ipad anyone?

[RayB]

I'd try out one of the Slates / tablets first, see how well it tracks "touch" and handles motion. The thing about Apple's capacitive multitouch screens is they are the most accurate out of all the competing devices. Gotta give credit where credit is due...

Also, give it a year or two and they will new OS's for download that keep improving the product. Just look at 4.0. They've already addressed the multitasking complaints.

[Level42]

What actually is that HP slate (sleigh ?) running ?
It seriously looks clumsy compared to the iPad.

@patrick: I kinda more meant that Amp than the iPad
That amp easily costs a good multiple times the cost of the iPad.

The iPad will also double as navigation (yes TomTom available).

@Cheffo: Don't forget the total "bed worthynes"  of the iPad. I admit here that every once in a while I carry my company PC laptop into my bed to reference something really important (or so I claim) BUT, the set-up is clumsy in bed.
It's also noisy (both the stupid fan (that seems to make fun of blowing short "puffs" of hot air instead of running at a steady pace, making it sound like a whining cat) and the HD).

"O man, are you taking that iPad with you again ?"
"But darling, I'm reading my latest book !"

End of discussion. Then of course you can surf of to this forum and silently type some useful stuff. Or read PDF's

[CheffoJeffo]

What actually is that HP slate (sleigh ?) running ?
It seriously looks clumsy compared to the iPad.

Windows 7

@Cheffo: Don't forget the total "bed worthynes"  of the iPad. I admit here that every once in a while I carry my company PC laptop into my bed to reference something really important (or so I claim) BUT, the set-up is clumsy in bed.
It's also noisy (both the stupid fan (that seems to make fun of blowing short "puffs" of hot air instead of running at a steady pace, making it sound like a whining cat) and the HD).

I'm not ... for either the reading or the porn ...

 

[shmokes]

The iPad will also double as navigation (yes TomTom available).

This sounds pretty awful.  First I think the iPad doesn't have GPS in it unless you get the one with a built-in cellular modem for like $130 more or something.  On top of that, who would actually want this?  Where are you going to put the thing?  You really want a ten inch screen (plus one inch border) taking up a substantial proportion of your visibility?  And if you're not going to mount it on your dash, where will you put it?  On the passenger seat?  Looking down and to the right (or left Britons) to see the map doesn't sound very appealing or particularly safe.  And how much is this Tom Tom software going to cost?  In the end it seems to me that you'll get a much better experience from a dedicated 3-4" $80 device that will come with mounting hardware and a plug to draw power from your car's 12v outlet.

[syph007]

I finally got off of my butt and ordered 20 years worth of the Digital Archives of GameRoom Magazine on DVD. (highly recommended, BTW).

Hey that sounds like a really good idea.... is there a buy all for a bundled price, or is it a buck an issue for each?

[CheffoJeffo]

I finally got off of my butt and ordered 20 years worth of the Digital Archives of GameRoom Magazine on DVD. (highly recommended, BTW).

Hey that sounds like a really good idea.... is there a buy all for a bundled price, or is it a buck an issue for each?

$99 for all 20 years.

[hyiu]

I played with an ipad briefly over the wkend...

my impression is.... it is a oversize iphone, without the phone and the camera.
overall, I'm not impressed... pure personal opinion...
(I guess I want a little more out of it....)

my friend got it for his mom... so that she can just one click and check email, do some web surfing... and nothing much... but then, it's more fool proof than a laptop...

its pretty nice, but functionality-wise, not my cup of tea.

[shmokes]

I was an expert witness in a mock trial last Saturday and so I was sitting in the courtroom for a couple hours playing with my friend's iPad.  There are some things it doesn't do that it absolutely should do.  And I have philosophical issues with some of Apple's business practices, particularly with the iPad, that make me sort of disinclined to give them my money.  But it's a pretty cool device that works well and has a gajillion uses.  And I'm talking about actual I-would-use-this-daily type uses.  Considering that every tablet that has come before has approximately no usefulness whatsoever in the average person's daily life . . . well, I think that's gotta count for something.  I mean, the thing is deeply flawed.  And there are legit reasons to hate on Apple (though most Apple-hating has nothing to do with those reasons).  But this device is probably best in class at this point.

[patrickl]

Why is this tablet so useful while others have not been?

[shmokes]

First, because operating the OS and applications with a stylus is not very pleasant.  The iPad's touch interface works much better aside from actual writing, and for the most part nobody wants to write on a computer . . . that's what keyboards are for.

Second, because 99% of applications that run on Tablet PC were designed with a keyboard and mouse in mind.  100% of the applications on the iPad were designed with the touch interface in mind.

[patrickl]

There are plenty tablets with touch interfaces. In fact I doubt you'll find one that comes with a completely standard PC OS.

