BYOAC's talking dead: The Walking Dead Season 4 (Second half)

[ark_ader]

Two awesome episodes.  Looks like Glenn is waking up to a world of hurt...

[Howard_Casto]

Man I feel like I'm in a abusive relationship with this show.  It beats me down with it's crappiness and then it has those shining moments of awesome that make me think it could change and stop beating me.

Rick's whole bedroom adventure was pure awesome.  Words just can't describe so I won't bother.  Man those bikers must be real morons to just squat in a house without checking it out first though.

Carl and Michone's segment was pretty meh... nothing to complain about but not exactly anything interesting or unexpected going on either. 

But Glen and the new guys... their segments are just horrible.  I mean I read the comics, I know that this trio is a bit... ahem... extreme, but it's like they dropped three cartoon characters in the middle of a drama.  Professor white trash Eugene looks like he's hitting the Grecian formula a little too hard, Abraham must have got rejected from clown college with that red hair and Rosita..... well first off DAMN!  But from a more realistic standpoint, why is she clean, well nourished, has flawless skin, flawless clothing and pretty much unaffected by a year and a half of zombie land?

But the real problem is the dialog.  The acting is ok, but how can you make anything sound believable when you have to spew out garbage like that?  Some of the one-liners are taken directly from the comics and this is decidedly a bad thing.  I mean they are comics... not shakesphere.  Sometimes things that sound reasonable on paper are utterly ridiculous when uttered out loud.  I think this is the case here. 

Of course the big elephant in the room is Eugene and the deviations in the plot from the comics that makes his story even more ridiculous this time around. 

I mean they went to the CDC in season 1, the foremost global authority on disease control and the guy there basically said anyone that was smart enough to know anything about the disease was already dead, there was no cure, everyone was infected and they are essentially ---fouled up beyond all recognition---.  So this guy comes along and states that he's some sort of expert and knows how to fix it?  Ok let's give him the benefit of the doubt... except....... dat mullet.  Government workers don't have mullets.  Scientists don't have mullets.  He's obviously not a scientist!  It was stupid in the comics but in live action it's utterly ridiculous.  Even if we were to assume that he grew his hair out during the apocalypse, can you honestly tell me that a arrogant ---tallywhacker--- like that is going to intentionally choose a haircut that makes him look like a moron when he's spouting things like "I'm smarter than you"?

Their appearance is pure fan-service for the comic geeks at this point, which would be ok if most of the people that watch the show have also read the comics, but this isn't the case.

Also a minor nit-pick but something I noticed when I was waiting for this episode to start.  At the prison, they've distressed the fence to make it look rusty.  For the most part this is realistic, but they got it wrong as per usual.  The tension bars and linkage hardware was rusted almost completely over in the "cage" scenes.  Anyone who's been around chain link fencing knows that these are the few parts of a fence that almost never rust.  They are hot-dipped to prevent rusting and have this thick, nasty coating.  Either that or they are dipped in grease/oil depending upon the manufacturer.  My grandma has had a chain-link fence around her property for over 30 years.  While occasionally you'll get some minor rusting on the top-rails and if there has been heat damage, some on the fence itself.  The tension bars never rust though and the linkages have minor rusting (from scratches) at best.  The whole point of these fences is that they are virtually maintenance free... thus why they are a popular choice for prisons.  I mean maybe, just maybe, if you got the cheapest grade of fence imaginable you might run into that sort of rusting.  (Does Big Lots make fencing?)  In a prison though... nah you wouldn't see that.

Is this a huge deal?  Certainly not, this was a very minor mistake, but anyone with a fence that pays the least bit of attention is going to see that and go "that's a fake fence" and it takes you out of the story a little.  This is the kind of things I've been talking about all along.  If the premise of your show is as ridiculous as the dead walking the earth, all the mundane things in the world have to be as spot-on as humanly possible... or else you'll become detached from it.

[DaOld Man]

I see your points Howard, and though I have not read the comics so I don't know what is going to happen (or what could happen), but the appearance of Eugene just kinda made me think "this guy is a scientist? Yeah right. More like a clown posing as a scientist." Makes me wonder what the real scoop on this guy is.

I didn't notice the fence, but I suppose zombie blood could be reacting to it? (Daryl said earlier that the blood on the plant wasn't walker blood. How did he know?) But why even go there? Why take the extra time to make the fence rusty? Or maybe they just dug some old fence up from a junk yard to save money?

One other thing that I thought was not quite right.

