ipad anyone?

[BobA]

Just out today.   I think it is cool but not very convenient due to size. Not as handy as an iphone or ipod but it may find a place.
PC World Coverage

Edit: added PC World Link

[Jeff AMN]

What a train wreck!

I don't know what their audience is for this one. It's the same as an iPhone, basically. It doesn't multitask, has no front-facing camera (for video conferences and Skype), it doesn't run OS X, Flash isn't supported (came up with the missing plugin thing during the presentation), it has SIX models to choose from, 3G is through AT&T, and it's nowhere near as good as an e-ink device for reading. So...if you want it for music, why not just use your iPhone? Same for all the app store apps. If you want it for video, shouldn't it be at least 16:9?

Who wants to pay for another monthly plan? You already have your cell phones plus their data plans, home Internet, and now you'll introduce this for another $30/month? It seems like this is something that should have been held off another year or two as it's a little half-baked. They just got 4 strong men to tug at each corner of an iPhone and called it a day.

[Jeff AMN]

I think basically what happened is that Steve Jobs invited Derek Zoolander over and he saw an iPod Touch sitting there and went, "What is this...a tablet for ants?! If we're going to build this it needs to be at least three times this big!"

So that's what they did.

[Malenko]

its iTarded. Why not just make a tiny keyboard fpr the Iphone? or a plug in the bottom that is KB,Mouse, and VGA out?

undoubtedly the iFanBoys will go out and iBuy it. Jeff already had the perfect reply to this, so I just rambled so I can catch chad in post count. 10,000 to go.

[shmokes]

I could definitely see it eating into the eReader market.  The screen may not be as nice to read on as a Kindle, but it is capable of a whole lot more.  I initially thought it would be an abject failure until they got to price.  I was expecting like $800+ (especially from Apple), but I can see it selling for $500.

I won't get one, but I have to admit, I'd love to have one laying around the house.

[RayB]

Wow. The ranters here obviously didn't take the time to read over the specs and the full feature presentation, and/or have zero experience using an iphone or ipod touch. You'd see you're wrong on almost every count except this one: Its a little too big.

I do a lot of email and web surfing with my ipod touch. It's great to be watching tv or reading and then not have to go up to my office, turn on the PC to check email. Just pick up the Touch and away I go. Web surfing? THe touch (iphone) screen is too small. So I've been pining for a bigger device I could use casually for web/email/apps, and this is what they delivered.

$499 is perfectly reasonable, seeing as how a crappy little netbook is about $299.  No one will force you to opt for the 3G model. No one will force you to opt for the data plan (completely unecessary if you use Wifi only, just like we iPod touch users are limited to). etc, etc...

Lack of Flash is a valid complaint, but there's a LONG history behind that, and its primarily based on greed and legal hurdles. (Apple wants to sell music and media and apps. Flash would open the world to free media, music, games, etc).

PS: forgot to mention: an Amazon kindle is $299 and crappy in comparison

[Vanguard]

I can see it making a nice digital picture frame when not in use.   Just sit it on a stand and plug it in.  It makes for a nice portable TV too.   The 3G version can recieve live cable TV.

[shmokes]

Lack of Flash is a valid complaint . . .

Oh yeah, that optional 3G thing is huge, IMO.  That would have been a deal breaker for me.  I don't want to carry a tablet around with me everywhere I go.  If I got this thing it would sit at home, and when I took it with me it would be for reading, not surfing the internet (not because surfing the internet wouldn't be cool, but because it wouldn't be an extra $30/mo cool).  There's just absolutely no way I would even consider this thing if it came with a monthly data plan I had to pay for.

As for Flash, at least it won't be an issue for too much longer thanks to HTML 5, which the iPhone's browser supports.  That said, it is totally inexcusable that it doesn't support Flash.

[shmokes]

It's market differentiation.  Ya gotta have your high-end and low end and the two need to be substantially different.  It's why my $19k Honda Civic doesn't have a 30 cent light in the glove box.  The Accord has a lighted glove box.  If the Civic has too many luxuries, who's gonna buy an Accord?  Obviously, given the option, I'd have rather paid $19,000.30 and had the light.  I don't have that option.  If I want the light I have to pay thousands more.

Not exactly the apples to apples, but more or less the same principle.

Also, it's been years since I had a marketing class and I've never worked in the field, so I don't know if market differentiation is the correct term. 

[shmokes]

BTW, why no webcam?  That seems insane to me.  It would be great to lounge around on the couch using Skype or iChat with a device like this.

[Blanka]

Sorry, but I just made a second new topic for it under "monitors".
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=99812.msg
10 inch 4:3 IPS is the most amazing aspect of the iPad in my opinion for arcade lovers.

[Blanka]

BTW, why no webcam?  That seems insane to me.

My thought too, but if you noticed, Phil Schiller told us that this is not the best financial tactic. If they sell a crippled iPad first, then add a webcam in the summer, and multitasking in the winter, they make much more profit. Sounds reasonable.

[shmokes]

Actually it sounds insane, but perfectly in line with the insane world in which we live.   

[RayB]

A consumer does not stand in a store looking at products and think "gee, what does 16gb in hardware actually cost?", what they look at is "for only $100 more, I can DOUBLE the memory".

That's how you make a buck. Just like selling a penny's worth of extra cola for 0.25c by upgrading your already over-priced drink to a bigger size at the movie theatre.

[wp34]

I'm rather torn on this product.  The iPad has been way over-hyped.  That goes without saying.  But I must say my iTouch is one of my favorite possessions.  The touch interface really is amazing.  I can surf the web and answer email with one hand.  No way can I do that effectively on my Windows Mobile Phone. I'm not sure if that experience will transfer well to the slightly larger form factor.  I've read a couple of eBooks using the iTouch and it makes the Kindle seem silly. 

This official Apple video is interesting.  Seeing the product in action was more impressive that reading about it.  I watched this with my kids tonight and all three were very excited.  At the same time we were all creeped out by the hyperbole and over-the-top statements.  You'd think they invented the first computer.  Check out Scott Forstall's eyes. My kids were freaked-out by him. He is seriously drinking the Kool-aid.

[Gorotsuki]

Hmmm.
I considered myself
a real gadget guy,
but this thing, and
these cell phones just
don't excite me at all.

Must be getting old.

[Ed_McCarron]

Definitely a kool-aid moment.  No one else has pulled off the tablet well, why does apple think that they will other than the mindless drones that will buy it simply because theres a fruit on it.

Oh, and the name?  Sounds like something involved with that time of the iMonth.

[shmokes]

No one else has pulled off the tablet well, why does apple think that they will ?

Because the problem with tablets has always been the interface and Apple is really good at user interfaces.  Not saying that this thing is anything like perfect, and there are some absolutely glaring problems with it, but it does look more interesting than any other tablet ever released.

[TOK]

It looks like a 1992 era iPod Touch.  

[Ed_McCarron]

Apple is really good at user interfaces.

Agree.  They steal the best.   

[jamesjones626]

F that S!

[Ond]

But can you make calls from it? or take photos (needs a camera connection kit)? no? bahhh useless!  

[shmokes]

Actually, that's what kills me about no camera.  It just makes no sense at all.  If you can fit a camera into the iPhone, you can fit one into the iPad.  This thing would be so great for Skype (or iChat if you're an Apple fanatic).  It's obviously not an oversight.  This was discussed and they decided not to put in a camera.  It's retarded, but it's definitely deliberate.  It also lacks any I/M client software.  

The only reason I can come up with is that they're afraid that any real-time communication capability this thing has will cause it to cannibalize iPhone sales.

[RayB]

So far, all I'm hearing all over the place are people picking out one feature that this doesn't have and tearing it apart based on that. So strange.  No camera! Ipod Touch doesn't, yet it sold huge numbers last christmas. Why? Why didn't people get Iphone instead? Or hey, an ipod is for MUSIC, what's all this extra crap worth paying $300-$400 for? Yet it sold.

I guess you gotta try it to "know" this will do well. Until 6 months ago I never even owned an Apple product *ever*, but never have I enjoyed and gotten so much use out of a "gadget" as I have the Touch. I barely even use it for music. LOL

The pundits even had an effect on Apple stock, knocking it down $6. I am reminded of the pre-Wii naysayers.  It's probably a good time to buy Apple stock.

[shmokes]

That's just religion speaking, RayB.  The iPod Touch has much less demand for a camera than the iPhone.  And while I'm calling for a camera on the iPad, I don't mean in the way the iPhone has a camera, I mean the way a laptop typically has a camera.  I'm talking about a webcam, not a camera for taking digital stills.

But Apple is not immune from creating flops, and they are not immune from creating devices that could be great, but important missing features hamper their success.  Please see Apple TV.

The case your making about people speaking out against the iPod touch is simply made up.  There is no confusion over why people bought the iPod touch.  There never was.  The iPhone was an enormous success, universally loved by almost everyone who used it, especially iPod users.  The obvious answer to the question, "Why didn't people get an iPhone instead," is simply that they didn't want or need the phone feature and preferred to save a substantial amount of money, both on the cost of the device, as well as on not having a $30 monthly data plan.  The case for the iPod touch is beyond obvious.  People were clambering for it as soon as the iPhone was released.  The case for the iPad is much less so.

I'm not saying the device will not be a success.  But it is certainly not the guaranteed success you make it out to be.  And your willingness to give Apple a pass on clear failures just paints you as a fanboy.  For crying out loud, you've got a tablet with a web browser incapable of displaying 95% of the streaming video on the web.  In what world is that okay?  It can't multitask.  This isn't SO important on the iPhone or iPod touch cos those devices are limited by their very nature (i.e., small size).  But this tablet comes with a brand new, custom-tailored iWork and it has a full-size keyboard dock.  It is meant to be a laptop replacement for the casual user.  But you cannot listen to music from Pandora while you work.  One app at a time, my friend.  And, again, who are they aiming this tablet at?  Why no camera?  The very people who would buy something like this are the very people who would want to utilize it for iChat and so on.  

These things matter.  You can't just say, "Look at the iPhone.  It's great, so this will be too."  Look at Windows XP.  It was great.  What did that mean for Vista?  Look at Vista.  It was crap.  Did that mean that Windows 7 was bound to be crap?  I guess what I'm saying, is take a step back.  Have some perspective.  Instead of just blindly swallowing what you are fed you might say, "You know what?  This has potential.  But Apple left off features that I consider critical.  I think I will wait until they get it right."  Remember Ray, yesterday you didn't even know what an iPad was.  You'll be okay going one more year without one.  

[Blanka]

Hmmm.
I considered myself
a real gadget guy,
but this thing, and
these cell phones just
don't excite me at all.

Don't worry you're not. The biggest problem with this thing is that it's almost the perfect hardware, with crippled software. With a Phone (locked by providers) you can accept crap like no file manager and 1 channel to buy applications. But this is actually a computer with serious working capabilities. So if there is NO FILEMANAGER, NO MULTITASKING, NO USB drive support, NO RAM/SD EXTENSION, NO FILE SHARING, this product wil stay a gimmick for the dumbest of dumbest. It's the perfect OLD people device. You're not OLD. The iPAD is for the OLD.

[GaryMcT]

I would have been more excited if it were a macbook scaled down to a tablet rather than an ipod touch scaled up to a tablet.  I'm not likely to buy one of these.  Some (potential) problems:

1) Adobe Flash may not work
2) Very limited storage compared to a laptop
3) No multitasking (besides the builtin apps like on the iPhone)
4) No global lock on the rotate.  That irritates me with my iPhone.
5) Would like to be able to teather to my existing iPhone instead of paying another AT&T fee to connect.
6) I'm concerned about the software model being like iPhone rather than MacBook.  I want to be able to freely compile stuff and run it on there without going through Apple or being a dev.

There are other problems that I've had with Apple stuff like the iPhone not doing wireless sync, not wanting to ever be connected to more than one machine ever, etc.  Mind you, I have a MacBook and and iPhone and I really like them, but it is still irritating.

[mpm32]

If you can fit a camera into the iPhone, you can fit one into the iPad.

If they can fit a camera into the nano, they can fit one in anything.

Just got my wife a nano and I don't get how they put a camera into that tiny thing.

[BobA]

It has a camera adapter.  It has many adapters.  Just another way for Apple to make more $.

It is short on memory but apparently it can share a part of a disk with a PC or Mac.   No details on this yet and no info on what adapter you have to buy to do this.