Don't quite get your remark about writing. I'd say most webbrowsing I do involves a lot of writing. How is writing on an iPad any different from any other tablet? In fact indeed most tablets come with a keyboard. Just flip the screen and you have a computer. Flip it back and you can read e-books or do simple webbrowsing.

BTW You should try watching a movie on a tablet device. I tried that once and next time I brought a netbook instead.

[shmokes]

I have one of the first tablet PCs.  It ran Windows XP Tablet PC edition.  The tablet functionality was tacked on.    The cursor also lags WAY behind the stylus.  I've been amazed to see that this lag was never corrected no matter how fast processors got.  Additionally, there was very little software designed specifically for Tablets, because the market was never very big.  Beginning with Windows Vista the tablet functionality was built into the OS, but it never stopped feeling tacked on, and software support remains negligible.

Your mention of convertible tablets actually illustrates my point.  Whenever an application works better with a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, just flip the screen around.  But since 99% of the software is designed with a keyboard/mouse in mind, you end up using your device's tablet functionality about 1% of the time.  I know many people who have had tablet PCs and for ALL of them it has been the same:  Seemed really cool, but it turned out that I never use it in tablet format.

The iPad is the opposite beast.  If you want a keyboard you have to buy it separately.  Every program is designed specifically to be used on a tablet.

Also, to answer your question, you don't write on an iPad.  There's no stylus (there is actually, but it's irrelevant to this discussion).  You only type.  And the on-screen keyboard works far far better than anything that Microsoft has done.  But more importantly is that it's not just the on-screen keyboard.  It's the entire user-interface.  It's how the on-screen keyboard works with the applications, which have been designed from the ground up to be used on a tablet device in every single way.  Mobile Safari is designed for a tablet in every way including methods of input.  Internet Explorer is designed from the ground up for a PC with a keyboard/mouse and repurposed for Tablet PC devices by tacking on a few poorly conceived, poorly executed new Tablet features.

In the end, it's just experience.  I've used them both, and they provide vastly different overall experiences.  The iPad is the far superior experience in almost every way.

[Level42]

So, do I understand correctly that they sell the 3G version without any locks and/or mandatory connections ?

That would be brilliant as I already have a 3G connection for my work laptop. If I could ask for a 2nd SIM-card, I would be all set. AND I could ask my aunt to send one over from the US

[RayB]

So simple a cat can use it:

[shmokes]

So, do I understand correctly that they sell the 3G version without any locks and/or mandatory connections ?

That would be brilliant as I already have a 3G connection for my work laptop. If I could ask for a 2nd SIM-card, I would be all set. AND I could ask my aunt to send one over from the US

I can't say whether there are any locks . . . I'm actually pretty sure it is locked into AT&T, but I could be wrong about that.  But it doesn't require a contract.  You can just pay for a month of data if and when you need it.

Moreover, though, it won't accept a regular SIM card.  It uses a mini-sim card.  Totally different formfactor, so your current SIM won't fit.

[patrickl]

I have one of the first tablet PCs.  It ran Windows XP Tablet PC edition.  The tablet functionality was tacked on.

The first tablet PC I've used ran on the pen version of Windows 3.1. I don't remember any lag, but that was in 93 so something that insignificant I wouldn't remember.

It's not just Tablet PC's. PDA's with big screens have been around for a while.

[/quote]Your mention of convertible tablets actually illustrates my point.  Whenever an application works better with a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, just flip the screen around.  But since 99% of the software is designed with a keyboard/mouse in mind, you end up using your device's tablet functionality about 1% of the time.  I know many people who have had tablet PCs and for ALL of them it has been the same:  Seemed really cool, but it turned out that I never use it in tablet format.[/quote]That's exactly my point. A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor. You don't want to hold something for an hour and a half watching a movie. You want to set it down. If you go to websites you tend to want to type stuff on a forum. If you want to send e-mails you want to type text.

The only time you want it to be a tablet is when you read an ebook or maybe when you play a game.

[CheffoJeffo]

A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor.

The issue would then be the definition of practical. You seem to be basing your arguments on the iPad as a replacement for other devices, which it is certainly not. I have notebooks and a netbook and I crave a tablet. I'm not getting rid of keyboarded computers -- I totally need those and they are brilliant for doing what I use them for.

You cite posting on forums as indicative of web surfing, when that is exactly the opposite of the majority of web surfing ... unless, perhaps, you are Chad. Even when I browse BYOAC on a normal computer, the vast majority of the time I don't post. I never post from my phone, but browse regularly.

If you are looking for fully-functional portable computing, then I agree 100% that non-keyboarded tablets aren't it.

It seems to me that you see things with the same mindset as the guy who thinks that he can only have one cabinet. He may be able to play Chiller on his MAME cab, but it won't match the experience of playing on my original Exidy AND I can still have my own MAME cab in the corner as well.

