BYOAC Talking Dead - Walking Dead Season 5

[Howard_Casto]

Well that was some utter b.s. 

I'll allow it though because we get Glenn back.  Probably just in time for him to die, but whatever. 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok now that the drama is over how about a lack of logic alert?

This whole episode we keep hearing the idea "If only we could get to one of the cars outside we could drive off and lure the herd away."

So let's say you are in Alexandria and you have a gate at the entrance to the town wide enough to drive a car through.  Do you keep your car:

a.  Inside the town so that in a worst case scenario like what happened tonight, you can drive the hell away.

or

b.  Park it outside because LOL you need the exercise or whatever excuse the show runners want to make up.

Seriously I thought with last season all the dumb writing was finally out of everyone's system but this season is like the revenge of the stupid. 

[harveybirdman]

They couldn't pay rights for any more NIN music.

[dkersten]

Ok now that the drama is over how about a lack of logic alert?

This whole episode we keep hearing the idea "If only we could get to one of the cars outside we could drive off and lure the herd away."

So let's say you are in Alexandria and you have a gate at the entrance to the town wide enough to drive a car through.  Do you keep your car:

a.  Inside the town so that in a worst case scenario like what happened tonight, you can drive the hell away.

or

b.  Park it outside because LOL you need the exercise or whatever excuse the show runners want to make up.

Seriously I thought with last season all the dumb writing was finally out of everyone's system but this season is like the revenge of the stupid.

I agree, but if you used logic then you wouldn't have a story..

I have to add though, it's tough to stay logical when trying to craft a situation in a story.  There is always a point where you just have to decide someone did something illogical or even just plain stupid that led to the situation.  Perhaps the people of Alexandria got rid of the cars so nobody would be tempted to suicide into the walls.  Perhaps they decided that there was nowhere to go so they didn't need cars.  Perhaps they figured driving a car into the place would pull walkers to the gates.  Or maybe they are just that dumb.  If they had a car, or better yet, a big ass truck with mud tires that won't get stuck on zombie guts and has big swords sticking out the sides so they can mow down and chop up zombie hordes, then the story wouldn't be dramatic.  They would open the gates, drive out yelling "Yeeee-Hawwww!" and the episode would be over.  Granted, it would be a cool episode, but no drama.  Unless they got into the middle of the horde and it stalled and they were stuck with a thousand zombies around them.. that would be fun, but maybe they could all just crawl under a dumpster and the zombies would go away...

What I find illogical is building walls like that but without a fallback or even gating off sections in case one section fails.. I can sit here and think of a hundred things that would make perfect sense in that kind of world for making a "safe" place to live but I guess the writers just decided to make all the characters really dumb. 

BTW, if that wall used 4" I-beams set in the ground every 4 feet, the walls would have bent *maybe* but not just come down completely..  It might have allowed a small gap for walkers to get in but if the town rallied they could stem the flow, fight them as they come in one at a time, and soon the pile of bodies would be a new wall.  My brother drove into a fence built with 3" I-Beams, and it tore the car up to pieces but didn't even scratch the fence.  A wooden house, even a few tons of it, wouldn't do that.  But again, if you use logic you end up with no drama.

[Blackfoot]

[/quote]
What I find illogical is building walls like that but without a fallback or even gating off sections in case one section fails.. I can sit here and think of a hundred things that would make perfect sense in that kind of world for making a "safe" place to live but I guess the writers just decided to make all the characters really dumb. 

BTW, if that wall used 4" I-beams set in the ground every 4 feet, the walls would have bent *maybe* but not just come down completely..  It might have allowed a small gap for walkers to get in but if the town rallied they could stem the flow, fight them as they come in one at a time, and soon the pile of bodies would be a new wall.  My brother drove into a fence built with 3" I-Beams, and it tore the car up to pieces but didn't even scratch the fence.  A wooden house, even a few tons of it, wouldn't do that.  But again, if you use logic you end up with no drama.
[/quote]

Its almost like you've read the comic.  Sometimes I feel like they should just follow the book, but then again the book may translate terribly to the screen.  Case in point is Negan, and Ezekiel.  I don't know how the hell they are going to pull off making either of these characters believable as human beings. 

