BYOAC's talking dead: The Walking Dead Season 4 (Second half)

[Rick]

One thing I'm disappointed in is the fact that it's just episode 2 and they are already introducing a "conspiracy secret character" plot line.

I'm calling it: it's Herschel's daughter. She bonked 'em on the head, and then, ran 'em outside to burn 'em.

[Howard_Casto]

Well that makes no logical sense, but considering the show it's probably her. 

The logic flaws are already starting to flood in I'm afraid.  I know they are complacent right now, but the one good thing about living in a prison is that every room has a locking door.  Considering you are living in a world with mad-max-style bandits and flesh eating zombies roaming the earth why wouldn't you at least shut your door at night?  You wouldn't even have to lock it... zombies can't open locks so a bit of wire wrapped around to hold it shut would be enough.   

Also on talking dead one of the commenters made a good point and you could tell by Nicataro's face that the thought had never occurred to him.  (Which is a bad sign, dumb guys shouldn't be directors).  Hershel was a vet, as soon as the pigs started getting ill wouldn't he have looked in on them?  Unlike the people, Rick mentions that the one pig had been sick for a while.

[Rick]

Well that makes no logical sense, but considering the show it's probably her. 

I'm using the same TV logic I see on The Biggest Loser every week. "Oh look, we're focusing on rounding out this character this week. Hello, you're going home."

[Mikezilla]

Well, to Nicoteros credit, he isnt a writer, show runner etc, but yeah, I said that already regarding last weeks episode about the pig and the vet stuff.

What concerns me is how much Tyrese sucks. 

[shponglefan]

Eh, I was underwhelmed by episode 2.  It was one of those "the audience already knows everything that is happening, so we're just watching characters go through the motions"-type episodes. 

And the mystery pyro just harkens back to Season 2 (when the escaped prisoner mysteriously lets walkers into the prison)... I find myself not the least bit compelled to learn their identity.

^ And I agree, Tyreese does suck.  Not at all the same badass character, but I still hold out hope they'll fix him...

[Howard_Casto]

Well, to Nicoteros credit, he isnt a writer, show runner etc, but yeah, I said that already regarding last weeks episode about the pig and the vet stuff.

What concerns me is how much Tyrese sucks. 

No he's an executive producer as of last season and he directed the first episode this season.  He is a very talented special effects artist and he should stick to that.  SFX guys traditionally make bad directors/producers because they are mostly concerned with showing off some effect instead of progressing the story in a compelling manner.  Just as an example 20 seconds could have been cut from the "raining zombies" sequence to have a shot of Hershel examining the pig and saying something like "I'm not sure, without equipment, but it looks like some sort of flu.  I'll see if I can scrounge up some anti-biotics." There, plot-hole filled and it doesn't take much effort. 

It looks like Tyreese is the next character to get the "Andrea" treatment.  They are sucking all of the bad-ass out of the character.  Here's hoping we don't have him making dumb decisions and sleeping with the bad guy each season as well. 

[CCM]

One thing I'm disappointed in is the fact that it's just episode 2 and they are already introducing a "conspiracy secret character" plot line.  We don't need that.  Problems with keeping the zombies off the fence and this upcoming pandemic are more than enough to keep the show interesting and I can't think of any logical reason why someone inside the camp would want to sabotage themselves. 
 

My guess is that the young girl is the one feeding them (I don't remember her name).   She feels bad for them and in the first episode Carl tells her not to name them or treat them as pets.  So, I don't think it's sabotage, it's just a dumb kid.   Then again, I could be totally wrong.

[Vigo]

One thing I'm disappointed in is the fact that it's just episode 2 and they are already introducing a "conspiracy secret character" plot line.  We don't need that.  Problems with keeping the zombies off the fence and this upcoming pandemic are more than enough to keep the show interesting and I can't think of any logical reason why someone inside the camp would want to sabotage themselves. 
 

My guess is that the young girl is the one feeding them (I don't remember her name).   She feels bad for them and in the first episode Carl tells her not to name them or treat them as pets.  So, I don't think it's sabotage, it's just a dumb kid.   Then again, I could be totally wrong.

