Mistakes You Made

[yotsuya]

I took myself way too seriously.  I was going to have this sleek awesome cab that did everything.  It didn't.  A simple box is simple.  Why so many weird curves?  That isn't generic at all.

I used plans as guidelines.  I wanted to express myself as some sort of fantastic artist with an out of the box idea.  I never finished any of them.  I suffered for my art; it just suffered.

1/32" margin of error on dimensional lumber?  I've got this.   

Amen, brother!!!

[wp34]

All 5 sheets that Menards had were scratched really bad.

My #1 complaint about Menards. It is like they source their wood based on unwanted leftovers from distributors, and if you need something very specific, it is a gamble. That has always been their problem. Back in the 60's when there was only one Menards, and it was only a lumber yard, my Grandfather owned a construction biz in the same town. They would steer clear of Menards when they could because the wood was always damaged and warped.

I still go there above home depot for wood because the "cut your own wood" model can get even more insane. You need 20 six foot boards of a certain wood, and they only stock ten footers, you will need to A) Sit and cut 20 boards by hand in the store, B) Look for scraps, or C) Grossly overpay for for an extra 80 feet of wood.

I tend to go to Menards before HD or Lowes also.  I prefer to drive my truck into the lumber yard versus loading the wood into a cart and then loading it into my truck. 

[BadMouth]

On my first setup, I regret wasting time setting up all the console games...except the fighting games on dreamcast.

On my current cab:

Using white primer for red paint.  It took like 10 coats (not exaggerating) to get even coverage.  Use dark primer for red paint.

Using a monitor with poor viewing angles from the bottom in a rotating setup where it would be vertical sometimes.  (P2's view is darker than P1's)

Switching to hacked xbox360 controllers while not having all 8 buttons or using an xbox360.  I thought it would be Steam game bliss, but created more issues than it solved.
A keyboard encoder using only letter and number keys paired with the x360kb solution stickied in the software forum is still the best solution IMO. 

Not planning out my CP box well.  The top and control layout is great, but the box is so shallow and small that it severely limits my options when it comes to rotating joysticks, spinners, trackballs, etc.  It's not very deep because of the way I did the slider mechanism, which wasn't really planned out.  But that's how I work.  Things just kind of evolve as I build.

Not cab build related, but since I bought the house I was renting I regret selling ABACABB the big beautiful 29" VGA CRT monitor I had.  (If you're reading this and need money, I'll buy it back for whatever you paid me originally.  )
I'd be building a huge frankenbeast of a cab around it that wouldn't fit out the basement door.  OE light guns, 4 players, 3 steering wheels, the works. 

Gonna give plywood a try on the next build.

[SlappyKungFuGrip]

My mistake..The pic says it all.. What was I thinking !!   But I love buttons!

[Typefighter01]

My mistake..The pic says it all.. What was I thinking !!   But I love buttons!

Your spinner locations just made my day, I seriously just laughed out loud at my work desk...thank you

I can't say much, as the button spacing on my first cab was so far apart, only the tips of my fingers would reach even with my fingers fully extended and hand flat. I have to guess almost everyone regrets some portion of their first cab...it is healthy to be able to laugh at ourselves 

[wp34]

My mistake..The pic says it all.. What was I thinking !!   But I love buttons!

That's the right way to make a mistake.  Call it R&D. 

[monkeybomb]

I read slowly and have little patience for instructions, so they are actually difficult for me get through, even when I stick it out.  So I end up jumping into things without proper per-requsite knowledge.  Well... that's a disaster in this hobby and I've made far more mistakes than things I've done correctly.  From the outside, the funniest is probably that I borrowed a router without knowing what would happen and cut a t-molding slot in my apartment.  While the slot was cut correctly and the t-molding looked nice, it turns out that MDF dust goes flying absolutely everywhere when you do this.  Completely sprayed the entire place.  I guess I thought the wood from the slot would just politely fall down as was

If I have an actual regret is that I sold the first thing that I was really happy with.  It was a SFII showcase control panel with a computer mounted inside.  I think I paid $25 for the CP and I don't think I can match that today.  It ended up as a plug and play arcade in a box with optical sticks and a shazam key that allowed me to have access to everything without adding buttonholes to the panel.  It felt real to play it, even on a TV.  The picture on the BST thread is just of the CP from e-bay when I bought it.  I don't have a pic of the computer mounted in the box, but you've seen those.  And I never owned that cow.  Don't put that on me.