[harveybirdman]

Or Shiva for that matter...

[pbj]

Its almost like you've read the comic.  Sometimes I feel like they should just follow the book, but then again the book may translate terribly to the screen.  Case in point is Negan, and Ezekiel.  I don't know how the hell they are going to pull off making either of these characters believable as human beings.

Nah, they just gotta find a kid that's had half his head blown off rather than try to do the CGI on Carl.

[Blackfoot]

Or Shiva for that matter...

God I hope they get a real tiger. 

[dkersten]

Its almost like you've read the comic.

Nope, never read it.  I get to judge the show on its merits alone.

[Howard_Casto]

In regards to what you said.  Nope plot isn't an excuse to throw logic out the window.  It's a sign of inferior writing.  If your goal is to make an adequate story then knock yourself out, but if you want to make art... everything has to make sense AND drama and character development has to take place. 

The criticism I've had about this show since day one is that the writers seem to think up death scenes or dramatic exchanges between characters and then write plot around them.  That's backwards.  Write a general plot, make sure it doesn't have any holes in it, and then go back and discover  how the characters would react to the situation and what kind of exchanges can be written.  It's a lot harder to write that way, but the end result will be more genuine.  It's pretty obvious which episodes are written that way and which ones aren't. 

[dkersten]

I wouldn't disagree, Howard, but I have also sat in that chair trying to write a story.  It IS difficult to just try to write a plot and get it to where you want it to be while still keeping it exciting and unpredictable.  Logic is predictable and boring.  So you have to make your characters do stupid things, make mistakes in logic.  Some of it can be excused with character development (ie show why that character would make that dumb choice), but it is easy to end up with a bunch of really illogical characters.  Add to it producers who are constantly evolving the story to fit what the audience wants most and you have a situation where even the best writers will be forcing situations rather than letting them happen naturally.

If the story was completely logical, it would have ended a long time ago at the prison where they would have fortified it, fixed it up, and made life too boring for a TV show. 

[thomas_surles]

that little son of porch dick. Both of them actually. Did anybody watch yet?

[HaRuMaN]

that little son of porch dick. Both of them actually. Did anybody watch yet?

Yup, watched last night... 

[JMB]

I'm not sure what is more annoying, 25 minutes of commercials or AMC forcing "Into the Badlands" down my throat by making the next episode preview during the first commercial break.

[harveybirdman]

Into the Badlands is atrocious...


But yeah I was disappointed that we didn't get to see what's going to happen after Sam starts attracting all of the zombies..  That has potential to be as disturbing as the Terminus trough scene.

[HaRuMaN]

Into the Badlands is atrocious...


But yeah I was disappointed that we didn't get to see what's going to happen after Sam starts attracting all of the zombies..  That has potential to be as disturbing as the Terminus trough scene.

Oh I know.  I was sitting there, thinking "stfu, sam"

[Howard_Casto]

I think into the Badlands has potential but unfortunately none of it is showing yet.  They seem to think that everything they are doing is ground breaking for television.  I'll just kindly direct them to Buffy for the fake-fu chop-suey action and Firefly for the overall aesthetic of the show.   Basically it's a Joss Weadon show without all the interesting characters. 
So yeah, work on the characters and there *might* be something interesting.

Also they REALLY need to explain why people from the south are acting like samurai and have somehow removed guns from the equation.  That's the most improbable thing ever.  Find a southerner willing to keep slaves and essentially be an 1800's plantation owner and tell them they have to get rid of guns and adopt the clothes and traditions of a non-white race.  That'll go real well.  Also note that none of the slaves are black...and it's the south.... yeah, I think they might be over compensating a little. 

