My first build : Clint. Finished.

[Louis Tully]

.

[yamatetsu]

Thanks Louis ! Now I have something to work with.    I recall that sometime ago someone had the problem of one button being too close to the stick, which was solved by unscrewing the mounting plate, rotating it 90 degrees and screwing it back on.  Didn't think of that. D'oh.

My main concern would be the left stick being to close to the side wall, a lesser concern the possibility of hitting the P2 stick when using the trackball, that's why I placed the P2 controls so high up. I will do a cardboard mockup and see if it fits. I sure hope so.

Oh, I forgot : The third stick is gone, I can use my UltraStik instead. I'm thinking of kicking the exit & pause buttons also, using a shift combo instead. That would save me driliing two holes if I redo the panel 

[yamatetsu]

Bad news. I did the mockup, the P1 stick is just too close to the side wall. I can barely put three fingers between the balltop and the wall, and I don't even have big hands. It just isnt' comfortable.



This would work if it was a cab meant for children, but not for me.

I fixed the board using rablack's suggestions, the CP will look like this.

[yamatetsu]

After staring vacantly at it for a long time, I thought about ditching the admin buttons, keeping only the p1/p2 start buttons and shift-combo-ing the others.

This is what I'm leaning towards now.

[BGoulette]

I like that layout much more, but now Clint is stretched horizontally! Any chance you could scale him up a bit and keep his proportions?

[pbj]

[rablack97]

After vacantly staring at it for a long time, I thought about ditching the admin buttons, keeping only the p1/p2 start buttons and shift-combo-ing the others.

This is what I'm leaning towards now.

Keep your credit buttons man...lose pause if anything.

plr start and credit for each side.....

unless you plan on using your coin door permanently.

[pbj]

Could also get a couple of poker buttons, crack them open, stick some artwork inside, and mount on the front of the cabinet. 

I've found that works exceptionally well that 0.01% of the time I have multiple players on my machine.

[yamatetsu]

I like that layout much more, but now Clint is stretched horizontally! Any chance you could scale him up a bit and keep his proportions?

Umm, the pic was like this the whole time ... The problem is that putting a square picture into a rectangular frame leaves a lot of white space. I don't have the square version of the pic right now, but I used a similar one :



I think the slightly squashed one looks waay better. Also, I just spent about three hours cutting it out for the new panel, sooo ... I think it will stay.

Keep your credit buttons man...lose pause if anything.

plr start and credit for each side.....

unless you plan on using your coin door permanently.

Like this ?



Just ignore the second circle above the P1 joystick, I don't know where that sucker comes from.

[Vigo]

Probably more work, but just a stencil suggestion for the control panel.

[yotsuya]

Bad. Ass. Vigo, Badass.

Though the cracks would probably be impossible to do right.

[rablack97]

Probably more work, but just a stencil suggestion for the control panel.

 

[Vigo]

Thanks, guys! 

[yamatetsu]

Utterly impossible. We're talking cutting cardboard + doubletape. There's no way to do such small cuts on this. The art on the back of the cab was incredibly hard to do, and it is way bigger than this.

This could only be done using a plotter, and that would be cheating 

[Le Chuck]

Then just use a projector, toss it up on the white painted CP and hand paint it.  Should be a snap.  Just use a 00 liner brush or something like that for the detail bits. 

[yamatetsu]

No way. For you, this may be as natural as breathing, for me ... If I were to paint using brushes, it would look like it's been done by a four year old. And in a direct competition, I would favor the four year old.

[Vigo]

Yeah, that would be hard with cardboard, but I guess I assumed that talkgeek was still gonna hook you up with vinyl stencils. I figure it might need some simplification, and the details like the spiderweb cracks would be out, but something along those lines could probably be done by putting vinyl down.

[yamatetsu]

How to put it ? For me using vinyl would be the cheap way out. Anyone can have a machine cut out the art, there's no challenge in that. My way to do it may be stupid, it certainly was very time consuming and frustrating, but the result is also much more satisfying. Showing the sides to a friend and having him ask 'Where did you get that vinyl ?' was really cool.

There is one exception that I will make, namely the marquee. The marquee will be short of 6 inches high, so the art going on there is so small that even if I were able to cut it, it probably would look hideous.

So, sorry, while this is a cool idea, I will stick to the original plan.

[Rick]

How to put it?

Differently. For someone as concerned as you were that you were being otherwise insulted in other sections of this thread, the choice of words following these are not necessarily the best. Everybody recognizes your efforts and talents - there's certainly no need to minimize others who do not share them.

