Force Awakens Trailer 3

[yotsuya]

So...full disclosure. The thing I like least from the new trailers is lightsabers with lightsaber cross guards. (That is just trying too hard to be cool, and failing)

It's not cool. Suspension of disbelief...blown.

So the most unbelievable thing to you in the Star Wars universe is a lightsaber with cross guards?  Tauntaun's, AT-AT's and force powers sure, but man those cross guards take me right out of it, totally unbelievable. C'mon, seriously.

Yeah, I don't get the hate for that. Count Dooku's lightsaber didn't look like anyone elses. Darth Maul's was different than when we have traditionally seen. I don't think there's a standard style of lightsaber, is there? I hope somebody whips out lightsaber ninja stars. That would blow people's minds.

[harveybirdman]

It's definitely a ticky tack criticism and falls in among natural suspension of disbelief.  I mean lets face it, if the Jedi's have such force powers as are often displayed they probably should use them more often in battle.  You know, maybe turn off the other guy's light sabre for example or I don't know float some debris in the air so you know you can get to the high ground without getting your legs cut off....

The bigger sin would be if the character doesn't have any depth.  I mean Darth Maul was a bad ass concept for a Sith, and yet they didn't flesh out his character at all.  Kylo Ren better be more than a smoke monster McGuffin.

[dkersten]

I get the impression that a lot of people who are turned off by the new movie and by the prequels are turned off by things that don't fit the "hipster" mentality (for lack of a better term).  Not liking the movie because of too much CGI is like saying your cabinet sucks because it uses MAME and has an LCD.  Not liking it because of a lightsaber you think is too cliché... same thing. It isn't cool anymore because it isn't just you and a couple kids from the original neighborhood that know about it now.  Heck, I think that is what bugs more people than anything else - back in the day Star Wars was something that just our generation "got".. Anything star wars was rare and to be a part was to be in some kind of exclusive club.  Got the latest action figure?  You're in the club.  Wait, you got the Millenium Falcon??  Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, you are definitely in.  Now you can't spit without hitting some kind of franchised item, and that pisses some people off.  And the new movies just turned the kids of this generation into star wars lovers, but they don't GET IT.. they don't GET that Jar Jar isn't cool.  They don't GET that the double ended lightsaber isn't cool, and that the cross bladed one is even less so.  It isn't fair that a new generation loves what we loved but for the wrong reasons.....

Look, the lightsaber thing - the original "authorized" storyline (aka expanded universe) it was explained that one step of becoming a jedi is to make your own lightsaber.  Hence how each has their own.  So one with parts sticking out all over is perfectly fine with me.  I don't care if people think it is unoriginal, cheesy, or just not up to their standards.  It fits the story, and that is more than could be said about pretty much 100% of ep 1-3. 

The reason a black stormtrooper should offend a fan is because the Empire was well known for being basically racist.  There would never be a black stormtrooper, just like there would never be a wookie stormtrooper.  The Empire hunted Wookies because they saw them and all aliens like Hitler saw the Jews.  However, if you are throwing out everything that didn't happen in ep 4-6 as not a part of the story, you can just go with anything you want.  Black stormtrooper?  Sure, why not? That's how I look at it now - ep 1-3 threw out everything from the known Star Wars universe.  So for me, whatever they come up with will be judged only on the movie vs ep 4-6.  Screw 1-3 and screw anything Lucas did since coming up with the idea to make a movie.. ep 4-6's success had more to do with everyone else than him anyway, and all he contributed was ideas and marketing.  Lucas is the Steve Jobs of films - a couple ideas in the 70's and really good at marketing but otherwise just recycling bits and pieces of what everyone else has already done better.

[pbj]

your hot take is 3edgy5me!

[shponglefan]

So...full disclosure. The thing I like least from the new trailers is lightsabers with lightsaber cross guards. (That is just trying too hard to be cool, and failing)

It's not cool. Suspension of disbelief...blown.

So the most unbelievable thing to you in the Star Wars universe is a lightsaber with cross guards?  Tauntaun's, AT-AT's and force powers sure, but man those cross guards take me right out of it, totally unbelievable. C'mon, seriously.

