Project - Unknown Trail

[SojuMaster]

Hey There Builders,

I have been thinking about building a MAME Cab for a long time and decided to finally dive into the world of MAME cab building.  As with any of my previous projects (not related to cab building) I have an idea where I want to go but usually end up taking a couple turns and end up with something different then initially visualized but it is still very much a success. So hence, the project name of "Unknown Trail".

Here are the bells and whistles that I would like to include in my cabinet design, in order of priority.
3 2 monitor system.  One for Game Play;One to Mirror the Game Play for people watching; and a Ultrawide Monitor for the Marquee.   
--- After some comments, the mirroring monitor might not be doable, especially if I want a rotating monitor.  This idea is the first victim.  
Marquee that does not just show static images.
Rotating Monitor.  Could be problematic for the monitor that is mirroring. (Optional)
Cool LEDs and External Lights.  Additional Option - Pulses to the game sounds.
Swappable Control Panels.
The cabinet can be turned on and off via a remote.

First think I am looking at the Monitor setup.  This is going to be the most expensive port of the project and I want to make sure I have this correct the first time.  I am looking for suggestions for monitor types and sizes. I am leaning towards 27" Dell Monitors and  a 25" Ultrawide (http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-25UM56-P-ultrawide-led-monitor) 

On the PC, what would be the best video card setup?  Should I get a quad monitor video card or a Dual Monitor video card with a single Monitor card?  What front ends would be the best in regards to facilitating this type of setup?

Many thanks in advance!!!
Stephen

[vwalbridge]

This is going to be your first arcade build?   

[Le Chuck]

Stephen, why not the ability to play the games remotely so you don't even have to be in the same room with the contraption, or theatre seating for the people watching your game play, or DDR pads...and a monitor that just runs DDR so people can play while you play?

[yotsuya]

Stephen, why not the ability to play the games remotely so you don't even have to be in the same room with the contraption, or theatre seating for the people watching your game play, or DDR pads...and a monitor that just runs DDR so people can play while you play?

[vwalbridge]

Wait just a minute here....


Did Neph open a new account to troll us with this build?

[yotsuya]

Wait just a minute here....


Did Neph open a new account to troll us with this build?

Naw, Neph ain't got no time for that.

[pcguysam]

As a n00b here myself, I hate to discourage anyone, especially someone with such visions of grandeur.  What you're proposing crosses the line between awesomeness and preposterous, and probably infringes on obscene.  So I'll offer some advice as best I can.

Ditch the monitor as a marquee idea.  If you really want a marquee that changes, do something with a multi color LED sign.  That'll get their attention from across the living room.

The monitor for people watching?  Those did really exist back in the day, but I don't think I'd go that direction.  One of the coolest cabs I've seen here used 2 monitors in a pinball style setup.  One horizontal, one vertical, and the virtual pinball was sweet.  Personally, I love my single 32", but that's me, not you.  It's big enough for anyone who wants to watch to see just fine.

Otherwise, I'd just say save your money and buy yourself a handsomely equipped Kia.

[SojuMaster]

This is going to be your first arcade build?   

Yes .. I know I am being a bit ambitious, but that is the way I am with everything I do   That is why the end is always different then what my inital visualizations.

[SojuMaster]

Wait just a minute here....


Did Neph open a new account to troll us with this build?

Naw, Neph ain't got no time for that.

I have no idea who this Neph is .... so this is not a trolling build ... lol

[SojuMaster]

As a n00b here myself, I hate to discourage anyone, especially someone with such visions of grandeur.  What you're proposing crosses the line between awesomeness and preposterous, and probably infringes on obscene.  So I'll offer some advice as best I can.

Ditch the monitor as a marquee idea.  If you really want a marquee that changes, do something with a multi color LED sign.  That'll get their attention from across the living room.

The monitor for people watching?  Those did really exist back in the day, but I don't think I'd go that direction.  One of the coolest cabs I've seen here used 2 monitors in a pinball style setup.  One horizontal, one vertical, and the virtual pinball was sweet.  Personally, I love my single 32", but that's me, not you.  It's big enough for anyone who wants to watch to see just fine.