Last one.  You could call it a mistake, but I got a kick out of the result and decided not to change it when I had a chance a few months after it happened.  The group was trying to get a thread sent to post hell and I said that Saint was over-rated.  I'll let you figure out the consequence.

[SlappyKungFuGrip]

Another mistake.. Drilling pinball buttons. Always check that they dont crash with the Cp buttons !

[SavannahLion]

C and E clips.

[Howard_Casto]

Something I regret is some of my "purist" philosophies.  The biggest one is the monitor.  If it's a conversion and there is an arcade monitor in there then fine, but I doubt I'll ever go back to clunky old crt's ever again for a new build.  Sometimes you've got to get with the times and although I love the way a 15khz crt looks, it severely limits what you can do and play, not to mention the fact that the bigger ones weigh a ton. 

[eds1275]

Something I regret is some of my "purist" philosophies.  The biggest one is the monitor.

I've always been about playing the games and not about mucking about with ancient hardware. I also understand the costs of real estate, and couldn't imagine having a 3 foot deep arcade machine taking up space.

[yotsuya]

Something I regret is some of my "purist" philosophies.  The biggest one is the monitor.

I've always been about playing the games and not about mucking about with ancient hardware. I also understand the costs of real estate, and couldn't imagine having a 3 foot deep arcade machine taking up space.

Different perspectives are interesting. Over time, I've found more satisfaction from repairing the ancient hardware and couldn't imagine playing games on anything other than a 3 foot deep arcade machine.

[Xiaou2]

Its not about "Getting with the Times"

 Its about the intended output look.

 No LCD, can simulate a Vector CRT monitor look well.  Laser beams are closest thing to a vector monitor brightness.
 LCDs are notorious for distorting and blurring non native resolutions.  (most classics, are low resolution)
 LCDs lifespan is about 5 years max... if your lucky.   A good CRT can last well over 20 years without repairs.
 A cabinet that is light weight (LCD),  is a cabinet that can be rocked around too easily during heavy action gaming.
 LCDs often have problems matching color performance, and Contrast levels, of CRTs.
 LCDs still often have motion blur and viewing angle issues.
 LCDs have their place for newer games.   But for classics... it does not improve things... it degrades them.
 Older Console gaming systems look better on CRTs as well.
 *And... you really dont save much space when you use an LCD anyways.   You still should be using the proper slanted viewing angle,
and your going to have people standing behind it.   What do you really save?  1ft max?

 If your from an era more centeralized on the 90s - 00s,  then you might not value the real CRT experience as much.

 Also, younger generation people tend to stick their noses up at older things... mostly out of pride of what they consider "Their Era".
New does not always mean better.   It often takes a lot of effort, to get these people to see past this.


 One elder EGM magazine article said that it was possible to hook a Sega Genesis up to an RGB monitor.    Turned out that the Amiga 500 Monitor I had, was RGB.   I called up a cable making company, and had them custom build an RGB cable.  I was shocked at how clean and clear the picture was.  However, many games didnt look good as a result.  The games were designed to be seen with the typical composite distortion.  They used the signal and CRT distortion, to devise the artwork look, and flicker effects.    I ended up using the standard composite signal as a result of many games looking painfully awful, on RGB.

 Some of the Filters on Mame help the look... but they still are often far from what the games are really supposed to look like.

 Further making things worse... is that timing of the games are often locked to the monitor refresh.   LCDs dont do odd refresh rates... and
so the games dont even play the same.  Visual and Audio skips... and other problems are going to take place.

 So, it boils down to what games you are playing, and whether you can deal with them looking vastly different than they should.
Not about the Age of the equipment being used.

