of your comments because I read them as pedantic or blatantly close minded but in those instances we're talking about comic books or classic cars or something that isn't home-brewed arcade machines and arcade controls.  You have been around forever and you do have one of those high post counts that people often (and often incorrectly) associate with authority but you're also a huge influence because of your contributions in code and sound advice.  I think you're wanting to do this to steer all these "young builders" in the right direction and help them avoid some expensive and unattractive errors but you do that already far better through your legitimate constructive advice.  Go be curmudgeonly on all the other threads but don't taint the respect we have for you by bringing your derisiveness into the one area of this forum that actually matters.  When Howard rants about why peanut butter is not a cultural icon people say, "Oh that's Howard being Howard, this gives me an opportunity to argue and get my worthless point across too" but when Howard says "This cab is going down the wrong path and here is why..." people take a listen. 

So do as you will, have a council, give out not-crap icons, crap-icons, and post overly harsh critiques.  My opinion doesn't matter one iota but if you go down that road I think you may lose some of the respect and credibility that allows Howard to go be Howard everywhere else.  You would from me at least. 

I think crap-mame is funny, I think on some level it is constructive, but I think it has no place here outside the occasional, "Oh my god, look at this train-wreck of a cab I found on X."  Thanks for taking the time to consider the uninformed opinion of a newbie         

[DaOld Man]

Sorry, but I dont think this is a good idea. Someone in this hobby for the first time may get discouraged if their "never before done idea" is made fun of in such a degree that it becomes a picture on a website that thousands will see.
We can steer the newbies respectfully, and they, and us, will get much more out of it.

[Well Fed Games]

  Unfortunately my style of writing does tend to "twist the knife" a little, thus why I'm always making people mad.  

There's a difference between people having thin skin and you being an ---uvula---.

This is a horrible idea, and totally against the spirit of the forums and Saint's book. Not everyone is skilled in design, woodworking, electronics, etc., but they still may create something that satisfies their desire for an arcade cabinet. I am not sure how your opinion factors in at all, actually, other than attracting attention to yourself. I would hope you are being sarcastic about this thread idea but I don't think you are capable of it.

[Malenko]

There's a difference between people having thin skin and you being an ---uvula---.

This is a horrible idea, and totally against the spirit of the forums and Saint's book.

^^ This

 

[DaveMMR]

In my mind, I have to say I see tons of examples, posted in threads like this that are mocked openly. But the difference is this - they are being sold on craigslist and ebay. Someone slapped something together and is now trying to profit (or make back money) from it. There appears to be a thriving (??) underground industry where the road to quick money is slapping together paint and wood, throwing MAME or a "xx-in-one" board in there and extolling its value as "playing thousand of games" to justify its ridiculous price tag.  For something like that, I call open season*.  

(*Perhaps likewise for classics being turned into chairs or sawing a DOT environmental into pieces so a 4-player panel can be grafted on.)

But I agree with other people. I would hope that this wouldn't be something where we'd skim the project announcements and pick on people whose only crime is being inexperienced with their build. That would be a very bad idea and completely not in the spirit of the community.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is the formation of a "review committee" (i.e. not necessarily CrapMAME watchdogs) where people could submit their projects voluntarily and have it critiqued and possibly highlight some projects that are of a great quality (I have quite a few nominations I bookmarked; LeChuck yours is actually one of them) that said committee could comment on (much like the Mameys used to do). And yes, also perhaps point out those aforementioned dubious cabinets - found elsewhere like CL, not in Proj Ann - as well.

(By the way, the only way to be a real CrapMAME 2.0 is if the original author just does a new batch. His worked because of his sarcastic style and the fact that he had done it realizing it was easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.)

[drventure]

I'm a little on the fence about something like this.

I mean, these forums stay, by and large, quite positive, and for people just getting into the hobby, that's a big plus. I never really got into KLOV because there's a lot of bagging going on there. Same reason I don't really bother with very many other forums.

Sure, I been critical of a few cabs here, just as most of us have been, but, like the vast majority of other posts here, I try to not be blatantly derisive, or harsh. But I tend to agree with DaveMMR about that one too. If the builder was bold enough to post a cab for sale, that's a different situation, and one that opens things up a little more.

I guess in the end, I'd just rather not see the crapmame sort of thing here. But it's not my board, it's Saint's, so it's really his call.

[Howard_Casto]

  Unfortunately my style of writing does tend to "twist the knife" a little, thus why I'm always making people mad.  

There's a difference between people having thin skin and you being an ---uvula---.

Well see there's your problem right there.  I've never ever ever ever ever commented on these forums for the sake of insulting someone, it's always been to make a point.  If you feel that I've been a dick, then you have thin skin, as you put it. 

[Le Chuck]

Dave, If you set it up like an academy awards for cabs and had a variety of categories concentrating on everything from "Best documented thread" to "Best Lighting" "Best Wiring" or "Best Art" to the standards "Best Standard Arcade", "Best Bartop", "Best Control Panel" etc I don't think it would hurt to have a single raspberry category like "Biggest CL's Stinker" or "Worst Auction" but I don't think that focusing on negative cabs would carry something like that.  The bad cab category would be a diverting sideshow to the real work of documenting great builds into groups, determining the best current practices and executions within the hobby, and getting them out there for people to see without having to chase the rabbit through a series of random best of links spread around the forums.  I think if done well that could be a real benefit to the hobby, not because we are getting little gold Galaga aliens to put in our signatures, but because it could really help somebody to see three or four similar projects compared against each other and have the merits of the execution intelligently commented on. 

I think there is a nugget of a really good idea in here but I think we need to rinse off the "CrapMAME" nonsense to find some value.     

[jimmy2x2x]

Dave, If you set it up like an academy awards for cabs and had a variety of categories concentrating on everything from "Best documented thread" to "Best Lighting" "Best Wiring" or "Best Art" to the standards "Best Standard Arcade", "Best Bartop", "Best Control Panel" etc I don't think it would hurt to have a single raspberry category like "Biggest CL's Stinker" or "Worst Auction" but I don't think that focusing on negative cabs would carry something like that.  The bad cab category would be a diverting sideshow to the real work of documenting great builds into groups, determining the best current practices and executions within the hobby, and getting them out there for people to see without having to chase the rabbit through a series of random best of links spread around the forums.  I think if done well that could be a real benefit to the hobby, not because we are getting little gold Galaga aliens to put in our signatures, but because it could really help somebody to see three or four similar projects compared against each other and have the merits of the execution intelligently commented on. 

I think there is a nugget of a really good idea in here but I think we need to rinse off the "CrapMAME" nonsense to find some value.     

Like this idea a lot, an annual vote and a glossy hall of fame would be a great way to celebrate the hobby.

[amendonz]

Lame idea keep it to yourselves. Also people put consoles in cabs to generally play arcade games on just like putting a pc in. Do you think we do it for COD or something lol

[Louis Tully]

.

[BobA]

IMHO just crapping on cabs for the fun of it is a bad idea.  Sure there are piles of dung out on CL or elsewhere but that is where they belong.  Keep it out of this Forum and you can do what you want but it seems very counter productive to anything we have here that is of value.  

[DaveMMR]

I do like the idea of setting up a simple "Mame Review" blog where people can voluntarily submit their completed projects (be it CP, upright, bartop, etc.) to be reviewed by a panel of "judges" with a diverse range of personalities and opinions and grade it on a scale of 1-5 - giving a "Gold Award" to an average of 4 and a "Platinum Award" to straight 5's. (And yes, I am partially ripping off EGM's classic review model.) It can be somewhat humorous but constructive (unlike CrapMAME that goes more for the sarcastic, biting humor, saving the valid points for the end). And the difference here is that it would work ONLY with voluntary submissions: people who think they have something special hoping for that "coveted" (tongue-firmly-in-my-fat-cheek) Gold or Platinum award.  Or maybe they want some infamy and have some thick skin?  Whatever the reason.  

And yeah, the "raspberries" that focus on what I call the "acceptable targets" would work alongside it, so long as it's not overshadowing. Hastily built cabinets being sold on CL? Yes. The Virtua Fighter cabinet? Absolutely.  

And then, as Le Chuck said and Jimmy Two Times agreed with, an annual "Best of the Best" awards for the high scorers in different categories. Perhaps even a physical award, if feasible.  Acceptance speeches optional, but mandatory.  

Something like this can be done on a simple Wordpress site for the time being, separate from the boards (I see BYOAC as a place for help, not so much for judgment.)

Anyway, was just rattling off some ideas there.

[Le Chuck]

IMHO just crapping on cabs for the fun of it is a bad idea.  Sure there are piles of dung out on CL or elsewhere but that is where they belong.  Keep it out of this Forum and you can do what you want but it seems very counter productive to anything we have here that is of value. 

This is a great idea, only if OND gets his own category. That way some of the other amazing projects have a chance at the top. Not knocking any builds here but the skill/talent that dude has (I'm sure we all agree) is just on a different level. 
[/quote]

OND's latest masterpiece is unfinished so wouldn't even make the first round of nominations if enough people decide they would like to see something like get off the ground.  Maybe he'll get it done in time for a lifetime achievement award  

I'm going to move this to it's own thread.  I don't want to threadjack Crap-MAME 2.0 any further but if you're interested in helping flesh out a viable tool to document and recognize some great contributors to the hobby I'll be in Everything Else "Awards Project"

[DaveMMR]

Yeah, by my own arbitrary rules, OND would not yet be qualified.  When it is finished, all other builders should just take the year off. 

[Howard_Casto]

IMHO just crapping on cabs for the fun of it is a bad idea.  Sure there are piles of dung out on CL or elsewhere but that is where they belong.  Keep it out of this Forum and you can do what you want but it seems very counter productive to anything we have here that is of value.  

I get the feeling that people have never actually read crapmame all the way through. 

At the very end there is a page that explains WHY the author heckled certain elements of a cab so hard.  Btw crapmame, is a product of the old irc chatroom... I was around and if I remember correctly (god that was ages ago) helped a little with the guidelines on what is bad in terms of design.  I take zero responsibility in regards to the humor or the submissions chosen though... that was all ________.


I definately think that a more serious review system is desperately needed around here as well...we should do that.
 
The point of crapmame though is to educate and make some reviews that everybody can get a good laugh out of.  It's very hard to do that when you are gushing about how awesome something is.  Also there has always been an underlying problem in this forum where people will say something is great even when it isn't.  I'm not saying that you should be a jerk and hurt somebodies feelings, but when you tell your tone-deaf friend that they are a wonderful singer they'll end up on the american idol tryouts making a fool out of themselves.

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, by my own arbitrary rules, OND would not yet be qualified.  When it is finished, all other builders should just take the year off.  

The OND Award?

I don't even look at OND's projects anymore. He steals all my best ideas, does them 4x better, then I find myself crying into my pillow at night, ashamed to show my own work. I'm fairly convinced that OND isn't a single person but the name of a shop somewhere consisting of a handful of skilled craftsmen. I'm waiting for the OND Hour on the Home Network, then I'll know the truth.

And as usual, Howard isn't really paying attention and assumes the rest of us aren't. Yesh.

[Well Fed Games]

I definately think that a more serious review system is desperately needed around here as well...we should do that.
 

Why? for what purpose?

but when you tell your tone-deaf friend that they are a wonderful singer they'll end up on the american idol tryouts making a fool out of themselves.

How does this relate to what we do here? Is it some sort of competition?

Also there has always been an underlying problem in this forum where people will say something is great even when it isn't. 

Is this really a PROBLEM? If so, why aren't you trying to fix the whole internet- because I am pretty sure on every subject at least half the population doesn't agree with you about what is "great" and "isn;t", and if things even need to be measured that way.

-pause here, let that sink in-...

When we like projects on the forum, we heap praise on them. When we don't, we can ask questions about why certain choices are made. It works great now and is the way forums based around creative hobbies should work.

Crapmame is funny, yes, no doubt about it. But it has been done, and moreso, has no attachment to this forum other than the fact that we are aware of it and have chuckled from time to time. The internet is big- do what you want. But IMHO we don't need judges or bullies here.

[Xiaou2]

but you're also a huge influence because of your contributions in code and sound advice

 When BYOAC was much younger, Howard went on a super-rant about how there was no visible difference between Composite and Svideo.  Going so far as to drive peoples decisions in the wrong direction.

