Stargate cab to MAME cab conversion

[JohnnyG]

Hello everyone!  I am new to these forums, but have been interested in MAME for years.  In the past my wife and I have talked about building a MAME cabinet, but it always seemed to drop by the wayside.  However, last weekend she came home with an old Stargate cabinet that she was able to pick up locally for $50, and the dream was alive once again!  Yay!

Of course, there is still a great challenge ahead of us.  Here are some picks of the cabinet for everyone to get an idea of what we are up against...

















As you can see, this guy isn't in the best of shape.  I really can't see trying to maintain the side art, and I am going to have to cut off some of the bottom to repair it.  Thankfully I found the Water Damage base repair - Generic BnB cabinet topic on how to do that.

So at this point I am looking to sand down the entire thing, repair the damage at the bottom, and probably just give it a really nice black coat of paint (well, several coats to get it right, but you get the idea).

Now, being my first project, and me not being terribly good at woodworking (my step-father will be helping me out), we have to decided to do this entire project on a tight budget.  The only exception will be the control panel and the controls it contains.

In regards to the control panel, I really want to use 2 quality joysticks (probably the Ultimarc UltraStik 360's), seven player buttons (for maximum playability), a 3" trackball, two side buttons for pinball emulation flippers, and control buttons (1 and 2 player start, 1 and 2 player coins, pause, exit game, reset game, and system shutdown).  For the fourteen player buttons, I am considering using the GroovyGameGear Micro-Leaf switches, and for the rest using normal buttons with microswitch's.

Obviously this will not all fit in the standard Stargate control panel, so my plan is to remove that CP and work with my step-dad to build a new one that will use the same mounting equipment, but will extend somewhat from the front of the cab.  Now, I am in no way looking to follow this guy's lead and build some uber-monstrosity, but rather something that will comfortably fit the controls without being too obtrusive.  I have yet to sketch it out, but I think that something that will jut out about 12-15 inches will be more than adequate.

Also, being on a budget, and slightly more concerned with picture quality than authenticity, I am planning to use a 19" computer monitor that I got for a friend by paying for his lunch one day.     I understand the reason why the guy who built the giant control panel for his Stargate cabinet cut the sides, but by staying with the 19" monitor not going anywhere near the edges, and my control panel not likely to go more than a few inches out to from each side of the cabinet, I won't have to worry about not being able to see the whole screen from either side.

Being so new at this, I will be looking for lots of advice from everyone on their opinions on how to proceed.  Perhaps by the time we're done, we'll have a good "How to convert an old cab for dummies" thread for others to use (me being the dummy in this case).  For now, I have several questions that I would like some immediate help with...

1) What software would you guys recommend for designing the control panel?  I saw the flash-based one that was referenced in Project Arcade (though it seems to have moved from its original site, I found it elsewhere), but it seems overly simplistic and hard to work with (unless I'm missing something).  I own and use Photoshop a lot, but that really doesn't seem like the best tool to use for this.  Any ideas and thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated.

2) Assuming I do use the Ultimarc UltraStik 360's, I know that they have 8 connectors for buttons built-in.  Not knowing anything about them, how are they configured?  Also, what is the purpose of the restrictor plates and different springs? And will they be adequate for 4-way games like Pac-man?

3) If I use the Ultimarc UltraStik 360's for the bulk of the buttons, what should I use for the rest?  The I-Pac?  MiniPac?  Something else?

4) Since I want to use a trackball, what do people recommend?  Is there a good one that can simply be plugged into a USB port, or do I need something more (like an OptiPAC)?

5) Should I even bother trying to get Windows 98 SE on a machine (since it uses less resources), or should I just go with Windows XP.  If I do go with XP, should I load service packs, and if so, which level?

6) Since I want to be able to run Daphne (for Dragon's Lair and Space Ace), and some of the more recent games (meaning up to the last three to four years), what level processor and video card should I have?