 Ive got a pair of speakers made in the 70s, that will blow 95% of the modern speakers made today, completely out of the water.   Ive recently compared these against the top model speakers in a high end Stereo Shop... and their flagship $3000 speakers could not even hold a candle to my "Ancient" speakers.

 Its not the age, its the functional results, that matter.

[pbj]

Man, I think everyone in the world read that same EGM article.  Had me wondering for years what an RGB monitor was.

[eds1275]

Some people can enjoy games for what they are instead of crying that the LCD screen doesn't bleed colour between the pixels or whatever. In a heated game of street fighter, I actually don't end up doing street fighter moves to the cabinet because even though it has an LCD in it it still weighs a bunch. I guess if I gained another 150 pounds and put my weight into it I suppose...

[Malenko]

X2's post is hidden, because I'm ignoring him, but I assume you're responding to him. As soon as he can get some citation from any reputable source for any of his outlandish claims I'll bother with replying. I just know he said that LCDs only last a few years, I can feel it, and he's a broken record.

[Token]

Regarding CRT vs. LCD--

We all come at this hobby with different interests and perspectives. Some are audio/techno-philes who simply cannot enjoy playing a classic game on an LCD, and will spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to recreate the past. Others are just hoping to enjoy old games from their youth and they don't care or even notice if the image is not even close to the original. I imagine most of fit somewhere in between, and have to balance the costs in time and money with a desire to make these games close to original.

[Howard_Casto]

X2's post is hidden, because I'm ignoring him, but I assume you're responding to him. As soon as he can get some citation from any reputable source for any of his outlandish claims I'll bother with replying. I just know he said that LCDs only last a few years, I can feel it, and he's a broken record.

Yeah pretty close.  Same old schtick. He also dismisses hlsl/glsl options for the most part and that's the thing....  They aren't perfect by any means but a person has to outweigh the pros and cons of different display options and lcds win in most cases.  On an arcade pcb, no they don't, but on a mame cab where if you run games natively you'll  have to deal with oddball resolutions like medium res and vector games and vertical games a 15khz crt stops being practical.  Then your next crt option is a multi-sync that handles medium res (costly) or a vga/svga crt, which really gives you the same output as the lcd, only it's heavy and at this point costly if you get the arcade ready variety. 

I can't fault people for wanting arcade monitors though... depending upon the setup and the needs of the user it might be a better option and in many cases it does result in a more accurate picture. 

That wasn't my point in my original comment though and as usual X2 can't see the forest for the trees.  My point was I used to be under the mindset that for certain things in this hobby there is only one proper way to do things.  A person needs to be more flexible though.  I ended up preferring lcds because I stopped being so stubborn and tried something new.  We should all learn to give new ideas and technology a try once in a while

I have a hard time being a purist anymore because since around 2005, games in the arcades are really pc games.... they look best on lcd monitors and your more "arcadey" titles are now released on the pc and aside from rare "throw back" exceptions like shovel knight and fix it felix, the games are now high res.  I love the classics sure, but if I have a refrigerator sized appliance in my house I want to get more use out of it than the 20 or 30 games I liked as a kid. 

[Xiaou2]

Thats Not what you posted.   You said  "Sometimes you just got to get with the times"
As well as "Old clunky CRTs"

 It easily implies age over functionality.    As well as simple mud slinging.

 Flexibility is more than just about accepting new things.   Its also about being flexible as a person.   (as well as accepting Older things as well as newer)

 Everything has a reason and a season.    You may have different opinions on what you care to use... but that doesnt negate its uses, and advantages.

 And yeah... You skipped right over the part where I mentioned "Filters".   Meaning, HLSL  stuff.
Its nice, but its still not accurate.   Its also a pain to try to dial in.

 Yes, CRTs do limit use of Newer games.   (with possible exception to a converter being used)     But thats a price many are willing to pay, to get the correct arcade experience.   One without any hiccups, as well as looking correct.


 Its not always what you say... but How its said... that causes the "Sandpaper" effect.