 Quite simply, his advice isnt always Sound.   And to make things fair, even my advice hasnt always been sound.

 And while Im critical of many things... theres one thing I try not to do... and thats crap on someone elses hand made creations.  Theres a huge difference between some mega corporation, and an individual.  As is there a difference between giving someone advice, and trying to embarrass them and cut them down publicly for your amusement.  And or your "Idea" of whats right and wrong (opinions).  Forcing your Opinions down other peoples throats, and degrading them in the process... shows your Nazi style of black and white thought.

 Is it ok if we nuke the entire middle east because a small group gives us a problem?  Do the ends justify the means?   Trashing someone publicly does not help them.  Nor is trashing them justified by trashing your own creation publicly.

 The moral compass you have is screwed up.   And maybe thats because someone did the same kinds of things to you... and thats your means of revenge?  But regardless, its wrong. Plain and simple... its the wrong attitude.

 If you want to help waken people to advice on control panels... then do it in a way that does not offend.  Theres no need to use others at your expense.  You can simply tell the advantages and disadvantages with vector based drawings, rather than photos that are not your own.  People would praise it, rather than be upset and angered over it.

 Slapping someone in the face isnt the same thing as saying, would you like some help or advice?
Its certainly not love.. and its certainly not the kind of help most people would accept or enjoy.  But ahh, Howard, again, Im pretty sure thats how you are used to being treated.. because how else could someone be so cold?

 Then again, maybe you just feel you need some more attention.  God knows you probably dont have very many friends... and its most likely, because of a crap-attitude.  Hmm, do we need to make a crap-attitude site too?  Maybe some extensive detective work, incriminating photos...etc..?  Or should we keep your life to yourself and spare you of the embarrassments?
 

[Howard_Casto]

I definately think that a more serious review system is desperately needed around here as well...we should do that.
 

Why? for what purpose?

but when you tell your tone-deaf friend that they are a wonderful singer they'll end up on the american idol tryouts making a fool out of themselves.

How does this relate to what we do here? Is it some sort of competition?

Also there has always been an underlying problem in this forum where people will say something is great even when it isn't. 

Is this really a PROBLEM? If so, why aren't you trying to fix the whole internet- because I am pretty sure on every subject at least half the population doesn't agree with you about what is "great" and "isn;t", and if things even need to be measured that way.

-pause here, let that sink in-...

When we like projects on the forum, we heap praise on them. When we don't, we can ask questions about why certain choices are made. It works great now and is the way forums based around creative hobbies should work.

Crapmame is funny, yes, no doubt about it. But it has been done, and moreso, has no attachment to this forum other than the fact that we are aware of it and have chuckled from time to time. The internet is big- do what you want. But IMHO we don't need judges or bullies here.

What purpose?  Umm to keep people from spending a thousand bucks building a machine only to find out that due to their inexperience it's virtually unplayable.

No it isn't a competition, but I guess I didn't spell my point out enough so that you can get it.    If someone makes a "bad" cabinet and it is praised, two things happen:  

1.  The author who is excited, might go out and build more cabinets with the same problems.  Lots of times people are so excited about the build that they forget to sit down and actually play some games on their creations.

2.  Other people, with even less experience... see how this cab was praised and copy it only to find out later that it had errors in it's design which hinder playability.  

There is a plague in this country (heck this world) where people think that all opinions, even unqualified ones are valid.  They just aren't... this is the harsh reality of life.  2+2 is 4.... If you have an opinion that 2+2=5 then you are just wrong.  Crap MAME was never about a cabinet being ugly (although that obviously is pointed out), it was about a cabinet being nearly unplayable due to poor design.  I've been here since the beginning and I've seen a gradual improvement in the quality of cabs over the years, but yes, after 15 years I still see people making the same mistakes that make a cab virtually unplayable, so yes, it really is that much of a problem.

An although think that every submission ever made should be judged, that would cause too many problems, I'll point out that there are only three reasons for a project to be posted in a public forum:

1.  As an educational reference... so others can learn from it. - These things need judged because there might be bad advice in there.

2.  For others to give their opinions on it.  - In other words, so people can judge it.

3.  Fishing for compliments and nothing else.  -  I worry about these types of people.


Xiaou2:  You have much bigger problems than me.  Seeing this is easy.  I'm talking about cabs, and you are talking about people (me).  Any critiques I give have a level of distance behind them because I seldom, if ever talk about the person, but you ALWAYS have to talk about the person directly.  I would suggest that before you go around arbitually judging some else's moral compass you look inward and figure out what is so wrong with you that you take the opportunity in a public forum to attack my personal character, when everyone else is discussing the implications of a new website.

I think this has less to do with me, and more to do with the fact that I called you a "king troll" in a previous thread.  I apoligize about that, but to be fair you called me one first and it was completely uncalled for. 

[Xiaou2]

but when you tell your tone-deaf friend that they are a wonderful singer they'll end up on the american idol tryouts making a fool out of themselves.

 A person making a cabinet isnt trying to become famous. They are not trying to make any money.  They are not even applying to a job or a field of work in which building to opinion and or arcade spec.. is something required..  They are not trying to Whoo you, or somehow put You down with their creation.  They are merely happy with what they created, and decide to share it with others.

 Your grasping at straws feces.

 Its apples to oranges pal, and you know it.

 Personally, I dont watch the 'Bad Singer' portion of AI.  Not only because my ears cant take it.. but because its not something I approve of.   Yes, there are tone def people up there... but have you considered, in all of your infinite wisdom... that the people who egg them on are ALSO TONE DEF?!!!  Most especially, parents, where its genetic.   But also, yes, there Are in fact times when parents and friends dont tell a person the truth about their lackings.  But heres the difference... if someone I know sings poorly, I wouldnt care, because that their thing.  If they said they were planning on going to Idol... Id quip up... but in a way thats respectful and caring.  I wouldnt cut them down, post their video to youtube, make a website to trash them...etc.   If they didnt accept my honest, yet caring and kind opinions... then they are well and free to put themselves in a highly critical and judgmental position.  A position that critical for a serious reason.  Not for some stupid reason that it somehow offends someone that you make a control panel that you will never touch.  These people are not trying to be the best, nor win any comps.  If they dont like it, then let them rebuild it at their leisure.  Its part of the experience of life.  We all are not born perfect, especially according to Howards IDEA of perfect Spec.

[Le Chuck]

Xiaou2, you started off quoting me earlier but I think you switched to talking to Howard somewhere in the third paragraph when you made the Nazi comment?  

Just wanting to be clear that wasn't all directed at moi.  The following posts reaffirm that but I totally had to read that post twice.

I fully acknowledge my awareness that Howard isn't always right, but there are some peices of software I have working the way I want only because of Howard and his wrappers.  Credit where credit is due and that is to what I was alluding.  

[GibsonRiddler]

If judging people's work is a problem, why not start a forum of common mistakes and design flaws, with ways to fix them, or reasons why things work one way as opposed to another? I'm sure everyone has seen many of these problems over the years.

[DaveMMR]

If judging people's work is a problem, why not start a forum of common mistakes and design flaws, with ways to fix them, or reasons why things work one way as opposed to another? I'm sure everyone has seen many of these problems over the years.

Heh, there was a thread dedicated to common mistakes: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64251.0

[Le Chuck]

If judging people's work is a problem, why not start a forum of common mistakes and design flaws, with ways to fix them, or reasons why things work one way as opposed to another? I'm sure everyone has seen many of these problems over the years.

Heh, there was a thread dedicated to common mistakes: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64251.0

Off topic but PaigeOliver introduced me to the Updawg joke.  I still use that one. 

[nitz]

Yeah...seriously, this is a bad idea. Please don't do it. Or if you must, please keep it off this forum.

As others have touched on, I have no problem making fun of some doofus making a horrible mame cab and then trying to sell it on Craigslist for $5000 or whatever. But really, I think picking people's projects apart goes against the spirit of this forum and would make it a less pleasant place to hang out. Stuff like that is why I avoid most forums.

Don't get me wrong, I can have a laugh at others and at myself, and I think to even go on the internet at all, you need to be a bit thick-skinned...but what bugs me is, the cab in the thread that inspired this one really isn't even all that bad. He made some choices that I wouldn't have made, but I would hardly call that project "CrapMame".

I've been chipping away at a scratch built cab over the last few months and have been a bit reluctant to post a project thread - while I don't think my cab is quite "CrapMame", it is my first real woodworking project, and I don't have tons of money for tools or a great workspace. I've gotta get by with what I've got. It's a bit hard to post that among all the masterpieces on this forum. So then when I see something like this, it makes me really not want to post it. I have been taking pics as I go along, and I may post a few when it's finished if it turns out okayish...but we'll see.

So I think something like this would deter some people from posting their projects. And some of those people could really benefit from some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and what's more, we may very well benefit from some innovative idea that they might have...only they may decide not to ever post and then everybody loses.

I hate to sound like some old grump here, I really do. I have a sense of humor, and I think that anyone who posts pics of their cab with a CP the size of a surfboard with 20 buttons per player and 6 steering wheels attached knows that they're going to get made fun of. The jokes and ribbing in that case can actually be pretty funny. But I think having a "council" dedicated to making fun of people's projects crosses the line a bit - I get that it's being done in a satirical way that's not really meant to upset anyone, but I don't think someone who put a lot of hard work, time, and money into a project would really appreciate that.

There is a plague in this country (heck this world) where people think that all opinions, even unqualified ones are valid.  They just aren't... this is the harsh reality of life.  2+2 is 4.... If you have an opinion that 2+2=5 then you are just wrong.  Crap MAME was never about a cabinet being ugly (although that obviously is pointed out), it was about a cabinet being nearly unplayable due to poor design.  I've been here since the beginning and I've seen a gradual improvement in the quality of cabs over the years, but yes, after 15 years I still see people making the same mistakes that make a cab virtually unplayable, so yes, it really is that much of a problem.

If you're trying to say that it's a problem that we tend to take everyone's opinions so seriously nowadays and that no one can ever be called wrong, and that everyone should have praise heaped on them for fear someone might feel bad...then I agree with you. That crap annoys me to no end. BUT, I think it goes both ways. While we shouldn't say "everyone is right" or automatically heap praise on everyone for everything they do, I don't think the solution is to have a "council" dedicated to making fun of people.

Howard, although I vehemently disagree with you on some topics, I've always recognized you as someone who contributes some good stuff to this community...but this is just not one of those things. Please drop it.

 

[Ond]

WOW! what the hell is going on here?  From the seeds of one idea comes another.  I think if you are going to create a new area in the forum for appraising peoples work it should probably be grounded in a positive overall framework as Le Chuck is suggesting.  I've had my share of guilty chuckles at Crapmame and I get the end statements of that site trying to justify the means but at the end of the day it's negative.

Amongst the fur flying here are the seeds of a good idea.   For whatever reasons I'm happy to be excluded from the process (the whole group of me  )  I'd be honoured and my ego would be permanently inflated to insufferable bursting point if there was an OND award.  Go for it.  Edit, I didn't finish this post properly ( I was mobile and rushed it).  Just my 2 cents, I'm against Crap Mame II for this forum but I'm for the alternative Le Chuck has suggested.

cheers

Ond

[Xiaou2]

What purpose?  Umm to keep people from spending a thousand bucks building a machine only to find out that due to their inexperience it's virtually unplayable.

 Your exaggerating.  Modifying a control panel does not take $1000 more dollars.  NOR is there need to TRASH others to drive a point across.

1.  The author who is excited, might go out and build more cabinets with the same problems.  Lots of times people are so excited about the build that they forget to sit down and actually play some games on their creations.

1) Or maybe he likes the cabinet AS-IS, and your OPINION does not matter to him.
2) Maybe he decides to modify later... but doesnt show his new creation, because some A-hole decided to mock him on a website over it.

2.  Other people, with even less experience... see how this cab was praised and copy it only to find out later that it had errors in it's design which hinder playability.  

3) Or maybe they researched his thread, where people more gently told the person some advantages and dis-advantages... without the need to again, Trash the person publicly.

4) Or maybe, theres a site created that gives GOOD drawn out advice, without the need to TRASH others...

There is a plague in this country (heck this world) where people think that all opinions, even unqualified ones are valid.  They just aren't... this is the harsh reality of life.  2+2 is 4.... If you have an opinion that 2+2=5 then you are just wrong.