Yeah, I don't get the hate for that. Count Dooku's lightsaber didn't look like anyone elses. Darth Maul's was different than when we have traditionally seen. I don't think there's a standard style of lightsaber, is there? I hope somebody whips out lightsaber ninja stars. That would blow people's minds.

I don't hate it for the fact that it's unbelievable.  I dislike it because it's too much of a gimmick. 

Lightsabers were cool in the original trilogy because the lightsaber duels had meaning.  Even the lightsabers themselves tied into the story and characters.

Episode 1-3 threw all that out in favor of gimmicky crap.  Darth Maul didn't have a double-bladed lightsaber because there was some significant meaning behind it.  He had a double bladed lightsaber because it allowed for a highly choreographed, martial arts style fight scene.  This type of gimmicky crap is what ruins those films, and it looks like they may continue this with Episode 7...

[harveybirdman]

1-3 suck donkey ballz, and it's not just because I'm older or a hipster.

The biggest problem with them is what you already stated, the dialouge is rubbish, the characters are rubbish, the story doesn't make any sense in the known context.  And people just let Lucas make a crap film because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I will accept that Hollywood makes films for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ over art, but Star Wars was transcendent now it's damaged goods.  I refuse to get my hopes up too high that I forget Disney bought these rights for one reason alone, and it wasn't to make art.

[knave]

So the most unbelievable thing to you in the Star Wars universe is a lightsaber with cross guards?  Tauntaun's, AT-AT's and force powers sure, but man those cross guards take me right out of it, totally unbelievable. C'mon, seriously.

Touché' 

I think I don't like it because my broken modern understanding of sword combat has no basis in reality. So in my head the user of that crossguard light saber would slice himself up. Possibly disproven by the link I posted. In the end I will get over it but it does lack the grace suggested o'l ben.
I can see the ridiculous nature of the critisism. That is why I'm going to enjoy the new movie.

I didn't mind the double bladed lightsaber that much??? nor do I mind the notion of a black Storm trooper. The Empire is racist...Racist vs Non-Humans. In an universe where there are real non human sentient races the word racism takes on a different context.

We are all a fickle bunch...but most of us will blow $20 to go see the new movie. (if only to get more things to complain about)

Edit: and I may have been exaggerating its importance a bit. 

[harveybirdman]

I finally broke down and reviewed the most likely of the plot leaks....

It's a lot of MEH.....  I'm thinking now that it will probably be a decent & entertaining movie, but it remains to seen if it will capture the essence of the original.

A lot of it depends on how the introduce the most hokey of all the plot elements and how they explain the motivation of the characters seeking it out.  However GOTG failed miserably with a similar plot issue, and it was still a pretty good movie.

If you haven't seen it yet and want to spoil it for yourself here's the link http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ it's not coincidence that Rey and Ren are so closely spelled

[Ian]

Holy Sh#T, They got Carrie Fisher to look like Princess Leia again!

This 

[Ian]

So the most unbelievable thing to you in the Star Wars universe is a lightsaber with cross guards?  Tauntaun's, AT-AT's and force powers sure, but man those cross guards take me right out of it, totally unbelievable. C'mon, seriously.

Touché' 

I think I don't like it because my broken modern understanding of sword combat has no basis in reality. So in my head the user of that crossguard light saber would slice himself up. Possibly disproven by the link I posted. In the end I will get over it but it does lack the grace suggested o'l ben.
I can see the ridiculous nature of the critisism. That is why I'm going to enjoy the new movie.

I didn't mind the double bladed lightsaber that much??? nor do I mind the notion of a black Storm trooper. The Empire is racist...Racist vs Non-Humans. In an universe where there are real non human sentient races the word racism takes on a different context.

We are all a fickle bunch...but most of us will blow $20 to go see the new movie. (if only to get more things to complain about)

Edit: and I may have been exaggerating its importance a bit. 

I'll say this about the cross saber... it's growing on me. He looked mean swinging that thing in the trailer. I still think the chance of him losing his hands at the wrist is hella high. But more power to him keeping that in check.

[yotsuya]

I swear, you lightsaber purists. This Sith Lord obviously spent his own money and has his own design for his lightsaber. Who are you to question his design choices. Narcissist!