[Ed_McCarron]

Apple doesn't want you to have one device to do multiple things.  Want to do video chat?  Buy an iMac.  Want to read stuff?  Use the iPad.

Its to consume media, not create it.

[jfunk]

IMO, things they could've done to make this a killer product:

1) Camera(s) - at LEAST one for skype/ichat..  If not one on both sides...
2) Want my wife to use it?  Add in a free stylus (they make them for capacitive) and some handwriting recognition so she can jot down notes around the house
3) Side dock connector..  What if I don't want to dock it to the keyboard in portrait mode?

Things they can easily fix with a few well-timed software updates:
1) Multitasking
2) Better overall interface (does anyone else think that seeing a row of small icons on the screen just seems silly..?  They're WAY too spread apart..  They need to ditch the iphone interface for choosing apps on the bigger tablet)
3) iLife

My $0.02... 

[Fordman]

So this thing is basically a digital book, notepad and iPod?

[massive88]

I cant wrap my head around why this is any better than a netbook that costs significantly less.

Netbooks get you flash, tons more storage, webcams, USB ports, multitasking, free keyboards, more outputs, and more inputs.

If a netbook is too big (really?) people have phones to be lazy with their internet browsing, and typing emails at 15 wpm.  This seems to try to fit in between using your phone (or iPod), and a netbook, which I dont see as a place that needs any more fleshing out.  Anything bigger than a phone, I want more power, and a keyboard, both are easily gotten from netbooks.

I guess thats why Im an engineer and not in marketing.  I cant see getting a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ton less usability for more money.  

[wp34]

I cant wrap my head around why this is any better than a netbook that costs significantly less.

Netbooks get you flash, tons more storage, webcams, USB ports, multitasking, free keyboards, more outputs, and more inputs.

If a netbook is too big (really?) people have phones to be lazy with their internet browsing, and typing emails at 15 wpm.  This seems to try to fit in between using your phone (or iPod), and a netbook, which I dont see as a place that needs any more fleshing out.  Anything bigger than a phone, I want more power, and a keyboard, both are easily gotten from netbooks.

I guess thats why Im an engineer and not in marketing.  I cant see getting a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ton less usability for more money.  

I agree it is less usability for more/same money.  I see the niche as a true Internet appliance.  Give one of these to grandma and she's on the web.  No updates, no anti-virus, less functionality but less hassle as well.  My mom would love this to surf the net and check email in her living room.  If I could email her pictures of the grand kids and they would automatically show up in iPhoto she would love that as well.

I'm in higher education and am excited to see where this might lead with textbooks.  Apple is working with major publishers and seems real committed to getting text books onto the iPad.  If that takes off it will be a real game changer.  Especially if they can make it enough of a computer that students can take notes and write basic papers on it.  It needs a lot more work mind you but that functionality could be added in later revisions.

It is not a perfect device by any stretch and is not for everyone.  But it does have some real potential.

[BobA]

Collection of ipad articles on gizmodo

Link

[Level42]

I'm just laughing my balls off. All these comments while NO-ONE has even held the product in hands and used it.

Exactly the same comments were all over the place about the iPod.
Exactly the same comments were all over the place about the iPhone.

This is going to be a hit.

[CheffoJeffo]

You know what ... I see a definite market for this and, to my surprise, I think that I'm it.

I was going to pick up a netbook because i need something a little lighter weight than my big notebooks for when I go to meetings, etc.

I also do a ton of reading on my BB, but it sucks for anything scanned (say, schematics for an arcade PCB). I also do some other stuff on my BB that would better be handled by an "in between device" ... simple tasks via remote access to servers, for example.

I also loves me my portable media when I am away from the bunker ... it doesn't happen that often, but enough that I find it tiring to watch video on my BB, despite the nice screen. And how often do I check here and on various other sites where something bigger than my BB would provide a better experience ?

I love Mrs. Cheffo's netbook, but could never really reconcile the fact that I have the exact same functionality in the exact same package, just with a bigger size.

I think I have finally found a (modern) Apple gadget that I can want for what it actually is and does.

[Loafmeister]

I think a subdued hit, but a hit. IE: not the same numbers as the Iphone/Itouch, but when considering they are really attacking the eReader market, they have a good shot.

As mentioned, although they should have had some of the missing features, that's not smart from a company perspective, gotta leave room for the 2nd/3rd/future generations.  I doubt outside of hacking it we'll see any support for flash, but that's always a possibility, even for ported OS'es that multitask.

I like it for the potential for touchscreen jukebox app we'll surely see.  I'm also a fan of the casual apps and they should fit right in.  I'll probably pass on this generation though, but there is potential there.

[Blanka]

The biggest fail of the iPad is that it is in fact the best computer for people that never worked with a computer, yet it does not work WITHOUT ANOTHER COMPUTER. That is SO lame!

[Level42]

Mmmm, let's estimate the number of people without a computer that would want to buy an iPad........mmmmmmm.......

1 ?

Show me a person with a netbook who doesn't also have a "real" computer....

[wp34]

I'm just laughing my balls off. All these comments while NO-ONE has even held the product in hands and used it.

I'm basing my comments on two years worth of iTouch usage.  I'm assuming that the device will function similarly based on the information Apple has given.  It is in effect a slightly larger iPhone/iTouch with added features.

[Dartful Dodger]

When I heard about the iPad I thought this was life imitating art and Apple decided to built the Mac Wheel.

Watching the iPad demo video brought up the same doubts I had about a smart phone being practical.  Now that I have one I realize I was wrong to think it was just a gimmick.

I remember people laughing at Apple when they stopped including floppy drives with their computers.

Maybe keyboards are a thing of the past.

[ark_ader]

I saw the advertisement and I like it, but I would have liked it A LOT MORE if it behaved like those high end Wacom tablets that act like a monitor so you can do photoshop on the fly.  I fell in love with tablet PCs way back in 2004, primarily to show off our software products to clients without huddling over a laptop screen.  This iPad could have been a custom chipped powered iMac.  I mean isn't the iphone supposed to run a derivative of OSX?

Ten hours is a long time between recharges.  I would have been happy with eight.  I do not need a camera or webcam, I'm better looking without them.

I didn't want it to be a phone, I wanted it to be a laptop killer.

Oh and I just read in the UK press today. 

This kid is going to be £499.  Not £ 309 or £299. 

When did $499 equate to £499? 

[RayB]

The biggest fail of the iPad is that it is in fact the best computer for people that never worked with a computer, yet it does not work WITHOUT ANOTHER COMPUTER. That is SO lame!

Again, a 99% wrong comment. You can use the device and add media, apps, whatever to it without EVER connecting it to a computer. (That's why they have built in iTunes, iBooks, and AppStore). The only thing missing, is a way to get photos on there, but they will be selling an extra camera adapter. Ill admit that's lame. I'd much prefer an SD or micro SD card slot.

I think if the rabid Mac boys who wanted a tablet running OSX wait long enough, there will be a touch based Mac Book. This iPad is probably a first step to testing the waters before launching something like that.

PS: I've tried out netbooks and kind of like them, but using a mouse pointer feels clumsy. Show me a netbook with multi-touch and I'll give it a fair consideration.

[wp34]

This is good.

http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/167d70800c/the-ipad?rel=player

[Level42]

This is good.

http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/167d70800c/the-ipad?rel=player

They become weaker and weaker. They should have attacked the real weaknesses of the iPad to make it any fun.


One thing I didn't find out yet. Can you connect any USB to it ?

I too am a bit disappointed that it's not a full OS X machine but let's be honest: that concept has been tried a couple of times before in PC and Mac world and failed. Also, it would have probably made the machine 2 times as expensive. The iPad is a lot smaller then any "pad" computer released before it.

And I don't see the problems of it not having a camera, I don't see me using this to make any pictures !?!? Get a decent camera that is made for the job instead. What I do think sucks is that it looks like you can't keep iTunes playing a song and then switch over to any other application. (The most basic form of multi-tasking).

Plenty of weak spots, and yet I think this will fly.

[Blanka]

Again, a 99% wrong comment. You can use the device and add media, apps, whatever to it without EVER connecting it to a computer. (That's why they have built in iTunes, iBooks, and AppStore). The only thing missing, is a way to get photos on there, but they will be selling an extra camera adapter. Ill admit that's lame. I'd much prefer an SD or micro SD card slot.

I really doubt if built in iTunes can make a backup over that USB adapter to an external USB HD and do a OS upgrade. On my iPod Touch it won't, and this thing is nothing more than a big Touch.

Mac system requirements

    * Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
    * Mac OS X v10.5.8 or later
    * iTunes 9.0 or later (free download from www.itunes.com/download)
    * iTunes Store account
    * Internet access

Windows system requirements

    * PC with USB 2.0 port
    * Windows 7; Windows Vista; or Windows XP Home or Professional with Service Pack 3 or later
    * iTunes 9.0 or later (free download from www.itunes.com/download)
    * iTunes Store account
    * Internet access

Ok, so the only thing you want to do is upload photo's?
What about adding movies or music from a portable HD or your friends ZUNE to the iPad, over Wifi?
What about running an OS update of the iPad on the Pad itself?
What about making a backup of your stuff?
What about copying files to and from the iPad (woohoo, it has a lame SHARED FOLDER). We want ROOT access, and USB drive functionallity (call it Target Mode if you like) with permissions ignored after turning of the NOOB switch in the iPad preferences.
All that is needed, can be done in a cripled way by using iTunes on a different computer. Without another PC, praise god almighty that noone steals it and MobileMe at 99$/year keeps your stuff safe. If that is enough? Even my Granma produces more than 20Gb a year!

So the iPad is nothing than a comsumption device of stuff either bought at Apple, or made on your second computer. This device is not about creating and publishing (yet).

[wp34]

I too am a bit disappointed that it's not a full OS X machine but let's be honest: that concept has been tried a couple of times before in PC and Mac world and failed. Also, it would have probably made the machine 2 times as expensive. The iPad is a lot smaller then any "pad" computer released before it.

I've used Windows Tablets for years and was also hoping this would be an OS X Tablet.  You are correct that it would just add to the cost.  They are separate markets and we may still yet see an OS X Tablet.

What I do think sucks is that it looks like you can't keep iTunes playing a song and then switch over to any other application. (The most basic form of multi-tasking).

Actually this should work.  You can listen to music on the iTouch while performing other tasks.  I do it all the time. 

[spystyle]

I think basically what happened is that Steve Jobs invited Derek Zoolander over and he saw an iPod Touch sitting there and went, "What is this...a tablet for ants?! If we're going to build this it needs to be at least three times this big!"

So that's what they did.

Excellent movie reference

So, unless I'm reading e-bay wrong, you can get a 16GB flash drive for ~$10 shipped.  And a 64GB flash drive for ~$25 shipped.
...

That is utterly incorrect

[Dartful Dodger]

Apple iPad isn't new - Introduced in 2007

[crashwg]

I'm with Hitler on this one:

[RayB]

What I do think sucks is that it looks like you can't keep iTunes playing a song and then switch over to any other application. (The most basic form of multi-tasking).

Actually this should work.  You can listen to music on the iTouch while performing other tasks.  I do it all the time.  

Absolutely. What a collossal failure it would have been if a device that was primarily meant to be a music player + cell phone/pda features) didn't keep playing music through other activities. The iphone/Touch keeps music going until another app needs to use the sound channel. Makes sense, no?

And further, on the issue of "multitasking", Apple's own apps do a great job of using "save states", so you CAN go back n forth between apps. For example, I just started Facebook and opened the status edit window. Then I went back to "home" app menu and selected Mail. I navigated to an email and opened it and selected text in it to copy. Hit Home button again, back to app menu, select Facebook. Oh look, it started in the Status edit window still! I hit Paste and there's my text from the email. It's all these third-party apps where the developer was too lazy to implement save states that the app will start up from the beginning again.

So its not real multitasking, but its pretty close. The only downside on a screen the size of an ipad will be not being able to have something like an IM chat window open at the same time as other stuff... but oh well.

[SavannahLion]

Oh, and the name?  Sounds like something involved with that time of the iMonth.

I got bored reading at about this point so if someone pointed this out, my apologies.

That's a Mad TV sketch. Back in 2005 or so I think.

[Samstag]

So its not real multitasking, but its pretty close.

Yeah, it's windows 3.1 close.

Save states are better than nothing, but that means any time-consuming tasks (like waiting for the cheesecake thread to load) can't be done in the background while you do something else.  I guess they can pull out their iphone or ipod to kill time.