And yet, your trying to equate actual FACT from OPINION.  There are Plenty of Opinions on the Crap-Site, that have little to Nothing to do with Mathematics, nor FACT.  Its disgusting that you think like this... and that you try to HIDE behind such Garbage.

 

I've been here since the beginning and I've seen a gradual improvement in the quality of cabs over the years, but yes, after 15 years I still see people making the same mistakes that make a cab virtually unplayable, so yes, it really is that much of a problem.

 So what your saying... is that Even with hurting peoples feelings... Trashing them publicly,
that its not doing anything?  So, you think that by doing MORE of that, will change it?  

 Insanity is described as doing the same things over and over again, expecting to get different results.

 In the end, all you are doing is driving many people away.  Stepping on many peoples toes.. and driving them into their own little holes, never to want or care to share again.  (which is one reason why all of my inventions and advice, have been WIPED off this site, on purpose)

1.  As an educational reference... so others can learn from it. - These things need judged because there might be bad advice in there.

2.  For others to give their opinions on it.  - In other words, so people can judge it.

3.  Fishing for compliments and nothing else.  -  I worry about these types of people.

 There are many reasons to put things online.  Most especially if you are happy with the results.  But theres no good reason to TRASH someone over it.  I worry about people like that..  you know, the people who trash others, who have no real interest or care about the person they are trashing.  Who think they are somehow Saving the world, by destroying others. (Nazi-Ism)

Xiaou2:  You have much bigger problems than me.  Seeing this is easy.

Sorry, but its quite the opposite.  And why would you be able to see it... being that you are so stuck on yourself, and oblivious to others?

I'm talking about cabs, and you are talking about people (me).

When you trash someones creations, you are trashing them personally.  If I post a shrine website of all the things the foolish things you have done in your life... making jokes and critical judgements at your expense, you certainly would not be happy about it on a personal level.

 And samely, there are things we make artistically, and or just physically, that we are proud of.  And or later, maybe not so proud of.. yet have to deal with the fact that someone wont take down our old past... and slams it, along with everyone else, on a daily basis.

 Again, it IS personal.  Its just that your a ROBOT, and dont know what PERSONAL means.

 Any critiques I give have a level of distance behind them because I seldom, if ever talk about the person, but you ALWAYS have to talk about the person directly.  I would suggest that before you go around arbitually judging some else's moral compass you look inward and figure out what is so wrong with you that you take the opportunity in a public forum to attack my personal character, when everyone else is discussing the implications of a new website.

 Im giving you Direct personal feedback, rather than be an Anonymous coward and post things on some site. And my feedback, is to try to Stop someone who IS planning to attack others.
There simply is No good reason for it.  Thats what MORALITY IS!!!   A control panel, that isnt up to your spec, does not constitute Failed Morality.  But you somehow See it as that level!  Its messed up.  So yeah, I will Publicly stand up for the Moral rights of myself and others, because Im being Moral.  You cutting people down over opinion of their creations, even and especially Anonymously, is IMMORAL.

I think this has less to do with me, and more to do with the fact that I called you a "king troll" in a previous thread.  I apoligize about that, but to be fair you called me one first and it was completely uncalled for.  Wink

 Actually, I didnt take any offense to it.  I found it sad that you THOUGHT I would... because it shows how messed up you really are.  In fact, there are very few posts in which I actually TROLL.  Most all of my posts are helpful and respectful... and they only go off the deep end when after many repeated negative provocations.

 Look to my posts regarding angles or sticks... and you dont see any insults about other peoples layouts.  I voiced my opinions in a NICE and Moral way... and I didnt Force my view down the person throat.

 What you do IS Trolling however.  You intentionally Try to provoke others negatively... on pretty much every post you make.  If theres a king Troll award out there.. you are far more close to it than I ever will be.   

[Xiaou2]

Xiaou2, you started off quoting me earlier but I think you switched to talking to Howard somewhere in the third paragraph when you made the Nazi comment?  

Just wanting to be clear that wasn't all directed at moi.  The following posts reaffirm that but I totally had to read that post twice.

I fully acknowledge my awareness that Howard isn't always right, but there are some peices of software I have working the way I want only because of Howard and his wrappers.  Credit where credit is due and that is to what I was alluding.

 No Chuck, It was aimed at Howard.

 And for the record, Howard gets off far too easy most of the time, merely because people want something from him.

 I for example, Love the FFB effects he has helped to get instated.  However, Im not one of those people who holds back, merely because of my own desires.  If I feel something is wrong, I will stand up to it no matter what.

 You do not do a person any favors, by letting them off easy, when they are wrong.
My Grama has done that with my uncle.. because she is so paranoid that he will off-himself (he was never even close that point), that she has never righted him.  As such, he cant hold any lasting relationships, is a raging alcoholic, is morally wrong and selfish, and is one step away from landing in jail for a very long time.

[DaveMMR]

My Grama has done that with my uncle.. because she is so paranoid that he will off-himself (he was never even close that point), that she has never righted him.  As such, he cant hold any lasting relationships, is a raging alcoholic, is morally wrong and selfish, and is one step away from landing in jail for a very long time.

Geesh, you don't need to throw your personal family business under the bus to disagree with Howard.  And stop invoking Godwin's law.

[Le Chuck]

All wee cades get automatic honorary mention and I'm in.

I respect your consistency:

The Weecade both looks nothing like an arcade game... it's going to look like a poster glued to an IKEA bookcase.

For the love of Pac-Man, no more laminate cabinets.

No more "inspired by Wee-Cade" cabinets either.

 

Be sure and tell the landlord you're paying rent with those firm convictions next month.

That French cabinet looks no more ridiculous than all the Wee-Cades.

[SammyWI]

Count me among the nays.  Crapmame worked in it's day.  That day is over.

[TopJimmyCooks]

+1 for no crapmame 2.0 associated with this forum.  I would read it and probably laugh if someone started a blog, but I like the positive overall vibe here. I fully confess I piled on the OP's cab, which I have labeled the Log Cab(in) for clarity.  I feel like some of the people that post their bizzarro creations may get one or two lukewarm replies or some criticism.  But at least they don't get fried, unless it's obvious they are clueless or looking to rip unsuspecting lamebrains off, selling 10K Romz on ebay, etc. 

Other random thoughts:

• PBJ:  why the weecade dislike? Just curious. It's a bartop, seems like a decent enough look for that, and certainly well executed. 
• Xiaou2:  Is there a reason why you take out the headers from the quotes showing who posted them?  It's frustrating for this reader.
• My next cab finish:  Astroturf.  Done deal. 

[CheffoJeffo]

FWIW, I'm with BobA on this. And, there is no way that saint would ever want anything exclusionary or mocking associated with his site.

[Nephasth]

All wee cades get automatic honorary mention and I'm in.

I respect your consistency:

The Weecade both looks nothing like an arcade game... it's going to look like a poster glued to an IKEA bookcase.

For the love of Pac-Man, no more laminate cabinets.

No more "inspired by Wee-Cade" cabinets either.

 

Be sure and tell the landlord you're paying rent with those firm convictions next month.

That French cabinet looks no more ridiculous than all the Wee-Cades.

Careful now, PBJ is sensitive to post stalking...

[Le Chuck]

Careful now, PBJ is sensitive to post stalking...

Are we talking like horse head in my bed careful?  Did I just stomp on the toes of a BYOAC mafia boss?

[Well Fed Games]

Careful now, PBJ is sensitive to post stalking...

Are we talking like horse head in my bed careful?  Did I just stomp on the toes of a BYOAC mafia boss?

Lets just say, it didn't end too well for Ms. Pac Man... 

[drventure]

• Xiaou2:  Is there a reason why you take out the headers from the quotes showing who posted them?  It's frustrating for this reader.

He, like me, might not have realized there's a "QUOTE" button at the top of each post that you can click.

I'd always just copied the part I was quoting and then clicked the little Quote button in the toolbar, but that doesn't put the headers you mentioned on posts.

Or maybe it's intentional. Dunno. But my missing headers were always either me not realizing (or being lazy and not wanting to cut out everything else in the post, once I had realized it  But I try not to do that anymore...

[Dervacumen]

I don't post a ton but I read a lot and I've been around long enough to know this whole idea violates the spirit of BYOAC.  Host it off site if you must.  IMO, the best way to learn in this hobby is to do stuff and try different things to see what works for you.  I mean, it's in the name of the site, right?  This is not Build The Governing Body's Approved Controls.  And doing sometimes results in less than ideal results.  Discovering those on your own is a big part of the enjoyment of this hobby.  But maybe I need to be kicked in to line because I still don't have a back door on my machine, 5 years later.
I've read CrapMame through to the end three times.  It's funny because of the writing, not because of the content.  It could as easily be written about poor landscape design.

[ark_ader]

This rings too much to this thread and to be honest isn't a good idea.  But I will contradict myself right here and say Howards idea has some merit in another avenue.

People tend to look at this website to get more information on an expensive purchase, or to start on a project.  This site is very good for information.  In respect of that, it would be great if Saint expanded more on a Review Forum.  We could get a Turnarcades cab out (for example and not to diss Craig) and have a authentic BYOAC review.

This would help the buying public and the seller of the cabinet, through a series of informal and formal discussions.  That would work better.  In addition I would like to see a Forum of what not to do.  Preferably in the Woodworking, Software, Artwork and Restorations forums. 

It would save hours of searching for what not to do, or practices to avoid.  All with positive and productive feedback.  The community and sellers can contribute also.

That would work in my opinion. 

[Donkbaca]

I don't know, if there is a hall of fame, there might as well be a hall of shame.  FWIW, most people come here to learn how to build, and are paranoid about building something that is ugly and unworkable.  It could be helpful to have a database of "projects gone wrong" just to help people out and show them how hideous something can be.  Some people just aren't good at design, and seeing some of these projects might make them re-think the "I think blue lightning and marble paper would be sweet" sort of thinking.  It has to be done well.  Crap mame is there to make fun of people, not so much to critique what is wrong.  Crap mame did help in my build, helps you realize that you have to keep things like monitor size to cab size, and CP width in mind when you build.  I don't think we need to memorialize the failure of people who come here for help.  Usually if someone posts something that is a bad idea in his build thread, he will get constructive criticism to steer him in the right direction, and if they don't follow that advice, then there is plenty of ridicule.

That said, anyone that is trying to sell this garbage is fair game.  Like the famous Track and Field guy.  There is a difference between someone building garbage to satisfy their own warped aesthetic, quite another to commercialize it.

[Vigo]

I for one did learn a thing or two from the original crapmame. Visually seeing how an idea does not work, IMO, is the best way to avoid duplicating it. The poor execution in those cabinets probably saved more than just a handful people from duplicating those mistakes. It at least makes you seriously look at things like number of buttons to have, width of control panel, materials to use, etc. When all is said and done, it does help people churn out better ideas.

I would like to see some sort of "disasters to avoid" gallery, with all the new types of projects out there, there have been new pitfalls too. I am sure more than a few of us here have made bad mistakes that we want to keep others from making, so we could probably get a lot of creator provided material and put something together without downright bashing peoples work. Maybe it could be put in the wiki or something to keep the ill-spirited heckling away.

[Donkbaca]

You also get a lot of push back too -the franken panel lovers

[DaveMMR]

While the idea of a "what not to do" list sounds good, a lot of people on this forum have funny ideas of what looks good.  It's how we end up with "laptop in cardboard box" designs like Wee-Cade that may look appealing but are horrible as 2 player cabinets and why 2/3s of you have kitchen countertops glued to the side of your games.  

We're just as fad heavy around here as any other hobby and I have to groan when I see some golden oldie bad idea like three control panels on a Midway style cocktail that we were all crazy about in 2005.  In another 5 years we're all going to be rolling our eyes at all the pedestals we're making now.  

Good point.  But I think many people can separate what they personally don't like but still well done from what's just plain sloppy and/or a hindrance to gameplay.

Personally, I hate that "half-octagon" shape panel top, but have seen numerous ones that were very well done and attractive.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

I am all for constructive criticism, but I think this, the OP, is a bad idea for the larger, overall goal of the BYOAC forum (i.e. bringing in, and encouraging, more people to the hobby.)

Freedom of speech, thick/thin skin whatever, that's fine: but I think you should do it somewhere else. Frankly, I would be kinda shocked if Saint sanctified it by allowing it to happen, even in its' own sub-forum a la P&R.

