Is selling fully built arcade machines profitable?

[Dragonman73]

Just curious, I had a guy I used to work with approach me and said he knew I dabbled in arcades a little and if I had any for sale he would buy one for his man-cave he just built.

I could def build one but I didn't know if it was something I could make a profit off of. I already have a pacman 25th marquee, and control panel art. Since I am a tech by trade and we scrap a lot of lcd monitors when we upgrade I have access to a few  4:3 19" LCD's.

I planned on building a newer cabaret style pacman 25th anniversary replica using 3/4" birch, and maybe painting it or throwing some black formica on it. And put a 60-1 card in it with a vertical 19" lcd. It's basically similar to the size and shape of a reg pacman, only shorter in height and a little narrower.

Problem is after doing a quick add of the numbers, not including any artwork, paint or formica I am already at $336 in materials and parts to build this. I figure when it's said and done I would be at around $500 in my costs not including any labor.

I guess if I could get $800 for it then that would be worth my while to build.......not sure what the market looks like now and if it's even worth it.

[Ian]

Eh... I would say no. Granted I never tried to sell one of mine. The market by me is flooded with mame machines and they all want a couple grand for them.

[Dragonman73]

That's what I am kind of thinking, I see a lot of sellers on craigslist taking gutted cabinets and throwing a pandora box in it and wanting upwards of $1000 for them. Not really paying attention to details and such.

I picked up a pacman cabaret and an empty street fighter cabinet on memorial day weekend. I'm building the pacman for myself and on the fence about the street fighter cabinet. I just grabbed it because I had room in my truck and he only wanted $50. It still had the control panel, coin door, power supply, monitor glass and bezel trim intact.

The pacman cabaret was water damaged at the bottom so I decided to build a new cabinet for the parts on it using 3/4" birch. I cut enough materials to build two actually and the other is going to become a galaga mini. These are going to be my personal cabinets.

[smass]

I'd say its certainly not easy money.  The main thing that would dissuade me is the potential support problems when things go wrong.   Support problems is one reason that many builders use 60 in 1 cards and the like.  A full sized cab running a computer or even a raspberry pi is a potential nightmare when customers inevitably screw up the software.

Selling cabinet kits and parts seems to be the best way to make this hobby into a business.  Selling fully built and functional machines is not something I would ever entertain as a business.  I could see building for good friends, but not for a profit.

[ger]

I think when you charge your work for lets say 5 dollar an hour, you will not loose and not make money with your calculation. My
Builds are all more then 60 hours, No I am not slow just want do get the best results;-)

Thats why I think Its a hobby, and i love it.

Greets
Ger

[Dragonman73]

I'd say its certainly not easy money.  The main thing that would dissuade me is the potential support problems when things go wrong.   Support problems is one reason that many builders use 60 in 1 cards and the like.  A full sized cab running a computer or even a raspberry pi is a potential nightmare when customers inevitably screw up the software.

Selling cabinet kits and parts seems to be the best way to make this hobby into a business.  Selling fully built and functional machines is not something I would ever entertain as a business.  I could see building for good friends, but not for a profit.

Oh yeah I would never sell an arcade running a computer or a pi...it would be different if it was my personal set-up. I can see that going south real quick with trying to maintain it.

[Dragonman73]

I think when you charge your work for lets say 5 dollar an hour, you will not loose and not make money with your calculation. My
Builds are all more then 60 hours, No I am not slow just want do get the best results;-)

Thats why I think Its a hobby, and i love it.

Greets
Ger

Oh yeah I def enjoy doing it...but I want to make sure I am being compensated for my work ..I hate to spend most of my time working on something for others to break even.

[ChadTower]

So long as people can look on Craigslist and see a working dedicated game for $400 they will think it's appropriate to pay the same for a custom MAME machine.  You won't be able to sell many of them unless you can do something unique and streamline the process like Haruman does.

[harveybirdman]

I see nothing wrong with restoring and flipping but that's not what happens on Craigslist.

You get jackholes camping on deals then canabalizing what they can and selling the rest for too much $ or ramming 60 n 1's and LED ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- controls into crap with some multicade vomit art and saying that will be $3000 fam.

[ChadTower]

They aren't selling them.  Nobody is paying $3k for a 60-1 conversion.  I've seen them go as high as maybe $750 if it's a nice looking one but that's about it.