I agree with you about that. I think the kid was feeding the zombie as a pet, most likely luring them all in.

The other possible sabotage point is the torching at the end of the episode, but right now, I think that was self inflicted. My theory is the lady probably got bit by that guy that was reported as coughing. He probably died, turned, and attacked her. She probably killed him, but only after getting bit, so she dragged him outside and torched herself and the dead walker together in order to keep the everyone safe.

[jdbailey1206]

I don't think that anyone is trying to sabotage the prison itself.  What I think has happened is that Lizzie (the girl seen in 04:01 'Thirty Days Without Incident) is feeding the walkers.  She inadvertingly doesn't realize that it is doing more harm than good and it ends up biting the prison in the ass.  I believe this is why she can't kill her father when he is going to become a zombie.  She feels compassion for the undead. 

Now I may be going out on a limb with this next part but I think it would be interesting if they bring Thomas Richards into the fold.  He is from the comics and his bio can be read here.  It is probably unlikely and it was just someone that was afraid of the virus who burned the bodies at the end but I believe it would create a good sub plot to the story.  I guess we'll see in the coming episodes.

[ChadTower]

Herschel didn't know the pigs were sick.  He showed surprise when Rick told him.  It's not much of a stretch to think that Rick is keeping people away from his little operation so he can have his alone time.  Nobody is helping because he doesn't want the help.  And look at the crops.  He's not producing enough food to feed those people.  Those crops looked as sick as everything else.  I think everybody (except Carl and Michonne) is giving Rick his space and talking to him when he comes back to where the people are.  I don't want to assume that Rick is much better than he was at the end of Season 2.  That was the whole point of episode 1.  Did he really get to come back or is he just isolated from the things that trigger his visions?

[Vigo]

I'd agree with you, except they show that scene where Hershel is showing Rick how to tend to plants, and the other scene where Hershel was talking like Rick was his farming protege, the one where he told Rick he needs to grow a "farmer's ass". You'd think at some point Rick would casually mention a pig near death, especially when they are 10 feet away from the pen.   

[ChadTower]

I'd agree with you, except they show that scene where Hershel is showing Rick how to tend to plants, and the other scene where Hershel was talking like Rick was his farming protege, the one where he told Rick he needs to grow a "farmer's ass". You'd think at some point Rick would casually mention a pig near death, especially when they are 10 feet away from the pen.   

Well, they're also skipping around in time a lot, so it's hard to tell how much time passes from one scene to the next.  Maybe Herschel is helping Rick in Rick's visions?  Heh.  We do know that Rick didn't do anything at all to help the sick pig.  The only thing that makes any sense is that Rick isn't so much farming as he's just being kept busy or is keeping himself busy and the farm isn't any good because he's not well.

[jdbailey1206]

HI DR. CAROL!!!

[shponglefan]

^ Heh.

I think I'm a little bored with this season so far.  There's not much new going on other than the threat of disease... which isn't that interesting a storyline, imho.  And it looks like they tried to play ode to the "What kept you?" bit from the comics with Tyreese surrounded by walkers, left for dead, but re-emerging unscathed.  But the show's version was far more... bland.

The real issue is the lack of an interesting villain.  The Governor made last season worth watching.  This season, there is nobody like that to keep things compelling.  Even Carol's revelation wasn't overly dramatic, as she was just doing what needed to be done out of necessity, not megalomania.

[Howard_Casto]

No he didn't.  He made the season barely viewable because he made all the other characters, particularly Andrea (who thankfully is now dead) look like morons. 

Don't get me wrong towards the end he was fun to watch because he was outed, but the whole first half of last season he might as well have been twirling his mustache and laughing maniacally he was so stereotypically evil and yet nobody seemed to notice. 

The disease angle is a far more realistic and interesting storyline.  Don't worry though it's going to be resolved one way or another within the next episode or so.  They've only got 24 hours and I'm pretty sure Glen isn't going to die yet, so there you go.  Of course Tyreese will soon become "Shane Jr." over the totally rational disposal of those bodies.  So it'll be another one of those annoyingly long, drawn out pissing matches. 

The next arc will involve a certain scientist pretender and maybe later on Jesus.  That's what the radio signal was all about. 