[saint]

* saint has an opinion but is in lurk mode while people comment.

[elkameleon]

I am all for constructive criticism, but I think this, the OP, is a bad idea for the larger, overall goal of the BYOAC forum (i.e. bringing in, and encouraging, more people to the hobby.)

Freedom of speech, thick/thin skin whatever, that's fine: but I think you should do it somewhere else. Frankly, I would be kinda shocked if Saint sanctified it by allowing it to happen, even in its' own sub-forum a la P&R.

+1 to this, but i'm all for a seperate anonymous blog where I can poke fun and laugh ---my bottom--- off.

[pointdablame]

If someone wants to go make a blog/site like CrapMAME... go ahead.  You'll probably get a few laughs.

The idea of having some kind of ---uvula--- Council at BYOAC to tell people what is good and what isn't though?  Give me a break.  CrapMame works because it's absurd, and it's one guy's opinions.

Turning this into some pseudo-official "committee" is a terrible idea.  Share an opinion on the forums here, and leave it at that.  The internet is already full of ppl pretending they're important - we don't need another one.

[Well Fed Games]

* saint has an opinion but is in lurk mode while people comment.

Don't keep us in suspense!

[javeryh]

I love the idea of awarding MAMEYs or whatever they are called each year for the best projects, themes, new ideas, stand-up, cocktail, rotating, etc.  Have a nomination phase of 2 months (January and February) and then voting in March.  Only allow finished cabs to be nominated or something.  The recognition is definitely encouraging.  I don't think I like the idea of another CrapMAME site though.  We all know it when we see it.   

[Donkbaca]

I think it would be helpful if we had some helpful pointers. Like re: 4p cabs - no more than 4 buttons for p3 and p4; the question as to whether a 4p cab is even worth it.

I think most of the disagreement on here is in regards to the CP.  I think we would all agree on simple pointers, like, no batting in the corners of your marquee so that there is no shadows in the corners' make sure your bezel on each side of your monitor is no more than 2-3 inches, build your cab accordingly; a 2p bartop is almost always umplayable for 2p simultaneous play; you don't need that many admin buttons; etc.

Other things are a little more controversial - like the need for a keyboard tray (not needed IMHO)

Artwork and finish are up to personal taste, but as a general rule woody slim cab = sexy; woody CRT cab = bad piece of furniture.  Contact paper has no place on a cab.  T-molding is always recommended, a bezel is necessary, etc...

I think if we stay away from the CP, there are things most of us can agree on, but even with regards to the CP, I think we can mostly agree that the CP shouldn't be more than a few inches wider than the cab (some would say no wider than the cab at all).  I think we can all agree that controls should be positioned so that they are usable, for example if you want a trackball, it should be in the center, and it should be mounted so you don't see the mounting plate and you should be able to use it without jamming your fingers into anything.

[jimmy2x2x]

I agree with your are saying for the most part, but a slim woody maybe sexy to you but to me it spells poor display solution that will hinder the experience as much as a poor control panel.

[Ond]

Anyone here ever read Orwells Animal Farm? - "two players good, four players BAAAAAD" (and it all seemed like such a good idea at the time).

[DaveMMR]

Donkbaca, I have to say you hit it on the head. 99% of cabinet mistakes "questionable design choices" involve the control panel. Yeah shelf paper is ugly, small monitors in big cabs is unattractive and poor side art is not visually appealing but if the control panel is all there, you can still play an enjoyable game. Even if you're not an arcade purist, there's still a lot less wiggle room for "creativity" when it comes to having a good panel that other parts of the cabinet.

[Howard_Casto]

I didn't expect this to blow up in my face like it did, but I'm glad that people pulled the thread back on track and started getting the discussion going again... that was the whole point btw... I dunno why people get so huffy all the time. 

CrapMAME II isn't happening, at least not officially. 

I think I irony here is I saw it as a positive thing and wanted to make the new one have full transparency to keep it positive.  That's why I suggested things like a review board, and letting everyone know what was going on ect..... The irony comes in that some people, the same people who were concerned about such an idea being negative, bombarded this thread with non-constructive, wholey negative comments that basically "ran me off" from the idea.  Now I'm not mad about it... I just thought it would be something fun the whole community could take part in rather than endless posts about comic book movies. 

It just makes wonder if people realize that even by opposing something you deem as negative, thusly trying to keep things positive from your perspective, you can actually generate much more negativity than the original idea based on how you handle your response.  That goes for me as well, but at least I'm aware of it. 

Anyway, there goes my Dr. Phil moment....  I'm going to concentrate on the awards thread that spawned from this so some portion of this idea can be salvaged.

[Donkbaca]

I think there is merit in helping people that don't have a firm grasp in design by showing them examples of things gone terribly wrong.  It can even be a crap mame thing.  Just don't say stuff like, "that CP looks like my cat ate all my buttons and then diarrhead all over a sheet of MDF"  Instead you can say something like, "this is an example of how too many admin buttons can clutter up a CP".

Unless someone is trying to sell the cab, then game on. 

[Green Giant]

Anyone here ever read Orwells Animal Farm? - "two players good, four players BAAAAAD" (and it all seemed like such a good idea at the time).

If you follow US politics, it is pretty clear that many many people  **cough cough**99 percent kids**cough cough** have not read Animal Farm.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[Donkbaca]

have you read animal farm? The whole "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" is a phrase that demonstrates the corruption of the leadership and how they serve their own interest, not that of the people.  So the 99% would probably say that they are demonstrating against the pigs who have grown out of touch...  unless I am missing your point

[yotsuya]

have you read animal farm? The whole "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" is a phrase that demonstrates the corruption of the leadership and how they serve their own interest, not that of the people.  So the 99% would probably say that they are demonstrating against the pigs who have grown out of touch...  unless I am missing your point

[Le Chuck]

Howard, you can't name your thread Crap MAME II:  Crap Harder and then expect people to think that you wanted to keep it positive.  I think a well written powerpoint PDF showing various CPs and cabs of questionable design systematically critiqued and then put up in a no nonsense "Common mistakes of first time cab builders" thread would go far to meet the same end without stepping on any toes.  You could even use the cabs from Crap Mame as there are plenty of examples that could be more genuinely explored.  That doesn't even take a committee, just somebody with a good eye for what works in this hobby and a bit of free time. 

There will always be cabs of varying quality, I think that's a biblical truth or something.  That said, I'm glad to see the brakes pumped on this one and glad to have you over on the other thread trying to work out a different approach.        

[Howard_Casto]

Howard, you can't name your thread Crap MAME II:  Crap Harder and then expect people to think that you wanted to keep it positive.  I think a well written powerpoint PDF showing various CPs and cabs of questionable design systematically critiqued and then put up in a no nonsense "Common mistakes of first time cab builders" thread would go far to meet the same end without stepping on any toes.  You could even use the cabs from Crap Mame as there are plenty of examples that could be more genuinely explored.  That doesn't even take a committee, just somebody with a good eye for what works in this hobby and a bit of free time. 

There will always be cabs of varying quality, I think that's a biblical truth or something.  That said, I'm glad to see the brakes pumped on this one and glad to have you over on the other thread trying to work out a different approach.        

Sure I can!  Crap MAME II:  Crap Harder is a funny title.... it was intentionally titled that to emphasize just how light-hearted the whole thing was supposed to be.  If people didn't get that then I can only assume that they have a poor sense of humor. 

Yeah a well thought out pdf with bullet points.... sounds entertaining....I'm sure the newbies would really want to read that.   

No, it actually does take a committee, it gives weight to the content.  Otherwise it's just "some guy telling you what to do".

But I get that nobody else gets that, and THIS is why I stopped this discussion. 

[Well Fed Games]

If people didn't get that then I can only assume that they have a poor sense of humor. 

newbies

But I get that nobody else gets that, and THIS is why I stopped this discussion. 

 

[Ond]

have you read animal farm? The whole "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" is a phrase that demonstrates the corruption of the leadership and how they serve their own interest, not that of the people.  So the 99% would probably say that they are demonstrating against the pigs who have grown out of touch...  unless I am missing your point

So I guess what I was saying with that rather oblique reference (what's the point OND this topic is done?) is that if your going to have any sort of judging of peoples cab creations there's a risk that 'good design dogma' delivered in a negative way does not produce the claimed outcome of steering misguided newbies into good design principles.  To put it simply. some ain't as  thick skinned as others, one persons 'constructive' mocking is another's exit sign from the hobby.  But like I said from one idea, comes another.....  Some ideas sound good in theory to some folk, but before you know it you've got a police state.. K, I'll shutup now 

[abispac]

Howard, if you like CRAP, you should keep'it too yourself. Not everyone likes crap. 
But on a seirius note, being that negative can discourage alot of first timers on this hobby.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I'm a little surprised someones not selling overlay stickers to go on top of a tankstick, ie MK, SF, classics, generic ones.  Seems like there would be a market for it and it would get away from having that big red x looking not so hot and obvious.  i guess arcade art is too subjective.  The size and shape in and of itself is not intrinsically crappy.

[BadMouth]

I have not read any of this thread.  I just keep clicking on it hoping to see pictures, but there are none.

[Tighe]

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=2510879#post2510879

[ChadTower]

Thanks for digging this turd back up.  Seriously.   


Here's some fish you can microwave for lunch while you schedule a meeting for 5pm today.

[Dawgz Rule]

I have not read any of this thread.  I just keep clicking on it hoping to see pictures, but there are none.

Ditto.  The name sucked me right in.   

Such a thread would have to go down the crapper at some point.....by name alone.

Trashing CL and ebay cabs is all fine and dandy...probably well deserved.  On the flip side, reviews of cabs (voluntary or otherwise) will more than likely drive people away from the forums.  I know a good build when I see one and the forum has done an excellent job of showing the good, bad, and ugly without the need of a formal review process. 

As far as cost goes, it is relatively inexpensive to rebuild a control panel with existing components. 

Last but not least, what constitutes a good cab versus a bad cab is really subjective.  Sure, one thing is overall presentation but different design considerations are driven by different circumstances.  (admin buttons, dedicated mouse buttons, etc.)

[ChadTower]

Yep.  My MAME cab is ugly as crap and all "stuff in hand" materials but it plays really well.  That's all we cared about when we built tha tone.

[Vigo]

I haven't been able to even get Crapmame 1 working lately. Last time I tried, I think I had a 404 by page 9 and couldn't move on. Tried manually entering in the page number and nothing seemed to work until like page 23.

[Le Chuck]

This thread was the impotus of the UCAs.  Probably one of the most important threads I've been a part of during my stay her on Saint's site.  Without this there might not have been that. 

[rpgposer]

*Secretly worries that his cab will be the centerpiece of CrapMame II.

[yotsuya]

*Secretly worries that his cab will be the centerpiece of CrapMame II.

You mean hopes, right?

[Vigo]

When I make Urkelcade, I would be offended if it wasn't on crapmame II.

[yotsuya]

If you make Urkelcade, I will help print the artwork for free. I want to see this get done.

[epthegeek]

I haven't been able to even get Crapmame 1 working lately. Last time I tried, I think I had a 404 by page 9 and couldn't move on. Tried manually entering in the page number and nothing seemed to work until like page 23.

Wickedretarded was just a mirror - the original still works at http://soldmy.org/crapmame 

[Vigo]

Wickedretarded was just a mirror - the original still works at http://soldmy.org/crapmame 

Aww, thanks! this one isn't even filtered out at my work.   

If you make Urkelcade, I will help print the artwork for free. I want to see this get done.

  I have been seriously considering making this one. I think I might even have Jaleel White's autograph somewhere that I could attach to it like Maxi-Griff-amus did with Paperboy.

In the meantime, if you suffer from Urkel withdrawal, here is a great little Urkel Gem for $90. Only 3 hours left on the listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RALSTON-URKELOS-FAMILY-MATTERS-CEREAL-BOX-AUTOGRAPHED-BY-JALEEL-WHITE-/151071702984?pt=Fast_Food_Cereal_Premiums&hash=item232c933fc8

[yotsuya]

Thanks for the link.

To be fair, I don't thank anything here anytime recently has approached CM proportions.