[yamatetsu]

  Huh ? I think there are some serious misunderstandings going on here. I do not feel being insulted at all. I was just annoyed at rablack's constant nagging even after I told him that changing things was impossible.
When I explain to someone why I can't do something and he keeps telling me 'do it' I feel that this is beyond constructive criticism and begin getting annoyed. That's all.

About my talents - I honestly don't feel talented at all. If I come across as arrogantly looking down on people, that is neither the case nor my intention. If anything, I'm looking UP to the amazing things that you people do here. I certainly do not want to belittle others.

In the last post I just wanted to convey the point that up to now I have done things in a certain way and want to do that consistently where I am able to. I just think that this is what makes the cab unique. I did not want to gloat and tell others 'Here's something that I can do and you can't'.

It seems that I have a talent to rub people the wrong way.
So if anyone feels insulted or belittled by me, I apologize sincerely. That was not my intention.

[BGoulette]

I think I understood where you were coming from, but given this thread, I can see how it might have come across as more abrasive than you intended. For me, I got the sense that you didn't necessarily have a problem with vinyl on other peoples' cabs; that is, you wouldn't have considered that "cheating," but since you'd already gone through such trouble with your frog tape and scalpel on everything else, you didn't want to phone it in for the cp. I can relate: there are times when there's a simpler way to do something -- maybe it's even better! -- but because of cost or time investment, I'll forego that and stick with my possibly bizarre method that might cause others to scratch their heads. ;-)

[Rick]

So if anyone feels insulted or belittled by me, I apologize sincerely. That was not my intention.

As Ambassador of the No Art Skills, Vinyl-Sided Bartop Master Race, I humbly accept your apology.

[yamatetsu]

I think I understood where you were coming from, but given this thread, I can see how it might have come across as more abrasive than you intended. For me, I got the sense that you didn't necessarily have a problem with vinyl on other peoples' cabs; that is, you wouldn't have considered that "cheating," but since you'd already gone through such trouble with your frog tape and scalpel on everything else, you didn't want to phone it in for the cp. I can relate: there are times when there's a simpler way to do something -- maybe it's even better! -- but because of cost or time investment, I'll forego that and stick with my possibly bizarre method that might cause others to scratch their heads. ;-)

Nailed it.

So if anyone feels insulted or belittled by me, I apologize sincerely. That was not my intention.

As Ambassador of the No Art Skills, Vinyl-Sided Bartop Master Race, I humbly accept your apology.

Thank you ! 

I see your point now. I don't think vinyl = no art skills. It's just the other way round : I'm doing stencils because I don't have any art skills at all. I just wanted to say that anyone can CUT OUT that art with a machine.

[dkersten]

I get where you are coming from too.  It has to do with craftsmanship.  Some people take pride in their ability to draw on the computer, and to translate that onto a cabinet usually means vinyl.  Some people take pride in their woodworking skills and choose to use a woodgrain finish.  Neither is "better" than the other, just different skills.  But the guy doing the woodgrain finish probably wouldn't feel like he did the cab or his skills justice if he plastered a vinyl sticker on the control panel, especially not after taking the time to achieve a good finish by hand on the sides and edges of the rest of the cab.  This is no different.  Yam's craftsmanship here is mainly his perseverance in doing this "by hand".  And it feels good when someone thinks that your art is good enough to have come from a stencil, not cut by hand.  I agree that using a stencil on the control panel would "cheapen" what he has already achieved. 

[Vigo]

How to put it? 

"A man has got to know his Limitations," and you sir, are much more than talented enough to be using the "beyond my abilities" card. After how meticulously you slaved over the side art, control panel, and BACK ART, it struck me as very odd that you just resorted to a stretched out clint eastwood face, because you needed a way to fill white space. I totally think it is cool you are doing this art 100% by hand, but I am a little surprised you are calling it a dead-end idea; even if you don't like it, I figured it would be enough to inspire you to come up with an art layout that works with the controls, rather than simply filling space.

Here is just a quick simplification of my prior idea. I think this should be closer to doable by hand. 

[yamatetsu]

You, sir, seem to have a higher opinion of me than I do. The sides and the back art may look good, but that was cutting through paper and tape, not a much harder material. For that, you have apply very high pressure while cutting, which doesn't mix well with doing very small cuts.

I did the design prior to any slaving, and the back art wasn't even planned. Yes, I chose the face because it fills the space, but also because even with the buttons and the controls plastered over it, it still is highly recognizable. And, most importantly, I simply like it, even in it's squashed state.