The zombies coming out of that corn field just wasn't right. The corn was brown and no doubt past the age of usefulness, but it looked like it had been standing a couple months past harvest, not a year and a half. The weather and seasons around Atlanta are pretty close to what they are here in Kentucky. Changing. The field of corn would have looked a lot worse due to extreme weather changes, hot days, cold days, excessive rain, even high winds and hail would have flattened most of the corn stalks. Not counting mold and animals tracking around in the field looking for shelter and food. I just don't think the field would have looked so pristine after a year and a half of being left to nature.

But IMHO, this show is good. I try not to dwell on the little background mistakes and just remind myself that it is just a show.
And as long as the writers are listening to us, and don't do crazy off topic crap (Governor walking alone episode), then they will have me as a fan.

[Howard_Casto]

Really any corn should be gone at this point if you think about it.  Most corn crops can't reproduce on their own, they are sterile so you have to replant each season.  It's been 1 and a half years since the apocalypse. 

In regards to the rust, it wasn't even a natural rust... the entire bar was a solid rust color.  If it wasn't in hd I'd think they painted it brown.  So some idgit on the sfx staff has took a torch or something to it to rust it out.  But why do that and leave the rest of the fence almost new looking?  I mean unless the sfx guys really screwed up, I got the impression that it was supposed to be a relatively new prison.  Why age anything beyond the level of making it look abandoned?

That's what annoys me.  They seem to go to great effort on this show to add little touches and always miss the mark, running all the effort. 

They are more concerned with getting a good shot than thinking things through. 

It just brings me back to Dale's death every time.... so much physical impossibility in that scene.  I could have ignored it if it was a quick shot so it wasn't dwelled upon but they drew it out so long and they made such a point earlier to show how weak that particular zombie was. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Rick under the bed....I didn't expect this segment and was surprised how intense it was. True Detective was a bit slower last night, so I was shocked to see The Walking Dead be more exciting for once.

(If you aren't watching True Detective, you should be. It's only eight episodes long and they just aired episode six. Amazing mini-series!)

[Drnick]

Rick under the bed....I didn't expect this segment and was surprised how intense it was. True Detective was a bit slower last night, so I was shocked to see The Walking Dead be more exciting for once.

(If you aren't watching True Detective, you should be. It's only eight episodes long and they just aired episode six. Amazing mini-series!)

Gotta agree with Ginsu on this, Well worth a watch, You have to pay some attention to it, but I think it's worth investing the time. If you could ever call watching TV investing time 

[Howard_Casto]

Hey now!  Everything worth learning I learned via Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, Star Trek and The Waltons.... oh and Andy Griffith.......  Some days you just get a goat with dynamite. 

[DaOld Man]

Good episode. But for a girl who never drank before, she held her moonshine pretty good. Must have been watered down moonshine.

[Howard_Casto]

I have about the same sentiment, good episode, but she weighs what 90 lbs?  And she drank at least a glass.

[Nephasth]

I thought it was a terrible episode...

[Howard_Casto]

I thought it was a terrible episode...

What didn't you like?  I've got to be honest, at the start I thought it was going to be pretty run of the mill, but towards the end where Darryl breaks down and stuff, that kind of made it for me. 

[Nephasth]

Just seemed like a pointless character development episode for an already well developed character. As for her, just like she said, she'll be gone soon... So what was the whole episode about? A booze run.

[Mr_Numbers]

+1 to filler episode.

[eds1275]

She handled that moonshine better than I did. And the whole build up to what Darryl was before the zombie thing? Build up to what everyone already guessed. I thought that the episode was just filler. It had some moments but was more like a slumber party gone wrong with a bunch of girls just crying and hugging.

[jdbailey1206]

Meh.  I gotta agree.  It was a good filler episode.  It did its job to show the 'growth' of each character.  Could this have been done in 5 minutes?  Most definitely. 

[yotsuya]

Never seen an episode.

I have some limited run comics, though. Anyone want them?

[Nephasth]

Never seen an episode.

I have some limited run comics, though. Anyone want them?

How much? Dmen's a comic guy.

[yotsuya]

Never seen an episode.

I have some limited run comics, though. Anyone want them?

How much? Dmen's a comic guy.

PM me, bro. I'll email you some photos. I have some rare alternative covers I got at a Comicon.

[Ginsu Victim]

Conversation at work today:
"Man, did you see what happened on Walking Dead?"
"Huh? Nothing happened."
"Oh, good, so it's not just me."

[Howard_Casto]

Sometimes I get the feeling you guys are watching the show for the wrong reasons. 

The reason it was a good episode was the last five minutes.  If you guys thought the revelation was that he was a shifty guy before the apocalypse boy did you miss the point.  The revelation was that he blamed himself for the events of the prison.  Every indication prior to this was that he had simply given up while in reality he was just incredibly guilty.  It's all about the feelings guys. 

Well at least it is when they focus on a character people actually care about portrayed by an actor that has some actual acting ability.