[Le Chuck]

Myra was totally teh hawtness

[CoryBee]

  ^^^

[ark_ader]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

[Le Chuck]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

Have you read the thread?  A lot of positive things came out of this thread (which is over a year old thanks Tighe for digging it up I guess), including Howard deciding not to pursue the project, and the UCAs as I've already mentioned.  Plus you got to watch Urkel and Myra rocking out and having their first kiss, and she's passed away now and you'll leave dear Myra alone I say!  But thanks for coming to the rescue - didn't know Saint made you the po-po... or are you just stirring the pot? 

[ark_ader]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

Have you read the thread?  A lot of positive things came out of this thread (which is over a year old thanks Tighe for digging it up I guess), including Howard deciding not to pursue the project, and the UCAs as I've already mentioned.  Plus you got to watch Urkel and Myra rocking out and having their first kiss, and she's passed away now and you'll leave dear Myra alone I say!  But thanks for coming to the rescue - didn't know Saint made you the po-po... or are you just stirring the pot? 

I haven't decided.     

[ChadTower]

The Urkelcade only works if player 2 is Stefan.

[jdbailey1206]

Being one of the "new guys" I take in all of the seasoned guys advice.  This doesn't mean that I am going to take it to heart or even use their ideas.  It all comes down to what I want.  In the end we aren't mass producing our cabs.  We are just make something that is for our own personal use.   There are things I'm using that I'm sure others wouldn't be caught dead using (ie usb ports on the back for troubleshooting, extra controllers for certain emulators etc.).

What I believe you can achieve from Crap-Mame is not a look at this and don't do it(because the forum already represents that), but an almost opposite idea of the UCA Awards.  A Razzie if you will.  People can still submit pictures but you could somehow work it that if the actual winner is found they get (because it seems to be the running joke)  some representation of an Urkelcade.  Or a Sacko for those League fans out there.  Just throwing out ideas.  Like everything else, take it or leave it.

[Vigo]

You know, I reread this thread, and tried to put on a "different pair a spectacles" over it. Bottom line is Howard did step into it by comparing his ideas to Crapmame to begin with, but I think I understand some of his intentions a bit better this time around and there is some merit in them.

What I gleamed from my reread was the concept of senior members here trying to piece together something comprehensive for noobs to not fall into the same pitfalls over and over again. While I and others took this as the senior members mobbing together to dictate what is good and bad, my opinion on that has somewhat changed. I honestly see the same threads trend over and over, and I feel many of us regulars are the ones who answering these threads over and over again with the same answers anyway.

Maybe it is not a bad idea to piece together some sort of "Well Designed Cabinet Guide" Something that addresses some of those finer points that isn't exactly a "do this" or "do that" answer that can be covered in the wiki, since there is more than one route to go. It could cover a number of those topics and just give varying "expert opinions". It could be just be a document that we could update now and again, and veterans adding their two cents saying: I personally do X for reasons Y and Z.

Here is an example:

Should I remove my PC from the case before putting it in my cab?

Malenko: "I personally prefer to keep my computers in their case. Overheating has never been an issue, and keeping your computer in it's case is a great way to make it easy to pull out when you need to work on the computer or replace it completely"

brad808: "I personally make an open mount for my motherboards. It ensures that every board gets adequate airflow and is much easier to secure to a cabinet. You either end up ruining a PC case bolting it to a cab, or you have loose hardware flopping around inside. Having your computer open mounted also gives a professional look on the inside if you plan on showing off the inner workings."

Just a suggestion. Maybe someone else has a good idea on how to herd new guys in the right direction on their design choices. (and maybe avoid a few redundant threads in the process)

[Dawgz Rule]

"Well Designed Cabinet Guide"

This would be incredibly helpful and would be a very positive experience for all. 

[Howard_Casto]

I didn't "step into it" I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.  I've never saw the old crapmame or any over-the-top critizism like that as anything other than comedy with a grain of truth in there that you could actually learn something from.  It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea. 

It would have been a blast for all parties involved, but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart. 

[Monkeyvoodoo]

I'm relatively new on these boards and one of the first things I saw was the crapmame site. I enjoyed it, laughed along with it and learned from it. I originally was going to try to incorporate almost every style of control into my cabinet but after see the earlier attempts I decided against it. I like to think my plans have benefited from the "what not to do" theme of the site. I think crapmame can benefit anyone that falls into this hobby.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[Xiaou2]

I'm relatively new on these boards and one of the first things I saw was the crapmame site. I enjoyed it, laughed along with it and learned from it. I originally was going to try to incorporate almost every style of control into my cabinet but after see the earlier attempts I decided against it. I like to think my plans have benefited from the "what not to do" theme of the site. I think crapmame can benefit anyone that falls into this hobby.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

 Whether or not you benefited, which could have easily benefited from something much more positive.. or even mere questions on the board.. is irrelevant.

 I believe you would feel quite different, if one of your creations were being pooped on by others constantly.

 
 Do you openly mock your 5yr olds finger paintings?  Do you devote a website to trashing your neighbors 8yr olds sketches, using profanity, and personal attacks.. such as saying he must be on meth to have drawn this?

 Plenty of good people got trashed, by a Piece of Trash.  Plain and Simple.

[DaveMMR]

I think Vigo's got a good idea even if only to reduce the occurrence of the same answers being given to the more frequent controversial design choices. Maybe lead the new builders to a reader-friendly designed FAQ with multiple comments on topics such as:

• Four-player cabinets - worth it?
• Admin buttons - how many would be ridiculous?
• Angling joysticks - why not?
• Is a six foot wide panel a tad too wide?
• Are random stickers an acceptable substitute for simple artwork?
• How many steering wheels should I stick to the front of the cab? Four?

Okay I was being a little silly with that list, but I don't see a problem with addressing similarly common topics constructively - so long as no one uses it as a platform to go off on a tirade on either side.

CrapMAME was/is controversial but, if I may play devil's advocate, we do tend to learn through negative reinforcement (i.e. "that guy is getting hammered for his design choice, maybe I should avoid it.")  I think there's much to learn from that site.

Paige tried to do something similar a while back with this thread and, IIRC, there was a bit of derision from some posters who may have taken things too personally (though no specific projects were mentioned): http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,64251.msg642111.html#msg642111

 Do you openly mock your 5yr olds finger paintings?  Do you devote a website to trashing your neighbors 8yr olds sketches, using profanity, and personal attacks.. such as saying he must be on meth to have drawn this?

Bad comparison, Xiaou. You're not a child innocently drawing pictures for his parents and teachers. You're a grown man who offered up his designs to a public forum voluntarily. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the criticism but you put it out there for people and someone's bound to have an opinion. Unfortunately, that's the internet - you either take the lumps or you keep it private.

[Xiaou2]

I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.

 I think its funny how you try to peddle out of being wrong, by insulting others further.

It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea.

 It would have been a blast for all parties involved,

 Your not getting personally trashed daily by others on a site, so of course it would be a blast for YOU and other soul-less people like you?  ...  And why Would you understand what other people think and feel?  Your a fricken soul-less robot.   Do you even have any friends that you actually physically hang out with?!
Have you EVER had a girlfriend, and or a relationship that lasted more than a week?

 Are you sure you are not still in high school?!   

(not saying that all children are unenlightened and twisted.. but in general, maturity from new perspectives and experiences, are gained with age.. )

but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart.

So now your calling people dumb because they dont like the idea of them or other people getting judged and trashed???

 And or course, more insults...

 Quite honestly, its pretty "Dumb" to think that a stronger community, is created by trashing others.

[Xiaou2]

Admin buttons - how many would be ridiculous?

 The answers are always going to be double ended.  Theres a reason why someone might choose a limited amount of admin buttons .. and some who simply dont care, and will put them on because its more convenient for them personally.

 I like the idea of multiple perspectives are placed up for grabs, so people can decide what they want to do... rather than what APPEASES the masses of  judges  "GODS"  at BYOAC.

Bad comparison, Xiaou. You're not a child innocently drawing pictures for his parents and teachers. You're a grown man who offered up his designs to a public forum voluntarily. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the criticism but you put it out there for people and someone's bound to have an opinion. Unfortunately, that's the internet - you either take the lumps or you keep it private.

 Nope, its a perfectly valid point.

 A person does their best to create artwork.. and they are happy they did it themselves.   Its no better than a 7yr old drawing to the best of their ability..  or a beginner woodworker trying to make a simple table.  Everyone is going to be proud of their creations and share them, as that was the best they could do, and its exactly what they wanted.. and they are happy with that.

 By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

[Rick]

By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

Good to see you're still here, leading by example. While I was away from the forums for the past year+, I certainly didn't miss your argumentative, opinionated posts. If there's anything that would scare away new posters, it's forum trolls like you.

[Xiaou2]

Btw - Anyone can say they dont care for my Prototype cabinet. 

 I posted my design and pics to inspire others who may find it useful..  such as the Sinistar stick, that anyone could benefit from, as well as my wooden Star Wars yoke.. which could, and HAS, given others ideas on how to build their own.

 I also had unique solutions to certain problems... such as 4player room issues, by using buttons in different positions.

 My cab, was meant for me and my enjoyment.  I shared, not to get fame or recognizance.. but in the sake of sharing and inspiring.  As well as the good feel of a few nice comments.  And despite the negativity that Teen-Bopper has given it... Id received a LOT of positive comments, praises, and praising emails.. as well as design questions.

 Having people tell me that they dont care for many aspects of my designs... is fine with me.   But telling me that I was on Meth.. is a personal attack.   Its fighting words.   

 Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

[Xiaou2]

Good to see you're still here, leading by example. While I was away from the forums for the past year+, I certainly didn't miss your argumentative, opinionated posts. If there's anything that would scare away new posters, it's forum trolls like you.

 Rick, Im not all peaches and roses, sorry to displease you. 

 But the one thing I try hard not to do, is attack those who dont deserve it.  When I lash out, its at someone who has dished out the first (or usually several) punch(es).


 And for the record, Id say that while some may not like my post... especially when Im slapping someone rightly and they are the people in the wrong - or agree or is friends with that person...  they wont be happy about it.  Too bad.

 But I can pretty much say for Certain, that as far as people being driven off this site is concerned.. its been done by a select merry few stone throwers that pretty much gang up, stalk, and beat down every post that the un-loved  user makes.

 Even if Howards attitude often upsets me.. I dont get 20 people together to constantly berate his every post, especially if he is not saying anything non-abrasive.  I even have tried to help him with details for his projects.

 But when he says something insulting and downright wrong.. then yeah, I will stick up for whats right.. as well as to make it known to him that his viewpoint isnt quite correct  and or good.

[SavannahLion]

I didn't "step into it" I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.  I've never saw the old crapmame or any over-the-top critizism like that as anything other than comedy with a grain of truth in there that you could actually learn something from.  It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea. 

It would have been a blast for all parties involved, but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart. 

You still don't get it? I thought you would have figured out at least some of the basis for some of the issues that were brought up. Yet you turn around and spout ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that and crow about how you're somehow better than us. You really want to travel down that path? Get over yourself. You have nothing to strut for.

[shponglefan]

Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

[shponglefan]

Nope, its a perfectly valid point.

 A person does their best to create artwork.. and they are happy they did it themselves.   Its no better than a 7yr old drawing to the best of their ability..  or a beginner woodworker trying to make a simple table.  Everyone is going to be proud of their creations and share them, as that was the best they could do, and its exactly what they wanted.. and they are happy with that.

 By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

Part of being an adult on the Internet means growing a thick enough skin to not get all upset over a bunch of comments from Internet Strangers(TM).  If people are so hyper-sensitive that they can't deal with some negativity online, then they shouldn't be posting stuff to begin with.

[Le Chuck]

I'm still of the opinion that folks learn just as well from examples that are generally considered sound as by those that are generally unsound. A happy side effect is those deserving of praise get it and those that aspire to build better have a mark on the wall to shoot for.  Nobody has physically put the brakes on CM2. People talk about it but it hasn't materialized. Perhaps it's more rewarding to work on and be a part of a positive and respected endeavor?

Sure one sees the same mistakes but overall I'd say the baseline build quality has improved dramatically over the years. I attribute that to the active builder and coder base. People doing projects, which is what this site is about. Making ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up, not breaking ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- down.  I don't attribute it to a tongue in cheek lampooning of junior, uniformed, or trial efforts.  That said it won't stop the presses if it happens. It's been done, it'll be done again I'm sure.

[shponglefan]

My 2 cents on "Crap MAME".  I think the original site is friggin' hilarious.  I visit it once in a blue moon and still giggle like a girl at "Clear the runway!  Pac-Matt is taking off!"  Yeah, it's making fun at the expense of people's efforts, but such is life.

