Crap MAME II: Crap Harder

[epthegeek]

I haven't been able to even get Crapmame 1 working lately. Last time I tried, I think I had a 404 by page 9 and couldn't move on. Tried manually entering in the page number and nothing seemed to work until like page 23.

Wickedretarded was just a mirror - the original still works at http://soldmy.org/crapmame 

[Vigo]

Wickedretarded was just a mirror - the original still works at http://soldmy.org/crapmame 

Aww, thanks! this one isn't even filtered out at my work.   

If you make Urkelcade, I will help print the artwork for free. I want to see this get done.

  I have been seriously considering making this one. I think I might even have Jaleel White's autograph somewhere that I could attach to it like Maxi-Griff-amus did with Paperboy.

In the meantime, if you suffer from Urkel withdrawal, here is a great little Urkel Gem for $90. Only 3 hours left on the listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RALSTON-URKELOS-FAMILY-MATTERS-CEREAL-BOX-AUTOGRAPHED-BY-JALEEL-WHITE-/151071702984?pt=Fast_Food_Cereal_Premiums&hash=item232c933fc8

[yotsuya]

Thanks for the link.

To be fair, I don't thank anything here anytime recently has approached CM proportions.

[Le Chuck]

Myra was totally teh hawtness

[CoryBee]

  ^^^

[ark_ader]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

[Le Chuck]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

Have you read the thread?  A lot of positive things came out of this thread (which is over a year old thanks Tighe for digging it up I guess), including Howard deciding not to pursue the project, and the UCAs as I've already mentioned.  Plus you got to watch Urkel and Myra rocking out and having their first kiss, and she's passed away now and you'll leave dear Myra alone I say!  But thanks for coming to the rescue - didn't know Saint made you the po-po... or are you just stirring the pot? 

[ark_ader]

Doesn't this subject on this thread, promote elitist behaviour in building your own cabinet, which is contrary to Saint's ideology of what this community is all about?

How many lurkers are you scaring away with this diatribe? 

Have you read the thread?  A lot of positive things came out of this thread (which is over a year old thanks Tighe for digging it up I guess), including Howard deciding not to pursue the project, and the UCAs as I've already mentioned.  Plus you got to watch Urkel and Myra rocking out and having their first kiss, and she's passed away now and you'll leave dear Myra alone I say!  But thanks for coming to the rescue - didn't know Saint made you the po-po... or are you just stirring the pot? 

I haven't decided.     

[ChadTower]

The Urkelcade only works if player 2 is Stefan.

[jdbailey1206]

Being one of the "new guys" I take in all of the seasoned guys advice.  This doesn't mean that I am going to take it to heart or even use their ideas.  It all comes down to what I want.  In the end we aren't mass producing our cabs.  We are just make something that is for our own personal use.   There are things I'm using that I'm sure others wouldn't be caught dead using (ie usb ports on the back for troubleshooting, extra controllers for certain emulators etc.).

What I believe you can achieve from Crap-Mame is not a look at this and don't do it(because the forum already represents that), but an almost opposite idea of the UCA Awards.  A Razzie if you will.  People can still submit pictures but you could somehow work it that if the actual winner is found they get (because it seems to be the running joke)  some representation of an Urkelcade.  Or a Sacko for those League fans out there.  Just throwing out ideas.  Like everything else, take it or leave it.

[Vigo]

You know, I reread this thread, and tried to put on a "different pair a spectacles" over it. Bottom line is Howard did step into it by comparing his ideas to Crapmame to begin with, but I think I understand some of his intentions a bit better this time around and there is some merit in them.

What I gleamed from my reread was the concept of senior members here trying to piece together something comprehensive for noobs to not fall into the same pitfalls over and over again. While I and others took this as the senior members mobbing together to dictate what is good and bad, my opinion on that has somewhat changed. I honestly see the same threads trend over and over, and I feel many of us regulars are the ones who answering these threads over and over again with the same answers anyway.

Maybe it is not a bad idea to piece together some sort of "Well Designed Cabinet Guide" Something that addresses some of those finer points that isn't exactly a "do this" or "do that" answer that can be covered in the wiki, since there is more than one route to go. It could cover a number of those topics and just give varying "expert opinions". It could be just be a document that we could update now and again, and veterans adding their two cents saying: I personally do X for reasons Y and Z.

Here is an example:

Should I remove my PC from the case before putting it in my cab?