[JDFan]

Just curious, I had a guy I used to work with approach me and said he knew I dabbled in arcades a little and if I had any for sale he would buy one for his man-cave he just built.

People will always say that but when it comes down to actually doing it they always expect it to be done and fully supported for life for $200 - $400 !! And then they are messing with it every month or so and breaking it and calling you to come fix it for nothing. (IF you decide to try it make sure they know upfront what the cost is and what support cost runs (ie. $50/hour + parts or whatever you want to charge ) - and don't lowball yourself thinking you can do it for $500 as that includes nothing for your time and any unforseen mistakes ( ie. how many coats of paint does it take and what happens if one of the joysticks doesn't work when it gets there - will they wait for a replacement or will you have to buy another one right away to get it done on time and !)  YOu'll find most people think it can be done in a matter of days and that hardly any of them want to include any labor cost. 

[ChadTower]

I've had a couple of people ask me to do it for them and they'd act like I was trying to rip them off if I said anything over $500.  When I said something like "you asked for custom artwork.  You do realize that even standard artwork costs the builder a couple hundred bucks just to purchase, right?  So custom artwork costs a lot more than that?  And that's only the artwork.  We're not even talking wood, monitor, computer, or control devices yet."  And they still always go with "well I see them on CL with 60 games for $500 all day".  So... go buy that one?  "Well, no, I want a custom machine."

[Mike A]

The last thing I would want to do is turn my hobby into a job.

[ChadTower]

That's exactly why I didn't do it.  There is a bit of opportunity once you become decent at repairing things.  Especially for pinball.  It's just not worth destroying the enjoyment of the hobby.  I've seen many guys go down that road in various hobbies and the disillusionment rate is high.

[Dragonman73]

Just curious, I had a guy I used to work with approach me and said he knew I dabbled in arcades a little and if I had any for sale he would buy one for his man-cave he just built.

People will always say that but when it comes down to actually doing it they always expect it to be done and fully supported for life for $200 - $400 !! And then they are messing with it every month or so and breaking it and calling you to come fix it for nothing. (IF you decide to try it make sure they know upfront what the cost is and what support cost runs (ie. $50/hour + parts or whatever you want to charge ) - and don't lowball yourself thinking you can do it for $500 as that includes nothing for your time and any unforseen mistakes ( ie. how many coats of paint does it take and what happens if one of the joysticks doesn't work when it gets there - will they wait for a replacement or will you have to buy another one right away to get it done on time and !)  YOu'll find most people think it can be done in a matter of days and that hardly any of them want to include any labor cost. 

  Yeah that's kind of where I am at, he said he was "interested" in one for his home...but we never discussed price. I feel like if I tell him I had one for $800-850 he would have a coronary or something

[dkersten]

The last thing I would want to do is turn my hobby into a job.

This

The first ~9 years of my post college adult life I earned a living off what started as a hobby (car stereo installation).  It was good money at the time and the point in my life, and I really enjoyed what I did.  Then one day I woke up and didn't want to go to work any more.  It was no longer fun.  Since then, I have done maybe 5 installs, 3 of which were big custom jobs.  That was over the last 20 years.  I have no desire to do it ever again.  I even take my stuff to a guy I trained 25 years ago and pay him to do it.  And I don't like to pay anyone to do something I can do.  I despise the work that much.  That's what turning a hobby into a business does for you.

I built 2 arcade machines for profit (well, I built them for fun but profited).  In both cases it took being in the $2-3k range to make the time invested worth anything, and even then I made less than $10 per hour once all factors were considered.  And any kind of service requires being on site.  Thankfully in both cases, once the glamour of having a cool arcade machine with tons of games on it wore off, they never used it, so service was a non-issue.  The market is pretty rich for this.  The guy who bought my house wants to buy my mame cabinet or have me build him a new one.  I turned down about 5 jobs that each would have put $1,000 or more in my pocket (for 60-100 hours of work each) because after building 3 machines back to back, I was burned out on it. 

Bottom line, yes, you can make money, even at the $3k+ range.  Is it a long term profit center?  No.  Long term at best it is going to eat you up in service calls.  And while there are a ton of people who grew up in arcades now in their 40's and 50's with empty nests and lots of spare cash, in another decade they will mostly be too old to care any more, and if the cab doesn't come with a couch and a controller, it won't sell.  So if you want to make a few for profit, do it, just don't think it is a long term business plan.