7) Which version of MAME do you guys recommend.  I tried MameUI32 (.134) and it seems like a lot of ROMs won't work with it.  Then I tried Mame32 (.79) and the same ROMs worked.  I am curious if there is a level that people consider the "sweet-spot" of usage, reliability, and features.

I think that is more than enough for now to get me started.  Any and all help will be most appreciated, and I look forward to working with everyone here.

[Franco B]

Dude, I hate to say this but step away from the machine.

At the end of the day it is your machine and you can do what you like with it but I suggest you sell it on and buy a generic cab. If you do decide to keep it I pray you will mame it carefully and with respect. Whatever you do, I suggest you take a look [here] for what not to do.

[JohnnyG]

Dude, I hate to say this but step away from the machine.

At the end of the day it is your machine and you can do what you like with it but I suggest you sell it on and buy a generic cab. If you do decide to keep it I pray you will mame it carefully and with respect. Whatever you do, I suggest you take a look [here] for what not to do.

Well, thanks for responding I suppose.  Did you even read my post?  I specifically referenced that exact project twice and said I planned to do nothing of that nature.  The cab will be kept in tact with the addition of a different control panel that won't impact the structure of the cab at all.  Yes it will obviously be bigger than the original CP, but nothing like the monstrosity in that post.

As for selling it, I am curious what I would be able to get for it in the condition it is in.  Of course, being new to the community, I am not really sure if I could get enough that I could then use to put towards a better cab.

[versapak]

Dude, I hate to say this but step away from the machine.

At the end of the day it is your machine and you can do what you like with it but I suggest you sell it on and buy a generic cab. If you do decide to keep it I pray you will mame it carefully and with respect. Whatever you do, I suggest you take a look [here] for what not to do.

You mean the very same link he posted that he would NOT be doing?  

[Franco B]

God I feel like a fool

Long story short but I may have had a shandy or too. I kinda skimmed your post and missed out the important bits 

All saw was stargate cab  + Mame and the nightmares came flooding back.

My apologies once again. I would like to give you a belated welcome to the forum. I am sorry if I have come over like a tool.

I will give you as much help as I can tomorrow when I can focus properly. 

[JohnnyG]

God I feel like a fool

Long story short but I may have had a shandy or too. I kinda skimmed your post and missed out the important bits 

All saw was stargate cab  + Mame and the nightmares came flooding back.

My apologies once again. I would like to give you a belated welcome to the forum. I am sorry if I have come over like a tool.

I will give you as much help as I can tomorrow when I can focus properly. 

It's all good.  Thanks for responding and I look forward to any insight you can offer. 

[JohnnyG]

Well, I decided to use Photoshop to do a quick mock-up to respresent the measurements I am aiming for with the new CP.  Of course, any ideas for better software to accomplish this would be greatly appreciated.  Anyhow, here is the sketch...



Now, the black bars represent the sides of the cabinet.  The gray area is roughly where the old control panel fit (and in that area is where the 1 and 2 player start and coin buttons will go, and probably the pause and reset game ones).  The rest of the CP follows the rough template of the one in the Project Arcade book, but slightly modified for this case.  Also, because 7 1/8" of is inside the cab, only 12 7/8" will actually stick out from it.

I made a cardboard cutout to match the size to see how it looked, and I was satisfied with the results.  If you guys want to see a picture of that, I can do one tomorrow.  Just let me know.

Also, if you have any suggestions/complaints/comments on the CP design, I am open to them.

[syph007]

That looks decent to me.  Personally, I prefer a rounded front vs the angles.  It's more of a pain to cut but I think it's worth the effort for the end result, but again that's just preference, and it has to fit the look of the machine.

I think it's fine to use the cab for MAME as long as you don't cut the original wood at all.  That was my first big slap in the face from that other bad bad thread, and I'm sure that's what most of us thought of when they saw your thread title.  I'm just waiting for someone to come in and make a thread about cutting 2 stargates in half and gluing them together to make a 4P cab... oh man that would be a fun thread to read...