At the same time, I think it's a one-hit wonder.  Duplicating it would not be nearly as funny; the novelty just isn't there anymore.

[jdbailey1206]

I agree it is a one hit wonder.  Creating another Crap Mame, I believe, would destroy the camaraderie between users that this site has.  We all make mistakes.  But, like I have stated earlier, that's what this web site is for.  So we don't make them.  I will also agree that we are putting ourselves out there to be judged.  So don't take it the wrong way when someone gives you their opinion on it.  You asked for input and you got it.  We all know the internet is full of people who want to make themselves better by destroying others.  We are smart.  We can tell when we are being "trolled".  Just walk away.    Like Paul Anka urges...."Just don't look.  Just don't look."   

One good thing I think we can actually take away from is make our forums need to be more structured.  Its hard to see when someone comes on and posts the same thing only hours after someone else has asked the same question in an earlier post.  The forums need to be a last resort for questions.  This is where we show our work and come to be fools for a minute during the chaotic week.  Chances are the time it took you to post you could have figured it out on your own.

Finally we do need to put together an all in one for new beginners.  An orientation if you will that includes a how to.  I believe that the structure of that should follow Ond's Metropolis cab build.    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118612.0.html    Either way Crap Mame is something we can laugh at.  Should it be referenced?  Yes.  Does it need to be repeated?  No.    Too many people would take it the wrong way. 

And now ladies and gentlemen....Human League.

[CheffoJeffo]

Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

As usual, Xiaou2 beats us all to it and says all that needs to be said about his character ...

[CheffoJeffo]

My 2 cents on "Crap MAME".  I think the original site is friggin' hilarious.  I visit it once in a blue moon and still giggle like a girl at "Clear the runway!  Pac-Matt is taking off!"  Yeah, it's making fun at the expense of people's efforts, but such is life.

At the same time, I think it's a one-hit wonder.  Duplicating it would not be nearly as funny; the novelty just isn't there anymore.

While I took some offense to CM's bashing of Sasquatch's builds -- he was a pioneer and didn't have things like reasonably-sized monitors to work with -- some of his other targets were Mamey winners who thought that it was hilarious.

And, of course, the legendary meth-addicted roller-panel was funny as hell ... and at the same time had some interesting ideas.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Ok, I hadn't seen crapmame for a while and had forgotten about the conveyor belt CP.  I agree that it is an interesting idea and I understand why X2 doesn't want to take stick for putting it out there.  If it's really pissing you off, check in with the guy who did the site and ask him to take your stuff down. 

However, after seeing pics of some projects started by tweakers (meth addicts) I also can see that point of view.  it's a little manic.  I have no experience with drugs but I can see the adult humor of that comment. 

[dgame]

Some other forums link to the example section over here as Crap MAME.

Some blame this site for the Crap MAME phenomenon.

[JOKE] So I vote for Crap PCB Hoarder or Crap Refrigerator Cab mocking instead. [/JOKE]

[Malenko]

Sometimes you need to take a step back and laugh at yourself. Chad's got MDF loading, I've got a PolePosition that fell out of the truck, and Xooshe has his meth addiction.

[ChadTower]

I understand that somewhere, somehow, underneath a resurrection of Crapmame there may be a good intention.  Maybe that intention would be to use bad examples as objects in a lesson on good design.  The problem there is that the good intentions are wrapped up in humiliating somebody in public without their consent.  The original Crapmame was not about teaching design.  It was about mocking bad design with very little effort put into pointing out better ways things could have been done.  Early design MAME cabs didn't fit that guy's idea of quality so he attacked the builders on a very personal level for his own amusement.  Then he pulled in a group to point and laugh at them.  I don't care what the assumed intentions are at that point.  It's a ---smurfy--- thing to do and I have always considered Crapmame, because of how aggressively personal it was, to be one of the worst things to have ever been done in this hobby.

I would be ashamed of BYOAC if we were to ever do that ourselves.

If we really want to create a piece of educational material on system design I would be totally on board with that.  Project Arcade is a wonderful book on MAME system architecture but it doesn't address design all that much.  Design is an entirely different animal and an entirely different book.  I like the idea of laying out commentary on various design elements.  I really like that idea because of how it makes direct use of different points of view instead of filtering them all through one author.  We definitely have all of the source material we could ever need in project threads and cabinet images.  This is a good idea and can be done in a positive educational manner.  We don't need anything like Crapmame and we sure as hell don't need to be bullying people into accepting specific design directions with taunting and trash talking.

[Vigo]

I agree with a lot of the above. This in a nutshell, is crapmame. A bunch of attempts by trail blazers, some of it well thought out, some of it silly, but in the end they were all shortcomings in some way. Its OK to laugh at this stuff because there is humor in seeing just how far we have come. At the same time, I am personally grateful for these builders putting their work out there.

[BadMouth]

I'll always be a fan of UncleT's big carousel CP monster.
I can never bring myself to call it by the name on the marquee though.
(Mom's Arcade)

Say what you will about appearance, but he was able to play a huge variety of games with their original specialized controls without having to swap out panels.

The cab is no more, as he parted it out in B/S/T

[Malenko]

and his 4 gear H gated shifter lives on , on my Checkered Past cab

[yotsuya]

To be fair, the guy who created CM posted his own Frankenpanel and criticized himself.

I think CM as a resource has probably prevented a lot of bad builds. Is it mean spirited as far as language goes? Yes. But is it effective? Yes. I can only think of maybe two cabs in the past three years I've seen that in my opinion that are truly CM worthy.

Why it works, though, is that everyone knows it's one person's opinion. It's not sanctioned by this group. A new CM organized by the group and voted on by its members looks like organized bullying.

But like Chuck said, the newly re-organized MAMEYs came out of this thread, so it's not all bad.

[Hoopz]

So this is the first thread that I've read in here in about 3 weeks.  Good to see nothing has changed.   

[ChadTower]

I think CM as a resource has probably prevented a lot of bad builds.

Given this assumption let's also assume it prevented some builds entirely.  Is that good?

[lcmgadgets]

Someday (soon, I hope) I'm going to post pics of the ddr pad I built to go directly to crapmame. Because that is where it belongs. I really should have thought more about how metal tubing attached with standard bolts & nuts would look. & I was too hasty with the metal pad polishing. & if anyone ever cracked it open & looked at what I hid inside--the wiring, soldering, & the slots I cut in the lexan for the leds--ughhh. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is no substitute for patience, & that it might b the most useful & important tool of all.

I found crapmame hilarious, & a little frightening too--in the sense that I know I could (& did) very easily build something worthy of going there. I can see how it can b both useful & intimidating. Yes, its a little insulting to the builders of those cabs. Also, yes, most of those designs broke new ground, & their value as prototypes & sources of ideas is huge. Bravo to those who dared to dream up those designs, & spent the time/work/cash to make them real. They've accomplished far more than I have. Most of them, I imagine, were disappointed by the final result (I am of my pad, except for that fact that I actually finished something, finally).

Ultimately, I think crapmame has been more useful than harmful, & that 'the gods' here are far more helpful, patient, & considerate than harmfully critical or insulting. I know they have been to me.

& I think the idea of a 'guide is an excellent one. I'll b following it.

From someone who often feels he doesn't really belong here, because, again, of how huge he dreams but how little he accomplishes, there's my 2 cents. 

[yotsuya]

I doubt it prevented entire builds. I'm pretty sure more people benefited from it than ran screaming.

[DaveMMR]

I doubt it prevented entire builds. I'm pretty sure more people benefited from it than ran screaming.

If anything, maybe it prevented people from posting their builds on websites, this forum, etc.

[yotsuya]

And? I've never posted a build. Didn't prevent me from making them.

[DaveMMR]

No follow-up. Not mentioning it as a "good thing" or a "bad thing", just speculating the possible effects of the site.

[yotsuya]

Honestly, I think CM has probably scared more builders straight than anything else. I don't see it as a bad thing.

I honestly think that we've come a long way, so that none of our current builds look like anything on that site anymore. Which can only be a good thing.

[Xiaou2]

Part of being an adult on the Internet means growing a thick enough skin to not get all upset over a bunch of comments from Internet Strangers(TM).  If people are so hyper-sensitive that they can't deal with some negativity online, then they shouldn't be posting stuff to begin with.

  This has nothing to do with being hyper sensitive.    I guess you never have heard about Cyber bullying, Cyber Stalking, Slander, Libel 

 Maybe we should devote a 'humorous personal attack website devoted to you and your shortcomings, as well as slanderous attacks?


 So, what you have now... is a bunch of people, who every day have to be reminded that there is a site devoted to personally trashing them... and Slandering them personally.   

 I have no problem with people not agreeing with my designs.. but I DO have an issue with personal attacks and SLANDER.


 I really Should get a lawyer on it...   I have one in the family, and know quite a few personally... as I used to service their entire staffs office computers regularly.

 Maybe I can get the others material taken down too.  Im sure they would be quite happy about that.

[Xiaou2]

 And btw - Im not Embarrassed of my creations.   The thing was designed to do exactly what I wanted it to do.. which was easily play almost any game I chose, without swapping a thing, nor discomfort in playability of those controls.

 Looks were always unimportant to me.. and marble paper was the rage back then.. when there was no printing services available.  It was also cheap.

 I never finished it, cause I lost a job... and then my ideas changed about what I wanted..  such as learning about leafswich joys, and the idea that a sitdown similar to Unclets, would be far more comfortable.


 What I take issue with, is someones personal insults and slander, with my material on Their site.
 Especially with them possibly making money on it from advertising to boot.


 Yeah, maybe it is time to Flush the crap site down the toilet where it belongs...

 Edit...

 Anyone whos works are posted without your consent, that you would like removed, PM me with info.  Thx.

[Le Chuck]

I can't wait to see the guy suing the web host for posting a pic and a sentence that doesn't ever identify the plaintiff counter suing said plaintiff for threatening to knock his teeth out.  Especially after the violent one making physical threats posted the pics on teh INTERNETS!1!!1  I'm no lawyer, clearly neither is the above, but I'd bet a buffalo nickel that this goes exactly nowhere. 

[Dawgz Rule]

I really Should get a lawyer on it...   I have one in the family, and know quite a few personally... as I used to service their entire staffs office computers regularly.

 Maybe I can get the others material taken down too.  Im sure they would be quite happy about that.

Anyone whos works are posted without your consent, that you would like removed, PM me with info.  Thx.

Xiaou2, I actually agree with a lot of your comments on this thread but when you post this kind of crap, it really discredits you completely.  Good luck with the lawsuits.

[Xiaou2]

Dawgz,

  What exactly discredits me?

 And this is crap?!   No.    Whats crap, is people Crapping all over others on a daily basis.

 As for lawsuit, I doubt it would need get to that point.  But who knows...

 Dawgz, this is called Karma.  You think that you can just go around kicking people in the nuts and not get
any repercussions?

 Rather than keep being a punching bag, and having negative feelings bought up constantly..
I choose to take a stand for myself, and for others.

 Thats the right thing to do.  And the Right way to be.   If you dont agree.. then maybe your idea of what good Morals are, is just not quite right.

[Xiaou2]

I can't wait to see the guy suing the web host for posting a pic and a sentence that doesn't ever identify the plaintiff counter suing said plaintiff for threatening to knock his teeth out.  Especially after the violent one making physical threats posted the pics on teh INTERNETS!1!!1  I'm no lawyer, clearly neither is the OP, but I'd bet a buffalo nickel that this goes exactly nowhere.

 Threats?  I made no threats.  I made a statement, that if he wants to insult me.. then clearly he has a problem with me... so come on down and solve it man to man... or,  we can do this legally.    Well, that man to man time has past.

 Take the crap down and Be 'GROWN man'...   Or, we shall see what further transpires.  Theres what... +30 people or so that are constantly being harassed and made to feel negatively at others expense... and profit?   I think thats a good enough case to get it flushed, ..and maybe more than that.

[CheffoJeffo]

I can't wait to see the guy suing the web host for posting a pic and a sentence that doesn't ever identify the plaintiff counter suing said plaintiff for threatening to knock his teeth out.  Especially after the violent one making physical threats posted the pics on teh INTERNETS!1!!1  I'm no lawyer, clearly neither is the OP, but I'd bet a buffalo nickel that this goes exactly nowhere.