Malenko: "I personally prefer to keep my computers in their case. Overheating has never been an issue, and keeping your computer in it's case is a great way to make it easy to pull out when you need to work on the computer or replace it completely"

brad808: "I personally make an open mount for my motherboards. It ensures that every board gets adequate airflow and is much easier to secure to a cabinet. You either end up ruining a PC case bolting it to a cab, or you have loose hardware flopping around inside. Having your computer open mounted also gives a professional look on the inside if you plan on showing off the inner workings."

Just a suggestion. Maybe someone else has a good idea on how to herd new guys in the right direction on their design choices. (and maybe avoid a few redundant threads in the process)

[Dawgz Rule]

"Well Designed Cabinet Guide"

This would be incredibly helpful and would be a very positive experience for all. 

[Howard_Casto]

I didn't "step into it" I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.  I've never saw the old crapmame or any over-the-top critizism like that as anything other than comedy with a grain of truth in there that you could actually learn something from.  It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea. 

It would have been a blast for all parties involved, but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart. 

[Monkeyvoodoo]

I'm relatively new on these boards and one of the first things I saw was the crapmame site. I enjoyed it, laughed along with it and learned from it. I originally was going to try to incorporate almost every style of control into my cabinet but after see the earlier attempts I decided against it. I like to think my plans have benefited from the "what not to do" theme of the site. I think crapmame can benefit anyone that falls into this hobby.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[Xiaou2]

I'm relatively new on these boards and one of the first things I saw was the crapmame site. I enjoyed it, laughed along with it and learned from it. I originally was going to try to incorporate almost every style of control into my cabinet but after see the earlier attempts I decided against it. I like to think my plans have benefited from the "what not to do" theme of the site. I think crapmame can benefit anyone that falls into this hobby.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

 Whether or not you benefited, which could have easily benefited from something much more positive.. or even mere questions on the board.. is irrelevant.

 I believe you would feel quite different, if one of your creations were being pooped on by others constantly.

 
 Do you openly mock your 5yr olds finger paintings?  Do you devote a website to trashing your neighbors 8yr olds sketches, using profanity, and personal attacks.. such as saying he must be on meth to have drawn this?

 Plenty of good people got trashed, by a Piece of Trash.  Plain and Simple.

[DaveMMR]

I think Vigo's got a good idea even if only to reduce the occurrence of the same answers being given to the more frequent controversial design choices. Maybe lead the new builders to a reader-friendly designed FAQ with multiple comments on topics such as:

• Four-player cabinets - worth it?
• Admin buttons - how many would be ridiculous?
• Angling joysticks - why not?
• Is a six foot wide panel a tad too wide?
• Are random stickers an acceptable substitute for simple artwork?
• How many steering wheels should I stick to the front of the cab? Four?

Okay I was being a little silly with that list, but I don't see a problem with addressing similarly common topics constructively - so long as no one uses it as a platform to go off on a tirade on either side.

CrapMAME was/is controversial but, if I may play devil's advocate, we do tend to learn through negative reinforcement (i.e. "that guy is getting hammered for his design choice, maybe I should avoid it.")  I think there's much to learn from that site.

Paige tried to do something similar a while back with this thread and, IIRC, there was a bit of derision from some posters who may have taken things too personally (though no specific projects were mentioned): http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,64251.msg642111.html#msg642111

 Do you openly mock your 5yr olds finger paintings?  Do you devote a website to trashing your neighbors 8yr olds sketches, using profanity, and personal attacks.. such as saying he must be on meth to have drawn this?

Bad comparison, Xiaou. You're not a child innocently drawing pictures for his parents and teachers. You're a grown man who offered up his designs to a public forum voluntarily. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the criticism but you put it out there for people and someone's bound to have an opinion. Unfortunately, that's the internet - you either take the lumps or you keep it private.

[Xiaou2]

I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.

 I think its funny how you try to peddle out of being wrong, by insulting others further.

It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea.

 It would have been a blast for all parties involved,

 Your not getting personally trashed daily by others on a site, so of course it would be a blast for YOU and other soul-less people like you?  ...  And why Would you understand what other people think and feel?  Your a fricken soul-less robot.   Do you even have any friends that you actually physically hang out with?!
Have you EVER had a girlfriend, and or a relationship that lasted more than a week?

 Are you sure you are not still in high school?!   

(not saying that all children are unenlightened and twisted.. but in general, maturity from new perspectives and experiences, are gained with age.. )

but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart.

So now your calling people dumb because they dont like the idea of them or other people getting judged and trashed???

 And or course, more insults...