[jdbailey1206]

I find the threat of internal strife more compelling than some dude with a couple of guys making idle threats at me from outside of a fortress where I live and kidnapping my people.  That is fixable.  A simple right and wrong that can be remedied.  Internal strife shows more of a human connection with the characters.  Not just good vs evil.

Tyreese didn't bother me until Sundays episode though.  I can understand if someone burnt my girl just for having signs of a cold.  Okay.  I understand your grief.  But if my sister came down with the same illness I think I would get ---my bottom--- in a car as fast as I could to go get medicine with an army officer, a samurai sword wielding chick and a dude that handles a crossbow with deadly accuracy to go and get her medication.  Not just sit and pout when my car ran into a horde of zombies.  You are only doing harm to yourself and those around you.  Then once I had the medication that could save my sister then I would go on a sadistic rampage to try and figure out who harmed my girl. 

My other problem is they are not doing a very good job of portraying Beth as a strong woman trying to hold her own.  Maybe it's just Emily Kinney's poor acting skills.  They need to portray her as being strong in one scene then showing her breaking down by herself in a scene later on but knowing that she has to pull herself together for everyone.  This 'I'm not gonna cry' crap is getting on my nerves. 

I will say this in the end.  No matter what way they go I hope they don't end up treating the show like the comics where it's just a lot of waiting for 5 minutes of action in every other episode.  That gets annoying.  Like 'Where is Carl?' annoying.   

[Howard_Casto]

I don't understand your points at all.  If by "internal strife" you mean the whole upcoming Tyreese  vs Rick thing, that is predictable, played out and absolutely won't be done well.  How do I know?  Well have you seen any of the previous seasons?

I think Tyreese understood in that car after seeing the thousands upon thousands of zombies in their path that their chance of getting to the meds and back in time was slim to none.  It made perfect sense to me for him to hesitate.  On the other hand the fact that he got out of that swarm un-scathed is ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.  It's one thing to out fight a fixed number of zombies in an enclosed space (the thing that happened in the comics) but getting away from an unlimited amount of zombies seems a bit much. 

So Beth's a p**** for getting a little sad over the fact that her father might die?  Yeah she's just so weak.  Seriously you can't tell the difference between the love for a mere boyfriend (which going by that scene in the first episode, she didn't really care that much for anyway) and your own flesh and blood?

[shponglefan]

No he didn't.  He made the season barely viewable because he made all the other characters, particularly Andrea (who thankfully is now dead) look like morons. 

Don't get me wrong towards the end he was fun to watch because he was outed, but the whole first half of last season he might as well have been twirling his mustache and laughing maniacally he was so stereotypically evil and yet nobody seemed to notice. 

Yes, he did.  His portrayal in the early half of the season is not unlike many real-world leaders; charismatic on the outside, but capable of doing evil things in secret.  In the latter half of the season is when he became more stereotypically twisted and psychotic.

The next arc will involve a certain scientist pretender and maybe later on Jesus.  That's what the radio signal was all about.

Given how much the show deviates so much from the comics I've given up trying to predict things.

[Howard_Casto]

Don't you mean real world dictators?  Because again, it was so blatantly obvious that he was evil it wasn't even funny.  I'm not even talking about given everything we as the viewer were privy to.... I mean just the stuff the characters interacting with him knew about him. 

[Mikezilla]

ok so I missed last weeks episode becaue my DVR screwed up, so I watched both episodes back to back last night. The thing with Carol wasnt that suprising to me. It shows the evolution of the character, but Rick kind of contradicts himself by saying there is power in numbers, than ousting her.

Tyrese is straight up pissing me off, I want him dead now. He escalated to the new Andrea at ludicrous speed. The way he pouts in the car, not letting go of the walker trying to bite his face off, the fist fight with Rick, over what? A chick he knew for how long? Big freaking deal, and she of course had the disease. The disease thing to me also seems kind of weak, as shpong said, its just kind of boring. Like it could be avoided if you keep yourself isolated most of the time. It obviously isnt some enfluenza type disease either, you get killed in a matter of what, a couple days? Its worse than ebola. 