[PL1]

Well, at least the two cross guards are "properly oriented" square to the main blade.   

Imagine how bad the lightsaber purists would freak out if there were two more cross guards -- and they were angled.      


Scott

[Xiaou2]

The problem with the Crossgaurd:

 1)  Size.   At nearly 1ft end to end..  its most likely it will cut the user whos swinging it.

 2)  The Un-Shielded Junction.   This is the biggest problem actually.   As swords clash... the persons sword will slide all the way down the sword to the cross-junction.   However,  since the light-bars are a nearly 2" away from the junction... it leaves them to be easily severed off.  (The arm of the Op along with it)

 If they had a weapons expert in there... they probably would have easily spotted this Face-Palm error.

 Neither the Japanese nor Chinese swords have cross members.  The disc shaped hand guards are small, yet effectively enough to keep the hand safe from blade-slide.    Adding durable extended T-shaped cross members does not really gain you much protection,  especially considering that attacks can come from any angle.  It merely adds unwanted weight... making wielding slower and more tiresome.

 I personally have no issue with modifications and unique weapons... so long as they operate with some sense of believable realism.

 All they really had to do to make it more realistic... is to make the beams come out exactly at the edges of the grip.


---

 Puppets  - vs - CGI

 CGI can be done quite convincingly when the right people are given the task, and when allowed the maximum rays to be traced + rendering time ($$$).   

 However,  Lucus's ILM team was just not up to par,  and it would seem that they skimped on rays, and render times.    Whats even worse... is that these 3d animators were horrible at simulating realistic motions... such as walking, fighting..etc.    So you get characters like Jar Jar... and Yoda... that seem to move like there is no such thing as Gravity, acceleration, momentum..etc.    No matter how real you make something look... when it does not move realistically... it totally ruins the effect,  and caused most people to shun it instantly.

 Also, Lucus's CGI was made without any form of realism.   Buildings and ships looked like they were just polished by Mr. Clean.  It was bad enough that there wasnt enough depth due to the lack of shading rays... but they to make everything sparkle like brand new... was way over the top.    The real world is gritty and dirty.   The tech and look should have been even more so than the originals.

 Puppets actually looked far more interesting (artistic),  and moved more realistically than many CGI characters.   Even the puppets that looked or moved kinda oddly.. were acceptable, because they were not hyper-realistic in appearance.   Each character was a work of art.. and added a real fantasy element to the movie.    It also added a lot of comedic relief..   otherwise, Starwars would have been more of a serious drama.   It would have lost a lot of its playfulness, heart, and soul.


 Ewoks -  Love / Hate

 It seems that Older generation people didnt like the idea of the Puppets,  most especially the Ewoks.   Its sort of funny, because R2D2 is about as unrealistic as can be... but he was easily accepted... where as Ewoks were not.  Similarly, there are many other puppet characters as well... and again, were accepted.   I would guess that was because they were not the main focus... as the Ewoks were.

 Of course, its more than merely age, that forms certain polar opinions.    There are a lot of Sci-Fi fans that are less about emotions, feelings, drama, and character ... and really just want to see high tech stuff.  Space flight, dog fights, explosions, and pure action.   They often want hyper realism... because to them, fantasy is seen as sort of childish and is not desired.

 These people often feel that Empire is the best of the Starwars films,  as a result of that vastly different perspective.


 I personally love the Ewoks.    But I also love movies like Labyrinth as well.   Im a fan of hand made things, and well done puppetry.
Which sadly, is probably not going to be in the new and future starwars episodes.    As a result, I feel the series will lose a lot of its character and depth.   It will probably become more of a generic and boring series.


 Hand Built Ships  - vs - CGI

 I think a lot of people do not realize the complexity of many of these great ship designs.   They Never would have happened, had some boring CGI artist tried to build them from scratch as originals.   The originals came to be so good.. because there were made by master model makers.   This kind of artists does not usually go into the CGI field.. because the CGI field is far more sterile and quirky.   The software and proceedures are far more painful to deal with... than merely to build these things from scratch with real physical materials.