[opt2not]

Well, I decided to use Photoshop to do a quick mock-up to respresent the measurements I am aiming for with the new CP.  Of course, any ideas for better software to accomplish this would be greatly appreciated. 

Personally I don't see anything wrong with using Photoshop to plan out stuff. That's what I use, for both concepts and schematics! If you've used PS a bunch, and are familiar with it, just go with what's comfortable. You can achieve the same outcome, and it's not like you're doing anything too complicated that requires a CAD-like program.

Good luck with repairing the damage, that bottom damage is just brutal.  I'm interested in seeing how you tackle that one, for my own personal reference.

[JohnnyG]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with using Photoshop to plan out stuff. That's what I use, for both concepts and schematics! If you've used PS a bunch, and are familiar with it, just go with what's comfortable. You can achieve the same outcome, and it's not like you're doing anything too complicated that requires a CAD-like program.

Good luck with repairing the damage, that bottom damage is just brutal.  I'm interested in seeing how you tackle that one, for my own personal reference.

Well, for the sides, I was planning on doing the procedure represented in this thread...

Water Damage base repair - Generic BnB cabinet

Yes, I realize that I have to cut the cabinet to do it, but I really can't see a better way to handle it.

Doing to same procedure on the front bottom will not be so simple.  For that one I will more than likely have to cover it up.  Perhaps a metal kick plate?  Something else?  Anybody have any recommendations?

Also, does anyone have any answers for me on any of the 7 questions on my first post?  Even if it's just the answer to one or two, that would be great!  Thanks.

[JohnnyG]

Doing to same procedure on the front bottom will not be so simple.  For that one I will more than likely have to cover it up.  Perhaps a metal kick plate?  Something else?  Anybody have any recommendations?

After a more thorough examination of the cab today, I found that when I cut the two parts of the bottom sides to replace them, that I will then have the room to do the same with the front, so it will all work out.  I'm excited to see how that all turns out.  It should make that part of the cab as good as new (crosses fingers).

Also, here are pics of the cardboard cutout that I made of the top of the control panel sitting inside the cab to give a better indication of the scale...







Personally I think that is more than acceptable.  I might round the corners a bit in the final version, but overall I think it will work well.  Any opinions?

And, of course, any answers to my questions will be met with great enthusiasm on my part!   

[syph007]

I know you want to have every answer to all things before you start, (like I remember thinking) but there is no way you will know all you need to, before you even get started.  Concentrate on learning about one thing at a time as you go through the phases.  Like you are going to be starting on woodworking, so focus on that, etc etc.

Some quick answers for you.

1.  Use whatever you want as long as you can work to scale and have templates to manuipulate to scale.  I like vectors tools for this, illustrator or inkscape.  I make templates of every control, then multi layers drawing to use for mockups.  Bottom layer control box, next panel, then control bases, then the top would be what you'd see above the graphics (i.e. joystick handles and not bases)  But as you can see use whatever you want.

2.  you get 8 buttons to use however you want, they appear to the PC as joystick buttons, not keyboard buttons.  You will want the hard springs and circular restrictors for the best overall experience.

3.  For admin buttons you can use ANYTHING you want.  Any encoder or even a hacked keyboard.  Everything is configurable.

4.  Buy whatever works out to be cheaper.  Built in USB ones are fine, but cost more.  I bought a used golden tee one, and got a cheap optiwiz to interface it.

5.  My opinion is to not bother with win 98.  XP is the way to go, lots and lots of addons and nice little utilities/tweaks. I use TinyXP.

6.  Get as much pc as you want to spend.  The more cpu you can get, the more of the 3d type games you will be able to run in MAME.  I wouldnt bother with anything less than a P4 2.8 ish... but it's highly subjective as its highly dependant on what games are important to you.  I doubt daphne has super high requirements, but I dont know what the minimums are.

7.  Do some reading, you likely have mismatched roms and mame versions.  Example, I have mame 0.133 and can run the MAME 0.133 MAME rom set.  The rom sets change per version, so you cant download a mame rom and expect it to work in any version.

