BYOAC Talking Dead - Walking Dead Season 5

[jdbailey1206]

On a side note it was asked of the guests what would they have if they only have one single thing during the apocalypse.  Of course my answer at first was pretty generic at first.  I would only have a 250 gb iPod with my entire music collection on it.  But then I realized that there was something better.  Much better......







RICK GRIMES DAD JOKES!!!

All right.  Continue on.

[ChanceKJ]

RICK GRIMES DAD JOKES!!!

All right.  Continue on.

[jdbailey1206]

[harveybirdman]

What in the literal ---fudgesicle---?!?!?

I knew his death was coming but this wasn't what I expected.

And if they make him survive then they are pressing my suspension of disbelief to the limit.

[yotsuya]

What in the literal ---fudgesicle---?!?!?

I knew his death was coming but this wasn't what I expected.

And if they make him survive then they are pressing my suspension of disbelief to the limit.

Who?

[harveybirdman]

Glenn

[Howard_Casto]

Totally not dead... unless the SFX team have hit an all time low and think guts come from your chest. 

We won't find out next week though because the next episode appears to be a Morgan flashback. 

[harveybirdman]

Yeah plus Rick has to have reason to lose his mind and make war on the Saviors, if you lose Glenn here you have to think Daryl or Carol could meet Glenn's comic fate.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah and they can't kill Daryl because every woman on the planet would stop watching. 

Plus that b.s. statement they made on talking dead about him returning in one form or another.  I mean other than a pre-Atlanta flashback the only way they could have him return would be on that mediocre Fear the Walking Dead spinoff.  With Morgan getting a flashback episode next week, it seems unlikely there would be yet another flashback episode this season. 

[JMB]

It will be a joke if they have Glenn live through that. I don't care if the other clown's body was on top of him. There is no way he would be in the middle of all that screaming his lungs out and not get bitten somehow.

[harveybirdman]

It will be a joke if they have Glenn live through that. I don't care if the other clown's body was on top of him. There is no way he would be in the middle of all that screaming his lungs out and not get bitten somehow.

TRUTH!

[pbj]

So I'm kind of beyond zombies at this point, but figured I'd go back and touch base with this trend before the well was completely dry.  World War Z was actually a very entertaining book and it's a shame the movie is nothing like it.  Given the scale of most of the chapters, it was easily filmed.  Oh well.

After I gave up on this show (after about three episodes of me yelling JUST SHOOT HIM at the 'governor'), I decided I'd read the comic books. 

What amazes me is how many of the annoyances of the first two seasons is true to the comic book.  Surely they'd just shoot the tyrant rather than put up with him for months, right?  Nope.  Surely there aren't entire issues where absolutely nothing happens, right?  Nope.  Hilariously, when I caught up on the issues this summer, there was a gigantic twist and cliffhanger that left you wondering how any of it would be resolved.  The next issue?  Nothing happens.  ~146 issues into it and I give up.

Season 2 of the video game was good but nowhere near as good as the first one.  I played through with a friend and we made Clem as mean as possible.  Didn't budge the plot an inch.

Have the skin walkers made an appearance in the show yet?

[Howard_Casto]

It will be a joke if they have Glenn live through that. I don't care if the other clown's body was on top of him. There is no way he would be in the middle of all that screaming his lungs out and not get bitten somehow.

TRUTH!

Well see the thing is you guys apparently have faith in the writing staff to do things realistically.  Remember Dale's death?  How out Otis?  Hershel?  Yeah they aren't good at doing realistic deaths.  So based on what we visually saw at the end of that episode, no matter if he lives or dies, either result is b.s.  based on what they showed us at least. 

[dkersten]

OK, so let me get this straight.. you already have the virus, but you don't turn unless you die.  You can get bit and turn, but you can get cut and then get bled on by a zombie and not turn.  A zombie can walk for weeks or months with no food, no water, and even no blood moving to feed the muscles with energy to actually do this.  If you take away their teeth they can't eat and hence get complacent and don't attack, yet hordes of thousands with no food to keep them going can go on for months and still be aggressive.  You can cover yourself with zombie guts and blood and they won't eat you, but hack up a bunch of zombies and get all bloody and they still know to eat you.  All this and a hundred other holes and the thing that will lead to breaking your suspension of disbelief is the idea that Glenn could end up being shielded by a body while they eat it and not scurry under the dumpster or something to get away (or slash some legs, get blood on him and be camouflaged)... ? 