 Even beyond this... is the fact that most CGI raytraving is done very poorly.. and so the ships look very flat and unrealistic, compared to photographed models.    Add to this a bad animator plotting the flight patterns.. and you have a sterile and unbelievable action scene... that looks fake,  and ruins the emotional value of the scene, due to the suspension of disbelief being far more impactful.


 Prequels - vs - Originals

 Most of what was said above applies to the Prequels.   Horribly unrealistic, flat, super-clean, poorly animated CGI.  A touch of JARmacan Racism.   And adding to that...  you have awful monotone acting.   None of the characters stood out as likable, nor interesting.

 Look at the reactions in the new Trailer.   As soon as people see Han, or Chewie... they go berzerk with emotions.   That is because these characters gave such great performances.   They are memorable and charismatic.  You actually Care what happens with and to them.   That simply cant be said for anything in the Prequels.   Its devoid of any real emotional impact.

 A great actor can almost turn a lump of coal,  into a Diamond.

 When Lucus got full control over SW...  he committed some of the worst crimes to it.   He went against everything that made SW so memorable and impacting.   No more puppets,  no more physically built models,  and poor quality of comedic relief.  Use of no-name actors whom may have looked right... but couldnt act for beans.


 New Trailer Opinion

 I dont want to say to much about it.    Im glad many of the original actors are in it.   Im also a fan of some of JJ's works...  so it has some potential to at least be "Good".   (Unlike Prequels)    Some scenes seemed more decorated in realism, rather than mere CGI.. which was nice.

 I dont think it will surpass something like ROTJ,  from the trailers current looks.

 It seems more of a Star Trek style of adventure... based more on realism, than the more fantasy / artsy originals.

 I do like the aspect of seeing a Star Wars film is Stereoscopic 3d.


----

 Personally, I want to see an IMAX 3d conversion of ROTJ  (the Original Theatrical release).
Id pay $30 for a ticket to see that, easily.

[harveybirdman]

I know I'm getting too excited about Star Wars when I just read every word of that word salad and generally agreed with everything said.

[wp34]

My mom called me today hinting around that she would like me to take her to the 7 movie Star Wars marathon they are having.  I don't think I can do it. It would be really awesome to see EP4 on the big screen again though.

[shponglefan]

No more puppets,  no more physically built models,

Just to nitpick, but there were a lot of practical models and effects in the Star Wars prequels.  The problem was there was also an overabundance of CGI plastered on top of it.

I also wonder if the general slick nature of modern effects tends to render the old-school imperfections of practical effects almost non-existent.  So people these days often mistake practical effects for CGI (the BB-8 droid being a perfect example).

[wp34]

No more puppets,  no more physically built models,

Just to nitpick, but there were a lot of practical models and effects in the Star Wars prequels.  The problem was there was also an overabundance of CGI plastered on top of it.

I also wonder if the general slick nature of modern effects tends to render the old-school imperfections of practical effects almost non-existent.  So people these days often mistake practical effects for CGI (the BB-8 droid being a perfect example).

I think you are right.  CGI is often used to clean or spice up a practical effect. As I recall C3PO in EP1 was a practical effect. The only CGI was to remove the puppeteer.

[Locke141]

I walked out of E1 loving it and so did my two brothers that  I saw it with. Today I'm the only one that admits to liking it. I liked 3 and 4 as well. I guess I just excepted that there were parts of the movies made for me and there were parts that were there for kids. As a teacher I can tell you first hand that there are lots of young children that lover E1-3.

As for the new trailer I'll say this, When Hon Solo said "It's all real" I almost shed a single tear in a wave of nostalgia.     

[ChadTower]

EDIT: wp34 ordered me to post his name on this list.  Done.
1. Hoopz
2. wp34

Space reserved for the other 3 folks in the world that like the movies also.
3. yotsy
4. reserved
5. reserved

I liked them.  No, they weren't as good as the others, but the third one was pretty good.  And they were still better than most of what gets put out.

[harveybirdman]

Broke down and bought advanced tickets for me an my 8 year old.... we'll see, even if it sucks at least it will be a good father/son outing.

[pbj]

Given the collective nerdgasm the world is going to have over this thing... I give it 2 days, tops, before a HD quality bootleg is available.  Might want to use your neighbor's wifi to grab it, though.