Here is just a quick simplification of my prior idea. I think this should be closer to doable by hand. 

The bullet holes are definitely out. Believe me, these lines cannot be cut out of cardboard.

The stripe that you sneakily added while I wasn't looking looks and fits very well, but. Think of holding a wobbly stripe of cardboard about 24 inches long with an incredibly sticky adhesive on the back over the CP and try to put it down so that is perfectly aligned with the edge of the CP.
Now think of having a Clint in a poncho on the left side of said stripe and try to do that again in one try, otherwise you botch it because you won't get that sticky stuff off.
If you believe you can do that, I congratulate you on your self confidence 
My recent experiences have shown me that I suck badly in this department.

The text in my opinion is kinda redundant, including the face I will have 8 versions of Clint on the cab, plus the text on the marquee. So, I think there are enough hidden hints to get that this is about Clint 

I figured it would be enough to inspire you to come up with an art layout that works with the controls, rather than simply filling space.

Says the man who uses bullet holes to simply fill the space 
Sorry, couldn't resist.

All right, I'll see if I can come up with something, but don't get your hopes up. I'm a bit pessimistic about that.

[Malenko]

totally late to chime in, I didn't want to get involved in the Clyde controversy.


You've done great work, that's not limited just to the the concept, the art, or anything else. Overall it is a great cabinet that you should be VERY VERY proud of. Your attitude about listening to the forums is a refreshing change from what had become the stubborn new member.   I look forward to watching the progress from the shadows. I too was worried about your control panel, but that seems to be under control now too 

[Vigo]

I agree with Malenko, it is really awesome seeing everything that you did, and most new members would be telling us to get off their lawn, with all the input we have injected in.

You are talented, and made some improvements from the suggestions of the experienced people here. I have been enjoying this project since day 1.

As far as your control panel goes, I think all your points are very valid. (Except the too much "clint" issue. There is no such thing as too much clint.)


 I honestly don't think your original CP art looked that bad either. It just sounded like you were not completely happy with it, but didn't know any alternative to the white space problem. By all means, keep your old art is it is what you were envisioning. 

The only thing I am wondering, are you dead-set on cardboard? I think your ability with tape is top-notch. Of course, I am not exactly sure of how the end product looks with cardboard, so I'm not trying to say it is worse.

I have done frogtape for striping on cabs, and kinda figured it is the easiest thing to do, that is why I sneakily added it in.  If I were to try to tackle my cp design by hand, this would be my process.

1) With moves like Jagger, I would start by painting it black.
2) For the stripe, one strip of frogtape across.
3) For the bullet holes, I would grab some circular stickers, like for yard sales. Plant those around. Then Take some scissors and cut little slivers of frogtape, and place them coming out of the holes in jagged lightning shapes to make crack lines.
4) Paint it white. Remove the tape. The line and bullet holes should be done.
5) Since I am not a tape guru, I would probably Make a linocut of Clint and stamp him on after everything has dried.

Whatever you do, I will still be enjoying this thread and your project. 

[yamatetsu]

The cardboard is a necessity, not something I chose voluntarily. The CP consists of 12mm MDF, 2 layers of 2mm lexan, the art and then 1 layer of 2mm lexan. Without the art I am at 18mm, the maximum height for the trackball is 19mm.
So, for the bottom layer of the art I needed something sturdy yet thin that covers the mounting-plate-sized joystick holes without sagging. The art itself gave me a size problem. I can't print anything that big, cardboard comes in big sheets, so ...

I have tried using thick black paper and doubletape, cutting it was relatively easy, but trying to put that wobbly stuff onto the white cardboard ... That went south in a hurry.

I am not exactly sure of how the end product looks with cardboard, so I'm not trying to say it is worse.

It actually looks better than the paint. No paint bleeding and the cuts are crisp and clean. It's a bit like comparing bitmaps to vectors. From afar, both look good, but when you look closer you see that the painted lines are jagged where the tape took too much paint off. The cardboard cuts stay sharp from every viewing distance (unless you use a microscope, but that would be taking things a bit too far).

[yamatetsu]

A humble offering to the Scourage of Carpathia.



I put a test strip of frogtape on the cardboard. While it can be removed, it will probably take some cardboard with it. Just in some spots, but it becomes noticable. I have painted the bottom layer cardboard white in hopes of being able to remove the tape from the paint without issues. After a little while it started warping. I hope this will get ironed out by the top layer of lexan pressing on it, otherwise I'm out of luck.