Take your time man, enjoy the build.  People will also give you much more advice as you go and have specific issues/questions.  It's a super fun hobby by the way!

[JohnnyG]

I know you want to have every answer to all things before you start, (like I remember thinking) but there is no way you will know all you need to, before you even get started.  Concentrate on learning about one thing at a time as you go through the phases.  Like you are going to be starting on woodworking, so focus on that, etc etc.

LOL, ain't that the truth.    Okay, I will settle back and take it more slowly.    I will respond to a few of your answers below...

1.  Use whatever you want as long as you can work to scale and have templates to manuipulate to scale.  I like vectors tools for this, illustrator or inkscape.  I make templates of every control, then multi layers drawing to use for mockups.  Bottom layer control box, next panel, then control bases, then the top would be what you'd see above the graphics (i.e. joystick handles and not bases)  But as you can see use whatever you want.

Actually I saw in another thread where someone recommended Google SketchUp.  I have started playing with it a little (since it's free) and am blown away.  I think I might have a winner with that one.  I believe it does support layers, so I will certainly use your advice about that.

2.  you get 8 buttons to use however you want, they appear to the PC as joystick buttons, not keyboard buttons.  You will want the hard springs and circular restrictors for the best overall experience.

Will configuring the joysticks with the springs and circular restrictors allow for decent 4-way game playing?  I really don't want to have to use a separate joystick just for that if I don't have to.

7.  Do some reading, you likely have mismatched roms and mame versions.  Example, I have mame 0.133 and can run the MAME 0.133 MAME rom set.  The rom sets change per version, so you cant download a mame rom and expect it to work in any version.

I wasn't aware of that.  Thanks for the information.  I will send you a PM for further clarification.

Take your time man, enjoy the build.  People will also give you much more advice as you go and have specific issues/questions.  It's a super fun hobby by the way!

Good advice.  I will try to keep it to one or two questions at a time.  Thanks again for responding!  I really appreciate it. 

[JohnnyG]

Okay, I am getting close to ordering the items I will need for the Control Panel.  Here is what I am looking to purchase.  Can you guys tell me if you see any glaring holes in what I am looking for?

Ultimarc order

Joysticks
2 x UltraStik 360 Oval Top with USB cable
2 x UltraStik 360 Optional Hard Spring
2 x UltraStik Button / Encoder Harness
2 x UltraStik Restrictor Plate Kits (round)

Keyboard Encoder
1 x I-PAC 2 Interface with USB Cable


GroovyGameGear order

Trackball
1 x Electric ICE-T™ Deluxe RGB Arcade Trackball V2.0 (3 inch)

Buttons
2 x NovaGem™ Lightable Horizontal Pushbutton (Player 1 & 2 start buttons)
2 x PGI™ - Pushbutton Graphic Inserts (1 for Player 1, and 1 for Player 2)
14 x Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP™ (these are the main player buttons, and I haven't decided on the colors yet, I also decided to use regular switches for now to reduce what costs I can)
4 x Horizontal Pushbutton - HAPP™ (for control buttons)
2 x NovaGemCDR™ Coin Drop Replacement Pushbutton (these will replace the real slots in the coin door and be used for adding credits)


Unknown (need help with)

* Side buttons - For pinball emulation games.  I don't really know if the normal buttons will work, or if I should aim for something else.  What do you guys think?

* Wiring and connectors - I haven't decided yet what gauge wire to use.  I am thinking 20 gauge stranded with crimped connectors will work out okay.  Any thoughts?


That about covers it.  Anything missing?  Anything that just seems plain wrong?  Thanks again.

 

[JohnnyG]

Well, I figured I would post an update on my progress.