They already casted Abraham, so it will most likely be him. They will probably drag out Jesus/Negan next season. So far, this season is pretty boring. Everyone is to the point where I dont even care, except Rick and Daryl. 

[shponglefan]

Don't you mean real world dictators?  Because again, it was so blatantly obvious that he was evil it wasn't even funny.  I'm not even talking about given everything we as the viewer were privy to.... I mean just the stuff the characters interacting with him knew about him.

Not dictators.  More like a cult/religious/etc. type leader.

[shponglefan]

Tyrese is straight up pissing me off, I want him dead now.

Tyreese does get a bit emotional/irrational in the comics, but they've really elevated that to the point they are beating us over the head with it.  I can only assume they will temper his character over the course of this season.

[Howard_Casto]

Again, shponglefan, that just isn't the case.  The governor on the show was blatantly evil to the point of where he was creepy to listen to.  There wasn't an ounce of charisma or leadership ability in the guy, it's just due to poor writing, everyone around him acted like he had those qualities. 

Tyreese doesn't bother me one bit.  I need some sort of character development to be invested in a character and quite frankly, in both the comics and on the show, he's a throw-away antagonist that acts as filler between the major arcs.  Don't worry, he'll be gone soon. 

How does Rick contradict himself by saying there is power in numbers and then banish her?  His actions kind of confirm that point.  There aren't a handful in the prison at this point... it's around 70 people.  The original group is in the minority. 

Making her leave, even though it won't be a popular decision is one of the smartest moves he's done in a while.  Look back to Shane... that's how his evil started....  doing horrible things and justifying them as necessary for survival. 

I would also like to point out that nobody I know, nor did the panel on talking dead, address the elephant in the room.  Her killing those people early makes no logical sense... it doesn't hinder the spread of disease one bit.  First off, most illnesses are in their contagious phase before symptoms appear..... if they are hacking and coughing on death's door it's too late.... they've already infected anyone around them when they first caught it.  Secondly the two people had already been isolated from the group, and they would have been dead in a few hours anyway, even if it did spread while they were showing symptoms the likelihood of it spreading further was slim. 

Long story short, she made a bad call.  Now burning the bodies was smart, but murdering the people instead of giving them a fighting chance was extremely dumb.  Yeah it had an unbelievably slim chance of reducing the risk of infection, but think of all the other problems it caused.  That's some Shane logic she had going on. 

Then she gets those poor hippies killed.  It was obvious that they were worthless in a fight, but she saw them as expendable.  She's been acting weird ever since the season started, and if that's the path they are taking an otherwise interesting character, I'm glad they are removing her early.  The change in personality doesn't make any sense either.  The only thing bad that's happened to her recently was when she got trapped in the prison but that was EARLY last season.  She should have shown symptoms of a heel turn earlier on.

What's with this weird alcoholic angle they've shoe-horned in btw?  First off, we've seen this guy in two episodes, so we have no vested interest in him.  Secondly Daryl has known him only slightly longer so why does he care so much?  Lastly I think considering the world they live in being a drunk  would be the norm, not the exception. 

I mean I get what they are TRYING to pull off.  Both Daryl and Merle had substance abuse problems, it's established backstory.  The problem is it's backstory we never saw, so as viewers we can't relate.  I mean unless they do a flashback episode with Daryl getting someone killed due to his addiction to pills/meth/whatever, there isn't any emotional payoff.  Even then it's a played out cliché that they should avoid. 

The thing that has me interested right now is Hershel.  He's getting far too much screen time, so something bad is going to happen.  I don't think they are going to kill him off, but it could go either way honestly.  What has me worried is even though they have sick people that could die any minute all in one place they are STILL not locking this people in individual cells.  That's just sheer idiocy. 

[shponglefan]

Again, shponglefan, that just isn't the case.  The governor on the show was blatantly evil to the point of where he was creepy to listen to.  There wasn't an ounce of charisma or leadership ability in the guy, it's just due to poor writing, everyone around him acted like he had those qualities.

We'll  have to just agree to disagree on that point.

[jdbailey1206]

Again, shponglefan, that just isn't the case.  The governor on the show was blatantly evil to the point of where he was creepy to listen to.  There wasn't an ounce of charisma or leadership ability in the guy, it's just due to poor writing, everyone around him acted like he had those qualities.