The story is the story, holes and all.  I don't agree with a ton of stuff they did but it's not my story, so I just have to take it for what it is.  I was surprised as hell when he went down, and like everyone else I am hoping some kind of miracle will happen.  The fact that they have not confirmed it in any way, shape, or form is enough to tell me he isn't dead until they say he is dead and show his dead body.  I could look for clues but there are too many holes already, so what's the point?  When they say he's dead, he's dead.  Chances are he's dead.  He's experienced and cool under pressure.. if his guts weren't being ripped out, he wouldn't be screaming like that.

On the one hand, I saw Glenn, Rick, Carl, and Darrell as the "unkillables".. the main characters in the story.  You could kill off Michone, Carol, or anyone else and I would be fine with it.  On the other hand, Glenn hasn't had much of a part for a while really.  He almost ate it, then took on the guy who tried to kill him like he was some kind of mentor.. That is the sum of what he did in the last season and a half.  Definitely just B-plot material, not main story line.  Killing him, in retrospect, makes sense.  They eliminated any importance of him in the story over the past dozen episodes and now it works to kill him.  It just happened in such an oddball way that it's disappointing.  A survivor doesn't put himself at risk to try to get a loser coward to make a decision under the pressure of life and death.  He should have taken charge and just gotten the hell out of there, and instead he trusted some idiot to lead him to a dead end.  Hell, get in a car and wait it out.. the horde will move on, leaving a few walkers trying to get in the car, then bust out.  DONE.  If anything upsets me about the holes in this series, it's how they ignore the obvious and always end up doing something idiotic.

[Vigo]

I think Glen hit his limit over a season ago. He has been honestly pretty lame as a character after the governor episodes.

And I also think this is panning out to be the best season so far. 3 episodes of action from beginning to end. Rick is as crazy as he is awesome. Carol goes Rambo style again. Walkers actually matter. The entire group is actually out doing something.

[dkersten]

I think Glen hit his limit over a season ago. He has been honestly pretty lame as a character after the governor episodes.

And I also think this is panning out to be the best season so far. 3 episodes of action from beginning to end. Rick is as crazy as he is awesome. Carol goes Rambo style again. Walkers actually matter. The entire group is actually out doing something.

I would agree.  Last week's episode was probably my favorite since the series began.. a lot of action, a lot of character coming out of people, and intensity.  I'm actually bummed that Glenn has been just a passenger in it all. 

[harveybirdman]

But I was so looking forward to Negen killing him.  It won't be same if they give that death to a lesser character, therefore I'm starting to worry about Daryl long term.

[Vigo]

But I was so looking forward to Negen killing him.  It won't be same if they give that death to a lesser character, therefore I'm starting to worry about Daryl long term.

Like when Bob stole Dale's death?

[DaOld Man]

friend at work brought up the possibility of Glenn being covered by the suicide guys guts and blood, thus protecting him from the zombies, such as Michone did.
But, Michone used zombie guts and blood, so I don't think this is a possibility, but who knows?
But this season appears to have picked up on the zombie action quite a bit. So far so good.
Also, shouldn't this thread be changed from Season 5 to Season 6?

[Howard_Casto]

But I was so looking forward to Negen killing him.  It won't be same if they give that death to a lesser character, therefore I'm starting to worry about Daryl long term.

Yeah that's the problem, Negan.  In the books it really gave the series a shot in the arm because nobody you cared about had died in over 5 years.  I assumed they would save Glenn on the show for that same impact.  It's a bit early to blow that wad.  Who's left that if you killed them I would genuinely be surprised.... Daryl, and that's it because they can't kill the title characters of Rick and Carl, Michone's the minority representative and honestly Carol has cheated death so many times it would surprise me if she died from burns taking a casserole out of the oven without mitts. 

About the zombie bites.... it doesn't make any sense at all.  The idea they based it around is sound... bacteria in the human mouth is nasty and zombie mouth has to be even worse.  It's more than enough to kill you from infection if untreated and since every dead person comes back.... there you go.  It's the "if left untreated" part that the show runners seem to gloss over.  So long as the wounds aren't fatal a buttload of antibiotics or hell, even pouring rubbing alcohol directly into the wound should take care of it.  It doesn't though, because reasons.  It contradicts the Hershel gimping because if the infection can't be cured via cleaning then lopping off his leg shouldn't have made any difference either.  We've also got Rick who just cut himself on a blade in a nasty zombies head.  That should be the same, infection wise, as a bite.  Pretty sure he won't kick the bucket though.  Blood splattering on you is ok because it isn't hitting an open wound. 

In the books they don't make these mistakes, but they sure as hell do on the show. 

[GGKoul]

Glenn is still alive.. He was not shown in the talking dead memorial.  Next week's episode will be focused on Morgan and how he got to where he is today.  Then Darryl will have his episode so it'll be 2 weeks minimum until we see Glenn escape.