 Quite honestly, its pretty "Dumb" to think that a stronger community, is created by trashing others.

[Xiaou2]

Admin buttons - how many would be ridiculous?

 The answers are always going to be double ended.  Theres a reason why someone might choose a limited amount of admin buttons .. and some who simply dont care, and will put them on because its more convenient for them personally.

 I like the idea of multiple perspectives are placed up for grabs, so people can decide what they want to do... rather than what APPEASES the masses of  judges  "GODS"  at BYOAC.

Bad comparison, Xiaou. You're not a child innocently drawing pictures for his parents and teachers. You're a grown man who offered up his designs to a public forum voluntarily. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the criticism but you put it out there for people and someone's bound to have an opinion. Unfortunately, that's the internet - you either take the lumps or you keep it private.

 Nope, its a perfectly valid point.

 A person does their best to create artwork.. and they are happy they did it themselves.   Its no better than a 7yr old drawing to the best of their ability..  or a beginner woodworker trying to make a simple table.  Everyone is going to be proud of their creations and share them, as that was the best they could do, and its exactly what they wanted.. and they are happy with that.

 By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

[Rick]

By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

Good to see you're still here, leading by example. While I was away from the forums for the past year+, I certainly didn't miss your argumentative, opinionated posts. If there's anything that would scare away new posters, it's forum trolls like you.

[Xiaou2]

Btw - Anyone can say they dont care for my Prototype cabinet. 

 I posted my design and pics to inspire others who may find it useful..  such as the Sinistar stick, that anyone could benefit from, as well as my wooden Star Wars yoke.. which could, and HAS, given others ideas on how to build their own.

 I also had unique solutions to certain problems... such as 4player room issues, by using buttons in different positions.

 My cab, was meant for me and my enjoyment.  I shared, not to get fame or recognizance.. but in the sake of sharing and inspiring.  As well as the good feel of a few nice comments.  And despite the negativity that Teen-Bopper has given it... Id received a LOT of positive comments, praises, and praising emails.. as well as design questions.

 Having people tell me that they dont care for many aspects of my designs... is fine with me.   But telling me that I was on Meth.. is a personal attack.   Its fighting words.   

 Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

[Xiaou2]

Good to see you're still here, leading by example. While I was away from the forums for the past year+, I certainly didn't miss your argumentative, opinionated posts. If there's anything that would scare away new posters, it's forum trolls like you.

 Rick, Im not all peaches and roses, sorry to displease you. 

 But the one thing I try hard not to do, is attack those who dont deserve it.  When I lash out, its at someone who has dished out the first (or usually several) punch(es).


 And for the record, Id say that while some may not like my post... especially when Im slapping someone rightly and they are the people in the wrong - or agree or is friends with that person...  they wont be happy about it.  Too bad.

 But I can pretty much say for Certain, that as far as people being driven off this site is concerned.. its been done by a select merry few stone throwers that pretty much gang up, stalk, and beat down every post that the un-loved  user makes.

 Even if Howards attitude often upsets me.. I dont get 20 people together to constantly berate his every post, especially if he is not saying anything non-abrasive.  I even have tried to help him with details for his projects.

 But when he says something insulting and downright wrong.. then yeah, I will stick up for whats right.. as well as to make it known to him that his viewpoint isnt quite correct  and or good.

[SavannahLion]

I didn't "step into it" I just didn't realize half of the members on this site consisted of sensitive little girls.  I've never saw the old crapmame or any over-the-top critizism like that as anything other than comedy with a grain of truth in there that you could actually learn something from.  It rather shocked me that some people found the site offensive and angered me that they would attack me simply for suggesting an idea. 

It would have been a blast for all parties involved, but I can only lead horses to the library, it won't make them smart. 

You still don't get it? I thought you would have figured out at least some of the basis for some of the issues that were brought up. Yet you turn around and spout ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that and crow about how you're somehow better than us. You really want to travel down that path? Get over yourself. You have nothing to strut for.

[shponglefan]

Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

[shponglefan]

Nope, its a perfectly valid point.

 A person does their best to create artwork.. and they are happy they did it themselves.   Its no better than a 7yr old drawing to the best of their ability..  or a beginner woodworker trying to make a simple table.  Everyone is going to be proud of their creations and share them, as that was the best they could do, and its exactly what they wanted.. and they are happy with that.

 By trashing others works, especially in a way that is not critical... but is based on attacking the actual persons sanity and or other PERSONAL trashing comments...   is not only wrong... but it will keep people from wanting to post anything they have made... least they might get the same treatment by the stone throwers.