We'll  have to just agree to disagree on that point.

It's hard to portray someone that isn't the main focus of the show in just one season.  The writers created the town to have such a blind following so when we see the darker side of the governor then we as the audience will start to question why the town hasn't figured this guy out.  Thus making him more of an antagonist.

It wasn't a poor job on the writers end.  It just wasn't needed.  You didn't need to show how charismatic the governor was.  You just needed to show how sinister he was and what a threat he was to the prison.    This, of course, was done through keeping his daughter alive, the heads in the tanks, the kidnapping of Maggie and Glen and at the end where Daryl had to kill Merle. 

[DaOld Man]

The banishing of Carol hit me like a freight train, was not seeing that coming.
It will be interesting to see how Darrel handles this. I figure he will take off to find her.
I figured tyreese would attack carol when he found out and someone would have to kill him, I agree that he is probably on the extinction list anyway.

Now, I am wondering when they are going to show the governor again. And who was feeding the rats to the zombies?

Not trying to change the subject, but has anyone watched the webisodes on the net? (Check out amc.com, I think.)
I came across them while surfing, I did not know they were on there.
They are some shorts, and the ones I watched seemed to be prequels of other people right after the turn.
Check them out when you have a few minutes to kill. One explains the chained hospital room with the zombies inside, when rick woke up (first season, episode)

[Howard_Casto]

I doubt we'll see the Governor this season.  I think he serves the plot better as this intangible threat that is always in the back of everyone's minds.  I think when they finally do catch up with him, he'll be dead or as good as dead.

The Eugene arc is up next, but honestly I don't know how they could pull that off given their side-trip to the CDC in the first season.

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the little girl is feeding the zombies... she's off her gourd.  I get what she's saying, the zombies aren't necessarily evil and they aren't necessarily completely devoid of humanity.  On the other hand zombies are a lot like bears... I respect bears, I think bears have the right to live, but if it's me or the bear, I'm killing the bear and I was taught at a very young age not to feed bears!  The reason I say it's her is because no one on the inside, save a Governor spy (boy that would be lame), would have any motive to endanger their own home.  Only a crazy person would do it. 

jdbailey1206:

I completely agree that it wasn't needed, so long as you admit that he didn't have any charisma at all and all the people in the town were morons.  My argument wasn't that he needed to be charismatic, but that he needed to be believable as a leader that a town of people would blindly follow... quite frankly he wasn't. 

The very definition of bad writing is when you just suddenly declare that someone has traits and then never show any of those traits through the progression of the story. 

The comics did a far better job of this.  He was evil, almost comically so (pun intended).  On the other hand Woodbury was run by him and a gang of thugs and all the "normal" townsfolk followed him because they had to.  It was do what he said or die.  Considering the limited time frame it would have made far more sense to approach the arc that way, but they decided to get all artsy-fartsy and it fell flat. 

[ark_ader]

I doubt we'll see the Governor this season.  I think he serves the plot better as this intangible threat that is always in the back of everyone's minds.  I think when they finally do catch up with him, he'll be dead or as good as dead.

You will see him appear later on in the series.


I like the show, and it can be a bit depressing now and then, but there is no addressing the removal of the herds, considering how many there are.  I find myself thinking of ways to dispatch them, but there must be some sort of government still working in the USA with this in mind.  I will have to start reading the comics. 

[Howard_Casto]

Actually no.  Spoilers I guess but even though the comics have been going for 10 years there has never been any sign of a remaining government. 

This sort of thing in both the comics and the show is what takes me out of it.  I can buy that there are zombies, I can buy that they are such a problem that they remove most of the creature comforts of civilization, but I find it hard to believe that a nation with such a big military and access to so many guns wouldn't have at least taken a dent out of the problem by now. 

[jdbailey1206]

jdbailey1206:

I completely agree that it wasn't needed, so long as you admit that he didn't have any charisma at all and all the people in the town were morons.  My argument wasn't that he needed to be charismatic, but that he needed to be believable as a leader that a town of people would blindly follow... quite frankly he wasn't. 