[DaOld Man]

I agree Howard, and I thought the burning down of the shack was a release for both Beth and Darryl.
However I did think they stole the idea from Forrest Gump (where Jenny threw rocks at her old house, where she was molested by her dad, and later Forrest bought it and tore it down.)
It was a symbol of releasing oneself from the past.

But I hope the writers don't decide to do this very often, because it is threading close to chick flick territory.

And the fact that Beth held her liquor so well, being it was her first drink and moonshine is usually very potent, kind of killed it for me. I wish they had just held back on her drinking it. However, there were hints that this was not really her first drink. She knew the drinking game and she said she used to watch her friends play it. Yeah right.

[Nephasth]

Sometimes I get the feeling you guys are watching the show for the wrong reasons. 

I watch any show to be entertained. The Walking Dead is doing that less and less for me. I'm glad Vikings is back on, True Detective is about to wrap up, and Game of Thrones will be back soon...

[ChadTower]

Burning a symbol of the past isn't something stolen from Forrest Gump.  It's a literary device that has been used thousands of times for centuries.  It's such a common device it's pretty much a cliche and I'm surprised they bothered to use it. 

I figured as soon as the little blonde got drunk she was going to start listing off other things she has never done and be all over Darryl.  She never actually got drunk, though, despite weighing about 80lb and drinking hard moonshine.  Not exactly great writing there.  She should have been lying on the floor in a puddle of puke within an hour.

[Ginsu Victim]

Sometimes I get the feeling you guys are watching the show for the wrong reasons.

Not at all. I'm there for the character development, I just didn't think they did enough with that episode.

[ChadTower]

They should be using more isolated closeups of eyes and noses.  There is not nearly enough of that in the last couple of episodes.

[Howard_Casto]

Sometimes I get the feeling you guys are watching the show for the wrong reasons.

Not at all. I'm there for the character development, I just didn't think they did enough with that episode.

Well we had 20-30 seconds of character development for Darryl.... unfortunately, for the scene to be effective it needed an hour of buildup.  That's the way it is sometimes, it can't be helped. 

All of the episodes thus far have been filler, so I can't seem to get why you guys disliked this one so much.  The only difference in this one and the others is there was less action.  Don't get me wrong, Rick's little bedroom adventure has been the best episode thus far by a huge margin, but this one isn't bad by any stretch... it just wasn't as good.

I mean the overall arc for this last half is botched anyway, like it has been for every single season thus far.  So we might as well be in it for the little gems.  I mean are we going to have to deal with the gang getting separated at the half season and spend 90% of the second half re-uniting every single time?

[ChadTower]

It looks to me like the whole thing is building up to Rick and Carl reuniting with Judith.

(I don't read the comics.)

[Ginsu Victim]

It looks to me like the whole thing is building up to Rick and Carl reuniting with Judith.

(I don't read the comics.)

That's nothing like the comic.
COMIC SPOILER because in the comic, Judith dies at the final prison battle along with Lori.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah what he spoiled

Honestly I'm hoping part of the climax is that she ends up zombie chow because she just doesn't fit into the world at this point.  It was a mistake and a cop-out to keep her alive after the prison arc.

[Ginsu Victim]

Nice to see the show go as hardcore as the comic. Too bad they stole that defining moment from Carl.

[eds1275]

I hate Carl. I wish it was him at the other end of Carol's gun. Or if he died of dehydration, caused by diarrhea brought on by the pudding.

[Howard_Casto]

Eh Carl's fine now.  Now if you had asked me that at season 2....  I think the problem is I can't stand child actors.  Now if they can just get rid of the baby.

I guess this episode was supposed to be all emotional and stuff but I didn't care for it.  It wasn't really a shock....  been waiting for this to happen for over a season now.  I couldn't stand either one of the kids either or their arcs so good riddance I say.  I mean talking dead comes on afterwards and they were all weeping and stuff.  I laughed out loud.  I don't care if they are kids... without significant character development I can't be made to care. 

And Carol's secret is out of the bag, so that's a good thing.  I was afraid they would drag it out forever like they tend to do on this show and quite frankly we all knew Tyreese wasn't going to do anything since they've turned him into a giant ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?---.

**Edit**

Just for the record are Carol and Tyreese the stupidest people on the planet?  They left that baby un-attended for like 80% of the episode.  Also little miss psycho looks at them both dead pan and says "Now I know what I have to do."  and they don't see anything wrong with that?  I know in Kirkman's universe doesn't have zombie movies, but do they have ANY movies?  Because that's the line the lunatic always uses before they go a slaughter a bunch of people.

I sware it's "where's Carl?"  all over again.

[ark_ader]

I  think you will find that it is Carol who is the psychopath.  Leaving the kids alone at any time is bad judgement, the same where she let those two teenagers (the girl with the bad foot) loose to find food, and they ended up dead.

