Discussion: Ultracade and the Mame Trademark

[Dexter]

Yep, if I had it for the last cocktail I built I would have devoted the front panel to a spinner, trackball and analog stick, or....not having a control panel at the front at all, you could change the dimensions of the cabinet to incorporate a bigger monitor without changing the overall space it takes up.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Who is going to trust this guy?  Other companies?  Please.  He committed a crime by filing the application.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is "within the jurisdiction" of the federal bureaucracy. [ripped from a site]

  And here is the crime in all of it's glory!!

Do you know whats funny?

If he won you could contest it cause he didn't fill out the form properly

he didn't state 04 just 4 which isn't standard which means it could be thrown out 

Just a thought 

[Crazy Cooter]

Boycott Arcade Legends and Ultracade!

[/b]

Application still "not assigned" to an examiner...

[daywane]

Boycott Arcade Legends and Ultracade!

[/b]

Application still "not assigned" to an examiner...

I don't think any examiner wants to ...
I would come to think about it
declined.....

[RetroJames]

ANd actually, THAT idea deserves a full thread. A double image cocktail mode for playing non cocktail horizontal games on vertical cocktails is something that A LOT of people would probably really enjoy.

I would really like to see a "dumb terminal" bartop project.  I mentioned this in the Projects section under the NeoGeo bartop.  The idea being that you create a second bartop that is a dumb terminal with a monitor that mirrors the fist bartop's image.  The controls would be wired to the first and simply be player two.  Then you could have real head-to-head action on fighter bartop cabinets.  "Hey!  You Sunk My MegaMan!"

[IntruderAlert]

I predict that someone will take a hard drive image out of an ultracade, crack the security on it, and then release the image to the world.

I predict that someone will take a hard drive image out of an ultracade, crack the security on it, and then find out that it's really M.A.M.E. 

[GGKoul]

I was thinking about DF iRoms program.  And I'm wondering...  I think half of the companies that made games that are in MAME are long gone.  So who would profit from that sale of that rom?  DF?  Or would that game never be available on iROMS because there was no legal enity that one could sign an publishing agreement with? 

If it wasn't for MAME, most of these games would have been forgotten about a long time ago.

[RetroJames]

I was thinking about DF iRoms program.

[SirPoonga]

I was thinking about DF iRoms program.

[GGKoul]

Considering the amount of games and bootlegs in MAME.  It'll take a long time too figure out who currently owns what.

[SirPoonga]

But you gotta start somewhere.  And I wouldn't even worry about the bootlegs.  The parents will get you most of what people will want.

[GGKoul]

So the question is.. why would publishers sell to DF when they can release a "10-in-1" joystick/rom combo and sell thousands of them and cut out the middle man?

[SirPoonga]

Because that's a different market.  how many BYOACers are going to hook up each of those 10-in-1s to their arcade cabinet?

[IntruderAlert]

[Thenasty]

a game running on it...

[scatter]

About the Ultracade HD Image. Just FYI. The one I dissected  few monthas ago used a propriery OS called JoshuaOS. An image of the drive was easy enough but  the kernel was over my head to figure out. The whole thing (HD) was locked to the hardware via key generated based on your hardware and that tied to your serial and your unlock code. Pretty standard security except for the OS.

b

[Crazy Cooter]

lol.

[Crazy Cooter]

That link says "System99" is the same as Ultracade.

[Shape D.]

Lets see what we can do about pulling the plug...

If you were a woman I'd kiss you.

[emdkay]

and you all thought this thread was moot 

[btoddkelley]

Did you guys read about that OS? I wonder what that would be like on a mame cab? 1sec boot time sounds NICE!
Todd

[GGKoul]

Did you guys read about that OS? I wonder what that would be like on a mame cab? 1sec boot time sounds NICE!
Todd

I'm going to try and install this, this weekend...

JoshuaOS

[GGKoul]

Hey!!

Here is a FE that runs like Ultracades FE!!!

http://www.mameworld.net/ultrastyle/

[daywane]

wow with 2000+ posts you just found out about that FE.   

Thats funny.
I like it but never got it up and running.  I should try again.

[GGKoul]

wow with 2000+ posts you just found out about that FE.

[Havok]

Here's a good read:

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

ROMs are legal - if you own the original equipment. I point you to this paragraph:

"(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace."

There are grey areas, to be sure, however it can certainly be argued that they are obsolete (sigh!)

And my two cents about iROMS - not me, not now, not ever.

Star ROMs - You bet!

[paigeoliver]

And also note, the releases are NOT the same programs. They are always different. The Ms. Pac-Mans and Galaga's released in 2001 contain new code and are not the same programs.