[pbj]

There was a guy in Houston dealing pinball machines and home theaters.  His gimmick was $100/mo 'service contracts' where he'd come out once a month and wipe a rag down the playfield.  That would certainly cut down on the service calls and probably gave him lots of steady, easy income.


 

[ChadTower]

Ah, the 'home heating maintenance contract' model.  HVAC companies here do exactly that.  For like $75/month they will guarantee your water heater and boiler/furnace/whatever stays working perfectly.  Nevermind that they're designed to work more or less troublefree for years at a time if you spend 45 minutes a season cleaning them out.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah and the thing is water heaters aren't that expensive to begin with.  Hell as long as it isn't a super big one I don't even understand why you would pay someone to install one.... go to Lowes, throw it in the truck, unscrew the old one, screw the new one in.  Of course you almost always have to fiddle with pipes/mounting because the new tank is inevitably a slightly different size than the old one, but it isn't that much work really.  I've done several over the years and while I usually need a hand as they are heavy/awkward, it doesn't take more than a couple of hours. 

Plumbers must be for muggles or something as I just don't get it. 

[pbj]

I'll pay you $50 to haul the old hot water heater out of my attic.  It's laying across the ceiling beams in my guest room.


 

[Howard_Casto]

Well if your water heater is in the attic it's just poor house design.  Then again it is Texas.... so my condolences. 

[Titchgamer]

It was pretty common to install hot water storage tanks in the attic over here but not the actual boilers lol
these days everyone uses combis much better

As for the op though I dont think anyone has ever made a profit on these things selling to mates.

It just takes to much time and effort not to mention buying quality parts.

I love it as a hobby but I know I will never get the £0000's ive spent back!

[ark_ader]

Well it all depends on time and resource.  Personally, mame cabinets are a luxury item and should be treated as such.  Also grandiose designs are all well and good, if you are using the thing on a regular basis.  Odds are you will not, so it would be better to create a market for a niche product.  I tinkered in this idea for a while and like the above comments, there is a small margin (if at all) to make profit.

Unless you have a shop or have access to an unemployed cabinet maker, then production runs will be expensive.  If I was stupid enough to try this venture out, I would make tiny or small cabinets.  Unfinished or finished, with monitor, PC with linux. I would not make anything too fancy.  Just big enough to put in the closet.

The buyer to supply the games or you could do it as a freebie with robby roto on a CD.

I have a source where I could get my hands on some dell 15 inch monitors and SFF units, but it is a dog with fleas.  Better to get the client to supply his or her own gear, that way you do not have to "support the electronic stuff you sell" and shipping is cheaper.  I always point my clients to ggg for the hardware.  Randy is awesome for customer service. 

Anyway, I would price the unit out at $60 + shipping for an 'Ikea-esque' flat pack.  All the client would need is a screwdriver.  Profit would be about 60-75% minus costs per 100 units.  I would start selling them in October.

Time to get your thinking hat on.

[ChadTower]

Yeah and the thing is water heaters aren't that expensive to begin with.  Hell as long as it isn't a super big one I don't even understand why you would pay someone to install one.... go to Lowes, throw it in the truck, unscrew the old one, screw the new one in.  Of course you almost always have to fiddle with pipes/mounting because the new tank is inevitably a slightly different size than the old one, but it isn't that much work really.  I've done several over the years and while I usually need a hand as they are heavy/awkward, it doesn't take more than a couple of hours. 

Plumbers must be for muggles or something as I just don't get it.

Bit more complicated than that as ours run on oil here.  New England winters don't work with electric heating of any sort unless you want a $1000 monthly bill over the winter.

[yotsuya]

The only way I think it would be worth it is if you build it first and then sell it as is, like the flippers do. Any sort of custom or commission work usually results in headaches.

[menace]

I like building so the only way i can do that is by selling the past creations.  I dont make alot of money but i make enough to fund the next one with some extra cash on the side.  So not a business but a hobby that makes money..which is a rare thing!