I placed the joystick order with Ultimarc and it already came in.  I was surprised it was this quick coming from the UK, but I am certainly not going to complain!    Also, I decided against the I-Pac.  I am going to use the the LED-Wiz+GP™ 16 Output + 16 Input product which will give me enough additional inputs for my control buttons (since the player buttons will be handled by the joysticks), and also help with the LED illumination of the Player 1 and Player 2 buttons.

Anyhow, I am still a ways off on that part, but I have gotten some sanding done.  I have sanded the outside of the cab on the sides and lower front as seen in these pics...







I only did the rough sanding, and still plan to go over the areas again with 100 grit, and then 220 grit sandpaper, but that will be after I fill in the defects with wood putty.  I also need to sand on the inside of the cabinet up where the monitor will reside.  I will do that before the end of the weekend.

Tonight my step-father will be helping me with repairing the water damage at the bottom of the cabinet, and I am looking forward to that.  I will send out pics once that is complete.

Also, for those that are interested, I posted the following thread regarding my William's Coin Box Door.  I think I am just going to try to hammer the dents out as much as possible, strip the paint off, and then re-paint it.  I can accept some imperfection for that part of the cab.  I also ordered replacement locks for that door and the normal coin slot door through SirPeale and his Anyone need cam locks for your coin door or back door? thread.  I am looking forward to those arriving as well.

[MameMaster!]

My cab is also an old trashed Star gate. Here's my updated  thread from 2004, and the second one was my "re launch" of my updated updated ( ) cab turning it into my current cab-- "Mame Invaders™".

I built it in 2001-- and re did it in 2004
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=10%3baction=display%3bthreadid=22665

Revised yet again--
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70436.msg721296#msg721296

 

[JohnnyG]

Here is a small update.  The water damage at the bottom has been repaired and here are a few pics...







Sanding has been completed and primer is next.  Also, I have placed the order with GroovyGameGear and am now just waiting for it to show up.

[drventure]

Nice work on the water damage cleanup.

I gotta say. the CP sticking out the front doesn't quite look right to me on that particular style cab. Don't know why right off hand. and I'm no purist, so it's not a case of "Ack don't violate that Stargate!" or anything like that.

Maybe it's the lack of thickness in your mockup that's throwing me.

Regardless. Also have to say, any wife that'll come home with a stargate cab unannounced flat rocks in my book 

[opt2not]

I agree with drventure for the same reasons. The CP just seems awkward sticking out like that. Maybe it's the length of it sticking out that's throwing me off.

Good job with the repair! 

[JohnnyG]

Well folks, I dropped off the grid for quite a while, mostly due to lack of motivation on my part.  The cabinet sat in my home office gathering dust while I was simply just being lazy.  But less than two weeks ago I finally got hit with the bug again and I have been working in all my spare time.  So here is my latest status update (with many more to follow soon I hope).

First, here is the paint job on the cab itself.  After the sanding was done last before, two coats of primer were done (with sanding in between) and then two coats of semi-gloss black paint (with sanding after the first coat).  Overall, I think it turned out very well...





Now, I spent a lot of time trying to come up with the best layout for my control panel.  I came up with a design that I felt would work well for my needs (while also cutting nearly 1 1/2" off the depth).  I then created a template and cut it out in cardboard.  I mounted the buttons and joystick to make sure it felt okay, made a few minor adjustments and then finally started working on the CP.

After finishing the final template in Photoshop, I printed it out, got the supplies for the CP (mdf boards, and acrylic sheet, and a few other minor things) and headed to my parents house to work with my step-dad.  We spent a lot of time measuring, cutting, etc.  Here are the final results...















Cutting the acrylic was an absolute nightmare.  The finest jigsaw blade we had still cracked the plastic, and nothing else seemed to work.  Finally, we cut it as close as we could to the shape of the control panel top, and then used a belt sander to work it closer, and finally a hand sander to get it perfect.  Really annoying, but it worked in the end.

Of course, cutting the holes was in the acrylic was tough too.  The larger arrow-shaped bits we normally use for cutting bigger holes cracked the acrylic, and we didn't have a circular bit that was the 1 1/8" we needed, so I had to go buy one.  Once we did, we were able to finally get the holes drilled.  The whole control panel took most of the day, but I am happy with the way it turned out.