Maybe by the third generation the ipad will have figured out what it wants to be when it grows up.

[Level42]

Crashwg: that was actually pretty funny. Would have been better with the voices spoken in, but still OK.

One of my favorite movies by the way. It truly shows the madness of it all (I meant the Nazi's, not the iPad ).

But I still think there's a good market for it. The "geek" factor alone is huge. What if you go to visit friends or family and show your the photo's of your last holiday on it. Yes, you will impress people. That's how this works.

I also apologize for my lack of iPhone knowledge. I know plenty of people with one but never actually worked with one. I'd love to have one, but since I already have a company phone that costs me 0, I'm not going to also buy an iPhone.

Still, I love my Mac Mini. Yesterday I was looking for some important files. Couldn't find them anymore where they were and Spotlight couldn't trace them anymore either (= they were gone). I probably removed them by mistake. So for the first time I used Time Machine to get back the files. I hadn't tried it before, but it's such a no-brainer, it's brilliant. Found the files on a back-up of november and restored them. It even managed to put it back into the right folder even though I had actually moved that folder from the desktop to the My Documents folder. Just a couple clicks and I'm back in business.

That's where Apple scores IMHO. Time Machine is something you start and forget about. Sure there are loads of back-up software for PC's, but not as elegant.
OH, I'm just reading an article about a local (pretty large) hospital where IT-guys are relentlessly trying to track down and isolate the Conficker virus. The article: "this is a lot of work and costs lots of time" Duh.
It also hastily states that it will not affect the care in the hospital....u-huh....

Anyway, back to the iPad !

[shmokes]

It's all these third-party apps where the developer was too lazy to implement save states that the app will start up from the beginning again.

And here I was blaming Apple.  How silly of me.  I owe Apple an apology.

[Blanka]

The "geek" factor alone is huge.

I doubt the iPad will have one. Macs before iPod had it. The first iPods had it. But today when bankers, lawyers, contractors, weed-dealers and even your MOTHER buys an iPhone because its so easy, and the iPad is perfect for computer-noobs, this wil not have a geek factor. Sorry geeks. Go buy a real NES.

[Level42]

Maybe I used the wrong word (Geek)....

Since there is no similar product yet, it certainly _will_ draw people's attention.

And yes my dad forward the Apple e-mail to me and said he liked it very much. And he's a PC user
I don't see anything wrong with it.

What I wonder: Will it's iTunes play music through an Airport Express ? I mean, I'm not going to seriously listen to music through the built-in speakers or head-phones....it would be a great selling point for me. Now I have to keep the Mini running to play my iTunes music. Would be great if the iPad could do it and it would be an unforgivable omission if it can't.

[darcyp]

i just don't know what i would want with an ipod touch that can't fit in my pocket.
On the other hand, i have friends who are graphic designers, and this would be perfect for them to bring into a meeting to show clients their work.
there is a market for it, i just know that i'm not in it.

[shmokes]

I'd love to have one sitting around my house for casual internet browsing, reading the news, checking the weather, checking stocks (if I actually owned any), checking movie times, reading blogs, checking google maps for stuff.  You know . . . casual internet stuff where I really don't need a full-on computer.  It's way more portable and comfortable than a laptop when you're not actually sitting at a table.  And so on.

With that said, I have no intention of getting one of these any time soon.  For one, some of its missing features are deal breakers for me, unfortunately.  For two, I'm too poor.  But I hope both of those situations will be remedied within the next year or two.  Cos I can definitely see a place in my life for a device like this.

[wp34]

I'd love to have one sitting around my house for casual internet browsing, reading the news, checking the weather, checking stocks (if I actually owned any), checking movie times, reading blogs, checking google maps for stuff.  You know . . . casual internet stuff where I really don't need a full-on computer.  It's way more portable and comfortable than a laptop when you're not actually sitting at a table.  And so on.

With that said, I have no intention of getting one of these any time soon.  For one, some of its missing features are deal breakers for me, unfortunately.  For two, I'm too poor.  But I hope both of those situations will be remedied within the next year or two.  Cos I can definitely see a place in my life for a device like this.

That's what I use my iTouch for.  It is real handy for quick look-ups.  There is an IMDB app that I use all the time when we are watching TV.  I also use it to check email if the kids are on the main computer.  That being said I don't expect to buy an iPad either.  If I could afford it (and wanted a second computer) I would probably get a Netbook or refurbished MacBook just because it would do more for a little more money.  But that may change over time as the iPad is given new features..

[Dartful Dodger]

I got bored reading at about this point so if someone pointed this out, my apologies.

That's a Mad TV sketch. Back in 2005 or so I think.

Back in 2007.  I even included the YouTube clip.

Apple iPad isn't new - Introduced in 2007

[spystyle]

Apple's next device will be called the "Tampod" I think...

[shmokes]

On the other hand, i have friends who are graphic designers,

So do I and they're pissed that it doesn't come with a stylus for wacom-style drawing.

 

It seems strange for them to be angry about that.  They can just buy a stylus for it.  Considering the focus of the device (probably a smart focus considering the success tablets have had so far), it seems like including a stylus would not just be an unnecessary expense, but would also encourage developers to make programs expecting users to have a stylus, something Apple obviously doesn't want.  If a small subset of users need a stylus, let them fork over the extra money for one.  Shrug.

edit: spelling

[Samstag]

On the other hand, i have friends who are graphic designers,

So do I and they're pissed that it doesn't come with a stylus for wacom-style drawing.

 

It seems strange for them to be angry about that.  They can just by a stylus for it.  Considering the focus of the device (probably a smart focus considering the success tablets have had so far), it seems like including a stylus would not just be an unnecessary expense, but would also encourage developers to make programs expecting users to have a stylus, something Apple obviously doesn't want.  If a small subset of users need a stylus, let them fork over the extra money for one.  Shrug.

I think most graphic artists wouldn't be satisfied with using a stylus on the ipad.  A wacom pad can sense the stylus before it even touches the screen (giving you instant feedback about positioning before you start drawing) and can sense how hard you press to allow you to adjust stroke width and other features on the fly like you would with a brush.

I have a wacom interface on my thinkpad tablet so I can do some neat things with it, including turning my pen upside down and using the eraser end to delete things.

[shmokes]

Well, okay, but is your Thinkpad a touchscreen?  In order for Apple to make this work they'd have to use a screen with both a digitizer (for the pen) and capacitive touch hardware (for the finger).  So, I guess if the stylus made for a capacitive screen won't actually serve the purpose I initially thought, I suppose I can see  why graphic designers might be more disappointed.  But that still only goes so far.  The idea that Apple would include both technologies in a device like this, substantially increasing the price of the device, just to make a very small subset of the market happy is crazy.  It's crazy, of course, because the price increases for a feature that almost nobody wants would make a very large subset of the market unhappy.  And based on the sales of tablet PCs, I think it's safe to say that not a lot of people are clamoring for pen-based input.  

The iPad has a lot of shortcomings.  Lack of a digitizer is not one of them, IMO.  And FWIW, my wife is a professional graphic designer.  

[RayB]

I don't like this idea that 1 product must fit all markets. THat's just silly.

THere's a tablet out there aimed specifically at artists already, and it's made by, guess who, Wacom:
http://www.wacom.com/pendisplays/

Netbooks are neat, but the deal breaker for me has always been the mouse pointer and "sliders" type of ui.

[Blanka]

On the other hand, i have friends who are graphic designers, and this would be perfect for them to bring into a meeting to show clients their work.

I like to travel light without bags. If it was the size of a DVD case, it would fit in my inside pocket of my jacket. Now it won't. And for serious presenting, i rather have it capable of full-hd playback over HDMI, then like doing cosy happy campingw with my clients in a 70ies sitting pit, blowing the water pipe, because the screen is so damn tiny so we have to cuddle together.

[Samstag]

Well, okay, but is your Thinkpad a touchscreen?

Mine isn't, but having touch and digitizer was an option.  I think it would have added another $50, but it still would have been in the middle of the ipad price range.

I don't like this idea that 1 product must fit all markets. THat's just silly.

The problem with that is that it doesn't do any one thing better than cheaper alternatives.

[AtomSmasher]

Since there is no similar product yet, it certainly _will_ draw people's attention.

Looks like a lot of companies are planning very similar tablets, several of which will be released around the same time as the Ipad. 
Heres a nice comparison: http://phandroid.com/2010/01/29/android-tablets-vs-apple-ipad-comparisonreview/

[syph007]

I find talking about apple products with people, feels like a religion debate.  I never understood why people buy any of their products, but to each his own.  But talking to my brother in law about why he likes them, he can't actually explain why, I think he just buys what he's advertised to.  So from my point of view, this image parody applies.

[shmokes]

I find talking about apple products with people, feels like a religion debate.  I never understood why people buy any of their products, but to each his own. 

I suspect that you feel like you're having a religion debate because you take a religion-like standpoint on the issue.  You dismiss Apple products based on their Apple-ness.  This is no different conceptually than people who buy products simply because they are made by Apple. 

Anybody who cannot understand why someone would legitimately want an iPhone or an iPod is simply getting religious about it.  I mean . . . seriously . . . you don't think that Apple brought any innovation to the mobile music player market?  Are you mad?  You don't think Apple brought any innovation to the mobile phone market?  You don't think Apple brings innovation to the OS market (Windows 7's new amazing taskbar is an improved Mac OS Dock)?  It's kind of asinine to make fun of people who mindlessly buy Apple products if you are a person who mindlessly refuses to buy their products.  It's the same thing.

[Blanka]

Oops!

[Level42]

Amen, and can we keep this an iPad discussion please. Lot's of other places to vent your love/hate for Apple or any other brand.

I bought 3 of their products with my mind fully working, thank you. I enjoy using them every time.  But I'm _not_ religious about it.

[RayB]

Well said Shmokes.

I've never bought any Apple product EVER, but after getting an Ipod Touch for my birthday I'm totally "sold" on it and the iphone.  I've compared sound quality between an Ipod and a Dell Axim, a Samsung mp3 cel phone, and a cheap generic mp3 player (hooked up to a newish Acura's stereo system). The Ipod won hands down.  I won't be switching to Macs and worshiping Steve Jobs any time soon, but I give credit where credit is due (which has won me accusations of "Fanboy" in this very thread). 
 

[wp34]

Since there is no similar product yet, it certainly _will_ draw people's attention.

Looks like a lot of companies are planning very similar tablets, several of which will be released around the same time as the Ipad. 
Heres a nice comparison: http://phandroid.com/2010/01/29/android-tablets-vs-apple-ipad-comparisonreview/

That is rather interesting.  I did not know Android was being ported to the Tablet format.  Makes a lot of sense.  One of the things that intrigues me about this form factor is the "instant on" functionality you don't get with Windows or OS X.  I've not used Android but I would have to assume it functions similarly.  Glad to see there will be some competition for Apple.

[Samstag]

An android tablet would probably not be much different from the ipad.  The android would have multitasking and probably flash, along with a lower price.  The ipad would have a much larger app library to choose from.

My wife surprised me last night when she said she wants an ipad.  She can't explain why she wants it or what she would do with it.  So I'm starting to see a market for these things.  They'll probably replace netbooks for some people even though they're less functional.  For others (probably including my wife) they'll end up in a closet next to the netbook.

[Malenko]

market for these things.  They'll probably replace netbooks for some people even though they're less functional.  For others (probably including my wife) they'll end up in a closet next to the netbook.

so what youre saying is, you have a netbook you wanna sell me on the cheap cheap?

[Level42]

...  One of the things that intrigues me about this form factor is the "instant on" functionality you don't get with Windows or OS X.

OS X goes into and out of sleep in about 2 seconds. I've never seen Windows do it like that. Another big plus for me. I want to use my computer as my TV. Instant on, instant off. In fact, my TV takes longer to start than my Mac.

What I'd like is f.i. when working on PCB's or machines. Now I usually print out schematics & stuff. But I've only got an A4 printer. It would be great to have the pad near your working place, being able to simply go around on the schematics, zooming in and out quickly etc.

[Samstag]

market for these things.  They'll probably replace netbooks for some people even though they're less functional.  For others (probably including my wife) they'll end up in a closet next to the netbook.

so what youre saying is, you have a netbook you wanna sell me on the cheap cheap?

Are you interested in the original 7 inch Asus eeepc?  It makes the modern netbooks look like screaming supercomputers.  It does a decent job of keeping dust off a small section of shelf, though.

...  One of the things that intrigues me about this form factor is the "instant on" functionality you don't get with Windows or OS X.