[Xiaou2]

Some people can enjoy games for what they are instead of crying that the LCD screen doesn't bleed colour between the pixels or whatever. In a heated game of street fighter, I actually don't end up doing street fighter moves to the cabinet because even though it has an LCD in it it still weighs a bunch. I guess if I gained another 150 pounds and put my weight into it I suppose...

 Try a marathon of Robotron, and see how you fare.  Bring a couple of friends and alternate.   Some people are more reactive.
Also, leaf sticks may be a good part of it too.

 Robotron is far more intense a game, and usually causes a good deal of adrenalin.   Ive seen many real Robotron cabinets get moved around.
Im sure Ive done it myself a bit too.

[HanoiBoi]

Xiaou2, you always tell it as you see it...any mistakes to share?

My mistakes are slightly different than those posted.  I often get stuck on stuff and dont know how to best move on.  Ill research off and on, but not quite find an a solution, then skip it.  Too much unfinshed.  Mostly stuck on stuff like graphics and lectricity.  Pretty bad at both..and sadly dont feel that I'll get better.

On the LCD/CRT thing...personally, I'm fine with LCD, but I  understand and appreciate those who feel differently.  In addition, I also have no problem playing vertical games on my horizontally mounted LCD, but  I guess I understand why some might want to rotate their monitors or build a 2nd dedicated cab.

[shponglefan]

LCDs lifespan is about 5 years max... if your lucky.   A good CRT can last well over 20 years without repairs.

I'd be curious to know where you are getting this information from.

I've owned 7 LCD monitors and only one developed issues.  And those issues were related to the bad power supply capacitors that hit LCDs back a number of years ago, and are a relatively easy repair (if you know a bit about soldering and electronics).  In fact, I still have the first LCD monitor I ever bought (a Syncmaster 930B) and it's about 10 years old.  Still works perfectly.

I've also had relatively good success with CRTs, but did have a couple develop some problems.  And I did witness one instance at work where a CRT died resulting in a loud bang and puff of smoke.  CRTs may not go bad often, but when they do the results can be scary. 

Older Console gaming systems look better on CRTs as well.

I think that might depend on the consoles.  I've done a lot of NES/SNES gaming on CRT TVs and emulated on newer LCDs, and I have no desire to go back to CRT displays.

As odd as this may sound, I've actually found my favorite display for console gaming is now my smartphone.  SNES games in particular look incredible, and I haven't had issues with screen tearing or judder.  They do look more pixelated than older CRTs simply because of the lack of scanlines, but color-wise they are far more vivid.

[SavannahLion]

@ shponglefan

Of the four big screens in the last.... five years or something, three developed problems. The first became unusuable and the cost of parts alone exceeded what I paid. The second had the UI board fail twice and the fiberoptic jack is broken. The third (a plasma) has a bad shift register that results in ugly lines along the last two inches or so of screen real estate. Only the UI board failed during warranty and it failed again after warranty ended.

In the span of thirty plus years, I had two big screen CRT's and dozens of smaller screens. With probably three easily repaired failures and only one catastrophic unrepairable failure.

Besides total destruction during storage the CRT is coming out ahead in longevity.

I see a lot of flat screens kicked to the curb throughout the year. I used to take them to scavange the parts or get them working again  but when the IC's are hard to come by or cost nearly as much as the monitor, it's not worth my time anywmore. If I was lucky, it might be a broken back light, easy enough fix but otherwise? I just leave 'em on the curb now.

[Malenko]

Besides total destruction during storage the CRT is coming out ahead in longevity.

I dont think that was ever a question, CRTs can last a very very very long time. X2 is saying an LCD is good for 5 years tops if you're lucky, and I dont think that's an accurate statement at all. I think the worst part is he is once again selling opinion as fact and its quite tiresome. I also love that fact he didnt reply if he ever made any mistakes and what they were. 

[Howard_Casto]

My test monitor for computers and misc projects is an old 19' 4:3 lcd.  It will be hitting the 20 year mark very soon.  My experience has been that lcd televisions have poor lifespans... lcd monitors, on the other hand, last quite a while.  Yes, apparently there is a difference.... I'm not sure what that difference is other than a lack of a tuner, but that has been my observation anyway.  The one I'm using to view this site right now is a HP 2009m (which means it was made in 2009).  It's still as crisp as the day I took it out of the package.