[shmokes]

Of course a platform is only as good as the software available for it (see: Atari Jaguar  )

The iPad already has a lot of stellar software available (check out the videos for Geometry Wars and Scrabble, among others), and developers falling all over themselves to get more software out there.

This is, of course, the obvious reason that the iPad will succeed where Windows tablets have failed. 

[shmokes]

I never really thought about it before, but considering the cost of an unsubsidized iPhone (more than $500 on Ebay), the iPad does seem comparatively inexpensive.

[patrickl]

A tablet is simply not a very practical device due to the formfactor.

The issue would then be the definition of practical. You seem to be basing your arguments on the iPad as a replacement for other devices, which it is certainly not. I have notebooks and a netbook and I crave a tablet. I'm not getting rid of keyboarded computers -- I totally need those and they are brilliant for doing what I use them for.

I'm just saying that a tablet has very limited applications over what a netbook can already do and then at twice the price. Yet there are more things a netbook can do that a tablet cannot.

So sure they both have their specific applications, but you have to be very gadget oriented and flush with cash to warrant purchasing both.

I have to agree that an iPad is relatively cheap though. In 2007 there were the UPMC's and they cost well over a 1000 euro and weighed a ton. Miniaturization and costs of the components dropping is what makes these devices even remotely viable today.

[CheffoJeffo]

So sure they both have their specific applications, but you have to be very gadget oriented and flush with cash to warrant purchasing both.

I definitely agree with that ... if Mrs Cheffo didn't need the netbook, I wouldn't be considering a tablet purchase.

[shmokes]

 Yet there are more things a netbook can do that a tablet cannot.

I think this actually illustrates a more subtle part of Apple's strategy, but a part that I think is instrumental in its success.  A netbook is just a PC.  It can do more or less whatever a PC can do, just slower, on a smaller screen and with inferior input hardware (compared to a desktop or full-sized laptop).

Conversely, Apple made its tablet the antithesis of it's desktop/laptop line.  They based it on their phone.  What this allows it to do is work perfectly.  Nothing barely runs on the iPad.  Nothing will run, but at an unacceptably choppy framerate.  If it works for the iPad it actually works exactly as intended.  And it works fast.  The device is super responsive.  You click something and it just opens instantly. 

So what initially seems like a score for netbooks (in the netbook v. iPad battle), and certainly is a score in many ways, also works against them.  Netbooks sort of give you the opportunity to be underwhelmed and frustrated when a program isn't working the way it should -- the way you expect the program to work.  You understand that t's because you're on a slow netbook, but that doesn't make the experience less frustrating.  By never purporting to do any of that stuff, Apple's got a better psychology going for it.  You don't resent your Microwave for being unable to toast bread.  But if you have a Microwave/Toaster Oven combo, but it toasts bread very unevenly and only on one side, it's frustrating and obnoxious.  You end up resenting the entire device a little because now you have to have a separate toaster, even though it is actually a perfectly good microwave and if you had a normal microwave you'd still have to have a separate toaster.

And so on . . . don't ask me where all that came from.   

[patrickl]

While all that is true in theory. It doesn't really translate to reality. There are specific functions that you want to perform like "browse the web", "watch movies" or "read e-books". If this is done by an app that starts in 1 second or 2 seconds doesn't really matter.

Besides, if you want to run downscaled (fast starting) software on your netbook you can do that too.

You could also get an Android netbook. That's also a "PDA OS" for use on low tech hardware with dumbed down standard software.

[shmokes]

It's opposite.  What you just said is the "true in theory" stuff.  You're all about, "you could do this, you can do this . . ."  On the iPad we're talking about what you actually do.

Look, Patrick, have you ever heard of the Apple TV?  How many people do you know who have one?  Exactly.  Apple doesn't just get a pass, particularly when entering a new market.  You can rationalize it away all you want, but it's not just the Apple cult mentality at work here.  The iPad is simply a better product than any previous tablet.  That doesn't mean that it can do more, or is more powerful.  It means that it works for people in a way that people want a device like that to work for them.

[Level42]

Patrick starts to sound like a broken record-tic-broken record-tic-broken record.

You can keep repeating all your meager arguments as much as you want, the iPad will be one big fat hit, weather you like it or not. Shmokes says like it is. It's about the total concept.

Oh, and if you would have actually taken a second to surf to Apple's website you'd learn that you can get a nice case that doubles as a stand for watching movies etc. because you keep mentioning the fact that keeping it in your hands isn't very comfortable.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/IPAD_CASE?mco=MTc0MjU1OTM

Or you can get the keyboard dock if you want a real keyboard.

[patrickl]

It's not about the concept. It's about the brand.

[shmokes]

Apple TV baby!!!

[patrickl]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

Sure I would never buy anything from Apple. I don't want to buy devices that are purposefully crippled just so they can enslave me to their content. Same reason why I didn't buy a Sony e-book reader.