 Threats?  I made no threats.  I made a statement, that if he wants to insult me.. then clearly he has a problem with me... so come on down and solve it man to man... or,  we can do this legally.    Well, that man to man time has past.

 Take the crap down and Be 'GROWN man'...   Or, we shall see what further transpires.  Theres what... +30 people or so that are constantly being harassed and made to feel negatively at others expense... and profit?   I think thats a good enough case to get it flushed, ..and maybe more than that.

Steve, please shut the ---fudgesicle--- up.

Your threats ring hollow because, like most people, I don't see myself making the drive to Rochester so that you can knock my teeth out.

And you aren't allowed to leave the jurisdiction, play with sharp objects or talk to lawyers.

[Malenko]

I guess you never have heard about Cyber bullying, Cyber Stalking, Slander, Libel 

Man, here is where doing IT for a buncha law firms is starting to come in handy I am not a lawyer but........

Slander is oral defamation.  Since you cant hear us, it doesn't apply. Oh please dear lord tell me you cant actually hear us.

Libel is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. You would have an exceedingly difficult time proving that when someone called you a meth head, that it would be implied to be factual and not just an insult based on the poster's opinion of the quality of work and idea the work is based on. That and you are never directly identified as the user of meth on the page.

Cyber-bullying "involves the use of information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm others."  Hostile behavior by an individual, like I dunno repeatedly threatening people with physical harm when they disagree with you. If you are implying that CrapMAME is bullying you, the page is static and hasn't been updated, so that removes the "repeatedly" prerequisite. And again, you aren't personally identified.

Cyberstalking is the use of the Internet or other electronic means to stalk or harass an individual, a group of individuals, or an organization. It may include false accusations, monitoring, making threats, identity theft, damage to data or equipment, the solicitation of minors for sex, or gathering information in order to harass. Can't help but notice the whole "making threats" thing again, even with that I'm not sure how much of the law would be applied to trolling.

Couple allllllll that with the fact some of the people you'd be suing may not be American and subject to our laws and things get flimsy. I'm pretty sure suing anyone on here or Saint directly would break the a couple forum rules and therefor would subject your account to be banned. So please, do try.

And just for clarification, when you say anything that involves you "knocking someones teeth out" that's threatening them, you cant hide behind semantics. Lastly, I've already made a full site copy of crap MAME, I really hope you can get it taken down, so I can have it hosted in a country that doesn't have diplomatic ties to the US and I'll put it back up. Getting something taken off the internet is like trying to get pee out of the ocean.

[Le Chuck]

M beat me to the punch (double entendre snicker) but here's what I was working on...

Threats?  I made no threats.  I made a statement, that if he wants to insult me.. then clearly he has a problem with me... so come on down and solve it man to man... or,  we can do this legally.    Well, that man to man time has past.

 Take the crap down and Be 'GROWN man'...   Or, we shall see what further transpires.

And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

In the manner that this isn't legally a threat the crapmame site isn't legally libel.

Some facts about libel - feel free to use your own research abilities to verify the veracity of my post

1) It has a statute of limitations - many places that is only a year from publication (this assumes what you're describing is actually libelous...which it isn't - either way you're likely already SOL)

2) It doesn't have to name the person directly but they must be easily identified.  Even if I say Xiaou2 only posts under the influence of the crack rock that doesn't constitute libel because Xiaou2 isn't an identifiable person, it's an online persona that provides a level of anonymity.  If you want to out yourself, feel free, it won't stop the comments - see points three und vier.

3) Private citizens have to shows negligence while public figures must show malice.  Showing legal malice is difficult and you could easily be identified as a limited public figure on the internet what with your prolific post count and legnth.

4) Comments that appear libelous but in context cannot be construed as a verifiable fact are not liable.  In other words, jokes and hyperbole don't cut the libel mustard.

So to wrap up, it's clearly hyperbole, it's old news, it doesn't identify who you are, we have no way of discerning easily who you really are, it's humor value for me has gone from mildly amusing to ROFL based on your childish reactions and chest thumping years after the fact. 

That's not even getting into all the other things I don't like about you, I'm doing my bestest to keep those separate from this discussion.  That said, maybe Shmokes will pick up your case probono

[jdbailey1206]

What I can't understand is how this has gotten out of control.  For those who who are so proud of their work there seems to be an awful amount of protesting.  "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."  (I'M NOT CALLING ANYONE A LADY!  THATS THE QUOTE!)  If it is such a big deal than we should not be bombarded with all the anger.  The anger should be put against the person who "slandered your character" in the first place and they should be confronted and appropriate action should be taken against them.  Not us.  I would have never known who made certain things on that site until said person brought it to light that it was their own work.

I am at a loss also on how they are "profiting".  The only way they could possibly profit is through the AdChoice.  This, I understand, works on a premise of how many clicks are made through the Crap Mame website that links to the website on the ad.  (And I don't think it gets a lot of hits.)  For the times that I have been there it has been showing things that I already own.  Or websites that I have been to previously.  And if any of us are that veterened of internet users, like I know we are, we just open another window and go to where we want.  And even if revenue was made it would most likely go back to the web host.  Thus resulting in no profit on the creators end. 

In the end this site is and always will be a gigantic arm grab before we fall in the proverbial mud puddle.  Think of if as those who have fallen in the mud puddle telling us that I like you just enough not to get covered in mud like I did.

PS

Le Chuck said "Pro Boner"....

[TopJimmyCooks]

X2, instead of all this, if it's pissing you off ask the site owner to take it down or change his text on the page to something less rude.  one thing you might have a shot with is the decency of the original site owner.  A quick note saying that the pic is your copyright and you'd like it off or at least the verbiage changed to just attack the product not the maker, etc. might get you there. 

[Dawgz Rule]

What exactly discredits me?

Hollow threats is what discredits you and it continues with your continued comments about lawsuits.

You think that you can just go around kicking people in the nuts and not get
any repercussions?

I honestly don't believe I go around kicking people in the nuts.  I may have pointed out the obvious in some posts (the kid who was going to get us all monitors dirt cheap rings a bell).  By and large, I try to keep things positive and give constructive advice and opinion.

Admittedly, I do think the original site is quite funny and pokes fun at mistakes we all have made or could have made.   That aside, I do see that some of the comments posted here can be a little over the top.   It is also clear that it can drive some people away.  (Monitor kid, Dick Turpin, etc.).   However, in some cases the ribbing received was well deserved IMHO.   By and large, the community is a good community and provides sound advice.

I would even go so far to say that you do bring up some good things too  but it is often clouded by rants that seem to add no value and truly display your anger....especially to other members of this community. 

[ChadTower]

I am at a loss also on how they are "profiting".  The only way they could possibly profit is through the AdChoice.

FWIW, "profit" on the internet, in particular social media, is not always monetary.  A lot of the time it's status, prestige, traffic, or popularity.  Granted I have no idea if the law here is modern enough to consider that (plus this case would do nothing but feed some lawyers).

[lcmgadgets]

What I can't understand is how this has gotten out control.

+1

The anger should be put against the person who "slandered your character" in the first place and they should be confronted and appropriate action should be taken against them.  Not us.

Again, +1.

I would even go so far to say that you do bring up some good things too  but it is often clouded by rants that seem to add no value and truly display your anger....especially to other members of this community. 

& yet again, +1.

[Vigo]

To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it.

- Confucius

[shponglefan]

Part of being an adult on the Internet means growing a thick enough skin to not get all upset over a bunch of comments from Internet Strangers(TM).  If people are so hyper-sensitive that they can't deal with some negativity online, then they shouldn't be posting stuff to begin with.

  This has nothing to do with being hyper sensitive.    I guess you never have heard about Cyber bullying, Cyber Stalking, Slander, Libel 

 Maybe we should devote a 'humorous personal attack website devoted to you and your shortcomings, as well as slanderous attacks?

I used to run a moderatley successful website for about 4-5 years; basically being a media critic and I even attached my real name.  Every once in awhile, I would get people slagging me for my views (whether angry emails, forums, whatever).  I leaned over time that you cannot let that type of stuff get to you.  If you post your creations, opinions, etc, on the internet for people to view and respond to, you have to accept that you can invite negative responses.  And sometimes, rightly or wrongly, they can be personal.  And if allow yourself to become that insecure over what people online say, then I reiterate: don't post stuff online.

One thing to keep in mind when dealing with Internet strangers (as I learned) is this: these people don't know you.  You are as anonomous to them as they are to you.  So keeping that in mind can make it easier to let this stuff roll off your back.

There is a huge difference between your typical online flak versus actual cyberbullying, harrassment, libel, and so on.  Others have already pointed this out.  And something like Crapmame falls firmly in the former category.

So yes, I do think you are being hyper sensitive about this.  Especially when you start talking about violence, lawyering up and all the rest.  Why exactly, I don't know.  Maybe there are things you need to deal with internally and then stuff like the crapmame site won't bother you anymore.

[Dawgz Rule]

Because I can't help myself now (thank you Xiaou2) and I now realize that you are (were) the proud owner of an item on the aforementioned site...I have two questions:

1.  Can you confirm whether or not what the author states is true:  "One benefit I can see here is that you could probably ram one of those tall trigger sticks up your ass while you're playing driving games -- or maybe just rest your nuts on it. Nothing like a good nut rest."

2.  Can you confirm this one as well:  "and there is ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like this that you have to take tainted meth to come up with"

Regards,
Dawgz

(disclaimer:  I have no knowledge of any of the true owners of the items depicted on the "crapmame" website or duplicates of that website posted.   Also, no animals were harmed in the creation of this posting.)

[Vigo]

I remember back when I was in middle school. I really loved to draw and sketch. Randomly, I drew a ninja turtle one day for a classmate and she hung it on her locker. It was a Raphael, I think, and it became an instant trend among the girls in my class. Well, I never knew that girls liked ninja turtles, but within a week I had about 20 girls ask me to draw them ninja turtles to hang on their lockers. I kinda ended up being the ninja turtle kid that year and must have drawn over 100 turtles.  One day at study hall, I was drawing again and per a request, I drew a ninja turtle riding a Chocobo. Well, the angle I chose to draw this in ended up looking weird, and I couldn't quite get it to look right dimensionally. Suddenly, my study hall teacher snatched up the sheet of paper I was drawing on and called me a sick pervert. I had absolutely no clue what was going on or why he called me that. It was only after my teacher decided to parade my artwork around the classroom that I realized how my drawing actually looked since I usually draw with my nose 3 inches from the paper.  You see, because of the bad angle I drew this picture in, It looked like Leonardo was not on top of the Chocobo, but behind him. Meaning, my picture looks exactly like Leonardo Giving butt sex to a 7 foot tall bird. My teacher thought it would be an appropriate punishment to demonstrate that I was drawing hot steamy mutant turtle on giant bird action. Leonardo's gritted teeth and firm grip on the bird only made it look worse, as if he was really trying to jam it in good and hard with turtle power like the dominating ---tallywhacker--- he can be. Well, I guess the point of my story is that sometimes you might really take a lot of value in your work, but other people will see it as nothing more than bird-rape. That's OK though, because even though all those classmates probably never knew it was a big accident, they knew me enough to really not care. After that point, I drew more Ninja turtles and was wise enough to make sure what I was creating did not end end up looking like a raping reptile again. Today, I look at it the whole issue and laugh. So much so that I am willing to share that story with you all here. So much so that I am good friends with my old teacher today. You just gotta be zen about it and realize there are mistakes that are not worth getting upset about even if others laugh at you about it.

[Dawgz Rule]

 
I haven't laughed this hard since Le Chuck's dick on the nose story.  Thank you for the sharing this story.  Oh, the point (no pun intended) was also good.