Otherwise, I'd just say save your money and buy yourself a handsomely equipped Kia.

I have seen the marquee idea with a ultra-wide monitor in other builds, so hence the inspiration to do it here.  The marquee is not only to draw attention, but to change as different games are being played.

I have also seen cabinets in the past putting a 2nd monitor for people to observe game play, especially on extremely popular games or in competions back in the day at Putt-Putt. (Gawd I feel VERY old now)

I have seen the dual monitor for pinball systems, but I have zero intrest in a virtual pinball game.  I am an old school pinball player and there is no substitute to the real sounds and physics of a pinball game or hearing a pinball get popped into the air and hitting the glass. I know that you are not suggesting to build one, just putting in my 2 cents.

Looking around the house, I do have enough spare parts to test my Main+Mirror+Marquee idea, so it initally wont cost anything. I just like to have some thoughts for the brain trust.

Stephen

[BadMouth]

Here are the bells and whistles that I would like to include in my cabinet design, in order of priority.
3 monitor system.  One for Game Play; One to Mirror the Game Play for people watching; and a Ultrawide Monitor for the Marquee.
Marquee that does not just show static images.
Rotating Monitor.  Could be problematic for the monitor that is mirroring. (Optional)

Yeah, I don't see a way to pull this off without also having the mirroring monitor rotate.
You could make it also rotate, but IMO the added hassle of doing that, the added hassle of trying to get emulators to display the same thing to two monitors while displaying something different to a third, as well as the extra GPU power that will be sucked away, makes it just not worth it.
Do that many people really want to watch other people play?

Cool LEDs and External Lights.  Additional Option - Pulses to the game sounds.

Easy enough to do with the standalone LED strips from amazon or ebay.
Personally I think it's tacky, but have friends that love it.

swappable control panels

I can dig it.

For the monitor, I'm using a 27" 16:9 screen and like it.  It gives you around a 24" 4:3 image.
Just be careful about the viewing angles if you're going to physically rotate it.
Most monitors aren't made to be viewed from the bottom, so they appear darker from that direction.
If you have a poor bottom viewing angle, either P1 or P2's side is going to appear darker than the others.

The majority of vertical games require the monitor to be rotated counter clockwise.
It's not a big deal with MAME since there are options to rotate it whichever way you want, but it helps with other emulators and the taito type x games if you have the monitor rotate that way.

I've got no recommendation for a front end.  I use Mala which has awesome support for rotating monitors, but it's no longer being maintained.
So using it with the latest versions of MAME require a bunch of workarounds.

For the GPU, it depends on what emulators you plan to run.
The more you spend the more games you can play, but it is a case of diminishing returns.
MAME doesn't require much of anything.  Demul requires DX11 and a decent level card (at least 60 series...460,660,860, etc...70 series would be better).
If you have a bleeding edge processor and GPU, you can play PS2 games.

On the processor, go for the highest speed you can afford (at least 3GHZ or GTFO).
4 core is fine, you won't get much of a boost running more cores than that.

The cabinet can be turned on and off via a remote.

Why?  Seems like a pointless feature to me.  One more remote to keep track of.
Now if you had a game room where every device in there booted up with the push of one single button, that would be useful.

[harveybirdman]

I just like to have some thoughts for the brain trust.

Good luck with your build man, I'm bolding this in case you get some feedback that's a little harsh....


Personally I think it sounds ugly and unnecessary.  Here are the questions I'd ask myself.

Will there ever be a crowd of my peeps around this game?
Did the Display monitors back in the day really look good aesthetically in the first place?
What do I REALLY want to play?
Am I prepared to take on the compromise in control and/or aesthetics to play 4 way and 8 way games designed for both horizontal and vertical monitor orientations on one machine?
Where am I going to keep panels when not in use?
How is the swap going to happen? Am I willing to go through this EVERY time I want to play Tempest?


I'm not saying a good build with these kinds of features is impossible (SwitchCade by topjimmycooks comes to mind) but I think you need a well thought out plan of attack.