Part of being an adult on the Internet means growing a thick enough skin to not get all upset over a bunch of comments from Internet Strangers(TM).  If people are so hyper-sensitive that they can't deal with some negativity online, then they shouldn't be posting stuff to begin with.

[Le Chuck]

I'm still of the opinion that folks learn just as well from examples that are generally considered sound as by those that are generally unsound. A happy side effect is those deserving of praise get it and those that aspire to build better have a mark on the wall to shoot for.  Nobody has physically put the brakes on CM2. People talk about it but it hasn't materialized. Perhaps it's more rewarding to work on and be a part of a positive and respected endeavor?

Sure one sees the same mistakes but overall I'd say the baseline build quality has improved dramatically over the years. I attribute that to the active builder and coder base. People doing projects, which is what this site is about. Making ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up, not breaking ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- down.  I don't attribute it to a tongue in cheek lampooning of junior, uniformed, or trial efforts.  That said it won't stop the presses if it happens. It's been done, it'll be done again I'm sure.

[shponglefan]

My 2 cents on "Crap MAME".  I think the original site is friggin' hilarious.  I visit it once in a blue moon and still giggle like a girl at "Clear the runway!  Pac-Matt is taking off!"  Yeah, it's making fun at the expense of people's efforts, but such is life.

At the same time, I think it's a one-hit wonder.  Duplicating it would not be nearly as funny; the novelty just isn't there anymore.

[jdbailey1206]

I agree it is a one hit wonder.  Creating another Crap Mame, I believe, would destroy the camaraderie between users that this site has.  We all make mistakes.  But, like I have stated earlier, that's what this web site is for.  So we don't make them.  I will also agree that we are putting ourselves out there to be judged.  So don't take it the wrong way when someone gives you their opinion on it.  You asked for input and you got it.  We all know the internet is full of people who want to make themselves better by destroying others.  We are smart.  We can tell when we are being "trolled".  Just walk away.    Like Paul Anka urges...."Just don't look.  Just don't look."   

One good thing I think we can actually take away from is make our forums need to be more structured.  Its hard to see when someone comes on and posts the same thing only hours after someone else has asked the same question in an earlier post.  The forums need to be a last resort for questions.  This is where we show our work and come to be fools for a minute during the chaotic week.  Chances are the time it took you to post you could have figured it out on your own.

Finally we do need to put together an all in one for new beginners.  An orientation if you will that includes a how to.  I believe that the structure of that should follow Ond's Metropolis cab build.    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118612.0.html    Either way Crap Mame is something we can laugh at.  Should it be referenced?  Yes.  Does it need to be repeated?  No.    Too many people would take it the wrong way. 

And now ladies and gentlemen....Human League.

[CheffoJeffo]

Critically Trash my designs all you want... But If you want to trash my character... then I say,

 SAY IT TO MY FACE.

 And then I will respond in kind, by knocking your teeth out, to teach you the most basic of lessons.

As usual, Xiaou2 beats us all to it and says all that needs to be said about his character ...

[CheffoJeffo]

My 2 cents on "Crap MAME".  I think the original site is friggin' hilarious.  I visit it once in a blue moon and still giggle like a girl at "Clear the runway!  Pac-Matt is taking off!"  Yeah, it's making fun at the expense of people's efforts, but such is life.

At the same time, I think it's a one-hit wonder.  Duplicating it would not be nearly as funny; the novelty just isn't there anymore.

While I took some offense to CM's bashing of Sasquatch's builds -- he was a pioneer and didn't have things like reasonably-sized monitors to work with -- some of his other targets were Mamey winners who thought that it was hilarious.

And, of course, the legendary meth-addicted roller-panel was funny as hell ... and at the same time had some interesting ideas.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Ok, I hadn't seen crapmame for a while and had forgotten about the conveyor belt CP.  I agree that it is an interesting idea and I understand why X2 doesn't want to take stick for putting it out there.  If it's really pissing you off, check in with the guy who did the site and ask him to take your stuff down. 

However, after seeing pics of some projects started by tweakers (meth addicts) I also can see that point of view.  it's a little manic.  I have no experience with drugs but I can see the adult humor of that comment. 

[dgame]

Some other forums link to the example section over here as Crap MAME.

Some blame this site for the Crap MAME phenomenon.