OS X goes into and out of sleep in about 2 seconds. I've never seen Windows do it like that.

Never?  2 seconds sounds about right for Windows to enter or exit sleep in my experience.  Once in a while it's more like 4 or 5.  Are you confusing sleep with hibernate?

[Level42]

Well not on my laptop running XP. Maybe things changed with Windows Vista or 7, but I stepped out of the PC world about when Vista appeared. And my boss doesn't want to upgrade (and correct he is, as that would make the ultra-slow hardware on our laptops even slower).

Hybernate/sleep. What's the difference ? I often select "Stand-by" when I shut down my laptop (Because it takes ages to boot). Is that sleep or hybernate ?

On OS X there is just Sleep. (actually in Dutch they use the word slumber, not sure what the English OS X term is).

The funny thing is that I do not know anyone that actually has a netbook.... but I've heard many people around me talk about the iPad already. And no I didn't start about it....

[Blanka]

Are you confusing sleep with hibernate?

Mac sleep =Windows hibernate (sleep is the english OSX word)
Windows sleep = Mac screensaver

There are little differences though. I think you can put off a Windows machine in hibernate (it moves ram to disk), but you can't shut down a mac in sleep (only thing drawing power is RAM). Energy-wise, sleep is similar to hybernate. Its a very low power mode. On the other hand, a mac boots faster than a windows machine restarting from hibernate, so you can also put shut down against hybernate.
Fun to know: Virtual BOX is faster at making a save state of Windows and restoring it, than both booting/shut down OSX or hybernating Windows. Guess both Apple and MS can learn from that procedure!

[protokatie]

Are you confusing sleep with hibernate?

Mac sleep =Windows hibernate (sleep is the english OSX word)
Windows sleep = Mac screensaver

Oddly enough I caught this thread right after ready about the S0-S4 ACPI stuff (as I am on my brand spanking new netbook and I wanted to refresh my info on it).

As of Vista and beyond:

Mac Sleep = Windows Hybrid Sleep*
Windows Sleep = Whatever S1-S3 that the hardware supports = The Mac doesn't do those low power modes anymore (except S3 which is used in Hybrid Sleep on Windows as well).

* Hybrid sleep (or Mac Sleep) is S3 mode (CPU turned off, Ram refreshed (in a lower power slower mode), all periferals powered off PLUS the RAM is copied to the Hdd ala Hibernate. The copying of RAM the Hdd is ONLY in case you lose power to keep the RAM refreshed, otherwise the system will come out of hybrid sleep/mac sleep using RAM.

as per what I read, MAC OS no longer supports a normal sleep, nor does it support a normal hibernate, only the hybrid of the two (which kinda sucks, as I treat my laptop PC in hibernate as a computer that will hold its battery power if the power goes out while plugged in as it will be off.  Also a computer in Hybrid sleep will continue to drain power until it is forced to "hibernate" when the battery gets too low.) IE I prefer a specific hibernate mode myself.

[CheffoJeffo]

What I'd like is f.i. when working on PCB's or machines. Now I usually print out schematics & stuff. But I've only got an A4 printer. It would be great to have the pad near your working place, being able to simply go around on the schematics, zooming in and out quickly etc.

+1

[RayB]

What I'd like is f.i. when working on PCB's or machines. Now I usually print out schematics & stuff. But I've only got an A4 printer. It would be great to have the pad near your working place, being able to simply go around on the schematics, zooming in and out quickly etc.

+1

OOOOH! Yes! Seeing as how most schematics online are in PDF. Excellent idea! Last time I wired up a cocktail I had Bob Robert's JAMMA pinout table open for reference on my Ipod Touch.

[protokatie]

Well, I got drunk and ordered one a few days ago. If I hadn't been drunk I would have just waited for an Android based one to come out, but meh. I'll wait and see what the itampad is like when I get mine in early April.

For some odd reason, I feel like my computer IQ just took a hit tho. A pad is something I would want to be able to tweak with alot, but Apple has a very closed system, so very little room for messing around with (IE no multitasking, no file system, no flash???, no Samba (not a suprise there), and nothing like a batch file)...

[polaris]

Well, I got drunk and ordered one a few days ago. If I hadn't been drunk I would have just waited for an Android based one to come out, but meh. I'll wait and see what the itampad is like when I get mine in early April.

For some odd reason, I feel like my computer IQ just took a hit tho. A pad is something I would want to be able to tweak with alot, but Apple has a very closed system, so very little room for messing around with (IE no multitasking, no file system, no flash???, no Samba (not a suprise there), and nothing like a batch file)...

jailbreak!?

[RayB]

Interesting. When regular guys get drunk, they end up sleeping with the fat chick. But when a geek gets drunk, he buys an Ipad!

[polaris]

Interesting. When regular guys get drunk, they end up sleeping with the fat chick. But when a geek gets drunk, he buys an Ipad!

nah, i bet she sleeps with fat chicks too 

[t3design]

ordered a 3G iPad the day ordering opened.

if you guys don't want the fat chick, send her to me.....

[protokatie]

I thought I WAS the fat chick! 155LBS et al... 

[shmokes]

The no Samba thing just makes me scratch my head.  The thing has WiFi.  It would be dramatically more attractive if i could stream media to it from my server.

[RayB]

OK sorry for the gender assumption... When a woman gets drunk, she wakes up next to some strange guy; when a geek-woman gets drunk she orders an Ipad.
 

I can't wait to try one. I could never buy one without a hands-on.

[patrickl]

The no Samba thing just makes me scratch my head.  The thing has WiFi.  It would be dramatically more attractive if i could stream media to it from my server.

Apple just want to shove their monopoly down your throat.

Maybe it can connect to some streaming Quicktime virus though?

[Level42]

Yeah, I'm so glad that Microsoft is not ever trying such practices.....
 

[shmokes]

For real . . . In fact I think that my wife would likely have a Zune HD or an iPod Touch right now if either of them could stream media cos I'd have got her one as a gift.  Either are perfectly capable of it hardware-wise. 

[patrickl]

Oh come on. Microsoft is not nearly as bad (anymore) as Apple. If you don't like Microsoft, what's wrong with one of the open Unix versions (including Android)?

BTW As far as I know both the Zune HD and iPod Touch CAN stream media.



More on topic, I'd love to have one of these (Star Trek) pads, but I'll wait till the Android/Chrome and Slate versions are out. For now I'd say a netbook with 10" screen (which I have already) seems the better option for me.

Also, Microsoft has been working for a while on it's (now called) Courier "booklet" device with two 7" displays. Like a big Nintendo DS. Not sure if that's practical, but it would make it more portable. When it's really portable and if it does work well, it could even replace my Livescribe pen and journal.

I have an e-ink ebook reader device. This is pretty cool for reading books. It's a tad slow, but in return the battery lasts a lot longer than on a LCD type device. It's also much better readable in the sun.

[RayB]

I dont know how, but the Touch streams audio to sound/theatre systems via bluetooth and maybe other method, and I was told it can do the same with video.

[lilshawn]

you know, when i first saw the iPhone, I thought to myself... "self..." (cause that's how i talk to myself) i said,

"I wish this iPhone was a little bit clunkier...i mean...it still fits in my pocket."

and here we are.

and you just know they are gonna put a huge ass chrome back on it, and you will be blinding people with it while your walking down the street during a sunny summer day. 

[Epyx]

Pretty sad but the main reason this device intrigues me is as an E-Book reader and portable media device.

It would be a nice alternative to a laptop for those functions...let's face it...laptops were not designed as guy friendly devices...the heating up of the nether regions is a PITA.

[shmokes]

BTW As far as I know both the Zune HD and iPod Touch CAN stream media.

Not really.  For example, look at this tutorial for setting up streaming on the iPhone.  




That's hardly a serious option (and even then no Divx).  I'm talking about official support (we were specifically talking about Samba, but DLNA would be perfectly fine).

[patrickl]

Pretty sad but the main reason this device intrigues me is as an E-Book reader and portable media device.

It would be a nice alternative to a laptop for those functions...let's face it...laptops were not designed as guy friendly devices...the heating up of the nether regions is a PITA.

It would be a replacement for a netbook at best and they don't heat up that much do they? At least I never noticed it much on mine.

In fact I wonder about having to hold the thing all the time as it's biggest drawback. I have a 5" tablet device now and I often find it quite annoying that I cannot set it down and still ready it properly. Luckily it comes with a detachable keyboard which (when attached) lets it stand on that (like a tiny netbook).

[patrickl]

BTW As far as I know both the Zune HD and iPod Touch CAN stream media.

Not really.  For example, look at this tutorial for setting up streaming on the iPhone.  


That's hardly a serious option (and even then no Divx).  I'm talking about official support (we were specifically talking about Samba, but DLNA would be perfectly fine).

I was thinking about a paid method to get it to work though. I remembered seeing a news artile (on a Smartphone website) about a program in the appstore that let you connect to a Windows Home Server and watch video's on your iPhone.

AFAIK, you can also use TVersity and if you have a Mac there is some streaming software on that too that you can connect too.

:edit: How about Air video for example?
:edit2: or iMediaSuite?

the Zune HD is still pretty new, but I think it can stream video's too. Probably not from a Mac though.

[shmokes]

Hmm . . . I'm not really interested enough to look into it.  Regardless, the absence of SMB and/or DLNA is surely deliberate.  Both companies know that the devices have a lot of potential as media players, and the more they can control how that media gets to the device the more money they stand to make.

[patrickl]

Hmm . . . I'm not really interested enough to look into it.  Regardless, the absence of SMB and/or DLNA is surely deliberate.  Both companies know that the devices have a lot of potential as media players, and the more they can control how that media gets to the device the more money they stand to make.

Geez, first you make me look it up and then you're not interested, lol.

The Zune is getting new firmware now and then and I think the last release they gave it some media streaming functions built in. Indeed not from Samba/CIF file servers, but through media servers. Which makes a lot more sense too.

Why on earth would you even want to use samba? Connecting to a media server makes much more sense. If you want to download files, the Zune HD allows you to sync over WiFi. if you want to stream media, you connect to a media server.

I don't know what kind of streaming an iPhone has built in, but the Zune HD sure has it.

[shmokes]

Geez, first you make me look it up and then you're not interested, lol.

Hey . . . I responded before your edit.   

[shmokes]

The wonderful thing about Samba is that you don't have to do anything.  You just have your files sitting on a hard drive, and your media server sees and plays them.  I don't want to have Windows Media Player open and running on my computer at all times in order to stream.  More to the point, I might not even have the ability to have Windows Media Player open, for example if my media is sitting on a NAS rather than a Windows computer.  Plus, I've tried the streaming from Windows Media Player to my PS3 and it doesn't work well at all.  It grabs all my media and throws it together into a giant mess.  It refuses to organize based on my folder structure.


Edit:

Both of those programs look interesting, and go a long way toward what I would want.  But the first one requires a server running the software to transcode the media a la Tversity.  And the second won't do Divx.  It's still better than I thought it was.

[patrickl]

The wonderful thing about Samba is that you don't have to do anything.  You just have your files sitting on a hard drive, and your media server sees and plays them.  

True.

I don't really care much for streaming media (files or transcoded video), but with a Tablet device I would want to be able to pick up eBooks from the file server. I guess that would be another reason to wait for newer devices and see if they could access Samba shares.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Honestly i don't see it as useful for me or most people and it does feel like apple is just trying to make more money without doing much in my eyes.

Id rather get the chinese ipad close it looks like an iPad and runs win7 a 10" screen and has the webcam on the front it's great but doesnt have a multi touch screen which would rock for win7 but still its ALOT cheaper than the iPad and more functional.

This isn't the P88 im talking about i forget what this one is called.

[patrickl]

Maybe an Asus Eee PC T91MT would be an alternative. It's a tablet netbook. So you can either fold it into a small tablet or use it as a netbook.

[jfunk]

Now HERE'S a reason to buy an iPad 

iCade iPad dock

HA!

[shmokes]

I suspect he knows that . . . everyone goes to ThinkGeek on April 1 to see what new products they'll be carrying.

[patrickl]

I kinda like the Pad Dock



It's a big magnifying glass that turns your iPhone into an iPad. Lol. (BTW YES I do understand that this is a joke)


Why does that iCade have to be an April fools joke though? Or rather, it probably is an april fools joke, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. MAME  for the iPhone does exist and I did the same with my iPAQ to turn it into PocketGalaga (long before iPhones even existed)

[jfunk]

Yeah, I knew...  Thinkgeek is my first stop every 4/1 

My little brother COMPLETELY fell for the wireless extension cords one year, though..  *sigh*

[Blanka]

I think TG really should make this.