Start with some sketchup and the community can tell you what's wrong with it, LOL 

[vwalbridge]

First think I am looking at the Monitor setup.  This is going to be the most expensive port of the project and I want to make sure I have this correct the first time.  I am looking for suggestions for monitor types and sizes. I am leaning towards 27" Dell Monitors and  a 25" Ultrawide (http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-25UM56-P-ultrawide-led-monitor) 

For the record, I do not endorse using an LCD for a marquee but I feel obligated to point something out anyway. The LG monitor you are linking to above has an image size roughly 24in x 11in. The width might be correct but the height is very disproportional. Your marquee images will look very stretched.

If you insists on doing it, at least use what markc74 did for his Blip build:

Litemax SSD2313

The litemax has a rough screen dimension of 22.5in x 7.75in. A much more proportional screen for marquees.

[BadMouth]

Keep in mind that if you want to rotate a 27" monitor, the cab is going to need to be much wider than those marquee monitors.
Mine is 32" wide and the monitor is crazy close to touching the sides when it rotates.

[SojuMaster]

First think I am looking at the Monitor setup.  This is going to be the most expensive port of the project and I want to make sure I have this correct the first time.  I am looking for suggestions for monitor types and sizes. I am leaning towards 27" Dell Monitors and  a 25" Ultrawide (http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-25UM56-P-ultrawide-led-monitor) 

For the record, I do not endorse using an LCD for a marquee but I feel obligated to point something out anyway. The LG monitor you are linking to above has an image size roughly 24in x 11in. The width might be correct but the height is very disproportional. Your marquee images will look very stretched.

If you insists on doing it, at least use what markc74 did for his Blip build:

Litemax SSD2313

The litemax has a rough screen dimension of 22.5in x 7.75in. A much more proportional screen for marquees.

Thanks for the link and suggestion.  What markc74 did, is very much what I had visualized.

[SojuMaster]

Keep in mind that if you want to rotate a 27" monitor, the cab is going to need to be much wider than those marquee monitors.
Mine is 32" wide and the monitor is crazy close to touching the sides when it rotates.

Did you use two seperate videos cards? 

[vwalbridge]

Keep in mind that if you want to rotate a 27" monitor, the cab is going to need to be much wider than those marquee monitors.
Mine is 32" wide and the monitor is crazy close to touching the sides when it rotates.

Did you use two seperate videos cards?

Why would he need 2 seperate video cards to rotate a monitor?

[yotsuya]

Good luck with your build!

[BadMouth]

Did you use two seperate videos cards?

No.  I only have one monitor and have the video card set to single monitor performance mode.

[SojuMaster]

Did you use two seperate videos cards?

No.  I only have one monitor and have the video card set to single monitor performance mode.

Ok.  I misunderstood you.  When you mentioned Marquee, I thought you were running a monitor for the marquee. 

[SojuMaster]

Just checking in.

I open the mailbox this morning (was too busy and didn't look in it all weekend).  I received my orders from Pololu and Amazon. (Or I hope that I received everything, was rushing out the door to work and only opened one box)

Pololu Simple Motor Controller 18v7 (Fully Assembled)
Pololu Stamped Aluminum L-Bracket Pair for 37D mm Metal Gear motors
Pololu Universal Aluminum Mounting Hub for 6mm Shaft, #4-40 Holes (2-Pack)
Premium Jumper Wire 50-Piece Rainbow Assortment F-F 6"
4x Micro Limit Switch Long Hinge Roller Lever Arm SPDT Snap Action LOT
2x DC 12V 130mA 10RPM 15Kg-cm High Torque Permanent Magnetic Gear Motor
300 lbs Capacity 4 Lazy Susan Bearing 5/16 Thick Turntable Bearings VXB Brand
4x Micro Limit Switch Long Straight Hinge Lever Arm SPDT Snap Action LOT
Total - $185

BTW,  I AM PISSED!! I just reviewed the Amazon order and I didn't realize the first set of Micro Limit Switches were coming from China ..... 45 freakin dollars for S&H!!!! Seriously WTF.