[Howard_Casto]

Well zombies on the show seem kind of distracted when eating, so my theory is while they are chowing down on the other guy he crawls between their legs and uses that convientantly placed fire escape that they didn't use even though Glenn started as a scavenger in Atlanta literally traveling almost exclusively via fire escapes. 

[ChanceKJ]

.

[harveybirdman]

3:18

Don't remember seeing this yet, guess it could be a flashback.

[thomas_surles]

I hear Glenn goes under the dumpster. Plus he still has the flare right?

[Howard_Casto]

Either he'll die or he won't but the fact that they are going to make us wait two weeks, maybe more, to find out his fate is b.s.  you don't do a cliffhanger 3 shows in. 

[thomas_surles]

Either he'll die or he won't but the fact that they are going to make us wait two weeks, maybe more, to find out his fate is b.s.  you don't do a cliffhanger 3 shows in.

yeah it's retarded. I didn't like that scene. there was 2 really good escape routes 1. the fire escape and 2 the side fence with the woods behind it.
but now they are going to drag on with 3 episodes before they might go any further with it.

[ChanceKJ]

.

[behrmr]

...
And seriously, what the ---fudgesicle--- Rick?! A "cattle drive"??!  You could have just figured out a way to have a MASSIVE bonfire and lit that quarry up. Bonus it would have burnt for a few days and attracted more, and less walkers would be in the area.  Seriously the worst ---smurfing--- plan yet.

I couldn't agree more.  They talk about how they've "been out there".  But they don't act like it.   They know that there are groups of bad people "out there" so why would they think that doing all of this work outside of the walls is good idea?  You would think that they would understand the value of keeping their heads down instead of building structures, driving around in RV's and motorcyles, let alone shooting off flares FFS.

[Howard_Casto]

See I thought fear kind of sucked.  It sucked because it was a prequel and we knew exactly what was going to go down.  The military taking over bit has been done in every other zombie movie since dawn of the dead.  The character development was slightly better, but other than that....  I think now that they've got the boring origin story out of the way future seasons have more potential to surprise me though.

The one thing I love about walking dead is it's like a comic book movie that skips the origin story.  We know how a zombie outbreak goes down, it's been covered in every zombie movie since the 60's.  The walking dead takes place after the movie is over and the remaining survivors have to deal. 

I mentioned the burning thing in another forum.  Ever seen a tire dump where they burn tires?  That's what that zombie pit could have been like.  Light 'em up!  It'll take forever to burn a pile that big, so much so that any other walkers that get attracted and fall into the pit will catch on fire due to the still burning zombies.  More fuel for the flames!  It'd be a perpetual zombie bbq.... the problem takes care of itself and you just need to check on it every now and again. 

[harveybirdman]

yeah yeah yeah, but too late dudes... As you might remember what caused the plan to go into overdrive was one of the semi's fell off and started to release the hoard.

[Vigo]

...
And seriously, what the ---fudgesicle--- Rick?! A "cattle drive"??!  You could have just figured out a way to have a MASSIVE bonfire and lit that quarry up. Bonus it would have burnt for a few days and attracted more, and less walkers would be in the area.  Seriously the worst ---smurfing--- plan yet.

I couldn't agree more.  They talk about how they've "been out there".  But they don't act like it.   They know that there are groups of bad people "out there" so why would they think that doing all of this work outside of the walls is good idea?  You would think that they would understand the value of keeping their heads down instead of building structures, driving around in RV's and motorcyles, let alone shooting off flares FFS.

I thought the zombies from walking dead were kinda perpetually a pile of wet rot. I thought it would be like trying to burn wet leaves. You would need an ass ton of gasoline and resources to keep em burning. Not to mention the limited time span in order to do the job. They knew the semi truck was due to fall and unleash the herd. Sure enough it fell before they could even put up a practice plan. The cattle drive makes perfect sense to me.

[Vigo]

yeah yeah yeah, but too late dudes... As you might remember what caused the plan to go into overdrive was one of the semi's fell off and started to release the hoard.

Yep. This.

[DaOld Man]

...
And seriously, what the ---fudgesicle--- Rick?! A "cattle drive"??!  You could have just figured out a way to have a MASSIVE bonfire and lit that quarry up. Bonus it would have burnt for a few days and attracted more, and less walkers would be in the area.  Seriously the worst ---smurfing--- plan yet.

I couldn't agree more.  They talk about how they've "been out there".  But they don't act like it.   They know that there are groups of bad people "out there" so why would they think that doing all of this work outside of the walls is good idea?  You would think that they would understand the value of keeping their heads down instead of building structures, driving around in RV's and motorcyles, let alone shooting off flares FFS.