- The iPad is useless without Mame
- The iPad needs buttons (who wants olive-oil fingers on that beautiful IPS screen?)
- IPS means perfect viewing angles when put in portrait!
- It's 4:3 aspect. How retro can a modern gadget be?
- 99% will jailbreak the iPad (unless multitouch-clit Playboy-ebooks are APROVED by apple), so installing iPadMame is a piece of cake.
- It looks cool, the price is right, and a good profit must be possible

[wp34]

Why does that iCade have to be an April fools joke though? Or rather, it probably is an april fools joke, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. MAME  for the iPhone does exist and I did the same with my iPAQ to turn it into PocketGalaga (long before iPhones even existed)

That is sweet!  I used an iPaq for years and never thought of something like that. 

[protokatie]

Well I got mine today. Pretty much like what I expected, a little bit unwieldy tho. The bigger screen makes it a lot easier to type than the iphone. I just wish it supported flash. 

[AcidArmitage]

netbooks can also stand by themselves hahah...

[protokatie]

Yeah, I have a Dell Mini 10 and it is really cool. Flash support as well as multiple monitor support to boot. I would never go anywhere without my little netbook. The iPad is still kinda neat tho.

[patrickl]

I read that a guy (a professional line sitter) was first in line for an iPad and waited in line for 5 days to get it first. Turned out he forgot to reserve one so he had to wait till the end of the line ... and then they were all sold out. Lol.

[hyiu]

why sit outside for 5 days ?

my sis-in-law ordered one online, and it UPS to his place that morning...
no waiting... no fuss...

once I get a chance to play with it, I'll let you guys know if it lives up to the hype...
(I have not seen one in person, but so far, from what I read from the web, I'm not impressed...)

[shmokes]

My friend just went to the local Best Buy and picked one up on launch day.  No line.

[Malenko]

sorry to hop in all late, but I was reading about all this cornfusion for streaming from a PC or whatever to an Iphone , PS3 , etc

I use Tversity, it runs in the tray and even when I'm streaming to my PS3/360/other PCs/etc I don't notice any slow down, and you can stream to the Iphone via the built in safari browser. Now I know you mentioned Tversity then sorta dropped the conversation, but its super simple to use and I have zero complaints about it (and it supports DIVX)

[Blanka]

I just have been watching the video review from Engadget.

Some findings:

- This thing must be low on RAM. They say Safari is speedy, but it does not look like that (grey areas all the time when scrolling). You see that the buffer cannot hold one complete page, not to mention fast tab switching. You see the page regenerate all the time, and switching tabs looks like a complete reload.
- Design of apps is realy a mess. Why does an E-book have to look like an old medieval book on display in the National Museum? Maybe Apple should include a old-paper-stink-generator too. Mail looks very Mail-OSX like (like it needs a mouse and the menu bar can pop in any time), Calender is pretty down-to-earth iPad style. Contacts is very boring. Hey where was your imagination on that? Not even big facials or browse by picture. Fun too see that the bad taste of Steve (or is it his wife? or just being American?) kicks away Ive's minimal-oriented brain sometimes.
- Too much iCandy. Please pay us back killed time on sweeping pages, zooming dock icons, rotating orientation switches, fancy photoalbum zooms. Make a "don't steal my time with fancy stuff" button in the preferences.
- Apple keeps struggling with the rotation sensor. Forget the lock switch and auto-turn. Just introduce a manual big turn gesture that works all the time.

[protokatie]

Ok, after testing the iPad out for a few days, I will give my first "official" byoac report (as it seems I am the only byoac poster who has one).

First off, the lack of flash is becoming more and more of a problem. I do not use a computer for just casual browsing of the web, and many sites that I like to visit use flash. Those flash based sites that also use the <video> tag as an option also seem to not work on the iPad.

The lack of multitasking is also a bother, but for such a device it is ok. Right now as I am typing this on my iPad, I see why multitasking is not allowed. I am currently dling a video podcast and the on screen keyboard is now reacting very slowly. I do not think the iPad has the CPU power for real multitasking.

The lack of samba is annoying, but expected. The inability to dl video off of a web site was not expected tho and hinders the usefulness of the device.

The new (ie larger) on screen keyboard is nice tho, and almost allows for touch typing.

All in all, this thing is not a big deal. The form factor is nice, but it's lack of certain key features cripples it for any serious use. If you want to do anything serious with an ultra portable computer, stick with a net book. I know I will. But the Ipad does have it's uses and it would be useful to just consider it a large iPod touch.

[patrickl]

why sit outside for 5 days ?

Apparently the guy is a professional "line sitter". He was the first to buy an iPhone and he signed first at "ground zero".

This was a store that would sell the iPad first.

[patrickl]

- Too much iCandy. Please pay us back killed time on sweeping pages, zooming dock icons, rotating orientation switches, fancy photoalbum zooms. Make a "don't steal my time with fancy stuff" button in the preferences.

Yeah, I saw the Windows Mobile 7 demo and with that I was also wondering if you could switch all those ridiculous animations off. Why do I need to wait for a menu to slide into place?

People whine how their devices are so slow and then they are happy that designers actually make stuff go even slower with these swishy swashy user interfaces.

[patrickl]

Oh BTW the biggest question on everybodies mind is of course ... will it blend?

[protokatie]

Yeah, I saw the Windows Mobile 7 demo and with that I was also wondering if you could switch all those ridiculous animations off. Why do I need to wait for a menu to slide into place?

People whine how their devices are so slow and then they are happy that designers actually make stuff go even slower with these swishy swashy user interfaces.

That is done to hide load times. It is a pretty common "feature" and has been for more than a decade. I remember in the win 3.11 days that the menus were stored on the Hdd until you clicked on a menu. I could actually hear the hdd clicking away to get just the small bit of text + whatnot simply for menus.

[shmokes]

I just clicked around my start menu and I hear the hdd clicking away each time I open a new folder.  This is on a Windows 7 machine with a Core i7 920 and 12 GB of DDR3 RAM.  Go figure.

Actually after opening about 10 folders it stopped accessing the hdd no matter how many more folders I opened.  Presumably the OS got wise to me and decided to cache the whole menu.

[patrickl]

Yeah, I saw the Windows Mobile 7 demo and with that I was also wondering if you could switch all those ridiculous animations off. Why do I need to wait for a menu to slide into place?

People whine how their devices are so slow and then they are happy that designers actually make stuff go even slower with these swishy swashy user interfaces.

That is done to hide load times. It is a pretty common "feature" and has been for more than a decade. I remember in the win 3.11 days that the menus were stored on the Hdd until you clicked on a menu. I could actually hear the hdd clicking away to get just the small bit of text + whatnot simply for menus.

No it's not.

I'll agree that technically animations could "hide" a delay, but in reality they simply don't.

What is happening is that it's animating the menu that it already retrieved. If it simply displays it instead of sliding it in then it would be faster.

[RayB]

Oh BTW the biggest question on everybodies mind is of course ... will it blend?

Pretty impressive at 0:38-0:44. The thing is is smashed and bent into a curve yet you can see the screen still works and stuff is functioning!!

@Prototakie: The <video> tag is HTML5 which isn't yet "approved" and ready to go. So no doubt it will come when the standard is finalized.

[Level42]

- Too much iCandy. Please pay us back killed time on sweeping pages, zooming dock icons, rotating orientation switches, fancy photoalbum zooms. Make a "don't steal my time with fancy stuff" button in the preferences.

Yeah, I saw the Windows Mobile 7 demo and with that I was also wondering if you could switch all those ridiculous animations off. Why do I need to wait for a menu to slide into place?

People whine how their devices are so slow and then they are happy that designers actually make stuff go even slower with these swishy swashy user interfaces.

If I were you, I'd go back to good old MS-Dos. Get rid of all those ridiculous windows !

[patrickl]

- Too much iCandy. Please pay us back killed time on sweeping pages, zooming dock icons, rotating orientation switches, fancy photoalbum zooms. Make a "don't steal my time with fancy stuff" button in the preferences.

Yeah, I saw the Windows Mobile 7 demo and with that I was also wondering if you could switch all those ridiculous animations off. Why do I need to wait for a menu to slide into place?

People whine how their devices are so slow and then they are happy that designers actually make stuff go even slower with these swishy swashy user interfaces.

If I were you, I'd go back to good old MS-Dos. Get rid of all those ridiculous windows !

I do like the Windows 95 style of interface best. With all animations switched off. No "aqua" and swishing stuff for me.

I'm obviously not alone since Windows still comes with this option of a "classic" interface style. Especially in corporate environments where for people who use their computer to work on rather than for web browsing and picture viewing.

[shmokes]

The Windows 7 taskbar is so many lightyears beyond Windows 95 it makes me want to cut somebody's arm off.

[patrickl]

The Windows 7 taskbar is so many lightyears beyond Windows 95 it makes me want to cut somebody's arm off.

theme != interface

[shmokes]

Have you used Windows 7?

[patrickl]

Have you used Windows 7?

Yes. So?

The mind boggles how it is important wether I have used Windows 7 or not when I state that I dislike aque/aero themes and that I don't like useless animations.

[solidteezme]

The ipad is gonna suck, no xvideos or redtube. Thats all we want it for on the move!!! 

[patrickl]

The ipad is gonna suck, no xvideos or redtube. Thats all we want it for on the move!!! 

Adobe seems to have gone with HP and their upcoming Slate device



Engadget had an article with iPad alternatives: iPass? The best present and future alternatives to the Apple iPad.

A few days later they also had an article that ads the ICD Gemini with Android to that list.

[Ed_McCarron]

Is there an actual reason for Apple to have dismissed flash?  Other than the seeming "We're apple and you'll buy what we tell you to" attitude?

[Loafmeister]

IMHO, if apple could have their way, they would want every little bit of content you view on the Ipad (Itouch/Iphone) to come through the Appstore, which equates to additional revenue for them.  Supporting other codecs/flash opens up the possibility you'll be accessing media without going through them.  The lack of flash support is a business decision, not a tech limitation.

[patrickl]

With iPhone OS4 they even demand that developers can not use other compilers than the one that Apple provides. So applications build using the Flash compiler that Adobe created are not allowed on the iPhone/iPad.

They really want a monopoly on everything.

[CheffoJeffo]

They really want a monopoly on everything.

Especially batteries !

Really, WTF is it with Apple and batteries ?

If your iPhone won't charge, they'll replace the battery for a fee. If your iPad won't charge, they'll give you a refurb (as opposed to replacing the battery) for a fee.

Didn't they learn anything from the iPod battery fiasco ? Or is there some other reason that they are unwilling to make what seems to be their biggest point of failure an item that is easy to replace (even if it is done in-store) ?

I really miss Apple Computer Inc -- I loved that they included the schematics with the Apple ][ -- I tore mine apart and built all sorts of cool stuff (much of which never actually worked, but I thought it was cool!). Apple Inc is a media company and I have no love of media companies, even when they have cool-looking gadgets.

I will admit that their delivery system is pretty good ... my son bought a game on his iPod Touch and it wouldn't download ... 5 tries later and a message comes up saying "when you log into iTunes on your computer, this will be available for download". I logged in to iTunes and there it was, ready to download. Downloaded, then plugged in the iPod and everything installed nicely. Credit where credit is due.

[RayB]

With iPhone OS4 they even demand that developers can not use other compilers than the one that Apple provides. So applications build using the Flash compiler that Adobe created are not allowed on the iPhone/iPad.

They really want a monopoly on everything.

I just learned this news today. Quite the kick in the pants to hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of Flash developers out there and a douchey move against Adobe.

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler

The worst part is that this won't prevent bad programmers from still putting out fart apps and apps that are buggy, made with their own "approved" tools.

[polaris]

for the technically brain dead like me can someone explain what i'm missing out on with not having flash.
the bbc iplayer requires flash on my proper computers but will work on my iphone too, obviously with some other thing that does the same job, you tube works, porn does too(so i'm told), admittedly theyre mobile site versions, but the content is the same once it starts playing.

[RayB]

Thats just it Polaris. It's just something for a bunch of geeks to complain about because a device they would never consider purchasing anyways is not "perfect".