[danny_galaga]

Just build it for him because you like building it, and sell it for a reasonable price. And keep your day job. Don't worry about profit. Just break even and share the love (",)

[markc74]

I love building cabs but only for the challenge and the playtime after. If i was building identical cabs for money with all the end user selling/refunds/customer support shenanigans it would fast become a chore.

[Dragonman73]

I love building cabs but only for the challenge and the playtime after. If i was building identical cabs for money with all the end user selling/refunds/customer support shenanigans it would fast become a chore.

That's kind of my thing too, I enjoy building them and watching them come to life...but for my enjoyment

[dkersten]

I have always capitalized on my hobbies and while I have never fully paid for them with sales, I always supplement them in some way.  Problem is always coming back to labor, and the fact that I can make more money doing other things.  It's all relative though.  When I was less financially secure, I made a lot of side money from my hobbies which paid bills or bought new tools or even paid for the next project.  Today I wouldn't spend 100 hours in the shop to earn a thousand dollars on the side. It simply isn't worth the trouble any more.

It is amazing how many people out there will pay several thousand dollars for something and after a few months never use it again.  Hot Tubs, Pool Tables, Arcades, Jet Skis... Most consumers will buy these high dollar items, use them for a few months or a year, and then never touch it again.  But any business that sells these sorts of things stays in business because they work the business end of it, not because the owner likes getting in the shop and building them.  The guy who actually makes the luxury items usually gets paid the least.

I've always wondered at how heating oil is still a thing.  It seems so archaic, something out of the 1800's.  Natural gas is the heating choice up here in the NorthWest.  No way you can heat anything on electricity for cheap, so NG is the only good option.  But I guess if you have entire cities that were never piped for NG, then a tank of oil in the basement is the way to go...

Finally, it is one thing to be the kind of person who can look at a water heater and see simplicity and have the tools to re-pipe to make the new one fit.  Most people are simply not capable of that, and hence need someone to do it for them.  The older I get, the more inclined I am to hire that stuff out too, regardless of how simple it is in my mind.  I can change my own oil too, but I haven't done it in 20 years.  Hell, I even bought an extended warranty on a couch recently.  All relative...

[yotsuya]

I've actually made a decent amount of cash this year using the skills I've picked up to do arcade repair and PCB assembly.

[pbj]

That is promptly spent on iceberg lettuce sandwiches and rainy days at the beach...

[yotsuya]

That is promptly spent on iceberg lettuce sandwiches and rainy days at the beach...

[eds1275]

I built a few to sell, and ended up working so hard on them because I care too much that it wasn't worth it it in the end.

[Richie_jones]

I think if you build something unique with carefull attention to detail you could sell them for a premium, but using windows as a platform is asking for trouble. Just a small tweek can render hyperspin inoperable.
So your left with a 60 in 1 which kind of takes the amazement away when you show someone 30000+ games...

[thomas_surles]

I just couldn't do it. I built ball buster for less than. $500 and got a $1500 offer on it from my father in laws friend. I turned it down. Though I could have took the 1500 kept the 500 and then have a $1000 budget to make a better one, but i put a lot of time in mine and couldn't part with it.

[yotsuya]

Hey Scott, why don't you be a good mod and spin the natural gas talk off into t's own thread. The old original post was a good topic, it be nice to keep it that way.

[PL1]

[Insert obligatory gas joke here.]   

Done.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154490.0.html


Scott

[yotsuya]

[Insert obligatory gas joke here.]   

Done.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154490.0.html


Scott

Thank you, my friend.

Back on topic, I have a few throw-away cabs I'm considering selling. What I need to do is see what the buyers support expectations are as well as the level of authenticity they want. Fortunately, the buyers are all fam or friends. F total strangers.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not sure if selling to friends is a plus man.  You'll have to constantly deal with them if they have any problems.  With strangers you can just throw an "as is" at them and be done with it. 

Personally I just can't do it.  I built a pacman as a test a few years ago and ended up liking it so much that I kept it.  Also I think I had too much in it to sell for a reasonable price.... 300 bucks in wood, 40 in paint, 40 in cp and interface, a 75 dollar monitor that I'll NEVER be able to pickup at that price again, ect....  And that's not including artwork.  So I would have 600 in it and it wouldn't make sense to sell for less than 1200....  that's beyond the price to where a person can just buy their favorite arcade game outright.