I thought the zombies from walking dead were kinda perpetually a pile of wet rot. I thought it would be like trying to burn wet leaves. You would need an ass ton of gasoline and resources to keep em burning. Not to mention the limited time span in order to do the job. They knew the semi truck was due to fall and unleash the herd. Sure enough it fell before they could even put up a practice plan. The cattle drive makes perfect sense to me.

Yeah, this might have been proven when Daryl and Beth set the old farm house on fire. The dead were burnt black but still got around pretty good.
Also, didnt they set them on fire when they had that pit full of them after the governor did his walk about?

[ChanceKJ]

.

[dkersten]

The fire wouldn't work simply because they don't have enough fuel.. they would need to dump a few hundred tons of napalm in there to do that, and I'm pretty sure they don't have that.

What gets me though is how there are tons of vehicles all over.  Just get a few more trucks and go block the path.  Then in the months you will have while that holds you can just come in and dig a trench, sealing them off forever.  Done.

I liked Fear because it isn't about what's happening, it's about how people reacted to it happening.  People love apocalyptic stories, not because they love how things go to hell, but rather how people overcome it.  If you were in that situation and didn't know anything more than you KNOW today (ie you KNOW that zombies don't exist and that the world isn't going to go apocalypse tomorrow, so whatever actions you take you will likely end up in front of a judge for in the near future), then how would you react.  I find it fascinating to see other people's take on how things would go down.  Fear is about the people's reaction to the situation.  TWD is about surviving and overcoming. 

I didn't watch TWD for the first two seasons.  I don't like zombies.  I think they are dumb.  I don't like the gruesome deaths.  I like action, just not explicit maiming of human bodies.  So I didn't watch because I thought it was about zombies.  Then people were telling me it was more about the human condition - how do people react to the situation.  How do they survive and what does it cost them?  What do they become?  How does the world really change for them?  I don't mean in the obvious ways, but how do they live?  I mean, face it, someone close to you gets seriously sick and your world stops.  You break up or get divorced and your world is upside down.  You get sick or injured and your world takes on a whole different meaning.  Now imagine all that times a million.  Not only are things not OKAY now, they never will be... ever... You will never sleep again without the fear that you could wake up being eaten.  You will never be able to have a child without knowing the chances of that child seeing it's first birthday are slim to none.  How does that affect a person?  THAT is why I watch the show. 

Then again, I'm a Post Apocalyptic Fiction author, so I guess you could say I spend a lot of time thinking about this kind of stuff.

[DaOld Man]

Good episode tonight.
I was worried that this episode was going to go the same route as the guvnors spotlight episode, but it was pretty good.
This shows how morgan morphed from the crazy guy to the good guy.

[Howard_Casto]

It was and it wasn't.  It was completely cliché and totally predictable, right up to the ending.  I did think the acting was very good.  Unfortunately that doesn't fix a bad script. 

All the Ninja Turtle references sure were strange, until I realized Donatello did the choreography.  What was odd though was the script writer emailing Hardwick on talking dead and basically refuting making any deliberate message, which makes him a liar or the dumbest, most culturally ignorant writer on the planet.  My bet is on the latter... the production crew probably threw all the references in and he was too dumb to catch them. 

Still....... two of my favorite actors chewing up the scenery for an hour and a half... not to shabby. 


Now for the love of cliffhangers can we get back to Glenn?

[harveybirdman]

The episode was ok, but it does bother me when they start anointing it as "genius" on the talking dead.

It's an interesting back story but it's placement was gimmicky.  The Glenn thing still feels like a cheap exploitation of the audience.

Plus the philosophy that Morgan seems to be aspiring too simply does not work in tribal society, and while it touches on the central theme of the show,  Humanity vs Survival, it is as starkly out of balance as the philosophy of the wolves and it is hard for me to accept justification for either.  I sort of understand the conclusions the Termites came to but are we to believe some trauma was visited upon the wolves? They make no sense to me.

I hate seeing characters be so stupid.

[Howard_Casto]

Hardwick thinks Doctor Who has good writing, so compared to that yeah TWD probably does seem genius. 

Well it contradicts itself as well.  You've got Eastman preaching that out of 800+ cases he only met one man that was truly evil, and yet... the wolves kind of spit in the face of that theory don't they?  Then he's preaching all this non-violence and yet... he watched a man (an admittedly evil man) starve for 47 days.  I think if he would have captured the guy but eventually let him go I would have bought it, but watching someone slowly starve to death and then go "ok no more killing" seems like nothing more than lip service. 

I don't disagree with the fact that the philosophy of non-violence doesn't work in tribal society, but I think that's kind of the point... if you ever want to elevate your community out of a tribal society then you need to institute such philosophies, regardless of the consequences.  Some things are more important than survival... like living a proper life.