[protokatie]

Things that don't work without flash

1. Most interactive online video media (like those web cams that you can move around.

2. Most video streaming sites (other than YouTube, but that was a special case). This includes hulu, surthechannel, south park studios, comedy central, and many many others

3. Maybe half of the sites that have "advanced" added functionality. Luckily php is supported on the iPad, otherwise byoac (and any other forum that uses phpbb) would be inaccessible.

It really isn't a nerd thing at all. You may not realize how many of the sites that you go to use flash in some way.

4. Almost forgot, flash sites like new grounds will obviously not work, as well as an link you get in your email to those cute flash viral videos.

Apple kicked out flash because apple wanted to have all content go through them. With flash, anyone could make an app and apple wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It was a profit based business decision.

[jfunk]

...Luckily php is supported on the iPad...

Sorry, but this is just kinda silly.  PHP is a backend language.  It spits out whatever you want it to (text, html, etc, etc...)  ANYTHING with a browser supports 'php' as long as the php is outputing content the browser supports 

In terms of flash support..  In most cases, I think companies shouldn't use flash for 'enhancements'..  Dropdown menus, animation, etc, etc should all be javascript..  With jquery, extjs, and all of the other fantastic javascript libraries open to developers (that work just fine on the iPhone), there's no reason to use bulky flash for site 'enhancements'...

I think most video sites will end up supporting both flash and HTML5, especially with FF and IE coming around to use it...

The only thing I see flash as REALLY useful for on websites is games..  But, I don't play many flash games, so... 

Just my $0.02... 

[shmokes]

But, I don't play many flash games, so... 

Well . . . in that case I suppose there really is no reason to support Flash.  Surely if you don't play many flash games nobody else does either.   

[protokatie]

...Luckily php is supported on the iPad...

Sorry, but this is just kinda silly.  PHP is a backend language.  It spits out whatever you want it to (text, html, etc, etc...)  ANYTHING with a browser supports 'php' as long as the php is outputing content the browser

I should have known better than to say what I did in respect to a server side language. I was at work in between customers trying to tap that out on my iPad anD must have been thinking of something else. 

[Level42]

Man is that HP slate thing lagging !!!

It already looks old-fashioned compared to the iPad before it is released....


(by the way, that video was not Flash )

It's a format war people. Remember VHS, Betamax, V2000 ?

Also: the iPad is not targeted on any of us nerds who actually know what is going behind the scenes. It's targeted at people who want a device that does, like a TV or a coffee-machine, what they want it to do and not want to be bothered about the technology behind it.

The protective attitude is not something new or unique for Apple. Shall I remember the Atari 2600 ? Why did the videogame scene crash in 1983/4 ? Because there was a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load of rubbish released for that machine by companies who went for the quick buck.

Atari had no control over the contents on the machine. Worse: they started pumping out rubbish themselves.
Nintendo (just as an example) learned from that and changed the rules. I think, in the end it works for customers. And for the companies too, because Nintendo is still around and stronger than ever, while Atari is long dead.

O and you are still free to buy any product or not.

[protokatie]

Also: the iPad is not targeted on any of us nerds who actually know what is going behind the scenes. It's targeted at people who want a device that does, like a TV or a coffee-machine, what they want it to do and not want to be bothered about the technology behind it.

Again, the flash point has been missed. Flash IS something that let's you access the web like you would turn to a certain tv channel. It is not a nerd thing. Not having flash is like having a tv that only let's you tune to channel 7 and 13, with all other channels just showing static.

The honest truth is that I cannot on the iPad that I am typing this reply on go to any and all web sites. Many of the popular ones simple do not work without flash. To the non-nerd, the lack of flash would be frustrating when surfing the web, as they would simply be locked out of a large portion of it, ESP many of the links their friends send them via email or even word of mouth.


Please, get this through your head; flash is not a nerd thing, it is one of the major aspects of the web experience, and if it is not there, you will not be able to see the full web at all.


That being said, the iPad is cool and all, and the lack of multitasking fits the form factor, but I would like to be able to access all of the web, not just part of it.

[jfunk]

But, I don't play many flash games, so... 

Well . . . in that case I suppose there really is no reason to support Flash.  Surely if you don't play many flash games nobody else does either.   

OK, poor phrasing on my part    I honestly never notice the lack of flash (my point).  HOWEVER, all this talk about 'geeks' being the only ones that care..  The one complaint about the iPhone that I hear from my wife, over and over, is the lack of flash.  She's asked quite often why this site or that won't work, or why she can't view videos...

But seriously, that's her only complaint 

[CheffoJeffo]

Man is that HP slate thing lagging !!!

It already looks old-fashioned compared to the iPad before it is released....

Perhaps, but it does solve all of the objections to the iPad for those who object. It comes at the cost of half the battery life of the iPad (until the iPad battery deteriorates).

I'll probably pick up a Slate because it will be closest to what I want a tablet for (which includes streaming, video conferencing and running apps not available on iPad) and gives me more options for what I do with it.

[shmokes]

the lack of multitasking fits the form factor

You'll get multitasking this fall with OS 4.0

[patrickl]

Just saw a clip of a guy who put the iPad in a car dashboard.


So I guess there really IS something an iPad does better than a netbook.

[Level42]

Wow that last sentence must have cost you some serious effort to type Patrick

Kinda nice to have a "mac" and a McIntosh.....
Where did he leave that amp by the way, and man is that a waste to put that in a car (I didn't listen to the sound of this clip, maybe he didn't actually use it in the car ?)

[patrickl]

Wow that last sentence must have cost you some serious effort to type Patrick

No, I see some benefits to the form factor. Just not so much in webbrowsing, media playing and PDF reading.

Kinda nice to have a "mac" and a McIntosh.....
Where did he leave that amp by the way, and man is that a waste to put that in a car (I didn't listen to the sound of this clip, maybe he didn't actually use it in the car ?)

I was wondering about the cost too, but a car stereo can be hugely expensive too. Especially one with a TV screen. This iPad is probably a lot cheaper than most alternatives.

Besides, it's not actually fixed to the car. He can slide it out.

[CheffoJeffo]

Today ... I want an iPad ... or another tablet device that is good with PDFs.

I finally got off of my butt and ordered 20 years worth of the Digital Archives of GameRoom Magazine on DVD. (highly recommended, BTW).

I have a nice office setup, including two secondary LCDs that rotate for nice reading of portrait-oriented material, but it isn't the same as having a device that I can carry around then sit outside with a nice cold beer, flipping through the back issues.

 

[RayB]

I'd try out one of the Slates / tablets first, see how well it tracks "touch" and handles motion. The thing about Apple's capacitive multitouch screens is they are the most accurate out of all the competing devices. Gotta give credit where credit is due...

Also, give it a year or two and they will new OS's for download that keep improving the product. Just look at 4.0. They've already addressed the multitasking complaints.

[Level42]

What actually is that HP slate (sleigh ?) running ?
It seriously looks clumsy compared to the iPad.

@patrick: I kinda more meant that Amp than the iPad
That amp easily costs a good multiple times the cost of the iPad.

The iPad will also double as navigation (yes TomTom available).

@Cheffo: Don't forget the total "bed worthynes"  of the iPad. I admit here that every once in a while I carry my company PC laptop into my bed to reference something really important (or so I claim) BUT, the set-up is clumsy in bed.
It's also noisy (both the stupid fan (that seems to make fun of blowing short "puffs" of hot air instead of running at a steady pace, making it sound like a whining cat) and the HD).

"O man, are you taking that iPad with you again ?"
"But darling, I'm reading my latest book !"

End of discussion. Then of course you can surf of to this forum and silently type some useful stuff. Or read PDF's

[CheffoJeffo]

What actually is that HP slate (sleigh ?) running ?
It seriously looks clumsy compared to the iPad.

Windows 7

@Cheffo: Don't forget the total "bed worthynes"  of the iPad. I admit here that every once in a while I carry my company PC laptop into my bed to reference something really important (or so I claim) BUT, the set-up is clumsy in bed.
It's also noisy (both the stupid fan (that seems to make fun of blowing short "puffs" of hot air instead of running at a steady pace, making it sound like a whining cat) and the HD).

I'm not ... for either the reading or the porn ...

 

[shmokes]

The iPad will also double as navigation (yes TomTom available).

This sounds pretty awful.  First I think the iPad doesn't have GPS in it unless you get the one with a built-in cellular modem for like $130 more or something.  On top of that, who would actually want this?  Where are you going to put the thing?  You really want a ten inch screen (plus one inch border) taking up a substantial proportion of your visibility?  And if you're not going to mount it on your dash, where will you put it?  On the passenger seat?  Looking down and to the right (or left Britons) to see the map doesn't sound very appealing or particularly safe.  And how much is this Tom Tom software going to cost?  In the end it seems to me that you'll get a much better experience from a dedicated 3-4" $80 device that will come with mounting hardware and a plug to draw power from your car's 12v outlet.

[syph007]

I finally got off of my butt and ordered 20 years worth of the Digital Archives of GameRoom Magazine on DVD. (highly recommended, BTW).

Hey that sounds like a really good idea.... is there a buy all for a bundled price, or is it a buck an issue for each?

[CheffoJeffo]

I finally got off of my butt and ordered 20 years worth of the Digital Archives of GameRoom Magazine on DVD. (highly recommended, BTW).

Hey that sounds like a really good idea.... is there a buy all for a bundled price, or is it a buck an issue for each?

$99 for all 20 years.

[hyiu]

I played with an ipad briefly over the wkend...

my impression is.... it is a oversize iphone, without the phone and the camera.
overall, I'm not impressed... pure personal opinion...
(I guess I want a little more out of it....)

my friend got it for his mom... so that she can just one click and check email, do some web surfing... and nothing much... but then, it's more fool proof than a laptop...

its pretty nice, but functionality-wise, not my cup of tea.

[shmokes]

I was an expert witness in a mock trial last Saturday and so I was sitting in the courtroom for a couple hours playing with my friend's iPad.  There are some things it doesn't do that it absolutely should do.  And I have philosophical issues with some of Apple's business practices, particularly with the iPad, that make me sort of disinclined to give them my money.  But it's a pretty cool device that works well and has a gajillion uses.  And I'm talking about actual I-would-use-this-daily type uses.  Considering that every tablet that has come before has approximately no usefulness whatsoever in the average person's daily life . . . well, I think that's gotta count for something.  I mean, the thing is deeply flawed.  And there are legit reasons to hate on Apple (though most Apple-hating has nothing to do with those reasons).  But this device is probably best in class at this point.

[patrickl]

Why is this tablet so useful while others have not been?

[shmokes]

First, because operating the OS and applications with a stylus is not very pleasant.  The iPad's touch interface works much better aside from actual writing, and for the most part nobody wants to write on a computer . . . that's what keyboards are for.

Second, because 99% of applications that run on Tablet PC were designed with a keyboard and mouse in mind.  100% of the applications on the iPad were designed with the touch interface in mind.

[patrickl]

There are plenty tablets with touch interfaces. In fact I doubt you'll find one that comes with a completely standard PC OS.

Don't quite get your remark about writing. I'd say most webbrowsing I do involves a lot of writing. How is writing on an iPad any different from any other tablet? In fact indeed most tablets come with a keyboard. Just flip the screen and you have a computer. Flip it back and you can read e-books or do simple webbrowsing.

BTW You should try watching a movie on a tablet device. I tried that once and next time I brought a netbook instead.

[shmokes]

I have one of the first tablet PCs.  It ran Windows XP Tablet PC edition.  The tablet functionality was tacked on.    The cursor also lags WAY behind the stylus.  I've been amazed to see that this lag was never corrected no matter how fast processors got.  Additionally, there was very little software designed specifically for Tablets, because the market was never very big.  Beginning with Windows Vista the tablet functionality was built into the OS, but it never stopped feeling tacked on, and software support remains negligible.

Your mention of convertible tablets actually illustrates my point.  Whenever an application works better with a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, just flip the screen around.  But since 99% of the software is designed with a keyboard/mouse in mind, you end up using your device's tablet functionality about 1% of the time.  I know many people who have had tablet PCs and for ALL of them it has been the same:  Seemed really cool, but it turned out that I never use it in tablet format.

The iPad is the opposite beast.  If you want a keyboard you have to buy it separately.  Every program is designed specifically to be used on a tablet.