Obviously my dislike for Apple doesn't explain why I wouldn't buy a similar Android or Windows Mobile 7 device.

I buy a device for a set of functions and not for a "mythical concept". Although I agree that "concept" myth is probably what is pushing the impulse buyers to *must have* one of these.

I have a PDA/phone with a 5" screen, an ebook reader with a 10" screen and a netbook with a 10" screen. I'm a gadget freak so I'd ultimately probably buy all devices, but if I have to make the choice between buying a netbook and a 10" pda, I would go for the netbook. It's as simple as that. Nothing sinister about it.

The only tablet type device I'm looking forward to is the Courier, but that's more from a "business use" point of view. I'd love to get rid of my notes and replace the Livescribe pen with a digital paper version.

[Blanka]

Are there any statistics on 65+ users yet? I really feel this is going to be the retarded gadget of 2010!

[Blanka]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

I do like the hardware from Apple. I bet no other tablet is going to have IPS or PVA screens, that's a thing I really like about Apples offering. The OS on the other hand sucks big time. I want old-school full-file access and USB mass storage compatibility on any mobile device with access to every file on it, period!

[shmokes]

Obviously my dislike for Apple doesn't explain why I wouldn't buy a similar Android or Windows Mobile 7 device.

I buy a device for a set of functions and not for a "mythical concept".

Um . . . between the iPad and Windows Mobile 7 I think only one is still a concept.

[patrickl]

This is not even remotely about Apple. Maybe for tiresome fanboys like Level42, but people with free minds realize that other manufacturers have been working on big screen pda's for a while too.

I do like the hardware from Apple. I bet no other tablet is going to have IPS or PVA screens, that's a thing I really like about Apples offering.

I'd rather have a screen with LED technology than LCD.

[shmokes]

Um . . . are you talking about an LED backlit LCD?  Or are you talking about one of those ginormous LED displays they put up in sports stadiums?

[protokatie]

Actually, LED based displays are the "in" thing now. They are replacing LCD as the display tech. I am not talking about the big 40 foot screens that have been around for decades. Regardless, led is the new thing. Say WAY goodbye to plasma.

Edit: you do know that oled is a form of led display that has been in use for years, right?

[Blanka]

Actually, LED based displays are the "in" thing now. They are replacing LCD as the display tech.

These LED displays are still as LCD as LCD can be! They are not REPLACING LCD! They are replacing CCFL backlight.
And you know what, CCFL is still better than LED for backlight in many cases. RGB-LED backlights are too expensive, and the CCFL backlight phosphors deliver way more colours (bigger gamut) than white LED backlights do.

[patrickl]

Wow sorry, I though this was common knowledge. I'm talking about the OLED/AMOLED displays that protokatie is talking about. In those the LED's replace the backlight+LCD.

These displays have been the standard in the new (higher end) phones that have been coming out over the last year. They offer higher contrast, more vibrant colors and consume less energy.

You can replace CCFL with LEDs, but that's still an LCD display. Not sure why CCFL is mentioned since, for obvious reasons, there has never been a CCFL in a phone or PDA. Indeed that's why PDA/Phones displays often suffer in color reproduction.

[Blanka]

Yes, but except from one horrible expensive Sony, OLED is only used for tiny, I mean REALLY tiny screens (1,5x1,5 inch 120x120 pixels, stuff like that). Even a smartphone has LED backlit LCD's as OLED is too expensive for that.
iPad is in the segment of sub-notebook displays, and they used to be CCFL backlit LCD's and are getting more and more white-LED-backlit now.
OLED for 10 inch mainstream gadgets is 2013's dream I guess.

[patrickl]

You are a bit behind on the news. Again, the latest smartphones have been coming out with AMOLED screens for at least a year. These are 3.5" to 4" screens. Netbooks with AMOLED are presented already. Although I don't think they are for sale yet.

The biggest issue is that Apple works with LG (and not Samsung) and LG has very limited AMOLED production. So of course LG couldn't produce enough of them for the iPad no. That doesn't make it a dream.

You claimed that the best screens are IPS or PVA. While in fact that technology is soooo 2008

[Vanguard]

Nexus One has an AMOLED screen.

And to Shmokes comment, Window Mobile Phone 7 is hardly a concept. 

[shmokes]

You're just mincing words here when surely you understood my point and my choice of words.  Patrick referred to the iPad as a "mythical concept" immediately after saying that he would by a Windows Mobile 7 device.  Of course Windows Phone 7 devices won't be out until Q4 of this year, I believe (at the very least they are definitely not out now).  I'm sure you can see the irony calling the one that is on store shelves a mythical concept.

Not only that but Windows Phone 7 is still a concept.  We do not know for sure what features will make it into the shipping product, and some of the announced features could obviously still get the 11th hour axe (see WinFS)