The next part I worked on was putting glides on the bottom of the case to make for easier movement, and also to help keep it perfectly level.  I had thought about casters, but decided against them.  The problem with glides was that there was no easy secure place to put them, so I cut blocks and secured them to the bottom of the case.  Then the glides were attached to those blocks.  They work very well...







The final piece for this update it related to the water damage at the top of the case.  Here are two pictures of what the damage looked like...





The only way I could think to handle this problem was to take a belt sander to the top to clean up as much as possible.  Here is what it looks like now...



Too much broke off on the right side, so I will need to use some spackle or something to build it up, and then the whole top will be covered by thin 1/8" board cut to the exact size and painted black.  That should help clean it up nicely.

Anyhow, I look forward to any thoughts/comments.

[JohnnyG]

Here's another update for you guys.  This one is completely about the control panel.

Here are some pics of the CP primed and painted (I left the inside of the base as grey because I felt like it   )...













Overall, I am content with how the painting went.  Notice the routed sections around the trackball hole.  I purchased an Electric ICE-T Deluxe Trackball, and decided on the Super High Trackball Install Kit.  I'm quite happy that I did.

Also, for attaching the top of the control panel top to the base, I decided to simply use 4 cabinet roller catches that I bought at Home Depot for 89cents each.  The thing holds very nicely, but is also easy to pull off with enough of a tug.  Here are a few images...





Anyhow, as for the CP art, I realized after the fact that I really should've designed the whole template with graphics upfront before I cut anything.  By trying to do it afterward, it was going to be nearly impossible to get things to line up exactly.  So I decided to take the coward's way out.  I search quite a while online and found an awesome image on zazzle.com.  It only cost $20 to have a 34.50" x 23.00" image printed, which was a little wider than I needed, and gave me plenty of height to work with.  Here is a picture of it...



Obviously the little quote wasn't going to stay, but I am supremely happy with the way the rest of it looks.  I also decided to turn it upside-down.  Then it was time to clean the plexiglass, trim the post, and put it together.  Here are the results...







I am VERY happy with how it turned out.  I think that once I get the trackball light, the lights for the top six buttons, and also the lights for the coin buttons all working, it is going to be amazing.  What do you guys think?

The next step is to work on the wiring (a wonderfully tedious task ).   I also need to get the T-Molding for the CP and cabinet.  Originally I was going to use simple black for it all, but I have been re-thinking it.  Because of the imperfections on the edges of the old cabinet, I am going to use the black t-molding that has a lip on both sides.  That will help cover some of those defects.  But for the CP I am thinking about possibly using a different color.  Not sure yet.  I have ordered several free samples from t-molding.com and we'll see how they look when they get here.

[RayB]

Beautiful! The trackball will look great lit up a bright yellow

[JohnnyG]

Thanks RayB.

Well, the wiring is all done.  I didn't take a picture of the wiring itself, but it is rather tidy.  I might include a picture later.  Here is picture of the CP completely lighted up...



Both joysticks and the trackball work, and all the buttons associated with them.  The coin buttons on the front are working, as do all the control buttons except one (which I am still playing around with).  Overall, I am very satisfied with the results.  Now I just need to decide on the t-molding and also mount it.  Seems like it's never ending. 

[JohnnyG]

My only complaint at the moment is that the acrylic edges are really sharp, and I don't want people to hurt themselves.  I was thinking of using a fine grit sandpaper (220 probably) and my hand sander to dull them slightly, but I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about better possible solutions.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Generic Eric]

My only complaint at the moment is that the acrylic edges are really sharp, and I don't want people to hurt themselves.  I was thinking of using a fine grit sandpaper (220 probably) and my hand sander to dull them slightly, but I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about better possible solutions.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

I can't point to any examples, but I recall seeing the edges routed on some cabs.