Back to Walking Dead....

Anyway if you read the comics you know that the annoying kids won't be around much longer.  I doubt they'll  last the first 5 minutes of the mid-season premiere.  At least I'm hoping.  Shoot I was hoping Diana would eat that annoying baby that somehow magically never causes trouble for the group.  We had to suffer through Carl's dumb kid antics all through season 2...I'm done with kids. 

The real news is Negan.  As per usual Hardwick has absolutely nothing bad to say and all I can say is they must pay him an awful lot of money to lie like that.  It's the worst casting I've ever seen.  Negan is kind of fat, wears a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- eating grin all the time, has a Fred Flintstone beard, slicks his hair back, and has a potty mouth worse than Jason Mewes.  So of course they get a thin, low key actor that looks, talks and acts nothing like him.  Also no Lucille.  No Lucille means no Negan.

[thomas_surles]

am I the only one who hates Carol? I hope she dies soon. as for the wolf I think he's gonna throw DR. what's her face to the board as a distraction and make a clean get away (that's what I would do)
I am interested in this mid season premier they kept amping up on talking dead.

And the Negan thing in the sneak peek. They could've just sped up and plowed through the bikes and been done with it, but I guess that would be too easy.

[adder]

.....And the Negan thing in the sneak peek. They could've just sped up and plowed through the bikes and been done with it....

the vehicle is a fuel truck....
all of the biker guys had guns.

needless to say, they dont want a single bullet shot at the fuel truck while they are in it.

[Howard_Casto]

Except.... that's not how guns work.  Don't feel bad, Hollywood as conditioned you to believe that firing into a tank of gas will make it explode, but it's just a myth.  Gasoline is a rather stable fuel believe it or not.  It's technically possible that a big enough spark couple with the optimum mix of gasoline vapors to oxygen could be made to ignite, but it's very unlikely.

I'm pretty sure the reason they stopped were those assault rifles the bikers were holding and how those tend to make short work of a person. 

Carol just has unbelievably bad timing.  She's been able to keep herself emotionally closed off this whole time and she decides to have a moment of (lack of) conscience now?  Morgan was right (he's always right btw) now wasn't the time and if she was in her right mind she'd know that but she has to prove some stupid point to herself.  They need a doctor for upcoming events, so I think she'll be fine.

[dkersten]

Into the badlands is post apocalyptic, hundreds of years from now after devastating wars, and they explained that guns were banned by the barons when they came to power.  I think it has potential, but face it, it's regular TV, so they can't make it as gritty as it should be.  The Japanese martial arts style fights with the wires and all that are fun to watch.. We all know it isn't realistic but that isn't why fans of that genre watch them.  Please don't compare it to Buffy though, that's like comparing a post 90's  VanDamme flick to Enter the Dragon or even Bloodsport... I think Buffy was choreographed by some white guy with a green belt in karate... As for the setting, well sure it's not far from Firefly, but then how many ways can you make a futuristic-regressed setting?  It fits the show.  It isn't called "Into the Forest" or "Into the Suburbs", it's "Into the Badlands" and the badlands look just like I would imagine so far.. sort of old west throwback in the city and the estates are old plantation like fortresses.. I like how they still have cars and oil is a big thing, and the doctors have some really rudimentary tech like old x-rays but nothing high tech at all...