Also, to answer your question, you don't write on an iPad.  There's no stylus (there is actually, but it's irrelevant to this discussion).  You only type.  And the on-screen keyboard works far far better than anything that Microsoft has done.  But more importantly is that it's not just the on-screen keyboard.  It's the entire user-interface.  It's how the on-screen keyboard works with the applications, which have been designed from the ground up to be used on a tablet device in every single way.  Mobile Safari is designed for a tablet in every way including methods of input.  Internet Explorer is designed from the ground up for a PC with a keyboard/mouse and repurposed for Tablet PC devices by tacking on a few poorly conceived, poorly executed new Tablet features.

In the end, it's just experience.  I've used them both, and they provide vastly different overall experiences.  The iPad is the far superior experience in almost every way.

[Level42]

So, do I understand correctly that they sell the 3G version without any locks and/or mandatory connections ?

That would be brilliant as I already have a 3G connection for my work laptop. If I could ask for a 2nd SIM-card, I would be all set. AND I could ask my aunt to send one over from the US

[RayB]

So simple a cat can use it:

[shmokes]

So, do I understand correctly that they sell the 3G version without any locks and/or mandatory connections ?

That would be brilliant as I already have a 3G connection for my work laptop. If I could ask for a 2nd SIM-card, I would be all set. AND I could ask my aunt to send one over from the US

I can't say whether there are any locks . . . I'm actually pretty sure it is locked into AT&T, but I could be wrong about that.  But it doesn't require a contract.  You can just pay for a month of data if and when you need it.

Moreover, though, it won't accept a regular SIM card.  It uses a mini-sim card.  Totally different formfactor, so your current SIM won't fit.

[patrickl]

I have one of the first tablet PCs.  It ran Windows XP Tablet PC edition.  The tablet functionality was tacked on.

The first tablet PC I've used ran on the pen version of Windows 3.1. I don't remember any lag, but that was in 93 so something that insignificant I wouldn't remember.

It's not just Tablet PC's. PDA's with big screens have been around for a while.

[/quote]Your mention of convertible tablets actually illustrates my point.  Whenever an application works better with a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, just flip the screen around.  But since 99% of the software is designed with a keyboard/mouse in mind, you end up using your device's tablet functionality about 1% of the time.  I know many people who have had tablet PCs and for ALL of them it has been the same:  Seemed really cool, but it turned out that I never use it in tablet format.[/quote]That's exactly my point. A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor. You don't want to hold something for an hour and a half watching a movie. You want to set it down. If you go to websites you tend to want to type stuff on a forum. If you want to send e-mails you want to type text.

The only time you want it to be a tablet is when you read an ebook or maybe when you play a game.

[CheffoJeffo]

A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor.

The issue would then be the definition of practical. You seem to be basing your arguments on the iPad as a replacement for other devices, which it is certainly not. I have notebooks and a netbook and I crave a tablet. I'm not getting rid of keyboarded computers -- I totally need those and they are brilliant for doing what I use them for.

You cite posting on forums as indicative of web surfing, when that is exactly the opposite of the majority of web surfing ... unless, perhaps, you are Chad. Even when I browse BYOAC on a normal computer, the vast majority of the time I don't post. I never post from my phone, but browse regularly.

If you are looking for fully-functional portable computing, then I agree 100% that non-keyboarded tablets aren't it.

It seems to me that you see things with the same mindset as the guy who thinks that he can only have one cabinet. He may be able to play Chiller on his MAME cab, but it won't match the experience of playing on my original Exidy AND I can still have my own MAME cab in the corner as well.

[shmokes]

Of course a platform is only as good as the software available for it (see: Atari Jaguar  )

The iPad already has a lot of stellar software available (check out the videos for Geometry Wars and Scrabble, among others), and developers falling all over themselves to get more software out there.

This is, of course, the obvious reason that the iPad will succeed where Windows tablets have failed. 

[shmokes]

I never really thought about it before, but considering the cost of an unsubsidized iPhone (more than $500 on Ebay), the iPad does seem comparatively inexpensive.

[patrickl]

A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor.

The issue would then be the definition of practical. You seem to be basing your arguments on the iPad as a replacement for other devices, which it is certainly not. I have notebooks and a netbook and I crave a tablet. I'm not getting rid of keyboarded computers -- I totally need those and they are brilliant for doing what I use them for.

I'm just saying that a tablet has very limited applications over what a netbook can already do and then at twice the price. Yet there are more things a netbook can do that a tablet cannot.

So sure they both have their specific applications, but you have to be very gadget oriented and flush with cash to warrant purchasing both.

I have to agree that an iPad is relatively cheap though. In 2007 there were the UPMC's and they cost well over a 1000 euro and weighed a ton. Miniaturization and costs of the components dropping is what makes these devices even remotely viable today.

[CheffoJeffo]

So sure they both have their specific applications, but you have to be very gadget oriented and flush with cash to warrant purchasing both.

I definitely agree with that ... if Mrs Cheffo didn't need the netbook, I wouldn't be considering a tablet purchase.

[shmokes]

 Yet there are more things a netbook can do that a tablet cannot.

I think this actually illustrates a more subtle part of Apple's strategy, but a part that I think is instrumental in its success.  A netbook is just a PC.  It can do more or less whatever a PC can do, just slower, on a smaller screen and with inferior input hardware (compared to a desktop or full-sized laptop).

Conversely, Apple made its tablet the antithesis of it's desktop/laptop line.  They based it on their phone.  What this allows it to do is work perfectly.  Nothing barely runs on the iPad.  Nothing will run, but at an unacceptably choppy framerate.  If it works for the iPad it actually works exactly as intended.  And it works fast.  The device is super responsive.  You click something and it just opens instantly. 

So what initially seems like a score for netbooks (in the netbook v. iPad battle), and certainly is a score in many ways, also works against them.  Netbooks sort of give you the opportunity to be underwhelmed and frustrated when a program isn't working the way it should -- the way you expect the program to work.  You understand that t's because you're on a slow netbook, but that doesn't make the experience less frustrating.  By never purporting to do any of that stuff, Apple's got a better psychology going for it.  You don't resent your Microwave for being unable to toast bread.  But if you have a Microwave/Toaster Oven combo, but it toasts bread very unevenly and only on one side, it's frustrating and obnoxious.  You end up resenting the entire device a little because now you have to have a separate toaster, even though it is actually a perfectly good microwave and if you had a normal microwave you'd still have to have a separate toaster.

And so on . . . don't ask me where all that came from.   

[patrickl]

While all that is true in theory. It doesn't really translate to reality. There are specific functions that you want to perform like "browse the web", "watch movies" or "read e-books". If this is done by an app that starts in 1 second or 2 seconds doesn't really matter.

Besides, if you want to run downscaled (fast starting) software on your netbook you can do that too.

You could also get an Android netbook. That's also a "PDA OS" for use on low tech hardware with dumbed down standard software.

[shmokes]

It's opposite.  What you just said is the "true in theory" stuff.  You're all about, "you could do this, you can do this . . ."  On the iPad we're talking about what you actually do.

Look, Patrick, have you ever heard of the Apple TV?  How many people do you know who have one?  Exactly.  Apple doesn't just get a pass, particularly when entering a new market.  You can rationalize it away all you want, but it's not just the Apple cult mentality at work here.  The iPad is simply a better product than any previous tablet.  That doesn't mean that it can do more, or is more powerful.  It means that it works for people in a way that people want a device like that to work for them.

[Level42]

Patrick starts to sound like a broken record-tic-broken record-tic-broken record.

You can keep repeating all your meager arguments as much as you want, the iPad will be one big fat hit, weather you like it or not. Shmokes says like it is. It's about the total concept.

Oh, and if you would have actually taken a second to surf to Apple's website you'd learn that you can get a nice case that doubles as a stand for watching movies etc. because you keep mentioning the fact that keeping it in your hands isn't very comfortable.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/IPAD_CASE?mco=MTc0MjU1OTM

Or you can get the keyboard dock if you want a real keyboard.

[patrickl]

It's not about the concept. It's about the brand.

[shmokes]

Apple TV baby!!!

[patrickl]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

Sure I would never buy anything from Apple. I don't want to buy devices that are purposefully crippled just so they can enslave me to their content. Same reason why I didn't buy a Sony e-book reader.

Obviously my dislike for Apple doesn't explain why I wouldn't buy a similar Android or Windows Mobile 7 device.

I buy a device for a set of functions and not for a "mythical concept". Although I agree that "concept" myth is probably what is pushing the impulse buyers to *must have* one of these.

I have a PDA/phone with a 5" screen, an ebook reader with a 10" screen and a netbook with a 10" screen. I'm a gadget freak so I'd ultimately probably buy all devices, but if I have to make the choice between buying a netbook and a 10" pda, I would go for the netbook. It's as simple as that. Nothing sinister about it.

The only tablet type device I'm looking forward to is the Courier, but that's more from a "business use" point of view. I'd love to get rid of my notes and replace the Livescribe pen with a digital paper version.

[Blanka]

Are there any statistics on 65+ users yet? I really feel this is going to be the retarded gadget of 2010!

[Blanka]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

I do like the hardware from Apple. I bet no other tablet is going to have IPS or PVA screens, that's a thing I really like about Apples offering. The OS on the other hand sucks big time. I want old-school full-file access and USB mass storage compatibility on any mobile device with access to every file on it, period!

[shmokes]

Obviously my dislike for Apple doesn't explain why I wouldn't buy a similar Android or Windows Mobile 7 device.

I buy a device for a set of functions and not for a "mythical concept".

Um . . . between the iPad and Windows Mobile 7 I think only one is still a concept.

[patrickl]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

I do like the hardware from Apple. I bet no other tablet is going to have IPS or PVA screens, that's a thing I really like about Apples offering.

I'd rather have a screen with LED technology than LCD.

[shmokes]

Um . . . are you talking about an LED backlit LCD?  Or are you talking about one of those ginormous LED displays they put up in sports stadiums?

[protokatie]

Actually, LED based displays are the "in" thing now. They are replacing LCD as the display tech. I am not talking about the big 40 foot screens that have been around for decades. Regardless, led is the new thing. Say WAY goodbye to plasma.

Edit: you do know that oled is a form of led display that has been in use for years, right?

[Blanka]

Actually, LED based displays are the "in" thing now. They are replacing LCD as the display tech.

These LED displays are still as LCD as LCD can be! They are not REPLACING LCD! They are replacing CCFL backlight.
And you know what, CCFL is still better than LED for backlight in many cases. RGB-LED backlights are too expensive, and the CCFL backlight phosphors deliver way more colours (bigger gamut) than white LED backlights do.

[patrickl]

Wow sorry, I though this was common knowledge. I'm talking about the OLED/AMOLED displays that protokatie is talking about. In those the LED's replace the backlight+LCD.

These displays have been the standard in the new (higher end) phones that have been coming out over the last year. They offer higher contrast, more vibrant colors and consume less energy.

You can replace CCFL with LEDs, but that's still an LCD display. Not sure why CCFL is mentioned since, for obvious reasons, there has never been a CCFL in a phone or PDA. Indeed that's why PDA/Phones displays often suffer in color reproduction.

[Blanka]

Yes, but except from one horrible expensive Sony, OLED is only used for tiny, I mean REALLY tiny screens (1,5x1,5 inch 120x120 pixels, stuff like that). Even a smartphone has LED backlit LCD's as OLED is too expensive for that.
iPad is in the segment of sub-notebook displays, and they used to be CCFL backlit LCD's and are getting more and more white-LED-backlit now.
OLED for 10 inch mainstream gadgets is 2013's dream I guess.

[patrickl]

You are a bit behind on the news. Again, the latest smartphones have been coming out with AMOLED screens for at least a year. These are 3.5" to 4" screens. Netbooks with AMOLED are presented already. Although I don't think they are for sale yet.

The biggest issue is that Apple works with LG (and not Samsung) and LG has very limited AMOLED production. So of course LG couldn't produce enough of them for the iPad no. That doesn't make it a dream.

You claimed that the best screens are IPS or PVA. While in fact that technology is soooo 2008

[Vanguard]

Nexus One has an AMOLED screen.

And to Shmokes comment, Window Mobile Phone 7 is hardly a concept. 

[shmokes]

You're just mincing words here when surely you understood my point and my choice of words.  Patrick referred to the iPad as a "mythical concept" immediately after saying that he would by a Windows Mobile 7 device.  Of course Windows Phone 7 devices won't be out until Q4 of this year, I believe (at the very least they are definitely not out now).  I'm sure you can see the irony calling the one that is on store shelves a mythical concept.