He definitely wasn't charismatic.  But like I said it is easier to show how charismatic he is when you have the time to show it like they do in the comics.  That is hard to do when you have the limited space of a season and not much time to work with.  That's why they couldn't show a dramatic rise of the Governor.  We'd still be in that story line in season six.  Its easier to show the blind faith of people following one idiot.  We see that everyday in real life when people have no idea what to do so they blindly follow someone who they think has the right ideas.  The connotation would be easier for us as an audience just to assume the people find the Governor to be a charismatic person.  Waco, Jamestown....

There is no form of stable government in the world of the Walking Dead.  But I believe it is intentional.  If you watch any of the shows on History, Discovery, etc. you see that a 'stable' government would always be working behind the scenes when a major disaster struck.  Always hiding in their bunker, safe house, etc.  (Sorry for sounding like I wear a tin foil hat during this part.... ) but any government, like it or not, will save those who they deem the most important.  The shot callers.  Not because they are selfish but they do it for the greater good.  We elect these officials to do a job and that is to run the country.  They play it safe by hiding behind the scenes and keep themselves safe to solve our problems.  The only fault with this logic is that since they are working for the greater good we as individuals get caught in the crossfire.  Now I'm not saying this is what will happen in the books or the show but in the end this, in reality, is how it will be.  A few will survive and many will perish for the common good of the future of humanity. 

Take a look at this wiki.  Also this is what we should be doing globally.  In the end will I be agitated if I have to scrape and fight through an apocalypse?  Yes.  But knowing that someone is out there for the greater good of humanity will stem my anger.  Do I find it funny that the people that are elected to protect us usually end up getting us in the danger we are trying to prevent?  Yes.  But the past has shown us that they also are intelligent enough to prevent most of the turmoil.  (Cold War etc.)  This leaves us to portray what could happen in the entertainment venues and stuck in fiction leaving us to continue on with our boring lives and that's fine with me.   

[DaOld Man]

He's back!!

[opt2not]

Thank gawd, I was thinking "is the whole season going to be a SARS attack or are we going to see some Governor action?".

[jdbailey1206]

Sorry folks.  Host site took down "their gif".  Greedy ---daisies---. 

[CoryBee]

---smurfing--- pirate is back!

[Rick]

Be honest, now. What you really meant was:

"When are we going to see some Rick on Governor action?"

Hmm. That quip may not have worked out to my advantage ...

[jdbailey1206]

Be honest, now. What you really meant was:

"When are we going to see some Rick on Governor action?"

Hmm. That quip may not have worked out to my advantage ...

Gah Damn freaky fan fiction.   

[ark_ader]

That last episode must have been cheap to make.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah expect a lot of talking... they probably can't afford to do anything much for the next few episodes.  It was totally worth it though.

Also notice where the Doctor told Hershel to make sure people kept their cell doors shut and he was promptly ignored, and it got a bunch of the people killed?  Maybe they should rename the show to "The Walking Brain-Dead"

[DaOld Man]

Yeah I have to agree Howard. You would think keeping doors shut would be a very basic routine.
I was wondering why they didn't keep the doors shut before harry potter turned. I would think a nightly lockdown would be what everyone would want.
I mean, the doors are bars so ventilation is not going to be blocked. And anyone can have a heart attack in their sleep then you have a walking dead among us.
After the harry potter rampage, a sane person would make sure the door was shut and probably locked before going to sleep. The point should have been driven home.
I really hope they either wise up or go back to the raw action to deflect the attention away from the stupid things these supposedly smart people keep doing.

[jdbailey1206]

Yeah expect a lot of talking... they probably can't afford to do anything much for the next few episodes.  It was totally worth it though.

Also notice where the Doctor told Hershel to make sure people kept their cell doors shut and he was promptly ignored, and it got a bunch of the people killed?  Maybe they should rename the show to "The Walking Brain-Dead"

It would definitley be a lot less entertaing if everyone was smart and did what was correct.  I can see it now..."This week on the Walking Dead, people lock their cell doors to keep the walkers away and Carl stays in one place.  This exciting episode will be followed by 55 minutes of commercials.  On a side note, Talking Dead is now cancelled."