 Frankly the only thing I have against it so far is the lack of ranged weapons.  Even banning guns, I can't see the logic in not having some kind of bows.  Why go toe to toe with the most feared hand to hand fighter when you can have a half dozen guys with bows shooting at him from all directions.. I don't care if he were a frickin Jedi, he isn't going to dodge a half dozen arrows all coming from different hidden locations.  But I assume that's why they don't have them (aside from the few crossbows in the last episode)... add the bows and arrows and you no longer have a viable premise for the show.  Tough to say if it will fall apart, it very well might, but honestly it is better than 95% of the shows on TV this season.  Most of the stuff on regular channels is just a rehash of the same crap from the last two decades.. we've got some 75 different CSI type dramas (I think CSI Two Dot, Montana is airing over the Christmas break, followed by CSI Buffalo, Wyoming.. they're running out of even small towns now), a few fireman/doctor/police dramas (Is it Chicago Fire now, Police? EMT? Or maybe it's Chicago Streetsweepers this year... Chicago MeterMaids?), and some really weak comedy that isn't worth flipping to.  Yay.  The only stuff even halfway original might be on sci-fi but then production quality is down to what a few high school students could do in an afternoon with a camera phone and a makeup kit. 

I mostly watch the pay channel shows now, some of the streaming originals, and a few shows on AMC.  (Oh and Street Outlaws.. that show rocks)  If I had more time for TV, I might watch one of the attempts at DC comic shows, like Gotham, flash, arrow, or Supergirl, but *yawn* wait, what was I saying? Oh yeah, most non-pay channel stuff sucks. 

The only thing I have to say about TWD is it sucks to have to wait 2 and a half months for more...

[Howard_Casto]

No, they didn't explain that guns were banned, they stated that guns were banned.  That's my point... they need to explain because that's impossible.   Ok let's say you are a Baron or what have you and you get together with all the other Barons and agree that there will be no more guns.  Well the first thing that will happen is any gangs or criminal organizations left in the area will shoot your gang down and take power.  So the only way to take down these remaining gangs is with, your guessed it, guns.  Now you can give up your guns and hope the other barons do the same, or do what every ruler has done since the dawn of time, keep your superior deterrent on hand just in case.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a pacifist, I'm against violence, but it doesn't mean I'm blind to how "normal" people think.

You must not be very familiar with Firefly.  The show is an Asian and old west fusion of a setting.  I can't think of many other shows that came up with that concept or have used it since, except for this one.

I WILL compare it to Buffy, because like Buffy the use of the martial arts as it pertains to the story really sucks.  All these really, really white Barons somehow know kung-fu because .... reasons?  All of society revolves around martial arts... again... no reason... because it looks cool?  At least Buffy was written well enough to where a lot of that nonsense could be ignored.

There is such a thing as suspension of disbelief.  If the entire world doesn't make sense then you are on pretty shaky ground.  It's exactly what I was talking about in regards to TWD last week.  You can't think of a really cool look or concept and just write around it expecting people to ignore the rather obvious plot holes... stuff has to make sense first and you can create a visual style or concept out of your thoroughly thought out, air-tight story.   

You are really stabbing yourself in the foot because the DC tv series is some of the best shows on TV paid or otherwise.  Mind you the CW shows are decidedly skewed to a young audience... they aren't for me... but I can appreciate what they are doing.  Gotham is pretty fantastic.  It's a slow burn and a lot of people just don't get the show because they superficially just want to see Batman, but it has a lot going for it.  I don't agree with a few of the plots going on as it pertains to some of the characters, especially the Riddler, but it reminds me of those extremely rare instances in the comics where they allow a guest writer to go nuts ignoring canon and it actually turns out amazing, like Frank Millers Dark Knight Returns (the original, not the questionable sequels). 

[dkersten]

So after hundreds of years of people barely surviving in a post apocalyptic world, is there supposed to be some massive stash of ammunition for guns that never went bad?  Ever shot a case of ammo from Vietnam era military surplus?  After only a few decades, you start getting a lot of misfires.  So a century or two later where would they get their ammo?  Why is it so hard to believe guns are no longer readily available, particularly when the people in power are killing anyone in possession of one?  I could believe nomads with muskets maybe, and like I said, other missile weapons like bows and crossbows (which they do use), but even in TWD, guns are getting scarce.  Look at books (and movies) like The Road... he has a gun but nobody believes he has bullets for it because nobody has bullets anymore...  One of the worst parts of TWD is how they managed to scrounge up so much ammo.  In Montana I might believe it, lol, I have friends with stashes of well over 100,000 rounds, but where are they finding all this ammo in a world where they can't even find a car that runs or gas to fill the tank?? Especially Rick's very oddball hand cannon... Fast forward another hundred years in TWD and tell me how much ammo they are finding..