If you can't buy it brand new from the distributor or obtain it easily through normal distribution chains then it is obsolete. Note the idea of normal distribution chains? That doesn't mean buying that (possibly bootleg, could be broken, probably will break next week) PCB from gameZDude69 (Feedback 82 percent) on ebay.

The lovely lovely part of that part of the law is that fact that it does not define the hardware. I can no longer render "Galaga" because my cabinet has fallen apart, molded, and rusted away to the point where the only thing left is the marquee rail, but I can still render the game thanks to exception number 3.

[paigeoliver]

Hmm, I just perused Ultracades offerings in the recent Happ catalog.

They are completely missing the boat.

Their universal conversion kit is $1495.

If they could get a non-commercial (home use, all games locked to free play) Universal conversion kit out there for $995 then they would sell, sell, sell. People pay $695 now for the crappy 39 in 1.

Most of the builder's that are competing with them would start using their products instead of Mame.

At $1500 the amateur builders can't turn a profit using their kits. I could get about $2000 for a nice clean 25" Ultracade equipped cabinet, and probably $1800 for a 19" one. But with their current kit prices I couldn't turn a profit. But if they had a non-commercial kit (which would be cheaper for them for sure, their arcade legends ones are non-commercial and are cheaper) for $1000 I could toss business their way and so could a lot of the other part time builders.

[Edgedamage]

About the Ultracade HD Image. Just FYI. The one I dissected

[Crazy Cooter]

... rusted away to the point where the only thing left is the marquee rail, but I can still render the game thanks to exception number 3.

LOL.  That's what I've been saying too.  Nobody has shown that the ROM's are illegal.  If they are, how much of the original do you need in order to play your "backup"?  The courts have never dealt with it.

Anyhow...
With all this interest in JoshuaOS, make sure you discuss with him the Foley situation.  Ask him to pull his license.

Boycott Ultracade & Arcade Legends & Chicago Gaming & System99 & HyperWare & Nextune!  This list is getting long.  Why does Foley have to keep changing his business names?  Taxes?  There's something with this...

[SirPoonga]

About the Ultracade HD Image. Just FYI. The one I dissected

[btoddkelley]

GG I would really like to hear about your experience using Joshua, I would love to dump M$ on the cab, especially if I could still transfer files over my wireless network.

Thanks
Todd

[IntruderAlert]

Suppose the following:

1) - Ultracade is actually based on M.A.M.E. and includes M.A.M.E. code
2) - In order to hide this fact, David R. Foley builds some serious copy protection into his systems and begins selling his arcade machines.
3) - Ultracade begins to grow and actually make a nice profit
4) - David R. Foley becomes even more concerned over the possibility of M.A.M.E. code being discovered in his arcade machines and the resulting possibility of his being sued by the original M.A.M.E. creators for his unauthorized use of M.A.M.E. code.
5) - David R. Foley sees an opportunity for leverage against the M.A.M.E. creators in that the M.A.M.E. name and logo have never been trademarked and quickly files for the M.A.M.E. trademark himself.
6) - David R. Foley agrees to return ownership of the M.A.M.E. name and logo to the original M.A.M.E. creators in exchange for the rights to use M.A.M.E. code in all of his arcade machines and thus avoids the possibility of ever being sued by the M.A.M.E. creators

[RayB]

Suppose the following:
...

Sounds plausible.

By the way, I like your whole board persona there. Name, avatar, motto..   

[GGKoul]

Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.  And that fact that DF is connected with Capcom as his Ultracade emulates Capcom games.  It's highly possible that DF took the exisiting Capcom interface (MAME) and tweaked it to suite his needs.

[Santoro]

Reading through this thread it occurred to me what poetic justice it would be if the man that was trying to steal Mame IP was put out of business by thieves that stole and distributed his software.

One can only Dream.   

[SirPoonga]

5) - David R. Foley sees an opportunity for leverage against the M.A.M.E. creators in that the M.A.M.E. name and logo have never been trademarked and quickly files for the M.A.M.E. trademark himself.
6) - David R. Foley agrees to return ownership of the M.A.M.E. name and logo to the original M.A.M.E. creators in exchange for the rights to use M.A.M.E. code in all of his arcade machines and thus avoids the possibility of ever being sued by the M.A.M.E. creators

Ok, so we are at point 5.  5 has to fail so 6 doesn't take place

[SirPoonga]

Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.

[GGKoul]

Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

This place/guy sounds like a reasonable fellow...
Lets see what we can do about pulling the plug..

Or why don't we just see what it'd cost to get our own license of JoshuaOS? Don't know what his minimum volume requirement would be, but maybe purchasing the license would help reverse engineer Ultracade?

We could pool the money through donations. I'd throw some money toward this, for sure. Or maybe this isn't even a sensible suggestion?!?    I'm not really a development guy...


From the site:
JoshuaOS