[Monkeyvoodoo]

I remember back when I was in middle school. I really loved to draw and sketch. Randomly, I drew a ninja turtle one day for a classmate and she hung it on her locker. It was a Raphael, I think, and it became an instant trend among the girls in my class. Well, I never knew that girls liked ninja turtles, but within a week I had about 20 girls ask me to draw them ninja turtles to hang on their lockers. I kinda ended up being the ninja turtle kid that year and must have drawn over 100 turtles.  One day at study hall, I was drawing again and per a request, I drew a ninja turtle riding a Chocobo. Well, the angle I chose to draw this in ended up looking weird, and I couldn't quite get it to look right dimensionally. Suddenly, my study hall teacher snatched up the sheet of paper I was drawing on and called me a sick pervert. I had absolutely no clue what was going on or why he called me that. It was only after my teacher decided to parade my artwork around the classroom that I realized how my drawing actually looked since I usually draw with my nose 3 inches from the paper.  You see, because of the bad angle I drew this picture in, It looked like Leonardo was not on top of the Chocobo, but behind him. Meaning, my picture looks exactly like Leonardo Giving butt sex to a 7 foot tall bird. My teacher thought it would be an appropriate punishment to demonstrate that I was drawing hot steamy mutant turtle on giant bird action. Leonardo's gritted teeth and firm grip on the bird only made it look worse, as if he was really trying to jam it in good and hard with turtle power like the dominating ---tallywhacker--- he can be. Well, I guess the point of my story is that sometimes you might really take a lot of value in your work, but other people will see it as nothing more than bird-rape. That's OK though, because even though all those classmates probably never knew it was a big accident, they knew me enough to really not care. After that point, I drew more Ninja turtles and was wise enough to make sure what I was creating did not end end up looking like a raping reptile again. Today, I look at it the whole issue and laugh. So much so that I am willing to share that story with you all here. So much so that I am good friends with my old teacher today. You just gotta be zen about it and realize there are mistakes that are not worth getting upset about even if others laugh at you about it.

It may be wrong but I want a copy of that drawing. I can't stop giggling.

[ChadTower]

You should have seen his next drawing.  Michaelangelo was putting his hot dogs on Shredder's grill.

[jdbailey1206]

Vigo is such a perv...

[Vigo]

That is not too far off from my drawing in a lot of ways. Angle is about the same I was going for. Pretty close facial expression. And I didn't draw a three way. 

[CoryBee]

xiaou2, you remind me of a guy I know named Justin......I don't like Justin

[Le Chuck]

xiaou2, you remind me of a guy I know named Justin......I don't like Justin

I love the simplistic finality

--break--

Vigo tells the best stories

[Maximus]

[shponglefan]

I remember back when I was in middle school. I really loved to draw and sketch. Randomly, I drew a ninja turtle one day for a classmate and she hung it on her locker. It was a Raphael, I think, and it became an instant trend among the girls in my class. Well, I never knew that girls liked ninja turtles, but within a week I had about 20 girls ask me to draw them ninja turtles to hang on their lockers. I kinda ended up being the ninja turtle kid that year and must have drawn over 100 turtles.  One day at study hall, I was drawing again and per a request, I drew a ninja turtle riding a Chocobo. Well, the angle I chose to draw this in ended up looking weird, and I couldn't quite get it to look right dimensionally. Suddenly, my study hall teacher snatched up the sheet of paper I was drawing on and called me a sick pervert. I had absolutely no clue what was going on or why he called me that. It was only after my teacher decided to parade my artwork around the classroom that I realized how my drawing actually looked since I usually draw with my nose 3 inches from the paper.  You see, because of the bad angle I drew this picture in, It looked like Leonardo was not on top of the Chocobo, but behind him. Meaning, my picture looks exactly like Leonardo Giving butt sex to a 7 foot tall bird. My teacher thought it would be an appropriate punishment to demonstrate that I was drawing hot steamy mutant turtle on giant bird action. Leonardo's gritted teeth and firm grip on the bird only made it look worse, as if he was really trying to jam it in good and hard with turtle power like the dominating ---tallywhacker--- he can be. Well, I guess the point of my story is that sometimes you might really take a lot of value in your work, but other people will see it as nothing more than bird-rape. That's OK though, because even though all those classmates probably never knew it was a big accident, they knew me enough to really not care. After that point, I drew more Ninja turtles and was wise enough to make sure what I was creating did not end end up looking like a raping reptile again. Today, I look at it the whole issue and laugh. So much so that I am willing to share that story with you all here. So much so that I am good friends with my old teacher today. You just gotta be zen about it and realize there are mistakes that are not worth getting upset about even if others laugh at you about it.

 

It's like Rule 34 before there was a Rule 34. 

[jdbailey1206]

That is not too far off from my drawing in a lot of ways. Angle is about the same I was going for. Pretty close facial expression. And I didn't draw a three way. 

Golden Rule, bro.

[Xiaou2]

Funny story Vigo.

 But your teacher didnt build a website over it, and verbally trash you.. insinuating that you were on drugs.
And then have students pull up that site every so often, to further debase you.

 Vigo, I have a sense of humor, even if I dont really post it.   I can take 'friendly' ribbing from a friend.

 But for a stranger to attack me and my character (as well as many others) ... in clearly an Aggressive and Non-Friendly manor, is called ABUSE.   

 And being a child who grew up with way too much abuse in life... who swallowed so much of its toxic poision without saying a word, nor taking any action, feeling so berated, defeated, and worthless..  that it nearly killed me... I have a lot less tolerance for abusive people.

[Rick]

When did I start surfing 4chan? ---fudgesicle---.

[Vigo]

Funny story Vigo.

 But your teacher didnt build a website over it, and verbally trash you.. insinuating that you were on drugs.
And then have students pull up that site every so often, to further debase you.

Right, but those people knew me in person. I also didn't voluntarily share my work with anyone. It is far more hurtful than some stranger on some random blog that nobody really reads anyway.

Oh, and my teacher did insinuate I was on drugs, and he left the picture hanging to debase me. And I was a child at the time. I later talked to him in a reasonable manner and he took it down. sure the damage was done, but I resolved the after-fall myself without complaint.

It is intention I don't talk about the grief I had to deal with, simply because I changed my attitude to not accept that grief. You can either act like a victim, or be responsible and know that embarrassing stuff happens and deal with it in a rational way.

[shponglefan]

But for a stranger to attack me and my character (as well as many others) ... in clearly an Aggressive and Non-Friendly manor, is called ABUSE.   

And being a child who grew up with way too much abuse in life... who swallowed so much of its toxic poision without saying a word, nor taking any action, feeling so berated, defeated, and worthless..  that it nearly killed me... I have a lot less tolerance for abusive people.

I grew up in an abusive environment as well, and I can safely say that abuse from anonymous strangers on the 'net is no where near the level of harm of abuse from people closest to you.  And especially something like crapmame which is relatively mild compared to some of the things people do & say on the 'net.

Again, you are anonymous to them.  Which is precisely why you shouldn't be taking be taking it so personally.  If you go through life feeling this impacted every time some stranger hurls something towards you, you're going to have a tough time living a normal life.  Best thing to do is to find a way to deal with this type of stuff internally and ultimately let it go.  Therapy is one option (not trying to be funny or mean saying this; I've been to therapists myself and while they have a stigma, they can be very helpful).  You'll be much happier for it, trust me on this.

[ChadTower]

Right, but those people knew me in person. I also didn't voluntarily share my work with anyone. It is far more hurtful than some stranger on some random blog that nobody really reads anyway.

Oh, and my teacher did insinuate I was on drugs, and he left the picture hanging to debase me. And I was a child at the time. I later talked to him in a reasonable manner and he took it down. sure the damage was done, but I resolved the after-fall myself without complaint.

It is intention I don't talk about the grief I had to deal with, simply because I changed my attitude to not accept that grief. You can either act like a victim, or be responsible and know that embarrassing stuff happens and deal with it in a rational way.

I agree with all of this.

Wouldn't it have been better all around if your teacher had chosen a method other than humiliating you in front of your peers?  What happened to you was unnecessary and it left enough of a mark that you're talking about it decades later.  That's what we're trying to get at here.  All these years later what you remember most about that incident is how it made you feel.  How about not ridiculing anyone and repeating that process?  If we're going to do this we have an opportunity to do it the right way with the right people involved.

[jdbailey1206]

Everyone has stories of where they were bullied.  The solution is not to put what you experienced onto others.  Because you in turn are no better than those who made you feel like you did in the first place.  Do like everyone has said.  Act like a ducks ass in water and let it roll off of you or confront those who have wronged you.  It's hard.  As the person being bullied you take so much of that persons lies you start to believe them.  But that is all they are.  Lies.  Once you start to stand up and prove them wrong then you see that bullies back down and move on.  Unfortunately to someone else. 

The problem with bullying is that it is learned.  Most bullies are bullied themselves and feel that they have to push it onto someone else to make themselves feel better.  Be the stopping point and confront those who have wronged you. 

I too was bullied in eighth grade.  Verbal mostly.  But the guy that bullied me was at a party I went to when we both got older.  The problem for him was I found a small thing called the gym in between the time we last met.  By that time I added 100 pounds and was quite fit.  I didn't play his game of being a bully.  Me and my buddy just walked up to him, I grabbed his hand, squeezed with some force and said hello.  All the time staring him down with the look that said "I remember what you did."  For about the next two minutes that followed I stared him down while drinking my beer.  Knowing what he did he came up apologized for being a dick in middle school and grabbed his girl and ran his skinny ass out the door. 

I didn't threaten him.  I didn't take my aggression out on anybody else.  I essentially told him he was wrong and he fixed it.  That's what needs to happen in this instance.  Tell those who are wrong to fix it and let it go. 

This question goes out to all on the thread.  Do we even know who made the web site?  Chances are if we don't there is a reason that person is doing it.  He's scared.  Like most people who do something like this they are hiding behind the mask of the internet for a reason.  They have what I call the Oz syndrome.  Just like the Wizard of Oz they put on a huge display but when you draw back the curtain it's a frightened little man who doesn't know any better.

That's how I feel.  Now let's all get back to Le Chuck and Maximus putting us to shame with their builds.   

[lcmgadgets]

Now let's all get back to Le Chuck and Maximus putting us to shame with their builds.   

& Ond, & DaOldMan, & quizz_kid, & 1UP, & a dozen others who've id's have escaped me for the moment...

I've been to therapists myself and while they have a stigma

I always felt rather proud of myself for seeing therapists--I saw it as dealing with my problems rather than just ignoring them.

How about not ridiculing anyone and repeating that process?  If we're going to do this we have an opportunity to do it the right way with the right people involved.

+1. Yeah, I found CrapMame entertaining, but if it comes at the cost of someone being hurt....

Vigo, I think your teacher could have loosened up a bit. I'm not a teacher, but I can c myself spying that drawing, seeing what the teacher saw, & having to stifle a snort of laughter. At worst I imagine I would have quietly taken the student aside & asked him to keep such out of my class, if only to protect my personal hide... I seriously doubt I would have drawn conclusions concerning what I believed your sexual preferences were. I myself used to drawn endless scenes of space ships & submarines blowing each other to bits, but have never seriously endorsed violence as a solution to any problem (except in self defense, & even then I sometimes wonder...).

Yes, I am a coward. It's kept me alive & out of trouble for a long time.

[HaRuMaN]

All I have to say is...

[jdbailey1206]

All I have to say is...

Can this be completed by next Thursday?

[Monkeyvoodoo]

All I have to say is...

This is a common issue with Canadians.

[lcmgadgets]

 

[shponglefan]

Curious: http://soldmy.org/crapmame/6.html

[Rick]

Curious: http://soldmy.org/crapmame/6.html

Oh my. Who's the humorless jerk?

[yotsuya]

Man, the author of CM is a bigger man than the guy who cried about his project.

[Vigo]

I doubt X2 will be be feel this is "good enough". It would mean one less person he can reverse-bully.

[DaveMMR]

Curious: http://soldmy.org/crapmame/6.html

Ahh, that's weak.

EDIT: Though it'd be cool if the author replaced that page with a picture of Leonardo making sweet love to a Chochobo, signed by Vigo. 

P.S.: Maybe I should have said it before, not that it would have helped, but Xiaou's creation wasn't anything monstrous. The author, on the 'purist' side of the home arcade fence, is clearly using heavy hyperbole and is more interested in humor than strict reviews. I don't know - if something I made was on that site, I would have been secretly proud. But I find it healthy to laugh at one's self every now and again. Keeps you grounded.

[lcmgadgets]

P.S.: Maybe I should have said it before, not that it would have helped, but Xiaou's creation wasn't anything monstrous. The author, on the 'purist' side of the home arcade fence, is clearly using heavy hyperbole and is more interested in humor than strict reviews. I don't know - if something I made was on that site, I would have been secretly proud. But I find it healthy to laugh at one's self every now and again. Keeps you grounded.

+1. Esp. about the 'secretly proud' bit. Would have meant I'd at least finished something.