I can totally believe a post apocalyptic world without guns, just as I can believe a world without new models of cars, new televisions, new computer processors, or any other kind of advanced technology that can't be reproduced with rudimentary tools or basic farming equipment...  Guns are precision tools, and ammo is not as simple as finding some bat ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and mixing it with sulfer.. smokeless powder, precision casings.. all things that a technology poor population would be lacking.

Buffy's "martial arts" were "Americanized".  The fight scenes in this show are in the same style as you would see in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.  YES, it is unrealistic, you can't do half the things they do in reality, but it isn't always about being 100% real.  If everything had to be possible, TWD wouldn't even be a story.  A plague hit, people died, the end.  No zombies because a body can't move without fuel and oxygen.  Period.  So you have to have SOME kind of leeway in the suspension of disbelief.  Frankly, I didn't start watching TWD until the end of the second season because I could care less about zombies.  Zombies sell books right now but I didn't write zombies into my own books.. I don't like them.  But the zombies are the "fun" part that people enjoy - the makeup effects and CGI that people think is cool to see.  The real story though is about the people.. the "human condition", and TWD does that well.  In Badlands, the martial arts is the "fun" part that isn't realistic but cool to watch anyway.  I love a badass character who is practically impossible to stop.  Mix the two and I like it already, just like some were drawn to TWD because of zombies.  The story and characters are what will decide if it has legs, and so far it isn't horrible.  It will take a few more episodes to figure out if it has any longevity.  If TWD's story and characters had ended up sucking, the makeup and cgi would have carried it maybe to season 3, but it wouldn't have gone any further.  Most fans would stop watching after the novelty of the makeup effects got old.

I tried to watch Flash once.. acting and dialogue and general writing were godawful.  Same with Arrow.  I thought about Supergirl but the commercials alone scream cheese and if they can't make a preview look good, the actual show must really suck.  I heard Gotham might be worthwhile, but I have enough shows on my plate, so if it has legs, I might binge watch it after a few seasons.

[DaOld Man]

About the Into the Badlands: I like it, so far so good. You have to take it that guns are not there. They were outlawed, destroyed, or something (Guy at work said obama must have got his way LOL).
Anyway, I can see where it will start to drag, if they focus too much on the baron with the tumor and start to let the action lag.

Now about TWD: Morgan should have let Carol kill the wolf. I mean it wasnt like he would have been doing it.
I can now see that the end of this episode could be a lot like the end of the prison, where everyone gets separated. I hope they dont make a habit of using this scenario on all the (mid) season finales.
Also about the baby Judith, are the writers saving her for something later?

Now on a side note: who caught the commercial for Better Call Saul? I am looking forward to that show coming back.

[wp34]

I'm watching Into the Badlands but am an episode behind.  I must have missed where they stated guns were banned.  It would be nice to know more of the back-story concerning guns and whatever happened to the world to put them in that predicament.  It seems to be a bit of lazy writing and I agree with Howard that just banning guns doesn't seem practical.  Don't get me wrong not having guns makes the show much more interesting.  I'd just like to know more about how this world came to be.

The "no guns" scenario reminds me of the S.M. Stirling series "Dies the Fire."  There are actually a number of elements in the show that remind me of that book series.

[harveybirdman]

Remind me to make a season 6 Talking Dead post in February...


While we're on the subject though ITBL seems to be just a rehash of that one movie with Woody Harrelson, what was it? Bunraku? or some junk?

[thomas_surles]

so I just saw the trailer for "The Boy" starring Lauren Cohan (Maggie) So is it safe to say she gets killed off soon?