[Le Chuck]

Reverse your stencil (cover black painting white) on the reverse of the lexan, pop the tape and coat the whole thing in a layer of black.  Right on the plastic.   

[yamatetsu]

Uuh, I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. I gather that you would do the art on the back of the lexan that is on top, eliminating the cardboard. To do this, I would mirror the stencils, put them on the back of the lexan, paint the remainder white, pull off the stencils and paint the transparent areas black. Correct ?

[Vigo]

That design is looking darn good though. I like your bullet hole design solution, and Harry on the left is especially awesome looking.   

I will continue to enjoy this thread and try not to light any more fires. 

[yamatetsu]

Hmm, so it's probably a bad time to mention that those bullet holes are just placeholders ... I don't think that I can cut them out. I plan on using a big drill to make real holes, push the jagged edges outwards and perhaps accentuate them with pencil graphite. We'll see how that plays out.

The Clints are small enough to be printed on stickers, which will make them a bit easier to cut out. The only problem left would be the stripes, which won't work on the cardboard. Those, however, I could do on the lexan, as LeChuck suggested.
So there is hope yet 

To pass the time, I amused myself with redoing the speaker covers. Here is the final version.

[Vigo]

Whaaa? You are getting crazy with this!  I am looking forward to seeing how your real holes work out.

[dkersten]

Uuh, I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. I gather that you would do the art on the back of the lexan that is on top, eliminating the cardboard. To do this, I would mirror the stencils, put them on the back of the lexan, paint the remainder white, pull off the stencils and paint the transparent areas black. Correct ?

Or, maybe, if you want to keep a similar effect to the cardboard technique and don't want to lose the thickness the cardboard added, place a full sheet of black painted cardboard behind that painted plexi. 

[yamatetsu]

Whaaa? You are getting crazy with this!  I am looking forward to seeing how your real holes work out.

See ? That's what you get when you put ideas into my head. I just wanted to do a simple face, but noo ...
 

Or, maybe, if you want to keep a similar effect to the cardboard technique and don't want to lose the thickness the cardboard added, place a full sheet of black painted cardboard behind that painted plexi. 

My post above seems to be a bit unclear. First of all, the cardboard is crafting cardboard, which comes in various colors, so no need to paint it to get back color. In fact, painting it would make it warp, that's why I can't do the stripes on it.
I will use white cardboard as the bottom layer. The Clints will be printed on stickers, cut out and placed on the bottom layer. Then I will drill the bullet holes into the cardboard. The stripes I will paint on the back of the lexan. If I manage to place everything right, I will get the full picture when I put the lexan on the cardboard.

[yamatetsu]

The control panel.

Good news and very bad news.

I went to the craft store to get some white cardboard and found that they had white photo cardboard. This is like thicker photo paper, but comes in bigger sheets. I thought that I probably would be able to remove the frogger tape without ripping anything up, so I bought a sheet.
I taped the stripes and painted them. While removing the tape I got the first hiccup : The tape went off nicely, but it separated the photo film from the cardboard. While I was able to press it back on, it now is dull instead of glossy.
Not a big problem, but you can see it if you look for it.

I cut out the stickers and painted them black.



Check the small details :





I managed to get the stickers on without damaging them.



Hiccup number two : Don't keep two versions of your art that only differ slightly. I managed to print the Clint on the right a bit too big, hence he is now a staunch supporter of button #6.

Some zooms :





And finally some zooms of two of the bullet holes :





These were done using a small drill that I kept moving against the edges while drilling.

So, what's the bad news ?

I can't put the top layer of lexan on. If the lexan gets pressed down, the photo film clings to it and leaves a sort of 'wet' print at that area. Since the player's hands will definitely press it down very much, there's no chance for the lexan.

I will probably have to experiment with clear lacquer to coat it with that and hope that a) this is enough to protect it or b) I am able to put the lexan on the lacquer.
The problem is that rolling the lacquer on will probably cause warping, and I suck really bad at spraypainting, especially doing big areas.

[PL1]

I think Yotsuya provides a solution in this thread.

Hit your marquee with a clear matte finish spray that you can get from any craft store. That's what I do, and it gets rid of that "wet" look.

Scott

[yotsuya]

I think Yotsuya provides a solution in this thread.

Hit your marquee with a clear matte finish spray that you can get from any craft store. That's what I do, and it gets rid of that "wet" look.

Scott

Yep. Anything glossy that goes under plexiglas or glass gets hit with a light coat of that. Works wonders.