Actually pretty much everyone in that show should have severe mental problems by now.   

[DaOld Man]

I liked the last episode, however at first I was beginning to think they were going to keep developing the characters until it self-imploded.
I agree with ark, I think Carol is definitely a few bricks shy of a load. You got to remember that she was abused by her husband, lost her daughter, and then the little girl was reminding her of her daughter, and she lost her.
But in a world like that the only way to survive would be to loose any hope of sanity because it aint gonna last long anyway.
I think Tyreese handled the news pretty good, but he kinda looks like he could loose it at any moment too, so it may not be over yet.
Who do you think will be the next to die? Im thinking Beth.

[Howard_Casto]

Carol isn't particularly crazy, she's just a little bit evil.  She's fully aware of what she does and doesn't care or at least doesn't care enough to think what she does isn't justified.  Much more scary imho.  She's slowly becoming the new Shane.

No Maggie, Glenn and a few of the others seem to be pretty sound mentally and morally.  It's only the weak minded/hearted that fall apart. 

Beth's days are numbered, but so are Carols.... she's almost at full resolution in terms of her arc and whenever that happens they kill em off.  It's a toss-up really.  Then again drunky is the new T-dogg and there are only a few episodes left.... so we could just get another death of someone we don't really know/care about.

[Vigo]

No idea what is up with these hardened characters having a very false sense of security. Tyreese and Carol are both to blame for constantly leaving the girls alone. The earlier episode with Darryl opening the door of zombies, thinking it was a dog again. 

With Lizzie killing her sister, I was not making the connection that turned her from crazy zombie lover all the way to murdeer simply because she doesn't "get it". She was desperately trying to save her sister from zombies just a few scenes ago when stuck at the fence.

Carol isn't particularly crazy, she's just a little bit evil.  She's fully aware of what she does and doesn't care or at least doesn't care enough to think what she does isn't justified.  Much more scary imho.  She's slowly becoming the new Shane.

I agree. The whole decision to blow Lizzie's brains out simply because they were "worried about the baby" thing was not convincing to me. If a butcher like Carol and a tank like Tyreese can't protect a baby from a little girl, then something is way off. They can tie lizzie's hands together and problem solved. Carol was able to justify 3 murders to Tyreese, so I am guessing it will only be easier for her down the road. Makes me wonder if Carol will not return the baby to Rick because of what he did to her.

[Howard_Casto]

Lizzie was a psychopath, she would have been even without the zombie apocalypse.  Prior to this she had not only been feeding zombies, but multiple times she murdered and dissected baby rabbits for fun.  She also about smothered Judith to death just a couple of episodes back.  That's why I said I'm glad it was over and have been expecting this for over a year now. 

I don't think they were worried about the baby at all, but what would you do in such a situation?  It isn't like they can drop her at the nearest looney bin.  It's one of the few times I've actually agreed with her actions... that kid was koo koo for co co puffs and that's no way to live in the world they are in.  Carol's evil comes in when she won't let the kids call her mom, or when the one little girl says that she won't kill people and she jumps all over her... stuff like that. 

Living is more important than surviving.  If you are willing to do anything to survive then you are already dead.

[Ginsu Victim]

Yep, Lizzie was too much of a risk to have around.  There was no alternative....not in that world.

I told my wife they should just lock her and her soon-to-be-a-zombie sister in the same room together.  It would have worked itself out.

[Vigo]

Lizzie just randomly killing her sister one afternoon while sitting on the lawn is totally out of place. Something might have triggered her, but they failed to show it. I don't think that she was really smothering Judith the other episode, if they were trying to show that, they did it wrong because you could distinctly hear Judith inhale consistently to cry more.

Carol had a lot of decisions, and just blowing the girls brains out was an evil one. They can very well keep her tied up, or maybe even showing her sister dead might snap her out of it all. As far as they know, they only have to make it to Terminus until other people will be available to help deal with her. If Carol had to exact justice, how about banish her? If Lizzie doesn't see the threat of the zombies, then she won't be scared of them. Getting bit is what she wanted anyway.

The point I was making is that Carol is probably not worried about the baby at all, but it is exactly what she was using for justification of her actions. It is completely the Shane mindset. Kill somebody, and grasp on to some reason to justify it. The greater good. It is exactly what Rick saw in Carol when banishing her. Not letting the kids call her mom is not evil. She has her own personal baggage for not letting herself become to motherly of the girls.

[Ginsu Victim]

Lizzie just randomly killing her sister one afternoon while sitting on the lawn is totally out of place.

It wasn't random. She was out to prove a point the only way that crazy little ---smurfette--- knew how.