[Ginsu Victim]

so I just saw the trailer for "The Boy" starring Lauren Cohan (Maggie) So is it safe to say she gets killed off soon?

No, they aren't always working on Walking Dead. They do have other projects.

[CCM]

so I just saw the trailer for "The Boy" starring Lauren Cohan (Maggie) So is it safe to say she gets killed off soon?

Well, then by your logic Daryl, Carol, Glenn, Eugene, Father Gabriel, Jessie, and Morgan will all be getting killed off soon, as they all have movies coming out in 2016.

[thomas_surles]

so I just saw the trailer for "The Boy" starring Lauren Cohan (Maggie) So is it safe to say she gets killed off soon?

Well, then by your logic Daryl, Carol, Glenn, Eugene, Father Gabriel, Jessie, and Morgan will all be getting killed off soon, as they all have movies coming out in 2016.

well besides daryl, I think all of them will die soon. unless they give glenns beating to someone else. but I see your point.

[jdbailey1206]

Speaking of Lauren Cohan...



And just because...

[thomas_surles]

Speaking of Lauren Cohan...



And just because...

now I hope she lives...

[DaOld Man]

Its not easy to type after seeing those pics of Lauren, but....

Tonight is the season opening of TWD!!!!!!

AMC 8:00 PM CST

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not feeling super good about it.  They've mis-cast Negan horribly.  Finally a character on the show that looks like me and they cast a sad, soft-spoken old man instead.

[Ginsu Victim]

He played The Comedian...I think he'll do fine.

[Howard_Casto]

Well I thought it was the old biker dude from the way they shot it... my bad. 

This was a paint-by-the-numbers re-hash of the comic so it didn't do a lot for me, but damn... when he whipped out the rocket launcher I had the urge to shout "E C Dubya!, E C Dubya!"  Pretty shocked they went through with the Carl bit as well.  The episode was shot and paced beautifully, but it's a shame that all the major plot beats are taken directly from the comic, so there isn't much for the comic readers to get excited about. 

Anyway, all I want to know is when do we get to see the frikkin tiger?

[DaOld Man]

Pretty good show.
Almost thought Carl finally bit the dust.
When Glenn was getting pinned against the fence, I thought "Oh no, here we go again."
Very good season opener. I hope they keep the excitement going.
I've been thinking, we dont know much about Eugene's past. I figure they will eventually do a whole show on him, like they did the guvner and morgan.

[harveybirdman]

New thread?

I liked it, very inspiring how they took down the entire herd.

It's not exactly like the comic because Morgan is still alive.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah but they've been doing that since season 1.  It's the Rick and Carl show, so you can kind of swap out the deaths of the expendable characters without it meaning much in the overall scheme of things.

[dkersten]

When Glenn was getting pinned against the fence, I thought "Oh no, here we go again."

Me and my girlfriend were screaming at the screen when he got pinned.. I was all "You went through ALL THAT BS with the dumpster only to kill him again?? NOOO!"  And then the walkers get mowed down without any bullets passing through their soft weak flesh to hit him, which was all good because they eliminated so many other people so fast.  I cheered..

I only knew about Carl living because of comments from here from the comic fans.  Oh well, that's what you get for reading the internet, lol.

I was surprised that after all the development with the mom and kids that they offed all of them.  The little kid, yeah, he needed to die.  The brother, or as they said in Talking Dead "Porch Dick Jr.", yeah, cool.  But it would have added some nice drama to keep the squeeze alive and have her degrade from watching her kids die.  Hell, drag her through that and turn her into a more bad assed version of Carol..  Oh well, one whole family down in a matter of seconds.  The pace felt off though for that whole scene.  I like how it moved the story forward, but that scene just felt ill-timed or something..

Great episode overall though.  And yeah, I was surprised (pleasantly) when the bikers blew up.. I almost rewound it to watch it again, lol..