[JOKE] So I vote for Crap PCB Hoarder or Crap Refrigerator Cab mocking instead. [/JOKE]

[Malenko]

Sometimes you need to take a step back and laugh at yourself. Chad's got MDF loading, I've got a PolePosition that fell out of the truck, and Xooshe has his meth addiction.

[ChadTower]

I understand that somewhere, somehow, underneath a resurrection of Crapmame there may be a good intention.  Maybe that intention would be to use bad examples as objects in a lesson on good design.  The problem there is that the good intentions are wrapped up in humiliating somebody in public without their consent.  The original Crapmame was not about teaching design.  It was about mocking bad design with very little effort put into pointing out better ways things could have been done.  Early design MAME cabs didn't fit that guy's idea of quality so he attacked the builders on a very personal level for his own amusement.  Then he pulled in a group to point and laugh at them.  I don't care what the assumed intentions are at that point.  It's a ---smurfy--- thing to do and I have always considered Crapmame, because of how aggressively personal it was, to be one of the worst things to have ever been done in this hobby.

I would be ashamed of BYOAC if we were to ever do that ourselves.

If we really want to create a piece of educational material on system design I would be totally on board with that.  Project Arcade is a wonderful book on MAME system architecture but it doesn't address design all that much.  Design is an entirely different animal and an entirely different book.  I like the idea of laying out commentary on various design elements.  I really like that idea because of how it makes direct use of different points of view instead of filtering them all through one author.  We definitely have all of the source material we could ever need in project threads and cabinet images.  This is a good idea and can be done in a positive educational manner.  We don't need anything like Crapmame and we sure as hell don't need to be bullying people into accepting specific design directions with taunting and trash talking.

[Vigo]

I agree with a lot of the above. This in a nutshell, is crapmame. A bunch of attempts by trail blazers, some of it well thought out, some of it silly, but in the end they were all shortcomings in some way. Its OK to laugh at this stuff because there is humor in seeing just how far we have come. At the same time, I am personally grateful for these builders putting their work out there.

[BadMouth]

I'll always be a fan of UncleT's big carousel CP monster.
I can never bring myself to call it by the name on the marquee though.
(Mom's Arcade)

Say what you will about appearance, but he was able to play a huge variety of games with their original specialized controls without having to swap out panels.

The cab is no more, as he parted it out in B/S/T

[Malenko]

and his 4 gear H gated shifter lives on , on my Checkered Past cab

[yotsuya]

To be fair, the guy who created CM posted his own Frankenpanel and criticized himself.

I think CM as a resource has probably prevented a lot of bad builds. Is it mean spirited as far as language goes? Yes. But is it effective? Yes. I can only think of maybe two cabs in the past three years I've seen that in my opinion that are truly CM worthy.

Why it works, though, is that everyone knows it's one person's opinion. It's not sanctioned by this group. A new CM organized by the group and voted on by its members looks like organized bullying.

But like Chuck said, the newly re-organized MAMEYs came out of this thread, so it's not all bad.

[Hoopz]

So this is the first thread that I've read in here in about 3 weeks.  Good to see nothing has changed.   

[ChadTower]

I think CM as a resource has probably prevented a lot of bad builds.

Given this assumption let's also assume it prevented some builds entirely.  Is that good?

[lcmgadgets]

Someday (soon, I hope) I'm going to post pics of the ddr pad I built to go directly to crapmame. Because that is where it belongs. I really should have thought more about how metal tubing attached with standard bolts & nuts would look. & I was too hasty with the metal pad polishing. & if anyone ever cracked it open & looked at what I hid inside--the wiring, soldering, & the slots I cut in the lexan for the leds--ughhh. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is no substitute for patience, & that it might b the most useful & important tool of all.

I found crapmame hilarious, & a little frightening too--in the sense that I know I could (& did) very easily build something worthy of going there. I can see how it can b both useful & intimidating. Yes, its a little insulting to the builders of those cabs. Also, yes, most of those designs broke new ground, & their value as prototypes & sources of ideas is huge. Bravo to those who dared to dream up those designs, & spent the time/work/cash to make them real. They've accomplished far more than I have. Most of them, I imagine, were disappointed by the final result (I am of my pad, except for that fact that I actually finished something, finally).

Ultimately, I think crapmame has been more useful than harmful, & that 'the gods' here are far more helpful, patient, & considerate than harmfully critical or insulting. I know they have been to me.

& I think the idea of a 'guide is an excellent one. I'll b following it.

From someone who often feels he doesn't really belong here, because, again, of how huge he dreams but how little he accomplishes, there's my 2 cents.