Ignoring that though.... yes, the lifespan will be shorter, but you are also going to pay 1/3 the cost (or less) than a new 15khz crt so it kind of evens out.  Sure you can get a used arcade monitor and rebuild it, but I'm going to count that labor into the cost.

[Ginsu Victim]

Xiaou2, you always tell it as you see it...any mistakes to share?

There's a rotating control panel worth mentioning.

[SavannahLion]

Xiaou2, you always tell it as you see it...any mistakes to share?

There's a rotating control panel worth mentioning.

I just....

[eds1275]

Xiaou2, you always tell it as you see it...any mistakes to share?

There's a rotating control panel worth mentioning.

I believe there has never been any proof of this other than he told of the legend of all accurate controls on one spinny board or something. I want pics!

[harveybirdman]

Wasn't that the one on Crapmame?

[yotsuya]

Wasn't that the one on Crapmame?

[Token]

Wasn't that the one on Crapmame?

The original source has more pictures. If you view it as an early prototype rather than a playable cabinet, it does show ingenuity. Crapmame was a good introduction to see what kinds of mistakes to avoid, but it really isn't fair to judge early MAME efforts by today's standards.

OK, and I can't resist posting the archived link to Steve's Kung Fu and Inventions Page.

Incidentally, I've been thinking about naming my MAME project the "Wayback Machine."



 

[yotsuya]

Wasn't that the one on Crapmame?

The original source has more pictures. If you view it as an early prototype rather than a playable cabinet, it does show ingenuity. Crapmame was a good introduction to see what kinds of mistakes to avoid, but it really isn't fair to judge early MAME efforts by today's standards.

OK, and I can't resist posting the archived link to Steve's Kung Fu and Inventions Page.

Incidentally, I've been thinking about naming my MAME project the "Wayback Machine."

!!!

Great find, especially if you go to the original source you linked. Reading this thoughts on the design was very illuminating.

[pbj]

His kung fu attic is literally the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.  Malenko's rape dungeon game room is second.

[yotsuya]

His kung fu attic is literally the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.  Malenko's rape dungeon game room is second.

The sketches remind me of this dude I befriended on a "Robotech" alt.fan group. We talked about setting up a fan page for the show (this was like around 1999). He sent me a link to his Geocities page, and it was filled with his own hand-penciled sketches of handguns, drawn on notebook paper. Needless to say, the fan page didn't happen. 

[Malenko]

Malenko's rape dungeon game room is second.

Bro, its just an unfinished garage!

[SavannahLion]

His kung fu attic is literally the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.  Malenko's rape dungeon game room is second.

The sketches remind me of this dude I befriended on a "Robotech" alt.fan group. We talked about setting up a fan page for the show (this was like around 1999). He sent me a link to his Geocities page, and it was filled with his own hand-penciled sketches of handguns, drawn on notebook paper. Needless to say, the fan page didn't happen. 

Same thing here for a popular game. Guy showed me his gay fanfur page filled with sketches.

[Malenko]

His kung fu attic is literally the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.  Malenko's rape dungeon game room is second.

Also, then you didnt see this on his page:

[pbj]

Are we really going to go through the bash Xiaou2's website from 10+ years ago thing again?  I had plenty of cringe worthy stuff on Geocities.  Thank god I never made crapmame.

[Malenko]

Are we really going to go through the bash Xiaou2's website from 10+ years ago thing again?  I had plenty of cringe worthy stuff on Geocities.  Thank god I never made crapmame.

So you bash his attic and thats cool, I laugh at his hair and only Im the dick? 

good talk 

[yotsuya]

Are we really going to go through the bash Xiaou2's website from 10+ years ago thing again?  I had plenty of cringe worthy stuff on Geocities.  Thank god I never made crapmame.

I must have missed that the first time around.

Again, I actually enjoyed reading the thought process behind the control polka barrel. Dat hair, tho.