Not only that but Windows Phone 7 is still a concept.  We do not know for sure what features will make it into the shipping product, and some of the announced features could obviously still get the 11th hour axe (see WinFS)

[Vanguard]

Not only that but Windows Phone 7 is still a concept.  We do not know for sure what features will make it into the shipping product, and some of the announced features could obviously still get the 11th hour axe (see WinFS)

Well, to you then it's a concept.  To me it's not.

[patrickl]

Patrick referred to the iPad as a "mythical concept" immediately after saying that he would by a Windows Mobile 7 device.

Ehm ... seriously? In fact I said that I WOULDN'T buy one.

[shmokes]

Ehm ... seriously?

Yes . . . totally seriously.

Upon re-reading your post, however, it's pretty clear that I totally misunderstood it when I read it the first time.   

[patrickl]

Lol.

The Courier is still a concept though. Probably, if and when it comes out, it will disappoint (me) too.

[Blanka]

Again, the latest smartphones have been coming out with AMOLED screens for at least a year.

I only take one smartphone serious for now. And that one has no AMOLED.  
If Steve does not want an AMOLED yet, there must be something wrong with it  

[patrickl]

Again, the latest smartphones have been coming out with AMOLED screens for at least a year.

I only take one smartphone serious for now. And that one has no AMOLED.  
If Steve does not want an AMOLED yet, there must be something wrong with it  

I read somewhere that they hacked Android onto a iPhone 2G. Maybe that's the best of both worlds for you

[Vanguard]

Again, the latest smartphones have been coming out with AMOLED screens for at least a year.

I only take one smartphone serious for now. And that one has no AMOLED.  
If Steve does not want an AMOLED yet, there must be something wrong with it  

There isn't anything wrong with AMOLED technology.  Google just chose not to put the more expense displays in their phone.  There are 3 sub pixel 32 bit AMOLED displays out there and they look fantastic.   They also use less power and handle tensile mechanical strain far better than LCDs.  The biggest problem that AMOLED has is lifespan but for phones that's hardly and issue.   Who keeps their phone for 5-6 years and uses it 8 hours a day?

Apple doesn't use AMOLED because Apple builds cheapo hardware.   They do a good job with the user interface and ecosystem but the hardware itself is nothing exciting.  It's usually not cutting edge but rather the commodity stuff that enables Apple to build a cheap device that they sell at huge markups.

[patrickl]

OK, so the Courier has been cancelled. Ah well.

[CheffoJeffo]

OK, so the Courier has been cancelled. Ah well.

And apparently the Slate.

 :'(

[patrickl]

OK, so the Courier has been cancelled. Ah well.

And apparently the Slate.

 :'(

Well the HP Slate is ultimately most likely going to be slimmed down rather than cancelled right? Didn't quite understand their idea to put Windows 7 on something that's esentially a PDA. I assumed they would come out with an Android version soon after.

Palm was big in the PDA market once so if (big screen) PDA's are going to make a comeback, maybe buying them isn't such a bad idea for HP. Palm was alo working on a netbook type device (Foleo or something) before Asus came out with one and took the market by storm. Although Apple's idea was more like a big PDA with a keyboard rather than a small laptop. Maybe Palm was even working on a tablet of their own already?

Either way it's just going to be just one more offering of essentialy the same thing. I really would have liked to see the Courier.

[Level42]

Mmmm, funny. Once the developers of competeting devices get the iPad in hands, they all seem to cancel their development. Mmmm.

Maybe they realise their product is no match to it ?




By the way, I may have changed my mind about getting an iPad. Instead I may be trading in my Mini for a 27" iMac 

[Level42]

HAH, they sold 1 million units within half the time that the iPhone needed !!! Only 28 days vs. 74 for the iPhone.

But I'm sure Patrick and the like are totally right, it's a crap device, not going to sell. 

[CheffoJeffo]

I don't think it is a crap device, but I know that it won't do everything that I want a tablet to do.

Sadly, there isn't a tablet currently (or in the near future) that does everything I want to do and Apple's rapidly-approaching-draconian constraints on developers means that Apple will never give me what I want, even though they provide a slick experience with what they choose to provide.

I have more Apple products in my home now than I have at any time since the mid 80s. None of them are mine (and, obviously, I am not in Apple's desired demographic).

I admire the design and, for the most part, love the functionality. I get a couple of iTunes receipts each week for purchases made by others in my household. But, it seems that Apple is interested in herding users into a corral where the expectations are lower than I would like and, in doing so, convincing said users of what they really want to do.

It's good marketing, but doesn't anybody remember McLuhan ?

Level -- do you, as a flag-waving Apple fan, have any concerns over the way Apple is herding users into their proprietary, limited, world ?

[Loafmeister]

kind of relevant to the Ipad via the flash support issue, but I was testing my new quad core i7 computer when I realized the default Internet Explorer browser was NOT the 64bit version.  WTF?  That's a surprise, so I switched that, ran the 64bit IE and then was greeted on the first page I accessed with an error, via a need to install the flash plug-in.

So I installed it, didn't work. Installed it again, didn't work.  What the heck?  So I went to the flash page and noticed they still do not have a plugin for the 64bit version of IE...

Back to Apple and the IPAD, I still think they need to add USB support, more memory and yes, flash support. But if its taking this bloody long for Adobe to come up with 64bit version of their flash app, what does that say to Apple and their concern that flash may be too bloated, too CPU intensive for their Ipad's?

This doesn't convince me that Apple is making their decisions with the consumer in mind (I really think they don't want to offer alternatives to Itunes) but from a development perspective, Adobe needs to get on their horse for stuff like this as upon reflection, it certainly makes them look pretty sad in my book and has certainly made them feel like less a victim with this issue.

[RayB]

Adobe have painted themselves into a corner by putting all their focus on selling their products in "Suite" packages. That means every major product release (such as Flash, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc (there are dozens of apps!)) has to be debugged and completed all by the same release date, rather than each developed at their own pace, as suits the individual product best.

[patrickl]

HAH, they sold 1 million units within half the time that the iPhone needed !!! Only 28 days vs. 74 for the iPhone.

But I'm sure Patrick and the like are totally right, it's a crap device, not going to sell. 

Does being a pathetic fanboy make you incredibly stupid too or something? Where did I say it was "crap" or that it wouldn't sell?

[t3design]

Anyone else see this? Looks like "no Flash" is not going to be a problem.

H.264 ascendant: why Apple’s no-Flash, no-Theora gamble is paying off

[protokatie]

Anyone else see this? Looks like "no Flash" is not going to be a problem.

H.264 ascendant: why Apple’s no-Flash, no-Theora gamble is paying off

If flash was only for video, that would be a good graph, sadly flash is an entire programming platform and is in heavy use in places you may not even see it. Like I said before, there is no justifiable reason to not support standards (even if for backwards compatibility) even if they suck. Also, Apple is not supporting OGV (ogg video), something I noticed when trying to watch a video using the video tagged version of archive.com.

[RayB]

FYI, Flash supports h.264. That's partly why FLV and VP6 is seen as declining.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Im liking this android Tablet

http://zedomax.com/blog/2010/05/04/android-multi-touch-tablet-prototype-hands-on-review-web-2-0-expo/

Id be tempted to buy one of these depending on the finished product

[Blanka]

Im liking this android Tablet Cheesy

I hope the final version is not going to be sold with chopped-off bottom  
And I really doubt any other tabletmaker will include an IPS of PVA screen. Guess we better put time in getting Android to work on iPad instead of Apples own crap-drm-OSX, then to hope someone else will make comparable hardware.

[Level42]

Im liking this android Tablet

http://zedomax.com/blog/2010/05/04/android-multi-touch-tablet-prototype-hands-on-review-web-2-0-expo/

Id be tempted to buy one of these depending on the finished product

Very unimpressive.

[patrickl]

Im liking this android Tablet Cheesy

I hope the final version is not going to be sold with chopped-off bottom  
And I really doubt any other tabletmaker will include an IPS of PVA screen. Guess we better put time in getting Android to work on iPad instead of Apples own crap-drm-OSX, then to hope someone else will make comparable hardware.

Trouble is that the iPad is the one with the inferior hardware. No USB, no HDMI, no card slot, no camera, poor network connectivity, overheating problems, not enough memory, underpowered processor (so you'll have to recode your Full HD movies), 4:3 screen instead of widescreen etc etc etc. It's just not very good. So there is a lot that the dozens of upcoming Android tablets can improve upon.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Im more impressed with the android tablets cause i can see the android OS working well on them.

There are a few android tablets ready for release soon

The Archos 5


eviGroup's MID Wallet


Ramos W7 Bluemagic


SmartQ V5 MID 1080P Player


MS Wind Android Tablet


There are a few more and i can't remember where i saw it but there also was one that was 10" and had a camera for skype in landscape mode which looked to work quite well too

I can see alot more promiss in the Android tablets and can see it being a better media device that will support more than the Ipad over a short time

But the most interesting one is the Notion Ink Adam
its just easier if i put this link up
http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/9-upcoming-tablet-alternatives-to-the-apple-ipad/

[RayB]

The interface/input has to be precise, responsive, and fluid, otherwise it's a no-go. And that last pic with the STYLUS made me LOL. A stylus? In 2010?! Seriously?

[Samstag]

The interface/input has to be precise, responsive, and fluid, otherwise it's a no-go. And that last pic with the STYLUS made me LOL. A stylus? In 2010?! Seriously?

How's the handwriting recognition on the ipad working for you?

[RayB]

The interface/input has to be precise, responsive, and fluid, otherwise it's a no-go. And that last pic with the STYLUS made me LOL. A stylus? In 2010?! Seriously?

How's the handwriting recognition on the ipad working for you?

Paper is much cheaper.

[Samstag]

The interface/input has to be precise, responsive, and fluid, otherwise it's a no-go. And that last pic with the STYLUS made me LOL. A stylus? In 2010?! Seriously?

How's the handwriting recognition on the ipad working for you?

Paper is much cheaper.

Are you saying you have paper that responds to touch inputs and can turn your scribbles into plain text to be saved to a file or sent as email?

Or is that your way of acknowledging that a stylus is sometimes useful?

[patrickl]

The interface/input has to be precise, responsive, and fluid, otherwise it's a no-go. And that last pic with the STYLUS made me LOL. A stylus? In 2010?! Seriously?

How's the handwriting recognition on the ipad working for you?

Paper is much cheaper.

Are you saying you have paper that responds to touch inputs and can turn your scribbles into plain text to be saved to a file or sent as email?

Or is that your way of acknowledging that a stylus is sometimes useful?

The Pulse smartpen from Livescribe sort of does that

http://www.livescribe.com/

A stylus has it's uses. It can prevent the need for zooming in and out, keeps your screen clean, doesn't get in the way so much as a big finger on the screen etc

[shmokes]

As a student, I LOVED the Pulse Smartpen.  I lost mine, though.  Much easier to lose than an iPad.

[patrickl]

As a student, I LOVED the Pulse Smartpen.  I lost mine, though.  Much easier to lose than an iPad.

Mine stopped working. Amazingly they sent me a new one free of charge. I took some insisting on my part, but still.

I sold a few other people on that pen so they owe me

I was wondering if the Courier could have replaced the Pulse pen though. Guess now I never will know, lol.

[RayB]

Are you saying you have paper that responds to touch inputs and can turn your scribbles into plain text to be saved to a file or sent as email?

Or is that your way of acknowledging that a stylus is sometimes useful?

If I need to hand-write, I will do it on paper. I don't know about you, but my PC has no stylus. I get along quite well with the keyboard. Stylus input is archaic unless you need to capture signatures.

[Epyx]

Anyone know if there is a comic book reader app available?  That would be another cool use for the Ipad as I have tons of comics in comic book reader format.

[NiN^_^NiN]

http://blog.bigtimewireless.com/comics-manga-ipad/

[patrickl]

Are you saying you have paper that responds to touch inputs and can turn your scribbles into plain text to be saved to a file or sent as email?

Or is that your way of acknowledging that a stylus is sometimes useful?

If I need to hand-write, I will do it on paper. I don't know about you, but my PC has no stylus. I get along quite well with the keyboard. Stylus input is archaic unless you need to capture signatures.

Does a tablet have a keyboard?

[patrickl]

Anyone know if there is a comic book reader app available?  That would be another cool use for the Ipad as I have tons of comics in comic book reader format.

There are plenty of CBR/CBZ readers availaible. Those are basically ARJ or ZIP files with JPEG images so making a reader is pretty easy.

My kid reads comic books on the netbook. Or at least he looks at the pictures.