Now I have to work on how to get my monitor to rotate.

Last week I Bought a refurbished PC and a new 3-monitor video card and 16GB of RAM.  (Specs to follow, I am at work now so I cannot remember everything)
Computer with new RAM and Video - $425

I have a 32" LCD 720P TV that I have laying around, I plan to use this as my primary display.  I need to wait till I get my new monitors today to take another old monitor and use it as a test for the marquee display before I spend monitor and get a real ultra-wide monitor like in Blip's project. 

While waiting for stuff to come in, spend too many hours playing Pac-Man on the keyboard.  Need to test the computer   

[Token]

I have a 32" LCD 720P TV that I have laying around, I plan to use this as my primary display. 

Two things you might want to consider:

• A rotating 32" TV will require roughly 35"-38" of interior width in your cabinet, depending on the TV's bezel. This is a wide cabinet.
  
• Your 32" widescreen gives you a 26" horizontal 4:3 and a 19.5" vertical 4:3 (compare the 32" height to the width of the 19.5"). If I'm not mistaken, many classic vert games ran on 19" tubes.

Unless you are building a showcase cabinet, you will most likely find that 32" TV to be just the right size, without rotating it at all.

Good luck!

[yotsuya]

If I'm not mistaken, many classic vert games ran on 19" tubes

ALL classic vert games ran on 19" tubes. You are correct.

[talkgeek]

Are you planning on making the rotation mech manual or automated? 
- I've seen a couple of projects listed here in the past that went the automatic drive motor path, all seemed quite complex - but seems to fit with the wider requirements direction you seem to be going  - I'm sure those in those in the "Brain's Trust" will be able to point you in the direction of those projects.

If you are considering a more simple process - the following is what I did for a friend who wanted "everything-in-one-cab"  - other than a ridiculously wide cab (needed for the rotation) I can't envision any reason why this wouldn't work for a 32" screen (vs the 19" 4:3 we used)

- btw, he's had the cab nearly 18months now and change the screen rotation twice 

Good luck

[SojuMaster]

Ok ... I finally figured out the configuration with the motor, Simple Motor Controller and the limit switches....   



I do not know to embed the video

Edit:
Thanks vwalbridge for letting me know how to do it. 

[vwalbridge]

I do not know to embed the video

Remove the letter 's' from https in the YouTube link will embed it.

[dkersten]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't you be better off using a large flat screen and use virtual bezels to get the same effect for a lot less headache and a lot less money?  If you are keeping your cab narrower, go with a 42" turned sideways.  If you are going a little wider, go with a  48-50".  Plus it will match your virtual marquee display better.  Plus the whole point of rotating a monitor is to be able to use a smaller screen and still get the max screen size for the game.  A 32" screen is used because on vertical games it is similar to a 19 or 20" display.  Rotate a 20" 4:3 monitor and you just achieved the same effect with a narrower cab.  32" set vertical and running full screen will be too big.. that would be even bigger than the 25th anniversary pac-man/galaga with the 27" crt. 

[SojuMaster]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't you be better off using a large flat screen and use virtual bezels to get the same effect for a lot less headache and a lot less money?  If you are keeping your cab narrower, go with a 42" turned sideways.  If you are going a little wider, go with a  48-50".  Plus it will match your virtual marquee display better.  Plus the whole point of rotating a monitor is to be able to use a smaller screen and still get the max screen size for the game.  A 32" screen is used because on vertical games it is similar to a 19 or 20" display.  Rotate a 20" 4:3 monitor and you just achieved the same effect with a narrower cab.  32" set vertical and running full screen will be too big.. that would be even bigger than the 25th anniversary pac-man/galaga with the 27" crt.

I am not dead set on 32" and I was thinking of going to the local PC shop and pick up the largest 4:3 available but I am going to just go piece-by-piece.  Once I start building the frame, I will test run it a few times and see how it feels. 

When I built my poker table, I wanted to install lights under the rail but had to scrap the idea because the light diffuser kept on cracking.  I am more than willing to change my mind on something and that is why I am here also, to keep a sanity check on my project.